BajaNomad - More on Graffitti

More on Graffitti

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 11:12 AM

This turned into such a battle before, (hit search, type graffitti) that I think it's worth discussing again. :lol:

No David, I don't have pictures of Mexicans spray painting rocks. But I do have pictures of gringos painting rocks. In a posted Mexican biosphere/reserve. Kind of ironic when you consider I was meeting with PROFEPA to again discuss solutions to issues concerning litter, graffitti, cave protection, etc. on the same trip as when those photos were taken.
And I deal with solutions. Fines, signs, vigilance by locals, weekly cleanups, graffitti removal and education is the direction this whole thing is going. PROFEPA is now providing education and credentials to the locals to assist with these problems.
And the schools down here are also stressing the importance of a clean environment. As I have said before, there is a huge difference in the attitudes of most Mexicans when it comes to trash and graffitti nowadays. That's because they are realizing what they have and the education and credentials they are now receiving. :light:

As far as percentages go, I would say that you are underestimating the amount of graffitti done by the Mexicans. The difference is, their inferior education system seems to work. They are learning.
Now, when some huge gringo corporation comes in, with all their money, higher education, cool stuff, and does something like paint up a national park, these folks down here get a little upset. I was with a bunch when it happened and they were peeed! And, so was I.

There is no excuse for this and you trying to justify it by your stupid comparisons is ridiculous. And, it's time to see what can be done about it. Maybe BFG can now give something back to Mexico besides a bunch of beer sales and drunken race fans.

And by the way, that BFG graffitti is in many places along the course. Plastic signs? Could be used as collectors items :light:

Buy em books, send em to school, what do they do? Paint the rocks! :no:

And some of you wonder why the gringos have such a "shining " reputation. :lol:

Painted ROCKS

Big Al - 7-13-2005 at 01:22 PM

I was just through Catavina a couple weeks ago and saw a large rock with a Tecate sign painted on it. The billboard sales must sell space to the locals as well.

Head down to the interior of Mexico, Morelos area, and graffitti is everywhere there as well. Probably done 100% by the locals. It is a trend, an ugly one, that is all over the place.

Big Al

Sharksbaja - 7-13-2005 at 01:32 PM

Ouch! That stings! You, me and a zillion others feel the same way. Their(BFG) disregard for property illustrates a mindset that a disproportionate amount of Americans seem to feel about the land we visit as guests. Growing up in So.Cal. gave me a mixed perspective. Seeing grafitti adorning buildings was very common and still is. We made many trips to the mountains and I was always put-off by the painting I would see in places like the Kern River or the Mojave Desert.
I always wondered what types of "low-lifes" would deface mother natures work. I wonder why these idiots think it is ok in Mexico? Do they look at Mexico as an uncaring, anything goes type of place? Yes. Thanks for reminding us how our so called "brothers" behave.

Missing photo

Mike Supino - 7-13-2005 at 01:49 PM

Jr,
What happened to the photo that you posted on the Off Road forum?
I only had a chance to glance at it.
From what I remember from that glimpse was that the vehicle looked like a BMW or Mercedes SUV.
Will you re-post the photo?

Let's be real

Big Al - 7-13-2005 at 02:10 PM

Graffitti is an ugly fad. Unfortunatley, many American fads will catch on in Mexico after a slight delay. This one has caught on in full force. It is everywhere in the interior area, in and around Mexico DF. In over 20 years I have not seen it this bad before. It is painted over and comes back. Seems to be worse in the poorer areas. My in-laws exterior wall is tagged every couple weeks and gets expensive to paint over.

Part of the problem is the government and business has institutionalized it. Political candidates as well as Coke, Tecate, and others paint edvertisements on walls EVERYWHERE. They often get permission. A mayorial candidate got permission from my in-laws to paint there wall and did so. This is where the problem lies. These advertisements are not regulated by zoning laws or any other kind of municipal codes. If it were on a billboard it would be easy to control. Therefore, the world is ones canvas. It makes no difference if it is commercial advertising or tagging, it still looks like graffitti to me, but if someone is going to mark up my walls I would rather be paid for it.

Blame the Americans or blame the corporations if it makes you feel better. Some people just love to hate us yanks and especially "greedy corporations". However, this blameing will not solve the problem. It will have to be a reprogramming of the youth within the country. It is very much like the litter problem in Mexico. If your parents didn't teach you it is wrong, than the trash can is the closest open window in your car.

