BajaNomad

Baja Real Estate advise

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ramuma53 - 1-9-2011 at 02:32 PM

For those that have questions about Real Estate aquisition in Baja.
The real thing, not for the people who think that, just having confidence on a public notary si enough.
Baja is considered all ver Mexico as a very difficult place to buy for foreigners and nationals alike.
The lack of confidence has scared most of the would be buyers in Baja California on the Ensenada Tijuana strip and the local authorities, have taken advantage of this problem instead of correcting it, if you have questions about the real state of afairs on Real Estate, make your questions here.
I am the "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito" and "Cronica de un fraude a la Nacion" author, publications on the ABC Estate newspaper and several national publications, concerning the Real Estate problem in Baja, 30 years experience on the subject.

Woooosh - 1-9-2011 at 03:08 PM

If you have a legal solution to the real estate problem described in these two YouTube videos, I would certainly like to hear it. Someone must have the answer, maybe it is you. Most nomads have already seen them. Woooosh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK0j9NZ4Ge8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCsLjdX83U

ramuma53 - 1-9-2011 at 06:54 PM

Yes of course I know about that problem and I advised the authorities about that particular problem several years ago and you know by their inaction that the problem building just finished construction.
The guy who is talking in the video, is fundamentally wrong about one thing, the building is not inside the Federal Zone, because it is out of the Federal zone legal line (The sea took ground after the legal line was established in 1976 because of the CFE breakwater); I know that the building looks, like just on top of the beach, but the Federal zone legal line is west of the building and that is why Federal Zone can not intervene, also about the access for the impaired, the Federal Zone law say, that there must be at least one beach access, every 800 meters and clearly there are beach accesses inside the 800 mts.
The Federal Zone office can and must correct the legal line defining the Federal Zone in that area, according to the law, as ground gained by the sea, but that procedure has never been done, it must be done, but in the mean while the building is not inside the Federal Zone and not wrong about that issue.
The real reason that building is wrong, is because it is in National Land being subjected at this time, to a sale procedure by the SRA, file 507710 by the National Land office, being legally sold to another person, not related to the guy who built the tower and that is true also for the other beach front towers south of there.
I can tell you what is going to happen there in the future: when the sale procedure, for Rancho Costa Azul finishes, the Federal police will bring anyone they find in the building, to Mexico city to be prosecuted for illegal use of National Land, that already happened 2 years ago to the guy who said he was the owner of the disco Animale in Rosarito downtown.
This is only one of hundreds of problems in the Rosarito area that will erupt in the near future, like the one in Playa Encantada, the one near the Corona Hotel and a lot others.

ramuma53 - 1-9-2011 at 07:47 PM

Also, bout what you can legally do, about that problem?
As any Mexican can do, ask the Federal Zone to re define the boundary line, defining the Federal Zone in that area; they may not want to accept your petition, but if they do not accept it, just mail it to them officially with copy to every authority in the chain of command up to the President.
It may take years and a lot of effort, but you can do it, also do what you are doing, raise the issue publicly as often as you can, to hurry up the process.
What will you accomplish with that? That the line, be redefined and the building included in the Federal zone, they will have to pay for the Federal zone from that point at a very expensive price and that may make the building not rentable.
Also when they start having legal problems with the real owner, together with criminal charges by the Federal authorities, they may just settle for leaving the place as too expensive and then the building will be demolished.
I agree, it is not right to be there, but legally it is right at this time, but if you do not do the right thing and confront the authorities, they will just go on, because we know the Federal Zone authorities in Rosarito are very crooked.

[Edited on 1-10-2011 by ramuma53]

BajaGringo - 1-9-2011 at 08:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
The real reason that building is wrong, is because it is in National Land being subjected at this time, to a sale procedure by the SRA, file 507710 by the National Land office, being legally sold to another person, not related to the guy who built the tower and that is true also for the other beach front towers south of there.


A very similar story will be unfolding soon down here around large parcels of bayfront / oceanfront property in San Quintin.

Woooosh - 1-9-2011 at 08:03 PM

Thank you. Once the water waves come over the street , the PROFEPA inspector came at our request. He had us sign and date a photo of the water coming over the seawall and they moved the FMZ line. The new FMZ line is shown to be the street and just east of condo buildings in our 2010 concession map- so hopefully that is the correction you were looking for.

As you say, either way the buildings are still illegal. We hold the federal concession title and pay every year for it (11 pesos per square meter)- we just don't have control of it's use- as our concession title requires us to. The SEMARNAT Jefe required us to file charges against the squatter Ortiz with the PGR. I do hope they start prosecuting others as you say. Great insight. If you know of people who can move the prosecution process forward on this, U2U me. PROFEPA, SEMARNAT, JPGE and the PGR all have active files on this specific concession area: DZGF 832/08 and DZGF 477/10. Much thanks! Hope to here from you! Woooosh

Woooosh - 1-9-2011 at 08:06 PM

I was not aware the cause of Rosarito Beach's erosion problem was being directly blamed on the CFE plant breakwater. Makes sense. As the SEMARNAT Jefe told me: "There is nothing you can do to the ocean that does not effect your neighbor"

DENNIS - 1-10-2011 at 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
As the SEMARNAT Jefe told me: "There is nothing you can do to the ocean that does not effect your neighbor"



Could be true. When they built the Dana Point Harbor and breakwater, the beach up in Newport washed away. It took the Army Corp of Engineers to replace it.

wessongroup - 1-10-2011 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
As the SEMARNAT Jefe told me: "There is nothing you can do to the ocean that does not effect your neighbor"



Could be true. When they built the Dana Point Harbor and breakwater, the beach up in Newport washed away. It took the Army Corp of Engineers to replace it.


I certainly remember that one... along with the dredging which is required also....

It is all tied together... as the individual from SEMARNAT stated...... some seem to forget....

Super information ... thanks, it all helps....

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 12:07 PM

Bajagringo
San Quintin is another time bomb for real Estate problems, there most properties are based on Colonial titles that give absolutely no property right since 1994 that they were voided.
There most of the properties come from one of those.

mtgoat666 - 1-10-2011 at 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
For those that have questions about Real Estate aquisition in Baja.
The real thing, not for the people who think that, just having confidence on a public notary si enough.
Baja is considered all ver Mexico as a very difficult place to buy for foreigners and nationals alike.
The lack of confidence has scared most of the would be buyers in Baja California on the Ensenada Tijuana strip and the local authorities, have taken advantage of this problem instead of correcting it, if you have questions about the real state of afairs on Real Estate, make your questions here.
I am the "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito" and "Cronica de un fraude a la Nacion" author, publications on the ABC Estate newspaper and several national publications, concerning the Real Estate problem in Baja, 30 years experience on the subject.


advice from the turtle stew rabble rouser? :lol::lol:

wessongroup - 1-10-2011 at 01:16 PM

Must say, this individual has given more "facts" on buying real estate in Baja than most... which does seems to be proving correct .. saved one buyer from making a big mistake.. has to be proving useful and factual information on the entire process ...

If I were in the market, to buy "property" in Baja or on the main land ... his "knowledge" would be helpful... in the due diligence process IMHO

Woooosh - 1-10-2011 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Must say, this individual has given more "facts" on buying real estate in Baja than most... which does seems to be proving correct .. saved one buyer from making a big mistake.. has to be proving useful and factual information on the entire process ...

If I were in the market, to buy "property" in Baja or on the main land ... his "knowledge" would be helpful... in the due diligence process IMHO

refreshing for a change, isn't it. I think I've almost beat my horse dead on this one though Wiley... lol

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 02:45 PM

Woooosh

Hope they followed the right procedure, because they have to notify the squater so they can deffend theirselves against the line movement, it is not easy, just hope they followed the law, because after that an amparo is going to be filled and they have to lose that.
But good to know that the procedure to correct things is well advanced.

Lobsterman - 1-10-2011 at 02:56 PM

Thanks again for the sage real estate advice ramuma53.

I'm perplexed why people TODAY would buy any real estate in baja knowing that (1) you could lose the land (or dwelling) at any moment because you did not grease the correct palms, or because of the ever-changing real estate laws ramuma53 alluded to above or (2) you have to get out of baja fast because of the growing security problems there. Either case, losing everything to only getting dimes on the $.

Therefore, why not just rent in baja from the ones who wish they could sell you their property.

I plan on coming to baja with a pocket full of $ (retiring in 17 days) and renting a place(s) at a fraction of the cost of owning that property. Then move to another place/location when you get bored there, the fish have moved on, feel threatened or outlived your welcome. In either case only losing basically nothing as a worst case scenario.

BajaGringo - 1-10-2011 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Bajagringo
San Quintin is another time bomb for real Estate problems, there most properties are based on Colonial titles that give absolutely no property right since 1994 that they were voided.
There most of the properties come from one of those.


Two words: Reforma Agraria
Quote:
Originally posted by Lobsterman
Thanks again for the sage real estate advice ramuma53.

I'm perplexed why people TODAY would buy any real estate in baja knowing that (1) you could lose the land (or dwelling) at any moment because you did not grease the correct palms, or because of the ever-changing real estate laws ramuma53 alluded to above or (2) you have to get out of baja fast because of the growing security problems there. Either case, losing everything to only getting dimes on the $.

Therefore, why not just rent in baja from the ones who wish they could sell you their property.

I plan on coming to baja with a pocket full of $ (retiring in 17 days) and renting a place(s) at a fraction of the cost of owning that property. Then move to another place/location when you get bored there, the fish have moved on, feel threatened or outlived your welcome. In either case only losing basically nothing as a worst case scenario.


I agree. I tell everybody who wants to buy to rent first. That way they will know if Baja is a good fit and to also check out the real story on the land they are considering. You won't get that from a RE agent, not even one waving a title insurance guarantee.

If you are going to buy you really need to check out the land with a good, local attorney with a lot of experience in RE law who knows the area, the history and any ongoing litigation regarding the property.

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 04:07 PM

Woooosh
As you say, either way the buildings are still illegal. We hold the federal concession title and pay every year for it (11 pesos per square meter)- we just don't have control of it's use- as our concession title requires us to. The SEMARNAT Jefe required us to file charges against the squatter Ortiz with the PGR. I do hope they start prosecuting others as you say. Great insight. If you know of people who can move the prosecution process forward on this, U2U me. PROFEPA, SEMARNAT, JPGE and the PGR all have active files on this specific concession area: DZGF 832/08 and DZGF 477/10. Much thanks! Hope to here from you! Woooosh

Your charges against the squater are one of the best ways to get back the use of theFederal Zone, but you must press it every step of the way, but if you hold the concession you have the legal use of that area, then, the act of taking it away from you, is a criminal act with federal jurisdiction.

You are doing the right legal thing, but you must know the Mexican Justice system, it is difficult to move, but once you make it move, it will do the job very effciently and to make it move you have to step on their toes.

