BajaNomad

MAGDALENA VISITA MYSTERY (Mulege area, 2009-2015 posts)

David K - 3-5-2009 at 06:30 PM

Thanks to a recent trip report by 'BajaAmy', some deeper research was in order to untangle the mystery of the ruins of 'Magdalena'...

There are TWO ruins within a few miles of each other, in fact!

1) A stone and adobe chapel on the south bank of the palm filled arroyo in the town of San Jose de Magdalena, several miles west of Palo Verde on Highway One, north of Mulege.

Ed Vernon in 2002, identifies this as the 1774 Dominican visita of San Jose de Magdalena.

Marquis McDonald in 1950, saw the small chapel and was told it was 'only 70 years old' (~1880), post mission construction.

Dave Werschkul in 2003, calls this the visita of San Jose de Magdalena and includes a 1905 photo of the church.

Now, the second site:

2) A long aqueduct, stone pila (reservoir) and ruins of an 'L' shaped building in the desert, just outside the canyon entrance 'Boca de Magdalena', near some ranches or farms once part of a village of Boca de Magdalena.

Arthur North about 1905 identified this site as a Jesuit mission of Santa Maria de la Magdalena.

Marquis McDonald in 1950 identified the site as more likely work begun by Franciscans in 1769, or maybe earlier by the Jesuits.

Howard Gulick and Peter Gerhard in 1956 identify the site as the 'ruined Magdalena chapel and irrigation works built by the Dominicans in 1774.

Choral Pepper in 1973 mentions that Franciscan Padre Palou considered moving the Mulege mission to Santa Maria Magdalena after a severe flood in 1770 destroyed the fields at Mulege. Irrigation works and buildings of adobe upon foundation stones at Magdalena were abandoned sometime later.

Dave Werschkul in 2003, locates it and names the site as the Jesuit ruin of Santa Maria Magdalena of 1708.

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Here is the church at San Jose de Magdalena in 1905



It would appear to be closer to 25 years old than 130 years old, as there are still doors, a cross, ie. in use.

Here is Kevin Clough's photo from about 1998, which looks like the same condition as the photos in Ed Vernon's 2002 book



BajaAmy has just returned with photos of a collapsed ruin in 2009.

Because of the historic documentation I have seen, I am going to go along with McDonald (and others who have ignored even metioning the San Jose church) and assume that the site in the town of San Jose de Magdalena is an 1880 building more so than one from the mission period.

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Santa Maria Magdalena (Santa Maria de la Magdalena) is the name generally applied to the visita site outside the canyon, on the desert and next to the arroyo. Located at the end of the aquaduct that originates inside the canyon.

A problem with some authors is the use of this same name on a 1757 Jesuit map, where a 'mission' of Santa Maria Magdalena is shown further north, closer to Bahia de los Angeles and listed as 'started'. Also, a bell of that name with the year 1739 hangs at Santa Gertrudis, the first mission south of the 'started' Santa Maria Magdalena site... (see http://vivabaja.com/109 for more on that site).

Here is McDonald's 1949-1950 trip photos:





and the pages of his details of both Magdalena sites from his 1968 'Baja: Land of Lost Missions':



About 1998 Baja Nomad 'Kevin in Oklahoma' took these photos of the ruins, the aquaduct and the pila (reservoir):









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Now, some views from above! Starting in close, then moving up for higher view.







Now a different direction showing the aquaduct trench going across the neighboring farm and a mission road... just west of the visita:
LOOKING EAST-SOUTHEAST


Another close look from another direction:
LOOKING SOUTH


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More details are likely as others contribute or I dig up more... I will be emailing some Baja specialists to hear of any other details.

Stay tuned!!!

(thanks BajaAmy for the inspiration to research this site!)



[Edited on 8-1-2015 by David K]

David K - 3-6-2009 at 09:40 AM

Southwest historian and author Dr. Robert Jackson ('academicanarchist') had this to say in an email from last night:

Dear David. How have you been? How is married life treating you?

Of the different theories, Choral was correct. Palou reports the flood damage, and the possible relocation of Mulege to the visita site, which was never a mission. It was common in Baja Californiia to establish farms in other valleys to maximize production.

I continue to write on Paraguay missions, and visit 16th century convents here in Mexico. Last month I visited Tlaxcala, and photographed the Franciscan convent Nuestra Seńora de la Asunción in Tlaxcala City, which was one of the first four Franciscan convent-missions in Mexico. The church probably dates to around 1540.

Take care. Robert

David K - 3-6-2009 at 09:51 AM

Edward Vernon (author of the beautiful Baja mission book 'Las Misiones Antiguas, The Spanish Missions of Baja California' http://www.bajacaliforniamissions.com/ ) also responded:

Hi David,

You are taxing my memory but I'll try to dig out what I can. In essence I agree with you (Or does my research).

I know that the location of an disintegrating adobe adobe mound we thought was Gulick's site (and I can't find a photo) is not the stone church remnants of Visita San Jose de Magdalena. I thought he may have mistaken some unknown adobe ruins for the visita and not found the stone church.

By the way what a great site. Lots of water canals, terraces, and in a beautiful canyon. I did not date the stone church (so sorry to hear it is now fallen! Vandalism?) but my sources are in agreement with yours on the Franciscan start and Dominican takeover. I wonder if we are not getting mixed up in semantics.

My detailed topo map calls the water course down the canyon, both above and below the stone visita "Boca de Magdelena". As the Padres so often moved things for better water or whatever, maybe adobe heap was the first location that was then moved upstream to later build the new stone chapel . Also, Gulick lists Boca de Magdalena as an arroyo, not a point, in his index. It is hard to believe that Gulick did not find the stone church but he mentions only one site in the arroyo. Confusing. I'd like your thoughts!
Ed

(PS added):
What McDonald calls Santa Maria de Magdalena,adjacent to the village of Boca de Magdalena is hard to locate as the village no longer exists but the description ""Small L shaped building of adobe " doesn't fit .

