BajaNomad - What are these from?

What are these from?

Cardon - 3-19-2006 at 06:26 PM

A little challenge.
What plant are these beautiful seeds from?

Bob and Susan - 3-19-2006 at 06:38 PM

Candy Corn? :lol:

Paula - 3-19-2006 at 07:19 PM

I have no idea what they REALLY are, but back in the day we called them 'eyes of awareness'...

very good things to have in a mojo.

HotSchott - 3-21-2006 at 06:06 PM

Seeds from a carrotwood tree.

Just Wondering

MrBillM - 3-21-2006 at 06:09 PM

What possible Value is there to knowing the Answer ?

David K - 3-21-2006 at 06:12 PM

How about if you want to grow that kind of tree from seed, and don't trust the seed vendor? :rolleyes:

woody with a view - 3-21-2006 at 06:16 PM

sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone have a method to germinate the blue palm seeds i got from the wet arroyo crossing H1 at catavina? anyone ever have success?

Don Alley - 3-21-2006 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
What possible Value is there to knowing the Answer ?

Well, I can attest that knowing they are good for a mojo helped get Paula an arguably decent marriage, an early retirement, and a place in Montana and Baja.

:lol:

bajajudy - 3-21-2006 at 06:52 PM

Paula
How aware did you become?

elizabeth - 3-21-2006 at 07:12 PM

They used to call them Sandinista seeds in Nicaragua, and carve little Sandinos and Ches on them. They are deadly, however, they are reputed to be used as a contraceptive and aphrodisiac...a very useful combination.

Here's what they really are:

Abrus precatorius, called colorine in Mexico

Woody

Sonora Wind - 3-21-2006 at 07:17 PM

Put the palm seeds in a 3lb coffee can about 1/3 to 1/2 full. Add 1/2 to 3/4 inch gravel till your about 3/4 full. Put the lid on and shake for about 5 minutes. Fill the can with water and let set for 24 hours. Make up a decomposed granite/ mulch/ perlite potting mix 1/3 1/3 1/3. Place seeds in the mix about 1 1/2" to 2" deep. Water once deep soak. Then lightly when soil had dried. Should cook up in about two weeks.

I've never done blues, but back in my nursery days Robustas and Fliferas worked great that way. By the way no chilling required. :cool:

Bob and Susan - 3-21-2006 at 07:26 PM

we have 4 carrotwood trees and the seeds are not red here...

Frank - 3-21-2006 at 07:35 PM

I need Mojo baby....

Paula - 3-21-2006 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

How aware did you become?

Aaahhhhh....... unfortunately not aware enough to come up with a good answer to this question....

but yet more aware than I had been....

HotSchott - 3-22-2006 at 07:56 AM

Woody,

The blue fan palms (Brahea Armata) can be germinated in any container with a mixture of sand and soil about 2-inches deep. The seeds need to be kept warm (like 80-degrees or more) and they should be kept covered or in the dark and moist, but not soaked. I have germinated hundreds, but they are very finicky and take from 6 months to a year to pop. Those suckers are hard and love the heat. They probably pop faster in the desert, but in SD it takes summer temps. The Brahea is one of the slowest growing palms I have ever seen.

Steve

Taco de Baja - 3-22-2006 at 08:46 AM

They look like coral tree seeds Erythrina sp. I remember collecting them as a kid 'cause I thought they were cool, I filled up several jars with seeds. The ones I collected were all one color though from red to orange red. the trees have spines all over the trunk and branches, which made collecting a challange. Accordinng to the attached link though there are 122-116 different species throughout the world......

Coral Tree Link

[Edited on 3-22-2006 by Taco de Baja]

Bob H - 3-22-2006 at 10:12 AM

That is most definately seeds from a carrotwood tree. I had one in my front yard and took it out because of those seeds germinating every year by the thousands in my lawn. Here is a web site that shows the seed pods on the tree.
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/cuan1.htm
Bob H

Natalie Ann - 3-22-2006 at 10:22 AM

Craig - Those are beautiful seeds. Would you be willing to send me about a pint of 'em to use in my art? Of course I would pay the cost to send. I'd love to grow the tree, but live in a coastal area and they're too invasive a species to invite into my garden.

