BajaNomad - san felipe south campos

san felipe south campos

desertcpl - 1-12-2010 at 09:49 AM

this was posted today on the san felipe net
does any one here have any more info on what is going on

"I just want to know why no one, I mean no one, will write about what is going on with the Americans in the South Campos. We are losing our homes, they are pressuring us to pay back taxes, build unwanted sea walls, doubling our rent, sign contracts that are more comical than anything else. Your web page says NEWS, the best you can do is about women’s underwear????? What the heck, do you write about the news or not! I think it’s important that we get the msg out as to what is really going on, everyone wants Americans to come back to Mexico, why, when we are being thrown out of our homes, with no help from the Mexican Gov. what a joke, the only ones making money is the landlords....... and us Americans once again being screwed. I’m not scared, what do I have to lose, keep an eye on the San Diego Union Tribune, the letter is written, maybe they will print it. This is ridiculous, my landlord has given me the option to pay his 500,000.00 debt back taxes to the Mexican Gov. or he will give me x amount of months to sell my house, or it becomes his, oh did I mention that he has to approve the sales price, what is going on here. I have no way out. This is going to get real ugly real fast, I would appreciate any help or ideas of what to do, if I’m better off walking away say so, I’m tired, and about as sad as I can be. Sorry to be so critical, but the only news we get is from you guys and the Gringo Gazette, neither of you guys are performing."

BAnn - 1-12-2010 at 11:15 AM

There is... a problem in some of the campos. The author of the above post is right. Hope things get settled soon. Some people are really in a bad situation. To many greedy people in the world! But there are some good campos.

BajaBros - 1-12-2010 at 11:34 AM

Which are the good campos and which are the bad? I have a friend with a home south of SF and I would love to know more details. Thanks.

smlslikfish - 1-12-2010 at 12:24 PM

Name Names!

BajaRob - 1-12-2010 at 12:35 PM

What camp are you in? Ed and Paula Bair recently lost their house to Javier Maduena through a court action. Roger and Pam Sue were forced to sell their house to the buyers of their camp or lose it at the end of their lease. The rumor is that the owner of Playa Linda is going to triple the lot rent. We are fortunate in that our camp was purchased by US citizens 4 years ago and our situation is stable. I would not want to be in a Mexican owned camp as the writing is on the wall.

David K - 1-12-2010 at 12:58 PM

Exactly... there are probably 50 campos between San Felipe and Puertecitos... which one?

It should come as no surprise to learn that when you invest/ build on someone else's land, you don't spend more than you can walk away from and have fond memories of the time you were able to enjoy paradise.

It is a sad thing still, and I feel bad and sorry for any honest person who had the land deal changed on them and has no 'rights' to compensation.

leases

akshadow - 1-12-2010 at 06:35 PM

More specifics would be helpful.

This could happen at any campo, and in mobile home parks in the US
but building on the land with 9-10 year leases is the way it has typically been done. Don't build more than you can really afford to lose.
How much was the original rental in the camp? Double the rent to $1500 per year would not be too bad, double to $3000 would be getting out of line.
People in the US put $50,000 mobile homes on rental lots in parks and pay over $300 a month many times with a very small lot and a higher tax structure. In most states these people have no rights and can be evicted when the owner wants to say, sell so a condo can be built.
I have a lease with approximately a ten year life, I would certainly hate to be evicted but it is a risk I was willing to take.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Exactly... there are probably 50 campos between San Felipe and Puertecitos... which one?

It should come as no surprise to learn that when you invest/ build on someone else's land, you don't spend more than you can walk away from and have fond memories of the time you were able to enjoy paradise.

It is a sad thing still, and I feel bad and sorry for any honest person who had the land deal changed on them and has no 'rights' to compensation.

norte - 1-12-2010 at 06:58 PM

Why do you guys sign leases for 10 years and then yell about the Mexicans at the end of the lease... sounds more like you are trying to pull a fast one. not the local

Sur2baja - 1-12-2010 at 07:20 PM

This particular issue is in La Perlita. After talking to Ed and Paula (and many others in the south campos) the issue appears to be that the campo owners were seeing a lot of money being made north of town and they wanted the same money for their south campo lots. Never mind that there are no services and the economy is in the crapper. There is all sorts of unscrupulous "things" going on down there and it's the worst i've seen in over 30 years.

David K - 1-12-2010 at 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sur2baja
This particular issue is in La Perlita. After talking to Ed and Paula (and many others in the south campos) the issue appears to be that the campo owners were seeing a lot of money being made north of town and they wanted the same money for their south campo lots. Never mind that there are no services and the economy is in the crapper. There is all sorts of unscrupulous "things" going on down there and it's the worst i've seen in over 30 years.

Thanks for that... I see from your signature you have a lot at Nuevo Mazatlan? That is where I practically grew up loving Baja! It was the first beach camp in the region and only Percebu and Coloradito were in existance between San Felipe and Puertecitos back in the 1960's.

