OK Nomads, since you guys aren't producing stories, I will throw another game your way. Where Am I #1 (the more details you give, the better):
[Edited on 8-9-2004 by David K]JESSE - 8-8-2004 at 02:37 PM
Mars.JESSE - 8-8-2004 at 02:42 PM
Well seriously, it looks arid and cloudy, your clothes tell me its about 50 to 60 degress during the day, i say your closer to the pacific than the
gulf, northern mexico after el Rosario based on the vegetation and before San Ignacio, thats a pretty big chunk of land to guess. Anyways, i see hills
so it cant be in the flat desert betwen Punta prieta and San Ignacio, so i close my guess down to betwen El Rosario and Catavi?a, do i see Volcanic
rocks in fron of you? my guess is yes, so based on all my analisis, i say your somewhere betwen San Quintin and el Rosario.David K - 8-8-2004 at 02:45 PM
Keep guessing Jesse!
Where Am I (#2)
David K - 8-8-2004 at 02:47 PM
Be exact... this place has a name!
Where am I (#3)
David K - 8-8-2004 at 02:52 PM
Well, do you need any hints? Be specific... I have taken many photos here but this is the only one with me in it, I think.
Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 02:59 PM
# 1 is the soda/oynx spring out of San Luis Gonzaga, I think.
#2 is San Pedro (La Bocana) I think. out of BOLA (south of)
#3 is a cave with you in it-----I have seen that picture before, but I cannot place it.David K - 8-8-2004 at 03:14 PM
One out of three, Barry... You got one out of three!
Hint: These photos are all in my web site... The problem is I have a LOT of photos in my web site! My web site's theme is Baja's historic and natural
wonders.
This game has a limit, because there really are not very many photos of me in my site.Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 03:20 PM
Number 2 is the ranch of San Gregorio----got my ranchos mixed up. I found a pic in the 1962 edition of the "Lower California Guidebook" that shows the
ranch while it was still active and occupied. Am I right??BarryDavid K - 8-8-2004 at 03:44 PM
Yes Barry, you are right! I have both the Lower Calif. Guidebook photo and mine from 2001 next to each other in my site: http://vivabaja.com/401/page5.html
[Edited on 8-8-2004 by David K]
Where am I (#4)?
David K - 8-8-2004 at 03:49 PM
Okay, this should be much easier...
Quiz pic #4
Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 03:56 PM
Just a wild guess since I have never seen it myself------Mission Santa Maria above San Luis Gonzaga????? or is there that much still standing???
Mision Santa Maria de los Angeles
David K - 8-8-2004 at 04:32 PM
Yes, still standing! The photo of me was in 1999, here is one from when we went back last year. That is Chicagoross's wife.
preservation of the Mission ruin
Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 04:40 PM
David----do you know if anything has ever been done to stablize that ruin, and keep anymore deterioration from happening? It would be a shame to lose
it. BarryDavid K - 8-8-2004 at 04:53 PM
The site is remote and VERY difficult to reach and even harder to exit. The toughest 14.5 miles in Baja!
Jack Swords was very concerned about the errosion at the doorway... Much more and that entire wall will collapse. Perhaps a volunteer crew of four
wheelers could sand bag or at least back fill where rain water has been rushing out of the mission interior and eating away the base of the doorway?
A worthy winter project... I'm game!
Great idea---with caveat
Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 05:40 PM
David---Great idea, but after working for the National park Service for so many years I am nervous about (no offense, please) non-professional crews
working on such a historic site. There are chemicals that can be applied (sprayed on?) that will temporarily stableize the standing walls, I believe.
I only barely know what I am talking about, but I think that at least a professional type person should supervise any work.
However, lacking any professional willing to get involved, at least your idea would probably work.
The sandbag idea really is not bad. What that would do is at least not cause any additional damage, and it may deter any further weather and run-off
damage. At least is would put things on hold until some really lasting work could be done. There probably is a good supply of sand around the
site----the empty sand bags could be easily hauled in, even if on our backs. When installed, they would at last a few years until the bags rotted out.
