BajaNomad

Baja Real Estate advise

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ramuma53 - 3-20-2011 at 12:29 PM

lookingandbuying
Thank you for your complements over U2U and believe me, there are very few, because most people think it is better to bury a problem than to make it surface, but to hide a problem, just to induce people in to a mistake, in this case clearly the American buyer, is a bigger mistake and something unethical.
Also I consider this an economic suicide, because I do not think any kind of business can survive for long, if you cheat your customer; people who have been doing this, don´t think about the future; the same a the Ensenada merchants, thought that they will have a town full of tourists, even if they stole en extort money from them, every opportunity they had; they were wrong and now they know it, Tijuana and Rosarito thought the same when they were full of people and didn’t heard the Ensenada precedent.

Sorry but it is time to respect the customer, I think that the best time is now, because the developments are empty and with no customers, now is the time to hurt as few people as possible while cleaning the house; in a couple of years, people will regain confidence and will start to buy again and that is what they want, to keep it quiet until then.

Currently I am not in Baja, I am in Mexico city, talking with the Estate department and convincing them about this issue and it looks like they are listening, but you never know, money interests are very strong in favor of just let them steal a little more and then they will become honest people; I know that statement never work, people cannot steal enough once you allow them to do it, PAN political party is the biggest example I have seen on this.

I published all this information on my newspaper from 1996 to 2005, but I made a mistake, it was in Spanish and my newspaper was directed mostly to Mexicans and the people who needed the information was the American customer, they never got the information, while al the developers got it and did the worst thing to do, tried to hide it any way possible, not any way legal.

The turtle issue, is very simple, the restaurant owner next to my hotel, went to the dark side, because it is a lot more profitable now in Mulege to sell drugs to the tourist, than to sell then hamburgers, then they started to unload big drug shipments, but made the mistake of doing it, crossing my property and that motivated me to complain to the local authorities, getting as a result, that all the local authorities, tried to shut me up, to protect their side business, they were unable to buy me in and then, I went up the authority ladder, all the way to the Mexico´s president before I got any results and finally it worked, but even the president have problems with the crooked federal police and they sent the elite marines and Mexican FBI´s intelligence teams and we got her, but not on the drug charges, they were only able to catch her, selling turtle soup, because they caught her with a multi corporation raid, and are being prosecuted.

I will do the same again every time, I will not condone the sea turtle killings or to sell them as soup by crooks, much less the selling of drugs; yes it has created a lot of problems for me, I have gained a lot of bad enemies, but that is not new for me, I have never ran from problems, in my opinion, problems are to be solved at once, not hided so they explode in other people face.

Concerning the coastal strip from Km. 32 (Calafia) to 65 (Arroyo La Mision) I will write in the forum the specific story that surfaced at the Copladen (Tijuana city hall public forum concerning public problems, always with the presence of all the city authorities) and it is one of the most safe in some areas and at the same time unsafe because most of it is not. The only safe areas are El Morro with National Land titles issued in 1951 and completely safe to buy in any way and the ´Venustiano Carranza´ because they got their title in 1992, but they lost it to an Amparo and is going to be re issued in a couple of months; there is a land development there named La Puerta del Mar, that is completely illegitimate and will have problems with the new title in a couple of months, the problems will start exploding exactly there and from there, will go north all the way to Tijuana.
The development called Medio Camino and Puerta del Mar will be the first ones to go down because of the re expedition of the Venustiano Carranza´s National Title, being issued at this very minute.
Banamex issued a fideicomiso on some of those houses and is trying to cut a deal that will allow them to pay for the land, without media noise and it is possible that it will happen, because it is only 2 Has. But Puerta del Mar is a 12 Has. Development over the Venustiano Carranza title, that will not have a deal and all the people who has bought there, will have to pay again to the real owner Rosendo Victorio Victorio or go out as in Punta Banda.

Concerning the issue that these problems would be like the Punta Banda problem, actually it is exactly the same problem, with other players, that will have the problem resolved on the same side, because Punta Banda, is now a legal Supreme Court precedent, the National Land strip that affected Punta Banda, start in Arroyo El Rosarito, just south of Hotel Rosarito and north of Rene´s and from there, all the way to Punta Banda, in other words, the developers can run but they can no longer hide.

Sorry but Las Gaviotas and Las Ventanas have the same problem and I am sorry because the owners, perfectly know and were advised in 1992 about the problem and chose at that time to not do anything; but at Las Gaviotas, you do not have a second owner, like Las Olas or Puerta del Mar, there, the owner will have to legalize with as little noise as possible only and if you think, Las Gaviotas would be one of the lesser problems, because it may not reflect on the buyer, only to the very old and reliable developer.

The problem would be with the developers that hide their hand behind several offshore corporations, like Los Gatos that are, the Torres Chavert developments or La Puerta del Mar that belong to the Lagos´s developments, that have a very long and bad reputation of buying problematic land and just dump it on the buyer.

I also wish we can meet face to face any place, so when you come near Tijuana, Mulege, Los Cabos, La Paz or Mexico city, tell me because I travel very often to those places and I have some very good tequila that you may want to test.

ramuma53 - 3-20-2011 at 12:42 PM

Woooosh and Krafty
The Thrump Towers problem, was not a Thrump problem, only the first example of the American customer running when he know about the problems over the title.

When the Thrump tower project was publicly known in Tijuana, several people knowing it is over National Land, tried to buy it from the government, with the intention to extort money from the Thrump Tower project, but they tried it too soon and Thrump ran, leaving only the Mexican partner, that tried it anyway and got discredited.

For you knowledge, Baja is now listed, as an unsafe place for External money investments all over the world.

With Mexican investors, the problem is security and every investor is trying to run from Baja, just be careful that they don´t let you hanging from the brush.

In the near future, the developments that start to fix the problem, will start to publicize the fact that they have fixed the National Lad problem and have a National Land title as title precedent, I just hope they understand it as soon as possible.

krafty - 3-20-2011 at 12:56 PM

I do believe the Trump investor was German; still does not answer why these poor folks did not get their deposits back. Trump put his name behind this and sold out in days because of his promises, and is not being held accountable for any of it-that stinks.

and bird flue too

wessongroup - 3-20-2011 at 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Why would these investors, such as in the Trump debacle, throw their money at something that is not even there? duh:?:


crikey!... ya, mean you don't remember all those numbers from the Fed, Banks, Industry.... et al.. on how "great" the economy was doing... hell, how long did it take them to get to the "R" word.. still won't use the "D" word... with 30 million out of work and with at least that many without Medical coverage...

Now all we need .... is an announcement from the CDC that we have caught up with China and now our Major infectious diseases include:


Major infectious diseases: degree of risk: intermediate
food or waterborne diseases: bacterial diarrhea, hepatitis A, and typhoid fever

Vectorborne diseases: Japanese encephalitis and dengue fever

Soil contact disease: hantaviral hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome (HFRS)

Animal contact disease: rabies

note: highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza has been identified in this country; it poses a negligible risk with extremely rare cases possible among US citizens who have close contact with birds (2009)

ramuma53 - 3-20-2011 at 01:41 PM

GLNaeve
The Mulege area has other kind of problems, mainly Ejido problems.
You can see in Mulege that there are several old and closed hotels while the Mr. Johnson’s Hotel Serenidad, has been battling the Ejido in court, for several years and that is because the Ejidos all over Baja are based on virtual executions that allow them to move their borders all over the place and Agrarian Courts are only a tool to steal all land possible.
Here we have another basic problem: Mexico created the ejidos in the 1935-1975 era, in another words the populism era, when PRI was only interested in staying in power by buying votes, as many votes as possible and peasants were exactly that, many and very ignorant.
But that populism has blew on Mexico´s face over and over, especially in Baja where agriculture is very difficult or impossible.
Baja Ejidatarios used to be very poor and ignorant people, but over the years, they have become a new very crooked class, educated in schools and over every kind of trick to steal; they used to do it to the official banks that every year lent them money just to condone the loan and charging that to the tax payer, but that money dried up and the official bank went bankrupt as expected, but they were experts in manipulating the government in to giving them free money without working.
Let me tell you horror story I know about the Ejido Mazatlan (They are the Mulege teachers and many belong to both ejidos): They asked for a big loan for agricultural machinery for the Rosarito area that you know is not good for agriculture, they got it and as soon as they got the machinery, they started to sell every bit as scrap metal or spare parts and then said the machinery was destroyed by the weather and they got away with it.
This was going on all over Mexico and Mazatlan Ejidtarios were masters at it, this started to blow up because it was a river of money going out of Mexico, because as you must know, most of the Ejido´s Mazatlan ejidatarios were USA citizens, with bank accounts in San Diego CA. (Gabriel Esquivel, father of Rosarito´s councilmen Enrique Esquivel fought in the Corean war as an American citizen, Enrique Esquivel is American also), one of the ejidatarios, won a national price for high production but then he asked for the loan to be void because weather damages to the crop and promptly got paid by the bank; of course this hit the National press and the guy went to jail.
This so you understand how crooked the ejidatarios have become under the excessive protection of the Mexican government and the Rosarito Beach´s Ejido Mazatlan teachings.
They have claimed every hotel that get successful in the Mulege area and they also tried with mine, but since I have a legal title, they just dropped the case, but most of the hotels in Mulege, included the Serenidad Hotel are right over Ejido Land and made contracts with Ejidos do they have no way of winning.
I know that the Ejidos are now supposed to be able to sell their land and their titles say full ownership but you have to understand that that does not mean that it is private property as those hotels have found out the bad way.
Ejido titles are ejido titles that allow you to become ejido member with all the ejido member obligations by law and some of them are being Mexican by birth, live in the Ejido town and work the land; if you do not obey by those rules, they may just get together and expurgate you and that mean you lost your ejido rights and land with no money returned.
When you pay to the ejido, they give you just money receipts that say that you are a good citizen and want to give away money to the poor peasant or anything they like, because the law think they are almost children and condone everything they say because they are ignorant people but the reality is that they are very good crooks that know the system.
Agrarian courts are a joke; they are among the most crooked of the Mexican institutions and do everything to separate you from your money.
In that aspect, yes, we need to close down Agrarian courts and finish with a law parts, named ¨suplir la deficiencia de la queja´ because that mean, that in any court not only agrarian court, the judge become their attorney, and obligate the judge to offer any legal proof that the ejido need to prove their case while if you lose anything you are gone and if the judge does not do exactly that or miss anything the trial start over until all possible proof is offered in their benefit but not in yours. This has made the Ejidatarios a protected class that is allowed to steal as much as they want with no penalities.
My counsel, never buy anything from the ejidos even if it is through a supposedly reputable developer.
Going back to Rosarito area as an example, Las Olas I and II are built over a Ejido Mazatlan parcel and also over Playa Encantada National title and the National title is winning and Olas altas will have very big problems in the near future.

ramuma53 - 3-20-2011 at 01:51 PM

krafty
Trump had many foreign investors behind him and all of them ran after they knew about the land problems and got a few proposals to extort money from them, leaving behind only the Mexican front, without any money.

Of course, that is the problem with developing land, having several offshore companies as front; they effectively protect themselves but not the buyer and that is the issue.

Also they were oofering title insurance as an actual reality, but I have never seen any f the title insurance companies pay the buyer back.
More effective would be to stablish a bank trust holding the money until the developer prove and deliver everything promised, just like when you buy something in the USA.
The legal and bank tools are there, but nobody use them and the government do not require them and that si the problem.

The customer too confident, the authorities too crooked and the developers too ambitious.

krafty - 3-20-2011 at 04:17 PM

Customer was confident because Trump was behind it and everything he touches supposedly turns to gold. Would you vote for that man? no way

Bajahowodd - 3-20-2011 at 04:24 PM

Never understood it. Trump's father was the mogul who developed the wealth. Donald inherited it and has managed to go bankrupt a number of times. Unlike his dad.

