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thebajarunner
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Salute to all my fellow veterans
We made it back
Some of us not all in one piece, but we still served and survived
A big thanks to all who sacrificed those precious years of our youth to defend this country.
Anchors Aweiigh
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pacificobob
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Few things offend me.more than being "thanked for my service" allowing myself to be drafted is my greatest regret. Viet nam was horrible. I wish i
had been brave enough to tell the draft board to go f themselves.
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AKgringo
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I also was drafted in January of 1967, and have no regrets! I was a bright young man spinning my wheels in a community college, so it was a good time
for exposure to a world view that you can find nowhere else.
I admit that I never experienced the horrors of the Viet Nam war, but service in a DMZ police battalion in Korea was still a high risk assignment
during the reign of Kim Il Sung.
When I returned home after three years and re-united with friends and family around my age, it was different being the adult in the room!
A tip of the hat to my fellow veterans! 
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Lee
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Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  | | Few things offend me.more than being "thanked for my service" allowing myself to be drafted is my greatest regret. Viet nam was horrible. I wish i
had been brave enough to tell the draft board to go f themselves. |
Easy on yourself, man. Hindsight and all that BS.
You didn't have to go. I have read, and talked to a man who went to Canada, after being drafted. The opinions were they should have gone. That
might be a generalization not widely held.
Picked up body parts of my fire team after a direct mortar hit. Screwed up my head for a long time. I was 18. Then it just got worse the second
time around.
Not glad I went but I did buy into the tradition of Duty, Honor, County.
You could have ran, Bob. You made a choice to serve even though you didn't want to. To me, that's Honor.
Nobody liked being over there, esp. if you were a Marine in I Corps. The whole place was a war zone, though.
I don't thank anyone for service. I do honor them, though. Whatever war zone you were in.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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surabi
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Vietnam had nothing to do with "defending this country". Nor do most of the wars in which the US participates. This is not necessarily bad- obviously
Hitler had to be stopped.
" I have read, and talked to a man who went to Canada, after being drafted. The opinions were they should have gone. That might be a generalization
not widely held."
I can assure you it is not. You talked to "a man". Tons of my Canadian friends were Vietnam draft dodgers and not one of them feels they "should have
gone." In fact, I became a Canadian because I met and married a US draft dodger overseas and he couldn't go back to the US, so we went to Canada.
One close friend's entire family, who had the means to do so, picked up and moved to Canada when the draft began. The parents said, "No way are we
letting our 2 sons get sent to die in Vietnam." His parents moved back to the States eventually, but he and his brother have lived in Canada ever
since. Although the US declared amnesty for the Vietnam draft dodgers, plenty of American young men had zero desire to go back.
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AKgringo
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Lee, I almost wound up in the Marine corps! I was inducted at the Oakland Army Terminal along with a couple of hundred other young men.
The Marines were looking for "A few good men" at that time, so the first fifty in line were drafted into the Corps. We of course were lined up
alphabetically, and one of my friends wound up in that group. At least it was for only two years instead of the four that enlisted Marines served!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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thebajarunner
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Yes, I was honored to serve my country
Sorry for those who feel otherwise
I have been to Canada numerous times
If that is your idea of Nirvana, than please don't let us hold you back.
I went in a rather nervous 18 year old who had totally screwed up a year and half of college
Came out a mature 21 year old who went back, got on the high honors roll, worked nights stocking shelves at Safeway, paid all my college costs (No VA
benefits/ no college loans I am trying to weasel out of)
Later on got colon cancer (99.9% certain it came from my ship being closely involved in the nuclear testing at Bikini and Eniwitok) Total hearing
loss thanks to 3 years of loading 38 pound projectiles into the 5" gun with no hearing protection, and a few other dings.
This country certainly is not perfect. But, I have visited 85 countries and still looking for one that comes close to what we have and enjoy.
Go on up to Canada, I will send you a map and best wishes.
A proud Navy vet who paid his dues and some of yours as well
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surabi
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Pointing out that many draft dodgers went to, and remained in Canada has nothing to do with it being "your idea of Nirvana".
