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Turtle bust

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tehag - 4-12-2009 at 02:57 PM

Two arrested at a Bahia Concepcion restaurant for possessing prohibited turtle meat and parts. Agents seized ample evidence of the crime; they have the head, shell, and a big bag of stew.

Cypress - 4-12-2009 at 02:59 PM

Byron - 4-12-2009 at 03:09 PM

Which restaurant?

ELINVESTIG8R - 4-12-2009 at 03:26 PM

Udo - 4-12-2009 at 03:30 PM

Which restaurante?
Let's boycott them!

dtbushpilot - 4-12-2009 at 04:16 PM

Or let's go there for a bowl of stew :lol:

.....dt

flyfishinPam - 4-12-2009 at 04:49 PM

which restaurant?
lets boycott them!

vandenberg - 4-12-2009 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
Two arrested at a Bahia Concepcion restaurant for possessing prohibited turtle meat and parts. Agents seized ample evidence of the crime; they have the head, shell, and a big bag of stew.

Tom, Didn't know that stuff came in bags. Always thought more in the term of pot. :biggrin:

And the stuff really should only appeal to poor Mexicans or the curious. It's about the same as eating Baja range beef steaks that have been marinated in fishoil for a week or two. :biggrin:

Turtle bust

tehag - 4-12-2009 at 06:21 PM

Don't know what restaurant. I just saw the CONAPESCA and PROFEPA guys standing around behind their trucks in front of the Loreto office and went over to see what was going on. I saw the evidence and asked who, what, where, and got kinda brief answers. The arrestees are here now. The restaurant is up on Bahia Concepcion. The soup/stew was in a cardboard box that was lined with plastic bags. The head looked to be from an adult green turtle. Not endangered, but still very much prohibited. There were people I assume were from the press on hand taking pictures and asking questions. Soon to be in print, I'm sure. I'll watch for it. I agree that a boycott might be at least as effective as whatever the law metes out.

bajamikey - 4-12-2009 at 06:44 PM

yeah lets boycott them!!!

Von - 4-12-2009 at 09:07 PM

Which one u2u me dont forget.......

Sharksbaja - 4-12-2009 at 10:31 PM

Sure would like more info. Mulege is a small town. If it happened there we are sure to hear more.

I hope they make an example out of the people who caught it. They need to be apprehended. If the restaurant bought that with the intention of selling it as fare I say throw the book at em.

Hope it's no one I know.

Got this off another board, don't know if it is true

akmaxx - 4-12-2009 at 10:52 PM

Perhaps a local newspaper will confirm it.

http://bajaforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3196024271/m/792108...

Still doesn't explain who bought/fenced off all the land south of Coyote to Buenaventura

Peace.

mulegemichael - 4-13-2009 at 07:44 AM

wow!....mark and olivia, huh?....some pretty heavy accusations there....i had no clue..

Byron - 4-13-2009 at 07:58 AM

If it's true, it's more than obvious who blew the whistle. Paybacks are a b-tch.

BajaBruno - 4-13-2009 at 08:17 AM

Many years ago (before my "enlightenment") I had turtle stew in La Paz. It was quite tasty. I see the attraction, even for those of us who are not "poor Mexicans."

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Tom, Didn't know that stuff came in bags. Always thought more in the term of pot. :biggrin:

And the stuff really should only appeal to poor Mexicans or the curious. It's about the same as eating Baja range beef steaks that have been marinated in fishoil for a week or two. :biggrin:

David K - 4-13-2009 at 08:37 AM

Eating turtle was a trditional holiday meal in Baja California until the 'new law'... It was quite an occaision to be at Bahia de los Angeles when Cruz Diaz served turtle... pilots would alter their plans to drop in when they heard it was for dinner. So, it must be good!

I was too young to remember the taste or if I even tried it when we stayed at Casa Diaz in 1967... but it was a big deal. In 1966, when we arrived at Comondu on our big transpeninsular trip by Jeep, my parents were invited to join the locals for turtle stew... They were cooking it, in its own shell over the fire... I think we didn't stay... But, as strangers driving through the town, it was an honor to be invited to such a feast, I am sure!

Now, if making turtles illegal so the population recovers to a point they can be reharvested... maybe that will convince the 'old timers' to postpone the turtle killing... knowing there's a reward in the future?

Is there this much anger about the Eskimos and other Northwest tribes who kill grey whales, fur seals, and whatever they get allowed to kill (because 'it is tradition')???

Cypress - 4-13-2009 at 10:27 AM

David K., Yes, there is much anger about the northwest whale killings etc.

Baja&Back - 4-13-2009 at 10:59 AM

FYI: The guy posting at Bajaforums as "San Buenaventura" is Munoz himself, the person who is trying to steal miles of beachfront in Concepcion by invading and fencing it. He has had a running battle with Mark & Olivia for years. I wouldn't be surprised if he planted the turtle evidence on them, considering his black reputation.
He also sent emails out to baja caravan companies, including us, that we have to pay HIM next year to stay on Bahia Concepcion beaches! I will post his email on this forum when I have replied.
Look for this snake lawyer to show up on Nomads forum soon ...
:fire:

Cypress - 4-13-2009 at 12:30 PM

Regarding Mark and Olivia. Sometimes good people make bad decisions.

bajaguy - 4-13-2009 at 12:46 PM

I smell a RAT

Turtle bust

tehag - 4-13-2009 at 01:43 PM

Asked at the CONAPESCA office this morning, and Playa Buenaventura is where the seizure took place. The woman owner and a cook are in federal custody in Nopoló. Her husband says the turtle wasn't for sale, but the feds believe otherwise. If there's more to the story, that doesn't seem to be influencing the case yet. Nothing on SudCal's website yet.

flyfishinPam - 4-13-2009 at 03:50 PM

it doesn't matter if the turtle meat was for sale or not... busted!

playa buenaventura isn't that owned by that mano negro guy?

Diver - 4-13-2009 at 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja&Back
FYI: The guy posting at Bajaforums as "San Buenaventura" is Munoz himself, the person who is trying to steal miles of beachfront in Concepcion by invading and fencing it. He has had a running battle with Mark & Olivia for years. I wouldn't be surprised if he planted the turtle evidence on them, considering his black reputation.
He also sent emails out to baja caravan companies, including us, that we have to pay HIM next year to stay on Bahia Concepcion beaches! I will post his email on this forum when I have replied.
Look for this snake lawyer to show up on Nomads forum soon ...
:fire:

The same post was entered here by ramuma53.
Maybe the same guy ?
This is way too twisted for me to understand.