Some bags are now of man-made fibers and really last a long time. The only down side is that it makes the site look pretty bad, and spoils the site
for the hardy visitors willing to come in and take a look. Everything is a tradeoff, I suppose.
What an interesting idea. Barry
Oh, you can drive to the mission alright...
David K - 8-8-2004 at 06:27 PM
... if roads like THIS don't scare you!!!
David K - 8-8-2004 at 06:37 PM
Actually, going down wasn't so bad. Leaving the mission and climbing back up the 'widowmaker' grade was a bit more interesting...
David. Where are you?
academicanarchist - 8-8-2004 at 07:10 PM
David. Last time I checked, you live within sight of San Luis Rey Mission. If you take a look at North's photo of Santa Maria taken 100 years ago, the
ruins have not deteriorated all that much. David K - 8-8-2004 at 07:27 PM
Ha ha... Yes, I am within a mile of Mission San Luis Rey and the Camino Real! But, this is what I would rather be doing>>>
(helping others find adventure in Baja) Thanks to Bernie Swaim for this cartoon of me in his new book, Bouncing Around Baja.
[Edited on 8-10-2004 by David K]
THAT IS A ROAD???
Barry A. - 8-8-2004 at 11:06 PM
David----Usually pics do not show just how horrible a road is-----that pic of that "road???" is the worst thing I have ever seen. No way do I take my
vehicles on that "road". The Mission protection can wait-----new project is improving that "road". Neil Johns needs to test his Toyota on that road
to see if his newer front end will stand up. (-: BarryDavid K - 8-8-2004 at 11:47 PM
Yes, as I said it is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja... to go that short distance it takes nearly THREE HOURS! ja ja ja ja ja!!!
It was my second time there. The first time (with BajaMur) I was on a quad and got 'tossed' climbing that grade, blood spilled... So, I named it the
Widowmaker. Most usually park at the top of that grade and walk the remaining 1.2 mile to the mission.
Last year not only did our three rigs drive all the way in, but a Jeep club with a dozen + rigs (including Cherokees) come in as well.
Neal and his army was in there before me... The Toyota TRD locking rear differential really works on that climb. See more photos of the drive in and
out at http://vivabaja.com/403/page2.html
Would I go back? YOU BET!! It rates as one of the 'best' that Baja has to offer! Santa Maria has a magic quality... the palms, the ruins, the amazing
quantity of water flowing out of that desert mountain!!!
[Edited on 8-9-2004 by David K]
Mission repair
Jack Swords - 8-9-2004 at 07:18 AM
David, thanks for the heads up...
I have been concerned about this mission's front wall since hurricane Juliette. The rainwater that falls in the floorspace of the mission flows out
the front door and undercuts the wall (you can see it in the photo). This is a thick wall, but its loss will change the ruin for all time. The idea
of David's of using sand bags will divert water and protect it, plus they are easy to carry up there. This is my favorite place/mission. Lots of
water, blue palms, and, best of all, difficult to get to. I'm very willing to be a part of a group this fall to drive (4X4) or backpack to the site
to sandbag it. It is non intrusive and will give INAH more opportunity to get it together. They have NOT done anything yet to protect the site, and
are aware of it. To have a plan and ask permission from INAH would most likely result in a negative response (territoriality) and then efforts would
be unlawful. And...sandbags can be removed with no harm done. Good project for Oct/Nov (hopefully no major hurricanes before then). Then INAH can be
made aware of the sandbagging and hopefully go up and apply the cement slurry used in many of the other more accessible missions.
Excellent Plan Jack!