Big Al

Just back from Italy------

Barry A. - 7-13-2005 at 02:36 PM

and the graffiti problem in Rome was discraceful, especially when you get out of the main tourist area where the government does it's best to erase it as fast as it is put up. It was also very bad in the cities of Sicily, but not as bad in Tuscany (Florence and Sienna and Lucca). 98% of the grafitti seen in Italy was pointless, and beyond even conveying a message.

Big Al is right----this is a world-wide happening, not just a USA/Mexico problem. There are pin-heads all over the world that are very unhappy, and they want others to be unhappy also, and have no respect for anything, apparently.

I wish I had the answers, but I don't.

bajaruby - 7-13-2005 at 02:48 PM

Yah know,
I really don't care for the advertisment graffiti, but to be driving along and see a frog or a dinasor(sp), or something that the people, (I assume mexican), have taken the time and saw something in a rock as they drove by, walked by or what ever, seems to make mexico what I like about mexico.
Sure, I don't think that every rock and every formation should have paint on it, but I think, and my opinon only, driving a long stretch of road and to see something someone else has seen in their mind, before the painting began, makes for a little smile on our faces. HEY, it's mexico and if it wasn't what it is, then why do we love it so much?
AMERICANS should most definitely be band from this. It is not their culture, it is theirs.

I blame BFG

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 03:08 PM

for what BFG did or allowed to happen. Pretty simple to me! :light:

"Blame the Americans or blame the corporations if it makes you feel better. Some people just love to hate us yanks and especially "greedy corporations". However, this blameing will not solve the problem. It will have to be a reprogramming of the youth within the country. It is very much like the litter problem in Mexico. If your parents didn't teach you it is wrong, than the trash can is the closest open window in your car."

I think perhaps you should re read my post. I may have mentioned something like that in there.

But, when you have been trying to teach these people about not breaking their beer bottles, heaving their trash, tagging, and some gringo corporation comes down here and sets an example such as this, yes I do place blame. Especially considering the amount of money they put into printing stuff. Plastic signs are too difficult?

Pahleeeeeze!

I wonder what would happen

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 03:11 PM

If BFG spray painted an ad on half dome. Or within any other national park boundary.

Me No - 7-13-2005 at 04:28 PM

JR, from and american perspective, you couldn't be more right about the Graffiti from the BFG painters and others in the off-road world. However, Mexicans don't seem to give two pesos about graffiti. I am sure many do, but the amount of spray paint on the rocks in the Catavina area makes me believe that every vehicle down there travels with a few cans in the trunk.

If you really wont to make a difference, I suggest you send your picture to BFG, along with a link to this thread, and see if you get any results. The next stop could be the baja department of tourism, and even Sal Fish. Racers need to be made aware that the use of spray paint in any form will not be tolerated. I'm sure many of us have seen the big BFG marks sprayed on the black top as well, not quite as bad as painting something natural, but it still shows a lack of respect and arrogence.

Graffiti Garbage

MrBillM - 7-13-2005 at 05:45 PM

I once sent a Letter to the Editor of the Palm Springs Desert Sun commenting on the various proposals they were considering to deal with Graffiti Artists. My suggestion was a trained long-distance sniper using a Night Vision Telescopic Sight. Stake out known graffiti areas and wait for one of these slime to begin work, then reach out and touch him (or her). Do it enough and the thought of being whacked in the dark from a distance might deter this garbage.

Interestingly, they published the letter. Even more interesting was that the only responses were Positive.

Back when I kept my Sailboat on a Mooring off of Coronado in San Diego Bay, I would see the park adjacent to the mooring area invaded on the weekends by Third-Worlders from across the bay. By the time the weekend finished, every public building in and adjacent to that area was plastered with Graffiti. I once stopped to talk with the Supervisor of the crew painting over the crap and he said he had a five-man crew that worked all week round covering this stuff up in one of the Richest areas around.

This Human Detritus will not be stopped by education or any other touchy-feely solution. They understand only pain and punishment.

Hey Bill

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 06:04 PM

are you looking for work? :lol:

And are you by any chance related to Judge Roy Bean?