Gadget - 4-14-2009 at 02:54 PM

Myself and some of the Mocos crew have been invited for "Cahuama" ???sp twice, in '04 and '06 after the Baja Mil.( I won't say where).
The first time it was fantastic and I ate so much stew I thought I would burst. One of the most amazing flavors that any of us have ever had. Our hosts were so delighted to share the experience with us, it was just one of those magical nights in Baja you will never forget. :tumble:

When we were invited again, we could all hardly wait and we talked it all up to other friends and family.
It was horrible!!!! :barf:

Don't know what happened, the associated ingredients were way different, there was too much of the meat in the stew and it tasted like it had been scooped out of the outhouse out back.
One of our family members nearly hurled after just one bite and was green for the rest of the evening. :?:

That was actually kinda funny.
Guess it's all in the prep and the cook.
I've checked it off my list of things to do for the future now.

mulegemichael - 4-14-2009 at 04:32 PM

shari...olivia and marcus have always been really nice to us when we visited...just too bad..the whole thing...now...i'm bringing down my buddies in late may/early june...would it be worth it to bring them your way for a few days for fishing?...anything going on then?...lemme know; we're ready!

ramuma53 - 4-14-2009 at 04:34 PM

My friends, it is clear that Olivia and Mark were selling and cooking for sale Turtle, that at this time is a protected specie in extintion danger, the fact that it is good or bad to eat is not on debate or the fact, it also looks like the fact that they killed the turtles and cooked them is not argued by Mark, Olivia's husband; the fact is that at this time, it is a Federal ofense to do that and she was caught in the act, a fact that not even they denie; who blew the wistle is of no importance because if I knew I would have done it myself, but the same Conapesca authorities busted several places that day, looks like it was an area action, we know that they searched the Hotel Buenaventura too, but found nothing illegal, but in the Restaurant El Zargazo owned by Olivia and Mark, they found the big pot of stew cooking, full of people waiting for it and the heads of the poor turtles in the trash can; also she was trying to go out of it, by saying that she is a MAFIA member or a Mafia Member relative; are those people who some people argue are good guys, then my notion of a good guy is out of place; Is Mexico a lawfull place or not, are we going to protect the endangered species or not, are we against the Mafia or not.

tripledigitken - 4-14-2009 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
My friends, it is clear that Olivia and Mark were selling and cooking for sale Turtle, that at this time is a protected specie in extintion danger, the fact that it is good or bad to eat is not on debate or the fact, it also looks like the fact that they killed the turtles and cooked them is not argued by Mark, Olivia's husband; the fact is that at this time, it is a Federal ofense to do that and she was caught in the act, a fact that not even they denie; who blew the wistle is of no importance because if I knew I would have done it myself, but the same Conapesca authorities busted several places that day, looks like it was an area action, we know that they searched the Hotel Buenaventura too, but found nothing illegal, but in the Restaurant El Zargazo owned by Olivia and Mark, they found the big pot of stew cooking, full of people waiting for it and the heads of the poor turtles in the trash can; also she was trying to go out of it, by saying that she is a MAFIA member or a Mafia Member relative; are those people who some people argue are good guys, then my notion of a good guy is out of place; Is Mexico a lawfull place or not, are we going to protect the endangered species or not, are we against the Mafia or not.

I think it wouldn't be hard to find offenders for this in any town in Baja. It is part of their tradition, like Shari said, that won't be going away any time soon regardless of the laws against it.

Gringo's are put in an interesting culture clash on this issue in my opinion.

To those that think it doesn't taste good your wrong! I can still remember the turtle steak I ate in San Felipe in 1968, it was like a tender piece of veal. Only had once again, farmed raised in Grand Cayman, in a stew and it was also very good.

Ken

ramuma53 - 4-14-2009 at 05:50 PM

As you said, it may have been a tradition, but only a culinary one; also the Aztecas had a tradition to kill people and that doesen't mean you can do it now; the real thing is that the turtles were put under protection for a reason, people were eating them to extintion and now it is a federal felony worst than killing a human, at least if you kill a human, you can argue that you were deffending yourself, but that is hard to argue against a Turtle; also I dare you to kill a Gray wale and then argue it is an Skimo Tradition, lets see if you manage to stay out of jail in any part of America.
On your line of tought, then why forbid cocaine consumption, that won't be going away soon either, or for that matter of fact any illegal drug consumption or even Discrimination against blacks or Mexicans, after all it was a Kukus Klan tradition or not.
The fact my friend, regardless of if it was a good food, it was a tradition or anything, is that it is Illegal all over the world now, for a very good reason, they are in extintion danger and as a consequence it is illegal to even look at them in a bad way; traditions change and have to be forgoten all the time and this is one we all should enforce, if we want our grandchildren to see a live turtle swiming in the sea, or are you palnning on telling yours that there are no more turtles because we were unable to change a culinary tradition.

I club Baby Seals when not in Baja

tripledigitken - 4-14-2009 at 07:29 PM

Ramumba,

Where in my post did you get that I support the killing of turtles? In fact I found your passion on the subject quite appropriate, until you made the leap that I support their killing along with the killing of whales.

Lets clarify what I did say. My point is that in Mexico a tradition exists, by the way one I don't condon, but is there just the same. A "culinary" tradition that is more widespread that you may want to believe. Awhile back there was a story here about a Governor partaking of Turtle in some celebration. Slowing I think the people of Baja are coming to grips with the reality of the health of the species. It is a complicated issue which isn't a simple Black and White one.

As a Gringo in their country I believe we have to waltz around some of these old traditions that we don't agree with, ie c-ck fights, bullfights, and dog fights. That is why I used the term Culture Clash. I'm sorry if you don't appreciate the nuiance of the situation.

As a matter of fact my friend a while back while motorcyle touring through the Mohave desert I passed a tortoise crossing the road, came to a stop, turned around and found him still on the pavement and carried him across the road.

Ken

ArroyoTaxi - 4-14-2009 at 07:38 PM

Anyone have any actual facts or proof? I smell a rat too.

ramuma53

roundtuit - 4-14-2009 at 07:41 PM

Can find profile ...can't find web site ????
http://www.hotelsanbuenaventura.com :?:

dtbushpilot - 4-14-2009 at 07:52 PM

Wow ken, I club them too....

Thanks for dropping that tortoise off at our campsite across the road, you should have stayed for dinner, it tasted like chicken :lol:

...

Me thinks that "ramu" is looking to ramu to Olivia and Marco....dt

Sharksbaja - 4-14-2009 at 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roundtuit
Can find profile ...can't find web site ????
http://www.hotelsanbuenaventura.com :?:

Try this:

http://www.munoz-industries.com/buenaventura.html

Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo people!

