BajaNomad - Asuncion needs a firetruck!

Asuncion needs a firetruck!

shari - 5-27-2009 at 08:50 AM

Last night we had a meeting of the Protecion Civil which is like a volunteer emergency response team that leaps ito action for hurricaines, flooding, earthquakes, accidents, disasters etc. It is a small group of dedicated people in our village who could really use some assistance.

Last year, a woman donated an ambulance which has been well used but it needs new shocks and oxygen tanks. There is little funding for the group particularly now during the economic crisis here. They dont even have money to put deisel in the gas tank....so if you need to go to the hospital, the patient has to pay for the fuel.

The director asked me to post here to see if anyone had any connections to get a retired fire truck somehow. We have no firetruck at the moment and with the community growing it is an important thing to have. No problem if it has USA plates.

The other thing they need are new T-shirts....the ones they have are several years old and have holes etc. I'm gonna do a funds drive here for them to raise some seed money to have for emergencies...mainly for fuel for the ambulance and trucks used to respond to accidents and pull people out of arroyos in hurricaine flooding.

Any assistance or ideas would be appreciated..gracias amigos

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by shari]

Bajaboy - 5-27-2009 at 09:10 AM

Why not get some prizes donated and have a raffle at the festival? You could include fishing trips, lodging, tours, etc. Sell tickets to Nomads as well as to locals and visitors. I'm sure you could easily raise a significant amount of money as well as generating more tourists/visitors.

Just a thought.

zac

boe4fun - 5-27-2009 at 09:11 AM

Hola Shari, check your U2U. Paul

bajamigo - 5-27-2009 at 09:12 AM

Here's what we did in Punta Banda. I sent letters to several municipalities within 50 miles of the border as well as larger cities like LA. Bajaguy set up the LA connection and is "working" the north for us, mostly in Nevada. Bajaguy also distributed a PowerPoint presentation I'd done to plead our case to a few fire departments..

As part of this process, we stumbled across two excellent vehicles that were headed for the auction block. A PB neighbor who lived in that district persuaded the fire board to sell us the trucks at fire sale prices. Both are now on their way to PB. So luck is part of the equation.

We have also received an abundance of fire hoses, nozzles, turnouts, helmets, boots, lightbars, etc., from LA and Point Loma (the contact there is a long-standing member of this board, but I'll leave it up to him to weigh in if he'd like).

I learned that California towns can't give you the stuff because of liability issues, but you can pay a nominal price, like $1, and buy whatever if they're willing or compelled to sell.

When our new trucks arrive (a 1975 International and a 1999 Tahoe first response vehicle, both fully equipped), we MAY have a 1957 Seagrave pumper available, but I don't think it could make it to Asuncion.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying, "just ask." You may get lucky.

bajaguy - 5-27-2009 at 09:14 AM

The town council may want to consider an annual "assessment" of 100/200 pesos for each parcel that contains a structure.

In lieu of the 100/200 peso "assessment", parcel owners could donate in-kind services to the Fire Dept/community.

shari - 5-27-2009 at 09:32 AM

thanks for the ideas....hey a 1957 Seagrave sounds real funky...the coop could bring it down in their semi! keep the ideas comin!

Is it just me but

mexipep - 5-27-2009 at 10:09 AM

do most here agree that maybe the Mexican government should pay for their own fire fighting equipment. I am please as punch that you seem compelled to help but everytime you do this the authorities are left off the hook and see no need to help the people they represent.
Give a man a fish or teach him to fish,its your choice but you are not helping these people.

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 10:13 AM

peppy, what happened to that 'land of single malt' accent you so deftly add to the first few words of your other posts? :?:

Ah me stalker

mexipep - 5-27-2009 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
peppy, what happened to that 'land of single malt' accent you so deftly add to the first few words of your other posts? :?:

That was for you Pammy, me girl. You see, accents are hard to pick up in singing and through a keyboard in case you did not know. If you plan on stalking me, please send me a picture of yourself and since you have a charter company there,perhaps a picture of your best boat and I will let you know if you are suitable.

fdt - 5-27-2009 at 12:00 PM

Shari, there are ways to do this more efectively and that would be thru the state or city government of Mulege wich is the municipality Bahia Asuncion belongs to.
First of all the people have to organize and form an association (Un patronato pro-...), then contact Mr. Marco Ehrenberg Stiles at the state governmet, he is the director of international relations for Baja California Sur and you could persue the International Sister Cities program, Manhattan Beach CA is sister city with Mulege based in Santa Rosalia BCS.
These sister cities programs are great. Do it!

http://www.icfdn.org/publications/na2006/003_eme.htm

http://www.bcs.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&task=...