BAJAWOMAN - 1-10-2011 at 04:11 PM

If you are really worried about a parcel of land you are purchasing there is a sure fire way to check it out without an attorney have your realtor take you to registro and check the property details and history back as far as it goes Meets and Bounds are really the only issues that could be an issue in a residential property with a good title large parcels also meets and bounds and good title but how to take and hold ownership again a good attorney is a Notary most of the Notaries are very knowledgeable and will take time to speak with you maybe not in your language but take a licensed translator with you the more you do yourself in this country and not rely on others is better for all especially you in the long run and you will feel the rewards and understand better what you are getting into a good Realtor is a gem

DENNIS - 1-10-2011 at 04:14 PM

Welcome to BajaNomad, BAJAWOMAN..........
Lots of good advice. Thanks for that.

wessongroup - 1-10-2011 at 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Must say, this individual has given more "facts" on buying real estate in Baja than most... which does seems to be proving correct .. saved one buyer from making a big mistake.. has to be proving useful and factual information on the entire process ...

If I were in the market, to buy "property" in Baja or on the main land ... his "knowledge" would be helpful... in the due diligence process IMHO

refreshing for a change, isn't it. I think I've almost beat my horse dead on this one though Wiley... lol


Woooosh ... Think you have gotten all your ducks in a row ... and at this point ... time is on your side... along with the Pacific Ocean !!! ... enjoy your view, it will only improve... as I find it rather hard to believe a structure, which is actively being impacted by direct tidal influence will can pass the test ..... IMHO

Think you got the biggest friend one can have... "Mother Nature"

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 05:26 PM

Lobsterman
Mexico is not different from other places concerning buying real estate, but Foreigners buying real estate do not know the Mexican complexities concerning property titles and let me explain you a little bit, because there are different kind of property titles:
ARTICLE 27 FROM THE MEXICAN CONSTITUTION SAY THAT ALL THE LAND INSIDE THE MEXICO BORDERS IS BY ORIGIN NATIONAL LAND AND TO TAKE IT OUT OF NATIONAL LAND STATUS, YOU HAVE TO DO IT THROUGH A LEGAL TITE GIVEN BY THE NATIONAL LAND OFFICE ONLY.
And that “Only” is a very problematic “only”, because there is absolutely no other way, and that mean, that no judge, governor or any but any other authority can give you a title that is legal over National land, also there is no status of limitations that affect National Land.
We have then, TITLES ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL LAND OFFICE (SRA) and those are the best kind of private property titles AND EVERY PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHT, MUST HAVE ONE OF THOSE AS PRECEDENT, the problem is that, in Baja, most lots don't have one as precedent and the public notary supposed to be the one to advise the buyer about that critical fact, but the other problem in Baja, is that they don’t, like most of the Rosarito developments, especially the ones built by the Hugo Torres Chavert group.
We also have, EJIDO TITLES and those titles, say on them, FULL DOMINIUM, but it is only partially true, because, to be able to buy property, coming from one of those titles, you have to follow up, a very difficult and lengthily process (up to 10 years) that include an authorization by the Ejido group, whose assembly have to meet, with a majority of the ejidatarios, a public notary have to be there and certify that they did it legally and a federal representative must be there for the same purpose. Believe me, it is very difficult to put that together, also, the ejido must be free of any civil or administrative procedure and free of debt; once you put that together, they can give you an authorization to bring that lot, out of the Ejido land, take that authorization to Mexico city and get a SRA authorization to take it out of Ejido Land and only then, it is private property, any other way it is still Ejido Land and that mean, you have to obey the Ejido rules while they are able to get the property back for any reason without giving you money back and of course, be a Mexican; Since all the Baja Ejidos, are all wrong and do not have legal technical works, the ejidos do not know what their land is (of course they say they do) and have not received any land, in a legal way and as a consequence, NO EJIDO IN BAJA CAN SELL YOU LAND FREE OF PROBLEMS; as a consequence, I will never advise any people to buy from a Baja Ejido; that is what doomed the American buyers in Punta Banda, they bought from the Ejido, believed the Baja Governor, that they will not have problems and lost against a National Land title; you may say, that they didn’t knew the complexities, but I personally advised the American Consulate in Tijuana what will happen, they consulted the Baja Governor who told them, there would be no problems and you know what happened.
We have also COLONIAL TITLES that say on them, PROPERTY TITLES, but then, in small letters, say that the owners, must obey the Colonial Law and a whole lot of problems come from those letters.
Colonial titles are not really property titles, they are very similar to a free land concession, that the Mexican government gave to people, to motivate them, to go exploit and live on the land and have those conditions to be met, some people went and registered them as private property titles on the public registry and have been selling for many years as private property but:
Colonial titles are not full private titles, are conditional property titles and are the owner property as long as those conditions were met and if you failed to exploit, live and demonstrate to the land office every year, that you were living and exploiting the land, they simply disappeared and didn’t gave the owner any legal property right and that mean that, if the original owner did not report the exploitation for 2 years, the title became worthless; that is the case for a lot of Ensenada, San Quintin, La Paz and Los Cabos titles, like the Maravia title.
If you were living and reporting he exploitation, you were able to sell those titles, to a third person, but not as normal private property, you had to follow a special procedure, to be able to do it legally; you were obligated to tell the buyer the kind of title he was buying, because he had to obey the same rules, bring him to the SRA and land office, to execute the sale with them, then they issued another new title on the name of the new buyer, obligated to the same rules; and that mean, that nobody can say, that he have one of those titles as precedent, because to be a legal title, the title must be on his name, no way around this.
Those titles were so problematic, that most of the Baja Colonies never started and most titles were void, then in 1994, all the Colonial titles were void and the very few, that were complying with the law and colony rules, were exchanged by National Land titles and that mean, nobody under any circumstances, can say, that their property, have as precedent, a Colonial title and that is the case for Maravia development in La Paz and be aware, that they claim to have a Stewart title insurance and also an American title insurance, but they simply do not have a legal title and are immersed in legal problems because of that.
But the main problem I see in Baja, is that, the public notaries, who are the government delegates to check the property for you, on those matters and responsible for advising you about any problems, simply in Baja, they do not do it, they just check if another public notary made the last inscription and no more, raising the very real and problematic fact, THAT MOST PROPERTIES IN ROSARITO, ENSENADA, LA PAZ AND LOS CABOS HAVE VOID TITLES AS PRECEDENT, casing the problems you face.
But, of course, the public notary will not lose his life savings, if the precedent tile is questioned in court, you will, then, you must check the precedents in what is known as the devil test and that mean, that when you are going to buy a property in Baja, you must check all the property’s precedents, all the way to the National Land office title THAT MUST BE AT THE BOTTOM, and, if you find any other kind of title, just walk away and do not let the public notary or any other people, say otherwise. Not even the American Consulate or the Baja Governor, as Punta Banda “owners” found out the hard way.
IF YOU FOLLOW THIS RULES STRICTLY, YOU CAN BUY PROPERTY IN BAJA SAFELY, DO NOT FOLLOW THEM ND YOU CERTAINLY WILL HAVE PROBLEMS AND LOSE YOUR HOUSE.

Woooosh - 1-10-2011 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Must say, this individual has given more "facts" on buying real estate in Baja than most... which does seems to be proving correct .. saved one buyer from making a big mistake.. has to be proving useful and factual information on the entire process ...

If I were in the market, to buy "property" in Baja or on the main land ... his "knowledge" would be helpful... in the due diligence process IMHO

refreshing for a change, isn't it. I think I've almost beat my horse dead on this one though Wiley... lol


Woooosh ... Think you have gotten all your ducks in a row ... and at this point ... time is on your side... along with the Pacific Ocean !!! ... enjoy your view, it will only improve... as I find it rather hard to believe a structure, which is actively being impacted by direct tidal influence will can pass the test ..... IMHO

Think you got the biggest friend one can have... "Mother Nature"


You are right, the ocean always wins and we cheer-on each high tide event! In fact, the squatter property is surrounded by water almost every day now- so you don't need to be a genius not to tell it's in the Federal Zone. After reading that story about only 200 real estate sales all last year in Rosarito Beach, it's hard to believe building from scratch could be cheaper than buying something already on the market. I noticed house prices finally coming down too- so the hundred or so local Realtors must really be starving. As other's have said, Baja is a renter's dream market for sure as sale prices reset.

burnrope - 1-10-2011 at 05:37 PM

I built my house on a giant turtle. It's not affected by the tide and I can move to different beach when I want to.

Woooosh - 1-10-2011 at 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Woooosh
As you say, either way the buildings are still illegal. We hold the federal concession title and pay every year for it (11 pesos per square meter)- we just don't have control of it's use- as our concession title requires us to. The SEMARNAT Jefe required us to file charges against the squatter Ortiz with the PGR. I do hope they start prosecuting others as you say. Great insight. If you know of people who can move the prosecution process forward on this, U2U me. PROFEPA, SEMARNAT, JPGE and the PGR all have active files on this specific concession area: DZGF 832/08 and DZGF 477/10. Much thanks! Hope to here from you! Woooosh

Your charges against the squater are one of the best ways to get back the use of theFederal Zone, but you must press it every step of the way, but if you hold the concession you have the legal use of that area, then, the act of taking it away from you, is a criminal act with federal jurisdiction.

You are doing the right legal thing, but you must know the Mexican Justice system, it is difficult to move, but once you make it move, it will do the job very effciently and to make it move you have to step on their toes.


You have given us fresh hope. Every few months we get discouraged so we will keep at it. Got a question: If I wanted to be a troublemaker and put my locks on the gates the squatter has in place around the house sitting on our concession- how much trouble would I get in? Can I lock her off? Seems if she can paint over my concession signs and attempt to sell the concession land, I should be able to lock her off my concession. The concession title says I am the only one entitled to use it. Maybe it's time for me to put the pressure on her for a change.

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 05:50 PM

Woooosh
Beside doing the right thing I will give you one of the best advices I can give for your problem, look for an engineer named Daniel Martinez Chavira at the Engineers club in Rosarito and use him as your expert witness, he is one of the best technical experts in the Rosarito's Federal Zone and once he is on your side, he will fight like a dog for you, without making any concessions; he know that particular area problem very well and is very respected in Rosarito by all Rosarito’s authorities.
He is authorized by the Federal Zone and all the Baja courts as a technical expert, he won the CFE against the ejido case and most of the big cases in Rosarito.
He is eccentric but not expensive.

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 05:53 PM

burnrope
That turtle must be the one lost by Hercules, that hold the world, I think, so give it back or the world may go down.:o

Woooosh - 1-10-2011 at 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Woooosh
Beside doing the right thing I will give you one of the best advices I can give for your problem, look for an engineer named Daniel Martinez Chavira at the Engineers club in Rosarito and use him as your expert witness, he is one of the best technical experts in the Rosarito's Federal Zone and once he is on your side, he will fight like a dog for you, without making any concessions; he know that particular area problem very well and is very respected in Rosarito by all Rosarito’s authorities.
He is authorized by the Federal Zone and all the Baja courts as a technical expert, he won the CFE against the ejido case and most of the big cases in Rosarito.
He is eccentric but not expensive.

awesome! Simply awesome. I finally have a next step that doesn't involve being a troublemaker- not my style anyway but I was running out of ideas. Thank you.

wessongroup - 1-10-2011 at 06:06 PM

WoW ... another movie... and we already have film too..

burnrope - 1-10-2011 at 06:27 PM

Nothing wrong with going down.

