BajaNomad - No full recount in Mexico vote

No full recount in Mexico vote

Taco de Baja - 8-5-2006 at 11:38 AM

Not very surprising. Follow the $$

Quote:

Mexico's top electoral court on Saturday rejected a ballot-by-ballot recount in the disputed presidential election, angering supporters of leftist candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador who have kept the nation in turmoil for weeks.

In Mexico's central plaza, thousands of protesters watched the court session on a huge screen, chanting "Vote by vote!" and drowning out the judges' statements. Representatives of Lopez Obrador walked out of the session in protest.

In their first public session on the dispute, the seven judges of the Federal Electoral Court left open the possibility that they could order a partial recount. The tribunal has until Sept. 6 to declare a president-elect or annul the elections.

Lopez Obrador promised to govern for the poor, while Calderon had the backing of the nation's growing middle and elite classes, many of whom want to protect the homes and cars they have been able to buy thanks to falling interest rates.

Article

[Edited on 8-5-2006 by Taco de Baja]

JESSE - 8-5-2006 at 12:15 PM

Here you go Lopez Obrador:moon:

Oso - 8-11-2006 at 06:02 PM

"We should respect Mexico's right to chart its own independent course, provided the course is not antagonistic to our interests."
- Richard Milhaus Nixon

No Point in a Recount

MrBillM - 8-12-2006 at 09:14 AM

Obrador has made it clear time and time again when demanding a FULL recount that an Honest recount would show he was the winner and that any recount that showed different would not be accepted. Given that, they may as well deny the recount and get on with the anarchy that he has planned.

Calderon the Victor

MrBillM - 8-29-2006 at 09:10 AM

The Seven Judges of the Federal Electoral Court issued their final opinion yesterday and, although they stopped short of declaring Calderon the "official" winner, they concluded that the partial recount had shown that an insufficient number of votes would be changed to sway the election results.

Al Gore, oops I mean Obrador, immediately called on his supporters to not accept the results and conduct public protests and disruptions.

S.O.S.D.D.

The lead narrows!! 4183 votes and counting- HAH!

thebajarunner - 8-29-2006 at 09:34 AM

Calderon Moves Closer to Victory in Mexico
A court finds no sign of widespread fraud in a partial recount of the July 2 presidential vote.
By H?ctor Tobar and Sam Enriquez
Times Staff Writers

August 29, 2006

MEXICO CITY ? Mexico's top electoral court announced Monday that a partial recount of the votes in this country's disputed presidential election found no evidence of widespread fraud, a ruling that placed conservative Felipe Calderon tantalizingly close to victory.

In its 7-0 ruling, the Federal Electoral Tribunal rejected the claim by Calderon's leftist opponent, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, that fraud in the ballot count had cost him the July 2 election and said it had found only minor mathematical and administrative errors in the initial tally.

The recount subtracted 4,183 votes from Calderon's margin of victory, reducing it to about 240,000, the judges said.

"This tribunal can say to the citizenry that their votes were counted fairly," said Magistrate Fernando Ojesto. "We have followed the principle of one man, one vote, and of effective suffrage."

The panel has until Sept. 6 to declare an official winner and still could refuse to certify the election. Lopez Obrador contends that President Vicente Fox and business groups illegally aided Calderon's campaign. But most political observers have considered that claim unlikely to prevail.

Lopez Obrador's Democratic Revolution Party, or PRD, "is challenging the quality of the election," said John M. Ackerman, a professor at the Institute for Legal Research at the National Autonomous University of Mexico.

But for the tribunal, Ackerman said, "the question is whether it was a legally valid election ? and today they gave clear signs they are not going to invalidate the election."

The tribunal said the smattering of administrative and mathematical errors in thousands of polling places were not acts of "bad faith" and did not merit throwing out the results of those polling places.

The jurists also rebuked the Lopez Obrador campaign, saying it had failed to provide concrete evidence of irregularities in the thousands of precincts where it had claimed fraud.

"The plaintiff says there are multiple irregularities in a large number of precincts or in this or that district," said Chief Magistrate Leonel Castillo, referring to the Lopez Obrador campaign.

"Well, that 'large number' is not enough. The law says you must specify evidence and facts."

Calderon said the ruling would "eliminate the insidious doubts" his opponents "want to spread among the citizenry."

Lopez Obrador said Monday's ruling was "offensive and unacceptable for millions of Mexicans."