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by fdt]

shari - 5-27-2009 at 03:14 PM

The group Protecion Civil has been trying to go through "proper" government channels and nothing ever happens. they are told there is no money available. I understand the sister city method has worked for other areas so we will follow up on that lead...but ya know, it never hurts to ask. And as this thread proved...it pays to post to get some ideas on where to start.

Like the ambulance...it's a real good thing to have around when ya need one. the thought that someone's house could be saved if there was a firetruck in town is inspiring.

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 04:38 PM

Marco Ehrenberg?? Wow. Ferna, you have just tweaked a long forgotten memory. I guess that just like in the US, once you are in a certain class, your future is assured.

woody with a view - 5-27-2009 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
You could save a typical small house in most villages with a flatbed truck with a 2500 liter tinaco on it and a typical gas powered pump.
It does not take much water to put out what appears to be a large fire. It's more about knowledge of fire behavior.
Besides, you have to figure in the response time. It takes about 5, 10 minutes at the most once a fire is past it's incipient stage to fully involve a room and subsequently the structure depending on fuel load and ventilation.
You might be better off asking for hoses and nozzles to equip somebody's water truck and compensating that person for his/her availability.

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
The group Protecion Civil has been trying to go through "proper" government channels and nothing ever happens. they are told there is no money available. I understand the sister city method has worked for other areas so we will follow up on that lead...but ya know, it never hurts to ask. And as this thread proved...it pays to post to get some ideas on where to start.

Like the ambulance...it's a real good thing to have around when ya need one. the thought that someone's house could be saved if there was a firetruck in town is inspiring.

what he said....

much easier to arrange, not to mention the training/maintenance are minimal for all involved.

1st lesson = surround and drown!!!!!!

with time interior searches, along with techniques for securing utilities and fire suppression will become second nature.

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by woody in ob]

shari - 5-27-2009 at 06:54 PM

hmm...interesting idea about just getting some hoses hooked up to someones truck...problem is who's truck and will the guy be willing to take on the challenge...and be available at a moments notice in an emergency. We KNOW the protecion civil volunteers would but nobody has a truck like that but maybe some fund raising could get a big water tank and some hoses....wouldnt ya need some kind of pressure pump? I'm all for learning about fire prevention..what the heck is a time interior search and how do you secure a utility??
Maybe one of those hunky guys from the firemans calendar could come and do a workshop here!!!! I'm likin THAT idea

dtbushpilot - 5-27-2009 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
thanks for the ideas....hey a 1957 Seagrave sounds real funky...the coop could bring it down in their semi! keep the ideas comin!

This is actually part of the problem Shari.

How long do you think the fine volunteer folks in Asuncion could keep a truck like that maintained to a "ready at a moments notice" level? There have been many well intentioned fire departments who have cleaned up a truck that was otherwise headed for the bone yard (where it probably belonged) and donated it to some unfortunate "sister city" in Mexico. Lots of photo-op and good feelings but the reality is that they are just passing their junk on to someone else that will be depending on it while their house burns down because the truck won't start.

I know that you feel that anything is better than nothing and in some ways you're right. I wish that the well meaning fire departments that want to help their less fortunate bretheren would roll out one of the trucks that they depend on to do their job today and ship it South. They wouldn't use outdated equipment that they wouldn't bet their life on, why should the fine folks in Asuncion be expected to?

I don't have the answer, only fuel for the fire......dt

CaboRon - 5-27-2009 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
thanks for the ideas....hey a 1957 Seagrave sounds real funky...the coop could bring it down in their semi! keep the ideas comin!

I would like to add here that the truck is of little use unless the firemem can be trained in how to fight a fire. Otherwise not really effective .... Good Luck

woody with a view - 5-27-2009 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
what the heck is a time interior search and how do you secure a utility??