Me No - 7-13-2005 at 06:34 PM

Mr. Bill. I like you. Now tell us how you REALLY feel. :lol:

However, on the grand social scale, I don't think graffiti is a capitol offence.
Probably, we will have to try something else.

aww lighten up...

eetdrt88 - 7-13-2005 at 06:43 PM

you old fuddy-duddys...its only graffiti,it wont kill you and its been around since the beginning of time...most people like to leave their mark and some in a huge way...i've gotta say it really doesnt bother me at all,in fact i kinda like it

PacO - 7-13-2005 at 06:50 PM

I know for a fact that if I catch the little bonehead who graffitied in my alley and on my fence that he is going to meet the 5 of clubs.
Back to the original thread; corporations that have a healthy profit margin have no excusesto not lead by example and not the bottom line.

i knew a guy that used to complain alot...

eetdrt88 - 7-13-2005 at 06:57 PM

bad things happened to him all the time...but he was kind of an a**hole so i figured he deserved it....end of story :lol:

Helping Darwin

MrBillM - 7-13-2005 at 07:23 PM

My preferred solution would have the added advantage of removing from the Gene Pool those whose only influence in society is negative.

It is extremely unlikely that we would be whacking any future scientists, doctors etc., only those who will be a strain on our penal system for the rest of their miserable lives.

JR - Back when I was younger, stronger and with better reflexes and eyesight, it is a job that I would LOVE to perform. It's the kind of public service employment that could put a smile on your face every day.

yankeeirishman - 7-13-2005 at 07:48 PM

Graffittees hunting tags should be issued for each season. Make nice trophies on the living room wall.....

Bill

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 08:00 PM

We seem to have a lot in common despite our differences.

Jr...

Mexray - 7-13-2005 at 09:02 PM

...I agree with many of your comments on this 'tagging' subject matter...however, I don't think we can assume or directly blame BFG (the corporation) for the actions of a couple of it's nit-whited 'employees' or 'hired hands' for the race event. I'm sure BFG doesn't condone this kind of behavior of it's employees and would take direct action if made aware.

It was hard to tell from your original picture, but the 'taggers' looked a bit 'Latino' to me...could it be possible that these were Mexican employees of BFG? Was the vehicle they were driving from the US, or did it have 'Baja' plates?

It doesn't make the 'act' any less disgusting, but it would be nice to know the 'rest' of the story.

They were gringos

jrbaja - 7-13-2005 at 09:09 PM

from back east somewhere. N.Carolina maybe. They were u.s. plates and it wasn't just them. There are rocks along the course with the km's to the pits spray painted on them. Unfortunately, it wasn't just an isolated indident.

Now I have the picture...

Mexray - 7-13-2005 at 09:31 PM

...those guys were in fact, part of a huge US construction corporation, and they were making these marks on the rocks to guide the roadbed crews as to where the new Super-Baja Expressway is to be built!...

pokey - 7-13-2005 at 09:59 PM

Graffiti is a hispanic thing. A trip to any inner city getto dominated by Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Haitans, Columbians, Mexicans, whatever... will affirm this.

Any claim that graffitti is caused by caucasians is based on pc bull sh*t. Thee most rundown trailerpark getto doesn't have the graffiti that a hispanic neighborhood has. Prove me wrong.

Me No - 7-13-2005 at 10:07 PM

In order to be "Down", you need to be "Up".

You figure it out. :?:

Diver - 7-13-2005 at 10:12 PM

Or to have been up at some point. Good point Me No.
Some folks don't have the option to put themselves in other peoples shoes as they have never been out of their own ! Maybe never wore them at all !
Most of us are very lucky folks to have walked in many pair over the years !

pokey - 7-13-2005 at 10:18 PM

your definitely not referring to me [b/]

I know poverty like few on this board will ever know.

Hispanic Culture ?

MrBillM - 7-14-2005 at 09:36 AM

The only exception I would take to the statement that "It is a Hispanic thing" is that Years back when Graffiti was common in the U.S., it was extremely rare in Baja. Perhaps with the growing number of Pocho gang types that are coming South, especially on the Holidays, this has been one result of the mixing of the cultures. Quien Sabe ? ?

Seguro Se?or

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 09:59 AM

But, many are coming from Los Cabos as well as the mainland. I saw a group of "lowrider" chicanos in Los Barriles not long ago. Baggie pants, attitudes, tattoos, the works. Nice cars though. But, I bet the trunks were stocked up in the paint dept. :no:

And as far as the mixing of cultures go, the locals pretty much don't.

