BajaNomad - Local labor costs

Local labor costs

Bajadtodebone - 8-8-2005 at 06:45 PM

We are in the initial planning phase of building a little casa in BOLA. I'm pondering the pros and cons of do-it -yerself and hiring someone to do it for me. I have come to the conclusion I would like to do a combination of the two. This leaves me with the question: What is the going or expected rate of pay for hiring local skilled workers (stone work, high work, or masonry work, etc.) to do portions of the construction and/or assist in tasks that require more than this old man to accomplish? Can anyone shed any light on this? Commets (more pros and cons) about different approaches keeping in mind I like to do construction projects, I am just to damn old to wrestle the big stuff around anymore.

David K - 8-8-2005 at 07:04 PM

Did you read Mike Humfreville's first L.A. Bay experience with hired help?

4baja (Steve) has some insight on this with his cabana construction at Gecko...

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2005 at 07:06 PM

Yes..David has it...

Talk to others that are building in the area.

Look at FINISHED work.

mcgyver - 8-8-2005 at 07:19 PM

NR.1 What ever you do get it in writing as to what and how much and be aware that if you order materials from a lumber yard make sure YOU pay for them and that YOUR name is on the ticket and it is complete.

There is a thousand horrow stories you will hear! Just don't be foolish, you would not give Carte-Blanc to a contractor in the states so why would you do it in Mexico? But people do all the time! And some of them get burned bad. If you want e-mail addresses of some of them that I know personaly PM me as some of them are embarrased and would never admit on this forum that they were took!!!!

A little PS on this :Your friends from the states can not come down and help you build the house! You will be reported!
I do not know the labor cost in BOLA but in San Felipe they are approaching stateside prices. ( And you know who's fault that is.)

Another point! Find out where you would have to go to court (What County) if it became nessary? I think Esenada. In San Felipe its Mexicalli, but in the southern areas its Ensenada.
In Mexico they have Delgados, The Govenor of the states of BCN & BCS are Delgados of the Presidente of Mexico. The mayor of Mexicalli for instance is the Delgado of Mexicalli County which is larger than a lot of states and he is the Sub-Delgado to the Govenor, and it goes down to the smallest village, there is always a Delgado, He maybe a Sub--Sub-Sub etc . but they all are reporting to some one. Ask lots of questions before hand. Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble. If you are the Ugly American Type and going to hire these dumb Mexicans to build me a house for $5.00 a day you are already in trouble.
Ok, I had my say , now lets here from those who built a million dollar mansion with tortilla wages and have no papers what so ever to even be in Mexico.

bajalou - 8-8-2005 at 08:04 PM

I think you're covering all the bases, mcgyver. Social Security has to be paid on all workers wages and the end responsability is the home owner. If you hire a contractor, make sure the SS is paid.

:yes:

Dave - 8-8-2005 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
I think you're covering all the bases, mcgyver. Social Security has to be paid on all workers wages and the end responsability is the home owner. If you hire a contractor, make sure the SS is paid.

:yes:

That is not correct!

If you hire a contractor it is his responsibility to hire and pay his workers, including SS.

And while it is true that you can't let your friends help to build your house, you can do any work (on your own property) you wish. Fact is, without your permission, no one can even set foot on your property.

Where do you people get this stuff?

See thread titled

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:25 PM

HOA's, Social Clubs and Groupsagringos! :lol:

bajalou - 8-8-2005 at 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Just wait till your contractor doesn't pay the SS (even though it's his responsibility) and see what happens when the SS people show up at your door. Lots of people around here in deep dodo because contractor didn't pay it. And they all ended up paying.

:biggrin:

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by bajalou]