Wait a sec, there is sumpin fishy goings on hear! :wow:

Skip_Mac - 4-14-2009 at 09:52 PM

Woah.... wild allegations from Ramu...Mafia? Sounds insane.. I don't know the details..and I understand the cultural history issues are complicated. What is SIMPLE is the Real Estate war going on...that is the framing of the whole issue to paint one side badly. In this context I challenge Ramu to actually come up with a convincing set of proofs...rather than internet innuendo.

There may be no clear right/wrong...but I'll bet there is a clear balance of evidence in favor od one side or another..

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 12:50 AM

Well we are in Internet I think, a Real Estate war exist between people who actually buy land and hold it for proffit; here we have Olivia Higuera Aguilar claiming that Munoz papers are false and nobody bothered to ask her por proff; actually she made a formal complain to the Federal Police, who investigated the matter and who found out that the title was real and legal and that Olivia has no title or right or reason and the case was droped by the Federal authorities and anyone who want proff, there is no better place than the Public Registry with cadastral number 3-03-157 and Public regsitry number 340 book 178 in Santa Rosalia, you will find all the legal history incluiding the Federal investigation that finally recognized that the title was legal; even the Predial tax is paid on that property since 1971 to 2008 on Munoz name with no debt.
Now try to find anything there on Olivia's name, nothing, absolutely nothing, she only has a private contract with Ejido La Purisima afecting a piece of land on the Kilometer 94 to 95, but San Buenaventura is on Kilometer 93; she simply is on the wrong place and that is why the Ejido La Purisima droped the lawsuit against Munoz, they are no longer fighting him; now, do you want and American's independent opinion, just ask Mr. Thad Braxton who live in Buenaventura beach like me at thadbrax@yahoo.com , he is one of the people who Olivia claim Munoz took the house from him, but he is still there and not fighting Munoz at all but is being sued by Olivia who want to take his house from him through the Agrarian Tribunal at this very minute.
Here we have a person (Olivia) who acuse exactly of what she is doing, who don't have a single paper sustaining her property rights, acusing a person who have everything legal and who was catched in the act by federal police of selling as food a protected specie.
That is why I claim that there is no balance of eveidence between themat all, all the evidence is in Munoz favor and absolutely no evidence on Olivias favor and don't get me wrong, I will end up paying rent to one or the other, only I already saw all the legal evidence by myself and thorugh my attorney, simply Olivia has no legal case, only a newspaper case or an Internet case.
By the way, she is already out on Bail.

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 01:05 AM

And sorry about that tripledigitken I understand what you wanted to say and clearly know you will not buy illegal turtle now, but we are always claiming that there is no justice for Americans in Mexico but I think this show that there is justice in Mexico, not strong enought to hold her in jail for long, but I don't think she will have her restaurant for long after this.
Also if you want any proff, just ask Munoz at director@munoz-industries.com , he has always provided everything asked for, with no questions asked.

Cypress - 4-15-2009 at 05:43 AM

The hotel is/was totally seperate from the restaurant, in fact there was an ongoing legal feud between the hotel owners and the retaurant owners as to who owned what.

BajaGringo - 4-15-2009 at 06:23 AM

I am not that well versed on the subject of this feud and you (ramuna53) cite court cases supporting your position and land rights. I did a google search and found several articles in Spanish that seem to voice opinions to the contrary as far as the facts surrounding this feud/beach access, etc. That includes a recent interview with the Procuradora Federal de Protección al Ambiente, Maritza Muñoz Vargas.

My guess is there is more grey to this than black or white...

[Edited on 4-15-2009 by BajaGringo]

DianaT - 4-15-2009 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Regarding Mark and Olivia. Sometimes good people make bad decisions.

Yes, so true. Because it continues to happen, and was popular in the past, it is the law now and there are Mexican environmental organizations dedicated to protecting the turtle.

We met another gringo in Bahia Asuncion one day who was sharing some pictures with us---one being of the giant turtle out in San Pablo that they were going to be eating that night along with a local family. He did not know it was illegal, but once we explained it to him, he didn't care.

I hope word of the arrest of Olivia, whether right, wrong, set-up or whatever, will cause some to think twice about they are doing.

Diane

Hook - 4-15-2009 at 09:41 AM

I wish there were Mexican environmental organizations that were more interested in protecting more important aspects of their ecosystem..............like the fisheries. More important in terms of livelihood of their people. More important in terms of the overall health of the entire ecosystem.

And, yes, this wish is a tiny bit selfish, too............

shari - 4-15-2009 at 10:38 AM

There were some very good points raised about changes in cultural traditions....change comes very slowly and sometimes painfully but they are necessary to protect endangered species. Several people lately have been busted for turtle, lobster and abalone and it seems the locals are now taking it much more seriously as convictions and jail time are resulting.

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 12:31 PM

Well, Baja Gringo, that is the problem, I am citing court cases, and you cite me newspaper articles with personal opinions; if you call personal opinions evidence equal to court cases, then a problem arises; I am citing Public registry data, no newspaper opinions; I myself checked the legal data and found the public documents where they are supposed to be, in a public office and there you find Police investigations and the result of those, you find the Ejido La Purisima droping the claim that Munoz property is illegal and theirs, since he bought the land from the Federal government and part of the procedure was conducted with the Ejido signature and seal.
On Semarnap, Munoz is not on Federal Zone, his property is the land on the side while Olivia is holding a Federal Zone concesion that allow her only to have a Restaurant and palapas, her rent of bungalows ai unlawful as is to sell alchoolic veverages there; also and clearly selling turtle is not allowed and is unlawful.
Clearly to obtain a right opinion we have to compare the same kind of proff to one side or the other.
What I am saying is that Munoz have all kind of legal verifiable and solid proffs while Olivia has only newspaper opinions sent by herself and her husband.
Also, some of you sy you smell a rat; as if somebody had put the turtle on her, but remember that she was caught cooking it in her restaurant with the heads in the restaurant kitchen by herself and her cook who was also detained; if somebody put her up to that she must have participated and accepted to cook it and that is her own action, not something put there by somebody.
She was caught by a Marine commando operative, with a Propesca representative and Semarnao representative who were looking to all the commercial kitchens and she was one of the two catched in the act; they argue that the turtle was for their own food but they had 2 big turtles for a couple of people that is incredible; that is why she is in trouble, not because her land problems; lest not loose objectivity.

Cypress - 4-15-2009 at 12:43 PM

" Caught by a Marine commando operative" ? Where was the "health inspector"? :?:

baitcast - 4-15-2009 at 01:26 PM

Turtles have long been a favorite and not likely to change anytime soon,stew is fine but steaks and tacos are much better,the family was invited by PaPa Fernandez and son for a taco feed and a great time was had by all :biggrin:

Rob 1965

Note the shell.

