BajaNomad - The ultimate example of Hypocracy.

The ultimate example of Hypocracy.

Minnow - 10-31-2003 at 09:49 AM

This is a quote for the Nomad suggestions and comments page. In is Nomad quotes me and offers a rebuttal. It is the same post leading a thread that M deleted. If it was so offending as to be deleted, why was it offered in quotes on another section on this very site. Doug, take a look.

Minnow

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Minnow
It's funny how I can post an opinion, with no name calling or hysterical ranting, and it be deleted. Why? For no other reason than it is different than the board moderator...

...I hope you all out there are taking notice. Unless your views are the same as those "in control" here, you will be censored. There is no free exchange of ideas. Only those of one group.

Deleted

Baja Red - 10-31-2003 at 10:22 AM

Minnow, I am with you. It just happened to me the other day and I wondered where my post/rebuttal went. It was deleted by someone that wanted to erase my response and was allowed to.

Managers

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 11:21 AM

No offense to Doug whatsoever but does this come as a surprise ?

Minnow - 10-31-2003 at 11:56 AM

I'm not blaming Doug. In the times we have spoke he comes off as a super nice guy. My problem is with allowing M to moderate. There is no moderation in her moderating.

Moderating

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 12:00 PM

That's why we moved away from Laguna Niguel. Too much "earthtone" and lack of individuality.

Well, I guess I have to agree on that one.

Stephanie Jackter - 10-31-2003 at 12:39 PM

And now am wondering what else I might not have seen that's been deleted. I hate to wind up defending someone who despises me, but unless we defend equal rights to everybody, we all run the risk of losing our own.

The quoted post was angry, but should have not been chucked. It was an opinion, not a slam.

Unfortunately, boards do change, often according to the whim of the moderators. I never got deleted ONCE off of Fred's board, having participated there civily for two or three years, untill Tim and Wild Bill started moderating. Now I'm lucky if I see one out of three posts get left on the board. If the post contains my opinion, whether it's non commercial and Baja related or not, it usually gets slammed cause I'm of a different political bent than those doing the moderating.

The recent post by Tim under my "Great big Public Thank You" thread thanking me out of one side of his mouth and calling me an unwelcomed name out of the other and the complete lack of a response from a private letter I wrote to Fred with my concerns about having a post with govt. contacts to write to try to save the dolphins deleted, made me decide I'll only post there when I really need to from now on. As long as you're talking about the best place to buy tamales, you're "in like flint". Talk about an injustice having to do with tourism, that might gore someone's political ox and get ready to be "out".

I've never posted on Bajanet , but I've peeked a little and find most of my most vocal critics making a home there. Would I be welcomed there? Hmmm. That's a good question. Because I haven't posted there yet, I'll try not to judge, but I can't help but have my suspicions.

I hope it's not lost in the noise that a lot of the same people who now seem to have no problem communicating with me here were just happy as clams to see me, not edited or deleted, but kicked completely off the Amigos board for being no more vocal than I am here. And I haven't heard one apology to date from any of the ones who made that mistake, including you, Minnow. Not one of you stood up to tell the moderator there that you felt it was the wrong thing to do. And the one's who did got kicked off with me.

Some may ask why I keep bringing it up? Can't I let by-gones be by-gones? Well, you know, I could. But the injustice of it has never, to this day, been acknowledged by any of those who ganged up to get me thrown off or simply participated by throwing personal jabs every time I put up a post. Untill that happens, the ghost will be here haunting.

I urge the moderators here to PLEASE be moderate on this board. It is what will attract people to feel they can speak freely instead of feeling forced to just lurk or go some place else. I understand that Minnow did self edit the name calling post he put up against me. I saw the Santiago Zoo posts and although I thought it was p-poor timeing on his part to ask about the zoo fund when she was watching for fire leaping toward her house, jeans' response and his response to her were quite civil and should not have been deleted.

I didn't see some of the rest of the stuff that was deleted, but have confidence that if mild mannered Mike Humphreville is complaining, there's probably some heavy handedness on the button.

I have been very proud to be associated with this board over the past year or so I've been posting, enjoying the good company of those who either opted off or got kicked off the Amigos board with me and enjoying even more the wide variety of opinions, beliefs, news, recipies, etc. that the board has to offer. Let's please just keep it civil and open to opinions whether they are popular and sweet ones or not. It is the respect for the unpopular opinion that supposedly makes us the great society we are. Please be respectful of that , whoever's doing the moderation.