[Edited on 7/14/2005 by jrbaja]

Touching Taggers

MrBillM - 7-14-2005 at 01:46 PM

Back in 1995, when William Masters took out those two taggers in Los Angeles, Killing one, I had some T-shirts made up that read "1st Annual Bag-A-Tagger Masters Tournament". Initially, I made up two dozen to give out to friends, but demand was so popular that I ordered another three dozen to sell. I'm down to the last two I saved. At the Gun show the following year in San Bernardino, I had one of the vendors propose a deal if I wanted to mass produce them, but I told him to go ahead on his own. The satisfaction of knowing the thought was so well received was reward enough.

The image in the telescopic sight is that of a hand holding a spray can.

[Edited on 7-14-2005 by MrBillM]

PJC - 7-14-2005 at 01:57 PM

Did the vendor ever put these into production?

That would make fine signs

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 02:24 PM

at both the north and south ends of Catavi?a! :light:

the whiner's are at it again...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 05:58 PM

crying about things they have absolutely no control over....all the neighborhood watch programs in the world will never end graffiti...it is something that goes on all over the world and probably always will...so either ignore it or learn to love it,,,but by all means quit your incessant whining :lol:

Dirt eater

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 06:43 PM

Are you saying the national parks in the u.s. are full of graffitti these days? I haven't been in a while.

Otherwise, I suggest you take a reading comprehension course. :light:

no,actually what i'm saying is

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 07:10 PM

why waste your time complaining about something you have no control over...i highly doubt that you or anyone for that matter is going to go around and start cleaning all this horrible graffiti that upsets you so much and since you have no way of stopping it in Baja or the U.S. i see no reason to complain about it....unless of course that is what you like to do

Any of the complaining/whining I do on here

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 07:20 PM

is because I have already done something about it and am continueing to do so, personally . And so are many other people. Right at this moment, it is through this message board.

In fact, many people have been working on this for quite a few years, beginning with the education of the children and a whole lot more than that. This is just one more step in the right direction and fortunately, there are enough people that aren't quitters and serious about protecting the environment, that we are already seeing major progress in other areas. Before they become like Catavi?a.

There will always be a few who think nothing can be done. They are wrong. :light:

and there will always be a few...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja

There will always be a few who think nothing can be done. They are wrong. :light:

who dont have such a narrow-minded view of how things ought to be in"paradise"....I embrace Baja as it is,not how i think it should be or how some say it was 30 years ago....i am not suggesting people go out and start tagging,i am merely saying that what graffiti i do see in baja does not bother me

Do you work for

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 08:49 PM

BFg by any chance? Or, do you do anything down here besides vacation?
And you never answered me about your feelings on graffitti in the u.s. national parks.
It's nice that it doesn't bother you I guess. But it bothers many of the people that live here. Mostly the Mexicans that aren't from somewhere else and the agencies that deal with it.
You by the way are part of a survey. How many of the gringos on a Baja message board actually care about the place they are lucky enough to be able to visit every now and then and how many feel like you do.

So far, enough caring people have replied that you will probably still be able to come here. Otherwise, they were thinking of limiting the tourism to Asians and Europeans, who actually do care about the environment of other countries.

youre pure comedy bro...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
BFg by any chance? Or, do you do anything down here besides vacation?
And you never answered me about your feelings on graffitti in the u.s. national parks.
It's nice that it doesn't bother you I guess. But it bothers many of the people that live here. Mostly the Mexicans that aren't from somewhere else and the agencies that deal with it.
You by the way are part of a survey. How many of the gringos on a Baja message board actually care about the place they are lucky enough to be able to visit every now and then and how many feel like you do.

So far, enough caring people have replied that you will probably still be able to come here. Otherwise, they were thinking of limiting the tourism to Asians and Europeans, who actually do care about the environment of other countries.

Debra - 7-14-2005 at 09:14 PM

Quote from JR: "How many of the gringos on a Baja message board actually care about the place they are lucky enough to be able to visit every now and then?"