David K - 8-9-2004 at 07:00 PM
The mission is on private land (Rancho Santa Ynez), or it was at one time according to quotes from Josefina. Fred Hampe owns Santa Ynez now. Perhaps
he or Ralph will be supportive. I can also email Marvin Patchen who has the cabin east of the runway that people stay in (mostly Graham). Marvin would
be keen on the idea, but he is too far up in years to get involved. I know Graham would want to join us, Santa Maria is one of his favorite places in
Baja. He is in Michigan for the summer, but I will will give him a heads up.
Mission Santa Maria
Jack Swords - 8-9-2004 at 07:37 PM
I believe Ralph is in New Mexico for the summer, but returns in the fall. I have his e-mail address, but it is in La Paz. Perhaps Marvin has it.
Ralph rides his fat tired motorcycle up to the mission regularly and would be good to contact. Let's do it! Oct/Nov?
Visit to Santa Maria
academicanarchist - 8-9-2004 at 08:49 PM
If it is late October or early November, I might be able to come along. I will be in Argentina for three weeks starting in late September.Mexitron - 8-9-2004 at 09:56 PM
Hey David K--that's a nasty looking road!! I might a have a close second though--the road from Rancho Coyote to Mike's Sky Ranch after the winter of
1996--took us 4 and a half hours to go 12 miles! Managed to wrap the side of my Toyota around the trunk of an Oak Tree too. We met a group coming the
other way(toward's Meling R.) and they said they were going back to Mike's via the main highways....guess we should've taken a hint and turned around!
Alas, the road has been regraded and it only takes about an hour and a half to 2 hours as of April 2004.
You don't say!
jrbaja - 8-9-2004 at 10:26 PM
Yes, as I said it is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja... David K - 8-9-2004 at 10:52 PM
There you go again...
"It is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja" (in my opinion). Mexitron's tough road wasn't 14.5 miles long.
If you aren't going to be nice, no Matomi Movie for you!Taco de Baja - 8-10-2004 at 01:19 PM
I would recommend using natural fiber sand bags. The plastic ones will break down in a year or less of desert heat. And then blow all over the
mission grounds. They are tough to find up here in the States, but may be easier to find south of the border.
In addition, the archaeologist in me says to be careful of where the material to fill the bags comes from. The area around the mission is fill of
artifacts, and it would be a shame to dig into an intact archaeological site. (I have seen that happen out on San Nicolas Island by idiot Navy
personnel). It is best to get the sand from an active stream that contains no artifacts, and haul it up to the mission.
Sounds like a good project though., Maybe my schedule will llow me to go to. Keep me informed of dates!David K - 8-10-2004 at 04:16 PM
Thanks Brooks. I wouldn't think of anything like digging in the mission... Jack Swords is authorized by INAH and I would always seek his advice. It
was he who suggested shoring up the doorway erosion last year. That has been stewing in my mind... and now with the photos reminding me of how each
time thjere is a thunderstorm, the inside of the mission fills with water and the doorway is the only exit and a gully is eating away at both sides of
the doorway. If nothing is done, that entire giant adobe wall will collapse.
Now, if you haven't seen BajaMur's panorama art the mission, you gotta see it... this is almost like being at the mission!
I hope some good will come of this idea of Jack's. I also would like to go and help... my truck can ferry sand bags and ? However, I would need it to
be on a school holiday to go.
[Edited on 8-10-2004 by David K]
End the game...
David K - 8-10-2004 at 06:29 PM
Before we get too sidetracked into fixing Mision Santa Maria, let me end the game with the answer for one photo of me sitting in a 'cave' (note
pictograph above my shoulder)... This was at Montevideo, off the road to Mision San Borja, west of Bahia de los Angeles. Photo taken during our 15 day
trip the length of Baja, and is in this web page: http://vivabaja.com/baja15
Thanks for playing!
[Edited on 8-12-2004 by David K]Mexitron - 8-10-2004 at 08:23 PM
I'll reiterate Taco's sandbag idea--the plastic ones don't last long at all in full sun.Debra - 8-10-2004 at 10:02 PM
Will you bring plaster or cement to shore up the sand bags? Seems to me that if the mission isn't touched directly and it's just to make a diversion
around for the water no one should have an objection? I say go for it! And thank you!