Donald is akin to a carny with money.

BajaGringo - 3-20-2011 at 04:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Donald is akin to a carny with money.


Carny's have better hairdoo's...

Woooosh - 3-22-2011 at 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Donald is akin to a carny with money.


Carny's have better hairdoo's...

Like your avatar?
:lol:

Woooosh - 3-22-2011 at 10:44 AM

The buyers at Trump should shoulder SOME of the responsibility. Didn't any of them look at what they were buying? One look at the sewage treatment ponds lined up on the hills behind it would have been a clear indicator the site was less than the "pristine" location they advertised. Who wants a view of sewage treatment ponds? (Maybe they weren't planning on putting windows on that side?)

BajaGringo - 3-22-2011 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Donald is akin to a carny with money.


Carny's have better hairdoo's...

Like your avatar?
:lol:


The Donald and I share the same barber...

ramuma53 - 3-22-2011 at 05:44 PM

woooosh
Do not mind about the view, do you know that you can not touch the water arround that area, from San Antonio del Mar South to almos Playas de Tijuana, because Tijuana sewer are being dumped almost crude at the sea just north of San Antonio del Mar, almost crude because they seldom put to work the aereators and since now,Tijuana has a big industry, with a lot of Maquladoras, everytning is being dumped on the sewer and come to the sea exactly there, it has been done for 20 years, I wont touch the water there, even in a full high risk Chemical suit.
In San diego if you dump a couple of sewer water gallons on the sea, they close the beach, 1000s of gallons an hour are being dumped in Rosarito and San Antonio del Mar and nobody say anything.
Once when Hugo Torres Chavert acting as Rosarito Major, said publicly that the Rosarito sea water was clean, I published in my newspaper the sewer coming in to the sea, that same day, right Rosarito downtown and a his photo with a very long nose, that was about 1998 and nothing has changed since then.

the donald

mtgoat666 - 3-22-2011 at 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Donald inherited it and has managed to go bankrupt a number of times.


yes, but he always recovers. and he does have a flair for self-promotion, got to give him credit for that!

many RE developers are the same: boom and bust. it's the american dream mated with groundhog day.

funny that if you do that boom/bust cycle with your personal mortgage and mom/pop RE investments, you ruin your credit rating, can't get a loan for next "opportunity." but if you form an LLC or LLP and your RE development fails, banks will eagerly line up to finance your next venture. Ha!

SDRonni - 3-22-2011 at 05:54 PM

So, in your opinion, should all fideicomiso holders of condos in Las Olas I, Las Olas Grand and Mar Y Sol be shaking in their boots?

The Trump's of the world

lookingandbuying - 3-22-2011 at 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Donald inherited it and has managed to go bankrupt a number of times.


yes, but he always recovers. and he does have a flair for self-promotion, got to give him credit for that!

many RE developers are the same: boom and bust. it's the american dream mated with groundhog day.

funny that if you do that boom/bust cycle with your personal mortgage and mom/pop RE investments, you ruin your credit rating, can't get a loan for next "opportunity." but if you form an LLC or LLP and your RE development fails, banks will eagerly line up to finance your next venture. Ha!


Once the bank loans you a lot of money YOU OWN THEM. First, the bank does not want to take the building back as they may have to make a charge against their income which screws up their year-end bonus.

Second, and probably more important is that bank's do not know how to develop properties. It is better to keep the guy around that does even if you have to put him on financial life support. Finishing a half built place is better done by the developer than the bank. Also, at times it is better to have the developer run a completed building as they are better at running the place than the bank would be.

Lastly, large developers generally have most of their properties cross-collateralized with the bank. At times this could mean the bank would have to take back properties that they do not want to. This is especially the case if a property has environmental toxic clean-up issues.

You want a bank to cooperate with you? Get them to loan you a ton of money.

Woooosh - 3-23-2011 at 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
woooosh
Do not mind about the view, do you know that you can not touch the water arround that area, from San Antonio del Mar South to almos Playas de Tijuana, because Tijuana sewer are being dumped almost crude at the sea just north of San Antonio del Mar, almost crude because they seldom put to work the aereators and since now,Tijuana has a big industry, with a lot of Maquladoras, everytning is being dumped on the sewer and come to the sea exactly there, it has been done for 20 years, I wont touch the water there, even in a full high risk Chemical suit.
In San diego if you dump a couple of sewer water gallons on the sea, they close the beach, 1000s of gallons an hour are being dumped in Rosarito and San Antonio del Mar and nobody say anything.
Once when Hugo Torres Chavert acting as Rosarito Major, said publicly that the Rosarito sea water was clean, I published in my newspaper the sewer coming in to the sea, that same day, right Rosarito downtown and a his photo with a very long nose, that was about 1998 and nothing has changed since then.

I think most people knows the water in those holding ponds behind the Trump Baja site is eventually piped down into the ocean. I think people just stopped beating that dead horse. In San Diego the Point Loma treatment plant pipes it out 3 miles or so. Even so there are plenty of sewage spills in San Diego caused by broken pipes and overflows. Sadly neither side can brag about their water quality but both economies depend highly on it.

MitchMan - 3-23-2011 at 11:04 AM

ramuma53
How good is the title that is held when a fideicomiso is involved in a La Paz property?

lookingandbuying - 3-24-2011 at 12:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
People, people, people!!! what are you doing?? you are taking advice from a man who makes a living breaking every law he is talking about here. Forget the shady unrealistic advice. In Baja, there is only one way to protect yourself against a man like ramuma, and here it is:

BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE THERE HASNT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL.

Predators like ramuma would never try to implemente one of his scams in an area where Mexicans have lived for decades, because they would raise hell if someone tried it. The richer the Mexicans in the area, the less likely a scam artists will try to steal your land.

Buying property in the middle of nowhere, is far riskier than buying where people live and have been living for decades. Scam artists, pray on properties where very few people live, specially if the owners of the property is an ejido where land problems are common. An exemption is buying property from wealthy well known Mexicans with political power, because land thieves know they can't mess with them.

Thats it, thats all the advice you truly, really, need to know.


Jesse,

I have spent a lot of time looking at real estate in mostly in the Rosarito corridor and researching issues mostly in this area.

The advice you get from EVERYONE even the so called professionals is ALL over the map and sorting through the various issues is almost impossible, if not ENTIRELY impossible. The lack of good information is a big problem. I have also spent hours looking at comments left on this board regarding real estate and prior to seeing the information left by Rumana53 it too is also all over the map. Lastly, I've looked at any available information available on the Internet.

So maybe I would not dispute your part where you say:

" BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISHED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL."

What I would like to know from you is exactly where are the "ESTABLISHED AREAS" you are talking about in the Rosarito corridor? I would also like to know exactly where the areas are that you say don't have any problems even if they are not located in the Rosarito corridor?

People have been having problems with places they buy almost everywhere I have heard of in the entire country.

Then, Rumana53 comes on this board and speaks to the property issues from Tijuana all the way to Ensenada and says "if you are going to buy a property in this area the FIRST thing you should do is go check the land file and ensure the first paper in the file is a transfer out of the National Lands." He has said no more, no less. He has provided the history for the area and also cited the court rulings to support this fact he claims about the National Land title problems that people will have if they buy a property that does not have the proper title transfer. This really seems like GREAT advice!! It is also a very simple thing to do in order to protect yourself when buying.

Why is it that there is such a problem with Rumana53's advice? I did read the entire Turtle thread in my efforts to discover why there is such hatred by some on this board against this guy. Unfortunately, I was unable to read any of your comments because you deleted all of them.

If the fact is that Rumana53 has used his better information to obtain lands from idiots that did not properly research the laws and he ended up having a superior lien on the land because of their foolishness when they were grabbing the land and letting their money fly on deals that were to good to be true in the first place then so be it. What about Punta Banda? Had these people checked they could have discovered and avoided the problems they had in losing their expensive homes.

So, what I would really like to know is what specific laws has Rumana 53 broken. He has not proposed here that anyone break any laws. He has merely advised people how to protect themselves when trying to buy a home. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

Property and land title issues are a problem all over Baja, more so in Baja Norte. While I think your suggestion to buy in a well established area that has not experienced problems (whether rich or poor) is a good one it does not solve the problem of all the land title problems in the area. And, until it does people are going to be reluctant to invest their hard earned money in the area.

I do know that Rumana53 had a problem with his neighbor the hamburger/Turtle stew lady and some on this board disagree with the method he used to get rid of her (is she still around?). The National Land title issue is an important and relevant one to anyone looking to buy a home in Baja, period. What really surprises me is that many people do not take this issue seriously and this is a big mistake. I really could not believe how people missed this entire issue in the Turtle thread and were more interested in bickering.

Sometimes you can disregard the messenger, but not the message. People deal in business all the time and the one with superior information wins, everytime.

Lastly, in many of Rumana53's posts he states his intention is to help the buyer which in the long term will help the local economy...you would think this is a good thing?

So, if you have a moment please share what exact laws Rumana53 has broken and if you have information that disputes his information about the National Land title defect issue please share it here.

Thank-you

mtgoat666 - 3-24-2011 at 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE

Ramuma


jesse:
people that ignore opinions about ramsanus53 and listen to his advice deserve what they get.

Lobsterman - 3-24-2011 at 06:35 AM

Spot on lookingandbuying!

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Lobsterman]

ramuma53 - 3-24-2011 at 10:11 AM

Jesse the clown liar
As always, you just spill lies that you are unable to support and ignore direct questions like the ones lookingandbuying is making to you, why don´t you answer them???

Also, your advice is completely wrong and I will tell you why:

You advice to ´disregard all the information about a place and buy where wealthy Mexicans do it´ is completely wrong and I will make just one example.

In Ensenada, the extremely wealthy Baja Governor´s cousin, allied himself with the local ejido and took land from some unknown and not at all wealthy, private National Land owners, he was and is actually very wealthy, since he owns the shopping malls in Rosarito Beach too and he tought exactly the way you do; he put his big reputation behind the Punta Banda development and convinced several Americans to build big expensive houses there.

Those Americans were not that closed minded, they asked for advice to the American Consulate in Tijuana, who consulted me, I told them that they were over National Land and that the private property owners would at the end win in court; also they consulted the Baja Governor Ernesto Ruffo Appel, the developer´s cousin and he told them, that there would be no problem there, that he would see that the land problems, never reach the American buyers and the American consulate disregarded my advice.

Of course the Baja Governor made a big effort and talked to the SRA Secretary and they together slowed the legal process and fought the private property owners in court all the way to the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court ordered the SRA Secretary, to put the private owners in physical possession and gave him 15 days to comply with the court order or leave his job.

The last day, at 11 PM, the SRA Secretary, put the private property owners based on National Land title in definitive possession and the American buyers from a wealthy influential Mexican, lost their houses and I think I made my point here.

It is true, influential people in Mexico and in any place in the world, included the USA can go away with a lot of things against poor ignorant people, most of the time, but if the people who are being taken advantage from, are not so poor or are very well informed, the influential people burn themselves; because they use public officials who put their job on the line for them and if they cause the public officials to have a big public problem and in some cases lose their job, the influential people no longer has influence and the public officials prefer to have their jobs, than to commit political suicide in an influential people benefit, even if they already received money for it; in that case, they just stop taking the influential people´s telephone calls and if he try to see them in person, they are just in a very important meeting.

