BajaNomad

airplane info needed....

surfer jim - 5-10-2005 at 08:57 AM

While down at San Carlos a private plane came in on the Solo Sports runway.....went down to check it out....twin engine turbine with 4 blade props....5 windows on the body... pilot said 6 passengers with cargo space in rear...cruise at 250 MPH....and can go to 30,000 feet.....tail wings were very high off the ground....claimed to be a commercial real estate developer from L.A. down to kite surf...what was this and how much could this cost?....sure beats driving......

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 09:19 AM

Sounds like it might be a Cessna Conquest.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P63632D0B

You can get this one for about $1.4 million.

++Ken++

Tucker - 5-10-2005 at 10:15 AM

Wow, that one is 22 years old.................new ones must be out of sight!

surfer jim - 5-10-2005 at 11:49 AM

Not exactly the same...c-ckpit begins at the very front of the plane (no extended nose)...and the tail has the small wings up very high and not down low as in photo..... but does look similar....

engines where 750 HP ...each....could fly from Carlos to Ensenada in 45 minutes and from Ensenada to LA in 45 minutes....

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 12:06 PM

That's a Beechcraft King-Air. I think they are in the same price range as the Conquest.

++Ken++

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 01:24 PM

surfer jim:

I'm not aware of any twin-engine turboprop with a snub nose. All the ones I have seen have a sleek extended nose like the Conquest or King-Air. There is usually a large luggage compartment in the nose. The 250mph speed is pretty typical. By the way, since you sound like you are destined to buy one in the near future you should be aware that the "tail wings" are called "horizontal stabilizers". The moveable control surfaces at the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizers are called "elevators". They control pitch (nose up, nose down). You need to know this stuff before you buy one :D

++Ken++

[Edited on 5-10-2005 by Ken Bondy]

[Edited on 5-10-2005 by Ken Bondy]

backninedan - 5-10-2005 at 02:29 PM

Your right Ken, he may to be a bit of a novice if he asks a dealer for a plane with those high tail thingies.

Mike Supino - 5-10-2005 at 02:40 PM

License, what license? we don't need no stinkin' license!

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 03:13 PM

I say if a man is going to buy a million dollar airplane he damn well should know the right name for those tail thingies.

PabloS - 5-10-2005 at 05:49 PM

I think if a guy is going to buy a million $$ airplane the professional pilot he will hire will surely know the right name for those tail thingies. :lol::lol:

David K - 5-10-2005 at 05:55 PM

Be nice, that is 'Surfer Jim', not 'Capt. Jim'!

At Alfonsina's I saw a push-pull... pretty awesome (twin props, one in front of the body, and one at the back).

Can you post a photo of one of them? Are they good STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) planes for Baja bush runways (landing between the ditches or on roads or beaches)??:biggrin:

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 06:18 PM

David that's probably a Cessna 337 Skymaster:

http://www.acf.clara.net/scale/scale-pics-1/high-wing/cessna...

Great airplane but it never caught on commercially.

We were just funnin' gently with surfer jim, his "tail wings" were just irresistible to a pilot :biggrin:

++Ken++

David K - 5-10-2005 at 06:41 PM

Yah, that's the one... actually, I think there were TWO at Alfie's that trip?!
Thanks Ken...

By the way, about my OLD slides (1960's Baja trips)... I haven't found them yet... but when I do, I will contact you. Gracias!

Hey, can you come down for the Baja Cactus event and come with us to Mision Santa Maria...? Although, you might be a bit 'wide' for that road!

Ken Bondy - 5-10-2005 at 08:39 PM

grover - beautiful shot of the Skymasher. I always liked them, probably a genetic flaw. As long as this is drifting, here's a shot of my beautiful old Baron at Punta San Francisquito:

Drifting slightly starboard.....

Pompano - 5-11-2005 at 05:07 AM

but we are still in Baja....anybody fly this company in the early days? Cortez Air...that was some adventure! I was designated co-pilot (right seat ballast) on one flight from Serinadad to Ontario, Ca. Got a little alarmed and P-O'ed when I found out pilot had whiskey in his coffee!... He wouldn't share!

Rare visitor to Baja......at Posada, Conception Bay....

Pompano - 5-11-2005 at 05:18 AM

An unusual airplane for Baja...this flew in one day many years ago and later I saw it at the Hermosillo airport. Float planes are everywhere where we live in the summer, but very rare in Baja.

[Edited on 5-11-2005 by Pompano]

Wanna Caravan to Gonzaga?

Don Jorge - 5-11-2005 at 06:54 AM

"The old "MixMaster"

Skeet/Loreto - 5-11-2005 at 07:15 AM

Short Story on the 337 MixMaster.

Had a Pilot doing an IFR Desent into Oakland Calif airport, lose the Rear Prop, which made two large Cuts in the Booms when the Prop Departed.
The pilot kept on coming and made a sucessfull landing at Oakland. Good Airplane but you have to be carefull if you need to make a "Hot Start" with the Dead engine being the Rear one to Start.

