BajaNomad

Happy surf fisherman

Russ - 4-7-2008 at 05:42 PM

Here's what my neighbor caught today. He's a happy man

Happy Fisherman w:Corvina.jpg - 47kB

Russ - 4-7-2008 at 05:44 PM

Not happy enough? How about now?

Happy Fisherman 1.jpg - 48kB

shari - 4-7-2008 at 06:38 PM

So nice to see a truly happy amigo! Lovely fish indeed...Juan wants to come and catch one in May...will you be around?

Russ - 4-7-2008 at 07:03 PM

Come on over! May should be good if the damn seiners don't come in close and the pongeros lighten up with their nets along the shore. I have plenty of fishing gear. Here's one of my favorite spots.

[Edited on 4-8-2008 by Russ]

San Marcos Tierra Rocks.jpg - 47kB

Iflyfish - 4-7-2008 at 08:18 PM

Great looking fish! What is it?

Iflyfish

Sharksbaja - 4-7-2008 at 09:38 PM

That would be a dorsal-clipped Baja salmon.:lol:

Frank - 4-7-2008 at 10:55 PM

corVina.

Sharksbaja - 4-7-2008 at 11:01 PM

Aha, you say corvina, they say corbina. Not the same.

Iflyfish - 4-7-2008 at 11:30 PM

Could be a song: You say corvina and I say corbina...tomato/tomatoe etc.

It does indeed look like a salmon on fin enhancers.....born too close to a nuclear plant?

Bet it is a good fighter. What color is the flesh? How does it eat, er, eh, I mean how does it taste to you?

Iflyfish

Russ - 4-8-2008 at 04:27 AM

Frank is right Orange mouth CorVina. Taste is really good. Maybe just below a Pargo on my tasters. But then yellowtail is my favorite so go from there. here's one I caught on 6# awhile ago.

Corvina.jpg - 48kB

Capt. George - 4-8-2008 at 04:59 AM

cousin to the east coast sea trout and, more northerly, the weakfish.

Russ - 4-8-2008 at 05:14 AM

Yep, These were put in the Salton Sea and are reported to be doing very well there.

Gadget - 4-8-2008 at 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Aha, you say corvina, they say corbina. Not the same.


"V" pronounced like "B" in spanish. Hence we think they are saying "corBina".
No?

Taco de Baja - 4-8-2008 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gadget
Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Aha, you say corvina, they say corbina. Not the same.


"V" pronounced like "B" in spanish. Hence we think they are saying "corBina".
No?


Although both look very similar and are both in the Croaker Family, they are different fish:

CorBinas live on the Pacific and 'only' get up to ~28"
CorVinas live in the Sea of Cortez (and Salton Sea) and get up to ~48"

tripledigitken - 4-8-2008 at 01:13 PM

Russ,

Very nice fish. Caught in front of your neighbor's house?

Very cool!

Ken

Roberto - 4-8-2008 at 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
CorBinas live on the Pacific and 'only' get up to ~28"
CorVinas live in the Sea of Cortez (and Salton Sea) and get up to ~48"


And then you have the cUrvina, aka White Seabass, also a croaker.

DENNIS - 4-8-2008 at 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
But then yellowtail is my favorite so go from there.


Where's to go but up? Jeezo, Russ, you can't be serious. Yellow Tail is like eating a Kapok life vest compared to an edible fish such as Halibut.

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2008 at 03:12 PM

I saw white sea bass sold in the markets in peru. They were labeled corvina. I think that name is used throughout latin america. It's confusing to gringos.

Corvina (orangemouth) aren't really doing very well in Salton Sea due to high salinity levels. In fact nothing is.

Roberto - 4-8-2008 at 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Corvina (orangemouth) aren't really doing very well in Salton Sea due to high salinity levels. In fact nothing is.


Have you ever fished the Salton Sea? I haven't, and am really thinking of going. Just a few years ago (4-6) some people I know went and had an amazing day catching HUGE croaker. I have read that the salinity levels are getting close to the point where the fish will stop reproducing, and it won't take long, due also to the elimination of a significant amount of agricultural runoff replenishing the fresh water that evaporates, to get to the point where fish won't be able to survive at all. The State of California has been studying :rolleyes: a plan to "Save the Sea"

Do you have any experience with it, I would love to hear about it if you do.

[Edited on 4-8-2008 by Roberto]

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2008 at 03:50 PM

Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything as I'm not a regular. My visit and subsequent articles in San Diego papers didn't sound promising.

Pescador - 4-9-2008 at 01:00 PM

Methinks that is not an orange mouth Corvina. first of all they are almost never found on the Sea of Cortez side and secondly, the tail fin is pointed in the center on an Orange mouth. This tail is definately longer on the upper and lower sections whereas the Orangemouth is shorter and noticeably pointed in the center. I would suggest that this is a White sea bass. You can verify by looking at both fish on www. mexfish.com and go the fish identification photos.