Another example happened near Tijuana, where some of the wealthiest guys in Tijuana and also the biggest landowners, tried to take the land from the then 5th Army battalion installations, they supposedly had a lot of political power and the Baja governor was behind them; they took the army to court, with some of the most expensive and influential law firms against them. The Army consulted me and we told them, that that land was also National Land, because it was out of the Tijuana Ranch, they went to court with the information and you can see, that the Army is still there and not only that, they took all the land from the supposed owners around there and grew the installations, while the land supposed land owners were not able to locate the then Baja Governor for more help.

Wealthy Mexicans are not exempt from land problems, they are part of the problem, because they know the problem for a long time, but they profit from it and I am not at all, defending them here, I am defending the buyer, who have a right to know that they are buying land problems and more when they are guests on this country, but also if they are Mexicans.

We all can notice that you as the developers advocate, want to desvirtuate this information, but you have to do a better job, or they will certainly not pay you, also if you are going to attack me, you have to provide exact information or proof, that is part of your job, any other way, the only one who will get another liar brand, will be you again.

Woooosh - 3-24-2011 at 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lobsterman
Spot on lookingandbuying!

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Lobsterman]

SECONDED!

ramuma53 - 3-24-2011 at 10:49 AM

SDRonni
´So, in your opinion, should all fideicomiso holders of condos in Las Olas I, Las Olas Grand and Mar Y Sol be shaking in their boots?´
Yes, before those developments existed in 1992 to 1994, the land was sol to Tomas Corona Rodriguez and then he gave the right to Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño who finished the National Land Procedure and is in the brink of getting her National Land title and when that happen, she will come with the Federales and take the land back from those developments, exactly like in Punta Banda.
Those developments belong to the Hugo Torres Chavert group with one of his cousins as front and he know for a long time the National Land procedure, because he bought the National Land owner attorney Fernando Gomez Chavez to lose the legal case, he gave him a condo in one of his towers where he lives to this day, but the National Land procedure is not subjected to time limitations of legal maneuvers and has continued in the SRA where it is being finished at this time.
A lot of people on those developments knew about the problem and asked for their money back but some remained and new buyers were convinced by the Torres group publicity and those people are going to have to live through another Punta Banda and of course they will again cry that they are being taken advantage from and blame Mexico.

lookingandbuying - 3-24-2011 at 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE

jesse:
people that ignore opinions about ramsanus53 and listen to his advice deserve what they get.


Goat,

I tell you what...I for one would rather fully understand the issues about buying property and trying to do so in a safe manner to avoid future problems.

Please tell me, exactly what is going to be the problem that people are going to have if they "don't ignore the opinions about Rumana53?" What bad thing is going to befall us if we adhere to Rumana53's advice about FIRST checking the National Land title issue if we are planning on buying a property? Please try to be as specific as possible.

I find the picture that both you and Jesse have attached offensive for what it portrays and it truly does not add any value to the discussion. Furthermore, the jab by misspelling the handle used by Rumana53 on the board does not really help with understanding this subject either. Why does there have to be such insults over a serious, interesting and very important topic?

As this is a very serious discussion and issue, what are you guys trying to hide, and why? I would find it more appropriate if you could respond in a manner that adds value to this important discussion. If there is something more specific please add it.

I for one would prefer to learn about the issues that may cause problems before buying a place versus letting the money fly and discovering that I have a problem later. As it stands now, many many people have lost money and their homes as a result of the title issues in Baja. Let's try to fully understand this problem so we can save our own arse and maybe also help someone else down the road also. This should be a good thing.

Thank-you

ramuma53 - 3-24-2011 at 10:59 AM

MitchMan
´How good is the title that is held when a fideicomiso is involved in a La Paz property?´
A fideicomiso is a Bank Trust holding the property rights and making sure the American owner have and will have during the life of the bank trust the possession of the real estate subjected to the fideicomiso and if a problem explode that deprive the American of the possession, the Bank supposedly will have to pay back the American who is the Bank trust beneficiary.
Supposedly the bank must check that a legal title exist and is good and legal, but we have found out that that is as good as the attorneys they use and they usually do not know anything about national land rights and I to this day do not know why they do not do what I am advising you here, check the title chain up to the first document that has to be a National land title.
A lot of times, the Bank trust only protect the price paid for the use of the land and the American then build the house on top and the house is not protected by the bank trust.
This mean that the bank trust only protect part of your money and is not, a guarantee that you will not have land problems, because the service they provide, is not the best quality and this fact, is part of the big problem, because it should be the best quality.

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by ramuma53]

wessongroup - 3-24-2011 at 11:07 AM

WoW.... Common sense... what is this place coming too....

Good post "lookingandbuying" spot on....

Let's get past personality and stick with the "structure" of how a real estate transactions "risk" can be reduced... to almost zero... nothing ever reaches zero risk... however through proper due diligence one can reduce the risk... and I must agree... that seems to be something which would help the "economy" of Baja and/or Mexico more than a single thing... the ownership of property in a foreign Country... just makes sense...

What has been learned must be unlearned... and a new set of instruction developed which can serve as a "road map" obtaining a property in Baja and/or Mexico with the least amount of risk .... :):)

Really appreciate all input on this... has been a wealth of information which is not readily found anywhere... and now one has the tools to FIND the correct information .... That is a big step in my book....

ramuma53 - 3-24-2011 at 11:08 AM

MichMan
La Paz area land is on top of a National Colony and was protected by colonial titles that were not full private property titles and most of La Paz is at this time National Land property with only a few National Land procedures going on to buy the land from the Nation.

Bank Trust-National Land title

lookingandbuying - 3-24-2011 at 11:25 AM

Ramuma53,

Hope all is well with you. I have a quick question and would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

I was reading somewhere on the Internet about the National
Land title problems. In part of the article it discussed where many of the properties that have this problem are held in a Bank Trust. I believe it said something to the effect that it was the bank's obligation as the trustee to ensure that the property was free of any liens.

If the is the case (the trustee should be ensuring title is clear) would the bank's that are acting on the behalf of these home owners be liable for correcting the problem. If this National Land title problem did explode I am sure some of the banks that are not involved to much would help correct or pay for the problem just as a matter to salvage their reputation in the mess. But, in other cases some of the banks have done a lot of trusts and the costs involved to correct the problem would be to big for them to cover.

So with the above background, my question is: what are your thoughts about those properties that may have a National Land title defect and are held in a bank trust. Would the bank be legally liable to correct the title defect problem because they are the trustee?? I ask this question more so because the Punta Banda properties were not held in bank trusts (I believe). Anyway, it is going to be interesting to see who ends up being liable to pay for these problems, if they do erupt.

Thank-you

wessongroup - 3-24-2011 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
1) Do not look ever for legal advice from a 'lawyer' posting on a forum.

2) A certain nomad along who participated in this thread shares equal responsibility for this promotion.


To the first... yes... or just about any place... the law can be accessed and "current" rulings can be discovered .... if one needs a "lawyer" for the Courts... arrangements can be made...

Second... didn't see a promotion here for anything other than answers to some very basic questions ... and a systematic procedure to follow when "buying" land in Baja... given the current "flux" of knowledge on a couple of prime points .. who owns the property, being the first !!!! and document that "fact" then move to the next stage of the property transaction...

jenny.navarrette - 3-24-2011 at 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
A fideicomiso is a Bank Trust holding the property rights and making sure the American owner have and will have during the life of the bank trust the possession of the real estate subjected to the fideicomiso and if a problem explode that deprive the American of the possession, the Bank supposedly will have to pay back the American who is the Bank trust beneficiary.
Supposedly the bank must check that a legal title exist and is good and legal, but we have found out that that is as good as the attorneys they use and they usually do not know anything about national land rights and I to this day do not know why they do not do what I am advising you here, check the title chain up to the first document that has to be a National land title.
A lot of times, the Bank trust only protect the price paid for the use of the land and the American then build the house on top and the house is not protected by the bank trust.
This mean that the bank trust only protect part of your money and is not, a guarantee that you will not have land problems, because the service they provide, is not the best quality and this fact, is part of the big problem, because it should be the best quality.


That is entirely incorrect, ramuma. You have drifted away from your area of expertise. As you are a Mexican, and have no need for a fideicomiso, that is understandble. The bank has no obligation for any title defects. The bank receives the title from the buyer and holds it for the buyer. If the title the bank receives is bad, it is not the banks problem. You are characterizing the bank as some kind of title insurance guarantor.

The notario would be responsible to the buyer for a title problem he did not identify, not the bank. However, there is no notario in Mexico with enough assets to cover the losses from just one of those Rosarito condos when it blows up. In any event, the problem would just be drawn out in the courts until the notario involved dies from old age and there is no one to chase.

By the way, a fideicomiso is not a "Bank trust". A trust is a three-party agreement involving a trustor, a trustee and a beneficiary. There are no trusts in Mexico -- no enabling legislation. A fideicomiso is a two-party contract between the buyer and the bank. There are legal protections that keep the fideicomiso seperate from the bank's assets and the bank's creditors.

jenny.navarrette - 3-24-2011 at 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Ramuma53,

I was reading somewhere on the Internet about the National
Land title problems. In part of the article it discussed where many of the properties that have this problem are held in a Bank Trust. I believe it said something to the effect that it was the bank's obligation as the trustee to ensure that the property was free of any liens.


You are confusing a good title with a lien-free title. They are two entirely different things. You can have a good title to a property and still have it subject to liens.

E.D.R.Rick - 3-24-2011 at 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
For those that have questions about Real Estate aquisition in Baja.
The real thing, not for the people who think that, just having confidence on a public notary si enough.
Baja is considered all ver Mexico as a very difficult place to buy for foreigners and nationals alike.
The lack of confidence has scared most of the would be buyers in Baja California on the Ensenada Tijuana strip and the local authorities, have taken advantage of this problem instead of correcting it, if you have questions about the real state of afairs on Real Estate, make your questions here.
I am the "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito" and "Cronica de un fraude a la Nacion" author, publications on the ABC Estate newspaper and several national publications, concerning the Real Estate problem in Baja, 30 years experience on the subject.

lookingandbuying - 3-24-2011 at 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Ramuma53,

I was reading somewhere on the Internet about the National
Land title problems. In part of the article it discussed where many of the properties that have this problem are held in a Bank Trust. I believe it said something to the effect that it was the bank's obligation as the trustee to ensure that the property was free of any liens.


You are confusing a good title with a lien-free title. They are two entirely different things. You can have a good title to a property and still have it subject to liens.


I don't think I'm confused :?::?:

As good title is defined as: A title that is free of liens and legal questions as to ownership of the property. A requirement for the sale of real estate. also called just title or clear title or free and clear .

Lien-free title is a term used for a property that is owned outright by an individual(s), listing that individual(s) on the title as the registered owner. There is no outstanding loan obligation on a lien-free property.

We of course can own a property and have good title to it that is subject to liens. This is what the question was really about. People "think" they are buying a property that is free of any superior liens than those of which they are acquiring or placing themselves on the property. And, this appears that it is not the case as there is a lien that is a superior lien to their interest in the property as a result of the National Land title issue. Because of the issue of National Land, people that are buying or have bought a place are NOT getting either good title or a lien-free title. The problem is that they do not know this and they think they are buying a place free of liens (paid in full), other than those they have created or other minor issues like easements etc.

In a fideicomiso, more commonly referred to as a Bank Trust, there are 3 parties involved as in all trusts, the settlor, trustee, and the beneficiary. The fideicomiso does in fact have all 3 elements so it is in fact a trust arrangement.

Regarding the banks involvement, I would agree that the bank holds these trust assets separate from those of the bank and the bank's other assets.

This means that the the banks assets should not be subject to claims arising out of these trust arrangements and also visa versa the creditors of the bank would not have claims to any of the assets of the trusts that are held. This being the case it is still a murky issue at best. Since the bank is acting in this capacity they may have some obligations to the beneficiaries. More so if they were on notice of these title defect issues and just did business as usual and kept collecting the fees year in and year out.