Opinion: Best Airplane for Baja;;Cessna 180

Skeet/Loreto

surfer jim - 5-11-2005 at 07:52 AM

da plane !!....da plane !!.....GROVER got it....that was the one I saw.....remember seeing "king" somewhere on the side of it......believe King Air 200 from what I have read.....

tried to find what these cost but can't find any prices anywhere....got a guess?......

I like race cars/trucks and thought these "toys" that can cost $100,000+ are for "rich guys".....but it looks like these planes make ANY off-road race car look cheap.....:o

now about those "back wings"....OK ...horizonal stabilizers....I was at work and reading some responses but couldn't reply but was getting a good laugh from it...:lol:

LAKE BUCCANEER

Barry A. - 5-11-2005 at 08:29 AM

I used to fly a LAKE BUCCANEER "land on it's belly" amphibian out of Manteo, Cape Hatteras, in North Carolina and always thought it would be a great plane for the beaches of Baja------------anybody ever see one down there??

It is a pusher, and tough as nails, with the engine on a pylon over the fuselage facing backwards. Funny looking airplane, but fun to fly. I used to ferry folks up and down the east coast from the Cape to Key West, and all points in-between. Landed in the Everglades all the time, too, on the little lakes-----what a kick. Not very fast, but cheap to own.

Skymaster

BajaRob - 5-11-2005 at 08:31 AM

Our friend Rick Bell keeps his " Mixmaster " here @ El Vergel. We flew to Mulege and Loreto with him. Very smooth ride but a gas hog. He even let me drive. He recently re-powered w/ 330 HP turbos and now works out to about 5 MPG. Avgas is expensive @ Loreto. I spent $ 285 to fill it up. It was well worth it for the view of the beautiful coastline and the pig roast was great............Rob
PS> Take offs and landings @ El Vergel are exciting as gravel strip is only 1500 ' long with houses on the departure end and Chelo's Restaurant (w/ tall antenna) @ the approach end. Even with STOL add-ons it's a rush.

[Edited on 5-11-2005 by BajaRob]

surfer jim - 5-11-2005 at 11:48 AM

That's more what I had in mind...:lol:

elgatoloco - 5-11-2005 at 02:08 PM

The videos on that sight above are wild. The B52 model plane (22 litres of JetA1 fuel) and the video named O my god are entertaining. :biggrin:

Bob H - 5-11-2005 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by grover
I know a few million could be a challenge for some of our posters, so in the interests of aviation I have found a more economical alternative:



Luggage capacity looks a little tight but I bet the seat-of-the-pants feeling is off-the-dial...

http://www.mfarchive.modelstuff.co.uk/mf089/airspace.htm


Nice little wing thingy!

ha!!!

capt. mike - 5-12-2005 at 07:31 AM

that was perhaps his finAL picture as a living human bean.....

1500' at El Vergel?? better be a windy cold day if i attempt to get out of there after i get in! Always wanted to drop in there though, but my personal limit on dirt in baja is 1700'

and i don't dice with my minimums!

Arnold Sez...

David K - 5-12-2005 at 08:09 AM

If you can read the text on Senterfitt's Airports of Baja, Arnold measured it just over 2,000 feet... But, that was in 1987.

You will note there is NO town of Ejido Delicias, nor pavement on the then nearly new graded road, when this photo was taken.

Mike, check it in Galen's book (1,906') too... Fly in over Memorial Day, and I will pick you up... eat at Chela's at the end of the runway, drive out to Shell Island, 6 miles north.




[Edited on 5-12-2005 by David K]

Paved road truncated the runway, perhaps

Barry A. - 5-12-2005 at 08:29 AM

David, if the new paved road is in the same location as the graded gravel road in the photo, perhaps it truncated the runway leaving it as the now reported 1500'. Most of the "bush" type aircraft used in Baja can handle 1500' with a fair headwind to help them out, but still that is pretty hairy, and certainly the mins. that any reasonable pilot would tackle. Personally, I am with Capt. Mike-----1700' min.. and I would "pucker" at that.

Hey Mike!

Skeet/Loreto - 5-12-2005 at 08:35 AM

If you would finally "Get Smart" and get you a Cessna 180 you could sure reduce your Limits and have a Hellva Airplane!