The visita and the village (SJdM) are well within the canyon. The Auto Club map shows SJdM at 8.8 miles from the hiway. I measured the visita at 7.6 miles from the same point but on opposite sides of the arroyo.

I can't believe either man found the stone ruins as they surely would have exclaimed over the building as well as the water, palms and beauty.

There are so many ruined adobes with stone foundations in that area they may have jumped to a wrong conclusion.

Somewhere, in the Mac Donald or Gulick archived files (UCSD) I seem to remember an adobe heap identified as San Jose de Magdalena.But?

Another mystery for you to solve!

[Edited on 3-6-2009 by David K]

David K - 3-6-2009 at 09:54 AM

I refered Ed to this Nomad thread for him to see the satellite images that show the exact spot of the 'first' visita site, at the end of the aqueduct...

David K - 3-6-2009 at 11:50 AM

My pleasure... This stuff is great... All my life I have been reading about and seeing first-hand Baja California history... and it NEVER gets boring. Stuff like this is like having found a NEW site!

What Jackson meant is Palou (Franciscan who took over running the missions, including Mulege from the Jesuits, after Serra went north) began developing the site at Boca de Magdalena (outside the canyon)... and everyone mentions that site... calling it Santa Maria Magdalena. The Almanac has it, but shown a few miles too far south.

The newer site at the village of San Jose de Magdalena is only mentioned by Ed Vernon... as a visita. Because no historian or history author before Ed named it as a visita, I have my doubts. Ed seems to agree with my conclusions... but it warrants further investigation, for sure!

Marquis McDonald in '49 or '50 saw that San Jose de Magdalena church after visiting the first site, but was told it was only 70 years old. The 1905 photo in Dave's book seems to show it still being used as a church, with a wooden cross atop and doors. Pepper, Gulick & Gerhard, and Arthur North in 1905 do not mention the San Jose de Magdalena site, at all... only the Boca de Magdalena site.

I do not own Engelhart's book... but Pepper and others did get their information from it. I will continue to try and get pages from Engelhardt or Meigs to verify... they were the Dominican mission experts.

As for your observations... since the site was productive farm land since the mission period... there is no reason that the Mexicans who moved to Baja from the mainland to farm the land after the Spanish period, couldn't have constructed the irrigation works and adobe homes, and that church.

The mission period in Baja ended in the early to mid 1800's as the Indians died off and because of Mexico's independence form Spain and secularization laws stripping the missions of their lands.

That whole area of Baja where there was water and farm lands was developed by the padres. Each mission had several visitas... all to contribute to food production.

It is possible that the San Jose site was a newer location for the Boca de Magdalena site... in fact it IS... But, was that building in Ed's book built before 1828 (when the Mulege mission closed) or after by the new settlers from the mainland, who began coming in the 1830's?

Locals often do not know about the happenings of over 100 years ago of where they now live. They are pretty involved in just growing enough food off the land, and do not have time to go to city libraries and research the pile of rocks. Unfortunately, too few really care about the past... and those piles of rocks and adobe will get plowed over to make room for what is needed today...

By making these 'piles of rocks' interesting and known... we hope to create the desire of you Baja enthusiasts to want to see them... and in doing so, bring money to the area and show the locals that those 'piles of rocks' have VALUE to preserve and save!!!

In the meantime, please take as many photographs of these historic sites as you can to show the area and 'save it' electronically (at least) for the future!

Thank you!!!

bajaamy - 3-6-2009 at 12:39 PM

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The newer site at the village of San Jose de Magdalena is only mentioned by Ed Vernon... as a visita. Because no historian or history author before Ed named it as a visita, I have my doubts. Ed seems to agree with my conclusions... but it warrants further investigation, for sure!
====================

Yes, you are probably right! I'm sure that a lot of cultivation and building did go on there, because of the water source. And it's hard to say whether that was mission-era or after.

I also wanted to mention that many of the Engelhardt books are available as full text at Google books. I did a cursory search but haven't found the right chapter yet . . . maybe we can both do a little digging. Do you have the Meigs book?

David K - 3-6-2009 at 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaamy
====================
The newer site at the village of San Jose de Magdalena is only mentioned by Ed Vernon... as a visita. Because no historian or history author before Ed named it as a visita, I have my doubts. Ed seems to agree with my conclusions... but it warrants further investigation, for sure!
====================

Yes, you are probably right! I'm sure that a lot of cultivation and building did go on there, because of the water source. And it's hard to say whether that was mission-era or after.

I also wanted to mention that many of the Engelhardt books are available as full text at Google books. I did a cursory search but haven't found the right chapter yet . . . maybe we can both do a little digging. Do you have the Meigs book?


OH Really? Great!!!

No, I don't have Meigs...

GREAT STUFF!

David K - 3-6-2009 at 02:51 PM

Engelhardt's 1908 Missions and Missionaries of California Volume 1:

On Santa Rosalia de Mulege (and Magdalena):

Mission Santa Rosalia de Mulege.

«rT"'HIS was endowed by Don Nicolas de Arteaga with 1 $10,000, like the preceding missions, and came into existence in the year 1705. It was in charge of the Jesuit Fathers until January, 1768. Fr. Juan Gaston received it from the College in April of the same year, from which time till the last of August, 1771, there have been baptized forty-eight children; one hundred and thirteen children and adults died, and seventen couples were married. It has no pueblo de visita; all the Indians comprising forty-six families with one hundred and eighty souls live about the mission.