mcgyver - 8-8-2005 at 10:14 PM

Well I got lots of it from 1 friend in my Campo who did not get anything in writing and when presented with an inflated bill on his departure date back to the states for the winter did not pay it and the court in Mexicalli awarded the contractor $8000 and I there for the whole thing but he was a know it all too so he paid the $8000 + $850 fine for not having FM-3. I got cited for simply relaying an e-mail from him (the gringo) to the contractor and damm near had to pay the $8000 my self so you guys can talk all that expert talk but I have walked where I speak, if you are involved in something like this it will get you too! I never post anything on this forum that I do not know for a fact to be true and I have been missing from this forum for months for the very reason that every time you post something someone attacts you or acuses you of outright lying so I will probably not be back for another 6 months, most of it isnt woth the time it takes. Not to speak of another good friend who was deported and his total investment of thousands forfeited + fine of $15,000. Another family who I did not know was given 45 minutes to load and leave a San Felipe Campo and thats all last year so I don't know where you are but I see the same thing week after week and still the people pour in from California and Nevada and beg someone to rip them off. And you can argue Mexican Law all you want but it is what ever the person enforcing it says it it is at that time. If you want to take on the life time care of a injured worker not paying the SS or making damm sure it is paid is the way to go. bajaLou probably knows better than I do because I try to stay out of LA south which is San Felipe these days. Just this past Saturday bI went to a moving sale and when I asked where they where moving too they proudly told me that they were moving to Muledge, when I asked how long they had been going ther they said they had never been there they made a deal over the internet and this realator was handeling everthing for them to move there and build.
When I asked waht was in the 2 Very large new cargo trailers sitting near by they said it was all there tools, windows ,doors appliances, special hsrdware etc etc. What do you do then ? Tell them the truth?Let them drive up to the border thining theyb are just going to drive $50,000 worth of stuff across? I am glad someone else took on that chore! Re minds me of Gernanicus, he emailed me and I gave him loads of info then He called my a lier and said Baja was claen and did not have a garbbage problem that someone on this forum told him so!!! And also I was lying when I told him that the Mexicans where not going to let him drive a 13 ton diesel dump truck across the border, but some one on this forum told him "No Problem" bring it on down. I don't know if he did or not, maybe so.
ADIOS see you in another six months or so. bajalou see you soon!
BTW I never said you can not work on your own house but state side friends CAN NOT help you paid or unpaid, if someone complains you PAY.

mcgyver - 8-8-2005 at 10:15 PM

Yes and I know I can not spell and especialy when I am PO and whats more I do not give a good S__T what you think!

bajalou - 8-9-2005 at 08:17 AM

Don 't go away again mcgyver, I really like your posts and had been wondering where you were. Like you, I share my personal experiences and those of people I know personaly. If some don't want to believe - --- just gota remember "Everyone's entitled to his own stupid opinion" Can't change that

:yes:

Bajalero - 8-9-2005 at 09:46 AM

McGyver wrote

"Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble"

and

"And you can argue Mexican Law all you want but it is what ever the person enforcing it says it it is at that time."

Two very true statements!

--For bajadtodebone- a little example of actual construction cost

I had a septic tank built;

480 block @ .60 = 288.00 ( made by contractor)
10 sacks cement@ 10.00 = 100.00 (sold by contractor)
tot. 388.00
Bill was $1700.00
net = $1312.00

the job was "contracted" and later I was told by the laborer that he was payed $ 150.00 for a completed tank - and this guy put in 8-10 hr days for seven days and humped . So , the orig. contractor made 1312- 150 = $ 1162 for basically nothing, not including his profit on materials.

I figure the laborer actually made $ 150/ (7days x 9 hrs) =

$ 2.38 per hour.

I later discussed with the laborer some more potential (private) work at much better wages . His nervousness over doing any thing without the blessing of the local labor boss (basically fear for his safety) kept us from doing business together.

Ya pays and pays in Baja, but usually not to the most deserving individual. Now if you could find a contractor that does the work himself and pays his own SS you might be able to save some money.

Another point of view

jrbaja - 8-9-2005 at 10:26 AM

"Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble"

Having run crews down here personally, I recommend following the above idea ONLY if you have a contractor/foreman.

When you start trying to "save money" by eliminating the contractor and hiring his workers temporarily this is what happens.
1. The worker isn't experienced enough to actually know how to get things done efficiently or properly so you end up spending more in the long run because of time involved or getting the work fixed. Material prices will go up because this worker will have lost respect with the ferreterias for flaking on the contractor if the contractor is respected.

2. The contractor will be missing tools because the worker will not have enough of his own for your project.

3. The job will end up taking longer than planned no matter how hard the guy was working before or increase in pay he gets.

This is very common, especially in Baja where you are lucky to get a contractor with enough experience with modern construction techniques and tools period.
One of my most common jobs down here was taking in a crew to fix others work. Come to think of it, the same applied in southern california as a customer service manager for a developer. :lol:

I will stick to my one word of advice when this topic was discussed before.
Hire a foreman that is respected by the community. He will make your life a LOT easier. :light:

labor in baja

Bajadtodebone - 8-9-2005 at 01:17 PM

Wow!! OK guys thanks for the feedback. We even managed to stay on topic mostly. I appreaciate the info. So far from what I've read, and I'm sure it is not enough, is that I probably need a freakin lawyer just to cover my ass(ets) if I have locals help me under hire. I have nothing but respect for the people who's country I am going to call my first home and I don't want to make assumptions that could breed ill-will. I also don't want to make a fedeale case out of the construction of a small partime home.