I certainly would not want to ever find myself in the position of trying to go after the bank in regards to getting my money back after losing it because of a National Land title defect. I would prefer to discover the problems, if any, prior to letting the money leave my bank savings.

As far as bank trusts being legal in Mexico I did see the following: President Echeverria approved the bank trust, Mexico fideicomiso, form of ownership which is available to non-Mexicans This regulation was further expanded in the Foreign Investment Law of 1989.

Woooosh - 3-24-2011 at 02:11 PM

I don't know who this newbie Jenny.navarette is, but it would seem she has joined Nomadlandia with a Rosarito real estate agenda of some sort. Not many newbies come out of the box this strong.

S/he posted on Maggies site that the there was a "hit" order out for me because of the discussion of narcos and real estate development taking place on another thread. That isn't true and this nomad does not appreciate newbies twisting information found here in their posts. Now every post Jenny.Navarettte makes is suspect because their credibility is shot.

Maggie identified Jenny.Navarette by the isp used as "Linton", whoever that is- and rebutted the cartel comments. Cartel dollars in real estate development is very old news in Rosarito for sure and so are the discussions about it. Maggie deleted the comments. Interesting newbie to keep an eye on for sure. Troll might be too nice a word for the way s/he is starting out. jmo.

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 3-24-2011 at 03:56 PM

"Good title" .... Now thats a catchy phase if one deals in Real Estate title..

How about a "Clear Title"... that being:

"A historical summary of all the recorded transactions that affect the title to the property. An attorney or a title company will review an abstract of title to determine if there are any problems affecting the title to the property. All such problems must be cleared before the buyer can be issued a clear and insurable title."

I've seen a few "transactions" that could not be concluded ..... due to the Title not being "clear"... as opposed to "good".... that's usually what the loan officer will be saying.. in their write up.... for credit... to make an informed decision based on fact... or should I say that is how it should be done, as required by law...

Also a simple statement in the real estate purchase agreement which makes the transaction "Subject to" the perfection of any and/or all documents to support ownership, prior to the exchange of any funds... is a useful tool in Real Estate transaction..

super thread ....

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by wessongroup]

CLEAR TITLE

lookingandbuying - 3-24-2011 at 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
"Good title" .... Now thats a catchy phase if one deals in Real Estate title..

How about a "Clear Title"... that being:

"A historical summary of all the recorded transactions that affect the title to the property. An attorney or a title company will review an abstract of title to determine if there are any problems affecting the title to the property. All such problems must be cleared before the buyer can be issued a clear and insurable title."

I've seen a few "transactions" that could not be concluded ..... due to the Title not being "clear"... as opposed to "good".... that's usually what the loan officer will be saying.. in their write up.... for credit... to make an informed decision based on fact... or should I say that is how it should be done, as required by law...

Also a simple statement in the real estate purchase agreement which makes the transaction "Subject to" the perfection of any and/or all documents to support ownership, prior to the exchange of any funds... is a useful tool in Real Estate transaction..

super thread ....

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by wessongroup]


Now, if we could all have this happen when buying a property in Mexico it would be a wonderful world indeed.:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Woooosh - 3-25-2011 at 08:12 AM

"Executives of San Felipe's El Dorado Ranch Charged With Fraud"

Ramuma53- Fulano's Blog posted this story this morning. It is interesting to me because they made a video and blame "gringos" for bribing officials, not the Mexican officials for soliciting or taking the bribes. That's a new approach to corruption- blame the money.

Does this mean the courts in Mexico City have finally begun to issue difficult legal decisions instead of more stalling? Just wondering if this means more decisions, like those pending on Rosarito- are coming sooner rather than later. The reader comments after the article are interesting too.

http://crisoldesanfelipe.com/?p=2621

(rough Google Translation)

"Pat Butler and Jesus Olmos Charged With Fraud"

SAN FELIPE, BC .- For the crimes of fraud and fraud trial were reported to the public prosecutor of corporate executives called Rancho El Dorado Pat Butler and Jesus Olmos, for the crime of fraud and fraud trial, his lawyer and Cuauhtemoc Sandoval.

The complaint is a result of legal conflict in the area known as Playa Blanca. Legal arguments to try to retain and deprive the owners of the land, as stated in the ruling in favor of Aaron Marcos García Sañudo and a trial of positive prescription.

In addition to the above criminal complaint, prepares one for the immigration status of a subject who is known by the name of Cliff, who is abroad and allegedly captained a group of white guards, which aims to maintain possession by force of property and for which they were armed with golf clubs. The only golf course in San Felipe is right at Rancho El Dorado.


It is therefore requested the National Institute of Migration, verify the immigration status of that subject, in the sense that if you have permission to be employed in Mexico and commanding an assault group.

By an avalanche of injunctions in federal courts, is talk of at least eight-Pat Butler has tried to become the property Playa Blanca, all these remedies have lost them.

The legal history of Playa Blanca is very stale, but lost the legal battle of El Dorado is just last year, when the highest court of the country's courts, the Supreme Court's Office, refused to recognize the legal personality a legal entity called San Felipe Beach Club and therefore has no right to be in possession of the property and as a last desperate attempt, as squatters changed the Michaus Garcia probate.

Rancho El Dorado allegedly bought the property in Playa Blanca, using data and a ground plane similar vessels which are in the municipality of Ensenada, and hence could constitute the crime of fraud and fraud trial.

However, on March 22, 2011, when again there is a conflict, because the white guards who according to their own managers work for San Felipe Beach Club, tried to prevent the passage of Aaron Marcos García Sañudo and its Playa Blanca property, so it took the presence of the municipal police and other authorities, where it was demonstrated by letters of courts that this company, San Felipe Beach Club has no legal personality or the right to be possessor of the property, since courts lost their legal battle and now supposedly are the heirs of García Michaus.

In consideration of the attorneys for Aaron Sañudo and Mark Garcia, constitutes the offense of fraud proceedings, because the attorney representing San Felipe Beach Club represents the succession of García Michaus and in law, intended to be a possession of the land for two legal interests different with the same people, which was demonstrated, as Dorado staff, some with clothes emblazoned with the logo of the company, showed up to lead the white guards, including this Cliff.

The possession of the land was kept at all times Sañudo and Garcia, although it was not so evident as they were awaiting the court ruling, but before the attacks against its permanence and is visible at the entrance of the property, where Dorado maintain equipment and personnel from the El Dorado Homeowners Association, which itself is a moral person could get caught up in legal issues, it uses its resources to retain a property by force. This association is composed of foreigners, mostly.

The final chapter of this legal dispute is about to occur, there are vocal range they win Sañudo Aaron and Mark Garcia, that they have gone in the legal battle and the story is very different from the area known as "The Mattress", which was taken from the National Land Plan ejidatarios therefore failed to assert its strength as the agrarian community.

When was this conflict in the second half of the Administration of Eugenio Elorduy, the farmers, put up a sign with a caption saying that if General Zapata alive would die of shame for the dispossession of land owners, however, the truth is that if the great rebel, the head of the Southern Liberation Army lived, would the National Agrarian ejidatarios in the wall, as the slaughter of a million lives that took our great Revolution, came to nothing by allowing them to remove this porsión land, the government gave to ejidatarios and is now in the hands of a corporate crime

Cypress - 3-25-2011 at 08:36 AM

The government giveth and the government taketh away, while the lawyers have a field day. If someone wants your property and they have the resources they will obtain it. Title? Deeds? Oh! A slight discrepancy?

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 10:02 AM

lookingandbuying
I will tell you an example that is taking place at this very minute:
Km 54 Venustiano Carranza town, on top of half way house and Campo Lopez.
Venustiano Carranza is a very old town, where a family named Victorio arrived in 1940s, some of them have birth certificates from 1949 with address on the Venustiano Carranza town, today they have several official schools and churches with around 1000 houses that mostly belong to the same family, the names are Victorio Victorio, Victorio Rodarte and every Victorio combination you may think of.
In 1990, They had a lot of problems with friends of the then Baja Governor, Xicotencatl Leyva Mortera and to obtain the costal lands, they even jailed Rosendo Victorio Victorio, the town leader; they were blaming him for taking the land from the governor´s friends and they jailed him 5 times for the same crime while in jail they subjected him to so much pressure that turned him in to a diabetic and his hair turned in a couple of months white; they were taking him from his jail cell several times during the night, hitting him and the for hours asking him to sign papers saying that he recognized the governor´s friend and partner Ernesto Ellis Gavilondo was the town legal owner and the torture instrument was Attorney Rafael Zeta Flores but after all that nightmare, Rosendo never signed a paper and was freed by the Federal Judge against all Estate pressure.
The whole town consulted me and I told them that the land was National property, they promptly filled the procedure and paid for the land to the Federal Government, a National Land title was issued to Rosendo Victorio Victorio and the whole town was protected.
Immediately, the Governor and their friends started to attack the National Land legality but at that time the Governor had to resign because the new Mexican president obligated him to resign for his ties to the drug traffickers and the illegal pressure ended for a while.
Ernesto Ellis Gavilondo was also friend to the new Governor, Ernesto Ruffo Appel and the pressure not only do not ended, was the worst the town suffered and they managed to convince Banamex to give them a Fideicomiso that was on top of Rosendo Victorio Victorio´s title with 20,000 m2 while Rosendo´s title was 970,000 m2, they started a federal trial in Mexico city without even notify Rosendo and they managed to get a quick sentence, declaring the title void on 20,000 m2.
This mean that at least 950,000 m2 were beyond any doubt but the SRA never gave him his title back and to this day the town is pressing for the title to be re issued; the SRA just gave them the go ahead and gave notice to Banamex, who is holding the bank trust or Fideicomiso.
In the time while they voided the title and the time it is being re issued, Banamex built a high end land development named La Puerta del Mar and half way House that belong to the Lagos-Yagues group.
In meetings with Banamex here in Mexico city, Banamex just understood that they have no hope, because the title was void only because the bank was not notified about the Rosendo procedure, never mind that at the time when the title was issued, the fideicomino did not exist and Banamex was not involved, but now they have been legally notified.
Now they are trying to save face and offer to buy the land at its cadastral value but without any publicity; the housed built on top of the title are valued at over USD$80´000,000.00 offering to pay USD$4´000,000 for the land.
If you were Rosendo Victorio Victorio estate because he died a few years back in poverty from the Diabetes that he acquired in jail, what would you do?????
The fideicomisos are a tool to convince buyers to buy, but will not protect you from losing your house, the most they can do is pay you back some of the money, and that only if you read the fine print, because many of them say that they will not be accountable if the land title has any flaws, dumping the money responsibility on the developer that usually is a very influential and wealthy Mexican and him is who you will face trying to recover some money.
If you have a fideicomiso and you are on top of National Land, it will not protect you from losing your house.

mtgoat666 - 3-25-2011 at 10:07 AM

ramsanus53:
you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean.