"It is situated on the side of a high sierra along the banks of a large arroyo called Mulege, which flows into an estuary that terminates in the gulf from which the mission is distant about half a league, so that on account of the break which the arroyo makes through the mountains it is not separated from that sea. It has a church which is vaulted and constructed of masonry like the sacristy, and the dwelling, which latter is covered with tules. The mission is not laid out in regular order, as the huts of the Indians are on the hillside opposite the church and the dwelling of the Father. It lies in twenty-six degrees and forty minutes north latitude; it is distant from Loreto by land along the coast forty leagues, from Mission Guadalupe, eighteen leagues, and from San Ignacio about forty. The mission is in a poor condition, because the floods of 1770 have carried away the dam and the soil from the fields, so that the whole has become a sandy waste. During the month of August, when I was there, I made an examination for the purpose of seeing whether by restoring the dam the current might be restored: but I found that the soil was wanting in which to plant, as all was sand.



"On this account I examined a place called Magdalena, about ten leagues from the mission on the road to San Ignacio, and I discovered that it had an arroyo with sufficient water. By means of a dam the good plots of land which it possesses could be irrigated, and with it the mission might support itself ; but they find themselves unable to do this work for lack of corn and the means to purchase it; rather they find themselves in debt at the royal warehouse, but they have pledged themselves for any aid that is given them so that they may not perish. If any alms were obtained so that they could support themselves during the time the work lasts to put the fields under cultivation, which would require no less than a year, because there are so few people, the work and the removal of the mission could begin. However, the difficulty presents itself to me that by abandoning the site it occupies, the mission will lose the benefit of the launches which go and come to the north of this inlet, for ordinarily they stop at the creek and provide themselves with the necessaries; yet I think that not having enough for itself the mission will have less to give, and for the security of the temporalities the inlet remains there always.

"Besides the Indians (with whom I notice an inclination for a change) have informed me that Magdalena is but three leagues from the shore; it also has an inlet, which, by deepening the mouth, can be entered by the launches, and on account of the proximity those of Mulege may continue the exercise of fishing in which they are experts and of which they are fond; therefore I am of the opinion that it is very expedient to change the mission to said locality. For this reason it should be strongly represented to his excellency, and he should be petitioned to grant some alms for said work, even though it were from the fund of the missions;i and if not, that he should determine what should be done with the Indians in case they cannot maintain themselves at the mission where they now live. If his excellency commands that they move to another mission, the one which appears to me the most agreeable and suitable, because it has enough land and

iThe Pious Fund.

water, is Purisima; but I always have the misgivings that they will get sick and die, as has happened to those that have been transplanted to other missions by order of the inspector-general.

"Not only is the mission poor in grain, but also in tame cattle, for it has only thirty-two oxen, cows, and calves, four hundred and sixty-four sheep, fifteen tame horses, most of which are useless, twenty-three mares, many wild mustangs which cannot be caught to be counted, and eighteen mule. There are many cattle running wild, but for want of horses they cannot be rounded up for slaughter."

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Great find... I was scanning over about 500 pages of the book for the past hour! There is a search feature, as well!
A league (of that period) is 2.5 miles, by-the-way.

David K - 3-6-2009 at 05:43 PM

I have both original North books ('Mother of California' and 'Camp and Camino in Lower California') as well as the reprint of Camp and Camino with additions by Michael Mathes.

I think Engelhardt and Meigs are the only 'important' Baja books that I still don't have!

Thanks again... I never though of looking for them online.

David K - 3-7-2009 at 08:35 AM

Ed Vernon and I are exchanging emails today on the mystery. A problem is that historian author Michael Mathes does call the church in town site the Dominican visita... HOWEVER, (from what Ed sent me) there is NO mention of the desert site near Boca de Magdalena... 5 miles from San Jose de Magdalena.

Authors either mention the desert (Boca) site or the San Jose site, as if they didn't see the other... Except for McDonald...

I will keep you posted on how this develops!

[Edited on 3-11-2009 by David K]

David K - 3-7-2009 at 09:21 AM

I will let Ed ask... I don't have Michael's email...

Arthur North's 1905 Expedition

David K - 3-8-2009 at 02:29 AM

From his Mother of California series in Sunset Magazine, 1906 (later to be his book):

>>> Some time within the next few years, the exact date seems uncertain, the Padres founded the Mission of Santa Maria de la Magdalena, sixteen miles northwest of Santa Rosalia de Mulege.

Here, with the aid of the Indians, they builded a stone aqueduct, in places cutting through the solid rock, and carried water therein for miles that a few level acres might receive irrigation.

Cholla and cardan are growing over the heap of stones that mark the Mission site, but, though the tinnitus, or wild fig, have spread their white roots in many places across the aqueduct and falling masses of rock and earth have clogged it, one still may see in places the substantial stone and masonry work of the energetic Padres. <<<

David K - 3-8-2009 at 09:34 PM

Ed and I have exchanged several emails over this pair of sites... and I have been trying to find as much on it in the books on Google too...

What Ed seems to think is that the church site in or 'near' the village of San Jose de Magdalena was the visita or perhaps a second visita location... The rock construction and nearby adobe remains all seem 'mission-era' like. Plus the location was sure better than out in the desert at the end of the aqueduct... which may have been other old structures or an early site.

Looks like locals added adobe to the original rock chapel...

He said that you cannot see the site from the town of San Jose, across the arroyo... hidden by the palms... Maybe why so many early authors didn't write about it... only the desert site?

I can't wait to get back down there and scout it all out! The aqueduct system is very impressive I hear!

I am looking forward to more area photos from other Nomads! One has already agreed to go there... in the next few weeks.

I would like to see wider angle shots (not just close ups) at both sites... it would be great...

Thanks!

bajaamy - 3-9-2009 at 08:51 AM

Hi, David--yes, that theory makes sense. I sure wish we had taken more photos there.

Here's a photo looking back west-ish toward the town, as we were walking east toward the chapel.

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DSC00785_2.JPG - 34kB

bajaamy - 3-9-2009 at 08:53 AM

One of the road on the way to the ruins . . .