Add to survey: 1

I have to ask though, Asians? Please don't 'flame" me, just asking...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 09:34 PM

so do all those rocks and tree trunks in Baja that are painted white offend you to??? or are those ok because it wasnt the work of some evil graffiti artist :lol:

88----

Barry A. - 7-14-2005 at 10:09 PM

count me on the "anti-grafitti" side of the ledger. Folks who leave their "sign" are totally selfish, in my opinion. It shows a total lack of respect for anybody, and anything. Have you not noticed the fines (in CA) for doing this type of stuff? The vast majority are offended by grafitti!!!!

barry...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 10:25 PM

it is nice to know that you are against graffiti but it really means very little to me...i am neither for or against as i do not feel the need to take up sides on such an absurd issue...if someone painted some obscenity on my house i suppose i would be somewhat disturbed...but when driving through the baja desert and i see someones name painted on a rock i do not feel the need to take up arms...but if it would make you guys feel better i could pretend that it really peees me off....anything to make a fellow nomad feel at ease :yes:

Sharksbaja - 7-14-2005 at 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88
it is nice to know that you are against graffiti but it really means very little to me...i am neither for or against as i do not feel the need to take up sides on such an absurd issue...if someone painted some obscenity on my house i suppose i would be somewhat disturbed...but when driving through the baja desert and i see someones name painted on a rock i do not feel the need to take up arms...but if it would make you guys feel better i could pretend that it really peees me off....anything to make a fellow nomad feel at ease :yes:

So you have no qualms that fellow Americans look/act like
trash. So why my friend did you go on so much on something that meant nothing to you. Obviously if the crew did not crap on your yard but your neighbors, you would care not there either. Hellooooooo neighbor!

you are correct...

eetdrt88 - 7-14-2005 at 10:48 PM

i have no qualms about that,they do not represent me and i do not represent them....most of the locals i have met in baja are smart enough to figure out what i'm doing in baja,which has nothing to do with defacing their public property....sounds like sharkbait has a little guilty conscience :lol:

At least it's not posting

jrbaja - 7-14-2005 at 10:57 PM

as anonymous. :biggrin:

Sharksbaja - 7-15-2005 at 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88
i have no qualms about that,they do not represent me and i do not represent them....most of the locals i have met in baja are smart enough to figure out what i'm doing in baja,which has nothing to do with defacing their public property....sounds like sharkbait has a little guilty conscience :lol:

not hardly

I didn't mean my neighbor, I meant yours :lol:

It matters to me how my neighbors house looks but it's not my biz. :no:

unless they mistakenly make it my biz.

My neighbor... he's a local..... here, but I wouldn't represent him that's for sure. I we have plenty of good ones also.

Actually it's the other way around for me. My neighbor tried to log off my property without a current survey. He sent his logging buddies in to start clearcutting. I stopped them. But the area he did log belonged to Georgia Pacific. Their lawyers contacted me later. To his dismay, when I comissioned a new survey, lo and behold, my property extends way beyond his markers. In fact I now enjoy owning a big chunk of his yard and stream. Must be his bad karma.

I certainly do care what jerks do in our neck of the woods.
Whether or not it's public land. Just because GP is a private corp shouldn't give it license to marshall it's own clearcuts. But it does anyway. They own thousands of acres. It's scary.
A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Next thing you know we'll be called "Rock Huggers" :saint:

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by Sharksbaja]

Barry A. - 7-15-2005 at 08:54 AM

88----------

Maybe you are just not thinking about the implications of graffiti------I certainly can agree with you that "grafitti" itself is rather absurd as an issue, but it is what it represents that bothers me. It is like litter----To keep it simple, I do not understand why people would want to trash the environment of other folks, and graffiti/litter is just that. What graffiti and litter implies, at least to me, is something ominous, something that does bother me a lot----namely that these violators just don't give a damn about other folks, or the land--either in this country, or in Mexico, or probably anywhere---- AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DON'T!!!! That is worriesome!!!

People that litter and paint graffiti are "part of the problem--not part of the solution". Does this make any sense??

Sharks also makes some really good points.

you guys have to understand...

eetdrt88 - 7-15-2005 at 10:38 AM

i live in southern california,a place that prides itself on its squeaky clean image and the town i live in is a shining example of this...which in a way is good i guess but can be a little cumbersome for a guy like me that grew up in very rural areas...so when i venture south and i see a little graffiti and some litter on the highway,i know i definitely have left my neighborhood which gets me all giddy and excited...but to be honest i prefer pristine places that are untouched by man in any way...so in a way i actually agree with you guys that people should use common sense and not mar up the beauty of untouched nature....maybe save the graffiti for downtown L.A. :spingrin:

Is this really David posting

jrbaja - 7-15-2005 at 11:26 AM

Or, would you make up your mind! :lol:

88-----

Barry A. - 7-15-2005 at 11:30 AM

Great response!!!!! In all seriousness, I understand much better now, at least where you are coming from. Thanks. I am still a little uncomfortable with it, but at least it makes more sense to me, now. Barry

Laguna Beach

jrbaja - 7-15-2005 at 11:39 AM

The real O.C. :lol:

Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong :light:

what???

eetdrt88 - 7-15-2005 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja

Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong :light:

not really understanding that one...

