BajaNomad - Q: What's the worst road you've needed 4WD to conquer in Baja?

Q: What's the worst road you've needed 4WD to conquer in Baja?

Ken Cooke - 5-4-2007 at 10:59 PM

Anyone with some good stories & photos???

Up the creek (in Baja) in the dark (literally):

BAJACAT - 5-4-2007 at 11:02 PM

Maybe "the widow maker", in catavina...(Santa Maria Mission)..

jimgrms - 5-5-2007 at 06:23 AM

The b-tches the road south of puertocitos, in 64 or 65 had to unload my 57 international and back up the road as i had lost compound low the road had been patched bu throwing bags of redi mix in the bad spots, i sure wish i had 4x4 at the time

Hook - 5-5-2007 at 07:04 AM

La Vibora.......but I dont get out much.

Yet.

Crusoe - 5-5-2007 at 07:18 AM

Aguajito---San Nicolas.....San Sebastia'n......!972. There was an old one legged man there----Isernio?......He liked to laugh alot and smile. Fun person.

Barry A. - 5-5-2007 at 07:20 AM

For me deffinitely the grades just south of Puerto Citos in the mid-70's in my Ford F100 with a camper shell and 2 wheel drive with 4-speed manual tranny and monster tires.

Tho we made it, on the return trip from San Luis Gonsaga I twisted my motor (240 6 cyl) off it's motor mounts on the first grade of the 3 (or 4?) bad ones, and had to litterally chain the engine back to the frame to proceed home. It was really touch and go. When the motor mounts let go, the gear shift lever on the floor came over and almost broke my leg--------that was a real wake-up call!!!

When I got home I installed semi-solid after-market motor mounts, and that old truck (1969) is still running with no more (similar) problems. My son has it now in Owens Valley.

In the early 60's we had made the same trip in a VW van which made it ok, but the van was never quite the same after that----------what an amazing vehicle.

Oso - 5-5-2007 at 07:59 AM

Not sure "road" is applicable- took a wrong turn past Laguna San Ignacio the day before the B1k and ended up on the race course, through the dunes on the whoop-de-dos. Came out on the beach in El Datil. Definitely would have never made it without the "doble". Spent the night on the beach in the camper shell with my Chow/Lab, Chu Foon. Caught up with the LHL at Scorpion Bay next day. What an adventure!, broke a motor mount, fried spark plug wires, had two flats and dented Roberto's pretty new F-350 during a moment's inattention in Cd. Constitucion. All this in an '82 Chevy Silverado- still running. BTW, it's still for sale with or without solid steel camper shell.

TMW - 5-5-2007 at 10:03 AM

I would say the Widow Maker too. There's one rock that took me 4 tries in 4x4 to get over. It's hard to say whether 4 wheel drive was necessary in a lot of cases since I'm usually in 4 wheel drive when I'm on such roads. The south summit is another bad one. Probably much worse now that little or no traffic has been over it. There are places on the Pole Line Road that are pretty bad too. Before the Baja 500 I plan on doing the San Ignacio to San Juan de Las Pilas route. I understand that at the top of the mtn you can see both the Sea of Cortez and the Pacific .

Barry A. - 5-5-2007 at 10:13 AM

TW-----the "south summit" is where in Baja??

Summit Loop

TMW - 5-5-2007 at 12:13 PM

The following is from 2001 the last time I did the loop.

Summit Loop

For reference use the Baja Almanac page 8.

On hwy 3 turn north at KM108. You’ll cross a cattle guard onto a graded road.
GPS readings are Datum 27 in degrees-minutes –seconds, followed by elevation.

Hwy 3 at KM108. 0.0 31-29-29 x 115-46-39 3514ft
Jct. Sign Jamau y Sonora 2.8 31-29-55 x 115-43-59 3339ft
Bear left.