Taco de Baja - 4-9-2008 at 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador
Methinks that is not an orange mouth Corvina. first of all they are almost never found on the Sea of Cortez side and secondly, the tail fin is pointed in the center on an Orange mouth. This tail is definately longer on the upper and lower sections whereas the Orangemouth is shorter and noticeably pointed in the center. I would suggest that this is a White sea bass. You can verify by looking at both fish on www. mexfish.com and go the fish identification photos.


I thought corVinas were thick in the Sea of Cortez.....

An easy way to ID WSB is that they have a ridge running the length of their bellys that other members of the croaker family do not have. CorBinas, have the chin barbel.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/mspcont3.asp

Salton Sea article

Skipjack Joe - 4-9-2008 at 04:41 PM

I found this interesting. The original studies on introducing fish into the Sea. How the mindset has changed. Something like 50 species, including salmon and bonefish. With the exception of 3 or 4 all failed. Not only that they introduced their food, e.g. polychaete worms, snails, crustaceans. Heck, they created an ecosystem from scratch.

http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=kt5f59n7qs&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text

I agree with you Jim, it doesn't look an orangemouth corvina. These corvina species have a lot of similarities at times. I've caught corvina with yellow mouths right in SLC that I think were shortfins like the others.

Here's a distribution of corvina species all with the same genus. Maybe the speciation didn't occur that long ago.

Cynoscion_map1.gif - 11kB

pascuale - 4-9-2008 at 05:26 PM

White seabass, but Corvina are all over the northern sea of cortez. Especially the backbay at Gonzaga:lol:

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-report...

baitcast - 4-9-2008 at 06:43 PM

Pescador For years and years,we caught what I thought were corvina from Pueriticos to BOLA,sometimes 20 or 30 at a time and all had orange mouths and fangs now your telling me those were WSB:rolleyes:

Saw some that were 12# 15#,the shortfin record is around 10#.

WSB taken on poppers in 4' of water!! come on.
Rob
Still like your stuff

Shortfin

baitcast - 4-9-2008 at 07:16 PM

Check out this corvina taken a few days ago,Mission Bay SD,record size I,m thinkin........Shortfin that is:biggrin:

v

On a Spook

[Edited on 4-10-2008 by baitcast]

baitcast - 4-9-2008 at 07:52 PM

The gill netters and seiners take corvina by the hunderds from San Felipe south to who knows where!
Rob

Pescador - 4-9-2008 at 07:58 PM

Corvina yes, but not orange mouthed Corvina. I catch a lot of corvina in this area from Punta Chivato to Santa Rosalia, but none of them are Orangemouthed Corvina. The corvina we catch locally have two fangs or sharp teeth and I can not tell from this picture whether or not this fish has those two fangs. I am only going on the coloring. The only thing I am sure of is that the pictured fish is definately not an orangemouthed corvina.
On the Pacific side by La Bocana and down south to Bahia Magdelena I have caught numerous orangies.

baitcast - 4-9-2008 at 08:45 PM

What your saying then is that the corvina in the north end are shortfin,how can you account for the size they attain? the record for shortfin is around 10#but these norte guys get much larger?
Rob

Skipjack Joe - 4-9-2008 at 10:13 PM

The Salton Sea report says that the orangemouth in the Sea were introduced from fish caught in San Felipe in the 50's.

The Baja Catch says that the only orangemouth in baja are found in the northern cortez. None on the pacific side.

Pescador - 4-10-2008 at 07:55 AM

Since I am not a fish scientist, I do not know if this is a Shortfin Corvina or not. If so, it could well be a very large version of that fish. The markings look very much like a Shortfin. The fish was caught around the Punta Chivato area which is just south of the picture below which came from Jean Mori from San Lucas Cove. I just know that it is definately not an Orangemouth.

[Edited on 4-10-2008 by Pescador]

shtcorvmori.jpg - 26kB

David K - 4-10-2008 at 08:06 AM

Corbinas are found in the gulf and Pacific... these are the fish (relted to croakers) with the mouth that points down for bottom feeding and the barb on the lower lip/ chin... One of the best eating fish IMO.

Catch on sandy bottoms very near shore... in the breakers on the Pacific... use mussel, clam, cut bait (grunion), or sand crabs.

Corvinas are also found in both the gulf and Pacific, but are best known around San Felipe and were the prime species selected for introduction into the Salton Sea... which is a stinky dead sea now!

The corvina has a mouth in front, bites lures... surface fishing... the name sounds the same in Spanish as corbina, but is a totally different fish... but also good eating.