[Edited on 4-15-2009 by baitcast]

[Edited on 4-15-2009 by baitcast]

Sharksbaja - 4-15-2009 at 03:22 PM

"She was caught by a Marine commando operative, with a Propesca representative and Semarnao"

That's what I call inside information. Not just a random check.

Mexicans big consumers of US exported turtles

tripledigitken - 4-15-2009 at 04:44 PM

It can't be assumed that all turtles consumed in Mexico are illegally taken animals.

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/us/Observations.htm

Ken

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 05:00 PM

As we know, they checked El Burro, the Hotel Buenaventura and several other kitchens, but in Bahia Concepcion only Olivia Higuera Aguilar in Restaurant El Zargazo and another Lady named Gorosabe on Requeson beach were caught selling and cooking it for sale, they caught another place near Constitucion, but they say they checked about 200 places with only those 3 catches.
The Propesca commisioner was in Baja for 3 days only coming from Sonora, so the operative was staged to take him to as many places as they could in those 3 days, his visit was published and only a fool may have been catched selling sea turtle, but aparently Olivia didn't care or didnt know of the area operative, but it was obvious, it was easter vacation, it happen all over Mexico, besides, those operatives should be more frequent.
Also, looks like a lot of people are very willing to accept sea turtle as food and don't mind people selling it, some sound like they are even hurt that she was caught in the act of cooking 2 big sea turtles, with a big pot of stew, 2 blody shells and 2 heads in her posesion.
My friends, that is a federal ofense and a hideous crime and more for sale, lets get our values straight and avoid double standards.
it is not up to us to decide how criminal this act is, it is a criminal act agaisnt nature, no way around.

Diver - 4-15-2009 at 05:43 PM

So ramuna53, who are you and why have you suddenly appeared on Nomads and other boards for the apparent singular purpose of feeding us your "facts" and attempting to "stomp" then down our throats ?

On another board it has been said that you are Sr Munoz.
Is that where this is all coming from ?
Who are you, really ?
Care to explain your real motivations ??

Cypress - 4-15-2009 at 05:44 PM

ramuma53, You've made your point. I agree.

mulegemichael - 4-15-2009 at 05:48 PM

Oops!....i think diver has hit on something here.

DianaT - 4-15-2009 at 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
So ramuna53, who are you and why have you suddenly appeared on Nomads and other boards for the apparent singular purpose of feeding us your "facts" and attempting to "stomp" then down our throats ?

On another board it has been said that you are Sr Munoz.
Is that where this is all coming from ?
Who are you, really ?
Care to explain your real motivations ??

While I think it would be interesting to know why ramuna53 suddenly appeared, but maybe it does not discredit all of his posts, IMHO.

Oliva may be a fantastic, wonderful person, but if she was cooking and selling turtle, that is against the law. Even if it was, as some suggest, a sting operation, well lots of people are caught in sting operations when they are breaking the law. While I really feel for her and her family and the possible consequences, it appears that there was a personal choice made here.

And, when dealing with the land issue, well, it may well be a very grey area---I know the situation my sister found herself involved with in the San Quintin area was a world of grey.

So, while ramuna53 may have his own personal motives, he does offer a different perspective.

Diane

ELINVESTIG8R - 4-15-2009 at 07:33 PM

As far as the land issue it's time for the extranjero to hire some gun toting security men who are not afraid to shoot if it comes to that. I read somewhere that homes were invaded by the mano negro. If it were my home I would not go gentle into that goodnight.

Pescador - 4-15-2009 at 08:26 PM

I think Diver is right, the grammer, spelling and pronunciation are all spanish oriented. So since we can assume that ramuma53 is not the Minnow, then it only seems logical that this is Sr. Munoz.
I think the point that we miss frequently is that we are visitors in Mexico and if we do not want to be considered "arrogant" we might want to keep a lower profile when it comes to making judgements about things that are illegal. It is their system and they have the responsibility to make sure it works and functions and a bunch of Norteamericanos passing their judgements and throwing their attitudes does nothing but inflame the division.

DianaT - 4-15-2009 at 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
I think Diver is right, the grammer, spelling and pronunciation are all spanish oriented. So since we can assume that ramuma53 is not the Minnow, then it only seems logical that this is Sr. Munoz.
I think the point that we miss frequently is that we are visitors in Mexico and if we do not want to be considered "arrogant" we might want to keep a lower profile when it comes to making judgements about things that are illegal. It is their system and they have the responsibility to make sure it works and functions and a bunch of Norteamericanos passing their judgements and throwing their attitudes does nothing but inflame the division.

From several years of teaching students for whom Spanish was their first language, I agree with you. Spanish, IMHO, is the first language of ramuma53.

I also agree about us being visitors and keeping a low profile is desirable.

But, curious, do you think it is wrong, or dangerous to support the enforcement of Mexican law? Just curious.

Diane

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 10:56 PM

Well Diver, even if I don’t write very often, that doesn’t make me new, I am registered since 2003 and that makes you the newcomer, not me, so I am not exactly new here, I am a tenant of Mr. Munoz who live in Buenaventura Beach and I am not stomping it down your throats, I just don't like wrong statements circulating without commenting on them and those are not my facts, those are public facts, legal facts that I know and that I have not just extracted from an newspaper; of course, I investigated it because it affect me, I live there, but I went to the bottom of it with my attorney and if you do that, you will find that Mr. Munoz simply is the land owner and that Olivia used to work for him and had only a power of attorney, then she was fired and got the Federal Zone on her name, while the Hotel that has never been hers, paid for it, and the bills are in the Hotel accounting to prove that fact; we the Buenaventura tenants have been there since 1994 and Munoz have been the owner since 1971 for what I know and with the Ejido knowledge and consent, I am not alone living there, Mr. Thad Braxton and Mr. Murphy and Mr. Stan Valentine also live there and all of them pay rent to Mr. Munoz not to Olivia, just ask to Mr. Stan Valentine how much money was extorted from him by Olivia and her husbands and if he has lost a penny with Mr. Munoz.
It just revolt my stomach to see how people just believe what Olivia print in the clearly interested party newspaper; just write to that newspaper and see if they print first page 8 columns 7 times what you said but they print even false statements from Olivia every time; yes there is a rat, but it is not Munoz and time will give me the reason, just wait for it, we really have time on Baja to wait for anything, or not?.
My question may be, why so much interest to protect a criminal? What I tell is a public true supported by public documents; why sustain the Olivia's myth as a victim when she is really the attacker and the known criminal; at this time she has 8 criminal prosecutions in Mulege and one Federal now; from wounding an American with intent to kill to robbery and damages and lying to authorities, just ask the district attorney in Mulege, not me; she was even sentenced for stealing from an American couple a few years back but anyway she never paid the money back; those are known facts by all the people who live near us and now you, because you asked suggesting a bad intention; if you ask, you will get hard facts about Olivia all over the place.