Here is the founder of Nuevo Mazatlan, Luis Castellanos Moreno and his wife Felicita back in 1972 with me (13-14). It was Luis who gave the campo that name (it was formerly 'Agua de Chale') about 1966... and it was he who planted the salt pines to create the beautiful forest to camp in starting about 1969.

Luis had a drinking problem and lost his wife and later would lose his life's work when ownership changed to Javier sometime after 1980... I last saw Luis on the streets of San Felipe in 1989. He called my parents his brother and sister... and when I was an adult I too was his 'brother'.

More at http://vivabaja.com/nm

[Edited on 1-13-2010 by David K]

arrowhead - 1-12-2010 at 08:33 PM

Where's Donjulio? He the man in San Felipe with the answers.

arrowhead - 1-12-2010 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by akshadow
In most states these people have no rights and can be evicted when the owner wants to say, sell so a condo can be built.

They have the right to move their mobilehome elsewhere. It's theirs.

Donjulio - 1-12-2010 at 08:43 PM

I am right here. Unfortunately its more fun for people to speculate about what is happening instead of listening to what is really happening. I have mentioned it several times before. What is happening here in San Felipe and south is not pretty but people just want to argue. It really isn't worth my time to get involved anymore.

chernefitter - 1-12-2010 at 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
I am right here. Unfortunately its more fun for people to speculate about what is happening instead of listening to what is really happening. I have mentioned it several times before. Well whatever it is it doesn't sound right for the long term folks who have put in time and money, which in turn helps out the surrounding communities. Hope it gets resolved quickly.

chernefitter - 1-12-2010 at 09:33 PM

my apologies to donjulio some how i tried to "quote" him and give my take on things and my words got thrown in the quote box with him. First time user on that thing, maybe should be the last :?:

Campo San Antonio K43

El Comadante Loco - 1-12-2010 at 10:07 PM

A couple of friends and us have been leasing our lots at campo San Antonio since the late 80's. We love the place have built a small and comfortable casita. For the first 15 years or so before Antonios death all was well. Antonio was a simple man of wisdom, grace, integrity, his word was his promise and his honor. After his death things started to change. The camp was now run by his wife and two drug addicted sons Emiliano and Tony. The rents went up from to $500.00 and 3 yrs ago rose to $800.00. Given our location and lots we have we did not consider the rent increases unreasonable. Certainly, the vistas, sunrise, sunset, stars , all the friendships , memories and family enjoyment we have experienced over the years far supersedes the cost of the rent.
Over the years we have had our share of problems with thefts. My house and storage shed have been broken into and various items stolen including my Suzuki Samurai. Several attempts have been to take my Trooper, the dash and ignition have been ripped out. Campo residents all suspect Emiliano and Tony as the culprits in the thefts and breakins. In fact each time I leave I know that what ever gas is left in the Trooper will be drained out. Neighbors have reported that have seen Emiliano and Tony break into trailers and take my gas. Things get worse as their drug addiction go unabated. I rationalize all this and put up with it as a pain in the rear that is part of the price I have to pay for this piece of paradise.
Now what is worse than the pain in the rear is that with the death of Antonio the campo was never recorded in his name in Ensenada. As part of the Ejido Delicias each Ejido member did receive from the Federal Government a certificate, kind of like a grant deed that had to be processed and recorded as part of the Municipio de Ensenada. Antonio started the process but never completed it. Antonio died intestate, his wife eventually was recognized as the rightful owner but now she has died intestate also. It is doubtful if she ever got the land recorded. The problem now is that there are 9 siblings and the fight has started over control of the campo. The eldest son, Francisco, was appointed by the court as the executor but he has to deal with some angry siblings. My contract expired in Feb of 09, will I get another quien sabe? In my conversations with him he is not optimistic that they will reach an agreement over how to split the campo 9 ways and will eventually sell the campo.
I fully agree with what has been posted. Do not invest any more than you can walk away from. If I have to walk I will but will take priceless memories with me and no one will have my house. Is it worth it, yes a thousand time over. Nothing last forever.
I am fortunate to have dual citizenship and 2 yrs ago bought 100 meters beach front at Campo Linares, Ejido Matomi. Buying land in Mexico is very complicated. Yet another story. It took us almost 2 yrs to get title.. If I have to someday I will just move there but for now I will enjoy my casita and treasure the time I have to spend there and the memories that come with it.. Enjoy!!!

Donjulio - 1-12-2010 at 11:51 PM

El Comandante Loco - Just a suggestion. I completely understand your anger and frustration. There are a few things that even though they may be true, you might want to take out of your post. IE: Using names and drug addicted etc.

You can set yourself up for very unpleasant legal consequences even if what you say is true. Remember here you are guilty to proven innocent and all it takes is an accusation of slander or libel and you are in serious trouble. They put you in jail and ask questions later.

arrowhead - 1-13-2010 at 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
You can set yourself up for very unpleasant legal consequences even if what you say is true. Remember here you are guilty to proven innocent and all it takes is an accusation of slander or libel and you are in serious trouble. They put you in jail and ask questions later.

