BajaNomad - Anyone here using Vonage?

Anyone here using Vonage?

Keri - 11-13-2005 at 12:34 PM

Trying to find something that we can use for the hotel and something my mother can call. Seems vonage gives you a stateside number is that correct. Does vonage have the time delay skype has? k :?:

Bajalou, got your message. deleted other post. it was in the wrong forum.

SkypeIn

JZ - 11-13-2005 at 12:49 PM

On your dup thread you asked if Skype allows state side numbers. The answer is yes. They are beta testing it. It is called SkypeIn. Vonage will have the same voice quality issues as skype.

From Skype web site (www.skype.com):

"SkypeIn
With SkypeIn, you can get your own, regular phone number. So if your friends who aren?t using Skype want to call you by dialing a regular number, you can still receive the call in Skype. No matter where you are.

So, if you have a Chicago-based SkypeIn number, but you?re living somewhere in the suburbs of Paris, your Chicago area friends - or anyone! - can just dial your SkypeIn number, and your Skype on the other side of the world starts ringing... and your friends are only paying whatever their phone company charges them for making a phone call to Chicago.

Of course people from everywhere in the world can call your SkypeIn number; but if your SkypeIn number is in the United States and they call from another country, they pay for the international nature of the call. And if you have friends in many places, you can get up to 10 SkypeIn numbers in different places and keep them guessing as to where you really are!

SkypeIn makes it much easier and less expensive for those of your friends, family and business contacts who are not necessarily connected to the Internet to call you and share that urgent news, or to just tell you that their cat had nine (9!) kittens.

To make it even better, SkypeIn comes with a free Skype Voicemail subscription, so when Aunt Jenny calls you about urgent pet-related matters, but you?re busy or even offline, she can leave you a voicemail message (and you know she will). And you can listen to it when you?re good and ready... but don?t forget to call her back to congratulate. And perhaps to help her use Skype so she wouldn?t have to pay for telling you about her cats."

Bajabus - 11-13-2005 at 01:36 PM

This new comer on the block is getting great reviews and is based on the excellent Crystal voice QOS software engine. You get your own phone#, free voice mail, conference calling, 3 way calling and caller ID with unlimited min for only $14.99 and best of all the 1st 3 months are free. Cancel before the end and you paid nothing.

http://www.netzerovoip.com

We are using both

Gypsy Jan - 11-13-2005 at 03:04 PM

Vonage and Skype (619 area chosen from both).

Both are relatively new, so my impressions are sketchy.

Occasionally, on Vonage, the phone rings, but no voice connection, so the calling and called party have dead air. Just try again. Also, sometimes when the called party has an automated answering system requiring pushing buttons through a menu, the called party system doesn't hear commands. Solution: be patient and repeat, or call again later. Sometimes there is an echo, as far as I can tell, the called party doesn't hear it.

Skype voice is usually excellent, but sometimes on speaker, the called party complains that, "Are you talking out of a well?" Solution: hang up and call back. Skype will forward a number of times, i.e. one phone, another phone number and then your cell phone, if you want.

It appears that Skype is cheaper than Vonage, but haven't had either service long enough to say authoritively.

lizard lips - 11-13-2005 at 06:20 PM

Vonage is the only way to go. I have saved over $300.00 per month on my bill.

Im just waiting for the day that Telnor screws it up!

Skype Using DirecWay ?

MrBillM - 11-13-2005 at 06:23 PM

Is anyone successfully using Skype via Direcway ? I am not all that pleased with Crystal Voice on DirecWay and was wondering if Skype is any better.

wornout - 11-13-2005 at 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
Does vonage have the time delay skype has? k :?:

SKYPE does NOT have a delay. Satellite systems have a delay.

If you are on a dish, you're gonna get propagation delay, unless of course the satellite system you are using has built in correction for this. They don't, and won't, build it in for SKYPE because SKYPE is not their VOIP product.

If you are on a good dialup connection (more than 31 kbps) or DSL, SKYPE will work fine. I have used it for over a year on both and it has worked very well.

SKYPE WILL have a delay if one is doing a lot of down or up loading while on a SKYPE call.

CaboMagic - 11-13-2005 at 10:50 PM

Hi Keri,

Check your U2U ...