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 07:02 PM

burnrope
Yes I now, but not everybody together

burnrope - 1-10-2011 at 07:06 PM

This is starting to seem like responce's to a Craigslist posting.

Woooosh - 1-10-2011 at 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by burnrope
This is starting to seem like responce's to a Craigslist posting.

responses? :?::lol:

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 11:38 PM

Woooosh

If I wanted to be a troublemaker and put my locks on the gates the squatter has in place around the house sitting on our concession- how much trouble would I get in? Can I lock her off? Seems if she can paint over my concession signs and attempt to sell the concession land, I should be able to lock her off my concession. The concession title says I am the only one entitled to use it. Maybe it's time for me to put the pressure on her for a change.

Since you alrready started legal procedures and mande a formal comlaint accepting that he is there, that mean you accepted that he has posession, a posession that you claim is not legal and is yours, but you alrready accepted that he has an illegitimate posesion, then if you take that posesion away without a court order, you wuld be commiting a crime known as despojo and will be prosecuted for that crime.
If you hadn't accepted in a formal way her posession, then you would be right, because it is a lot less expensive to just defend your property and lock averybody out than go to court, but if you already made the formal complaint about her illegal ocupation, do not do it, she would be able to put you in jail and believe me, if she put a little money behind her legal actions, you would have given the property away.
If you acted legally, continue acting legally.

ramuma53 - 1-10-2011 at 11:48 PM

woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point.

bajabass - 1-11-2011 at 04:49 AM

So, it all boils down to "the sqeaky wheel gets the grease"! The more noise you make, the more it will cost in bribes, so eventually the other party runs out of money and gives up.

BajaGringo - 1-11-2011 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point.


Very, very true. It also helps if you have any connected friends on your side to remind them of that fact as well...

Woooosh - 1-11-2011 at 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point.

The squeaky wheel approach can take down corruption? That and a good video for public shaming. When I was with the SEMARNAT Jefe (Snr. Villareal) we discussed the impact of the video I made. I told him the Mexican system is not prepared to handle this much "transparency" and the people now believe what they see with their own eyes (my video and I mentioned blog del narco as another example), not what their government is telling them. Widespread internet access and YouTube are forcing officials to act more honestly and openly. He was surprised when I told him there was a "hit-counter" on our YouTube video and of how many people had seen and commented on it. After all, Mayor Torres was the one who forwarded it to him- not us, and it wasn't until we met and discussed the video with him in September that Villareal agreed to gives us the second concession with the new FMZ lines PROFEPA had approved. PROFEPA notified us in May of the approval, but SEMARNAT sat on it until September the video came out. Villareal drew up the Federal title for us within a week of interviewing us and then directed us to have Ortiz evicted by the PGR. I don't think we would have gotten this far without the video. If we were developers or seeking profit from the concessions we may not have success- but the fact we are doing this for the people of Rosarito didn't hurt. I'll be the legal troublemaker- no locks.

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 11:52 AM

Woooosh

Ok I told you he is a little eccentric and that fact is because he is one of the best engineers in Baja, he only work on the cases he likes, actually he has a master degree and a lot of credential, he does not have a cell phone, only a nextel radio 152*15*5874 and his email is dmch_2008@hotmail.com and that is it, tell him I refered you to him, because he does not accept many cases, but you can be sure, he will accept yours.

Talk to him about your problem without any compromise, he will give you his opinion and a proposed way of action and believe me, when he has to fight, he does it better than any other but he know a lot of ways concerning Federal Zone.

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 11:57 AM

Woooosh

That is the right way to work in Mexico and the only way to get results, the public offivcials at first hate you and will try to block you but when the heat get high on them, they become your friends, sorry but that is the mexican way and I preffer not to complain about it, just use it to the full extent.
Also Mother nature will hrelp you, that building will not last the next big storm, it is actually dangerous to its ocupants.

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 12:00 PM

bajabass

You are right here in Mexico and any other place in the world, but now that you know how to obtain results in Mexico, it is only a matter of doing it when you need it and that is this thread's goal.
You are wrong about the fact that when you make a lot of noise, it becomes expensive for the noisy party, it works the other way, noise save you money and corruption offers, they actually start to fear you and become your friends, helping you at the same time, remember that they are there as a business and they will not jeopardize their business for any deal in particular, even if they received money, they prefer to go to the side making the most noise and have the legal reason.


[Edited on 1-11-2011 by ramuma53]

wessongroup - 1-11-2011 at 12:09 PM

This would be so cool Woooosh.. good luck ... think you're getting some really great advice on how to effective deal with your and many others "problems" on issues of this type.. Thanks ramuma53 ..

Don't have a dog in this fight, but it is so good of you to share your vast knowledge on the issue of owning property in Baja and/or Mexico

As for the benefit of Relators in property transactions.. in Baja.. right pal .. they did a great job of protecting all those parties in the States that got really sh*t loans.. which they could not afford.. no responsibility nor liability there (right they just put the fools in front of a loan officer).. curios they got the gold and the buyer got the shaft ...

Don't think ramuma53 has EVER claimed to be a relator ... If so, I stand corrected... I believe all he has ever claim, he studied law, engineering, ran for public office and was affiliated with a news service... If I'm in correct, again I stand corrected.. old age.. ya know how it goes..

Woooosh - 1-11-2011 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
bajabass

You are right here in Mexico and any other place in the world, but now that you know how to obtain results in Mexico, it is only a matter of doing it when you need it and that is this thread's goal

Yes, and it is a very valuable thread. I'm not alone in my appreciation of your knowledge. Making lemonade from lemons. You have to play the game they play, only smarter. The hard part is figuring out who you can trust down here while playing it. I decided there was no one I could trust but the people I am fighting for and just try to get all my ducks lined up. Now I have Snr. Chavira to put all the dots I have created together. I do hope he takes this case. I refuse to pay bribes over this, but I will pay an expert who can help me be an effective troublemaker. Amazingly- more neighbors I have never met in 6 years of being here (not unusual for Mexico) are going out of their way to thank our family for our efforts. That means a lot too. Fighting the good fight is what a Connecticut Yankee does. I commented to Snr. Villareal that I am not a gringo. I am a CT Yankee who is revolutionary by nature and fights for the people. I don't think he had hard that before, and it accurately reflects my commitment to this cause.

(Do you any idea of how many "Turtle Bust" pages I had to go through to get your real name? lol)

[Edited on 1-11-2011 by Woooosh]

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 02:27 PM

Woooosh
I am not a realtor and have never been.
I am civil Engineer and attorney at Mexican law, plus 25 years experience as expert withness on those matters, that is why I know the good and bad expert withnesses.
Yes I was 50% owner of ABC Baja Estate newspaper where I wrote La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito and Cronica de un Fraude a la Nacion, series articles that lasted 5 years and 122 whole pages, exactly about that problem in Rosarito.
Now I consider myself just a developer.

Yes you may be a just a gringo in Rosarito, but remember that almost 80% of the Rosarito's income and taxes comes direct or indirect from Gringos and I learned that when I ran for the Natinal Senate office for Baja.

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 02:33 PM

For people who need it.
I have a personal documents file, starting in 1825, that is better than most public offices, concerning the Tijuana to Ensenada corridor, incluiding official newspapers and official federal zone maps, that you can not get any other place and I can provide that for specific problems.

ramuma53 - 1-11-2011 at 02:49 PM

wessongroup
Concerning the Rosarito's realtors, I am sorry to say it, but you can not trust most of them, they are in bed with the people who caused the problems and their only interest is in getting your money and get their commision, not to protect your life savings.
Public notaries, are not the solution, they are part of the problem.
Attorneys? be extremely carfull, only 1 in 10 are good and know what they are talking about concerning Federal Zone and National land.
Public officials? no way, they are itersted in maintaining the problems.
Who to trust? nobody, trust your own knowledge and follow your instinct.

I am going to tell you an attorney's joke.

On the question on how to diferentiate a good from a bad attorney.

Take a cat with you the first time you meet with him.
if the cat gets angry and try to attack him, do not use him.
if the cat is afraid of him, use him.
Why?
Because if the attroney is a rat, the cat will attack him and if he fight like a dog, the cat would be afraid of him.
make yourown conclusions.

wessongroup - 1-11-2011 at 07:50 PM

Would you share some of your writings on "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito"

Can only think it would be great to read, one side of my wife's family married into a family named Duron in Rosarito and the Hernandez from Tijuana

One of the men still lived and worked in TJ in 1964 when I first met my wife's great grandmother "Moma Goya"... still remember being so amazed at how clean the yard and home were, even with dirt floors... and the house was freshly painted, it was up in the hill to the south to TJ, didn't know exactly where I was ... was getting turning directions from my wife's cousin Chuck Hernandez...

The men used to tell us stories about how good there life was in Rosarito back in the 30-40's .. go down and catch dinner.. had row crops and water... sound house that keep the rain out.. and kept you warm in the winter... but, the women, wanted what all women want... dishwashers, shopping ya, know what I'm talking about.. so they all moved up to East L.A in the late 40's after the war.. except for Uncle Joe.. he stayed in TJ and worked in the produce market.. as did Mr Hernandez.. (who later became head sales man for the Caplan's who sold produce at Terminal market in downtown Los Angeles.. and it was Frieda Caplan who introduced the Kiwi and other specialty crops into the American food supply)..

But, I would sure like to read some of your work on the subject



[Edited on 1-17-2011 by wessongroup]

ramuma53 - 1-13-2011 at 08:57 PM

wessongroup

La verdadera Historia de Rosarito is the True Rosarito history.
The reason to write a true history is because the History a lot of people invented was a fairy tale and on that fairy tale, they were trying to base the Real Estate sales in Rosarito.
The first article was ¨Cronica de un Fraude a la Nacion¨ or ¨fraud against the Nation story¨ and was motivated on the Fraud that a lot of realtors and big land owners were trying to execute in harm to the national land property.
The then accepted history was that Joaquin Machado was the Rancho Rosarito owner in 1879 and supposedly he inherited the property from his father Don Juan Machado who received it from the Governor don Jose Maria Echendia in 1825, but I discovered the legal root to demonstrate that that Property right was inexistent and as a consequence, all the Rosarito Area was in 1995 National Land and not private property as everyone assumed.

Woooosh - 1-13-2011 at 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
wessongroup

I discovered the legal root to demonstrate that that Property right was inexistent and as a consequence, all the Rosarito Area was in 1995 National Land and not private property as everyone assumed.