Nuevo jct. turn off to left 3.6 31-30-26 x 115-43-41 3350ft
Continue straight

At this point you’ll go about 6 miles total looking for a road to the left. If you come to a locked gate turn around and go back looking for a road to your right with in a mile. I’m going from memory so please bear with me. If you look straight ahead you can see the summit road running left to right at the base of the mtns.

The turn off road will take you to the summit road access at 6.9 miles from hwy.

Summit road access 6.9 31-33-09 x 115-43-31 3484ft
Fence and cattle guard 9.7 31-34-55 x 115-43-05 3736ft
This starts Summit run.

Sum. Rd .2 miles pass Dam 12.1 31-35-24 x 115-41-07 3761ft
Wash near house 14.2 31-35-49 x 115-39-49 3787ft
Note. This is El Jamau on topo map

** Top of Summit 19.0 31-37-38 x 115-36-37 4186ft
Wash at bottom of Summit 20.7 31-37-57 x 115-36-09 3088ft
Note: Turn right up out of wash. Watch carefully.
You can see road to south coming down Summit.

As I recall the right turn for the south summit is about 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the wash.

Turn right for South Summit 21.8 31-37-07 x 115-34-48 3220ft
Hill top up South Summit 24.1 31-36-10 x 115-36-04 4033ft
** Top of South Summit 24.6 31-36-03 x 115-36-24 4588ft
Gate at top of South Summit 25.0 31-35-52 x 115-36-31 4639ft
Y in road bear right 28.7 31-34-03 x 115-37-41 4448ft
Y in road bear right 31.0 31-32-21 x 115-38-19 3829ft
Note: Your now on Graded
Road to village of Jamau.
Cattle gate 32.9
Cattle gate 33.4
Jct. Sign Jamau y Sonora, same as line two above.

[Edited on 5-5-2007 by TW]

Attachment: Summit Loop 3.pdf (35kB)
This file has been downloaded 363 times

TMW - 5-5-2007 at 12:22 PM

SCORE tried to use both summits in the 95 or 96 Baja 500 race but too many racers complained about how hard it was so it was taken out. That was the first time I had been on it.

Von - 5-5-2007 at 07:39 PM

Thats around my uncles ranch right past heroes de independencia isnt it, I love going down all the way to the bottom and going north what a long trip that is......back to La romurosa......

Taco de Baja - 5-6-2007 at 12:54 PM

The road through the Sierra Columbia, heading from Hwy 1 to Punta Blanca on the Pacific in the early 1980's comes to mind, some very hairy stairsteps....But beautiful country.

Also the "road" through the dunes between Playa Malarrimo to the town of Malarrimo, 15 of so miles, to the northwest in a full size Chevy loaded with gear...We decided to try it since we did not want to go back through the almost featureless plain to the pavement at San Jose de Castro.....Mighty soft sand for a heavy truck

AmoPescar - 5-6-2007 at 10:11 PM

What's the worst road I needed 4WD to conquer in Baja?

It was the road to the border on Memorial Day weekend.

But hey…NO PROBLEM…I just threw in 4WD LOW and drove to the front of the line!!!!

Miguel :lol:

Ken Cooke - 5-8-2007 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmoPescar
What's the worst road I needed 4WD to conquer in Baja?

It was the road to the border on Memorial Day weekend.

But hey…NO PROBLEM…I just threw in 4WD LOW and drove to the front of the line!!!!

Miguel :lol:

These Jeepers couldn't wait to use the facilities - notice Lynn sitting on the Jeep on the left on Powell's bumper-mounted toilet seat! :lol:

David K - 5-18-2007 at 12:24 PM

I wonder if you were on the old logging road to Corral de Sam?

[Edited on 5-18-2007 by David K]

scan0020-R.JPG - 47kB

DonBaja - 5-18-2007 at 12:35 PM

If I post the GPS coordinates would it be possible to find exactly where we were on a map or google earth ?

David K - 5-18-2007 at 12:37 PM

Yes... Google uses map datum WGS 84 and Baja Almanac topos are at NAD 27 Mexico.