Mexico decriminalized slander and libel in April, 2007. It is now only a civil matter at the federal level. Baja California does not have any criminal penal code for slander or libel. All those tweekers can do is sue Commandante Loco, if they can steal enough to pay for a lawyer.

mcfez - 1-13-2010 at 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBros
Which are the good campos and which are the bad? I have a friend with a home south of SF and I would love to know more details. Thanks.

Campos Ocotillo!
6 miles north of town. It’s been around for 15 years or so…and no problems to say. Recently Salvador “retired” only to have his college educated daughter take over. The Campos got better! We were among the first to get power and piped in water. Rent is cheap. ….but we did a few things in case our lease isn’t renewed. A house was built that we can afford to lose and we bought (own) land across the highway in the Edido should we have to move….. we don’t expect that to happen. But it may happen!

I suggest that if you are to lease and build ……rent a house in a Campos that you are interested in, for a year or so. See how it operates. Then lease in and build. No matter how careful you are in the process….there WILL be surprises (good and bad)!

We look at the South Beach area time to time for the hell of it…..and think that the operations down there are overpriced, over regulated, and “just ain’t Baja”!

For a good lesson on “how to lose your shirt”……read into the history of Puertecitos.

That's just my opinion.....

wilderone - 1-13-2010 at 09:26 AM

I love my $125 tent and free camping. Same sunsets.

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 09:27 AM

Arrowhead - They will still take you, put you in a cell for a night, a weekend a week or whatever. It recently happened here. They will jail first and then figure it out latter. We see it in San Felipe all the time unfortunately. Course it might be different for him in the south campos. They are dealing with Ensenada.

David K - 1-13-2010 at 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
I love my $125 tent and free camping. Same sunsets.

DITTO!!!!

Sur2baja - 1-13-2010 at 09:30 AM

The issues in the South Campos are the exception and not the rule, however they are becoming more prevalent and serious. Our Campo (Nuevo Mazatlan) has'nt experienced any of the issues described and the owner and tenants have a very good relationship (ask David K!!!). With that said the advice that was given to us 38 years ago still stands today. Do your homework, get title insurance and be prepared to walk away if something turns brown. Ed and Paula in La Perlita were some of the most dedicated fulltimers I've ever met but they finally said enough is enough and moved to the west coast. Something to think about.
I read comments about greed on the Americans part but I that is not the root of the problem. IMHO the issue is you have a few uneducated (in the business sense) property owners who want more and more money but they don't understand the basic supply and demand side of the business. Yes, they are getting more money in the north but they also have many more services and it is quicker to get to from the states. When the Americans balk at the rate increases, it has to do with the lack of services for such a basic piece of property. With that said, we moved to the south campos many moons ago because we didn't want to see the power lines, seer lines, roads, traffic, people, etc. I'm sure many of you feel the same (my perception only!) I don't mind paying the increase in rent when I see the money actually put to good use. Again, in our case it is. Enough rambling. lol

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBros
Which are the good campos and which are the bad? I have a friend with a home south of SF and I would love to know more details. Thanks.

I am sorry but this is why there continues to be problems with real estate in Mexico. The backup for the leased land is Ejido land.

Bajajorge - 1-13-2010 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
I am right here. Unfortunately its more fun for people to speculate about what is happening instead of listening to what is really happening. I have mentioned it several times before. What is happening here in San Felipe and south is not pretty but people just want to argue. It really isn't worth my time to get involved anymore.

People just want to argue?

You should go on the El Dorado site if you want to see argue. :lol:

Campo San Antonio K43

El Comadante Loco - 1-13-2010 at 10:36 AM

Thanks for the input and I understand that there may be consequences however there has come a time where we must speak openly and with the truth. I did ponder the decision to post the names of the two drug addicted sons and decided it was time. What I have posted regarding these two characters can be sustained with photographs, police reports, eye witness reports, including family confirmation of their activities.
I strongly think that we must share our experiences and to name names for others to decide where and with whom to get involved with.
The good news is that they have been absent for the past two months after they were questioned by police about breaking into a trailer.. Rumors are is that have voluntarily checked themselves into a drug rehab program.. Unfortunately, this is not new as they usually check themselves in when things get to hot for them. I hope one of these days the rehab will stick..

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
I am right here. Unfortunately its more fun for people to speculate about what is happening instead of listening to what is really happening. I have mentioned it several times before. What is happening here in San Felipe and south is not pretty but people just want to argue. It really isn't worth my time to get involved anymore.

People just want to argue?

You should go on the El Dorado site if you want to see argue. :lol:

Yeah lots of that going on. But can't blame some of them either. They were promised a lot. They got some of it but not near the promises. Pat did the same thing that pretty much everyone did. Spent money speculating property instead of putting it back into the development. Granted he put millions in but still...everyone borrowed (not robbed) from Peter to pay Paul. Now Peter showed up and nobody can pay him back.

El Camote - 1-13-2010 at 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge

People just want to argue?

You should go on the El Dorado site if you want to see argue. :lol:

Jorge,
Which El Dorado site? Do you have the URL?