[Edited on 3-22-2006 by Natalie Ann]

elizabeth - 3-22-2006 at 10:26 AM

I'm sticking with abrus precatorius. Carrotwood seeds are black with fleshy red stuff. Check this wehttp://www.luckymojo.com/redbeans.htmlbsite:

Cardon - 3-22-2006 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
Craig - Those are beautiful seeds. Would you be willing to send me about a pint of 'em to use in my art? Of course I would pay the cost to send. I'd love to grow the tree, but live in a coastal area and they're too invasive a species to invite into my garden.

[Edited on 3-22-2006 by Natalie Ann]

Sorry Natalie I only have two seeds and I don't know where I put them. Frizkie and I found them while walking around Auga Caliente area, not by the hot springs but on private ground. I let her keep the seeds as she wanted to make a necklace. I don't think they are Coral Tree seeds but rather they are as Elizabeth says are abrus pecatorius or rhynchosia precatorius and from what I have read on the net they are one of the deadliest seeds on earth. One seed can kill an adult.
As we looked for the seeds we found them in different areas of the property but could never figure out what plant they came from.Frizkie looked them up in her Plants of Baja California book by Roberts and it said they were called Negritos or Oja de Pajarito . Roberts said they came from a vine.When I got home to look it up again in my copy of his book I couldn't find them in the book. I have a first edition and was wondering if they only appeared in a later addition.

elizabeth - 3-22-2006 at 11:22 AM

I just checked both editions of the field guide that I have. The old one didn't have the seeds, but the latest one does. Roberts says they are Rhynchosia pyramidalis...vine like low shrub. I'm wondering if there aren't different species of the plant that have red and black seeds??? The latin names should not be so different...who's a botanist around here?

Natalie Ann - 3-22-2006 at 11:27 AM

Well, Craig, if there is someone else wearing those seeds as necklace, I'm glad it's my friend Barbi. Guess I'll have to look for my own. :light:

My friend has a coral tree and the seeds do not have that black on them... a tiny dot on some of the seeds, and seeds themselves are not as polished in appearance. I think Elizabeth's got it right.

Rhynchosia pyramidalis

Dave - 3-22-2006 at 11:43 AM

Correct!

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon
Frizkie looked them up in her Plants of Baja California book by Roberts and it said they were called Negritos or Oja de Pajarito . Roberts said they came from a vine.When I got home to look it up again in my copy of his book I couldn't find them in the book. I have a first edition and was wondering if they only appeared in a later addition.

Page 191 of the field guide. They are legumes.

Bob H - 3-22-2006 at 02:41 PM

Check out this photo of a seed pod from a carrotwood tree

http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/carrotwood.jpg

Cupaniopsis anacardioides

Those little red and black seeds come three to a pod. These are identical to the ones in the first photo on this thread.

Bob H - 3-22-2006 at 02:45 PM

And yet another photo...

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/54262553

woody with a view - 3-22-2006 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

I have germinated hundreds, but they are very finicky and take from 6 months to a year to pop. Those suckers are hard and love the heat. They probably pop faster in the desert, but in SD it takes summer temps.

i don't think i'll get 6-12 months of 80 degree heat at the beach!!! i'll give it another month before i start. BTW, should i remove the husks??? or will they be viable right off the vine???

Bob and Susan - 3-22-2006 at 04:34 PM

bob h may be correct....

where's the correct answer

Bob H - 3-22-2006 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
I just checked both editions of the field guide that I have. The old one didn't have the seeds, but the latest one does. Roberts says they are Rhynchosia pyramidalis...vine like low shrub. I'm wondering if there aren't different species of the plant that have red and black seeds??? The latin names should not be so different...who's a botanist around here?

I think now that these are the seeds from Rhynchosia pyramidalis - they are sooooo similar looking to the carrotwood tree seeds. Here's a great photo I found... of five of these seed from the R. pyradidalis...

http://www.erowid.org/plants/show_image.php?i=other/rhynchos...

There are also other species of the Rhynchosia that also have similar seeds.

Bob H

Cardon - 3-22-2006 at 04:59 PM

This link should bring you up to item #6
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0901.htm#coral

The first photo has a bunch of seeds and the seeds that Barb and I found look like either E F or H

Read on to item #7 and you can read about Abrus Precatorius
and the photo there is what they really look like.