ramuma53 - 4-15-2009 at 11:29 PM

El iNVESTI8 of course I am Mexican by birth and my name is Eduardo Villa Arellano, I will never deny it, just worked hard in American and came back, my main language is Spanish, that fact is not a secret or the point here.
About protecting our houses, you are right because every year our houses get robed in October when we go to America, but armed guards are expensive and that is why we don't do it, but we really need them, that is true.
About calling Mr. Munoz "Mano Negra", it is a disrespect act, but it is because he always use a black glove, because of an industrial accident; also, as I told you, he has never taken anything from nobody here in Buenaventura Beach, just ask the hometenants here.
About the newspaper article saying that he took some houses in some other place, we laugh about it here, because he does not even know the place where those houses are, as they are shown on the newspaper and if you segest he took a house here, these houses are his property, we are just renting them from him, but anyway he has not taken anyone's house here.
Those are the lies I was talking about, printed in the newspaper without even corroborate them as true facts, clearly Olivias is trying to discredit him and she has a lot of expensive help and that is something that smell like a rat, but people who know him personally will always give you the real thing, he is not bad at all and will help anybody who need it, as many people can tell you here and in Mulege, we just don't care about the newspaper.
The other fact is that Olivia commited a crime by her own acts, may be a sting, but she fell for it, it is like as if I ask you to kill somebody and you do it; you will only do it if you are an assasin, even if it is a sting and stings are used to catch criminals all over the world, just ask Mr. Delorean.
The fact is that those sea turtles are dead because she cooked them to sell them as food and that is a crime, here in Mexico and in the USA too, she may had just refused to cook them as anyone of us would have done, I am sure.

Sharksbaja - 4-16-2009 at 12:02 AM

Well you said plenty and I'm sure there are two sides to the coin. Either way, she has never gone after Munoz or you, whoever you are on this forum as far as I know. You mention everyone by name except yourself and that isn't playing fair. If you want people to actually believe you here, you have to be a real person with a real name.

Anyhoo, can you tell us the state of affairs as it relates to the closing off and fencing of the area beaches. You seem to know everything going on there.

The closings deeply saddens beach goers and campers, swimmers and others wanting to enjoy federally protected shorelines. Many generations and countless travelers have made those beaches their destination for special times. A place they will always remember.

So terribly sad to see it fenced for private concerns. A real shame. I don't suppose Mr Munoz understands the gravity of forever changing the face and feel of those "Special Places in the World"

I say, don't become a greedy Donald Trump, just be proud to own and share your paradise with the world. Just the way it should be with special places.

It would be kind of you to share any knowledge concerning the changes occuring at several beaches in that immediate area. Are the beaches to be closed permanently? Thanks in advance.

(edit for sp.)

[Edited on 4-16-2009 by Sharksbaja]

ELINVESTIG8R - 4-16-2009 at 05:08 AM

Eduardo I'm sure Sr. Munoz has been called worse than Mano Negra. Disrespectful or not it makes the stories about him a little more sinister. I am sure this was done on purpose by journalists who I'm sure wanted a sexier story by portraying him as a mafia person. I am just thankful I never bought land in Baja California because of all the land problems and greed that goes along with it. My only connection to Baja California occurred when I was a starving homeless 14 year old Gringo who traveled down the pacific side of the peninsula some 42 years ago and was finally rescued by a wonderful lady. I have a strong connection to Baja California based on that. As far as Sr. Munoz is concerned if he is doing things lawfully through the courts I do not have a problem with it. But if he is doing business in an underhanded fashion with threats and intimidation along with court action then I hope he does not prevail in his quest. Of course this is just my opinion and like everyone else’s opinion I’m sure it stinks too. Saludos, David.

P.S. As far as that lady Olivia who was caught cooking cahuama the federal government can do with her as they see fit and lawful. There is no sorrow for her arrest.

[Edited on 4-16-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

meme - 4-16-2009 at 07:06 AM

Question Please?
Is it also against the law to be found in possesion of a discarded(no turtle) Turtle shell?

CaboRon - 4-16-2009 at 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by meme
Question Please?
Is it also against the law to be found in possesion of a discarded(no turtle) Turtle shell?

It is against US law to bring it into the states .

this is what they are saying on the Mulege forum

desertcpl - 4-16-2009 at 09:51 AM

http://bajaforums.com/mulege-online.html

DianaT - 4-16-2009 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
http://bajaforums.com/mulege-online.html

Interesting read---thanks

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

No, it is not clear by far, too much bull**** going on here, and as far as mafia is concern, mano negra isnt an angel as well.

[Edited on 4-16-2009 by JESSE]

desertcpl - 4-16-2009 at 10:21 AM

very confusing,,, I wonder if the real truth will come out

Byron - 4-16-2009 at 10:30 AM

I think this character first appeared in "Enter the Dragon".

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 10:35 AM

I dont know whats her name from the restaurant, if she did have turtle then shes an idiot and deserves to be jailed. BUT, this is just too easy for this old TJ boy to accept, something is just not right, the timming too good. Considering the crowd mano negra runs with, i wouldnt be surprised if a friend of hers was paid to plant the caguama, or to ask for her to keep it in the freezer for a day.

Right now, who ever claims theres papers to prove it is flat out liying. The lady has been arrested, thats all we have. But we havent heard her side.

CaboRon - 4-16-2009 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I dont know whats her name from the restaurant, if she did have turtle then shes an idiot and deserves to be jailed. BUT, this is just too easy for this old TJ boy to accept, something is just not right, the timming too good. Considering the crowd mano negra runs with, i wouldnt be surprised if a friend of hers was paid to plant the caguama, or to ask for her to keep it in the freezer for a day.

Right now, who ever claims theres papers to prove it is flat out liying. The lady has been arrested, thats all we have. But we havent heard her side.

Jessie,

You are far too defensive of this woman..

The turtle wasn't in the freezer, it was in the kitchen being cooked ....

And so what if she was set up ....

Would you cook turtle in your restaurant if it were offered to you ....

I don't think you are that stupid .

CaboRon

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Caboron,

All i know is that i have read different stories, some say caguama, others 1 skull, another several. So like i said, if the lady did sell turtle, then fine, send her to jail, but, i have a feeling theres far more to this story considering who her adversary is.

I am not buying anything until the official documents come out, and we hear her side of the story. You have to understand, it wouldnt be a far fetched thing to imagine this caracter offering someone close to this lady a parcel of land or cash to have her store or even cook caguama. But like i said, if she did got caught selling turtle and thats the real truth, then send her to jail.