And while it's fine that you consider your country to be the best place on earth to live, FYI, among countries voted the best places to live, with the
highest quality of life and the highest "happiness" scores, the US doesn't even make the top 10. Canada is at #2 or #3, depending on which studies you
look at.
Anyone who declares the US to be "the greatest country on earth", as if that were some inarguable fact, has to willfully ignore the large percentage
of the population that lives in poverty, without access to decent medical care, education or job opportunities. The US also has the highest infant and
maternal death rates of any high-income country. And 54% of US adults have a literacy level of sixth grade or lower and 22% are functionally
illiterate.
And BTW, I wasn't dissing vets, not at all. While I am a pacifist and wish humans could solve their problems without killing each other, I am also
pragmatic and realize a military force is necessary. And while it's great that the military provided you with needed maturity, it just seems insane to
me to send 18 year olds, the future of a country, off to be cannon fodder.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | Pointing out that many draft dodgers went to, and remained in Canada has nothing to do with it being "your idea of Nirvana".
And while it's fine that you consider your country to be the best place on earth to live, FYI, among countries voted the best places to live, with the
highest quality of life and the highest "happiness" scores, the US doesn't even make the top 10. Canada is at #2 or #3, depending on which studies you
look at.
Anyone who declares the US to be "the greatest country on earth", as if that were some inarguable fact, has to willfully ignore the large percentage
of the population that lives in poverty, without access to decent medical care, education or job opportunities. The US also has the highest infant and
maternal death rates of any high-income country. And 54% of US adults have a literacy level of sixth grade or lower and 22% are functionally
illiterate.
And BTW, I wasn't dissing vets, not at all. While I am a pacifist and wish humans could solve their problems without killing each other, I am also
pragmatic and realize a military force is necessary. And while it's great that the military provided you with needed maturity, it just seems insane to
me to send 18 year olds, the future of a country, off to be cannon fodder.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by surabi] |
Surabi,
Criticizing vets or the military on verterans day always goes over like a lead balloon. Just saying.
Though canada is a pretty nice place, and is a lot better than many places in the usa!
On this armistice day, i am remembering several military veterans, including my union soldier ancestor who died in libby prison due to
neglect-mistreatment by confederate jailers that caused so many to perish of preventable diseases.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Lee
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Don't think much of draft dodgers. Too many ways to get out of the draft other than running.
Carter was wrong giving immunity to cowards. Canada granting immunity to cowards says it all.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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surabi
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Considering men who don't want to go to war, who don't want to kill anyone, or die in a war halfway across the world that has nothing to do with them,
or anything they believe in, as "cowards" is based in patriarcal notions of masculinity and what it means to be a "real man". In fact, there would be
far less men enlisting if that faulty societal notion didn't exist. The world could do with less of that. There are many ways to be brave and be a
hero that don't involve donning a uniform, taking orders and becoming an expendable killing machine.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | Don't think much of draft dodgers. Too many ways to get out of the draft other than running.
Carter was wrong giving immunity to cowards. Canada granting immunity to cowards says it all. |
The draft was the way that establishment/ruling class forced kids to fight their wars. The draft was wrong. There is nothing dishonorable from
fleeing from forced military service, being forced to be canon fodder for the ruling class/industrialists/establishment.
There is nothing cowardly about refusing forced service as a pawn.
The coawardly act is the rich/powerful classes forcing the poorer classes to fight their wars.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Don Pisto
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well I gotta go with bajarunner with a salute is in order or at least a "SALUD" 
for us Vets on our day. thank us don't thank us doesn't matter to me, again I hope all you eligible have signed on with the PACT ACT. 
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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AKgringo
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I have told this story before, probably on a previous BajaNomad veterans day thread, but a friend who lived in the same neighborhood as me for years
was drafted about the same time I was.
He was a conscientious objector who refused to take up arms against even an enemy. He served as a combat medic in Viet Nam and decided to continue
being a first responder after he served his military obligation.