Just don't eat them if you should find them and keep them away from kids.

Bob H - 3-22-2006 at 07:15 PM

The stem of the seeds in the first photo is attached to the red part so I think we can settle it that way. Wow, what an interesting thread.
Bob H

HotSchott - 3-22-2006 at 07:57 PM

Woody,
Yea, remove the husks. Usually the rats in the desert eat the husks and leave the nut. You must have gotten fresh seed from the ground or picked them off a tree?

Last year was a banner year for palm seeds because of all the rain in Northern Baja. Loads of critters eat the husks, but I have never seen anything eat one of those seeds. Try and smash one with a hammer sometime and you will know what I mean! PS: Wear goggles

$$

bajalera - 3-23-2006 at 05:03 PM

Maximino Martinez's big Plantas Mexicanas says local names for Abrus precatorius are peonia, oxoak, semilla de culebra, and four variations of xoxoak--but has all of these as native to Yucatan.

His little book on a 1945 trip to Baja has the scientific name for colorin as Erythrina flabellifornia Kearn.

Not that any of this is helpful.

Rhynochosia pyramidalis seeds

Taco de Baja - 3-24-2006 at 08:52 AM

Since the link above did not work for me, maybe not for others too. Here is a pasted in photo from the same site

[Edited on 3-24-2006 by Taco de Baja]

Pappy Jon - 3-24-2006 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

i don't think i'll get 6-12 months of 80 degree heat at the beach!!! i'll give it another month before i start. BTW, should i remove the husks??? or will they be viable right off the vine???

My experience with blue palm is you need to give them lots of time. Time to get the first leaf, and more from then on. I've seen palms take up to a year to germinate. California and Mexican fan palm (Washingtonia sp.) were two exceptions.

I currently have a few Brahea brandegii (sp?) that I'm going to sow. Plants I received from UCLA about 15 years ago are still small, and they are growing in the Palm Springs area (for those in CA they are at The Living Desert in Palm Desert, west side of the Palm Garden off the plaza). My plan is to sow them, then forget they are in the greenhouse until the horticulturist threatens to toss them.

Plant the seeds in deep pots. That sucka is going to put on a long tap root and you don't want to disturb it. I've grown doom palms from Africa in small trash cans.

HotSchott - 3-25-2006 at 07:44 AM

Pappy,

I forgot about that tap root! I germinated my blue fan palms in nursury flats with a piece of newspaper on the bottom and about two inches of sand & soil mix. After they popped and put up a shoot, I used a BBQ fork and delicately separated them and planted the whole bunch in one-gallon nursery cans, being careful not to separate the seed from the plant as it seems they continue to draw nutrients for some time from the nut. After about two years they got moved to five-gallon cans and the roots were over six-feet long coiled up in the can! I could not believe it as the plants only have six or eight fronds. I guess that is what it takes to survive in a place where the only moisture in August is way down into sand and rock. It is amazing what a little beauty comes out of that concrete ball bearing.

As for Washingtonias, throw a handful of seeds on the sidewalk and they will grow in the cracks in a month! That plant is a weed.

$$

Hottshot

Sonora Wind - 3-26-2006 at 03:23 PM

I've never grown the Blues, but in my nursery days in Vegas did thousands X ? of Mexs and Cals. I always scarafied and soaked the seeds. I would guess that if the seed was that tuff, what might help is a trip through a bird gisird, or a tumble down a wash in a flash flood??? No hard data just an observation. :cool:

Your thoughts :?:

HotSchott - 3-28-2006 at 09:17 AM

SW,

I think you are right on about scarifying. Someone else said the same thing some time ago in another discussion about these seeds.

One of my favorite stories about the canyon ecosystem involves the role of the coyotes in palm groves. So I was told, If the coyotes did not eat the seeds of the Washingtonias, they would have been extinct in the desert. The coyotes eat the sticky seeds from the ground and run back up the canyons, depositing their scat. The germinating seeds produce new trees which repeat the cycle. The trees would all have died out and the seed washed into the desert long ago if the coyotes didn't keep propagating uphill from the original trees.

The blue fan palms seem to provide a meal for several of the rat / rodent species during the peak seed months. They only eat the husk, but I bet some of the seeds get hauled down the burrows. I would be willing to bet some also germinate underground and produce new trees.

$$