I'm sure you're a popular guy up here in Rosarito! LOL

wessongroup - 1-15-2011 at 12:50 PM

Thank you very much for your sharing some of your knowledge on this subject, as it does and/or should help many folks here in understanding real estate transactions in Baja and Mexico.. IMHO

Marc - 1-15-2011 at 07:31 PM

I would just rent or lease. Someday the REAL owner is going to show up!:o:o:o

larryC - 1-16-2011 at 08:24 AM

Ramuma
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or hi-jack this one, but I have a question about fideocomiso lot sizes. I have always heard that the maximum lot size was 2000 sq. meters. 2 years ago I bought an existing fideocomiso and the surveyed lot size is 4400 sq. meters. Does that sound right to you?
Larry

ramuma53 - 1-16-2011 at 05:48 PM

LarryC
The fideicomiso is a glorified lease contract, collateralized by the bank, the bank serve as the legal rights depository for the life of the fideicomiso and being a lease contract, it has no limit but the constitutional one for 2500 has or 25'000,000 m2, I know a lot of fideicomisos a lot bigger than that and dealing with tourist kind of lot, they have lower limit of 400 m2 but no upper limit.
The lot sizes depend o the Fraccionamiento law or land development law and that law say that a 2000 m2 lot is called granja failiar or family lot but that is a minimum also no upper limit for family lots and being categorized like that mean that the developer is not obligated to put pavment or concrete on the streets, he is obligaed only to the bare bones public installations.

ramuma53 - 1-16-2011 at 06:13 PM

Mark
If you rent or lease you will not have problems, but the usual situation in Baja is that the American guy, rent long term to be able to build a house that he is planning to use for his golden years walking the beach.
The problem with National Land is that they do not have any hurry to start the problems, they usually wait untill the area is developed and then the problem start, that is exactly the case for Punta Banda in Ensenada, and that was the case that exploded the Real Estate crisis in the Tijuana Ensenada coastal strip, because the Supreme Court ruled for National Land.
After that, it is only a matter of time, it is a big time bomb and local politicians have tried to hide that fact for 20 years now, but for National Land rights there is no status of limitations or any time limit, they can start today or in 20 years when the strip would be full of towers bought and paid by Baby Boomers,
Just see the 3 tower complexes built by the Hugo Torres Chavert group; the 3 are on National Land already sold by the nation to another people.
To be able to sell while many people know about the very high risk, they invented the in house title insurance, in other words, the same company based in Islas del Caiman in the Caribbean, sell the insurance, well even the company is named Los Gatos or the cats, and I think that they did it to mean that they will be very hard to catch when they start running.
That is why Hugo Torres Chavert has been so interested in occupying city offices at all costs.
My first article on the public press in Baja was Cronica de un fraude a la Nacion and that story has not ended yet.
To avoid this problem, in 1992, I maneuvered in Mexico city to convince the National Land department to come to the Rosarito area to regularize the land ownership and I managed to bring a small commission, but they expected to acquire 20 or 30 files and sent personnel for that job; then in 3 months they received 5,500 files and almost went crazy working 20 hours a day.
Then the first PAN governor, Governor Ruffo, asked the President to end the land regularization in Rosarito, because it was too conflictive and tourist would be scared away if they knew all the land lots and condominiums were not really owned by the people receiving the money from them and managed to close the commission with only 4 or 5 titles issued while at the same time in Puebla they issued 16,000 to an area with the same problems and let me tell you, that area now has no problems while Rosarito is in a Real Estate chaos.
Yes that made me a very popular guy in Rosarito, with the big land owners and developers who were tying at all cost to put the national land issue under the rug and they succeeded, with the actual situation resulting.
I was unpopular with them, but gained me the nomination to the National senate for Baja, I lost of course because I was issued $10,000 pesos for my whole campaign, money that was lost and never arrived anyway, but I managed to bring the highest number of votes in any estate for that party, most of them in the Rosarito Area.
The Rosarito Story has not ended, it will, with a lot of Punta Bandas and I hope that, with this information, many Americans avoid getting entangled in that problem, saving Mexico another fiasco.

[Edited on 1-17-2011 by ramuma53]

Marc - 1-16-2011 at 08:40 PM

This information is a must read for anyone thinking of buying. I would consider only renting in Mexico. I have a place in Hawaii, on Maui that was so EASY. I could not imagine going through the complexities and stress of buying property in Mexico.

ELINVESTIG8R - 1-19-2011 at 02:56 PM

I will never buy a house in Mexico but if I were to buy one I would sure heed Rafael's advice. He is the sage of real estate dealings as far as I'm concerned.

ELINVESTIG8R - 1-21-2011 at 05:33 AM

Rafael,
Based on your experiences in business and having dealt in real estate yourself, would you please consider making a list of the correct procedures in going about buying a home or land in Baja. Can you also list the warning signs they should be looking for to tell them not to get involved with someone and how they can recover their money if they are taken advantage of. I hope this is not asking too much of you. I for one would trust your advice and I'm sure others would too. Thank you!
David

From the Sundog Site

bajaguy - 1-21-2011 at 07:13 AM

.Baja Real Estate Deal Sours for U.S. Investors
By T.B. Beaudeau | Published Thursday, Jan. 20, 2011

This week, Tijuana's daily Frontera reported that a four-million-dollar fraud was claimed by a group of U.S. citizens who bought into a Baja real estate scheme.

Plaintiffs' attorney Monica Gutierrez is quoted as saying that in 2006, Realty Executives (a Mexican firm) sold to U.S. investors a multi-unit condo complex to be called La Esmeralda del Mar. The project, which was supposed to rise in the vicinity of Puerto Nuevo, has never been initiated.

About 30 investors made large deposits on the property in advance. Realty Executives reportedly cannot produce proof that they were legally qualified to sell such a project.

The lawyer added that the project was kicked off with the gathering of deposits, but in 2009 the plaintiffs filed a lawsuit to get their money back when the project failed to get off the ground.

ramuma53 - 1-23-2011 at 10:16 AM

Baja Guy
That Project is just an example, of the kind of problems in that area, but the problem is not that complex.
Rule 1.- Do not buy in the Tijuana, Ensenada Coastal strip, unless they show you the national land Title, they will tell you 1000 excuses, but No national Land title, no buy, that is easy and I warn you, there are very few and none of the big developments have one, specially the La Joya del Mar development in Rosarito or the one you mention Esmeralda del mar.
Why? They are over National land that has not been cleared by the courts or formally sold by the National Land offcice and at this time is National land, that is why they offer the ¨in house title insurance¨, exactly the legal act that defines that area as national Land is ¨Declaratoria de Terrenos Nacionales 1952¨ they will tell you that the Torres group has an impeccable reputation, but it is not true, all their developments are in national Land or irregular properties and under very unreliable companies, like ¨Los Gatos¨ a Caiman island company, that hold the one in Rosarito downtown, they claim to have bought the land from the Ejido Mazatlan but they certainly know they bought National Land on false grounds and remember that National Land has no status of limitations, anyone who buys there, should be aware that they are in line for another Punta Banda.
In Mexico City the National Land office has procedures that in time will take back that land, to the rightful owners, they take a long time but they certainly end one day, like Punta Banda.
On that strip, The key to buy land, is, National land title or no buy, do not hear the public notary or public officials, they are the source of the problem, not the people who will correct it, they are very interested in hiding the National Land issue, but it has surfaced again and again for 25 years and it is not going out.

Some people will question what use is to know history about a place and let me tell you why.
PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW HISTORY, IS CONDEMNED TO REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES
Sun Tzu wrote in the art of war, that, if you do some things, you will be sure to win a conflict and if you do not do those things, you would be sure to lose the conflict, this is the case, if you follow that rule, you will be able to buy safely in Baja. You will be asked to violate this rule by many people you should be able to trust, do not.

They certainly know of the problem, they know of the correcting action they need to take, but since they are over national Land, they do not want to buy from the nation the land again, mostly because the price is about USD$100.00 dlls/m2, but they are selling it to you, at over USD$3,500.00 dlls/m2 built, they surely have room to correct the problem, but so far, they have been trying to hide the fact at all costs. In my opinion a stupid act, but that is the actual situation.

ramuma53 - 1-23-2011 at 10:32 AM

Key factors to buy in Baja
1.- Do not buy from Ejidos unless you are prepared to spend years in courts.
2.- Do not buy from Colonial Titles, no exceptions.
3.- If you only are show a Public Notary scripture, follow it back untill you find the property´s source, it must be a national Land title, no exceptions, no court orders, no court rullings, no historic titles issued 1879-1917 even if National land titles, No national land titles 1965-1969.
4.- do not hear public notaries or public offcials asuring you everything is right, only trust your knowledge.

Now, oportunities
Most people do not know that the Federal Zone laws changed in 1992 and the 20 mts. from the sea strip rule do no apply anymore.
The new Federal Zone definition is:
Where the coast show a beach and the solid ground beside the beach has a slope of 30 degrees or less, a federal zone will be measured.
That mean, that if you are beside a cliff, the slope is well over 30 degrees and no Federal Zone exist consequently you should not be paying for it.
Do not belive the Rosarito public officials on this issue, Rosarito beach city income, come 25% from Federal zone charges and 90% of those charges are to properties beside cliffs, that have no Federal Zone.
We have won a lot of cases for people who were being charged for a Federal Zone that does not exist and this apply all over Mexico since the Federal Zone law is a Federal one.

[Edited on 1-23-2011 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 1-23-2011 at 10:52 AM

How to recover your money once you bought land and problems explode when some people claim to own that land specially if they have a National Land title and the developer not.

You may be covered by a Title insurance issued by First American Title insurance or Stewart title insurance, most others are just sellers for those two; if you do try to ask them to pay for your house, but be aware that they put a lot of fine print to protet themselves, so when you buy, read the fine print and check yourself the property papers, don not fully trust them, they make a lot of mistakes, just see the Maravia development in La Paz or La Joya del mar in Rosarito with an in house title insurance.
If not, you will be paying for not following the rules to buy in Baja and you will be crying like the Punta banda guys.

ramuma53 - 1-24-2011 at 07:22 PM

Mark
Yes I know, but our authorities are to blame for this one, they make things so difficult, that difficulties pile up and nobody wants to do things the right way.
This make buying property in some of Mexico´s Estates very difficult, if not impossible, like Baja Norte and a little less Baja South, but most of Mexico Estates have the property ownership well established and that make easy to buy and sell property, but in Baja Norte, in 1992, when the PAN party took the estate, they made of property stealing a way of getting funds for the party and made a mess of the public registry in Baja Norte.
In 1992 Governor Ruffo took the Estate and his cousin started Punta Banda making deals with an ejido, you know the Punta Banda embarrassment for Mexico and Pan party is about to go out of power everywhere.
That year or 1992, I sent a report to the Federal government, about the Tijuana Ensenada coastal strip land ownership problem, and they knowing that that strip was very important for tourism, immediately sent a National Land office commission, to correct the problems and make the property ownership less cucumber some and dangerous, they sent a 5 person team expecting to get a few files a month, but they got 6000 the first month, they informed Mexico city and expected urgent help, reporting my report true and a chaos in the land ownership, because most of the land was still National Land and almost everybody was a squatter including the Rosarito town leaders like Hugo Torres Chavert, who where basing they supposed property in titles declared nil by the Constitution.
Instead of help, Governor Ruffo asked the Mexico President Salinas to take out that commission, because he had land on the coast, that they claimed was national Land; The president knowing that Ruffo was the first Pan and non PRI Governor, just took off the commission and land ownership froze in Baja Norte with the actual situation erupting, letting him hang himself and his party and at the same time punishing the first estate who voted PRI out of power.
Governor Ruffo was trying to avoid paying to the nation for his illegally acquired land and put the whole estate in jeopardy, jeopardy that turned in to real danger and damage today.
Pan will certainly lose power in the Estate in 3 years more, but we start to see signs that the government want to correct the problem and recognize that almost all the Tijuana to Ensenada coastal strip is National Land and now ask for that commission that started work in 1992 to finish their job.
That will make easy and safe to buy land in Baja north.
Until then, I can only warn you and tell you how to avoid the dangers, it is possible, but you have to know how, also remember that when you have a knowhow and things are difficult, that open a door of opportunity for the one who know.