DonBaja - 5-18-2007 at 12:43 PM

I apologize for hijacking this thread !!! Here are the coordinates:
Elevation 6,922 ft.
N.31* 02.788
w.115* 33.155
Hope this is correct

20 year old map shows Corral de Sam

David K - 5-18-2007 at 12:52 PM

corral de sam-r.JPG - 48kB

El Camote - 5-18-2007 at 12:54 PM

1996. First backcountry trip into the bowels of Baja. Thought I was unstoppable with my Jeep CJ-7. Overnighted in San Felipe, drove the dry lake bed out to Hwy. 3 and spent a night at Mike's Sky Ranch. So far so good. Decided to take the connecting "road" to the observatory road in the morning and out to the Pacific. Hey, it looked like a good road on the map and Pepe the bartender said we'd make it. After the first few miles, I didn't care about getting the Jeep out of there, I just wanted to survive myself. Almost flipped the Jeep several times. Kissed the ground when we got to the observatory road. Think it took us 4 hours to go 15 miles. The jeep actually made it home without any visible damage but it dropped it's load of oil from the transfer case on the garage floor the first night back.

November 1998. I had a short memory. The challenge was to make it up to the Observatory, via Mike's, from San Felipe and back in one day, solo, on a motorcycle. Thought it had to be easier on a bike. Had to carry two gallons of gas in milk jugs in a backpack. Not a good idea. Again, the first few miles out of Mike's I learned my XL-500 was not geared low enough to make the rocky inclines without stalling. Wiped out, bent the shifter, gashed my ankle. Made it up to the peak by 3:00pm. Way too late to make it back before dark. That night was a story all it's own but made it back to San Felipe, in one piece, by 8:00 the next morning. Then I slept. :rolleyes:

David K - 5-18-2007 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DonBaja
I apologize for hijacking this thread !!! Here are the coordinates:
Elevation 6,922 ft.
N.31* 02.788
w.115* 33.155
Hope this is correct

Hola Don... it would seem you were along Arroyo Los Pinos, south of Corral de Sam... GOOD JOB!!!

donbaja gps-r.JPG - 46kB

mtgoat666 - 5-18-2007 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by DonBaja
I apologize for hijacking this thread !!! Here are the coordinates:
Elevation 6,922 ft.
N.31* 02.788
w.115* 33.155
Hope this is correct

Hola Don... it would seem you were along Arroyo Los Pinos, south of Corral de Sam... GOOD JOB!!!

The location you point out is clearly illegal. Hope the park staff catch you next time. Really tees me off when people use closed land for their off road destruction. The park is for conservation, not erosive destructive toys

DirkEXC - 5-18-2007 at 03:44 PM

ooooh seems we may have struck a nerve. I think I'll go plant some spotted leopard fur in a bear trap to document their territory.

David K - 5-18-2007 at 04:27 PM

What is illegal about a location... if there are no warning signs or broken down gates or fences? Did you read his story? He and friends were taking a road near Mike's Sky Rancho to see if it went through to the observatory. IF that road was closed to motorized vehicles, then there would be a closed sign or blocked access.

Perhaps you better take a tranquilizer in a couple of weeks, because the Baja 500 is RACING through that very same region, and crosses and even uses some of the observatory road. Friends exploring the mountains together is a wonderful thing... off road racing is something eles all together... Pick your battles! :light:

mtgoat666 - 5-18-2007 at 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
What is illegal about a location... if there are no warning signs or broken down gates or fences? Did you read his story? He and friends were taking a road near Mike's Sky Rancho to see if it went through to the observatory.

do you rob people on the street because there is no sign saying it is prohibited?
there is no legal route in that area to enter the park thru northern edge. period.
just because abandoned roads are found in the bush doesn't mean its proper to reblaze paths, particularly if you are not local and have no idea who controls the land.