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 10:38 AM

jenny.navarrette
I am portraying the Fideicomiso as bank trust, because it is similar and serve similar purposes not because it is identical and of course Mexico has no bank trusts, it is only something similar, but if you understand a bank trust, you will understand that a bank is involved and it will hold the property rights, while the buyer hold the possession and the seller the money obtained for the sale.
But concerning the bank being responsible, you are wrong, because the bank is holding the title property rights and it is the actual owner, responsible to the buyer; if the bank receives a title with a defect, it hold nothing, but it is still responsible to the buyer for the money paid and law ignorance does not condone the breaking of the law so what the bank does not investigate in time, will harm it and just ask it to Banamex, that is the spirit of the law that created Fideicomisos, to protect the buyer financially.
Also the public notary, in Mexico is responsible to the government, about giving formality to the contract and formality means that he have to check that the contract is made according to the law and that mean that the he has to check the title´s legality and yes he is obligated by law, to check for defects in the title, but he is not obligated to look back on the title chain, if he has another public notary scripture, as the source of the title rights he is getting and there lies the problem, they call it the diabolic test and they argue they are not obligated to do it, because they would be putting in doubt another public notary work and that consider that almost a capital sin.
What they call the diabolic test, is to follow the title chain, until you find the first document and it must be a National land title, as ordered by the Mexican constitution, but they do not want to check on another public notary´s work, they want to give it legal true status, but that position cannot go against legality, or the constitution and that is why I blame the land problems in Baja, mostly on the public Notaries, that do not do their work, according to the law and then later other public notaries, just take it for a legal true, not subjected to doubt. I am sorry, that cannot hold against the constitution and it is not holding anything back, specially the National Land problems, because the law says that, absolutely no other Mexican authority, can give away National Land and that is true for public notaries.
Another example will tell you a lot:
In 1959 a bunch of land owners that claimed to own the strip from Calafia to La Mission, went to a Public Notary and showing him a bunch of papers as the public notary put in his official writing, some written on tortilla paper, all coming from informal sales made by Don Juan Machado and we wrote that they showed him no title only told him that don Juan Machado claimed to have bought the 5000 Has lot from the National Land office, but no public official paper and when he checked all the contract´s areas, they added to 19,000 Has.
Then the public notary just says that to avoid a public problem, he made a title giving away all that land and made his scripture and every public notary from him on, claim that they cannot doubt his work; just tell me if that public notary writing can hold against the Mexico´s constitution that forbid any authority to give away National land, allowing only the national land office to sell it.

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 10:58 AM

mtgoat666
You must feel very bad having 666 on your pseudoname:wow:
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.
If you consider a crime to make public the law, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to make a complaint about a restaurant selling protected species turtle soup, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to help a 60 year old town, protect its land against governor´s friends who want to develop it against the law and without paying for the land, yes I am guilty.
If you consider asking people to check on public notaries work, because they have not been doing their job, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to think in Mexico and Baja before thinking on the developers benefit, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to not bending on the drug traffickers actions, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime talking about a problem that is already publicly known and has taken away the houses from Americans, yes I am guilty.

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 11:09 AM

Cypress
What we are trying, is that they can not do it just because they want their frinds to beneffit from it, or in an illegal way or without consequences.

mtgoat666 - 3-25-2011 at 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.


perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned.

Your response is warranted

lookingandbuying - 3-25-2011 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.


perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned.


Hi 666,

Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.

My computer is running, my reading glasses are on and the volume is turned up so let's HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY...all specifically factually documented, of course. :yes::yes::yes::yes:

Thank-you

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 12:19 PM

mtgoat666
It is clear that you are not arguing, if what I say, is or not true, or if it will help people buying land in Baja or not, but you attack without any provocation or reason and also without any proof of what you say and in that you are the same as Jesse.
By now you know me and you know that anything you say, I will prove with documents and laws, so I will wait for your lies and will demonstrate you as a liar and I will surely take you up on that, but please also say:

Why you are so interested, in shooting the massager that carry a message that is clearly useful for American buyers???
Why don´t you just tell us now, when and why I broke the law? Because you must actually know, to make that kind of public accusations, or, do you need to consult your people, so they tell you, how to attack the people who is clearly affecting their interests by allowing people to know what you want to hide so desperately?????:?:
Because when you attack, you must first have the bullets in your gun, not threaten people and then ask for the bullets.

Instead of discouraging me, your un provoked and false accusations, encourage me, because that mean, that what we are providing here, is having an effect, on the people causing the problem, the people benefiting from other people´s problems, people that only think in short time profit, that does not care about Mexico or Baja´s name in front of Mexico´s guests and only want to walk safe on the beach their golden years.
People who do not care about the actual Baja North estate, that is on every investor´s black list, around the world for real estate investments.
Answer this and then bring every accusation you may think you have and I will refute you publicly and with proof as always and let people here judge us, but then, you have to accept the verdict.;)

[Edited on 3-25-2011 by ramuma53]

Cypress - 3-25-2011 at 01:02 PM

Real estate ownership by non Mexican citizens in Mexico is a combination of smoke and mirrors. You've got clear title till you don't. You have citizenship or you don't. All it takes is one accusation against you by who- the- heck- knows and you're toast. Reality check! Mexico was a 3rd. world country, now it's a narco-state ruled by the AK 47.

MitchMan - 3-25-2011 at 01:34 PM

Ramuma53, thank you for the responses to my question.

This thread is very intriguing. However, I am very insecure with regard to ownership in Baja by way of a fideicomiso, even if backed up with a title insurance policy. If a fido functions like a trust while not actually being a trust, and if the trustee bank is in fact legally charged with the legal fiduciary responsibilities of a trustee in the same way that a trustee of an actual trust, then the trustee has no indemnification responsibilities in case of a defect in the legal title.

In a true trust, the trustee simply acquired title as is and has management/custodial responsibilities pursuant to the best interest of the beneficiary. Generally speaking, that’s it. The quality of the title that the trustee acquired is the same quality that the trustor/beneficiary would have acquired had such trustor/beneficiary been allowed to receive such title in the Baja. In a true trust, per se, the trustee functions in the capacity of a custodian of the property title, is technically the owner especially with regard to the specific ability to transfer title in writing and not an indemnifier nor a guarantor of the quality of the title. Fiduciary responsibility is to act in the best interest of the trustor/beneficiary, not to indemnify the title. That’s the sole responsibility of title insurance.

However, because of the world wide defective nature of law, the title policies available for Fido acquired property in the Baja stipulate that the insurer is only responsible for indemnifying items that were discovered/disclosed by the title search, and has no responsibility to indemnify the trustee/beneficiary against legitimate claims against the policy holder that went undiscovered in the title search. Which, BTW, renders title insurance practically useless.

Now, Rumama, this is pivotal and all important. Where is it written in Mexican law or in the fideicomiso instrument itself that the fideicomiso bank trustee must reimburse the beneficiary, and/or that the trustee has indemnification responsibility in case of any and all defects of the title at the time of acquisition of the title by way of the fideicomiso itself? I don’t need an interpretation, I need a pertinent unambiguous legally sufficient citation of Mexican law.

I have done some legal research myself in the past, especially with regard to issues that affect financial matters, and I know that sometimes there isn’t succinct, on point support. Sometimes it goes down to precedent, what the courts commonly adjudicate, legal construction, etc. But, in this case, as a practical matter, anything less than specificity only leads to speculation and expectation, and that, in this specific issue, is next to worthless and not any more reliable than a notion or a hunch.

I thank you in advance for any light that you can shed on this. Your responses on this forum and the time you have spent responding is impressive.

[Edited on 3-25-2011 by MitchMan]

MitchMan - 3-25-2011 at 02:10 PM

Below are some quotes pertinent to the issue in recent post:

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
...because the bank is holding the title property rights and it is the actual owner, responsible to the buyer; if the bank receives a title with a defect, it hold nothing, but it is still responsible to the buyer for the money paid and law ignorance does not condone the breaking of the law so what the bank does not investigate in time...


Rumama, you mentioned above that the bank trustee is still responsible to the buyer/trustor/benefiary in case of a heretofore unknown defect in the title. That is the part that would be assuring to have a controlling legal reference on.

Below is a quote/comment from you regarding the reason for the existance of the fideicomiso itself:

Quote:
...the spirit of the law that created Fideicomisos, to protect the buyer financially.


Not arguing with you at all, but I am under the impression that the reason for the fido was so that the Mexican government would have some legal mechanism that would make it easy for them to readily and legally repatriate and reacquire title to sensitive, key strategic protected coastal and border property easily if it thought it needed to for the purposes of it own national interest, be it defense or financial, or just out of Mexican insecurity based on their historical experience with foreign countries. Nationalization is not something rare or unknown in Latin American countries.

If I am right on this last point in the preceding paragraph, then incentive for the creation and operation of the fideicomiso is not solely, if at all, for the benefit of the foreign land owner, but for the benefit and support of the Mexican sovereinty. You and I both know that the foundational reason for a given statutory law is a prime consideration in application and interpretation of a given law, not to mention how it is enforced.

I pose these things to you because I have confidence in your ability to set the record straight.

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 04:26 PM

Cypress
As long as you accept that Mexico is a third world country, where everything is different and the most bizarre things can happen and are normal, including that you can solve legal issues with a Kalashnikov 7.62x37 (AK47), you will continue to have problems and do, what the guy with the AK47 want.

I respectfully do not agree with you, Mexico is a 1.5 world country and that mean a it is country trying to become a first world country, that looks or many people want everybody to think, it is a 3rd world country.

Reality is that with the law in your hand and doing things like if you were in the USA or any other first world country, you can protect your property and also you can buy land and get it at very good prices if you know what you are doing.
The laws are there to protect you, the bank procedures and instruments are there but Americans thinking that Mexico is the way you say, accept to buy without the legal and bank protections.
I accept, that Baja is behind in land legality, actually it is the worst in mexico, but in most of Mexico land legality is clear, just ask to the San Miguel Allende Guanajuato American community or several old American communities in Mexico; there nobody has any land legality problems, everybody sell and buy with full protections and nobody will accept an in house title insurance, they would laugh at it.
Also, one way or the other, Americans will take over both Bajas at one time or another and it will become first world, before many other estates, but it will never happen as long as buyers keep believing, they can accept less than logical deals from developers.
Buyers have the power to buy or not buy and if you do not buy, the developer will go broke, but if the buyer keep giving money away, for less than legal properties, to developers, that do not have to make the land developed, legal, they will just skip that part and take your money, leaving you with the problems.

If you were right, I would not be here writing, they would have used the AK47 on me several times already and they would have taken my land away also.

I cannot say that they have not tried and are not at this time trying, but I have the tools to keep them at bay and anybody can do it with the right information.

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 04:44 PM

MitchMan
You are right, but the Fideicomiso is a tool that has to be used by a professional and it has a lot of power that usually does not get used; you can draw a weak fiedicomiso or a strong fieicomiso and that is the part that I would like to remark.
You can draw a fieicomiso that really protect the buyer from any problem and obligate the bank to reimburse the buyer for title defects or any kind of problem, but you have to make the fideicomiso that way and it will only be made that way if the buyer insist on doing it that way or he walk away and most buyers do the same.

If you allow the bank to put its own conditions, it will evade most of the responsibilities, but if you put them in a deal breaker situation and most people do the same, they will draw a strong fideicomiso that really protect you for any kind of problem.
The spirit of the law governing the fideicomiso was not as you say, to recover land, it was created to protect the foreigner buyer, that have been up to that time, taken advantage by National sellers, on the forbidden by law land strips and protect the buyer mean to protect him from monetary damage coming from any kind of problem, but you have to make it that way.
The tools are there, but you have to know how to use them.

mulegemichael - 3-25-2011 at 05:04 PM

so....i guess mark and olivia are in prison now, right?....you are soooooo full of it!...sooooo.

MitchMan - 3-25-2011 at 05:12 PM

Great answer, Ramuma53. Makes perfect sense to me. Just to confirm my understanding of the key points to your response, it sounds like the existing law relating to the fideicomiso, pe se, does not itself mandate/require that the trustee bank indemnify the trustor/benefiiary in case of a pre-existing legitimate claim that was not disclosed by the time of the closing of the property acquisition, but such indemnification can be obtained by a proper writing of the terms of the fido. Right?

If my interpretation is right, then that info is Golden!

Side point, can I interpret your response as a confirmation that I am right about the ineffectiveness of a title policy?