Sharksbaja - 4-16-2009 at 11:05 AM

She probably understands the gravity of posting on the internet. Don't be suprised if you see reference made to BajaNomad in some future lawsuit.

When words are posted like we see here, it's just more fodder for lawsuits and litigation. Unfortunately this has taken place at a site dear to our hearts and stirs up our interest.

It seems that while we haven't received the real facts(that's up to the authorities) someone has chosen to plant poisonous seeds pertaining to property deeds and pending lawsuits. Wtf does that have to do with a stew pot of turtle pieces?

It's sorta ike calling the cops first. Looks and sounds like a well thought out scheme to me. Someone knows more than they are telling us. :rolleyes:

Still like to hear about those fenced beaches though.

BajaGringo - 4-16-2009 at 01:19 PM

ramuma:

If the lady and her husband were killing and/or cooking turtles they were wrong and we need to let the legal system in Mexico investigate and do its job. It will not be decided here on BajaNomad or any other forum where you want to you promote this PR campaign you seem to be so passionate about.

As far as the land and beach access, a court decision in your favor is not necessarily the last word in such matters. As you well know, here in Mexico as in the USA, court decisions can be appealed up to higher court levels, and often reversed. I am involved with one such type of case in the San Quintin area over land that has gone through such reversals and has now made its way up to the supreme court in Mexico, from where a final verdict is about to be given.

When the case and all appeals have been exhausted in the courts, get back to me. In the meantime I am finding a lot of evidence online stating that there are many who disagree with you, including several government officials and the Procuradora Federal de Protección al Ambiente, Maritza Muñoz Vargas.

I am going to wait to see how this does play out in the courts and we all know that may take awhile. Until then I will not simply accept your version of the story as a statement of the facts. Your perspective is obviously biased.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 01:29 PM

Ok. first Sharkbaja
Those are lies, Requeson or Buenaventura roads never were closed, and if you know the area, through Requeson road you can access any other beach; there were other 3 entrances that were closed for security reason; as you must know, last year an American was killed in La Armenta and closing all those entrances enhanced the area security because to enter the beaches you have to pass in front of a lot of people; so the bottom of it is that the beaches never were closed and it was a complete lie as every authority there is, found out because motivate by 5, 8 columns first pages on El Sudcaliforniano went to verify and ask every person arround, but when they arrived, Requeson was full of people and completely open, the same for Buenaventura; the funny thing is that the day the first news came out, the Estate police was there because they were investigating the roberies in our area, so the Police commander and agents are withnesses that the beaches were never closed.
That is what I am talking about, you have to be there to know the true facts, the nespaper is printing every lie Olivia send them, without even checking on it.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 02:08 PM

ELINVEST8 now, you are bringing out exactly the right questions, lets comapare the two caracters and I know the two of them.
Engineer Rafael Munoz Martinez, also attorney at law, was a Senate Candidate for North Baja on the 2000 elections, he owned then the ABC Baja newspaper and has a lot of journalistic trophies, past president of 2 small land owners associations in Rosarito beach, he was teaching martial arts ar the Army School when he was 18 years old, advisor for 2 lawmakers, congresswoman Mercedes Erdman and Mercedes Maciel, he founder of the Workers Party in Rosarito Beach and security advisor for the Mexican Army, I would trust any amount of money to Munoz while feeling safe and more would be overkill ok, but remember thr Army connection.
Olivia Higuera Aguilar, she used to work for the Electrical Company in Mexicali Baja, whith her ex husband Michael, she started bringing all kind of stuf from Central Mexico and bought even an airplane, they were bringing even wores to Buenaventura restaurant and one of them run off with her husband; two of her older brothers were killed in drug wars in Mexicali, she is a realtive of Martin Anaya Gorosave and just check on that one with your local DEA; she has 8 open criminal prosecutions in Mulege one of them for injuryes to an American with intent to kill and now one Federal for the turtles; she is selling alchool without a legal Federal permit for Federal Zone, she rent a house when it it prohibited by law to sub lease any part of Federal Zone and now she was caught cooking and selling sea turtle; also all arround here we see the unloading of boats at 3 AM and the next day a lot of policemen coming for 10 minute visits to her restaurant and have seen the army trying to catch them running all over the beach several times, she was sentenced along with her ex husband Mike for taking in a fraudulent way money from Mr. and Mrs. Christ, a couple who gave them money to build a house and got nothing and she never paid back a cent; she took more than $250,000 USD from my neighbor Mr. Stan Valentine who never got a cent back.
To who would you trust some money?
Also a lot of times, Olivia and Mark refuse service to Mexicans in her restaurant and refuse to grant access to the boats ramp and that is also against the law.
As you see, you have to know facts first hand to really have an opinion, but don't belive me, ask my neighbors who are Americans like Mr. Thad and Lora Jones at thadbrax@yahoo.com , or Mr. Stan Valentine or Mr. Murphy at TERRYRMURF@aol.com who are deffending themselves from Agrarian claims from Olivia, who is trying to get their houses. and gues who is helping us to keep our houses, Mr. Munoz.

BajaGringo - 4-16-2009 at 02:26 PM

ramuma:

Everything you say may be 100% correct. Maybe it is all 100% bulls**t - I really haven't a clue as I don't know you or any of the other players involved. What I do know is that you are much more passionate about this than just a casual observer and I also know that there is probably another side to the story which we are not hearing. When one is deeply involved as you are in this, it is almost impossible to be unbiased which is why I and others will wait for the truth to come out on its own, as it usually does over time.

I would suggest you consider using the edit function on some of your postings here as some of it could probably be deemed slander.

YMMV

rpleger - 4-16-2009 at 02:27 PM

This keeps getting better and better. He says, she says...