BajaGringo - 1-24-2011 at 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
...but in Baja Norte, in 1992, when the PAN party took the estate, they made of property stealing a way of getting funds for the party and made a mess of the public registry in Baja Norte.


I am really glad you brought that up Rafael. There are some RE agents right now selling property here in the San Quintin area, waving copies of title from the public registry to ¨prove¨ their legal ownership, including promises that same properties qualify for title insurance.

I know for a fact that some of those same properties just happen to be caught up in the national land dispute you have explained with one big case that has now been ruled in favor of the national land point of view (for the third time), the latest decision rendered by the highest court of Mexico. The proverbial caca will be hitting the fan here shortly on that one.

This is a great thread and I am really glad that you have taken the time to share your expertise...

ramuma53 - 1-25-2011 at 09:13 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: William J. Casey, Jr.
To: director@munoz-industries.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: Please call me at 686.577.6228 or in U.S. at 408.868.4992


We are a group of 200+ “buyers” of real estate that have been defrauded in San Felipe.

You can see the story written by ZETA on 2JAN2011.

We are trying to work with the new Mexicali Major “Pancho” Tejeda, but it seems like he will do nothing to help us.

We have forums on Facebook, Yahoo Groups and EONS.

Maybe we could work together to get action on the rampant developer and government corruption in Baja California.

www.sanfelipedevelopments.com

http://www.zetatijuana.com/html/EdicionActual/Reportajez_Mil...

The zeta article is not visible at the URL you sent me, but I will look for it, thank you.

Regarding that problem, you are right, even if the new majors are PRI party now, I do not expect them to start correcting a problem that started when Governor Ruffo started.

I do not know what legal avenues are you taking, but if you let me know, I will certainly advise you on the exact legal way you will need to acquire legal land status and that mean legal title that will stand in time.

I know about the land property problem in that area, since most of that area is national land but with titles issued in several ways, so please send me the exact problems and I will be able to send you the exact title concerning that site, because that area is known as El Moreno and there are a lot of titles with 100 Has. each, I am sending you one of those titles to see if we are talking about the same area.

There are several options depending on your exact information:

1.- You problem arises from a lack of a National land title

Then you are in a Federal Fraud against the nation a against you of course, but the main player would be the federal government and you the help, but in that case you can ask for your money back, as a compensation, name a Mexican national representative and holding your absolute confidence, sign contracts with him and make him claim that property to the National Land office, it takes time and follow procedures, but you will end up with a legal ownership through a fideicomiso if you are foreigner or direct ownership if you are a Mexican national, also you must know that if your lot is near the sea, the price you will pay to the nation will be about USD$100.00 dlls/m2.

2.- Your problem arises from the existence of a national title but lack of development permits and that mean lack of F1, F2, F3 and F4 permits, the last one signed by the governor.

That mean you are going to follow the Estate law and common criminal case as Fraude Equiparado against the developer, who would be responsible for fraud and must return your investment plus damages; that is the law, but if the guy know what he is doing, he can extend that for 10 years until you all forget about him, unless you press hard on the international press.

Hope this will help you but this is as much as I can help with the information you give me.

Ing. & Lic. Rafael Muñoz Martinez

ramuma53 - 1-25-2011 at 09:21 PM

BajaGringo
If the title they are showing, is the national Land title, known as the Orendain title that cover most of San Quintin town but not the coastal area, you may have hope, but if not, you will certainly will be over National land, that may have been a Colony and have colonial titles, that at this time, are worthless, the titles may say on them, Property title, but if you see the fine print, you will find ¨issued under the Colony Law¨or Ley de Colonias and if you find that law you will see why those titles are worthless, they also disapeared in 1994 and few that were exploited acording to the law, were exchanged by National land titles, with full property rights so, the colonial titles that exist now, even if registered as private property, are worthless and the only way to acquire real ownership would be to obtain a National Land title based on posession only.

ramuma53 - 1-26-2011 at 09:53 AM

From: William J. Casey, Jr.
To: 'Rafael Munoz'
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: Please call me at or in U.S. at

The Baja Property owners cooperative is made up of fraud victims from over 17 developments in and around San Felipe.

Attached please find one “title” for one such development: Vista Bella

Like most other frauds in san felipe, this “developer” took money and did not deliver individual titles or the utilities or roads, and He is not working to get the f4.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. William Casey

If they received money, before having the F4 permit that include the governor signature, with title or without it, it is called FRAUDE EQUIPARADO and has a 6 to 12 years criminal penalty in Baja California.

This felony is committed by any person who make any kind of development (roads, services etc.) before the F4 permit.

The F4 permit, is the definitive land development authorization issued by the Estate government, signed by the Estate governor, authorizing the definitive shape the development will hold, assuring the future buyers that there will be no future changes in urban design, including green areas and donation to the government that total about 10% of the saleable area;defining the roads and services authorization by each of the services providers, water, sewage disposal and electricity with also the Estate land usage permit and Federal environmental permit; all those have to be issued before the F4; meaning that when you have F4, you are in developer´s heaven and if not, you are in developer´s hell and maybe in jail.

To get the F4, may take years or never, while you legally are liable for Fraude Equiparado, if you even try to sell, or make development works, in any way before you have F4, liable for 6 to 12 years in jail penalty.

This is designed to protect the buyer from urban or lot changes or buying in a place that does not have all the qualities for urban development and that may be your case.

I think that, they may be lacking legal title or federal enviromental permit and in consequence, the F4 permit has not been issued while may never be and they are in between a rock and a hard place with you, because they cannot give you legal title or development acts (roads or services), because if they do it, they would be instantly liable for criminal acts and they prefer to deal with you instead of the Estate government.

I know part of that area, has been rendered Biosphere reserve and in consequence, not usable for development and that may be the problem for the issuing of the F4 permit, but that does not change the fact that you are the victim in a Fraude Equiparado, a common law criminal act, but if you put on the table, the National Land factor and the Biosphere reserve prohibition, you may well be, also before some Federal crimes.

I think that the best way of action for your group is to file individual criminal charges, but keep them together, because you should know that in Mexico there are no class actions and criminal or civil charges must be filled by each person, because any ruling will benefit only the ruled party.

I expect you to have very little help from the Estate authorities and some from the city authorities, but this case should be under Estate jurisdiction and or Federal Jurisdiction and in both cases they may be in bed with the developers while the City official may not.

Concerning attorneys, I would consider getting a Mexico city law firm without ties to Baja California and using the fact that you have federal crimes involved, use the Mexcio city judges and police to investigate the case with help form the American embasy.

Also, as you are Foreigners, you should be protected by Fideicomisos and that mean that the bank is the one that should be the legally interested party, because they are the ones who will have to give you back your money in case of the fideicomiso default.

If you are not under a fideicomiso, you are in deep troubles but that mean we will have to find other ways and believe me, there are a lot of ways.

Ing. & Lic. Rafael Muñoz Martinez

[Edited on 1-26-2011 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 1-26-2011 at 10:44 AM

From: William J. Casey, Jr.
To: 'Rafael Munoz'
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Please call me at 686.577.6228 or in U.S. at 408.868.4992


At the Mexicali Urban Department under the previous Municipal Presidente, (2) administrators (Magana and Sanchez) were known to be corrupt. They did not stop the 17+ developers from selling without permits.

Some of the failed “developments” are in the biosphere, but this has not stopped urbanization from issuing F4s in this area (El Dorado Ranch and Playa De Oro for example).

We have filed 50++ complaints with PROFECO, but they have done nothing to help. We worked with both PROFECO-Mexicali and PROFECO-Mexico City.


The problem is that the PGJE and the court system in San Felipe is also known to be corrupt. Several of our members have won their case, their appeal and also the Supreme Court challenge… yet the judge NEVER has awarded any of them with clear title to the land they paid for!

So:

· Feds have done nothing (we have even been in contact with the Mexican Ambassador in D.C.)

· BC state has done nothing (we worked with the Director of the BC Tourism for several months with no success), and

· Mexicali has done nothing

The person that the Urban Administration has “put in charge” of the San Felipe land scams is now Monica Perez. Monica is the niece of Ascolani (Mayor Pancho Tejada’s #1 advisor) and is also believed to have been the secretary for Miguel Sanchez, who was #2 at Mexicali Urban Administration when all the frauds were allowed to happen due to lax enforcement of all municipal regulations.

Unless we get the government to crack down, the crooked “developers” will continue their fraud.

We will be ramping up our campaign to involve our contacts in the U.S. Congress and the press.

We should talk.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Casey
I know Magana and definitively he is corrupt and of course, that was their business, allowing illegal developments and making it difficult for land developers to get the F4, so they would have to pay them for it, big amounts and even a few development blocks.

PROFECO has only recommendation powers, will not solve anything by itself but it is possible it may help.



Criminal charges will never get you clear title, only prosecute the developer; you only hope may be to recover your money through your fideicomiso.



The North Baja PGJE is not only corrupt like few in the world, it depends on the Estate District attorney who may very well re define the word corruption and will remain so while the PAN is in power, because they protect their officers against all law or logic.

The supreme court in Baja is known as the Persian Market, that mean, you will have to pay for a ruling and the problem is not only that it is corruption, it is a biding market, if the developer bids more than you, they get the ruling and against that ruling there are no legal recourses.



The whole system is corrupt and designed that way to protect criminal who pay and that is the real enemy, that is why Baja is being reported all over the world as a none fit place to buy.



The only way I have found to go around them is to use Mexico city courts using federal law and I do not mean that Mexico city courts are honesty examples, only it is a lot more difficult for the developers to buy them all and at the same time their influence is low, while corruptions is less expensive.



That is why I advise you to use a well known Mexico city law firm to put all the cases together and on different courts while using the embassy and press, believe me, that will put them in jeopardy while in Baja they are secured by the system they know corrupt and under their spell.



Mr. Casey, I would be happy to talk to you on the phone at any time, I am in Mexico city, my cell phone is 554 373 8603 and in the past I have advised the USA Embassy and Baja Consulate, concerning this kind of problems like Punta Banda, but by experience I prefer the email for bulk communications, because it will be useful for you to have all this in writing.



I can also help you by referring you to professionals who are corruption proof and have been fighting this system for 20 years and wining, because you should know that Baja’s attorneys are also very adept to making deals between them and very ignorant about National land issues.

I use Mexico´s law firms to handle all my cases in both Bajas, it cost me in traveling expenses, but not as much as to lose cases because corruption among attorneys.



Ing. & Lic. Rafael Muñoz Martinez

[Edited on 1-26-2011 by ramuma53]

BajaGringo - 1-26-2011 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
BajaGringo
If the title they are showing, is the national Land title, known as the Orendain title that cover most of San Quintin town but not the coastal area, you may have hope, but if not, you will certainly will be over National land, that may have been a Colony and have colonial titles, that at this time, are worthless, the titles may say on them, Property title, but if you see the fine print, you will find ¨issued under the Colony Law¨or Ley de Colonias and if you find that law you will see why those titles are worthless, they also disapeared in 1994 and few that were exploited acording to the law, were exchanged by National land titles, with full property rights so, the colonial titles that exist now, even if registered as private property, are worthless and the only way to acquire real ownership would be to obtain a National Land title based on posession only.