Here's a corbina up close:



[Edited on 4-10-2008 by David K]

ccorbheadmitch.jpg - 42kB

David K - 4-10-2008 at 08:15 AM

The previous photo was from Gene Kira's site mexfish.com fish ID page.

Here is one of my mom with a double hook up of corbinas in 1967 at the sandy bay south of San Felipe now called Bahia Santa Maria:

corbinas.jpg - 43kB

baitcast - 4-10-2008 at 09:02 AM

Thank you David for straighting us out,but what does a corbina have to do with shortfin and orangemouth corvina:rolleyes:
Rob

Skipjack Joe - 4-10-2008 at 10:56 AM

That's a definite shortfin in the picture to me, pescador. I've caught the same fish in the same place with the same boat by the looks of it.

Anyway, even though it's a shortfin it has some orange in the mouth area and a bit on the fins. So I don't think coloration is very dependable. The fish doesn't seem to have that distinguishable feature in the tail fin.

I suspect that if either one of us had caught more (or any in my case) orangemouths we wouldn't have trouble telling which is which. There's nothing like personal experience.

Found this image of guys holding up orangemouths and although it's far away you can see the small protrusions of the tailfin in each fish. Otherwise the color really doesn't look much different than your fish. This picture was taken a Punta Final (bordering Gonzaga on the south) in 2004.

P.S. in Baja Catch he states the fish is only in the north end of cortez but on his website he says it's throughout the cortez. Go figure.

magee2.jpg - 36kB

OK

baitcast - 4-10-2008 at 11:57 AM

I love them both to catch and eat,I will also mention again the must fun to catch these guys is with topwater in the morn,evening and at night,poppers,jerkbaits and spooks.

Pescador I,ve been a fan of yours for several years now,since you gave me alot of info on SLC a few years back,this subject just happens to be about one of my favorite fish,no harm intended;D

No coments on that SD,Mission Bay fish? anybody know how long they have been there?

I noticed last year they were catching a few,but this year they are knocking them dead,had no idea they were this far north!
Rob

David K - 4-10-2008 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by baitcast
Thank you David for straighting us out,but what does a corbina have to do with shortfin and orangemouth corvina:rolleyes:
Rob


Well, I read the whole thread... as you would need to do to understand why I added photos and details on the California Corbina (note Sharksbaja and Taco de Baja's posts, above).

The corbina does indeed live in the Gulf of California and not just the Pacific and it is related to the croaker and is good eating, too. The corvina is a totally different fish, but also is found in both the gulf and Pacific.
======================================================

FROM http://mexfish.com :

California Corbina, California King Croaker, California Whiting
Lambe Berrugato
(Menticirrhus undulatus)

The California Corbina is characterized by its elongated, slightly compressed body that is gray with incandescent reflections. The California Corbina has a long head, a small mouth with an identifying single barbell, a characteristic wavy diagonal line on its sides, and large scales.

The California Corbina has only one, weak anal spine, and its pectoral fins are black. The other fins vary in color from pale to dark. The caudal fin is S-shaped. The California Corbina might be confused with a series of other croakers, including the Highfin King Croaker, the King Croaker, the Paita King Croaker, and the Panama King Croaker, all of which are of the Genus Menticirrhus and found in Mexican waters, and the Yellowfin Croaker, Umbrina roncador.

However, only the Yellowfin Croaker (concave caudal fin, yellow fins, and oblique brown lines on its sides) also has a barbell.


The California Corbina is a member of the Sciaenidae or Croaker and Drum Family that are accessible and can be caught out of the surf. In Mexican waters, the California Corbina is found all along the Pacific side of the Baja California peninsula, and throughout the Sea of Cortez.

==========================================================

How here are some of the corvinas of Mexico:


Shortfin Corvina, Shortfin Weakfish
Corvinata Aletacorta, Corvina de Aleta Corta
(Cynoscion parvipinnis)

In Mexican waters, the Shortfin Covina is found along the Pacific side of the Baja California Sur peninsula and throughout the Gulf of California. However, it is absent south of Mazatlan along the mainland coast. The Shortfin Corvina is found in the first 150 feet of the water column, normally in shallow coastal waters over sandy or mud bottoms. The Shortfin Covina is reported to reach 24 inches in length. This species is caught primarily on cut bait (clams, squid, mullet, etc.) with small hooks and bottom rigs. It is viewed by locals to be excellent table fare.

Note: The Shortfin Corvina was unsuccessfully transplanted into the Salton Sea in 1952.