Lori

Delay

MrBillM - 11-14-2005 at 10:15 AM

The Delay, of course, is simple physics as a result of a 50K miles roundtrip for each transmission. ANY system utilizing satellites is going to be subject to a delay.

The additional factor that results from using DirecWay is the poor upload characteristics. I have seen my upload speeds drop as low as 19Kbps. The Crystal Voice actually works better on a home dialup since the connection speed in both directions is usually above 40Kbps. The problems (other than delay) that I encounter with Crystal Voice is the erratic voice quality and momentary breakups. It is quite possible that this is ALL related to the variance in upload speeds during the call. Having nothing to compare it with, I am assuming. I've downloaded the Skype install file and am going to go ahead and try it. At least that way, I can compare the two services during the same time period and conditions.

wornout - 11-14-2005 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by wornout

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
Does vonage have the time delay skype has? k :?:

How on earth do they do that? Have they finally figured out how to increase the speed of light? These scientists... :wow:

--Larry

No, they have figured out how to decrease the speed of dark. :spingrin:

I am not a scientist but I would guess they somehow buffer a stream of data and present it in bursts. Twenty years ago, I worked for a grocery chain and we tried to send / receive grocery data between Oakland, CA and El Paso, TX. More or less our computer system said, 'here is some data' and then started sending the data. About 10 seconds into our transmit, the other end said, 'OK, send'. Well, the sending was already going on. Anyhow, here we are 20 years later and people all over have Starband and DirectWay. They figured it out for data and that is why I say I am sure they do something similar for voice.

wornout - 11-14-2005 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The Delay, of course, is simple physics as a result of a 50K miles roundtrip for each transmission. ANY system utilizing satellites is going to be subject to a delay.

The additional factor that results from using DirecWay is the poor upload characteristics. I have seen my upload speeds drop as low as 19Kbps. The Crystal Voice actually works better on a home dialup since the connection speed in both directions is usually above 40Kbps. The problems (other than delay) that I encounter with Crystal Voice is the erratic voice quality and momentary breakups. It is quite possible that this is ALL related to the variance in upload speeds during the call. Having nothing to compare it with, I am assuming. I've downloaded the Skype install file and am going to go ahead and try it. At least that way, I can compare the two services during the same time period and conditions.

This nice thing about SKYPE is you get a chat feature. You can see which chat users in your contact list are online. What I do here in San Felipe, to the few users we know who have SKYPE and a satellite system, is use the chat feature with them. If we decide we need to talk to them, we hit the call button. Sometimes it works pretty good and sometimes it doesn't, it just depends.

Chat ??

MrBillM - 11-14-2005 at 06:09 PM

There are few things I like less than "chatting" with ANYONE on the telephone. If I make a phone call, it has a purpose.

This is something that is a recurrent sore point between myself and others, especially family members. They never get a call from me and, usually, I don't pick up calls from them. I restrict my social intercourse to in person conversations, letters or e-mails. Up in the U.S., I use my answering machine to screen ALL calls. I will never pick up a phone unless I know who's on it. Awhile back, I had a friend who told me that he could never catch me at home. He was always getting my voicemail or answering machine. I replied that he could tell I was at home if he got the answering machine. If not, he would get the voicemail.

Obviously, the "Chat" feature would not be a selling point for me. My "Contact" list would be empty.

bajalou - 11-14-2005 at 06:41 PM

The "Chat " feature Wornout is talking about is by typing the conversation, not talking if the voice feature isn't acceptable.

wrk - 11-14-2005 at 08:29 PM

I do believe one has to be on a computer to use skype. Vonage - while of course connected thru the DSL line - does not interfere with nor require the computer to be in use. Have experienced minimal delay - unlike skype. I find Skype only works well for me if I am calling someone who is also using skype on their computer - not so good with computer to phone. And you can choose any kind of phone for vonage - don't need a head set connected to the computer.

Bajabus - 11-14-2005 at 08:32 PM

there a two principle way the big sat folks , For instance Gilat which is a world leader in sat telephony, do voip.

Contention rates or how loaded a transponder is. commercial services have low contention rates so that it is easy to get a TX slot, residential and SOHO have much higher contention rates. Do a ping test of 100 pings or a continuous ping and you can see that direcway and starband are all over the place...from about 650 ms to as high as 3000 or more. if you notice they seem to jump in about 500ms sections and this is a clear indication the TX missed a slot and had to wait for another.