I love Mexico, but I say things here that could probably get me found dead on a street corner if I espoused them in Mexico City. I value the opportunity that this country gives me to say what I feel is right. And a tiny part of that should be the right to tell the moderators here that I feel they've done wrong. I hope that will be respected.

If not, it's not like I haven't been given the boot before.......I've kind of gotten used to it.

Happy Halloween everybody. This ghost has to carve some pumpkins and take some other punkins out trick r treating. - Stephanie

[Edited on 10-31-2003 by Stephanie Jackter]

Stephanie.....try switching to decaf....

capt. mike - 10-31-2003 at 01:39 PM

it's done wonders for me!!

still love that Hunter S. sign off, though......

Skeet/Loreto - 10-31-2003 at 03:25 PM

Capt. Mike: Am I reading right or wrong. Are you having a Heart problem??Pressure??
Any way I just had a 90% blockage and 2 more small ones taken care of last week. Its a milk walk.
Hope you are O. K.

This battle over the thread and the deletes reminds me of the best fight I ever had the honor to observe.
It happened in front of the Lodge and Bar in Datil New Mexico. I was a 10 year old kid on a wild turkey hunt with my Uncle.
To lakies started out in the bar exited the structure and rolled in the mud, the Blood and the Beer for a good half hour.
The squealing,crying,blouse shredding,hair pulling, spitting,biting gouging,kicking finally ended with both LADIES out on the ground.Skeet/Loreto

Catterwalling

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 03:30 PM

Skeet, this babble can't hold a candle to a true show like the one you described. Think we could start the first annual Catterwallin fest right here in Baja from members on here ? The beach is much softer here than that Tejas ground. Cheap Tequila to get em started with too. :lol:

Too Late

jeans - 10-31-2003 at 04:37 PM

This was from the last Viva Baja Party.
M & I got into a fight over Neal Johns.

It got ugly... :lol:

Atta girlz

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 04:45 PM

Now that's more like it !

Minnow - 10-31-2003 at 05:03 PM

Stephanie, I do not despise you. Actually, I have come to respect you in many ways. I may not agree with you all the time, but do more than you know. So there. Tom

hey Skeet, naw... ticker I think is fine.

capt. mike - 11-1-2003 at 06:31 AM

have a few other minor things getting fixed right now. I should be fine, thx for asking. Now lets plan on getting to Loreto soon to visit Jorge!

Bob and Susan - 11-1-2003 at 06:37 AM

Mike

Take care....
Enjoy as much as you can...
Good luck
Wish we could fly.... :yes:

Stepford wives

Ski Baja - 11-2-2003 at 09:43 AM

seem to be the ones running the show here now. Too bad.
Here goes another good board. Thanks ladies. You've done it again.

jeans - 11-2-2003 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ski Baja
seem to be the ones running the show here now. Too bad.
Here goes another good board. Thanks ladies. You've done it again.

I removed the Guadalupe Canyon thread because it had degraded seriously.

Your "N" word epitaph directed at M was the last straw.

That "N" word

Ski Baja - 11-2-2003 at 10:25 AM

Was a phrase used by all of us wnen we lived there and is still in use today. C's son's were both born and raised there. The youngest is now 27, married and still lives there. We also have a good amount of friends who still live there. They lived there before it bacame "Stepford Territory" and still have open minds with senses of humor. I don't expect that on this board anymore.

I believe it was you and Minnow that STARTED this mess.

M - 11-2-2003 at 11:51 AM

If you don't want the consequences of being mean to people than stop writing it. If you think I am going to buy into your guilt trip regarding the deletion of posts, forget that to. They were deleted because a number of people requested that I do so. AND, While I find this whole thread rude and offensive I have left it up. IF I get e-mails asking me to remove it...I will. Another reason it is left up is because it sharply points out the nature of your integrity and personality. I couldn't have done a better job myself if my intent was to hurt or humiliate you. Have a nice day boys...M

Minnow - 11-2-2003 at 12:17 PM

In my opinion M it was you that started this mess by deleting posts that were contrary to your view. It was wrong to write something so negative about Guadalupe Canyon based on one visit. It was down right hypocritical in light of the fact that you and Jeans were some of its biggest promoters. Does it not matter to you that you two singlehandidly cost those people business? And all over a trash can that was too full. It may come as a surprise to you but sometimes life gets in the way, like the things canyon rob wrote to you about, and despite peoples best intentions they can't put their best foot forward. If you decide to write something like that in the future you had better be prepaired to back it up and not just delete every desenting post that comes along or more messes will happen.