This is great stuff, man, just a little too late for me. In my travels, I have never personally met an attorney that knew his a#s from a hole in the ground about basic law, even less about tax law. Mexican tax law is what I usually have to lecture them on. Not saying that about you, Ramuma53, you seem to know your stuff.

[Edited on 3-26-2011 by MitchMan]

SDRonni - 3-25-2011 at 07:02 PM

Reading all of this makes me want to throw up. We tried to do the right thing and thought all our t's were crossed and our i's dotted.....I feel sick.....:barf:

MitchMan - 3-25-2011 at 07:36 PM

Don't feel alone SDRoni. I had an attorney involved, had two real estate agents involved, ofcourse used a notario, and even had one accountant involved. Not a peep about any of this from any of them, not on their websites, not anywhere.

This is the huge difference between American efficiency and forthrightness compared to the third world Mexico and its grossly unqualified and careless so called professionals. Not you, Ramuma53. I have learned that, that is the rule out here in Baja land, it's part of the landscape. It is as common as good Dorado fishing, great tacos, beautiful sunsets, lax sanitation, and friendly locals.

My wife keeps reminding me that the lax-ness of the culture is why I like it there. So, she tells me to shut up or get rid of the property and not go back to the baja. So, I still go to the baja about 8 to 10 times a year.

BTW, my wife won't have anything to do with the baja, the people or its culture. She says semi-rhetorically "what kind of people commonly have bars on the windows in their own neighborhoods, don't insist on cleanliness, half complete their houses, lack basic curiosity, are never on time to anything, don't insist on potable water or adequate drainage, and have a cavalier attitude toward government corruption?" Then she answers her own questions with, "Mexicans'.

[Edited on 3-26-2011 by MitchMan]

ramuma53 - 3-25-2011 at 09:38 PM

My friends
A fideicomiso is a very complex tool, that can be used for a lot of things, not only for Americans buying a home in Baja, it is used all over Mexico for a lot of different business, but you can always make sense of its basic principles, all the other stuff is just detail for special cases and please notice that I am trying to make this as simple as possible and not use complex professional language and some people will try to correct this by using that complex language and correct me, but what we want here is to understand the basic principle and then extend it to infinity if you want.
The Fideicomiso is a contract between 3 parties, two who want to compromise between themselves and want to be sure the contract will be obeyed exactly and the last one the bank; the bank act as guarantor that make sure the contract between the other two parties goes exactly as initially proposed and in the case of the fideicomiso for houses, it is called ´translativo de dominio´ or that it retain the property dominium right (because the law forbid foreigners to own property beside the coasts).
But the most important part, is that it is not restrictive, there is not one kind of fideicomiso or a set of obligations that must be obeyed, you can make the fideicomiso as you make a contract and you put all the conditions, every condition or obligation you may think of, there are no limitation but the agreement between the 3 parties and the law.
Of course being a complex tool, need special professionals to draw the contract and that is what you should find, your fideicomiso attorney, because not every attorney know about the fideicomiso details, but you can get a fideicomiso expert in one bank and make the fideicomiso in another bank, never use the own bank fideicomiso expert or they will draw the contract to favor the bank and that mean, make it as less liable as possible, the same as you shall not use your other party in a contract´s attorney to draw your contract with him.
You can make a fidecomiso about going to the moon and exploit there a business or anything else and that mean that it can also obligate the bank to anything he accept to be obligated, no limitation, and that include to repay you, if a title flaw is found in the future; of course they will tell you, that is the title insurance job, but you can also include that in the fideicomiso, so they are liable to be sure, that nothing will affect you and they are responsible to get the title insurance; in other words, don’t let them off the hook and if they want to get a title insurance for themselves, let them do it, but the bank must be responsible to collect from the title insurance company, not you and be sure, they will never under those conditions, accept an in house title insurance, much less when the company has its base in the Cayman Islands, my question to them, is why they allow you to accept those risks when that is their job?.

Just remember that in a fideicomiso the bank acts just like another person that will compromise himself to the conditions you want him to be obligated; if he doesn’t want to do it, go to another bank, it is a very well paid service they provide.

cancer

mtgoat666 - 3-25-2011 at 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.


i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society.

Goat666 has no value or information

lookingandbuying - 3-26-2011 at 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Goat666:
ramsanus53:
"you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean."

Originally posted by ramuma53:
"Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess."

Originally posted by Goat666:
"perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned."

(Goat Devil you should have at least included the above in
your post to me in order to keep it honest)

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.


i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society.


666,

You come on this thread and others that have a similar subject matter and make unsubstantiated comments and rude remarks. For your information, I have taken the time to read the "turtle" thread...all 94 pages start to finish. Of course I read everything on the "turtle" thread except for the comments on the thread that were deleted by Jesse himself. In the above noted thread you conducted yourself in the same manner you have here, a rude flame throwing blowhard that is impudent. And, as you suggested above, I "have asked around". Specifically, I asked you since you offered and it is now a fact you have no information of value, at all.

This thread should be for adults that want to have a serious conversation regarding real estate in Mexico and issues specifically related to title defects or other subject matter surrounding this issue.

Go find a kiddie pool for the 3 years olds somewhere else. If you want to play here you should at least be able to contribute something that has value or merit. So go and do whatever you want Goat666 as you are now fully exposed as the old wind bag that you really are. And, as is typical with old wind bags in this day and age, you hide behind a keyboard and computer.

It would have been a better idea for you to explain yourself and provides facts behind what you claim. To bad you obviously just don't have any.

You are the cancer here. YOU do not add any value to the conversation here, at all. The term troll is too nice of a term for you. If you choose to be a drive by flame thrower you should at least have the common courtesy to back-up your statements with factual information.

Have a nice day/evening.

YOU ARE DISMISSED!!!

wessongroup - 3-26-2011 at 07:01 AM

Not bad... lookingandbuying.... your starting to come into focus.... big time

JESSE - 3-26-2011 at 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Originally posted by Goat666:
ramsanus53:
"you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean."

Originally posted by ramuma53:
"Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess."

Originally posted by Goat666:
"perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned."

(Goat Devil you should have at least included the above in
your post to me in order to keep it honest)

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.


i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society.


666,

You come on this thread and others that have a similar subject matter and make unsubstantiated comments and rude remarks. For your information, I have taken the time to read the "turtle" thread...all 94 pages start to finish. Of course I read everything on the "turtle" thread except for the comments on the thread that were deleted by Jesse himself. In the above noted thread you conducted yourself in the same manner you have here, a rude flame throwing blowhard that is impudent. And, as you suggested above, I "have asked around". Specifically, I asked you since you offered and it is now a fact you have no information of value, at all.

This thread should be for adults that want to have a serious conversation regarding real estate in Mexico and issues specifically related to title defects or other subject matter surrounding this issue.

Go find a kiddie pool for the 3 years olds somewhere else. If you want to play here you should at least be able to contribute something that has value or merit. So go and do whatever you want Goat666 as you are now fully exposed as the old wind bag that you really are. And, as is typical with old wind bags in this day and age, you hide behind a keyboard and computer.

It would have been a better idea for you to explain yourself and provides facts behind what you claim. To bad you obviously just don't have any.

You are the cancer here. YOU do not add any value to the conversation here, at all. The term troll is too nice of a term for you. If you choose to be a drive by flame thrower you should at least have the common courtesy to back-up your statements with factual information.

Have a nice day/evening.

YOU ARE DISMISSED!!!


Don't blame goat for your lack of experience here. You don't have all the facts, you don't know the history, and how do i know that? because anybody that gives ramuma the benefit of a doubt, is obviously somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about. You claim you read the turtle thread except for the parts i deleted, and foolishly base your opinions on that fact. But the fact is, that many people have deleted a hell of a lot of bad information on ramuma because they don't want any trouble with a man that has issued death treats to others. ramuma operated under the wing of a well known cartel money launderer, this is not gossip, this is a well known fact. Like i said, i don't have the time to explain to every newby that comes here, the long and stinky history of ramuma. Its long, stinky, tiredsome, and i am not in the mood to receive any more death treats from that criminal.

If you want to take (ramumas) advice, do it. But please don't dismiss the advice of someone (goat) who does know what he is talking about, just because he doesn't want to take the time to teach you the facts. You seem to believe that doing your research is the way to go here, so practice what you preach. Do your own reserach on ramuma, don't expect others to teach you what you should know.

National Land title problem, or NOT??

lookingandbuying - 3-26-2011 at 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
People, people, people!!! what are you doing?? you are taking advice from a man who makes a living breaking every law he is talking about here. Forget the shady unrealistic advice. In Baja, there is only one way to protect yourself against a man like ramuma, and here it is:

BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE THERE HASNT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL.

Predators like ramuma would never try to implemente one of his scams in an area where Mexicans have lived for decades, because they would raise hell if someone tried it. The richer the Mexicans in the area, the less likely a scam artists will try to steal your land.

Buying property in the middle of nowhere, is far riskier than buying where people live and have been living for decades. Scam artists, pray on properties where very few people live, specially if the owners of the property is an ejido where land problems are common. An exemption is buying property from wealthy well known Mexicans with political power, because land thieves know they can't mess with them.

Thats it, thats all the advice you truly, really, need to know.


Jesse,

I have spent a lot of time looking at real estate in mostly in the Rosarito corridor and researching issues mostly in this area.

The advice you get from EVERYONE even the so called professionals is ALL over the map and sorting through the various issues is almost impossible, if not ENTIRELY impossible. The lack of good information is a big problem. I have also spent hours looking at comments left on this board regarding real estate and prior to seeing the information left by Rumana53 it too is also all over the map. Lastly, I've looked at any available information available on the Internet.

So maybe I would not dispute your part where you say:

" BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISHED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL."

What I would like to know from you is exactly where are the "ESTABLISHED AREAS" you are talking about in the Rosarito corridor? I would also like to know exactly where the areas are that you say don't have any problems even if they are not located in the Rosarito corridor?

People have been having problems with places they buy almost everywhere I have heard of in the entire country.

Then, Rumana53 comes on this board and speaks to the property issues from Tijuana all the way to Ensenada and says "if you are going to buy a property in this area the FIRST thing you should do is go check the land file and ensure the first paper in the file is a transfer out of the National Lands." He has said no more, no less. He has provided the history for the area and also cited the court rulings to support this fact he claims about the National Land title problems that people will have if they buy a property that does not have the proper title transfer. This really seems like GREAT advice!! It is also a very simple thing to do in order to protect yourself when buying.

Why is it that there is such a problem with Rumana53's advice? I did read the entire Turtle thread in my efforts to discover why there is such hatred by some on this board against this guy. Unfortunately, I was unable to read any of your comments because you deleted all of them.

If the fact is that Rumana53 has used his better information to obtain lands from idiots that did not properly research the laws and he ended up having a superior lien on the land because of their foolishness when they were grabbing the land and letting their money fly on deals that were to good to be true in the first place then so be it. What about Punta Banda? Had these people checked they could have discovered and avoided the problems they had in losing their expensive homes.

So, what I would really like to know is what specific laws has Rumana 53 broken. He has not proposed here that anyone break any laws. He has merely advised people how to protect themselves when trying to buy a home. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

Property and land title issues are a problem all over Baja, more so in Baja Norte. While I think your suggestion to buy in a well established area that has not experienced problems (whether rich or poor) is a good one it does not solve the problem of all the land title problems in the area. And, until it does people are going to be reluctant to invest their hard earned money in the area.

I do know that Rumana53 had a problem with his neighbor the hamburger/Turtle stew lady and some on this board disagree with the method he used to get rid of her (is she still around?). The National Land title issue is an important and relevant one to anyone looking to buy a home in Baja, period. What really surprises me is that many people do not take this issue seriously and this is a big mistake. I really could not believe how people missed this entire issue in the Turtle thread and were more interested in bickering.