Maybe one of those hunky guys from the firemans calendar could come and do a workshop here!!!! I'm likin THAT idea

part 1: interior search = some SMART volunteer, not drunk person goes inside to make sure everyone has exited the structure and is accounted for, usually with a nozzle set to a semi-fog pattern leading the way.

part 2: utilities = making sure you aren't putting water on a fire that is involving your electrical system. you also might wanna turn off the gas supply at some time during the marshmellow roast, you know, to prevent ka-boom.

the hunky stuff is best left for the imagination....... whilst Juan is fishing :wow:

Alan - 5-27-2009 at 08:27 PM

Shari I'm sure a lot of us nomad firefighters would be happy to provide training but as for myself I'm sorry to tell you it has been far too many years since I have graced a calendar

shari - 5-27-2009 at 08:39 PM

hey woodman...thanks for that....uh huh....all makes good sense indeed. A workshop would really be great to train the volunteers.

woody with a view - 5-27-2009 at 08:59 PM

all good stuff Frank, but a smooth bore? that'll blow the fire right ACROSS the road into the next house. maybe with a certain amount of gloved finger pressure i guess it'll do.....

it's been a while, whaddo i know???

bajamigo - 5-28-2009 at 06:45 AM

Hey, Frank, what's with the "August 30, 2013?"

shari - 5-28-2009 at 10:25 AM

thank you all for your responses. This group is very dedicated group(not a bunch of drunks as inferred) The fisheries officer, Juan, Juan Luna and his brothers who are good mechanics and other upstanding citizens. Drunks dont like to get up in the middle of the night to assist in search and rescue nor go to meetings or training sessions for no pay.
These guys would learn quickly...and are very happy with the quick response you have offered. We are investigating the sister city suggestion...hey OB would be cool!
Shirts have been donated and will be printed up asap...gracias and a list of needs is being formulated.
Remember...it may be you they are pulling out of an arroyo next when you are sitting on top of your toyota roof in the middle of a raging river.

woody with a view - 5-28-2009 at 01:02 PM

i didn't mean to imply the guy with the truck would be drunk.

the day my toyota gets stuck, anywhere, i'm hanging up my maps.

good luck with all of it. it is nice to see you planning for the worst BEFORE bad stuff happens.

Alan - 5-28-2009 at 10:37 PM

Shari, I know we have donated tons of equipment to towns in Baja in years past but I seem to recall hearing a while back that when trying to take equipment down the last time they were stopped at the border and were required to pay duty on the equipment so no one is willing to bring stuff down anymore. Can't say that I blame them. I wouldn't want to have to pay duty or insurance for a fire engine.

desert_hiker - 5-28-2009 at 10:50 PM

Shari,

My thought as an ex-engineer is why bother with the expense of a truck? Would a few heavy duty flat-bed trailers with poly tanks mounted on top do the job? Ascunsion is fairly flat and high density--the distance is not that far to tow.

A lot of people have trucks already--and the distance is fairly short so I imagine that a 500-gallon tank (about 4,000lbs plus say 2000 lbs for the trailer) or a 1000-gallon tank (about 8,000lbs plus say 2,000lbs for the trailer) can then be mounted on a flat-bed trailer and towed to the location if needed.

As for waterpumps, check with Northern Tools. They sell high pressure engine-driven pumps. These can be mounted on the same or different trailers. Best of all, this should reduce the maintenance burden.

My concern is if you get a 1960's era truck and it breaks down or parts of the pumping system break down, where would you find the parts to fix it?

Best wishes.

Joe.

[Edited on 5-29-2009 by desert_hiker]

BigWooo - 5-29-2009 at 06:30 AM

Shari,

A truck will definitely be an asset to the community, but the key is to prevent fires from happening in the first place. One thing you can do immediately is to start a campaign to teach fire safety. How do most of your fires start and how can that be avoided? Is it due to propane leaks, shoddy electrical, storing gasoline, kids playing with matches, candles? You'd be amazed at how much you can prevent in the first place. You just need to get enough people involved to make it work or no one will listen to you.

Also be careful about what you eventually buy. A piece of junk that breaks down while guys are fighting fire can cause greater injury and loss of life than doing nothing.

edit spelling

[Edited on 5-29-2009 by BigWooo]

shari - 5-29-2009 at 06:45 AM

All very good points indeed which I will bring up to the group. Fires are usually human carelessness with candles, cigarettes and sometimes shoddy electrical too and that aint gonna change with education unfortunately.
I imagine the key to helping put out a fire is speed in responding so whatever they use will have to be ready to go at a moments notice. Perhaps the big tank on a truck bed would work with one of the engine driven pumps and some good hoses etc. But we are talking big bucks (for them) to get all of the above. Lots of fund raising and with things as they are here nobody can afford to donate when they cant afford to eat. Lobster season was poor, the coop hasnt paid the workers for a couple months...things are more expensive...the locals cant make ends meet...but that wont stop me from trying!!!
thanks again for all your suggestions...this is really giving the guys a boost.