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 11:53 AM

I only know of two developments in all of San Felipe that are currently selling that are not/have not been involved in lawsuits. Two - out of all of them. And there are many more coming. Now is definitely time for buyer beware. And I have to tell you, the laws regarding foreigners owning property are so new, that not only are they not enforcing them but a good majority of the attorneys and Notarios don't completely understand them.

They have 20 year old girls doing fidiecomisos in some places. They have not been trained or gone to law school or studied real estate law. Let me give you an analogy of how real estate works here. If you ever watched a crew build a house down here, you have seen many times when they would build the wall then knock part of it down to put something in. Or they just build it and figure out will do it this way and then fix it later but lets get it done.

I can tell you one question that is out there to the attorneys right now. It is a question that was put to the attorneys and notarios back in November. Nobody seems to know the answer and I will tell you the question as I explain the scenario.

F4 (final permits) are required here in order to issue title or fidiecomiso (unless its a condo regime and thats a different story). In order to get the F4 the infrastructure that a developer is supposed to complete is supposed to be put in or the developer is supposed to post a bond in order to complete the infrastructure and amenities. The developer has two years to complete the requirements for the F4 after it is issued.

There is a development here that has had the F4 issued and that has issued Fidi's. BUT the developer has not completed the required infrastructure and amenities required by the F4 for the development and it is long past due. The question raised by the attorneys is:

Are the fidiecomisos that have been issued legal or not?

Because the developer defaulted on the requirements for the F4 this is in question.

Nobody knows the answer. I guess it will come and then what happens if they aren't? Re-apply, pay again? There are so many unanswered questions and issues. Unfortunately anyone can sell real estate here and most don't care about issues like this.

There are so many inconsistencies. There is another thread talking about permits and buying property. "Supposedly" you HAVE to have an FM3 or Mexican Corp (foreigners) to buy property. But you can see in that thread all kinds of stories of people that bought without. So what happens later on when that comes up? We won't know until it does. But it will. Will those fidi's be invalid?

I know someone right now that owns a million dollar beachfront house and title is held in a Mexican Corp. He lives in the house. Supposedly that requires a fidi. Corporations owning property are supposed to be commercial use and not residential. BUT a notario told him different. Whos right?

There are condos for sale here that have a 90 year lease. The guy put the condos in his corporation and then sells them with a 10 year lease renewable 9 times. A lease is only good for 10 years and then it is null and void. So is anything that is written in it. Not only that but the property is built in the Federal Zone and has a 15 year Federal Concession. What happens if the concession doesnt get renewed?

With campos and leases, as a lot of the original owners die and pass the campos on to their families these issues are going to come up. It may be great today but when there are 5 kids that own it and they arent interested in splitting a little rent 5 ways, it becomes a different story. You have zero guarantees.

Contrary to what some people want to believe there IS a certain person buying up the campos and the Mexican people know this. This buyer doent want to buy properties where they have to deal with tenants. The road going down to Gonzaga is not being put in to make getting to the best fishing spots easier.

There are two guys that opened an office here over a year ago. They represent certain parties in Mexico and they are buying campos and they are also heavily negotiating. They don't advertise who they work for but if you ask them they don't deny it either.

If you talk to some of the owners of the larger parcels south they will tell you they have submitted development and subdivision plans to Ensenada and have been turned down and told they werent approving anymore subdivisions south.

What does that do? Drives the prices of the campos down. I bet when the company that is buying them gets all of the property they want or need that all of a sudden the city will decide it is time to develop again.

I am slowly but surely getting out of the real estate business completely here in Mexico and will not get involved again. I have a few loose ends that have to be tied up.

I came down to Mexico with a lot of the hopes and dreams that everyone else did. The difference is that I am 49 and I still have to work for a living. I came down here specifically to do real estate and have done it for 10 years both here and on the mainland. I was a licensed real estate agent in two states in the US, not someone who just came down and decided to take up a new career.

The economy is making a lot of people do a lot of crazy things. San Felipe was built on equity. That just isnt here anymore. People are hurting. There are still a lot of people down here who have dirt floors and no water and electric. Unemployment is really high. Desperate people do desperate things.

I will tell you this. If you want to really know what is going on you cannot rely on gringos for your answers. You have to get to KNOW the Mexican people. Lots of retirees sit around here at the local pizza place in the afternoons drinking their margaritas and telling stories about so and so said this and did this and I heard that yada yada yada. Rumors are rampant cause people get bored.

Ask the Mexicans whats happening. But if you want them to answer you honestly they have to trust you. That doesnt always happen easily.

[Edited on 1-13-2010 by Donjulio]

arrowhead - 1-13-2010 at 12:49 PM

So then, to paraphrase a board maven, "the problem with Mexico is Mexico."

Sur2baja - 1-13-2010 at 01:35 PM

Nice perspective so are you trying to tell me my grandkids someday will be spending spring break at the "South San Felipe KM 32 Golf Resort and Pool Bar" and be telling stories of when grandpa used to have a house where the ninth hole is?

David K - 1-13-2010 at 04:54 PM

From what DonJulio is saying, nothing much good comes with the pavemnet of Hwy. 5 to Laguna Chapala.

Mama Espinoza upon seeing pavement arrive in El Rosario in 1973: Bad roads bring good people... Good roads bring ALL kinds of people... or to be not so PC: Good roads bring BAD people!

desertcpl - 1-13-2010 at 05:42 PM

I know this has been an ongoing problem for many years,

well anyway , I am heading to San Felipe in the morning for 4 days, I dont own anything there,, but wouldnt mind renting, we have friends in Eldorado ranch,, they have been there a long time and love it,, guess a few years ago they was able to take title on the property,, they are very happy

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
I know this has been an ongoing problem for many years,

well anyway , I am heading to San Felipe in the morning for 4 days, I dont own anything there,, but wouldnt mind renting, we have friends in Eldorado ranch,, they have been there a long time and love it,, guess a few years ago they was able to take title on the property,, they are very happy

Rents here are phenomenal right now. Find a house for sale and negotiate with the seller to rent it. There are lots of houses that have been on the market 1-2 years. Better for them to have someone in it than let it sit empty.

requirements for developments and sale

akshadow - 1-13-2010 at 06:03 PM

The great "they" were saying this fall that a well known campo north of San Felipe had been going to fo to sale of their lots instead of leases. The camp is an older established campo and most lots are leased.
The story was it was going to take $2 million us to put in all the required utilities, road sizes etc. It was going to take parts of many lots because the streets were not wide enough to accommodate fire trucks etc.
The point being, sales of lots in most campos is really not very feasable if they are going to follow the "rules"
Ejido property seems to have many problems that are ignored by most people who buy the property.

norte - 1-13-2010 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
From what DonJulio is saying, nothing much good comes with the pavemnet of Hwy. 5 to Laguna Chapala.

Mama Espinoza upon seeing pavement arrive in El Rosario in 1973: Bad roads bring good people... Good roads bring ALL kinds of people... or to be not so PC: Good roads bring BAD people!

Or it could be that nothing good comes of people moving south to buy cheap thinking they will live the northern life. Most people I know that moved south only did so because it was a "good deal" and now they are whining, They should have stayed North with me.

Sur2baja - 1-13-2010 at 06:46 PM

I totally disagree. Most of us in the south campos don't want what is happening in the north. Our Poblado is about all the development we want to see. Living "off the grid" is what we like.

arrowhead - 1-13-2010 at 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Camote
Jorge,
Which El Dorado site? Do you have the URL?

I think he's talking about this website:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eldoradoranch/

BAnn - 1-13-2010 at 07:30 PM

We did not move south just for a good deal! We moved south for the peace and the sea. There is not that many places on the beach in San Felipe any more. The campo we are in is very quite, except on holidays. But that is ok with us. The people that come down on holidays only get to spend a short time here. We get to stay as long as we want. So no complaints from us. So far our campo owners have been very friendly and fair to us. We are going to enjoy our lot as much as we can for as long as we can. We are in a better position then most we live in our fithwheel and can walk away easier then most. But I feel bad for the people who have houses down here. Its risky to put a lot of money into building. I for one would not put that much of a investment into any where in Mexico.

norte - 1-13-2010 at 07:41 PM

So you have a lease and are ready to move out when it is up? Just like an apartment up here?

If so you are in the minority. Read this thread.

BAnn - 1-13-2010 at 09:33 PM

We are not talking about the states. We are talking about Mexico. Do we plan on leaving when our 5 year lease is up NO!NO! We plan on staying here. We hope to get another 5 year lease. I was just saying that if there was a problem we could move our fithwheel easier then some one who has a house. I think the people who are having problems with their leases should put up as much of a fight as they can. I know some have been here a long time and it is simply not fair to say-- well its Mexico and that is the way it is. We all want our place in the sun with out any worries about getting kicked out. With the economy we have today to double and triple the price on leases is ridiculous.

Donjulio - 1-13-2010 at 10:41 PM

A lease is a lease is a lease. It is normal for a landlord to change their mind about a lease anywhere in the world. And thinking that $800 a year is too much rent is just plain nuts. You can't dry camp in a tent in the US for that, much less at the beach.

more about this on the san felipe net

desertcpl - 1-14-2010 at 08:02 AM

http://www.sanfelipe.com.mx/news/index.html

rts551 - 1-14-2010 at 08:13 AM

I agree with norte and Don Julio. Just because its Mexico doesn't mean that a lease is forever. If the lease was for 10 years (or 5 or whatever) then at the end of that period its time to renegotiate or move.

Donjulio - 1-14-2010 at 09:22 AM

One of the problems that I have seen here over the years is the thinking "If it is slow, raise the price to make up the difference". Doesnt make any sense but I have seen it across all businesses. Shoot even an American developer just raised his lot prices from $20,000 to $30,000 - 35,000 after having no sales. Don't know what they are thinking.

Unfortunately we can't explain to the owners of the campos that their real estate has gone way down in value. And reality is the road has been paved to those campos for a long time. Electricity and services aren't coming anytime soon and it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars just to do subdivision plans and get permits and several million to put in utilities. They can't pay that so what are they going to do?

Campos that were $600,000 - 800,000 in 2006 are selling for $150,000 - $300,000.

When all the sh#& that is about to hit the fan here, hits the fan, real estate values will be half of what they currently are because you combine that with all the other bad press and we're done. San Felipe is already a ghost town.

It is headed back to sleepy fishing village status which is ok with a lot of people. If you know Mexican people here that are "really good" friends, ask them what the general sentiment is towards the Americans. They will tell you that a lot of the local people resent the Americans coming here, buying up all the best property, driving up the costs of everything and coming and going as they please. Thats just how a lot of them feel. Not all of course.

dzrtracer - 1-14-2010 at 12:20 PM

We had been nomads of baja since 1980, but tired of dragging a trailer and driving the motorhome we found a south campo we liked and bought a house about 4 years ago and lease the land. Before we bought the house we arranged a meeting with the dad and most of the family and they were very forthright in telling us leases had not be increased in many years and they would be going up.

The father was one of the old time land owners and cut deals according to money needs or vehicle or equipment needs. Sadly he died a year after we came in, the family who is all well educated and fantastic people have gone through the who is going to run what and that seems to have settled. Where the problems and complaints started was when the old timers in the camp had to bring their lease rates up to what all new comers were paying at renewal time without special deals. I don't have a lot of money but I never thought they were asking to much for such a beautiful location, (I should mention we pay quite a bit more than the amounts posted in other comments). They are wanting to run it as a family business that has a future for their kids and to do this they have to budget for the year with a goal to have a standard lease rate per lot without having to keep track of "special deals".

On the topic of increasing leases in a down economy they are very aware of the US/Mexico economies as such they know you can't charge more when there is less money available, and it isn't going to improve either side of the boarder for quite some time. And without tourism house aren't selling so they are not even getting the sales fees.

We did as much homework as possible, new that 10 years lease was max, had our FM-3's to sign the lease (we know of someone that won a court case with their lease and without FM-3 judge would never have even heard them), copies of lease in both spanish and english and they are registered in Ensenada.

As many have said if it comes down to it you have to be able to walk away witout hard ship, it is a third world country and things can and do change but we respect our landlords, they have been good about sharing information about their financial struggles, along with future goals for the campo. Not to mention I have met some of the most wonderful and generous people south of the border.

David K - 1-14-2010 at 05:02 PM

Thanks dzrtracer and welcome to Nomad!

NandLinbaja - 1-16-2010 at 11:53 AM

We also have a home in the South Campos. It seems in reading many of the posts here, people want to point fingers at each other and point out how we should have known better than to invest down here. That's fine but I think you do a disservice to the decent Mexicans down here if you just accept the assumption that they are all corrupt. We came down when a handshake was a man's word and it meant everything. The campo owner who is kicking people out of his camp is not thinking of the big picture here. No one will be willing to buy into his camp now and he is cutting off the income via lease payments that he was getting. Even though most of us are not having the same problem, we do worry about the precedent this is setting.

We have gotten to know many of the merchants in town and they are really hurting because of the general bad press (drugs, killings, etc). Now this action by a few campo owners is also keeping Americans away. These people have become dependant on the US dollar so THAT is the bigger picture we are looking at.

We have a sizable investment in our home (we are full timers) and of course would not like to lose it. We are not whining however and will stay and enjoy for as long as we can. We are optimistic that this will pass and hopefully we can ride it out. Having said all that....I don't think it wrong for us to expect decent behavior out of the Mexican people.

rts551 - 1-16-2010 at 02:24 PM

Quote:

Many people bought on a hand shake..... but now the mighty dollar, free enterprise, greed take over. Do you know how many gringos tell these people they are crazy for leasing at $500 per year. and believe me.... there are people ready to take your place.... besides al the BS on the internet.

quote]Originally posted by NandLinbaja
We also have a home in the South Campos. It seems in reading many of the posts here, people want to point fingers at each other and point out how we should have known better than to invest down here. That's fine but I think you do a disservice to the decent Mexicans down here if you just accept the assumption that they are all corrupt. We came down when a handshake was a man's word and it meant everything. The campo owner who is kicking people out of his camp is not thinking of the big picture here. No one will be willing to buy into his camp now and he is cutting off the income via lease payments that he was getting. Even though most of us are not having the same problem, we do worry about the precedent this is setting.

We have gotten to know many of the merchants in town and they are really hurting because of the general bad press (drugs, killings, etc). Now this action by a few campo owners is also keeping Americans away. These people have become dependant on the US dollar so THAT is the bigger picture we are looking at.

We have a sizable investment in our home (we are full timers) and of course would not like to lose it. We are not whining however and will stay and enjoy for as long as we can. We are optimistic that this will pass and hopefully we can ride it out. Having said all that....I don't think it wrong for us to expect decent behavior out of the Mexican people.

the BIG Picture of problems

baja_NJ - 1-21-2010 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
this was posted today on the san felipe net
does any one here have any more info on what is going on

"I just want to know why no one, I mean no one, will write about what is going on with the Americans in the South Campos. We are losing our homes, they are pressuring us to pay back taxes, build unwanted sea walls, doubling our rent, sign contracts that are more comical than anything else. Your web page says NEWS, the best you can do is about women’s underwear????? What the heck, do you write about the news or not! I think it’s important that we get the msg out as to what is really going on, everyone wants Americans to come back to Mexico, why, when we are being thrown out of our homes, with no help from the Mexican Gov. what a joke, the only ones making money is the landlords....... and us Americans once again being screwed. I’m not scared, what do I have to lose, keep an eye on the San Diego Union Tribune, the letter is written, maybe they will print it. This is ridiculous, my landlord has given me the option to pay his 500,000.00 debt back taxes to the Mexican Gov. or he will give me x amount of months to sell my house, or it becomes his, oh did I mention that he has to approve the sales price, what is going on here. I have no way out. This is going to get real ugly real fast, I would appreciate any help or ideas of what to do, if I’m better off walking away say so, I’m tired, and about as sad as I can be. Sorry to be so critical, but the only news we get is from you guys and the Gringo Gazette, neither of you guys are performing."

baja_NJ - 1-21-2010 at 01:57 PM

• Mexican landlords have been destroying our property.

• Evicting homeowners to take possession of their houses.

• Outright extorting funds from us to pay their taxes, however, they do not pay those taxes.

• Downright bribing Mexico judicial officials to rule against us in unfounded lawsuits.

• Many landlords do not allow services to come into the camps (propane, water, solar, etc.) unless they are paid shakedown funds.

• Threats and confrontations are the norm. Bully tactics, intimidation and serious coercion occur constantly. We all fear that these landlords will destroy our homes and property. Significant break-ins and theft have occurred. The landlords did nothing to prevent the theft and the landlords knew when the camp would be EMPTY... coinsidence?

• Illegally raised rent for land lots by demanding more money even though the lot price is more than fair and was previously agreed upon by both parties.

• Refused to negotiate written leases and many landlords will not supply proper ID for us to renew our FM3 documents. Landlords dont want written leases because they are then liable to pay their mexico taxes!

• Many of us have owned our homes for over 10 years and spent significant dollars to increase the well-being of the community! As tourists we greatly contribute charity to the San Felipe area, this fact cannot be overstated. The area’s dire poverty is very bad and getting worse.

Greed, corruption, bribery and extortion in the South Campos !

baja_NJ - 1-21-2010 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
A lease is a lease is a lease. It is normal for a landlord to change their mind about a lease anywhere in the world. And thinking that $800 a year is too much rent is just plain nuts. You can't dry camp in a tent in the US for that, much less at the beach.

That is the POINT - Baja is NOT the USA! Landowners making more than 40k a year (TAX FREE) collectively on us to lease their land for our homes and also to improve the entire area is a SWEET deal for mexicans!

David K - 1-21-2010 at 02:54 PM

Sounds like there are south campos owners who have no long term vision and there will be deserted ruins soiling the once empty coastline... too bad.

rts551 - 1-21-2010 at 04:38 PM

sounds like you need to move North where the ocean front leases are fair.

Quote:

Originally posted by baja_NJ

Quote:

baja829 - 1-25-2010 at 03:11 PM

I'm weighing in on this lease problem in the South Campos a little late, but I just became aware of the original comments on The Net in San Felipe but I'd like to add my two cents for what it's worth.

We live in the So. Campos. We have a decent owner, who has always been fair. We are probably paying the lowest rental fees at this time -- we started at $350 a lot, 22 yrs. ago. We are now paying $800. We've had no problems with contracts, big increases, etc. We have treated our owner reasonable and with respect and he has treated us accordingly.

We are well aware of most of the problems referred to in prior writings. Some of it is very true, and much of it is by word of mouth and grossly exaggerated. We are disappointed by anyone's Mexico retirement dreams being altered in any way, similar to those who no longer have the retirement dream in the U.S. due to the economy, loss of jobs, etc., that all of us here have been able to enjoy for so long.

There are places where rents have been doubled. In the two campos I'm aware of, the original owners passed away and the children of those owners are fighting among themselves and with the renters. I do believe, coming from a Probate background, that is not uncommon, anywhere in the world. How it turns out in the end, no one knows at this point. I'm not saying it's right, it isn't, but it happens in the U.S. as well.

Some of those moved out of their houses without payment, were moved out by Court Order. None of us know the whole story there -- that too happens in the U.S. With regard to the person who commented on no one leases land and builds buildings on someone else's property in the U.S. -- check out shopping centers, although that's commercial and expected, but most of all, check out the Coachella Valley, which is half owned by at least 4 different Native American tribes -- The City Fathers were ordered by the Feds, way back when to return some of the land back to the Native Americans, as happened across the U.S. The Coachella Valley City Fathers, in their great wisdom, decided to dole out the land in checkerboard fashion. 1 section (360 acres) private, 1 section Native American -- thinking it would keep them from ever having a majority ownership of a large section of land anywhere in the Valley. Well, one-half of all those million dollar homes throughout Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Rancho Mirage, Indian Wells, etc. are built on "fee" land, which means they leased their property from the Native Americans and have been paying their leases forever and will do so forever. I don't know how their contracts read, and certainly, it has been a much more positive experience in the U.S. than Mexico, but it does exist in the U.S. in other parts of the world as well.

I leased a lot in Puerto Penasco in 1963, it had a mobile - I moved it off, built a house on the rocky beach. My rent started at $15 per month, it ended at $45 a month, when I sold it, at a rather nice profit, in 1985. Still, no problems, except when the Feds sent us a letter and asked us to send them the rent payments for 2 yrs., to pay the "owners" back taxes. After 2 years, we received another letter --- taxes all paid, send your rent to the owners again. No problem ever.

The economy is so very bad in the U.S. and it's twice as bad in Mexico -- many people here are desperate and others are just greedy. For those foreigners who are so very unhappy here, they need to look elsewhere, where things may be better. I know that may not be financially feasible for all, but anger, nastiness, and rumors are turning into hatred and none of us moved down here to have that kind of relationship, with neighbors, owners or anyone anywhere. "Getting even" isn't an option here that does anyone any good.

In closing, for those still considering retirement in Mexico, there are good places, even in the So. Campos, good owners, and pleasant times to be had. For those who are so unhappy here, I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better, whether or not one has earned the treatment being doled out in some of the Campos. Maybe this isn't the place to be. (signed) A contented leaseholder!

David K - 1-25-2010 at 03:31 PM

Thanks 829... Was good to see you again at Chelo's over New Year's weekend (we were with Rob & Connie for breakfast). :biggrin:

mtgoat666 - 1-25-2010 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baja829
With regard to the person who commented on no one leases land and builds buildings on someone else's property in the U.S. -- check out shopping centers, although that's commercial and expected, but most of all, check out the Coachella Valley,

What about Irvine CA? Isn't much of the development on the old Irvine Ranch land on 99 yr leases?

Did you know...

Dave - 1-25-2010 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baja_NJ
That is the POINT - Baja is NOT the USA! Landowners making more than 40k a year (TAX FREE) collectively on us to lease their land for our homes and also to improve the entire area is a SWEET deal for mexicans!

That Mexico has an agency similar to the IRS that considers unreported income to be a criminal act...and would love to hear from you?

Amazing...but true. :rolleyes:

Mexicali_Kid - 1-25-2010 at 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAnn
There is... a problem in some of the campos. The author of the above post is right. Hope things get settled soon. Some people are really in a bad situation. To many greedy people in the world! But there are some good campos.

Where do we start? Did you know that the landlord is the one who owns the land? Would you do $50K in improvements on a house you rented in the States? I don't think so.

So why do people think they can do these crazy things in Mexico? If you must live here, rent a house or buy some land, but never lease land in a camp and build. It is a Rx for loosing your investment.

baja_NJ - 2-2-2010 at 03:45 PM

Originally posted by BAnn
There is... a problem in some of the campos. The author of the above post is right. Hope things get settled soon. Some people are really in a bad situation. To many greedy people in the world! But there are some good campos.

The good campo's will soon turn BAD -- and quickly, the south campos problems are just that - ALL OF South Campos' Problems. Any landlord that gets away with bribery and extortion will spread it to the others. Any landlord that demands we pay double the rent or loose our investment in our homes is plain WRONG. The homeowners have improved the area and given way to generously to the people of the Elijdo - work, food, donations and livelihoods! Schools and churches built and funded by homeowners.

It was not long ago that a mexican family had a fireworks stand that blew up, luckly the family got out of the trailer just in time! They lost everything, and the generousity of the homeowners who gave goods, clothing and over $10k in CASH collectively to this family cannot be overlooked!

The greed and cohersion of any landowner HURTS the entire community.

You may not be first - but you sure are NEXT if you let this happen to the South Campos.

baja_NJ - 2-4-2010 at 11:49 AM

That Mexico has an agency similar to the IRS that considers unreported income to be a criminal act...and would love to hear from you?

Any details on this agency? please tell...

BajaRob - 2-4-2010 at 03:55 PM

The owner of Playa Linda has just doubled the tennant's rent to $3000 per lot per year. Many of them have 2 lots and their rent will be $6000. We are very fortunate to be paying $1400 for 2 lots.

SAT...Mexico's IRS agency

Dave - 2-4-2010 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baja_NJ
That Mexico has an agency similar to the IRS that considers unreported income to be a criminal act...and would love to hear from you?

Any details on this agency? please tell...

Servicio de Administracion Tributaria

Used to be referred to as 'Hacienda'.

bajaponderosa - 3-1-2010 at 12:14 PM

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by bajaponderosa]