Skeet/Loreto

now now....skeeter, i will give up my

capt. mike - 5-12-2005 at 03:29 PM

comanche when they pull my dead cold fingers from around the yoke......and that's no yoke, pardner....it's a wheel!

the 180 is great, but i like to get places FAST amigo. i take my bird into la purisima a lot, 1700' also to the closest strip now to scorp pee on bay, which is cadeje, also short at 1900'

memorial weekend we'll be at the ol' casa in mulege sipping on alex's margs and slow cooking pigs, little ones.....the tender kinda baby ones....:bounce:

David K - 5-12-2005 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
David, if the new paved road is in the same location as the graded gravel road in the photo, perhaps it truncated the runway leaving it as the now reported 1500'. Most of the "bush" type aircraft used in Baja can handle 1500' with a fair headwind to help them out, but still that is pretty hairy, and certainly the mins. that any reasonable pilot would tackle. Personally, I am with Capt. Mike-----1700' min.. and I would "pucker" at that.


I understand the need for caution... The graded road is now the paved road, in the same place... They even bowed it west so as to not shorten the runway...

Just north of El Vergel you see the highway again vee'd out to not cut off La Roca's (former) runway... Alas, since the gov't started charging land owners to have runways $1,000 US a year, many have closed. Bahia Santa Maria and Coloradito also had runways...

I can't get Capt. Mike to even land at Munoz' strip next door to Camp Gecko (3,000', but sandy)... Again, I don't have a $$$$ airplane to wreck, and he does... or doesn't want to, that is!

Runway at south end of BOLA

Barry A. - 5-12-2005 at 06:52 PM

David----if that runway you speak of is the same one that I remeber, it IS very sandy, and tho I have not looked at it for about 10 years I did not like the looks of it at that time. Capt. Mike knows what he is talking about. Can't believe that Munoz used to land there with his heavy aircraft---wow, what I guy!!!! I have never quite understood completely where Gecho Camp is-----never seen it. We always camped at La Gringa, or just west of La Gringa, on the beach. Last time there was two years ago, but did not get down to the southbay area.

Camp Gecko

bajalou - 5-12-2005 at 07:40 PM

Here's a shot so that maybe you can see relationship with the intersectioncoming into LA Bay and Camp Gecko

Well,It didn't like 50kb, so will try one a little smaller



[Edited on 5-13-2005 by bajalou]

South BOLA runway

Barry A. - 5-12-2005 at 10:09 PM

Wow, what a great shot. Thank you very much, BajaLou. The runway I remember must be just south of Gecho (that is if I remember correctly)

the problem with Munoz is

capt. mike - 5-13-2005 at 05:20 AM

that after rains it gets a bunch of little vados, and some can be 6" deep or more - and no one hardly ever maintains it, grades it whatever too bad, then there are the ROCKS - cause it would make a great access to Doc's place.
Jack Mack, el jefe de baja bush pilotos has taken his shrike in , a year or so ago and reported crappy conditions, he put it in between vados, quite a feat, used 1500', and had a dicey take off.
it ain't worth wrecking a plane over when you have a paved strip north of town.

capt. mike - 5-13-2005 at 05:23 AM

and......i am wheels up in one hour with HENDU and co. for some mulege fishing......anyone in the area stop on over, you know where....yee haw!!

El Vergel - 5-13-2005 at 08:16 AM

Nice thread goin' here...I wanted to chime in about the El Vergel strip. It seems busy enough. Mostly smaller Cessna's, and the Skymaster lives there. The Army had it ditched a few years back to prevent landings but it looks to be in great shape now thanks to the Skymaster. We were down in August some years back and I witnessed a large twin taildragger land, turn around and take off right away. A beautiful plane. Looked to be all shiny silver. No tail markings, letters, identification of any sort! What was that all about I wonder??? Uh huh!

I'm headed down there this weekend (Friday the 13th of May) for a quick three-dayer from Hermosa Beach for fun in the 90 degree plus sun and a swim in the Sea of Cortez. Any aviators willing to "risk" it from the South Bay or Orange County please e-me. I'll share expenses, provide logding, and breakfast/dinner/caguamas will be on me. elvergel@hotmail.com.

Ciao Amici,
Vern

David K - 5-13-2005 at 08:23 AM

I understand Mike...

Barry, Munoz' runway (north end) is about 50 yards from Camp Gecko property line...

Lou, again great satellite/GPS image. The paved runway (built in front of 'cross-wind canyon' can be seen in the top of your image.

David K - 5-13-2005 at 08:33 AM

Here is Arnold's page for Munoz' strip (in 1987). The length was 3,915'. Galen's book 'Fly Baja!' (1998) has it at 3,347'! His photo looking south shows how close Camp Gecko's palapas are to the runway.

Neal Johns - 5-13-2005 at 10:33 AM

You young kids don't know what a Mixmaster really is! I had one in my back yard at the Palm Springs Airport when I was a kid.:lol:

Who can name it?

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Neal Johns]

Mike Supino - 5-13-2005 at 11:27 AM

The Good Ol' Douglas xb-42

Mix-master

Barry A. - 5-13-2005 at 11:39 AM

Neil and Mike-----

that baby worked equally well in the water, right??????

Mike Supino - 5-13-2005 at 12:21 PM

It was more efficient as a submarine