Thanks Rafael - I did buy in the coastal area but not from Orendain. I did my homework and researched the area before spending any money, discovering the very problem of the land dispute concerning terrenos nacionales. In fact I was able to obtain a copy of the document which would be the equivalent to the federal register, where the Mexican federal government proclaims these coastal areas to be terrenos nacionales.

I bought from someone who had a land title that originated from the federal government and listed as terreno nacional, not colonial. I also checked it out with a trusted attorney who is very aware of the problem over terreno nacional and got his OK before moving forward.

Thanks again for this thread - very good information...




[Edited on 1-27-2011 by BajaGringo]

ramuma53 - 1-26-2011 at 09:53 PM

Bajagringo
my respects for you, I wish every American were as carefull as you were when they buy property in Mexico, specially in Baja, but I have found that they suspend logic and some times, intelligence, just assuming that everything in Mexico is crooked naturally and then allowing the most buizarre things to happen in front of them.
I think you should be their advisor.

Woooosh - 1-26-2011 at 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Bajagringo
my respects for you, I wish every American were as carefull as you were when they buy property in Mexico, specially in Baja, but I have found that they suspend logic and some times, intelligence, just assuming that everything in Mexico is crooked naturally and then allowing the most buizarre things to happen in front of them.
I think you should be their advisor.

He has helped a few of us already. :yes:

Rafael

desertcpl - 1-27-2011 at 11:15 AM

you had mentioned here in an earlier post about San Felipe. and you mentioned El Dorado Ranch properties, can you expand a little more about this, we have some very good friends of ours that has owned property there for years , several years ago they were offered the opportunity to get title for there property which they did, I believe the developer is a Canadian named Pat Butler

ramuma53 - 1-27-2011 at 07:43 PM

The only title, you as foreigners can have on the forbiden by the Constiotution strips is through a Fideicomiso, there is no other legal way.
North of San Felipe, there are a lot of national Titles in an area named El Moreno, but that strip has been declared as biosphere reserve and the Estate is witholding any construction permit until that matter is cleared, but they are taking years to do it and in the mean while, they do not let the developers give legal title or make development works.
We hope that will change soon, but you never know.
El Dorado Ranch is south of that area and has a national land as precedent, the owner has been trying for years to finish his development legally, but it looks like he has a lot of problems doing it.

ramuma53 - 1-27-2011 at 09:45 PM

La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito
Since we want to learn from other people experience, instead of committing the same mistakes, I will let you know, the True Rosarito Story published by me, on the ABC newspaper and please let me tell you, that every single fact, I mention here, is backed up, by legal documents, that have been tested and sustained already in Federal courts.

Around 1810, there was a Penal colony in San Diego California Mexico and the guys who guarded it, were called the LEATHER JACKETS, whose Captain was a fellow named Don Juan Machado, who made such a good work and impressed so much the territory Governor, that in 1825 the Governor Jose Maria Echendia, gave him for his services, 2 big cattle sites that had about 19,311.61 Hectares in El Rosario, now Rosarito Beach.
As you know, in 1848 California changed from being Mexico to part of the USA and people born in San Diego, was given the chance to say what country they wanted to belong, Mexico or USA and Don Juan Machado with his family became USA citizens.
In 1863, the national Land law, was issued by Mexico´s President Benito Juarez, you can consult that law in a book named ¨5 siglos de Legislacion Agraria de Manuel Fabila ¨ From that law:
Article 2 say, that it was forbidden to any of Mexico´s authorities to give away or sell National Land, specially the Estates governors also that it was forbidden to any person to own more than 2,500 Hectares, also that it was forbidden to any foreigner and Mexican not living in Mexico, to own any property in Mexico.
Article 10 say, that if the person who claimed National Land, did not make use of the land by putting on the land, at least 1 person for each 10 hectares, the title will become void.
Article 27 say, any violation to any article of this law rendered the title void and inexistent.
Then Benito Juarez died, the Second Empire Raised and fell and President Porfirio Dias took power in 1876, ending the chaos and starting the civil government in Mexico.
In 1878, the son of Don Juan Machado, Joaquin Machado Valdez, knowing that his father title was void, claimed the El Rosario Ranch with 19,311 hectares from National Land office, in 1879 the title was issued by the President Porfirio Diaz and the title registered in 1885.
In 1889, a delegate was sent to Rancho El Rosarito owned by Joaquin Machado Valdez, brothers and co proprietors, to check if they had complied with the law, having at least 1 person for each 10 hectares, or at least 1,931 people, they failed for 500 people bringing even children and the failure to complain with the law documented officially.
In 1894, President Porfirio Diaz, issued a new National Land law (Ley de Terrenos Nacionales de Don Wistano Luis Orozco), allowing people to own more than 2,500 hectares of land, but in the exceptions to the law chapter, he say, that you can own as much land you needed, but not more than the amount of land allowed by the Benito Juarez 1863 law.
President Porfirio Diaz did this, to make a joke of a deal, he had made with American companies that were given ½ of the land, they surveyed in Baja California, named Compañias Deslindadoras; the American companies, went ahead and surveyed the whole Baja, expecting to own ½ Baja, but the law didn´t allow them to own more than the 2500 hectares limit, but they didn’t know it and measured the whole Estate, only latter knew of the law prohibition, but by then the Federal government had already the survey works.
In 1910 Mexican Revolution erupted, Civil war everywhere, to try to overthrow the dictator Porfirio Diaz, who had governed Mexico then for 34 years, war went over for 5 years, up to 1915.
In 1915 Porfirio Diaz was almost finished and had to go to France in disgrace and without money.
Then, everybody was commenting that the land limit will remain like in 1863, no more than 2,500 hectares will be allowed and the word went all the way to San Francisco California, where the Machado Family lived away from war, as American citizens.
Joaquin Machado had died as American citizen and is buried that way in California USA.
The then Machado family composed of 11 of Don Joaquin Machado Valdez sons and daughters started to sell the Racho El Rosarito 19,311 Has. In San Francisco, through the Mexican Consul there; they sold it to a Mexican company born in 1915 in Mexicali B.C. named ¨Compañia Explotadora de la Baja California¨whose main stock holder, holding 99.8% of the company stock was a Canada Born person named Danzinger, the 2/10 % was owned by 2 Mexicans and one of them lived in San Diego California, I should add, that they never got a permit to own stock in a Mexican company.
The sales are registered in the number one of Tijuana Public Registry´s book, scriptures number 1 through 19.
In 1916, The named President Carranza, having finished the Revolucion and having overthrown the Dictator Porfirio Diaz, published a presidential decree (Official newspaper May 7, 1917) declaring that all the Baja California Lands, that were in foreigners hands, returned to the national Land dominium and property, like the Hartford Connecticut company, making an example of that company.
In 1917, the new constitution was published by The Mexico´s President Don Venustiano Carranza, and it´s 27 article, it say that all the titles issued between 1876 and 1917 were subjected to revision by the national land office to avoid validate any title that violated the 1863 law.
Knowing that he had just lost all the just acquired land, the Canadian owner of Rancho El Rosarito promptly gave away the El Rosarito Ranch, to his wife, named Daisy Moreno, an Spanish actress, expecting, that nobody will notice she was not a Mexican, with the name being similar to a Mexican name.
As you see, The Rancho El Rosarito´s area violate the 1863 law, making it, and object outside of the law, not fit to be given away by any authority.
The 1894 law, did not validated that sale, and that mean, that the Joaquin Machado Valdez was inexistent, according to the 1863 law article 27 and inexistence in those years, was the fact that the legal act, affected by it, never started to exist, in other words, the Joaquin Machado Valdez title, never started to exist, also, if it ever existed, by violation of the article 10 of the same law, it suffered again of in existence. Simply, there is no way to argue, that that title exist or have any legal effect, after that, but if something else were needed, when the Machado family sold the land to a foreign owned company, it came under the effect of the Venustiano Carranza decree, returning those lands to the National Property, if we want to speculate that at any time, it came out.
I should mention, that when I exposed this information to the COPLADEN official meeting in Tijuana´s Presidential palace, being present at that meeting, the Tijuana Major Hector Osuna (Now Senator) and all of the Tijuana public notaries, one of them, argued that the May 7, 1917 decree was not legitimate, because it was not issued by an elected President; remembering that Venustiano Carranza was named, not elected and under that light, all of the Venustiano Carranza´s acts, would be voided also, but then, I counter argued, that if that was the case, then being all of the Venustiano Carranzas legal acts, voided, then if he was the President that by his act, put in effect the Mexico´s actual constitution, then Mexico would not have an acting Constitution and no law was in effect in Mexico at that time; being that an absurd, everybody accepted the 1917 decree as legal and in effect.
This lecture was also issued at the Tijuana´s Commerce Chamber the next year by me, to all of the public officials and Real Estate agents and public notaries, so nobody can claim not knowing.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by ramuma53]

[Edited on 1-30-2011 by ramuma53]

wessongroup - 1-27-2011 at 10:18 PM

Thanks for the history lesson, lots of hard work done... thanks for sharing... it all helps...

ramuma53 - 1-31-2011 at 09:49 AM

I am writing the Second part, from 1917 to 1994 history, in couple of days I will post it.

ramuma53 - 1-31-2011 at 10:26 PM

Wooosh
I would not want to see you in legal trouble.
Concession rights are just that a consession to use the land on the activity you asked permission to do, it does not mean you can forbid anybody else to cross or to use the land on any other use you are not concessioned to use it, It mean you are the only one allowed to use it that way, it does not mean any other people can not use it in another way, remember that after all you are in public property.
That mean you can not forbid anybody else to cross or use it in any other way different than the one you have.
It is against the law to fence Federal Zone or forbid anybody else to cross the Federal Zone, it is not like private property, it is Public property where you are allowed to use it in a certain way only.
So Fence it or forbid anybody to enter it is against Federal law and they will certainly prosecute for it.
I recommend you to just enjoy the Federal zone and forget about that lady and if she break the law, just throw the book at her, but do not allow her to do it at you.

Woooosh - 2-1-2011 at 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Wooosh
I would not want to see you in legal trouble.
Concession rights are just that a consession to use the land on the activity you asked permission to do, it does not mean you can forbid anybody else to cross or to use the land on any other use you are not concessioned to use it, It mean you are the only one allowed to use it that way, it does not mean any other people can not use it in another way, remember that after all you are in public property.
That mean you can not forbid anybody else to cross or use it in any other way different than the one you have.
It is against the law to fence Federal Zone or forbid anybody else to cross the Federal Zone, it is not like private property, it is Public property where you are allowed to use it in a certain way only.
So Fence it or forbid anybody to enter it is against Federal law and they will certainly prosecute for it.
I recommend you to just enjoy the Federal zone and forget about that lady and if she break the law, just throw the book at her, but do not allow her to do it at you.