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by eetdrt88]

Sharksbaja - 7-15-2005 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja

Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong :light:

not really understanding that one...

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by eetdrt88]

You

do mean O.C. right, not Beverly Hills

TMW - 7-15-2005 at 05:32 PM

JR, I sent you a U2U concerning BFG. Please let me know if you did not get it. Thanks.

Just an alternate perspective...

bigzaggin - 7-16-2005 at 09:40 AM

in certain parts of the world, namely inner-cities and all that, graffiti is the lone creative outputs for angst-y kids, some of whom eventually graduate into actual art careers, many into commercial/graphic design. It's not unlike hip-hop, born out of necessity to express and the desire to transcend urban anonymity. Agree or disagree, some of the "bombs" you see in NYC, LA, Rio, Tokyo are undeniably the work of true artists, however "illegal" their work. In fact, right here in Venice there's actually "legal" grafitti walls down by the beach - a sign that the city acknowlegdes it is a legit form of expression.

As for Baja, the three places that spring to mind for me at the painted rocks (aka "frog rocks") above Ensenada, the rock murals outside of Valle Trinidad and the tagged rocks in the "boulder field," and while I'd concede that 100 years ago, they'd have all looked better "blank," as the inevitable byproduct of a bored and isolated Baja kids, I think they add some color?and some of the skulls near Trinidad are just plain cool.

So love it or loathe and reserve the right to kick in the head of anyone who tags your garage, but don?t think it?s ?defeatable,? remember your own angst-y teens (who among didn?t wantonly vandalize SOMETHING?) and at least appreciate the gift some of these vandals have.

It?s a tricky issue for sure?

The difference between

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 10:13 AM

the inner city teens is that they couldn't afford to transport their paints to any of the national parks.

And, although Catavi?a is a posted and protected "National Park", I consider the entire peninsula in the same catagory. It is a very small and unique spot on the planet and I think that every measure should be taken to preserve as much of it as possible. This starts with education.
Chances are that some of those folks in the 5000 homes at Loreto Bay will have taggers in their midst. There are already laws and penalties set up for these crimes. The Mexican people who live in these areas don't like it and they are willing to do something about it.
With a little support from the northern neighbors, (those of us who use this peninsula) something can be done to protect this environment. Seriously.

Something tells me that even those on here that say they don't mind graffitti would probably feel differently if "Eat at Joe's" was spray painted on all the unique features of the national parks up there.

When this was a topic before, I think someone posted the penalties for tagging in Mexico.

[Edited on 7/16/2005 by jrbaja]

Sharksbaja - 7-16-2005 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
JR, I sent you a U2U concerning BFG. Please let me know if you did not get it. Thanks.

same here JR

lindsay - 7-16-2005 at 10:48 AM

When I was reading this post and some other ones recently about respecting Baja California's natural areas, I also thought about something the grandpa of one of my Mulege students said to me. He was a very kind and soft-spoken man who would from time to time walk up the 100+ stairs that snake up the hillside to the museum. In the shade of the trees at the top of the museum, he would share stories about the musuem's prison history and he would also bring pieces of palm frongs up to the building and skillfully weave "palomas de palma" for our enjoyment with his dark, leathery hands.

While making the palomas, he would sometimes comment on the museum and how it was valuable for his grand-daughter to be a guide so she could share the region's history with visitors, not just the tourists he said, but the locals as well. One day, he added that sometimes people don't see the big picture about the world around them. I asked him what he meant and he said that some gringos complain about the Mexicans' way of life and how they live in their environment and the Mexicans complain about what the gringos do and it goes around and around. He said sometimes people get it right and listen to each other. Then, he told me something that I thought was really meaningful. He said around the world, people in every country use their nationality to claim ownership to nature and the right to do as they please or justify that they know best because it's "their country". He then added that he watched a show on TV and saw what planet earth looked like from space. He said when you see the planet from space, you can't see any of the lines on the map showing where one country starts and another begins, it's just one mass of water and land. He smiled and told me, we are just part of that whole mix and too bad we can't see that we really own nothing whether we come from Mexico, the U.S. or any other country.