On commercial services the ping times are pretty consistently in the 600 to 750 ms range and rarely do they go higher.

Next is digital compression. Within the first few seconds the data is compressed and buffered with proprietary protocols.

So how much do these services cost. Spacenet has a voip/INTERNET package for about $180 per month and 2 K for the equipment. The quality is excellent and it comes with guaranteed SLA's. you notice the about .5 sec delay in the beginning of the conversation but then it almost disappears as the compression kicks in.

it's 512Kbps up and 1.5 Mb down

Starband is supposed to be coming out with a stripped down version of the Spacenet SE modem that is on the commercial side of the network but who knows when that will happen.

I am going to Washington tomorrow to Spacenet/Starband HQ for a 2 day demo of new upcoming products and will keep y'all posted if there is something new and reasonable for cost conscious Baja residents.

BTW Spacenet and Starband are now the same company

[Edited on 15-11-2005 by Bajabus]

[Edited on 15-11-2005 by Bajabus]

It's ALL Data

MrBillM - 11-14-2005 at 08:42 PM

The Analog voice stream is converted to Digital Data PACKETS. While software could "possibly" minimize the delay problem, SOME Delay will ALWAYS exist because of the 50K mile distance involved. No science (maybe science fiction ?) can overcome the laws of Physics. My only question has been "Does Skype do a better job of minimizing that delay and avoiding dropouts than does Crystal Voice on DirecWay. I'll have the answer to that by this weekend when I can try both under the same conditions.

Dave - 11-14-2005 at 11:36 PM

I have Starband and have tried 'em all. They all have delay.

Bajabus - 11-15-2005 at 01:48 AM

All I'm saying is that ping times (latency) has a huge effect also on voip. It's not just the upload bandwidth or lack of.

Bajabus - 11-15-2005 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by BajabusIf you notice they seem to jump in about 500ms sections and this is a clear indication the TX missed a slot and had to wait for another.

Interesting. You happen to know how do satellite systems handle contention?

Quote:

Spacenet has a voip/INTERNET package for about $180 per month and 2 K for the equipment. The quality is excellent and it comes with guaranteed SLA's.

What's an SLA?

Quote:

you notice the about .5 sec delay in the beginning of the conversation but then it almost disappears as the compression kicks in.

Curious. I don't understand how compression reduces delays. There's still the time lag it takes from when you say something to its travelling all that distance to the satellite and back down to me, then another delay after I figure out how to respond and shoot it back to you. Maybe I need to rethink what really causes the subjective impression of delays...

Thanks for the interesting info-- Larry

Contention is the rate at which the transponders bandwidth is over sold. They figure not everyone is going to be on at the same time so there is some leeway. On a shared resource time slots for uploads are available in regular intervals. You make a request and get the next available slot. Now on commercial services the ratio is anywhere from 60 to 1 and as high as 100 to 1. on Starband and direcway they are on the order of 200 to 1. During times of heavy usage the slots are in heavy use and it is not uncommon to miss a slot and have to wait anywhere from 500 ms to 4000 ms for the next one to be available. It depends on the interleaving scheme being used by the inbound carrier. On a starband software disk if you open one of the config ini files you will see the interleaving value for a particular transponder and network segment called out.

Compression as it was explained to me takes advantage of pauses in the conversation to buffer and shoot down at once large segments. somehow it all evens out. exactly how they do it I don't know but the trick is to make it appear seamless. each voip company has it's own proprietary compression codecs that they jealously guard.

SLA's stands for service level agreements

Bajabus - 11-16-2005 at 11:33 AM

Lencho, I'm at Spacenet HQ for the next few days, let me see if I can get a PDF that describes it or if it's on the web anywhere.

LarryB - 12-2-2005 at 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Being sure of something without any direct evidence. I like it. We could patent this... let's call it... ummm... religion! :light:

Larry

LOL, Sorry Larry, it's already called faith. Without it, in some form, you wouldn't even get out of bed in the morning.
:spingrin:

Larry

Bruce R Leech - 12-3-2005 at 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
Trying to find something that we can use for the hotel and something my mother can call. Seems vonage gives you a stateside number is that correct. Does vonage have the time delay skype has? k :?:

Bajalou, got your message. deleted other post. it was in the wrong forum.

adjust your setting and have a good headset or cordless phone and you wont get the delay