Thanks. You are absolutely correct. We did not fence any part of the concession. A squatter claimed part of it, made unpermitted repairs to a previously condemned structure, and put that white metal fence around it. She claims it is private property and is also claiming ownership of the lot next to it that we created he disabled access on. (Both are in the concession are we hold title to). We only want the concession land to be clean , safe, free and accessible to everyone. That's the whole point. We are careful not to touch the fence she claims is her personal property and we repair the damage she does painting-over the concession and disabled access signs. She has listed the property for sale (yes, our concession). She is a piece of work with no shame.

We are definitely taking the high road. We have been documenting everything, making videos, writing letters. Shortl;y after the video. PROFEPA, SEMARNAT and the PGR all confirmed receipt of our complaint. The PGJE did file charges against Otila Ortiz Maldonao for the violence you saw in the video- we do not know the Judicios outcome. So it's step by step and for us and be patient- and let her continue to make all the mistakes. We think this case is actually moving quite fast for Mexico.

Our next step is to work with the Palacio of Rosarito to make protecting this beach important to them. In a nice way we want them to know: we have the valid federal title to the area, we intend to enforce the title and protect the beach for their people, and as American Ex-pats would appreciate their not interfering on the squatters' behalf. A squatter/land bandito should not be able to improve and occupy a structure on an ambiental concession, and residential use does not meet the terms of the concession. The person occupying the concession is not the person required to in the title. The title holder pays the annual taxes and fees, no the squatter. The squatter i currently offering this federal concession area for sale. The city should also refrain from offering city services/water/CFE to an illegal structure such as this.

If the city of Rosarito enables people to build on the beach in front of existing oceanfront homes/condos, on beach that is already in a federal concession for protection the homeowners hold title to- it'll be the another black eye for Rosarito real estate. When is oceanfront... oceanfront?

So I hold the course, slow and steady... right?

[Edited on 2-1-2011 by Woooosh]

ramuma53 - 2-1-2011 at 08:37 AM

Mexican justice is a little slow and need pushing, but sooner or latter it will fall like a ton of bricks on her head.
The help needed is that when you make a complain, make it with copy to every authority related to the problem and if needed to the ¨Oficina de atencion a la ciudadania de la Presidencia de la Republica¨ we say, it is not what you say but to who you say it; then every authority you sent copy, ask the authority for an official report and it is very difficult for them to just accept corruption money.
So Complain legally every time she make a mistake and do it again and again with copy to everybody and soon it will form a paper wave that will wash her away.
Also do not make mistakes yourself, just trust the legal system and it will work, not easy but will work.

Woooosh - 2-1-2011 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Mexican justice is a little slow and need pushing, but sooner or latter it will fall like a ton of bricks on her head.
The help needed is that when you make a complain, make it with copy to every authority related to the problem and if needed to the ¨Oficina de atencion a la ciudadania de la Presidencia de la Republica¨ we say, it is not what you say but to who you say it; then every authority you sent copy, ask the authority for an official report and it is very difficult for them to just accept corruption money.
So Complain legally every time she make a mistake and do it again and again with copy to everybody and soon it will form a paper wave that will wash her away.
Also do not make mistakes yourself, just trust the legal system and it will work, not easy but will work.


We will continue to follow your sage advice. Thanks

Woooosh - 2-2-2011 at 10:58 AM

Yesterday we visited the FRAO office in Rosarito to begin phase two of our efforts to clear the section of the beach we hold title to of a pesky squatter. The FRAO office is just inside the the atrium, but is only open mornings. We sent an e-mail in advance of our visit so they were up-to-speed on our situation. Senor Camacho of FRAO made a quick call to the correct person in the new Robles administration and then personally walked us over to introduce us to him. The person we met with is the "Recaudacion Zona Federal" for Rosarito. It's time to pay our 9680 pesos for it (880m/2 times 11 pesos per meter) and we let them know we aren't thrilled paying this much for land every year for public land we hold title to, but can't access. After taking it all in- he said we had come to exactly the right person (him) to help us get the squatter off. He said he would send a demand letter to the squatter to get off the concession and to stop her efforts to sell it. He asked for our e-mail and said he would copy us on the letter which would go out this week. A volunteer at FRAO took me aside and asked why I didn't make this an ex-pat land issue to get more attention and we told him for now we wanted to keep this Mexican to Mexican and not embarrass anyone. We would prefer to partner with Rosarito to protect the beach for their people- not fight them. They liked that answer. So for now anyway, are encouraged and we'll see how the new administration does this.

wessongroup - 2-2-2011 at 11:20 AM

Sounds good Woooosh... this will be interesting to follow...

Like your move on working through the situation .... using the Agency and leaving off the lawyers... sometimes a conversation, moves along with Agency much better without the aid of an attorney present and directly involved... IMHO

ramuma53 - 2-2-2011 at 08:25 PM

Wooosh
I likeyour way of action, but, please make a letter to the person who told you that, saying in wrhting what he promised you and thanking him for doing it, please send copy to the Semarnap Secretary and to the Mexico´s president
If he does what he promise, he will be a hero, if he doesent he will be in a hot spot

ramuma53 - 2-2-2011 at 08:29 PM

Please send your letter to Juan Rafael Elvira Quesada
Secretario de SEMARNAP, and to the same person who told you that, take that letter and make two copies, take it to SEMARNAP and ask them to sign the copy for both authorities, the guy who told you that and the Secretary copy

ramuma53 - 2-2-2011 at 08:32 PM

I forgot the president, but include him also, If they do not want to receive the letter, just go to the mail office and mail it to them

ramuma53 - 2-2-2011 at 08:40 PM

What he should do and can do for you
He can make the promised letter, ask the marines commander to deliver it and if the marines find somebody as a squater, they can just take him to federal custody untill he prove he has a legal right, if he do not do this, he will be just giving you the Mary go arround
Authority has to do what the law order them to do, no other way

BajaGringo - 2-2-2011 at 08:42 PM

Woooosh gets my vote for BajaNomad with the patience of Job...

Woooosh - 2-2-2011 at 10:33 PM

You are right, you need to pat them on the back first so you push them into action. Everyone is a trophy kid down here. I sent him an e-mail thank-you right away, but I need to put it on paper and get it to the right people with the official Mexican stamp. Trust but verify.

The head of the Rosarito Tourist Police stopped by our house to say hello today. He said he was stationed over in Primo Talapia the past few months, but is now back. He had two guards and a driver with him. I told him his ears must have been burning became just yesterday we were saying nice things about him at the FRAO office. (He gave us his Nextel walkie-talkie number last year to call him direct if we ever need help and that was appreciated). He was very happy we still supported him and shook my hand once again. He did ask about the squatter and I told him we expect a letter from the city next week telling her to go away and stop trying to sell the land.

I'd offer to donate the squatter house to the Marinas to aid in their panga smuggling observation and intervention program but I'm really looking forward to donating the contents to charity and tearing it down. The house is keeping us from addressing the erosion that is taking sand away.

I don't know about being patient BGringo. I'm an old rat in a big maze- it will take me a while, but I'll get to that cheese... eventually.


[Edited on 2-3-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 2-3-2011 at 12:30 AM

ramuma53, I'm taking notes.... thank you

Hell, BG I'll vote for him.... :):)

[Edited on 2-3-2011 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 2-3-2011 by wessongroup]

ramuma53 - 2-3-2011 at 11:19 AM

Now back to our Rosarito Story
The Rosarito history is very important, because, as I just demonstrated, the old titles were all issued against the then prevailing law, mainly the 1863 Benito Juarez law.
Then that mean, that all the land on the Tijuana to Ensenada coastal strip has never came out in a legal way, from the National Land dominium and up to this day, nobody has ever been able to provide legal proof that those titles were legal and as a consequence, those titles should not be used as precedent for any property but sadly most of the developers are trying to do just that.
The only legal titles today, are the ones based on National Land titles and as we know, there are very few of those, mainly in the El Morro area, issued in 1951.
A lot of pressure has been put on authorities to validate those titles, they have used a lot of pseudo arguments, up to the moral owners concept but as you see, no legal argument has ever been sustained in court that allow anybody to use one of those titles as property precedent.
There is also an argument frequently used, based on legal history ignorance, mainly used by new attorneys: that those titles are valid as long as a Federal Judge have not issued a ruling specify ruling every specific title void.
That argument is based on the modern concept of declaring a legal act void where Inexistence is not a legal fact, there are absolute voidance or relative voidance and both require a judge ruling to be effective, but that is true only on modern legal acts (1917 to date), you have to apply the law existing at the time of the legal act execution and that mean, you have to apply to that 1879 title, the law being applied at that time and at that time, Inexistence was a legal concept meaning that the legal act affected by Inexistence, has never started to exist, that concept changed in 1917, but at that time, the titles were already affected by Inexistence and never started to exist acodrding to the 27 article of the 1863 law, so, it is impossible to argue that they exist or caused any legal act, giving ground to any property right.
Then at this point I assume everybody has grounds to know that all those old 1879 titles, were no good for any legal act or give base to any legal property right.
These are not concepts I just invented, those are concepts issued by the Reforma Agraria office to all public officials, I gave public lectures to all the public notaries and real estate agents in Tijuana and nobody can argue of not knowing those legal facts, all of them have already being tested in Federal courts and have never been discredited.

Woooosh - 2-22-2011 at 08:26 PM

A quick update on the great help and advice I have gotten from ramuna53. His legal expert on the Baja federal zone met with us over coffee last Friday and he agreed to take our case. I think ramuna53 may have twisted his arm a bit. lol The expert, Eng. Chavira is very nice. Beyond very nice. He did his preliminary investigation over the weekend and came back to our house today to do some more detailed survey work and give us the update.

He has much more digging to do- but the process is interesting. The squatter is trying to get a judge to give her the land title based on her being the occupant for many years. But what title? We already have the 2008 federal title (for 12 more years) in place, re-verified in writing by SEMARNAT in 9/2010. There are some legal twists and turns regarding the more recent actions of the fracciamiento- and that what he is focused on. (We thought the guy was long since dead). I asked Eng. Chavira if he would be able to fix all this so we can clear the land for the boardwalk and he said "Yes, this is what I do." We are energized. Thanks Rafael.


I "met" Eng. Chavira last year when he was doing a survey project along the beach. Most nomads know I am passionate about preserving the beach for the people and no one with a survey stick gets past me without a take-home kit including our fracciamiento map and a souvenir "Que es Playas de Rosarito, sin la Playa?" DVD. When I gave Eng Chavira the map last year I talked a little to him and gave him the original survey map of the area he was working on. Engineers/surveyors always like old maps (this one is 1975) to check them against their GPS survey toys. I gave him my spiel that the beach should be clean, safe, accessible and free for the people. His eyes lit up when I said free and he smiled and shook my hand.
The next time I saw him was in the coffee shop Friday and we hit it off again right away. A very small world.

Lobsterman - 2-23-2011 at 05:10 AM

I see light at the end of the tunnel.

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-23-2011 at 05:45 AM

Rafael,

You are a great asset to Baja Nomad as I knew you would be. Thank you for giving people the knowledge they need in understand the complexities of land ownership in Mexico.