I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. I've seen a fair amount of construction in my neighborhood down there over the past three years and I have yet to get the impression that anyone worries much about procedures. I could be missing something though.

Maybe it makes a difference that the land on which I am building is leased and not owned? In the end my landlord could end up owning whatever I construct.

While I am at it, what is the legalities of bringing construction materials over the boarder? Two years ago I brought down all the materials for a comp roof on a 12x11 shed without comment. ( An other trip they made me go to Otay mesa because they said I had to pay some kind of tax on an old electric 1/3 yard cement mixer I was bringing down. Of course at OM I just drove through cause there was no one in sight except the line of autos for import authorization. With no authority figures in attendance I just skidadled across and waited to hear the bullits flyin. What else could I do? ) I am now a fugative from justice

labor in baja

Bajadtodebone - 8-9-2005 at 01:18 PM

Wow!! OK guys thanks for the feedback. We even managed to stay on topic mostly. I appreaciate the info. So far from what I've read, and I'm sure it is not enough, is that I probably need a freakin lawyer just to cover my ass(ets) if I have locals help me under hire. I have nothing but respect for the people who's country I am going to call my first home and I don't want to make assumptions that could breed ill-will. I also don't want to make a fedeale case out of the construction of a small partime home.

I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. I've seen a fair amount of construction in my neighborhood down there over the past three years and I have yet to get the impression that anyone worries much about procedures. I could be missing something though.

Maybe it makes a difference that the land on which I am building is leased and not owned? In the end my landlord could end up owning whatever I construct.

While I am at it, what is the legalities of bringing construction materials over the boarder? Two years ago I brought down all the materials for a comp roof on a 12x11 shed without comment. ( An other trip they made me go to Otay mesa because they said I had to pay some kind of tax on an old electric 1/3 yard cement mixer I was bringing down. Of course at OM I just drove through cause there was no one in sight except the line of autos for import authorization. With no authority figures in attendance I just skidadled across and waited to hear the bullits flyin. What else could I do? ) I am now a fugative from justice

MH's experience with hired labor

Bajadtodebone - 8-9-2005 at 01:21 PM

Hey DK can you direct me to that posting? I always enjoy reading Mikes stories, especially when I am constipated

You answered your own question

jrbaja - 8-9-2005 at 01:46 PM

"I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. "

As long as you are respected, and they are respected, you are much better off just dealing with them. There are places here in Rosarito that require a licensed contractor to do the construction but if you or an architect do the plans, have them approved, you should have no problem with your "proven" crew.

comitan - 8-9-2005 at 02:00 PM

You can build with your private crew but if you have the building permit which is necessary you will have to pay social security, this I know because I built a casita that way. Three years later they came by with notice to pay. Everything here is computorized and all tied in, it may take time but I don't think you can get away with anything, you shouldn't even try you surely wouldn't in the USA. this goes for all things and everyone.

JESSE - 8-9-2005 at 02:48 PM

Just hire local builders directly, forget about going tru an american middleman, he will just take all your money and provide very little for the added cost.

rpleger - 8-9-2005 at 03:09 PM

Just call the local office of Halliburton.
Youre sure to get a fair and honest deal from them.

Dave - 8-9-2005 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Just wait till your contractor doesn't pay the SS (even though it's his responsibility) and see what happens when the SS people show up at your door. Lots of people around here in deep dodo because contractor didn't pay it. And they all ended up paying.

Well, did those "lots of people" actually have a legal contract with their contractor stipulating that he was responsible to pay the SS?

And did those "lots of people" insist on a factura for receipt of payments?

And they still ended up paying?

Take your time getting back to me on this.

bajalou - 8-9-2005 at 07:17 PM

Quote:

My origional post above is just to let people know that it must be paid and if the contractor doesn't the homeowner is responsible. Similar to a contractor in the US not paying a sub who attaches a "Mechanics Lien" on the property.

As for as the freinds with problems, the contractors have offices, show numbers which one assumes are licence numbers, give Facturas. I believe with most, in the end, the contractor reimbused the homeowners for it,

Just trying to make people aware that it is something to consider.