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DSC00797_2.JPG - 44kB

bajaamy - 3-9-2009 at 08:54 AM

Approaching the ruins and an old stone wall in the foreground . . .

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[Edited on 3-9-2009 by bajaamy]

DSC00800_2.JPG - 49kB

David K - 3-9-2009 at 03:37 PM

Thanks for those additional photos Amy...

How would you describe getting to the ruins... ie. :

How close can you drive a Jeep to the ruins (if you knew the route)?

When you come to town (San Jose de Magdalena), the town seems to be on the north side of the arroyo (palms)... then ahead it is on the south side (as are the church ruins). (see sat image)

Can you see the town on the north side from the ruins... or to the the town on the same side, looking west? (I know you said you couldn't see the ruins from town)

What I am trying to get at is why most authors never wrote about the San Jose ruins... just the Boca (desert) ruins...

Thank you!



[Edited on 3-9-2009 by David K]

[Edited on 3-11-2009 by David K]

From Ed Vernon

David K - 3-10-2009 at 05:36 PM

Great to talk with the author of the fine book on the missions to get some insight on the two sites of Magdalena...

This is the third email in a series from Ed as we went back and forth trying to figure out why North in 1905 and Gulick in 1955 only document the desert (Boca) site even though they both traveled into the canyon to San Jose, and beyond... Also, why McDonald (in 1950) did mention the ruins close to town, but was told they were only 70 years old.

Okay here is the letter:

David,

I don't mind the questioning at all. Perhaps we all will learn something. Also it brings back some great memories. I have no doubt that the desert site was visited by McDonald, North and others and that the adobe slump was probably Visita related as was the pila. I did not try to find it as I wanted to find the place Mathes researched.

The photo that Dave W produced is of the same site (stone chapel) that Mathes and I (following his lead and the instructions from Estella Gutierrez-then the anthropologist at Loreto mission) says was the site of the visita. It is on the other side of the arroyo from the village but perhaps a mile or two away to the east.

The stone visita is not visible from the village nor vice versa. It is in fact so difficult to see, that on my first trip I could not find it even though it was 1/4 mile away separted by the arroyo and bushes so dense as to be almost impenatrable.

On the next trip we did find it with the aid of an 80 year old ranch woman with a machete and local knowledge.. It sits on a high bluff about 75 feet above the creek bed and above the palm tree tops. This is not the site described by Mc Donald.

The chapel is on standard mission rock foundations and the walls are stone up about six feet. The front wall as well as the arched doorway is also stone.. The "padres quarters" are of adobe.You must approach the site from downstream after crossing the creek, where the arroyo bank is low, then walk up a hill-going west-past the side canyon and casas- and then the facade of the Visita comes into view.(an exciting view on your first trip)

There may be a trail going west that eventually winds up in the village. Didn't see it but could be there. At some time someone added adobe on top to increase the height of the walls.

From Dave's picture it is obvious thst the locals used it for perhaps special occasions and tried to keep it in repair (Note the brace across the stone arch in several pics) It is a classical mission setting with adjacent padre quarters, nearby "casas" in the center of an intensely developed (acequias, terraced gardens, pilas, check dams---all now unused) ag district.

I think the problem may be that there is a church, developed 70 or so years ago directly across the creek from the village. If so, it would not be surprising if it were built 1880 or so by locals and adobe would be the material of choice. Let me know if you find remnants of this church. I did not visit SLdM village until my third trip as I had no reason to go there. Mike Mathes does read the original Spanish on these sites, and with his opinion backed up by Estella Gutierrez I had no doubt about being in the right place when I saw the chapel and after you see it I think you will agree.
Ed

On my first trip I asked two ranch women within 1/2 mile of the building, showed them Mathes photos, and they had no idea of its existance.

Also, to use your prior logic, why in the world would the Visita headquarters be put in the desert at the pila site where water was not always available, there was little shelter , when few miles away a perrenial stream flowed, palm trees swayed, your labor was housed, and your major crops grew a stones throw from you door?

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DK note: This kind of question/ answer dialog is very helpful in learning about what happened where in Antigua California!

Ed Vernon's book is a must have IMO: http://www.bajacaliforniamissions.com

David K - 3-12-2009 at 08:48 AM

Helps a lot... Thank you Bill and Amy!

Amy, while I have found Engelhardt's 1908 Vol. 1 online to read, I have not found Meig's... where you can view the entire book. Have you, or just a feature that let's you see a couple lines around your search subject?

I also hear the Engelhardt's 1929 updated edition is a better source... But, cannot find it online.

Thanks for helping on this Mission Quest 2009!

David K - 3-12-2009 at 05:24 PM

I am reading Weber's book on the Dominican mission period and it mentions that the Jesuits started the 'Magdalena mission' and it was in ruins in the mid 1800's.

I strongly believe (so far) that a lot of historians are confusing the 'proposed' or 'started' Jesuit mission 'S.M. Magdalena' on the 1757 Venegas map with the Santa Rosalia de Mulege mission visita of Magdalena... Which may not have had 'Santa Maria' even as part of the name...

The quest continues!

bajaamy - 3-12-2009 at 07:27 PM

Here's what Robert Hardy had to say about Magdalena, whichever site it was. This was written about 1826, while Hardy was passing through Mulege (which he spells Molexe):

"About six or eight leagues from Molexe is the mission of La Madalena (sic), established about the same period as the former; but by whom is not known. Its productions are the same as those of the Molexe; but the quality of the spirits which are made from the mezcal, growing wild about the mountains in its neighborhood, is said to be the best of any made in Lower California. Its population is about equal to that of Loreto."

Not much to go on, but there it is! Would six or eight leagues be about right for either of the two potential visita sites?