David

ramuma53 - 3-2-2011 at 10:47 AM

Knowledge is not useful if it is hidden, the only way we can avoid making the same mistakes again and again, is by knowing the place´s history and how we solved those same problems in the past.
I am very confident that with Engineer Chavira knowledge, the beach problem will be solved soon and fairly, I know he has several high cards up his sleeve, just in case.
I sent the investigation we did on San Felipe to the guys with the problem there, but that is just a case where the authorities are the ones to blame, together with the developers, who build without the needed permits.
In San Felipe the problem is a conflict between the environmental authorities who want to preserve that area development free and the crooked Estate authorities who allow the development and then are unable to grant the development permits while the developers being over confident on their influence on the crooked Estate officials, develop the land and then are unable to give the buyers their clear title.
All this is a clear criminal case named ¨Fraude Equiparado¨ committed by the developers against the buyers; a crime that the Estate District attorney must prosecute, but a crime they do not want to prosecute. There is the problem.
Advise.- Hit the Estate District attorney with everything you can, until he solve the problem via prosecuting the developers or obtaining the legal permits and granting the clear titles.

ramuma53 - 3-2-2011 at 11:03 AM

Elinvestig8r
Thank you for your comments.

Buying property in Baja is something that American people need and will do more and more in the near future.
I believe that they can do it safely if they are armed with the right knowledge that allow them to avoid becoming the usual victim to public officials and crooked developers and I agree at this point, it is almost a sport to do that in Baja.

Just remember that when something is difficult, the ones armed with the knowledge to do it, have an advantage.
That is the case on Baja, if you know what you are doing, you can buy property safely and without future problems and when most of the buyers become smart buyers, the crooks will have to become honest people or go out of business.

[Edited on 3-2-2011 by ramuma53]

Woooosh - 3-2-2011 at 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Elinvestig8r
Thank you for your comments.

Buying property in Baja is something that American people need and will do more and more in the near future.
I believe that they can do it safely if they are armed with the right knowledge that allow them to avoid becoming the usual victim to public officials and crooked developers and I agree at this point, it is almost a sport to do that in Baja.

Just remember that when something is difficult, the ones armed with the knowledge to do it, have an advantage.
That is the case on Baja, if you know what you are doing, you can buy property safely and without future problems and when most of the buyers become smart buyers, the crooks will have to become honest people or go out of business.

[Edited on 3-2-2011 by ramuma53]


Yes! And when everyone can buy property "safely" and smartly- everyone benefits. Mexico needs expats and investors to buy and develop land, to become Baja residents and then contribute to the economy and society. The real estate crooks are no better than narcos- both only want easy money regardless of the negative impact and image they present. "Clean and transparent" is the future of Mexico. It is good for buyers, good for Mexico and good for the Mexican people. We're ready any time Mexico is. ;) I do hope there is away for good people like Raphael to benefit in the long run from doing business correctly and honestly. If you had to pick a legal expert today- who else would you choose?

ramuma53 - 3-2-2011 at 10:34 PM

Wooosh
My benefit is a second hand benefit, I have land in Baja and most of it, is undeveloped because there are no investors around, to develop them and that is happening, because of the bad developers who want to save pennies, while charging prices like USD$3500 dlls/m2 built, to retiring Americans. I do not mind to do a good business, but you need to respect the customer, if you are planning to stay in business for a long time and I just saw most of Baja commit economical suicide, just because they do not respect the customer; they thought, that they will just keep selling to those prices while not giving the basic security, needed by the customer on their golden years retirement homes, a clear title and a safe street.
The government did not act like government, they acted like businessman, who are at the same time bad developers, they tried to hide the legal facts on a matter, that has no time limitation and that took us, only to perpetuate a problem that need to be corrected, at the same time, they just allowed their pockets, to be filled with drug money, expecting that the drug dealers would just keep to their business, ignoring the fact, that when you take money from them, they own you forever and if you are obligated to give them impunity, they want impunity for every kind of crime and if they have impunity for every crime, they will just keep criminal acts against anybody in their area, tourist and local people alike, killing every kind of business.
Either Mexico become a safe place for business or we will turn in to a criminal State and now we are at the turning point, to make the decision, we went as far to the dark side, as we were able, a little more and we will not be able to return, without very bad consequences for everybody, the customers and the sellers.
Mexico need to turn around and expect only a fair return in our investment, while giving the American people, who are the Bajas development´s natural customers, a good product, even better than in the Estates, because we have more profit, being the land a lot cheaper than in USA while the end prices are very similar.
Business is bad in Baja, because of bad choices made by the government and developers together alike, we need to start by correcting the land property debacle in the Tijuana Ensenada strip and from there the whole South and North Bajas.
I do not work for anybody´s money, but I have time to help others for free to avoid costly mistakes and direct you to good technical people, who do not sell themselves to the one who pay better, they know we need to allow justice to prevail to make the good times return.

Woooosh - 3-2-2011 at 10:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Wooosh
My benefit is a second hand benefit, I have land in Baja and most of it, is undeveloped because there are no investors around, to develop them and that is happening, because of the bad developers who want to save pennies, while charging prices like USD$3500 dlls/m2 built, to retiring Americans. I do not mind to do a good business, but you need to respect the customer, if you are planning to stay in business for a long time and I just saw most of Baja commit economical suicide, just because they do not respect the customer; they thought, that they will just keep selling to those prices while not giving the basic security, needed by the customer on their golden years retirement homes, a clear title and a safe street.
The government did not act like government, they acted like businessman, who are at the same time bad developers, they tried to hide the legal facts on a matter, that has no time limitation and that took us, only to perpetuate a problem that need to be corrected, at the same time, they just allowed their pockets, to be filled with drug money, expecting that the drug dealers would just keep to their business, ignoring the fact, that when you take money from them, they own you forever and if you are obligated to give them impunity, they want impunity for every kind of crime and if they have impunity for every crime, they will just keep criminal acts against anybody in their area, tourist and local people alike, killing every kind of business.
Either Mexico become a safe place for business or we will turn in to a criminal State and now we are at the turning point, to make the decision, we went as far to the dark side, as we were able, a little more and we will not be able to return, without very bad consequences for everybody, the customers and the sellers.
Mexico need to turn around and expect only a fair return in our investment, while giving the American people, who are the Bajas development´s natural customers, a good product, even better than in the Estates, because we have more profit, being the land a lot cheaper than in USA while the end prices are very similar.
Business is bad in Baja, because of bad choices made by the government and developers together alike, we need to start by correcting the land property debacle in the Tijuana Ensenada strip and from there the whole South and North Bajas.
I do not work for anybody´s money, but I have time to help others for free to avoid costly mistakes and direct you to good technical people, who do not sell themselves to the one who pay better, they know we need to allow justice to prevail to make the good times return.

exactly right. Mexico (and Baja in particular) is geographically desirable to Americans. There is an oversupply of housing projects built for Americans in my area (Rosarito) because prices are just now starting to come down as much as the US housing prices have the past 5 years. I see the eco-friendly Greenhaus development in Rosarito is now advertising town-homes for $99K (down from $149K) for example. The downside of that is no one wants to be the last person to pay $149K or the new $99K price if they may go down to $79K. I do see some unlikely-to-be-successful condo projects moving forward (NAOS for example). Do you think the cartels are putting their cash into these developments because their investment options are limited (and favors are owed to them- "impunity" as you say)? Will the proposed "property forfeiture" laws of President Calderon level the playing field? for those using narco-dollars to build? Building additional housing supply without the demand for them further hurts values?

ramuma53 - 3-9-2011 at 10:34 AM

Woooosh
Rosarito at any price is too expensive, because you will have future problems, because all the coastal strip is National Land and most of the developments are being built in National Land without property rights, based on old titles that under any light are Void and uanble to sustain legal

lookingandbuying - 3-9-2011 at 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Woooosh
Rosarito at any price is too expensive, because you will have future problems, because all the coastal strip is National Land and most of the developments are being built in National Land without property rights, based on old titles that under any light are Void and uanble to sustain legal


Hi Ramuma53,

Been reading all of your great information. On another thread there was a question about buying a place at Club Marena condo development in Rosarito corridor. The comment you said above that all developments along the coastal strip are on National Land and "most" of the developments are being built on National land raises a question for me.

Is it your belief that EVERYTHING along the costal strip has problems? Is it also your belief that ALL houses and condo's in this area are subject to the National Land problems you have made us aware of? In your opinion is there any safe way to purchase property in the areas between Rosarito and say Ensenada??

From my readings of your posts it makes me belive that this is the case, there is not anything in this area that is safe. Scary!! I really started to become concerned when a few years ago it was discovered that not even the Rosarito Beach Hotel and Torres had clear title on the property, after being there since 1923, or so.

So basically, my question: is there anyway possible to buy a place along this strip and feel confident? From my understanding of your posts ALL of it is National Land so EVERYONE that thinks they actually own something in these areas is fooling themselves. If this is the case it is a very unfortunate situation for MANY people. And, it does not appear that a normal peson would be able to overcome this "National Land" problem if they wanted to buy a place.

gnukid - 3-9-2011 at 02:10 PM

With respect to Raphael, there is a bit of a problem with the idea that nothing is safe on the region.

There are higher laws that prevail, in Mexico and in many countries, possession, time of possession, history of paying taxes and guarding the property boundary are recognized regardless of title issues. Same goes in the USA and most countries. You pay the tax, you stay there, you guard the property limit, you own it, irregardless of who abandoned it.

Furthermore, there is natural law which Raphael may not acknowledge yet does have precedence. People have the inherent right to live on the land that they are on, a rogue faction, government or foreign power may not supercede the individual's sovereign rights. The only way you can lose your sovereign rights, is if someone convinces you to give it up and walk away.

One may also look at the history of Mexico, people have a much stronger relationship with land and their rights than in other regions like the USA where very few people "own' their land. This is being demonstrated today as banks are foreclosing on property yet no one can find or produce the title due to derivative financing. Mexico is likely among the most strong of any country in recognizing possession.

So, that said, a lawyer, even a good lawyer, can argue otherwise but the idea that everyone will lose their land that they possess, protect, pay taxes on, it's unlikely and only could be associated with a corrupt view of property rights.

ramuma53 - 3-10-2011 at 08:19 PM

Gnukifd
You must know that National land property is not subjected to status of limitations, and that mean that time does not create a right like in private property, you cannot acquire it by possession time or any other mean that is not a national land title, just read the 27 Constitutional article, all lands inside Mexico´s borders is originally national land and you can take it out from that status only by acquiring it from the National land officer and absolutely no other authority can sell or give away national land and that include any local judge, because I know you are referring to a ´Prerscripcion´, absolutely National land cannot be subjected or acquired it through prescription positiva or negativa.
That is the problem core in Rosarito and every authority knows it including Hugo Torres.
Concerning higher laws, the constitution is the highest law.
Just check article 27 from the 1863 National land law, paying taxes does not give you any right.
National land is not abandoned ever, it is the origin of property, it has to come out of National land dominium to be private property and if it isn´t out, there is only one way to take it out, a National Land title issued by the right authority.
Here we are not talking about natural law, we are talking about Mexico´s law, because the land is in Mexico and in this world, maybe in heaven you will be right, but you have to wait until you exist there and then we may talk about that.
Sorry but your religious legal rights will not save anybody in this world


[Edited on 3-12-2011 by ramuma53]
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