Ken Cooke - 5-18-2007 at 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

The smartest thing is to use these roads so that the anti-access groups (i.e. - Center for BioDiversity, Sierra Club, etc.) will have to make a case against closing routes that are being used the the public. Not locked away from the public.

David K - 5-19-2007 at 09:39 AM

666, how would these guys know that they were in the park or that (according to you) one cannot drive on certain roads inside the park (that aren't signed as prohibited...

All I am saying is to lighten up on your fellow Nomad Baja explorer...

TMW - 5-19-2007 at 10:26 AM

The trail that connects to the Observatory road has been used for years by motorcycle riders.

Mexitron - 5-19-2007 at 10:44 AM

El Camote--I went on that God-awful Meling to Mike's road in 1996 too...that part driving around the Oak tree by the stream crawling over huge boulders stands out. Last time I went in 2004 it had regraded and no trouble at all.

Mexitron - 5-19-2007 at 10:46 AM

This little bugger crunched my floorboard--you get an idea of the steepness by looking at the rock ledge to the right.

Yucca Road.jpg - 38kB

Roberto - 5-19-2007 at 10:47 AM

Here is some data to consider:

from an off-road site:

Quote:

Trail sense - I don't like to make a bunch of "rules" but if you have not been to www.treadlightly.org and you are not familiar with low-impact recreation, please learn it and what it means before you go on a trip. Ask questions here if you are unsure. We enjoy constructive discussion like this, and encourage it. Don't be bashful. The bottom line is this - we will not tolerate any irresponsible behavior. Vehicles must stay on established trails. If you see a very faint track that is recovering well from very old use, is abandoned, andis in a sensitive area, DO NOT drive on it. Chances are that it is a track from someone who was driving off the trail to begin with. (this is not meant to be confused with a useable track with infrequent but legitimate use. We can discuss this in another thread if necessary). Some exceptions to this might be sand travel, or watercourse travel, where an established route or OHV area exists.

Hard to tell for sure from the pictures, but this hardly looks like a well-established trail they were on, and it would also seem they were within the park boundaries. How should they have known? Well, it makes sense to know where you're going, especially when you are looking for new roads, right?

I'm not expressing judgement, just adding some information, and along those lines SCORE races occur on established trails and back roads, and for that reason have minimal environmental impact. They churn those roads up, for sure, but the roads are already there.

[Edited on 5-19-2007 by Roberto]

Capture.JPG - 32kB

mtgoat666 - 5-19-2007 at 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
The trail that connects to the Observatory road has been used for years by motorcycle riders.

The roads have been chained/signed for years where they intersect the observatory road in the park, on the plateau. Roads in the low lands (below the park plateau) may be legal (but private land). Roads on the plateau, in the park, are clearly illegal to use despite all of the illegal motorcyclists.
Unfortunately 10% of the ATV/offroad crowd give the other 90% a bad name.

skibum - 5-19-2007 at 08:29 PM

One question is, would you drive the same way if it was your local national forest?

TMW - 5-20-2007 at 09:01 AM

If there is no locked gate or if there is no sign that says no trespassing, the answer is yes. Provided it is a road or trail. I would not just cut cross country. I drive trails/roads all the time in the Sequoia National Forest and it's legal.

Ken Cooke - 5-20-2007 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skibum
One question is, would you drive the same way if it was your local national forest?

National forests contain areas designated for ATVs, Green Sticker vehicles, etc. In the Sierra San Pedro Martir, I have *legally* traveled sections that are closed to the population due to locals going into the back woods to start fires for the park personnel to put out. Places such as Venado Blanco and La Tasajera meadow are indeed closed to the population, but if you have a built rig, and can drive it safely and responsibly, and have a good relationship with park staff, you can get behind the gates without being some sort of scofflaw.

La Tasajera Road - leading to the meadow w/indemic trout:

Phil S - 5-20-2007 at 12:40 PM

I can't give you a picture, but I vote for the blvd through the Loreto Bay development on the way to Inn at Loreto Bay Resort