"It represents not only a disgrace in the history of our country but also a violation of the constitutional order and a true coup d'etat," he told hundreds of followers in the capital city's main plaza, the Zocalo, where he has said he will hold a "national assembly" on Sept. 16, Mexico's Independence Day.

Political tension and uncertainty have gripped Mexico for weeks, with the PRD threatening to make the country ungovernable if Calderon becomes president.

This month, the court ordered about 4 million votes recounted but declined the PRD's demand to recount all 41 million votes.

Ackerman said he was surprised by the swiftness of Monday's decision and concerned that the tribunal did not provide more details of its findings.

"If it turns out that some of the PRD claims are right, then there will be some questions about how they are proceeding," Ackerman said.

Todd Eisenstadt, professor of government at the American University in Washington, pointed out that the judges were critical of the boilerplate, "cut and paste" method of the PRD complaint.

Those methods, he said, evoke an earlier era of Mexican electoral disputes, in which legal complaints were filed merely to justify street protests.

"The chances are increasingly remote that the electoral results will be overturned," Eisenstadt said.

"Everything indicates that [Calderon] will be imposed as president," said Leonel Cota, national leader of the PRD.

Outside the tribunal's headquarters, a small number of Lopez Obrador backers protested the ruling, chanting, "The people voted! Obrador won!"

Thousands of supporters of the leftist candidate have occupied much of this capital city's central avenue, Paseo de la Reforma, since July 30, tying up traffic and angering commuters. They have said they will remain in place during Mexico's patriotic celebrations on Sept. 15 and 16.

Fox has said he will defy the leftist protesters and deliver his traditional Independence Day "yell" in the Zocalo on the night of Sept. 15. A military parade is to follow on the next day.

On Monday, Fox made his strongest public condemnation yet of Lopez Obrador and the blockades.

"We can't allow personal ambitions to place at risk the most valuable thing the Mexican people have built ? our laws and institutions," the president said a meeting of fishermen in the northern state of Tamaulipas.

"Society has rejected time and again the path of violence, division and confrontation."

Calderon, a 44-year-old former energy minister under Fox and a longtime activist in the National Action Party, has kept a low profile in recent weeks.

On Monday, National Action Party leaders said the tribunal's ruling was a step forward for Mexico's democratic institutions.

"We have said from the beginning that we will respect the decision of the tribunal," said Juan Molinar Horcasitas, a party spokesman. "All the arguments that have been made to question the cleanliness of this election have been collapsing one by one."

David K - 8-29-2006 at 04:52 PM

Funny how it is that communists only support democracy when they win... if they lose (like AlGore) somebody cheated or made a mistake when they voted!

It is possible that Nixon actually beat Kennedy in 1960, but when asked if he wanted a recount, he declined because he believed it would be too tramatic to the country... Show me a politician that cares that much about his country, today!

Don Alley - 8-29-2006 at 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Funny how it is that communists only support democracy when they win... if they lose (like AlGore) somebody cheated or made a mistake when they voted!

Al Gore is not a communist, neither were his supporters. Nor am I.

I am not sure what you are.

Osprey - 8-29-2006 at 05:45 PM

David,

Name This Forum

BAJA POLITICAL FORUM

Paula - 8-29-2006 at 05:47 PM

David,
I thought you didn't discuss politics on the board because we should "all just get along" and love Baja together.

Do I detect a bit of trolling with the Nixon question? Well, I'll bite. I give you John Kerry.

Al Gore is not a communist, he is a democrat, and the two are not synonomous.

Communism? If you're talking philosophy rather than some shady historical figures, I think Communism is preferable to people going hungry hungry in the richest country in the world. Yes, it happens to some, and not because they refuse to work, but because they are grossly underpaid for what they do.

Paula------

Barry A. - 8-29-2006 at 05:54 PM

----that is silly, and totally incorrect.

Commies

MrBillM - 8-29-2006 at 07:45 PM

As much as I love to call old Al a Commie, it's not something provable so I'll give him the benefit and simply call him a Socialist, which I sincerely feel he is deep down.

Communism is basically a socio-political system with Socialism as its economic base. What makes it different from other Socialist states is the political philosophy wherein an un-elected ruling elite (i.e. Soviet Politburo) governs every aspect of the military and civilian "proletariat's" daily life with all manner of personal freedom and choice held subservient to the best interests of the state as determined by the ruling elite. Mistakenly, people over the years have said time and again that it didn't make sense for Henry Ford and other Wealthy Captains of Industry to be Communists because they misunderstood the philosophy to be one of "equal sharing among all". It has never been that. The appeal for Ford and his ilk was the "Ruling Elite" aspect. They, of course, felt that would be their position in the New World Order.