Why are you attacking Ski Baja? Oh yea, he has an opinion different from yours, but he didn't start ANYTHING.

If so many people wrote to you asking posts to be deleted, why didn't they come to your support during this. It's just you Jeans and David, or are my suspicions correct that they were the only ones who wrote you. You write of character, It is also time for you to come clean about how many posts of mine and others you did actually delete.

And don't think your Have a nice day BOYS slight is unnoticed. More of your hypocracy.

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Minnow]

Minnow,

M - 11-2-2003 at 01:32 PM

If you had payed attention to my posts, you would have caught that DK never wrote me at all. Neither did Jeans, she called me to ask if I had seen your post. As for the others, they are smart enough not to get involved, but were still offended enough to write me. I DELETED POSTS BECAUSE I WAS REQUESTED TO DO SO. If I delete posts that offend ME, this thread would have been gone long ago.Your harrasing the messenger is plain dumb. As for my experience in GC, that opinion was shared by all, not just me, and it was not "because the trash cans were full".u] Another reason this thread is left up is because it sharply points out the nature of your integrity and personality. I couldn't have done a better job myself if my intent was to hurt or humiliate you. ...M

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by M]

David K - 11-2-2003 at 01:41 PM

I have never contacted M to remove a post, never.

If you think jeans, M, and GeoRock are the only complainers... then go see the new post on Fred's board!

Guadalupe Canyon is a wonderful place... but, Arturo Loya cannot be expected to do all the maintenance, alone.

Nothing posted on this board will ever put Guadalupe Canyon out of business... Only their lack of doing fair buisness and poor campground maintanance can hurt them.

I am sure the goal of posting the truth of what is found there (or anywhere else) is only to cause the problem to get fixed for everyone's benefit, not to put them out of business, as you think.

For $75/ night, I think one should expect to get the camp they reserved and the filth & trash from the previous occupants be removed. Neither was the case.

Again, this complaint is not limited to the Baja gals from Nomad... go to Fred's board. Will you reply to that person in the same manner as you have here?

[Edited on 11-2-2003 by David K]

Minnow

jeans - 11-2-2003 at 02:09 PM

Minnow...your buddies on the other board are telling you to drop it. That you are wasting you time here. Listen to them.

One even said that you stepped over the line at Cielto Feo (I think he meant Lindo).

That is in referrence to the attacks you started after the first BBBB in June 2001.

It began as anonymous posts stating the women were ruining the board. It got real ugly until M busted you by matching up IP numbers. You apologized then but obviously this has been festering ever since.

You stated in an U2U that it was your belief that we ruined Amigos and you were "not going to let that happen here". Sounds like a personal vendetta to me. (The reason for the accusatory Santiago Zoo thread that you removed after my cheery response did not serve your purpose).

I firmly believe that if my Guadalupe Canyon post had been posted by anyone else other than M & myself, this would have passed on into obscurity.

If your concern for Arturo & family and their future business is sincere, why are you not confronting an ever worse accusation on Fred's board? (or mine, for that matter.) The reason of course, is that you could not get away with your garbage there.

Listen to your buddies, Minnow....give it up.

[Edited on 11-2-2003 by jeans]

Minnow - 11-2-2003 at 02:11 PM

For some reason M you still insist on the name calling. Is is so hard for you to post without the name calling? You are supposed to be the moderator and set an example. How can you justify deleting posts by saying, others requested I delete them, and then turn around and call people names. That is hypocracy, and everyone here sees it. So don't worry about what others are thinking of me, worry about yourself.

David you miss my point entirely, as usual. I didn't protest the Bajababes point. I objected to the fact that M deleted my posts that questioned why they would fry a place they previously touted.

Why do you and M and Jeans insist on distorting what I wrote. Now that M has been repremanded by Doug and she can't just go and delete my posts, it's going to be much harder for you folks to keep spreading your lies.

Cost them business and Put them out of business are two very different things, just more of your spin doctoring I guess.

Jeans, I removed the Zoo thread after I read the nasty U2U you sent me. If you rememder, I too wrote a nice response to your "Cheery" answer. If you wanted me to leave it up, why did you send me such an angry message?

More lies Jeans. I didn't make my comments annonymously after the first BBBB. Remember the stink you guys raised by constantly creating threads related to it, we lost a lot of good posters during that period, well some of the disenters were there and all I posted was that some felt the Women, thats mostly you and M were responsible for Amigos being less information based and more Clique based. Looking back, I couldn't have been more correct. My appology consisted of saying I was sorry to M if my comment detracted from her "work" to put the gathering together.