Sometimes you can disregard the messenger, but not the message. People deal in business all the time and the one with superior information wins, everytime.

Lastly, in many of Rumana53's posts he states his intention is to help the buyer which in the long term will help the local economy...you would think this is a good thing?

So, if you have a moment please share what exact laws Rumana53 has broken and if you have information that disputes his information about the National Land title defect issue please share it here.

Thank-you


1.-Obviously you are not familiar with the very long shady history of ramuma. Most nomads are familiar with it, but won't comment on it because they don't want to get into trouble with a man like that. I am also tired of explaining the details of his shady past to new people that comes in and wants explanations for something thats already well stablished around here. If you want to trust him or take advice from him, do it, but the man is famous around baja for his shady land grabs. That is a fact.

2.-The problem with most americans that get into land problems here in Baja, is that they think like you do. Please, try to learn what i say, IN MANY CASES IT DOESNT MATTER HOW GOOD YOUR RESEARCH IS, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LEGALLY SOLID YOUR PAPERWORK IS, because land rats operate completely outside of the law and many times, with the support of the goverment. I CAN'T EMPHASIZE THIS MORE. You seems to believe that if you do your research, and do everything right, you will be protected. But that is not true, because you are thinking like an american in america, and you are failing to see things from the Mexican perspective. You can have all the right paperwork, but if i know the judges, if i know people that can validate fake paperwork for me IN GOVERMENT, if i know investigators that can drag things for decades in order to break you financially and mentally, what good are your papers for?

That, is the element that many ignore, that many don't want to accept as a reality, because they are not used to dealing with that side in the US. Foreign people that run into land problems in Mexico, many times just scratch their head and they just can't understand why "this is happening" since all their paperwork was solid, and very well researched. And they scratch their heads because like i said, they foolishly think that security lies on doing everything legally correct. That is not true. And it will continue to cause problems for people, unless they accept theres another element, that they are not used to dealing with, that they don't understand, and most important, that they HAVE to learn about before they buy anything in Mexico.


Hi Jesse,

I really appreciate the time you have given of yourself in responding to the two recent posts I left. And really, isn't the entire purpose of this board to "share" information a person has about the in's and out's of Baja that another person may not have, in an effort to help them out? This "sharing" of information that people do here for other complete strangers is highly commendable in my humble opinion.

That said, you are correct, I am "not familiar with the very long shady history of ramuma." As you are "tired of explaining the details of his shady past to new people that comes in and wants explanations for something thats already well stablished around here" I am quite surprised that you do in fact come here, make statements as are included in the post above and then, want to be all dismissive when someone asks a valid question? It is sort of hard to have it both ways. If it is so WELL ESTABLISHED on Nomads than why do you feel the need to comment at all? The way you talk about a "newbie" is rude and dismissive in and of itself. You don't know anything about me, you don't have any idea how long I have lurked on this board before registering, and lastly, you do not know what my full opinions are about the appropriate practice one should take when contemplating buying a piece of property in Baja. Yet, you come here on your high horse and attempt to be a know it all and be dismissive and rude to a person that asks a legitimate question...on something you posted. So how long does it take to get in your more superior class and not just be one of the newbies that asks stupid questions?

You state that the "problem with most americans that get into land problems here in Baja, is that they think like you do." I really do want to know how YOU know (or think you know?) how I think or feel about a subject, especially my thoughts on buying a place in Baja? Is it maybe that once you are a non-newbie on Nomads you are issued psychic powers that allow you to read what's on everyone's mind (typed on a computer, through the Internet) and to project their full thoughts on a subject? If so, I really have to get out of this "newbie status", right away!! Can I buy something like that here?

This is the point where I start thinking I'm missing something. You state "If you want to trust him or take advice from him, do it, but the man is famous around baja for his shady land grabs. That is a fact." Jesse, let's take the man and his past according to you (and the others you know) out of the equation for a moment, ok? Is it true, or not, that there is a BIG problem with property titles in Baja that has to do with the failure of land not being properly transferred out of the National Lands of Mexico?
Yes_______ or, No______.

So you will know a true fact about my thoughts on the subject of purchasing a home in Baja I will inform you that I would tend to agree with you, even when a person thinks they have ALL the proper paperwork in the world (in correct order) reflecting that they OWN something in Mexico it can be as worthless as the paper it is written on. And I would further agree that this is because the rats operate completely outside of the law many times, with the full support of the government. I have never stated that if I (or another person) does EVERYTHING right or researches the issues that they would ever be fully protected when buying a property. But on this issue you mention Jesse, even as a "newbie", I know this most unfortunate fact. And Jesse, I am not thinking like an American in America. I fully recognize the various issues that occur when dealing in Mexico or any other country for that matter. And on this last point you raised Jesse, it is mere speculation, about what I know or think, on your part, about me, and I guess all the other idiot Americans that would like to come and live in the beautiful country of Mexico.

So when you comment about people scratching their heads when they have lost or about to lose their home in Baja even though they did have the correct paperwork and you refer to people not wanting to acknowledge the underbelly of the problems in Mexico as you say "that is the element that many ignore, that many don't want to accept as a reality, because they are not used to dealing with that side in the U.S." Personally, I do think many more people fully understand this side of the equation and that is why they do not even pursue any further efforts in buying a place much less any efforts about obtaining the appropriate paperwork. Do you know what they in fact do instead Jesse? They take their hard earned dollars and go somewhere else to buy a place. And because of this fact it it not good for Mexico or the people that live there and try to earn a living.

In your attempts to respond to the post I left for the Goat you once again go into a diatribe about my lack of experience "here" and further go on to state I do not have all of the facts. You premise your statement by further saying that "anybody that gives ramuma the benefit of a doubt, is obviously somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about." And then you state "You claim you read the turtle thread except for the parts i deleted, and foolishly base your opinions on that fact." So I'm just sitting here all confused right now as I truly just don't understand what I said to make you say that I "foolishly base your opinions on that fact." What foolishness have I done. And yes, I did in fact read the entire turtle thread, execpt for the parts you deleted. Again Jesse, the whole question is about whether or not there exists a BIG problem with MANY home and or other properties in Baja Norte because of a National Land title defect issue YES________ ? or, NO________? Don't assume that either I or others do not fully recognize the underbelly of the many other issues related to rats, fraud, theft, dead beats etc. PLEASE.

Jesse, the Goat did not provide any advice. He merely came on the board and made some rude comments about a man. And it really is too bad that the Goat does not have the time to teach a mere "newbie" like me. You must both be such superior human beings, as, well, as I guess you are not a mere "newbie" on Baja Nomads? It is just so very condescending at times when you make such statements. I am doing my own research Jesse and never have expected others to teach me what I should know. That is why when I make a decision I make it after gathering all the information I can and doing that bad thing "research" so I can make my own informed decision as a man and not base my decision on some other fool with their own agenda.

Lastly Jesse, I have seen many people on this board compliment that you have a very nice restaurant. Yet, when I did a Google search on your place I saw comments left by a number of people that it is a very bad restaurant. I would think you would not want me to formulate an opinion one way or the other based on anonymous people posting on the Internet. I would think you would prefer that I come down and taste the food and experience the service before making any negative comments about your place. Same goes here.

Thank-you again for your valuable time. I hope you have a full restaurant tonight and the cash drawer reflects that many people enjoyed the fine dining.

I do look forward to hearing back from you regarding your thoughts about the National Land title issue. And also, I do appreciate the other information you shared about problems other than the title issue mentioned above as it too is a very serious one. I guess even with the problems that you mentioned my personal preference would be to also have as many legally correct documents in my hands as possible.

ramuma53 - 3-27-2011 at 11:11 AM

Jeese the known liar
This thread, concern to people that may think on buying property in Baja and Mexico in the near future, its purpose is to give them, some basic general information, that they need, to avoid being taken advantage from, by developers or other people that just try to pass on other people, the land problems they have, because at this time, the problems exist and are a major concern to land owners in Baja.
Those problems are fixable and they should be fixed, by the owners and those that are not being solved, should not be developing the land and much less selling it to people that trusts them and are guest to this country they love.
I am providing here, the knowledge that unsuspected buyers, should have, to sort through the good and bad developers, in order that they can say that they did a real research.
Many people think, that doing the right thing, is to ask the public notary or public official and that is enough because they are trustable people, but, I am telling here while providing proof, that in Baja, those entities that should be protecting the buyer, are not doing their job right and have been doing that, for decades, creating a problem that is exploding right now and the tip of the iceberg was Punta Banda.
I am not talking bad about this people or that, or making unsubstantiated claims; I am informing here, with history and the law in my hand, what people should know before buying.
You seem to try to imply, that everything should be left the way it is and disregard what I say, but also you say, that everything is bad in Mexico and if that were the case, people should not be thinking about buying a house in Mexico, you are defeating your own allies and contradicting your own words and that is why I call you a known liar, because you just don´t make sense and people here are telling you exactly that, but you just go ahead spilling your venom without the minimal proof, just claiming to know something the others do not, but people in this thread are asking you to share your information or go out.
I think that you have the right to say what you want and other people have also the right to dismiss what you say and that is what I am going to do; I will not even think about you, unless you say something that help other people, but I have to accept that sometimes, you rise questions that help other people, understand the issue at hand, you may not provide useful information, but you rise valid questions that should be answered.

For you, everything in Mexico is crooked and to do the right thing, is a futile act and I respectfully do not agree with that statement.

Courts in Mexico are crooked? Yes, the Baja Supreme Court is known as the Persian Market, because they do not sell justice, they make a betting market out of justice on the really big cases, but 90% of the time, they provide good justice, they have a corruption problem, that must be corrected, but by just accepting that they are crooked in some cases, will not correct that problem.

Accepting that public officials, find easier to hide problems, than to correct a very unpopular problem, is not a Mexico’s problem, it happen all over the world, but just accepting it, will not correct a problem that will not go away with just time and I think that if they do not correct it, because the developers press them in to not doing it, then, the solution, is that the developers understand that they should press the public officials, in to correct the problem and only one entity can force them in to do it, because it will cost them and that entity is a well informed buyer, that will let them get old, with their luxury units frying on the sun, unless they correct a problem that they should not be passing over to the buyers.

I do not agree, on your statement that Mexico has problems that must be accepted, because that is the way it is, every problem in the world, exist to be solved; USA had a problem in the 1920—1930 era, the gangsters and mafia were buying police and judges, something similar to what Mexico is doing today and the solution was to correct the problem, they sent the Untouchables, but they were only the hands that got the job done, people on top of them, decided that it was time to correct a problem, even if they in the past accepted bribes from them. It was simply time to correct a runaway problem that, the gangsters were creating during their normal outlaw operations, do that sound familiar?.
This time has come in Mexico, just see the press people´s declaration on ´Vamos Mexico´ and they not only provided their names, they signed a paper, now the real action will take place and it will not be pretty, as the Untouchable´s operations, were not completely pretty or legal, but it is something that needs to be done and will be done, clearly not by you, but by people who care.

With the security problem, the land problem should be corrected, it has existed for decades and public officials, hided it for too much time, but the rug, has not been hiding the problems enough, they keep coming out like in Punta Banda or Venustiano Carranza or CFE or Ejido Mazatlan or La Joya del Mar, or La Puerta del Mar and we can go on and on; hiding the problem for 20 years have not corrected it and that is a fact that not even you can denny.

Another example is the fiasco the Estate government went through, when they tried to expropriate the land around Playas de Tijuana and after a couple of years, had to give most of the land back and they were defeated, with national land titles in hand while a lot of people lost their land, because they did not had their titles and we know that, that was the Estate government goal, to take the unprotected land and provide it to developers as it is actually happening.