Amy

David K - 3-12-2009 at 08:58 PM

A league is 2.6 miles...

bajaamy - 3-13-2009 at 04:31 PM

Here's another snippet about the stone chapel from Michael Mathes' book (Misiones de Baja California), and a scanned photo.

“The site of the Visita de San Jose de Magdalena, seventeen miles to the northwest of Mision Santa Rosalia de Mulege on the south bank of the Arroyo de Magdalena, was first considered as an alternative site for that mission by Father Fray Francisco Palou in 1771, following the extensive flooding of the Rio Mulege during the preceding year. The visita was not established, however, until 1774 when a stone and adobe chapel, stone irrigation works and corrals were built to serve the Dominican Mission Santa Rosalia de Mulege. The visita was permanently abandoned in 1828 with the closing of the mission.”





[Edited on 3-13-2009 by bajaamy]

[Edited on 3-19-2009 by bajaamy]

santamariamagdalena4.jpg - 43kB

bajaamy - 3-13-2009 at 04:37 PM

Now compare this photo, looking in the same direction, taken with the visita behind me. You can see the same mountain in the distance.

DSC00811_2.JPG - 44kB

David K - 3-13-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaamy
Here's another snippet about the stone chapel from Michael Mathes, and a scanned photo of the San Jose de Magdalena chapel from Mathes's book.

“The site of the Visita de San Jose de Magdalena, seventeen miles to the northwest of Mision Santa Rosalia de Mulege on the south bank of the Arroyo de Magdalena, was first considered as an alternative site for that mission by Father Fray Francisco Palou in 1771, following the extensive flooding of the Rio Mulege during the preceding year. The visita was not established, however, until 1774 when a stone and adobe chapel, stone irrigation works and corrals were built to serve the Dominican Mission Santa Rosalia de Mulege. The visita was permanently abandoned in 1828 with the closing of the mission.”




[Edited on 3-20-2009 by David K]

BajaAmy's photos enlarged, captions above each

David K - 3-13-2009 at 06:06 PM

the road to the town of San Jose de Magdalena

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overlooking the arroyo, driving west toward the town.

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another shot from the road, coming into town (heading west). You can see the palm-filled arroyo down below.

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looking backward as we’re walking toward the ruins on the south side of the arroyo.

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looking across the arroyo to the panteon on the north side.

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looking back westward, this wall makes up the rear of the chapel. The chapel interior is of course filled with cacti!

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Bill examining what I believe was the wooden arch support that appears in earlier photos.

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You can see the wooden arch support more clearly now.

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side view, looking north. This is probably the wall that once held the window?


to be continued...

David K - 3-13-2009 at 06:16 PM

closeup, looking north. This is the front doorway (now collapsed).

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looking southwest-ish . . . Isaac and Bill chatting

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closeup along the north wall. The arroyo is to the right of the photo. The camera looks west.

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more closeups

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shows some of the attached walls. I think Ed Vernon describes these as padre’s quarters.

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more of the nearby wall ruins

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THANK YOU BAJA AMY!

David K - 3-14-2009 at 06:47 AM

With this dialog and renewed interest, I think we are learning a lot about the two sites of Magdalena!

It very well could be that the ruins near San Jose were not seen, and that is why the ruins near Boca de Magdalena (at the end of the aqueduct) were the only ones mentioned by North and Gulick... McDonald may have been talking about another chapel, closer to town... ? Or, the locals were mistaken about the age of it being 70 (in 1950)... ?

Last night, online, I purchased the two major mission books I did not have: Zephyrin Engelhardt's 'The Missions and Missionaries of California', Volume 1 (1908, revised in 1929)... and Peveril Meigs' 'The Dominican Mission Frontier of Lower California' (1935). This well help me have more details on the many interesting sites in Baja, that I can share with you...

(I rewarded myself after finishing an irrigation job Friday... finally, no rain and the sun is shining, and my phone is ringing!)

1823 Map

David K - 3-14-2009 at 06:59 AM

Here is a close up of the area around Mulege in 1823... and Magdalena is included...



Two missions were active that year in that part of Baja (Santa Rosalia de Mulege and San Ignacio)... the Guadalupe mission had closed, but is shown as a visita... as are others, by triangle symbols.

[Edited on 3-15-2009 by David K]

David K - 3-18-2009 at 06:10 PM

Well, my copy of Engelhardt's 1929 Missions and Missionaries of California Vol. 1 (it's huge) arrived... and still studying it!

I have had more email exchanges with Ed Vernon, as well....

So far, we are pretty well convinced that the ruins by the pila at the end of the aqueduct (by Boca de Magdalena) were NOT the mission visita chapel, but just some ag related activity as part of the visita.

The ruins photographed by BajaAmy, Ed Venon, and Michael Mathes, close to San Jose de Magdalena, up the canyon by the palms, IS the visita chapel.

The mis-identification started by Arthur North in 1905, calling it the mission of Santa Maria Magdalena... from the Jesuit map and records of that 'started' mission... far to the north was followed through many years... and even appears on today's AAA map and the latest publications from INAH in Mexico!

It was part of 'Magdalena, but San Jose de Magdalena, not Santa Maria de Magdalena as North called it... and McDonald, too. :light:

FIVE MONTHS LATER...

David K - 8-3-2009 at 06:39 PM

Back from the Magdalena desert site, which was more extensive than I thought from the small amount of writing about it. There are several buildings/ rooms made from cut and natural rock on both sides of the road. We did not see or hike to the pila... just plain hot and this was interesting enough after a fun off road drive.



















The aqueduct, 0.6 mile from the ruins:







[Edited on 8-16-2009 by David K]

From Space! Looking WNW

David K - 8-3-2009 at 08:49 PM





bajalera - 8-6-2009 at 08:57 PM

What a great thread!

David K - 8-7-2009 at 08:12 AM

Thanks Lee... I would appreciate if you find anything in your Jesuit/ Franciscan/ Dominican records about Magdalena, to please let me know.