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 02:43 PM

One thing is sure, there is a +hitload of lies around here from both sides.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 02:46 PM

BajaGringo
Concerning the land, I am sorry to tell you that the land at this minute is not subjected to any trial, because the Ejido La Purisima backed up their claims against Munoz, because they found out through official channels that Munoz property title was good and legal after a 2 years investigation by the Federal Police because an Olivia claim, so there is never going to be a Supreme Court ruling because there is no trial, the only trials are Olivia against the home tenants, JUICIO AGRARIO: TUA-48-047/2006. POBLADO LA PURÍSIMA MUNICIPIO DE COMONDÚ and others against us;
trying to collect $250,000 USD from each one of us, but it has already been proved that her Ejido Land is 1 Km north of Munoz property and does not everlap.
At this minute nobody is challenging Munoz property rights in any court, all the claims have already been dropped after investigation.
Also, our topic was not about the land, it was about the morality of killing turtles and cooking them for sale; this started because I see that many of us, take this ban as a shalow thing, like if the bad thing is that she was caught cooking a big stew pot, with 2 bloody shells and two turtle heads in her trash can, all this in a restaurant full of people waiting for the food.
You acuse me of being biased, but I see a lot of bias from people who do not personally know the real facts or Mr. Munoz or the whole story.
Also you acuse Munoz of drug connections and say it as if you know it for a fact; if you knew him, you will know it is exactly the oposite, he is on the other side and I know that Olivia use Crack and cocaine because I have been there and I know that with Munoz, he don't even smoke cigaretes and drugs are out of the question.
My friends, any one of you have access to DEA, just ask for the two of them, you will get a very different opinion about both of them; there Mr. Munoz is known as Mr. Munoz while Olivias is known as "La Vaquera" and her Mafia realtive as "El Gordo" and just look at the records there.
Of course I am angry, but I am mad about those drug landings on our beach at 3:30 AM, the roberies and violence against all of us, who suposedly came to Baja to a paradise.
I also know a lot of people who think Olivia is a nice people, but not many Mexicans think like that, or for that matter any person who lives on Buenaventura beach Mexican or American.

Cypress - 4-16-2009 at 02:52 PM

meme, Good question!! Who knows? :?:

tripledigitken - 4-16-2009 at 02:53 PM

One thing this thread has done is kill any interest in buying property on your beach.

Ken

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 03:00 PM

tripledigitken
Don't worry, Munoz is not selling, but fore sure if it comes to that, I will any time buy a house from Mr. Munoz without losing my sleep and with time I asure you, this place is going to be one of the safest and legal places on Baja, we are not just reading newspapers, we are doing something and yes I am extremely biased against killing turtles and losing my house to Olivia.

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
One thing this thread has done is kill any interest in buying property on your beach.

Ken

Lets rename it, La Playa de Caca :lol:

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 03:02 PM

I forgot, slender is when you tell lies, just try to prove any of my words as a lie, you would find even more and more on the same direction, that is why I became bias, I wasn't, now I am, because I investigated myself.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 03:04 PM

Also Jesee, others already noticed it, why are you so adamant on defending her? what is your bias or hiden interest?

Bajajack - 4-16-2009 at 03:17 PM

Sounds like a typical mex soap, who gives a crap. :rolleyes:

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 03:19 PM

Bajajack
all of us give a cram, we live here and we ant to live in a lawful place, that is why we are in board, reading about Baja

BajaGringo - 4-16-2009 at 03:23 PM

Like I said before, I don't know you or any of the other players in this feud. You may be saying the truth or fabricating everything you have posted. This is just an internet forum and not a court of law. There have been a lot of allegations from both sides and I have found that the truth is often the first victim in these types of feuds, which is why I am going to wait and see how it plays out over time.

And now, please show me where I have accused Mr. Munoz of drug connections?

You need to chill out a bit my friend before you hyperventilate and then get YOUR facts straight. I have never accused this guy of anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
BajaGringo
Concerning the land, I am sorry to tell you that the land at this minute is not subjected to any trial, because the Ejido La Purisima backed up their claims against Munoz, because they found out through official channels that Munoz property title was good and legal after a 2 years investigation by the Federal Police because an Olivia claim, so there is never going to be a Supreme Court ruling because there is no trial, the only trials are Olivia against the home tenants, JUICIO AGRARIO: TUA-48-047/2006. POBLADO LA PURÍSIMA MUNICIPIO DE COMONDÚ and others against us;
trying to collect $250,000 USD from each one of us, but it has already been proved that her Ejido Land is 1 Km north of Munoz property and does not everlap.
At this minute nobody is challenging Munoz property rights in any court, all the claims have already been dropped after investigation.
Also, our topic was not about the land, it was about the morality of killing turtles and cooking them for sale; this started because I see that many of us, take this ban as a shalow thing, like if the bad thing is that she was caught cooking a big stew pot, with 2 bloody shells and two turtle heads in her trash can, all this in a restaurant full of people waiting for the food.
You acuse me of being biased, but I see a lot of bias from people who do not personally know the real facts or Mr. Munoz or the whole story.
Also you acuse Munoz of drug connections and say it as if you know it for a fact; if you knew him, you will know it is exactly the oposite, he is on the other side and I know that Olivia use Crack and cocaine because I have been there and I know that with Munoz, he don't even smoke cigaretes and drugs are out of the question.
My friends, any one of you have access to DEA, just ask for the two of them, you will get a very different opinion about both of them; there Mr. Munoz is known as Mr. Munoz while Olivias is known as "La Vaquera" and her Mafia realtive as "El Gordo" and just look at the records there.
Of course I am angry, but I am mad about those drug landings on our beach at 3:30 AM, the roberies and violence against all of us, who suposedly came to Baja to a paradise.
I also know a lot of people who think Olivia is a nice people, but not many Mexicans think like that, or for that matter any person who lives on Buenaventura beach Mexican or American.

JESSE - 4-16-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
Also Jesee, others already noticed it, why are you so adamant on defending her? what is your bias or hiden interest?

Dude, if you consider being biased the fact that that i want to hear from the proper authorities instead of gossip from chesseball newspapers that claim she is the victim and guys saying Muñoz is a great guy (obviously both are wrong), then i am biased.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 03:51 PM

Bajagringo
You are right, you did not said anything on Mafia, but we are discussing a topic here and others did it and I asure you the one who said it, got the point

It looks like many of our board friends make questions, but don't like the answers from people who are there and when it involves personal action, they preffer to just talk, but we who live here have to act and that is why we know every fact and when you get personally involved, sooner or latter you make your descision on where to stand and I am there, I know where I am standing and what I want, a clean and safe and drug free Baja with all its beauty parts in place for now and the future; here we are just talking, but you ask questions that have an answer that cost us a lot of actions and money to investigate.
Of course sooner or latter Olivia will come in Line, but she will not be able to explain why she killed the turtles or why she kooked them in her restaurant.
On the property question, I know that many of you don't know and don't really care to investigate yourselves, actions are only for the affected people like me or my neighbors, but if you are not ready to make a judgement, don't give opinions on matters that you are not ready to corroborate and give a first hand opinion; here in internet, we have the responsability to say the true facts we know, but also you can be questioned by anybody, even with fool questions or by people not really concerned who just say worng things, but that is the beauty of Internet, it is free speech, just if you ask, be ready to analyze the information you get back and this is not for you Bajagringo, is fo all of our board friends.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 04:00 PM

Jesee
you afirm that both are wrong, do you personally know any of them to afirm that any of them are wrong? I do, I know both of them and read the same newspapers, only I have first hand information, I am here and I can tell you, she in free on bail, Propesca will fine her $750,000 pesos, Profepa something similar and Semarnap will close her retaurant forever and those are news you will read in the same newspapers in the near future.
You really want to be able to say who is wrong, just go to the Agrarian Tribunal there in La Paz and ask, even the dogs outside know about this, but get first hand information and then tell us what you found.