Another long time friend served as a Navy Seal. When I talked with either of them years later, neither ever bragged about their service in combat.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
The draft was the way that establishment/ruling class forced kids to fight their wars. The draft was wrong. There is nothing dishonorable from
fleeing from forced military service, being forced to be canon fodder for the ruling class/industrialists/establishment.
There is nothing cowardly about refusing forced service as a pawn.
The coawardly act is the rich/powerful classes forcing the poorer classes to fight their wars.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by mtgoat666] |
Exactly. Know why the US declared amnesty for the Vietnam draft dodgers? Because the draft dodgers who fled were the educated, middle class boys who
had the means to pick up and put down stakes elsewhere and the US wanted them back. They were qualified for higher paying jobs than the poor boys, and
therefore pay more taxes. They'd already lost over 58,000 potential work force and taxpayers in the war, and thousands more came back too effed up
physically or mentally to be employable. The estimate of those who fled the draft is 60,000-100,000.
[Edited on 11-12-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 11-12-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 11-12-2023 by surabi]
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | Don't think much of draft dodgers. Too many ways to get out of the draft other than running.
Carter was wrong giving immunity to cowards. Canada granting immunity to cowards says it all. |
The draft was the way that establishment/ruling class forced kids to fight their wars. The draft was wrong. There is nothing dishonorable from
fleeing from forced military service, being forced to be canon fodder for the ruling class/industrialists/establishment.
There is nothing cowardly about refusing forced service as a pawn.
The coawardly act is the rich/powerful classes forcing the poorer classes to fight their wars.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by mtgoat666] |
X2 nothing was gained by US involvement in Viet Nam that I'm aware of.
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pauldavidmena
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My two younger sons served in the Marines and both feel awkward when someone thanks them for their service. My middle son served for 8 years, and
started out in the Communications Corps in Iraq and Afghanistan because it was considered safer than infantry. Early on, when he climbed a tower to
adjust a satellite dish, he came under sniper fire. Rather than being permitted to return fire, he was ordered to relay the coordinates of the
oncoming assault. A minute later, there was a loud blast, and no more sniper fire. After that incident, he transferred to infantry, which was largely
uneventful. He made it back alive, but at 34, he hardly sleeps on account of the nightmares.
My younger son remained stateside and never entered combat. At 32 he's still trying to figure out what to do with his life. Both coyly say "thank you"
when they're thanked for their service.
[Edited on 11-12-2023 by pauldavidmena]
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | Don't think much of draft dodgers. Too many ways to get out of the draft other than running.
Carter was wrong giving immunity to cowards. Canada granting immunity to cowards says it all. |
The draft was the way that establishment/ruling class forced kids to fight their wars. The draft was wrong. There is nothing dishonorable from
fleeing from forced military service, being forced to be canon fodder for the ruling class/industrialists/establishment.
There is nothing cowardly about refusing forced service as a pawn.
The coawardly act is the rich/powerful classes forcing the poorer classes to fight their wars.
[Edited on 11-11-2023 by mtgoat666] |
X2 nothing was gained by US involvement in Viet Nam that I'm aware of. |
Agreed. The SE Conflict was based on lies and political shenanigans. For the troops on the ground though, it was believing that there was a
Domino Effect playing out and as countries fell to communism, that effect would travel East to the US.
I believe, strongly, in a national military draft for all boys and girls 18 y.o. and over. Serve 2 years. Period.
Options would be Peace Corps, Vista, missionary work, whatever, but service to the Country is mandatory. Similar to Israel, or folks in Utah.
Mohammad Ali was prepared to go to jail over his beliefs. Draftees could op for CO status (think Hacksaw Ridge).
Nobody rides free. There's a price living in the US. Looking for a free ride move to Canada. They don't care.
Stand and fight for beliefs at home or run like cowards and leave the US. Don't come back.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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pacificobob
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The custom and practice of thanking vets seems to have evolved after returning Viet Nam vets were berated for participating in a highly unpopular war.
A sort of social guilt behavior.
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AKgringo
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Passing through SFO on my return from Korea, an attractive hippy chick approached me and asked how many babies I killed.
Three years in the Army changed things for me, but the changes in the culture at home during those three years was difficult to adjust to.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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