====================================================

Orangemouth Corvina, Orangemouth Weakfish
Corvinata Totoaba
(Cynoscion xanthulus)

In Mexican waters the Orangemouth Corvina is found north of Acapulco along the coast of the mainland and throughout the Sea of Cortez. Note: The Orangemouth Corvina was successfully introduced into the Salton Sea in the early 1950’s where it has thrived.

======================================================

Gulf Weakfish
Corvina del Golfo
(Cynoscion othonopterum)

Gulf Weakfish is only found within the confines of the Sea of Cortez, being absent from all other Mexican waters. The Gulf Weakfish is generally found in the first 100 feet of the water column and is reported to reach just over two feet in length. It is viewed by locals as excellent table fare.


The Gulf Weakfish is easily confused with the White Weakfish or White Seabass, Atractoscion nobilis (ridge along its belly; inner base of pectoral fins with a black blotch). The Gulf Weakfish is also quite similar in appearance to a series of other corvinas and weakfish, including the Orangemouth Weakfish, Cynoscion xanthulum, the Shortfin Weakfish, Cynoscion parvipinnis, the Totoaba, Totoaba macdonaldi, the Yellowmouth Weakfish, Cynoscion squamipinnis and the Yellowtail Weakfish, Cynoscion stolzmanni, but each of these fish have straight or pointed caudal fins.

================================================================

MUCH more details at Mexfish.com on this page find all the fish links: http://mexfish.com/fish/fish.htm



[Edited on 4-10-2008 by David K]

Skipjack Joe - 4-10-2008 at 02:59 PM

Nothing about SD, baitcast, but I've done some more research on Salton Sea.

Apparently the sea has fish dieoffs every summer due to high temperatures causing algal blooms that deplete the oxygen level.

Anyway the last one was so severe it seems to have wiped out all of the orangemouth corvina and sargo. The tilapia are bouncing back but nobody has caught the other two species in about a year and a half. Usually the orangemouths make a comeback after the tilapia as they feed on them, but not this time.

The tilapia fishing is reported to be very good right now.

Many of the IGFA orangemouth world records were made in the 80's in the Salton Sea.

baitcast - 4-10-2008 at 03:30 PM

Igor I went into the IGFA to check on corvina records and they want money:fire: is there no other places to check these things.
Rob

David K - 4-10-2008 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Nothing about SD, baitcast, but I've done some more research on Salton Sea.

Apparently the sea has fish dieoffs every summer due to high temperatures causing algal blooms that deplete the oxygen level.

Anyway the last one was so severe it seems to have wiped out all of the orangemouth corvina and sargo. The tilapia are bouncing back but nobody has caught the other two species in about a year and a half. Usually the orangemouths make a comeback after the tilapia as they feed on them, but not this time.

The tilapia fishing is reported to be very good right now.

Many of the IGFA orangemouth world records were made in the 80's in the Salton Sea.


Is any fish caught in the Salton Sea safe to eat (what with the high Selenium levels and other ag chemicals)?

The place we used to go when I was a kid is a ghost town with dead fish remains for a beach instead of sand!

California IGFA records

Skipjack Joe - 4-10-2008 at 04:05 PM

http://captainsnews.com/Default.aspx?tabid=656

The world IGFA record seems to come from Ecuador (found it on a thread in bloodydecks.com).

It appears we're not the only ones confused. The following link is to an image of a corvina caught off Guadalupe Islas that's been labeled as an orangemouth. It's a very good closeup and you can see the orange in it's mouth. The tailfin is not of an orangemouth nor was it caught in waters that contain orangemouth. It also has the two upper fangs pescador mentioned. So I think its a shortfin.

http://www.fishingvideos.com/news/index.php?imagepopup=2006images/20060618-RScharlie%20Ekstrom%20with%20a%20nice%20orange%20mouth%20Corvina%20%20she%2 0caughtSM.jpg&width=510&height=462&imagetext=Charlie+Ekstrom+couldn%27t+be+more+pleased+with+her+orangemouth+corvina+she+got+on+dad%27s+bo at.

baitcast - 4-10-2008 at 07:46 PM

Igor right now I,m trying to find out how the shortfin got as far as SD,I,m thinking a series of El Nino years got them to move that far north,been talking to a couple of others on the same subject,think maybe we got that figured out:lol:
Rob

Halboo - 4-13-2008 at 01:35 PM

I fished the Salton Sea about 8 years ago and had excellent fishing on large Orange Mouth Corvina.
We ate them and they tasted as good as any WSB.
However as stated previously the lake is now almost completely dead, with just a few Tilapia surviving.
It's pretty sad what's happened to that area.

Russ - 4-13-2008 at 03:13 PM

Wow, I didn't mean to cause such a fuss. Next time I'll read more before make such an erroneous ID. The mouth is so orange "I just assumed" .... Sorry!