Is Al a Commie ? Quien Sabe, but he would probably feel comfortable as one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of Obrador (sounds like it comes from a Beatles song "Obradee, Obrador, Life Goes On, La La Life Goes On...."), I read his comments today to the effect that he is undecided whether to bring the existing Government to a halt or to form his own "Parallel" Government in competition with Calderon's. Hmm. Maybe it's time to add the "looney" to leftwing, after all.

Paula - 8-29-2006 at 09:03 PM

Barry A.

It was a post written too quickly and not very clearly. But it was not silly. We may never know for sure who had the most votes in the last two US elections.
The current administration ignores the constitution and is trampling on the rights of Americans, and has put us into a war that only distracts from the real problems in the world today. A war that about 2/3 of Americans do not support. To object is to be a bad citizen of this nation. I don't see the actions of this administration as democracy in action.
I am not a communist, and truly there has never been a country well run under a communist system. Surpisingly I find MR. Bill M's definition of communism helpful, as we are virtually never on the same page. It is a fact that there are people working minimum wage jobs who are homeless, live in their cars, and don't have a decent diet, let alone health care. I believe that basic and emergency care should be available to everyone, and many countries do a better job than we do at this. There is not room at the top for everyone, and I feel it is the responsibility of all to take care of the weaker segments of society. I think it is good and fair to assume that everybody does the best they can-- even when it isn't good enough. Helping those unfortunate folk has never busted a budget, although military spending and all the pork rolled into one big pig certainly have. So maybe we should get beyond our irrational fear of socialism as an economic concept on some levels. What we have now is beginning to fail.

But this thread is about Mexican elections and politics. I think I'll just sit back and let them sort it out, and hope our US government does the same
:dudette:

Paula-----

Barry A. - 8-29-2006 at 10:52 PM

----very well stated, even if we have drifted somewhat off topic of the original post.

Unfortunately, I do not agree with any of the premises you have put forth here, other than the obvious like vote counting, so we are off to a bad start. I certainly don't think it is Governments responsibility to "make right" errors that the citizens make in their life planning. In light of that, I think I will just leave it alone-----we certainly will not solve any problems by argueing about it here.

I just find it difficult to NOT respond when I see folks make general statements that I believe are really off-base.

There is a general rule in economics and investing that says roughly, "the majority is almost always wrong"----thus the very good strategy of investing as a "contrarian". I am certainly a contrarian, and it has stood me in good stead, always, both in life and in investing.

We just look at things differently, but that is ok.

Barry

David K - 8-29-2006 at 11:02 PM

Where did I say Algore was a commie...???

WHAT I SAID: "...if they lose (like Algore) somebody cheated or made a mistake when they voted!"

Let me rephrase this: '...if they (the communists) lose (like the way Algore did)...

Amigos... we are talking Mexican politics, but I am comparing to what I know... American politics.

Algore is not a communist, just a sore loser, a baby, wah wah wah... Or would you rather be speaking arabic today?

Please chill and allow opinions other than your own to be expressed (called openess, freedom of thought and expression, things liberals used to believe in)... I am not threatening anyone who has different opinions.

David K

Baja Bernie - 8-30-2006 at 12:00 PM

I still think you should post the picture of Pancho Villa and his gang with a cannon, that I sent you, --with the caption "Is this the next step after Contesting the Vote"---

I only asked David to post the picture because I am still not able to vault that hurdle.....................heck! I can't even crawl over it.

Cypress - 8-30-2006 at 12:31 PM

Politicians. Heard one of 'em expressing his opinion about some dippity-do subject. He was 50% for it and 50% against it. My limited math might be wrong, but doesn't that add up to zero. We can get zero without paying anybody high dollars for that sort of leadership.

toneart - 8-30-2006 at 12:35 PM

Please stay on topic!

I can see the parallels with the Mexican elections and the U.S. elections, but when the conversation took a turn it really belonged in "Off Topic".

Having said that, these right wing attacks using false or distorted labels are inappropriate extrapolations from ...(well, I caught myself almost using labels here).

:fire:

comitan - 8-30-2006 at 12:38 PM

The following article is pertinent to the subject matter of this thread, not the off topic rhetoric this is being put forth by some people.

Leftist vows to form own government in Mexico

August 30, 2006

BY MARK STEVENSON

MEXICO CITY -- Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, convinced he won't be awarded the presidency, has vowed to create a parallel leftist government and is urging Mexicans not to recognize the apparent victory of the ruling party's Felipe Calderon.