Why build out in the desert with a aqueduct many miles long bringing water? Is the church next to San Jose de Magdalena the visita (as Mathes states) or the rock ruins in the desert as Gulick & Gerhard state?

If Mathes is correct, then why an aqueduct going away from the visita to the desert site? If G&G is correct, then is the church ruin in San Jose de Magdalena post mission era construction...?

Baja Mysteries are Great!

Map

David K - 8-14-2009 at 07:34 AM

The roads we took to get to (and out from) the Magdalena desert ruins... have mileages:

Cypress - 8-14-2009 at 03:05 PM

Been all over that country. You'll meet some neat folks at those isolated ranchos. You can sit back , eat some homemade cheese, some cracklins, and swap some stories. It's a whole different world when you get 20+ miles back in the boonies.;D

Magdalena on maps over the years...

David K - 8-14-2009 at 04:57 PM

1823



1871



1907



Map by Arthur North who was the first to add 'Santa Maria' to the name Magdalena, in his book... Mistaking these Magdalena ruins for the proposed mission far to the north on the 1757 Jesuit map.


1930



This 1930 map shows the Magdalena site east of the village of San Jose (de Magdalena)... Perhaps the clearest evidence that the church ruins by San Jose were not the mission era Magdalena ruins!


1941



Here the title of 'Mission' added... The Auto Club continued this error on their early Baja maps, but put 'Santa Maria' in front.


1958



Gulick shows Boca de Magdalena and in the book gives the village a population of 40. He notes the 1774 Dominian ruins of Magdalena being 0.8 mile away and the village of San Jose de Magdalena (pop. 370) is 4.6 miles up the arroyo.


~1965




1975




2003



I pieced together 4 pages of the Almanac to make this map. The incorrect location of Santa Maria Magdalena is circled, about 8 miles southeast of the true location.



[Edited on 11-2-2021 by David K]

Neal Johns - 8-14-2009 at 05:19 PM

Coming from a visit to abandoned Mission Guadalupe, one of our guys snatched a raw fresh garlic out of a field in San Jose de Magdalena (the garlic capital of Baja), ate it, and it sure woke him up!

David K - 8-15-2009 at 07:37 AM

The mystery of the correct visita location and the mistaken name (Santa Maria Magdalena) has us looking at the several possibilities for the error...

1) In 1905/6 Arthur North camped at the Magdalena desert ruins... Locals rode by, returning to San Jose de Magdalena from Mulege, and told him those were the 'Magdalena' ruins.

2) North knew of the Jesuit map (1757) and mission list (1745) that both mentioned a mission called 'Santa Maria Magdalena', to the north... the map showed it far beyond San Ignacio and south of Bahia de los Angeles.

3) "Magdalena" to North was the mission site he was at, so he documented this site near Mulege as being the Jesuit mission of Santa Maria Magdalena.

4) Marquis McDonald photos and documents the site in 1949 calling it Santa Maria Magdalena. He also mentions the old church in San Jose de Magdalena looking like mission-era construction, but learns from locals it is about 70 years old (~1879). That makes it a post mission period church.

5) Howard Gulick/ Peter Gerhard in the mid 1950's describe the desert ruins as the Dominican 'Magdalena' visita built in 1774. No mention is made of the old chapel in San Jose de Magdalena. Gerhard & Gulick are very careful with their facts and details in the Lower California Guidebook.

6) Michael Mathes in 1967 photographs the chapel in San Jose de Magdalena and calls it the Dominican visita from 1774. He doesn't mention the desert ruins.

7) Ed Vernon in 2002 also photographs the same chapel and doesn't visit the desert ruins.

8) Dave Werschkul in 2003 visits both the desert ruins (calls it Santa Maria Magdalena) and the San Jose de Magdalena chapel.

CONCLUSION:

It seems it was Arthur North who applied the proposed mission name to the north 'Santa Maria Magdalena' to this site... Authors and map makers have since called the desert site by this wrong name.

So, is the derert ruins the true Dominican visita (as stated in Gerhard & Gulick) or is it the site in the valley by San Jose de Magdalena per Michael Mathes? Why did Mathes not mention the desert ruins, 5 miles away? Did he not find them or ignored them?

If the desert site is the true visita location, then why there? Why build a 5 mile long aqueduct to bring water there when the location up the canyon in the valley (where San Jose de Magdalena is) has water and is so appealing compared to the cactus coverd location?

A TRUE BAJA MYSTERY!

More on Magdalena from 1863

David K - 8-15-2009 at 07:10 PM

Found this in Francis Weber's 'The Peninsular California Missions 1808-1880' pages 32-33... from an 1863 report by Sebastian Viosca, the United States Consul at La Paz.

To counter the claim that the site is of Jesuit origin, a letter from the Franciscan Padre in 1772 makes the first statement about developing Magdalena with irrigation having just learned of it from the Indians (Palou's letter added below).

Here is the two pages from Weber's book...



[Edited on 8-16-2009 by David K]

Feb. 12, 1772 on Magdalena

David K - 8-16-2009 at 09:02 AM

Here is a page from the 1772 report by Franciscan Fr. Palou on the status of the missions. Here Father Palou describes Magdalena as a potential new location for the Mulege mission, following the floods of 1770 that destroyed the dam and farmlands there.

It reads as if nothing existed there before, since he talks about building an irrigation system. This is why I don't believe the Jesuits had built those ruins, aqueduct or pila... those were all put in by the Dominicans after 1773... But, who can say for sure!?

David K - 8-17-2009 at 07:41 PM

Harry Crosby is the premier authority on the Jesuits in California and his research is contained in the book 'Antigua California'. There is NO mention of any Jesuit visita of Magdalena (or Rondin) that I can find.