I thought this grandpa was one wise man and I still think about his words and I look forward to seeing him whenever I visit Mulege. How to translate his message into action is hard but I try to remember that I own nothing from nature and I'm just part of the mix....

Sharks,

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 11:13 AM

I did get it so I did not reply. And, I sent the pic. to the address TW sent me. Have you been talking to TW and is Bob the same guy you talked to?

Sharksbaja - 7-16-2005 at 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
I did get it so I did not reply. And, I sent the pic. to the address TW sent me. Have you been talking to TW and is Bob the same guy you talked to?

Negative, I am going after the marketing director and consumer division V.P.

bigzaggin-----

Barry A. - 7-16-2005 at 04:34 PM

At the risk of sounding like somebody who thinks he is a "saint", (or a dork) I have to tell you that I have never vandalized anything, ever, and as far as I know none of my friends, or kids, ever did either. This is a common belief of many, "that everybody does it", but it simply is not true-----it is an urban myth. Most folks don't vandalize, period, Thank God!!!

Political ads

neilmac - 7-16-2005 at 05:03 PM

Seems like I used to see 'PRI' painted on every rock along the highway; do they still do it? Is it graffiti when the politicians do it?

Neil

Yes

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 05:17 PM

check out these pics...

eetdrt88 - 7-16-2005 at 05:24 PM

http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/baja/gulick/images/m91-35-1...

Only saw one

jrbaja - 7-16-2005 at 05:58 PM

but pretty cool picture.

Barry A...

bigzaggin - 7-17-2005 at 09:18 AM

you sound like a saint...or maybe or you were never a bored suburbanite or maybe your folks put the fear of god into you.

But please don't think I'm saying, "Everyone does it therefore it's okay." Certainly the cops don't - and shouldn't - react that way. I'm just saying it's pretty common and probably inevitable for A LOT of precocious kids - like smoking weed, playing their car stereos too loud and bad haircuts.

Having grown up (some) my current graffiti practice is "wash me" and "I'm a kook" in the dust on friends' cars. :-)

A-OK - 7-17-2005 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigzaggin

Having grown up (some) my current graffiti practice is "wash me" and "I'm a kook" in the dust on friends' cars. :-)

I'm guilty

Defenders of Destruction

MrBillM - 7-17-2005 at 10:45 AM

The defense by many here of the disgusting and destructive habit of Graffiti as well as other acts performed by "precocious" children and others who have yet to grow up, simply confirms what I've noticed about many Touristas who visit over the years. For some reason, there are people who do not feel they're having a good time unless they are offending someone else. Their drunken loutish behaviour, their playing obscene ghetto Rap at intolerable levels, their indiscriminate use of offensive fireworks, their roaring through the camp ground at dangerous speeds, their scribbling defacing of public and private property. These are all symptoms of the same lack of character that defines a whole group of total jerks.

Sharksbaja - 7-17-2005 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The defense by many here of the disgusting and destructive habit of Graffiti as well as other acts performed by "precocious" children and others who have yet to grow up, simply confirms what I've noticed about many Touristas who visit over the years. For some reason, there are people who do not feel they're having a good time unless they are offending someone else. Their drunken loutish behaviour, their playing obscene ghetto Rap at intolerable levels, their indiscriminate use of offensive fireworks, their roaring through the camp ground at dangerous speeds, their scribbling defacing of public and private property. These are all symptoms of the same lack of character that defines a whole group of total jerks.

And there are many more "jerk" categories. I blame humans.

Totally...

bigzaggin - 7-17-2005 at 04:11 PM

humans suck. They should be banished from Baja and elsewhere.

I'd be lying to say I didn't do some dumb things in Baja - when I was like, 15. But you grow up and learn better. Now I try my best to treat the place like a holy land and hope other visitors do the same.

But if you can't forgive the sins of a teenager, you certainly shouldn't have one and probably never were one.

yea....

eetdrt88 - 7-17-2005 at 04:42 PM

humans are terrible,,,especially the teenage humans,theyre the worst of the whole lot :lol:

Sharksbaja - 7-18-2005 at 12:28 AM

It was fun and it was easier to get away with. No zero tolerance. What the hell's wrong with the kids today? :saint:

JR, still awaiting reply. Just like everyone else. I'll go after a couple more, Someone WILL listen.

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Sharksbaja]