BigWooo - 5-29-2009 at 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
All very good points indeed which I will bring up to the group. Fires are usually human carelessness with candles, cigarettes and sometimes shoddy electrical too and that aint gonna change with education unfortunately.

I've got to disagree on that one. Even with the cultural differences I think you can educate people not to set candles on combustible surfaces, or next to drapes that will blow with the wind into the flame, or why stereo cable is not good to use to power your TV and stereo, or why garden hoses don't make good propane lines. Most people don't think about the consequences of their actions. Some can't afford to make the changes, but those that can might.

fishsticker - 5-29-2009 at 07:11 AM

San Bernadino was just given a new firetruck 2 days ago bt the San Manuel Native American tribe. Maybe they will donate the one the new one is replacing.

Pacifico - 5-29-2009 at 07:42 AM

Shari,

A lot of great ideas have been posted here already on your need for a fire engine. For your town, I think a water truck or water tender would be best for your needs. In my opinion, a fire engine generally carries a lot of equipment that you guys would never need - for instance, they are designed to carry 1200 feet of hose or more for hose lays, etc. You would not need this much hose since you do not have hydrants. Also, old fire engines are a P.I.T.A.!!! (maintenance wise)
I would think that you guys would only need something that could pump two handlines at the most. For this, the water truck with an independent water pump as previously mentioned from Northern tools would do the trick. You could put a gated wye off of the pump so that you could have 2 lines and control them easily. You need something that carries a large amount of water with a reliable pump. The water truck could also possibly be used for other needs in your community.
We have donated equipment (fire engines, ambulances, etc.) to our sister city and the process can be a real nightmare. Equipment that is donated disappears along the way to it's destination and many hassles are encountered along the way.....

Here is one example of a pump:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/produc...
Not necessarily this exact pump, but you get the idea!

shari - 5-29-2009 at 07:58 AM

OK...so education is important...people here wont go to meetings, unless there is some sort of giveaway prize...but maybe a flyer would work...or maybe at a coop general meeting where you have a captive audience...a short presentation could be given on fire safety.
Fund raising for a water tank, pump, fuel etc. is in order too.

Bajaboy - 5-29-2009 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
OK...so education is important...people here wont go to meetings, unless there is some sort of giveaway prize...but maybe a flyer would work...or maybe at a coop general meeting where you have a captive audience...a short presentation could be given on fire safety.
Fund raising for a water tank, pump, fuel etc. is in order too.

How about educating the kids at school?

bajaguy - 5-29-2009 at 08:13 AM

How about home/business inspections by the Bomberos to educate home and business owners....this would also get the Bomberos out into the community for more visibility

boe4fun - 5-29-2009 at 09:48 AM

Shari,
The firetruck that I wrote you about that I saw in La Paz years ago certainly wasn't "brand new" but at he same time it wasn't from the 1960's. I'll forward any information that I get from Chief Callahan as soon as I receive it. I'll also see what I can find out about opening an account on the Sister Cities web site. Buena Suerte, Paul and Shelley

shari - 5-29-2009 at 10:01 AM

The director of the Proteccion civil group's brother is a great mechanic and could maintain a decent vehicle like they do with the ambulance they got donated.....it would be cool to have a sister city for a variety of projects.

Geo_Skip - 5-29-2009 at 10:11 AM

Many great expert and experienced comments here. One thing I have not read, is water capacity of a water truck. I drove a 2,000 gallon air force surplus water truck with a gasoline powered pump on the National Grasslands Lab one summer. (lots of fun when the water gets to sloshing and double clutched for every gear change). Is a 2,000 gallon capacity reasonable for fighting a small wooden house fire? I suppose bigger has a greater margin of safety, but what is a reasonable lower limit?

bajaguy - 5-29-2009 at 10:27 AM

I think it would be easier to obtain a 2000gal water truck (Tender in fire speak) with a couple of pumps and some hand lines. just paint it red or yellow and stick some lights and a siren on it......with some simple plumbing mods could add sprinklers or nozzles for brush work........you could also rent it out for water work around town and make some extra $$$

shari - 5-29-2009 at 10:47 AM

this is a great idea...I received a possible donation of some 1" and 1 1/2" hoses, nozzles and some gear. Problem is it is in Portola CA. Anybody coming down who might pick it up...even if someone could get it to a pals place in Sacramento or San Diego that would be fine....we're cookin now nomads...got a shirt donation and printing in the works too....who's got the lights and siren??

bajaguy - 5-29-2009 at 10:56 AM

If you can get it to Reno I might be able to get it to San Diego if you have a contact there

Alan - 5-30-2009 at 07:39 AM

You need to remember that not all pumps are created equal. For a "surround and drown" tactic (Which is probably your best tactic given the lack of SCBA's, protective equipment and proper training) a 2000 gal water tender would probably best meet your needs. If you can confine the fire to the house of origin you will have done well. If the wind is blowing, confining your fire to the zip code of origin may be the best you can hope for.