I tend to side with Gerhard & Gulick and go with the ruins being part of a 1774 Dominican visita. I am curious why no mention of the old church overlooking the arroyo 5 miles west at San Jose de Magdalena is mentioned by G & G. Either they did not see it or it was simply a post mission period church (ie. from ~1879) and not the Dominican visita...?

[Edited on 8-18-2009 by David K]

David K - 8-21-2009 at 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaamy
One thing I'd really like to do in the future is interview some of the elderly residents of the town (sort of "Juanita-style" from San Ignacio).

Amy


Unfortunately, no one is still alive who can remember the year 1879... or earlier. Since it makes their town more popular and would bring in tourist dollars, calling the old church ruins a mission visita would be of benefit. Perhaps an elder believed it was from the Dominicans and that is the story that gets passed down. The Mexicans that settled the area arrived after the mission period had ended, after nearly all the Indians had died. There would be nobody to tell the story of Magdalena. We have only the books written by the missionaries to find answers.

I am not sure and I have not seen anything in print that convinces me of either site being the 'main' visita of Magdalena. I do have Michael Mathes' email address now and will see if he can shed some light on why he called the San Jose site, the visita of 1774 while others call the desert site the visita.

Why did the padres build such a long aquaduct out to the desert site? Why not just develope the San Jose valley/ canyon area as the Mexicans have done? There is some reason for all that building in the desert with the aquaduct and pila. That desert site was important, but as what?

The quest continues!

NEW SATELLITE IMAGES SHOW THE RUINS GONE!

David K - 5-12-2015 at 06:34 PM

The ancient and mysterious stone ruins of La Magdalena (shown often on maps misnamed Santa Maria Magdalena, and not in the correct spot) have been wiped out by the enlarged Arroyo Boca de Magdalena (as named in the Almanac).



Just like what happened at Ligüí, the arroyo grew into the 1700's mission-era ruins. Perhaps some Punta Chivato/Mulegé area Nomads can get some new photos at the pila before it too is lost for all time?



[Edited on 11-2-2021 by David K]

2013 vs. 2015

David K - 5-12-2015 at 10:02 PM

4-2-13:


2-3-15:




[Edited on 11-2-2021 by David K]

David K - 5-22-2015 at 03:35 PM

There may be other building ruins beside the pila not washed away? On Google Earth, there appears to be some structures that were not next to the road, that we saw on July 24, 2009. Some investigating is needed. I plan to return in 2 months and will report what has survived of the mysterious ruins from the 1700's.

Magdalena visit, July 25, 2015: Much is gone, but not all!

David K - 8-1-2015 at 10:30 AM

We drive 4.8 miles from Hwy. 1, Km. 162.5, and find the pila intact but most of the stone ruins are washed away, in the riverbed, which is about 10 feet lower than the ruin site. Some wall remains are still above the riverbed, next to the new cliff.

Pila, then building ruins, and a photo showing my truck in the arroyo (close to the pila) as seen from the remains of the building complex of La Magdalena.


Now, the few building remains, east of the pila, next to the new arroyo cliff:


Looking west, up the arroyo from the building ruins to my truck, parked close to the pila site, which is only 100 feet or so to the left of the truck:


[Edited on 10-6-2022 by David K]

David K - 10-10-2015 at 11:44 AM

This historic site is only 15 miles north of Mulegé, and since it is vanishing with every flash flood, don't delay in making the short off-road trip to it.

[Edited on 7-18-2018 by David K]

David K - 7-18-2018 at 06:48 AM

'La Magdalena' on this 1933 map of trails used including El Camino Real from the novel, Journey of the Flame:

David K - 11-2-2021 at 03:46 PM

Bump for current discussion of 1871 map.

https://octopup.org/img/media/maps/baja/1871--Santa-Rosalia-...

[Edited on 11-7-2021 by David K]

David K - 11-6-2021 at 06:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
La Piedad
Santa Maria Magdalena
Delores Del Norte
Santa Gertrudis

All the same place apparently.


La Piedad was the location name for where Santa Gertrudis was founded.

Dolores del Norte was the early 'proposed' mission name for what became Mission Santa Gertrudis.

Santa MarĂ­a Magdalena was ANOTHER proposed mission beyond San Ignacio and on the Jesuit map (of missions and proposed or started missions) is placed past Santa Gertrudis (Dolores del Norte), towards BahĂ­a de los Angeles. That is why Choral Pepper came to the belief that the mystery walls, dam, date palm they discovered near BahĂ­a las Animas may have been that aborted mission project? It's bell ended up at the nearest mission to the south.

A third proposed mission shown in the same Jesuit books and maps, was San Juan Bautista, west of San Ignacio. This became locally known as the Lost Santa Clara Mission (north of Punta Abreojos).

I do have all the 'lost' or 'non-missions' detailed in my book, pages 184-191.

David K - 11-6-2021 at 07:02 PM

I am not disagreeing with Barco... as he said, in the end, of the three proposed missions, only Dolores del Norte was established, under the name Santa Gertrudis.

The other two never really existed beyond lists in books and maps made to promote the Jesuit's success in hopes of gaining more financial assistance from wealthy benefactors. The poverty of California in the 1700s was great. Even the silver mines or pearl fisheries were of little success, at least to the Jesuits.

The thread was made to help clear up the use of the name Santa María Magdalena as applied in error, near Mulegé. The 1871 map was helpful in distinctly showing 'Magdalena' and 'Rondin' along the same arroyo (San José on old maps and Boca de Magdalena on new maps).

We can't tell if Rondin was by the cliff with the aqueduct (later a village called Boca de Magdalena) or is where today's town of San José de Magdalena is located.

The map: https://octopup.org/img/media/maps/baja/1871--Santa-Rosalia-...