Sand bags----synthetic or natural fiber??
Barry A. - 8-11-2004 at 08:53 AM
Taco and Mexitron-----Shows you what I know about sandbags---NOTHING!!!! I always was told that the synthetic ones lasted longer, but I really have no
personal experience. I do know that we used natural fiber ones to divert streams on the family ranch and they did last for years. I think some of them
have been in place for at least 8 years. I stand corrected on this one, and I thankyou for pointing that out.
Debra----I do not think that we would even need plaster or cement---sandbags seem to stay in place very well by themselves, I guess because they are
so heavy. Barry
Ummmm, here I go again,
jrbaja - 8-11-2004 at 09:32 AM
shouldn't the reparation, alteration, excavation, exploration, and any type of visit to a Mexican Historical site include some Mexicans. And ones that
have their credentials from INAH or Profepa ?
Especially when changes will be made to the site?
Perhaps this would be a good way to light a fire under their fannies to get with the program. And, some of them are just as interested as many of
you. And it's their country.
And more people are always good when it comes to sandbagging!David K - 8-11-2004 at 05:27 PM
That is an excellent point JR. We do have Mexican Nationals at Baja Nomad. JESSE and BajaCactus for instance... If there was any sincere concern (or
ability) by Mexico to preserve these places, it would have been done... It just isn't on the high priority mark. With all the money the Catholic
Church has, even they don't come forward to save what is left.
Restoration has been done at Mision San Vicente, but that project seems dormant now. Perhaps we history buffs just dwell too much in the past, and
these are just piles of rubble to most everyone else...?
I see the sites as places were people first were (at least Europeans) in Baja... How they lived, why they put themselves through, so much suffering,
and more!
Santa Maria has abundant water, but little cultivatable land... Yet, the Jesuits held high expectations for expanding their chain north (and also east
to join their Sonora missions)... Unfortunately, they were betrayed by (Franciscan?) agents in the Spanish court of the king. The king was made to
believe California was full of gold, silver and pearls, and the Jesuits were not paying the king's per centage (tax evasion)! Bye bye Jesuits...
This is where the lost mission treasure legends of Baja were born (Santa Isabel, Santa Clara, etc.)... The Spanish accountants found no treasure at
the missions, so the Jesuits must of hid it all!!!
TRUTH is, they worked their buns off just to grow enough food to eat (the padres and the natives)... there was no time for mining... by the Jesuits,
at least.
[Edited on 8-12-2004 by David K]
Let me splain
jrbaja - 8-11-2004 at 11:19 PM
Mexico does not have rich people like the u.s. that have "extra" time to go digging up or preserving historic sites in other countries, let alone
their own.
They are busy trying to feed and educate their families under some of the most adverse conditions.
To think that they don't care is extremely disappointing to hear from you. And way wrong!
How many of them have you asked whether they care or not?
I have been dealing with just this attitude down south. It is their land, it should be their finds, and credit should go to them. Period.
If you sincerely want to help the Mexicans, pay the locals to show you what's up.
And bring sandbags and people to help fill em. If that's what's decided is best for the preservation of this history.
On the other hand, for the original families of Baja, that carry native bloodlines, perhaps they look at these ungodly sites as Native North
Americans look at thanksgiving.
It's not nice to mess with Ma Nature anyway.Debra - 8-12-2004 at 04:23 PM
Quote:
[/ On the other hand, for the original families of Baja, that carry native bloodlines, perhaps they look at these ungodly sites as Native North
Americans look at thanksgiving.
It's not nice to mess with Ma Nature anyway.
Very good point JR. However, We Native North Americans also preserve the site at Wounded Knee to mention only one. It would be a shame to loose the
Missions.
Mission view of doorway
Jack Swords - 8-15-2004 at 01:07 PM
Here is a view of the doorway showing potential failure source. Be a shame to lose this structure.