With that said nearly all commercial water trucks come with a pump. Unfortunately these are typically high volume/low pressure pumps that are driven by a PTO off the transmission. They are effective for watering roads for dust abatement but not for developing effective hose streams. To develop effective hose streams you need to add a pressure pump (ideally a fire rated pump). Look for one that is rated at around 200 gpm at at least 150 psi. There are many self contained units available on the market, especially look at the used equipment market. Older units are readily available powered by an air-cooled VW engine which most mechanics in Mexico are pure geniuses with.

[Edited on 5-30-2009 by Alan]

dtbushpilot - 5-30-2009 at 09:50 AM

No matter what we find the biggest issue will probably be getting it across the border. I'm guessing that if I were to come up with a used brush type fire truck (small, 1ton) it would be next to impossible to import it. I've heard lots of horror stories of a good deed gone wrong at the border.

Anybody have any insight or suggestions?.....dt

bajaguy - 5-31-2009 at 09:36 AM

Plenty of insight, plenty of suggestions......u2u me

BajaWarrior - 5-31-2009 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
I think it would be easier to obtain a 2000gal water truck (Tender in fire speak) with a couple of pumps and some hand lines. just paint it red or yellow and stick some lights and a siren on it......with some simple plumbing mods could add sprinklers or nozzles for brush work........you could also rent it out for water work around town and make some extra $$$

This is a great idea. A water truck can be purchased more easily in Tijuana, Ensenada, or Mexicali than importing. Renting it out for income is a good idea as long as there is a driver along with it so it is not abused...

Perhaps some water tanks with pumps mounted on pickup bed trailers, has to be a few junk trucks around that could be converted to trailers...

BajaNuts - 5-31-2009 at 10:10 PM

What kind of fires are you fighting?

Are they widfire/brushfires? Or are they domestic house fires?

My impression of construction in Baja is that a lot of concrete is used, and that's not flammable.

Depending on the causes of the fires, that should dictate your "attack" strategy. If it's domestic and the likely culprit is faulty wiring, then that's where you need to educate people. If it's natural, and the culprit is excess garbage in vacant areas, then maybe that's the area that needs the education focus.

shari - 6-1-2009 at 08:32 AM

There are many many wood houses here and most fires are due to human error...cigarettes left burning while passed out! candles, bad wiring is rampant...shorts in a system because of the salt air.

Terry28 - 6-1-2009 at 06:59 PM

Bajaguy, Terry, has the right idea...I have been to asuncion and I am a firefighter (ret.) Most "firefighting" there will be exposure protection, mop up and brush or dump type fires...No one there is qualified to do entry,earch type stuff...and most likely won't in the near future.. a water tender with either a pto type pump or a portable would work best...one inch lines are useless for structure fires except for mop up...no entering buildings...not equiped or trained...we are talking structure protection here.
They need 1 1/12 inch lines, combo nozzels and used turnouts or just nomes pants and shirts, and gloves...and practice.....but that's just my opinion.......

bajaguy - 6-1-2009 at 07:04 PM

Your opinion is well received, sir!!!!

woody with a view - 6-1-2009 at 07:53 PM

until this gets sorted out, have every member of the community install a fire alarm in their casitas. it's a small price to pay....

here is an example of a cheap fire alarm:
:biggrin:

oldjack - 6-2-2009 at 09:57 AM

Woody.....

thanks for that "smoke/fire alarm" that made me laugh enough to bring tears to my eyes.... I guess I just needed to laugh today... if that alarm would work I could be talked into donating to a fund to supply them to the residents....

shari - 6-2-2009 at 08:06 PM

woodman....definately wins the Laugh of the Week prize...thanks I needed that after a hot stuffy day in Sta.Rosalia dealing with incompetent officials!!!

bajaguy - 6-2-2009 at 08:07 PM

incompetent officials...............

Shari....quit repeating yourself