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Minnow]

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Minnow]

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Minnow]

Ski Baja - 11-2-2003 at 02:34 PM

OK Minnow, see thread under "vehicles in Baja". I hate when "remember when you blah blah blah" is brought up. This me thinks, is getting a little out of hand and we are all looking fairly Gringo like. And since the Board is supposed to be Baja related, we are all showing a very un-Baja like attitude.
What if the Mexicans are watching ? We will be wondering why they are snickering even harder than they already were !
And for those of you expecting something different than the service you get here, try somewhere else.

M - 11-2-2003 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Why do you and M and Jeans insist on distorting what I wrote. Now that M has been repremanded by Doug and she can't just go and delete my posts, it's going to be much harder for you folks to keep spreading your lies.

FIRSTLY, Minnow, WHAT NAME DID I CALL YOU? Have you forgotten that we can all re-read what I wrote and NOWHERE in there is a derogitory name I called you.
AS FOR MY BEING REPRIMANDED BY DOUG, you must be drunk! Doug e-mailed me and said I was doing fine and fair. As for my power to moderate, care to get a little nastier? a little more personal? I will be happy to 'moderate' for you. I have asked you to drop this rant yet you keep on ranting. You know, there are other boards that share your opinions, I would think you would be happier there. I have recieved another 3 e-mails since this morning offering support and telling me not to be hurt. Not a problem, I am not hurt at all, I'm simply considering the source. As long as you continue making stuff up I am finding your gall to be amuseing. Remember, ANYONE can re-read yours or my posts yet you continue to insist I said or did something that is not there, or true. Minnow, don't you have it in you to just leave it alone? I continue to ask nicely that you drop this thing, but actually, I am just as guilty for responding....actually, this will be my last response...and warning. I will start editing anything in this thread that is not Baja related, or, you can leave it alone, and so will I. The ball is in your court. M

BajaNomad - 11-2-2003 at 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
In my opinion M it was you that started this mess by deleting posts that were contrary to your view.

From all the information I'm getting back, although there was information contrary to the main post, there were also personal darts aimed at people as well, which is simply not okay. Although it would be nice for a moderator to go in and edit your post and just leave the valid rebuttal portion, there's no stipulation or requirement that they have to spend the time to do that. If a posting violates the guidelines here, it may be deleted. Simple as that. You're an intelligent person, and I'm certain you are aware of this.

Quote:

It was wrong to write something so negative about Guadalupe Canyon based on one visit. It was down right hypocritical in light of the fact that you and Jeans were some of its biggest promoters.

I wholly disagree. If someone has a good experience and recommends a travel destination, their responsibility is to those they give the recommendations to, not the operators of the destinations/establishments themselves. In fact, if a "reviewer" has ties with an establishment, how "unbiased" is their review? This is when it becomes unethical.

Quote:

Does it not matter to you that you two singlehandidly cost those people business? And all over a trash can that was too full. It may come as a surprise to you but sometimes life gets in the way, like the things canyon rob wrote to you about, and despite peoples best intentions they can't put their best foot forward.

If business is lost, it's not the because of the reviewers, it's because of the management. Don't shift the blame. Everyone here hopes that future GC reports are glowing in their satisfaction.

Quote:

Why are you attacking Ski Baja?

Did I miss something here?

Quote:

If so many people wrote to you asking posts to be deleted, why didn't they come to your support during this.

Because there are many people here that do not wish to be confrontational, nor a target of criticism. They do however, visit here often. I know from the amount of visitors, versus posters here. There are MANY viewers (in 'net lingo: "lurkers") here that read a LOT, and post only so often. And they're not afraid of using the "report" button to let us know of posts they want us to review. A big thanks to all of YOU.

Quote:

Now that M has been repremanded by Doug and she can't just go and delete my posts, it's going to be much harder for you folks to keep spreading your lies.

I remain very confident in M's ability to be a fair moderator. No reprimand has taken place.

Quote:

Jeans, I removed the Zoo thread...

I however, am disappointed in both you and Jeans for removing threads from the board that many others had spent time contributing to. If there were particular posts that you were concerned with, then you should've used the "report" button as well. Now you've removed content that others value, and alienated both of yourselves in the process.... and that's my $.02 worth.

For those that don't know: If you start a thread and then delete your original post, it'll delete the whole thread. Both Minnow and Jeans did so having this knowledge.

This thread too has run its course and will be closed.

Regards,
--
Doug Means

[Edited on 11-2-2003 by BajaNomad]