David K - 11-6-2021 at 08:34 PM

They are only a couple miles apart.
Nothing between other than the ruined old church that some thought was a Dominican visita.
Curious:
Why do you spell Dolores differently?

[Edited on 11-7-2021 by David K]

David K - 11-7-2021 at 03:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Nice little description of Magdalena from Itenerarios y Derroteros 1856.

"You arrive at the ruined chapel of La Magdalena, of which there are walls and sowing lands, which were cultivated and watered by means of an aqueduct, cut into the slope of the hill, that receives water from the Canada del Rondin in which there is a small ranch."


That is great! So, Rondin is the canyon separating the valley of San José de Magdalena and the desert where La Magdalena ruins were (at the end of the canal)?

4x4abc - 11-7-2021 at 06:01 PM

the elevation profile indicates water
cool find!

Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 6.00.08 PM.png - 71kB

4x4abc - 11-7-2021 at 08:41 PM

so - mystery solved
Rancho La Vuelta = Rondin
Rondin is just an old word for Vuelta (curve)

Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 8.20.44 PM copy.jpg - 233kB

the mention of the little ranch is good
because the canyon behind La Vuelta is called Cañada el Ranchito



Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 8.22.33 PM copy.jpg - 189kB

David K - 11-7-2021 at 09:46 PM

Arthur North camped by the La Magdalena site, not the San José de M. chapel, as far as I can recall. That is how the whole error with calling La Magdalena as 'Santa María Magdalena' (the proposed mission north of San Ignacio) began. Other mission books, Mexican maps, and the AAA map happily made it "Mission Santa María Magdalena".

The aqueduct and canal ended at the pila of La Magdalena. On older Google Earth imagery, you can see the route passing by the blue ranch house to the rectangular pila. Perhaps there was more branches or more pilas we cannot see any longer?

4x4abc - 11-7-2021 at 09:52 PM

I personally don't like the location
doesn't fit what the padres usually chose

my favorite is this one:
27° 3'29.61"N, 112°13'42.86"W

the one David is promoting I find extremely unlikely
it is in a flood area and has no infrastructure around it

David K - 11-7-2021 at 09:59 PM

I agree that it is a crazy place for a farm, out in the desert like that.
I wish there was more written about it... The fact remains there was cut stone block walls and adobe remains out there plus the pila. I am so glad I got to see it before the 2014 flood took it out!

4x4abc - 11-7-2021 at 10:10 PM

the other structures are still there
27° 3'26.02"N, 112°10'11.33"W

4x4abc - 11-7-2021 at 11:01 PM

I think the Pila is part of a water line that starts at Boca Magdalena and leads to a Boleo field
a really big one - 37 acres
the entire area around Boca was/is owned by Boleo
but only a small section seems to have been worked on
likely not enough water
the plant growth pattern indicates that there was a second line going to that field
actually, it runs right past that other Pila structure

Boleo.jpg - 272kB

the vertical line in the elevation profile of the water line represents the location of the Pila



Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 10.31.09 PM.png - 46kB

David K - 11-8-2021 at 05:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the other structures are still there
27° 3'26.02"N, 112°10'11.33"W


Yes, that square shape deserves a look!

In 1863, this report describes La Magdalena, Rondin, the aqueduct, and San José (de Magdalena):


A league is approx. 2.5 miles (ranges from 2-3 miles) or the distance typically traveled in one hour.

David K - 11-8-2021 at 06:41 AM

In the 1933 novel, Journey of the Flame, La Magdalena is an imprtant point along El Camino Real:




Flame map-2.jpg - 285kB

4x4abc - 11-8-2021 at 07:49 AM

well, the routing of Camino Real and the location of place names (Paraiso, San Borja) puts it in the fiction category

David K - 11-8-2021 at 08:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
well, the routing of Camino Real and the location of place names (Paraiso, San Borja) puts it in the fiction category


San Borja looks pretty close to actual. Paraiso, of course, is south of San Borja, not north. Mission Guadalupe (near La Magdalena) is not 'del Norte'. So, yes, it is a fictional novel about travel on ECR in 1810 and some names are not real or correct.

David K - 11-8-2021 at 08:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Did the Camino Real bypass San Jose de Magdalena? Was Rondin to Guadalupe more of a side route?


There were parallel ECR routes. The one most often celebrated by Harry Crosby was the route of Junípero Serra to San Diego and goes from Loreto to La Purísima to Guadalupe to San Ignacio. The alternate ECR goes from La Purísima to Mulegé to La Magdalena to San Ignacio.

See both on these 1977 Crosby maps. The alternate route in question is a single dashed line:




4x4abc - 11-8-2021 at 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Did the Camino Real bypass San Jose de Magdalena? Was Rondin to Guadalupe more of a side route?


the Camino Real had some main directional routes and many branches
people at the time had to get to and from Rondin on occasion
but the major need was not to travel to Mulege
it was to find firewood and tend animals

not long ago I identified several of those trails north and south of Rondin
they are all minor

the main routes (like from Loreto to Mulege) are still well defined to this day
and its not the route Crosby published

the 1769 route Serra chose to head north got all the publicity
but it was a route chosen at the end of the Jesuit time to leave the old behind
it only partially reflects the most busy ECR routes.

one of the main routes from Mulege to San Ignacio is kinda close to Magdalena - kinda
it is Mulege - Cuesta Blanca - Rancho Uña de Gato - San Isidro - El Rincon - Santa Cruz - San Ignacio

David K - 11-8-2021 at 05:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Where did Werschkul get 1708 from? Is there a citation?


I have no idea... Dave has vanished just a few years after publishing the book in 2003. He was nice enough to mention me in it for some copy editing of his road logs.

I checked Crosby, Engelhardt, and Dunne (three major history sources on the Jesuits), as well as the 51 volume Dawson Book Series, and found nothing for activities at Magdalena shortly after Mission Santa Rosalía de Mulegé was founded or otherwise.