BajaGringo - 4-16-2009 at 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
El iNVESTI8 of course I am Mexican by birth and my name is Eduardo Villa Arellano, I will never deny it, just worked hard in American and came back, my main language is Spanish, that fact is not a secret or the point here.

Just out of curiosity Eduardo, what is your relationship to Muñoz Industries?

Skipjack Joe - 4-16-2009 at 07:29 PM

Eduardo, I don't believe the destruction of these three turtles really bothers you all that much.

It's the demise of Olivia you're after.

Why not be up front about that?

mulegemichael - 4-16-2009 at 07:49 PM

wow, this is turning into quite the drama, huh?...and just who is ramuma53?...seems like he/she just showed up for the olivia/mark show...wanna give us some particulars, please...

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 11:30 PM

Bajagringo
To Munoz, I consider him as a friend but he is also my landlord, and you will find that same answer from all the house tenants in Buenaventura beach, to Munoz Industries, I would like to have a relationship, but no, sorry for me but I don't have any.

ramuma53 - 4-16-2009 at 11:49 PM

Skipjakjoe
About the turtles you are completely wrong since we have always tried to protect the sea turtles, some times when the fishermen bring the turtles for sale as meat, only some times they have them all tied up but alive and on those ocasions I have paid for them as meat and then released them in to the sea, they sell them for as little over a hundred dollars a big one and when I have them I do it; the crime is to harm them, not to pay to release them; all my neighbors really care about the Bahia Concepcion enviroment, it is our yard, I snorkel a lot, the same as them and the rays and the turtles are a joy to watch free, but the ray killings ar very high too.
On Olivia, she deserve this and more; I wont do anything to create her a harm but she do it herself prety good anyway.
If Olivia were a good neighbor, she may stay there forever as it concern to me, but she is not, she is the debil in paradise; I know she used to be better but her actions dictate our feelings; we used to go to her restaurant with Feliciano and have a good time, but now it is imposible, she is always high on something; she used to be beautyful, but just look at her now.
Anyway, now she is a known liar and an adict who cant control herself and that is why she have not been able to reach an agreement with Munoz; I know that he at one time he offered her $50,000 USD to avoid conflicts but, she went and started the fight; just a few days ago, in front of me, Munoz asked her to propose something within reason and the next day she started with the lies in the newspaper about closing the beaches.
What would you do with a neighbor like that? love her? No, I don't even apreciate her now and as soon as she go out of Buenaventura, the better for everybody, she is just prolonging her agony.

?????????????????????????

CaboRon - 4-17-2009 at 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
wow, this is turning into quite the drama, huh?...and just who is ramuma53?...seems like he/she just showed up for the olivia/mark show...wanna give us some particulars, please...

[Edited on 4-17-2009 by CaboRon]

BajaGringo - 4-17-2009 at 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
Bajagringo
To Munoz, I consider him as a friend but he is also my landlord, and you will find that same answer from all the house tenants in Buenaventura beach, to Munoz Industries, I would like to have a relationship, but no, sorry for me but I don't have any.

I really don't care who you are but I seriously dislike people coming on a forum trying to tell a story as solely a "concerned bystander" when in fact they are a principal player in the feud. Would you like for me to publish here in the forum the email address that you used to register from on TalkBaja? Email confirmation is required to be able to post there and the moderator log shows that you confirmed the address meaning that it is indeed your email.

If you want to retain any credibility here you are going to have to come clean and at least tell the truth as to who you really are. Many have already guessed it.

buenaventura

OLIGUACOMOLE - 4-17-2009 at 08:31 AM

To all concerned; yes, I have been involved in many different and some very bad situations, affecting my business for more de 19 years, my reputation, my image and my life of all the ones I love including our families and friends. I am not going to tell you all of the details of this lately federal offense that indeed happened in my restaurant on Saturday April 11th, Easter weekend, because is and going to be under investigation. I am working in my restaurant and my business is open that’s a big plus, yes it is a huge felony and you don’t stay out to tell the story, you go straight to a federal prison and might be 1 to 9 years in jail, but who ever is trying to nail me down didn’t do it right. I was not selling “soup”, I DID NOT KNOW because the food was bring to my restaurant cooked and ready to be serve, I was not making money with it, it was for a group of Mexican families from Ensenada and they were going to pay for the drinks and service as well for the use of the facilities of the beach and restaurant. The officials from Pesca and Sagarpa including the marines were there for hours and DID NOT find any illegal and/or out of season species in my freezers or refrigerators, what they found in a pick-up truck outside the restaurant in the garbage containers was these plastic bag with parts of a turtle, 2 heads, 4 fins and the chest or bottom part of it, NO BLOOD OR GUTS. Also parts were in a plastic bag type that I do not have here. No other parts were found.

Someone called after dropping off a blue covered pot at my restaurant and said “there is a pot blue with turtle at Buenaventura. Parts of turtle in trash, and drugs under the computer.

Rafael Munoz “el mano negra” mentions that I have several reports in Mulege for different “crimes” but HE does’nt say that he is the one that made all these accusations against me and fail in all of them.

If anyone has questions about me and wants to know more about these nightmare feel free to come to my restaurant, because I am not going to play this BS that Munoz plays.

Muchas gracias, Olivia Higuera.

OLIGUACOMOLE - 4-17-2009 at 09:10 AM

I am very proud of my wife Olivia who is 51 years. I think she has done very well against Munoz. We have been dealing with this individual for nearly seven years. Now with reading his posts some of you know what we have enured for all these years.

I have some handsome pictures of Rafael Munoz that i would like to share. How do i attach to a post?

BajaNuts - 4-17-2009 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
also I dare you to kill a Gray wale and then argue it is an Skimo Tradition, lets see if you manage to stay out of jail in any part of America.

Haven't read this thread until now, but I do have to inform ramu that it is legal to kill a whale in America. The Makah indian tribe on the Washington peninsula can legally kill up to 5 whales a year.
http://www.answers.com/topic/makah

Hope that I'm not stirring the pot too much by throwing that out there.

[Edited on 4-17-2009 by BajaNuts]

Cypress - 4-17-2009 at 02:11 PM

Shame on every member of the Makah tribe that participates in the slaughter! May they choke on the whale blubber stumble on their bones. :lol:

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