While his party lacks the seats in Congress to block legislation, Lopez Obrador can mobilize millions to pressure his conservative rival to adopt the left's agenda -- or to clamp down and risk a backlash.

Both scenarios are possibilities as the former Mexico City mayor plans to create his own government to rule from the streets, with the support of thousands occupying protest camps throughout downtown Mexico City.

Some predict his parallel initiative -- which Lopez Obrador's supporters call the ''legitimate government'' -- could turn those camps into the core of a violent revolt, especially if the government tries to shut it down.

Such violence broke out in the southern city of Oaxaca after police were sent to evict striking teachers. Citizens' groups joined the protests, setting fire to buildings and buses, seizing radio and TV stations and forcing the closure of businesses.

Rhetoric and posturing?

''Everything we do, from property taxes to permits to natural resources, will go through the 'legitimate government,''' said Severina Martinez, an Oaxaca teacher camped in Mexico City's Zocalo plaza. ''We won't have anything to do with the official government.'' Supporters took out a newspaper ad Tuesday, calling on Lopez Obrador to set up his own treasury and said Mexicans ''should channel federal revenues to the new treasury department.''

The administration of President Vicente Fox hopes it will all just boil down to fiery rhetoric and posturing. ''We think this is a symbolic, political act that has no validity in the affairs of state,'' Fox's spokesman said. AP

[Edited on 8-30-2006 by comitan]

Paula - 8-30-2006 at 12:57 PM

My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my posts above.

[Edited on 8-30-2006 by Paula]

"Ignorance"???? "Rudeness"??????

Barry A. - 8-30-2006 at 01:19 PM

--------I saw none of that in any of the above posts------I am confused, and bemused, but certainly not offended. :no:

People can, and do, live on minimum wage, albiet not very well by todays standards. I know because I did it for several years until I got a better job, etc., etc., etc.. after seeing the "light", and going back and getting an education while supporting my wife and two kids------and no, my wife did not work-----she was busy taking care of our kids, while I worked for "minimum wage" as a clerk at a liquor store at night, and as a day laborer on weekends------------it can be done, and we were not hungry, but it was not much fun!

Oooooooops, now Paula has edited-----

Barry A. - 8-30-2006 at 01:21 PM

------her post, and mine does not make any sense anymore--------Oh well :tumble:

Al G - 8-30-2006 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Please stay on topic!

I can see the parallels with the Mexican elections and the U.S. elections, but when the conversation took a turn it really belonged in "Off Topic".

Having said that, these right wing attacks using false or distorted labels are inappropriate extrapolations from ...(well, I caught myself almost using labels here).

:fire:

ALMOST???

Paula - 8-30-2006 at 02:00 PM

Barry, an apology for editing my apology is now in order. I don't like to edit the meaning of my posts so as not to pull the rug out from under others. But as written it was a rude apology, and why would any sane person make a rude apology?

I also lived on minimum wage years ago, but it doesn't buy what it used to. Minimum wage in high cost of living areas doesn't cover basic expenses any more.
Now I think I'll take Al G's advice and stop digging. :tumble:

[Edited on 8-30-2006 by Paula]

Paula------

Barry A. - 8-30-2006 at 02:09 PM

I will u2u you, which I should have done in the first place, and not take up everybody else's time.

Sorry folks.

Question!

Baja Bernie - 8-30-2006 at 03:30 PM

How would someone define ruling from the streets in one word. Even in Mexico it would begin with the letter 'R'.

Bernie------

Barry A. - 8-30-2006 at 03:41 PM

-----is the Mexico way, es verdad??

Unbelievable!!!!! Much as I was hopeful with Fox's election, it has not worked out----------maybe this will get the elete's attention-------something has to, IMHO. :mad:

Al G - 8-30-2006 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
How would someone define ruling from the streets in one word. Even in Mexico it would begin with the letter 'R'.

Does "irresponsible"start with an "R" in Spanish??? :biggrin:

Al G

Baja Bernie - 8-30-2006 at 03:51 PM

Irresponsible is what a juvenile is normally thought to be. I'll still stick with the 'R' word.

Al G - 8-30-2006 at 04:02 PM

Bernie.. I know what you are romancing to. I did not mean to reduce the fire of "The Revolution"

[Edited on 8-30-2006 by Al G]

bajabound2005 - 8-30-2006 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
elete's attention-------something has to, IMHO. :mad:

Is "elete" a Spanish word??? Maybe you mean elote....no, I bet it's an English word and you mean ELITE? :?: