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FM3 renewal

midwifevicki - 7-22-2004 at 05:36 PM

My husband is renewing his FM3 in Santa Rosalia next month. I plan to apply for one at the same time. He has had ihis FM3 renewed once before through a lawyer (Peyton) in Tijuana. It was very expensive and we would like to do it directly in Santa Rosalia with the help of our Mexican accountant. There is a new officer there, not Ismeal, who has been both friend and foe to Americans in the past. Has any one had any recent dealing with this new gentleman? Any suggestions or assistance with the FM3 renewal process? We have property in Punta Chivato that we are developing. Currently, first home is under construction.

Bob and Susan - 7-22-2004 at 06:18 PM

Our friends Vic and Debbie did it there and had no trouble in May.

Salvador our accountant will assist. He's a great source and will do you right.
http://www.despachocontable.com/

Send him an email, he will respond.
He goes to La Paz every other week also.

:yes:

midwifevicki - 7-22-2004 at 10:14 PM

Thanks for the information. What is the difference between an FM3 and FM2? We do not live in Punta Chivato but do have aMexican Corporation to sell land and build a community. I have an accountant who files our taxes every month in Santa Rosalia. His name is Ramiro palencia and although he is very personable I don't think that he has actually had experience doing this before.
Any idea what Salavador charges? thanks again.

possible help....

BajaCactus - 7-22-2004 at 10:59 PM

I have close relatives in Santa Rosalia (beautiful town)... actually my mothers family settled there around 150 years ago.. and as you may imagine... everyone knows them.....and they know everyone.

If you need, I could ask them to help you out.... I am sure they will be glad to assist you... only problem is that they barely speak english....

Let me know...

Antonio M.

Bob and Susan - 7-23-2004 at 05:56 AM

Vikki

Salvador's rates are very low.
Email him and ask for a price.
He goes to Santa Rosalia all the time.

You will need to get some pictures taken for the renewal 4 front and 4 side.
Costco does these.

FM3 is for 1 year and for foreigners that don't live in Mexico ALL year like you.

FM2 is good for 5 years and is for foreigners who live in Mexico FULL time.

Susan :yes:

FM2 - FM3

bajalou - 7-23-2004 at 09:52 AM

Well, Bob & Susan, I beg to differ with you. A FM3 is a multiple entry Tourist permit, reqired if you have any property (leased or owned) in Mexico. It is renewable for a total of 5 years and pictures are only required for the initial issue. After 5 years, you have to start over agin.

A FM2 is a "Documento Migratiorio Unico del Inmigrante" Because it is part of the imigration process, it is also registered in Mexico City. You MUST be a full time resident of Mex. with a FM2 - prohibited from being outside Mex more than 18 months in the 5 years. At the end of the 5 year process of FM2, you do a "Declaratoria de Inmigrado" and you are granted "all the rights of citizenship except voting"

All renewals must be done at the Imigration office handling the area which you live/have property.

This from my experience with 6 years of FM3 and 3 years of FM2 and advice of the local Imigration office.

But check it out for yourself.

:biggrin:

[Edited on 7-23-2004 by bajalou]

Bob and Susan - 7-23-2004 at 04:15 PM

OOps over simplified again....

An FM-3 is a one year permit to reside in Mexico. This document identifies the person as a non-immigrant. It is similar to a tourist card FMT but, unlike the tourist card you are allowed to live in the country for an extended period of time and leave your stuff there. Also needed for a trust.

So people that own and live part time in Baja should have this.

The FM3 must be renewed each year.
After the 5th year you can either get an FM-2 or continue getting an FM-3.

There is no year limit on getting an FM3.

An FM-2 is also a one year permit to reside in Mexico but after your fifth year you can apply to become an immigrate into the country. You need one also if you want to work. FM2 is more costly than a FM3.

Things have changed and I heard recently you can get an FM2 immediately but have not verified it.

After five years of having an FM2 you don't automaticly get to be a citizen.
There is a TEST :yes:

and you need some knowlege of Mexican culture and history.

When you become a citizen you still can't own the land in the Restricted Zone and you still can't vote.

In Mulege and Santa Rosalia they always like new pictures. :tumble:

naturalized citizen CAN own land and CAN vote

aldosalato - 7-23-2004 at 08:48 PM

I am a living proof.........

Still I am disappointed I cannot be a boat captain and filed a complain with the Federal authority suggesting revision of the Constitution...............

Dave - 7-24-2004 at 05:10 PM

A couple of points:

You now can get an FM2 without the 5 years of an FM3.

It is not necessary to have an FM2 to receive a work permit. FM3 will work just fine. Also, when you recieve the permit it is no longer necessary to meet the financial requirements necessary for an FM3/2.

Aldo is correct. Once you are a naturalized citizen you can own land in the restricted zone and vote. There IS a tradeoff however. If you get into troubles in Mexico you can't hide under U.S. diplomatic skirts. Something to think about if considering going this route.

Bob and Susan - 7-24-2004 at 06:21 PM

Dave

You are right about the protection...
We've thought about this many times.

Have you got a written source that says a naturalized citizen can own land in the restricted zone.

I have heard this before but.....only from Americans...I thought it was just an Urban Myth. :lol:

bob

dono - 7-25-2004 at 07:24 AM

My wife and i hold several properties in our names fee simple. no more trusts or yearly fees. more better

Bob and Susan - 7-25-2004 at 02:01 PM

We would only like a written source and we will research this.

In the US, I (not being a citizen) could easily vote in the next election.
I would just register with some guy in front of Walmart. He doesn't care, he gets paid for every registration.
No.... of course, my vote wouldn't count if It was checked, but....I still voted.

Now....about getting the DEED....I could tell an attorney that I was a citizen...he would register the deed in my name...but...is it legal if someone else questions it later or do I LOSE.

All I am asking for now is a written source that says "Naturalized Citizens", in Mexico, can own fee simple property in the prohibited zone.

This is new....or myth... :no:

Dave - 7-25-2004 at 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Dave

Have you got a written source that says a naturalized citizen can own land in the restricted zone.

Don't need one. Look at Aldosalato's post. Proof enough unless you choose not to believe him.

Bob and Susan - 7-25-2004 at 06:19 PM

Dont need one?????

...and that's why Americans get in trouble in Mexico.

:yes:

bajalou - 7-25-2004 at 06:41 PM

For land/home purchases, the Notario which handles the paperwork will be the final say for the title transfer.

and, as Aldosalato said, that is what the Imigration office told me when I inquired there a couple different times.

[Edited on 7-26-2004 by bajalou]

Bob and Susan - 7-25-2004 at 06:48 PM

Yes this is true but....

If the Notario is doing something WRONG and your friend and someone else COMPLAINS....

Are you screwed???

Dave - 7-25-2004 at 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan

that's why Americans get in trouble in Mexico.

:yes:

We're not talking about Americans but naturalized Mexican citizens. Most countries have exclusions for naturalized citizens. In the U.S it is the qualification for President and V.P. To my knowledge, and to many naturalized Mexican citizens I know who own property in the restricted zone, there is no restiction on land ownership.

Bob and Susan - 7-26-2004 at 06:42 AM

Dave

Just because people you know have "done it" doesn't make legal or correct.

If you can't provide a written source it may not be true. Period.

bob

dono - 7-26-2004 at 08:52 AM

Bob and Susan, you need to read the Mexican constitution to see if Mexicans can own property in Mexico.

Bob and Susan - 7-26-2004 at 09:37 AM

There IS a differance from someone born in Mexico and someone naturalized That's in the translation.

Dono and Dave think they know But....
Where's the Beef....

Until then don't say you know.

FM3 renewal

midwifevicki - 7-26-2004 at 01:27 PM

Thanks for all the interesting discussion. As with so many legalities in Mexico, there never seem to be any clear answers but I ma appyting for myself and also planning to get the renewal for my husband. I am going to the consulate today and to immigracion in Santa Rosalia on next Monday. I hope the discussion keeps going because I am learning so much. thanks to all.

whodat54321 - 7-26-2004 at 08:55 PM

now I'm really confused.

I'm just going to rent in TJ, and still work in the states. FM2 or FM3? :?:

Dave - 7-26-2004 at 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whodat54321
now I'm really confused.

I'm just going to rent in TJ, and still work in the states. FM2 or FM3? :?:

You need an FM3 and either a sentri pass or a lot of patience. :biggrin:

FM-2

mcgyver - 7-28-2004 at 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
A couple of points:

You now can get an FM2 without the 5 years of an FM3.

It is not necessary to have an FM2 to receive a work permit. FM3 will work just fine. Also, when you recieve the permit it is no longer necessary to meet the financial requirements necessary for an FM3/2.

Aldo is correct. Once you are a naturalized citizen you can own land in the restricted zone and vote. There IS a tradeoff however. If you get into troubles in Mexico you can't hide under U.S. diplomatic skirts. Something to think about if considering going this route.

Dave, Please provide us with the # of the Mexican law that provides for an immeidate issue of an FM-2. We printed your post and took it to our local Delgado to try to avoid the yearly expense of the FM-3 and he just laughed at us, said not only was all still the same but that fees where going up again.
Thanks

Bob and Susan - 7-28-2004 at 06:12 AM

Mcgyver

Welcome back from the "dark side"
I know you posted this before but...can you post the rules again and clear up the confusion?

Thanks :yes:

Dave - 7-28-2004 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcgyver

Dave, Please provide us with the # of the Mexican law that provides for an immeidate issue of an FM-2. We printed your post and took it to our local Delgado to try to avoid the yearly expense of the FM-3 and he just laughed at us, said not only was all still the same but that fees where going up again.
Thanks

Local migra officials have always used broad flexibility in application of la ley. Some delgados even go beyond the law.

Some examples:

I have heard that in some areas you must check in and out of Mexico when holding an (non-immigrant) FM3. Total BS.

In my area, (Rosarito) migra has never enforced the monthly income requirement. A bank account containing a minimum one months income is all that is required.

Here are the requirements for a inmigrante rentista or FM2:

http://www.inami.gob.mx/paginas/leyes/manualtramitesmigrator...

bajalou - 7-29-2004 at 10:45 AM

Thanks Dave for the link - now if I canget it translated.

San Felipe has only required the money in the bank, no monthly requirement. Suppose all the Baja Cal offices under Mexicali are similar.

Ont thing I have learned - the person doing the work has the final say, wether it's regarding imigration or customs. No mater what you have read in the laws or advice and paperwork given by a consulate, the guy at the border is God and does it his way.

:biggrin:

Mexican law

LaRibereña - 7-29-2004 at 04:30 PM

A good source for Mexican law is www.ajijiclaw.com. No mention is made, however, of ownership by naturalized citizens. Maybe you could email them.

bajalou - 7-29-2004 at 04:51 PM

Elizabeth - wonderful informative website thank you, thank you, thank you

:biggrin:

Dave - 7-29-2004 at 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Thanks Dave for the link - now if I canget it translated.

Once you do you will find that an FM3 is not one of the requirements. Fact is, I searched the whole site and there was no linkage between an FM3/2. I know of folks who have started with an FM2.

Quote:

the guy at the border is God and does it his way.

Unless you can PROVE that his way is not the correct way.

A couple of years ago there was a $250 allowance by aduana for residents of the frontera. The folks at the border insisted that I was only allowed $50 until I provided a copy of the ruling.

Sometimes it PAYS to know the law. :lol:

bajalou - 7-29-2004 at 06:41 PM

Thanks Dave

I'm over 1/2 way thru the FM2 process right now so this is information for everyone. I allways want to know what the law says. Might not always follow it but I do want to know it.
I've had one Customs who told me that he didn't care what that paper said (their publication regarding how much you could bring in which I showed him) HE would decide what I could bring.
I never really have any problems.

I'll always remember The perfect country & western song.

:biggrin:

midwifevicki - 8-1-2004 at 12:04 AM

Just a quick update. I went to the consulate in San Diego, which by the way closes at 1:00 pm (yes, 1:00 pm)
You can apply for the FM3 "resident" visa at the consulate, but if you want to have an FM3 to work or conduct business in Mexico "FM3 lucrativa", it must be applied for and renewed in the district where you are planning to work. renewals in Santa rosalia can only be done in the 30 days before it expires. We were there to renew on July 1oth and could not do so because the visa expired 8/30 and it was more than 30 days. Because we are building houses in Punta Chivato/Shell Beach, we must do all our paper work through Santa Rosalia. There is a website with the information for FM 3 resident visas. The passport photos are to be Mexican size 4cm x 4cm or 1.5 inches x 1.5 inches. Thanks again for all the input.

bajalou - 8-1-2004 at 06:37 PM

Make sure you have the FM3 stamped out "Salida" when you leave Mex. That gives you 15 days after returning to Mex to start the renewal if you are late getting back. Has saved me a bundle of late charges. Mine expires in Sept - about the time I like to visit up north.

:biggrin:

Germanicus - 8-16-2004 at 07:26 AM

I found a website which might bring some light into this dark.
baja-web.com
then go to
hope it helps to clear the confusion
Germanicus