The only person with enough power to force people with money to do things that will cost them is the buyer who knows how they are being taken advantage of.

Mexico will correct its problems, because problems cannot exist forever in any place of the world, it happened in America in the 1930s and it will happen here in the next 2 to 8 years and as soon as we start correcting the known problems, the sooner, we will be out of the woods, but people like you that just accept the problems as unsolvable are a drag.

[Edited on 3-27-2011 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-28-2011 at 08:05 AM

Aggravating the problem, the Estate Government, instead of correcting a problem they knew from the start, they profited from it in a political way.
The PAN Estate government used the information I gave them and used it to get rich in a Quasi legal way.
That is how Hector Castellanos Muñoz (One of the PAN political party main directors), ended up as a developer, the same as his sons and daughters and I know, because he was my business partner in the 1992 to 1996 era and he was the one who at first promoted the land regularization in Baja.

That is why, you have to be suspect full when you find property titles based on CORETTE (Comision para la Regularizacion de la Tenencia de la Tierra en el Estado) property titles, just remember the legal precept, that no Estate or any authority can give away or sell National Land, only and only the National Land office can do that in the Mexico´s President representation.

Normally in any other part of Mexico, to do the Devil´s test, is a futile act, because Public Notaries have taken care of it, for you the buyer, NOT IN BAJA, here you have to do it yourself, to avoid land problems and disregard any person (Public Notary, Public official or Real Estate Agent) that tell you that in Baja, those things are done in a different way, because Mexico´s constitution is the law in every one of Mexico´s corners, do your own research.

Also do not get involved with CORETT (Comision para la Regularizacion de la Tenencia de la Tierra) titles, because they come from Ejido land, its base, is an Ejido expropriation, but if you at this point know, that no ejido in Baja was executed according to the law, then no ejido land is legal and any expropriation have its original defects, specially the Ejido Mazatlan, that have became masters in stealing from buyers; I would not be fair, if I do not mention that some Ejidos have done a lot to regularize their land and act in a fair way and the only one I know that has been doing that for years is the Primo Tapia ejido near Cantamar.

Particularly be suspect full, if you find at the bottom of the title chain, a ´prescripcion´of any kind, especially the ones based on ´jurisdiccion voluntaria´or ówn will´ because that mean, that you are buying a supposed possession right, that is subjected to give away the property to any real owner that come in the future proving he is the owner, specially the Nation; those are supposed land property titles, issued by local judges, that a judge issue to a person, that without any legal proof or right, come to him and tell him, that he is the known land owner and as proof, he just bring two friends, who tell the judge, that they know for some reason, that he is the owner and the reason may be, that they went to a party there and he told them, that he was the land owner, while nobody they know is the owner; remember that National Land is not subjected to time appropriation, they are not subjected to appropriation by any other authority, even judges, but the National land office and believe me, this is the most usual way, the Baja´s supposed land owners, got their supposed land rights in Baja and specially in Rosarito Beach.

For decades, the rich people in Tijuana, hired attorneys and got this kind of supposed property rights, those attorneys became Public Notaries and judges and are very interested in preserving this state of affairs.

The Public Notaries, Public officials and judges are to blame, because they are obligated by law, to check that the land, is not National Land and they did not do their job according to the law.

When a judge receives a claim for a land property right to be created, based on possession time and his ruling, he is obligated by law, to check if it is not National Land and to legally notify the Federal District attorney, so he can defend the Nation Rights, but in Baja, they just didn´t do it for decades, giving away large portions of National Land against the law, but since national land is not subjected to time limitations or appropriation by any other means, the land, remained National Land and the judges only made futile acts that resulted in the actual situation.

According to the Mexican Constitution, (art.27 main text) the first document that must appear in a title legal chain, is a National Land title, no way around this, does not matter what anybody says about this, no local law can be over the Mexican Constitution, no local judge can give away National Land and as a inescapable consequence, you cannot legally acquire land that is not based on a National Land title.

Also suspect any National Land title issued between 1876 and 1917 because in the Mexican Constitution, those titles are declared reviewable because those were issued by Porfirio Diaz, the Mexican dictator that governed Mexico at that time and issued National Land titles that violated the 1863 law and the same apply to the National Land titles issued in the 1963 to 1969 era.

People invent estrange para legal words, like Moral owners or time owners, but you have to be real legal owner, you are paying for it.

[Edited on 3-28-2011 by ramuma53]

wessongroup - 3-28-2011 at 09:06 AM

Just super information... and discussion of "fact"..... thanks to all ... as it all helps

ramuma53 - 3-28-2011 at 05:48 PM

Mr. Croswhite
Today I received a very aggressive call from Mr. Croswhite from Rosarito Beach number 661 614 6009.
He told me, that his family own, From Rosarito Berach city to Arroyo La Mission since 1879 and was very mad, because American buyers, are asking from him, a National Land Title and told me the Public Notaries and Cadastral authorities are very mad, because I am scaring buyers, now, that business is not exactly well, for developers in the Rosarito area.
He told me that his development, is completely legal, because they are based in an 1879 title, registered as private property and that even Ejido Mazatlan, is based on their titles.

On this thread, I gave the Machado Croswhite family history and how they bought from the Porfirio Diaz Dictator 19,300 Has. In 1879, an area that violate, the then prevailing 1863 law, that forbid the sale of more than 2500 Has. to anybody and to foreigners.
I told, about how the Machado Crosswhite family in 1915 when living in the San Francisco area, sold the land to foreign owned companies and those sales, are registered on the first 21 registries on the Tijuana Public registry.
I told, about how in 1917 the First post Revolution President, Venustiano Carranza, published a decree, that returned to the National property as national Lands, all the lands then in the hands of foreigners and foreign owned companies.
He told me, he is selling Olas Altas to Americans, based on those titles and he did not know about the 1952 National Land declaration that cover that land, while that Presidential decree is published in the National Official newspaper.
He also told me, that he will talk to the Rosarito Beach and Tijuana Majors to stop me from publishing lies.
I am sorry, but I do not see, how publishing facts, that are published in the Official newspaper or the national Land law, is a lie or punishable in any way.
He sounded very upset and menacing, angry to the maximum, but very little informed about the law or history, and that is the kind of people you are buying from, this only exemplify the problem and the kind of people developing those lands, with an absolute ignorance about the land history, based on legal maneuvers, that make them look and appear on the public registry as land owners.
How come people that sold the land in 1915 to a foreign company, is now in possession of papers that make him look like a land owner over national Land.
The only good thing about this, is that it looks like American buyers, are using information to protect their money and avoid receiving land problems that should not be theirs.

bryanmckenzie - 3-28-2011 at 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by burnrope
I built my house on a giant turtle. It's not affected by the tide and I can move to different beach when I want to.


Hmmmm. I like that. I thinkin' kinda like this ...



[Edited on 2011-3-29 by bryanmckenzie]

Woooosh - 3-28-2011 at 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Today I received a very aggressive call from Mr. Croswhite from Rosarito Beach... he is selling Olas Altas to Americans, based on those titles and he did not know about the 1952 National Land declaration that cover that land, while that Presidential decree is published in the National Official newspaper.


Ramuma53- Give Mr. Croswhite a few days for this new truth to settle into his brain. I'm sure that news came as quite a shock to him. Now that he knows this truth, "What will he do differently tomorrow?" is the important question. I don't blame anyone for being confused in this complicated matter, including this man who likely thought his family is the legal owner of what is now National Land. The 1952 National Land Declaration should not have been news to him, but it is- and he is in shock.

Thousands of people (nearly 10,000 views), including journalists are following this thread. Rosarito and Tijuana need legitimate growth through legal sales with absolute security for the investors. Your land title thread has brought this critical topic to the surface, and as you can see- has reached the people it needed to reach. No more Trump Baja's, no more Punta Banda's. There is too much transparency and access to this information on the internet to keep this matter hidden any longer. Get it all out in the open, get the land titles straightened out, let the chips fall where they may- but make Baja a confident place for Americans to invest again. Step by step. It has to be done. If not now, when?

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]

lookingandbuying - 3-28-2011 at 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito
Since we want to learn from other people experience, instead of committing the same mistakes, I will let you know, the True Rosarito Story published by me, on the ABC newspaper and please let me tell you, that every single fact, I mention here, is backed up, by legal documents, that have been tested and sustained already in Federal courts.

Around 1810, there was a Penal colony in San Diego California Mexico and the guys who guarded it, were called the LEATHER JACKETS, whose Captain was a fellow named Don Juan Machado, who made such a good work and impressed so much the territory Governor, that in 1825 the Governor Jose Maria Echendia, gave him for his services, 2 big cattle sites that had about 19,311.61 Hectares in El Rosario, now Rosarito Beach.
As you know, in 1848 California changed from being Mexico to part of the USA and people born in San Diego, was given the chance to say what country they wanted to belong, Mexico or USA and Don Juan Machado with his family became USA citizens.
In 1863, the national Land law, was issued by Mexico´s President Benito Juarez, you can consult that law in a book named ¨5 siglos de Legislacion Agraria de Manuel Fabila ¨ From that law:
Article 2 say, that it was forbidden to any of Mexico´s authorities to give away or sell National Land, specially the Estates governors also that it was forbidden to any person to own more than 2,500 Hectares, also that it was forbidden to any foreigner and Mexican not living in Mexico, to own any property in Mexico.
Article 10 say, that if the person who claimed National Land, did not make use of the land by putting on the land, at least 1 person for each 10 hectares, the title will become void.
Article 27 say, any violation to any article of this law rendered the title void and inexistent.
Then Benito Juarez died, the Second Empire Raised and fell and President Porfirio Dias took power in 1876, ending the chaos and starting the civil government in Mexico.
In 1878, the son of Don Juan Machado, Joaquin Machado Valdez, knowing that his father title was void, claimed the El Rosario Ranch with 19,311 hectares from National Land office, in 1879 the title was issued by the President Porfirio Diaz and the title registered in 1885.
In 1889, a delegate was sent to Rancho El Rosarito owned by Joaquin Machado Valdez, brothers and co proprietors, to check if they had complied with the law, having at least 1 person for each 10 hectares, or at least 1,931 people, they failed for 500 people bringing even children and the failure to complain with the law documented officially.
In 1894, President Porfirio Diaz, issued a new National Land law (Ley de Terrenos Nacionales de Don Wistano Luis Orozco), allowing people to own more than 2,500 hectares of land, but in the exceptions to the law chapter, he say, that you can own as much land you needed, but not more than the amount of land allowed by the Benito Juarez 1863 law.
President Porfirio Diaz did this, to make a joke of a deal, he had made with American companies that were given ½ of the land, they surveyed in Baja California, named Compañias Deslindadoras; the American companies, went ahead and surveyed the whole Baja, expecting to own ½ Baja, but the law didn´t allow them to own more than the 2500 hectares limit, but they didn’t know it and measured the whole Estate, only latter knew of the law prohibition, but by then the Federal government had already the survey works.
In 1910 Mexican Revolution erupted, Civil war everywhere, to try to overthrow the dictator Porfirio Diaz, who had governed Mexico then for 34 years, war went over for 5 years, up to 1915.
In 1915 Porfirio Diaz was almost finished and had to go to France in disgrace and without money.
Then, everybody was commenting that the land limit will remain like in 1863, no more than 2,500 hectares will be allowed and the word went all the way to San Francisco California, where the Machado Family lived away from war, as American citizens.
Joaquin Machado had died as American citizen and is buried that way in California USA.
The then Machado family composed of 11 of Don Joaquin Machado Valdez sons and daughters started to sell the Racho El Rosarito 19,311 Has. In San Francisco, through the Mexican Consul there; they sold it to a Mexican company born in 1915 in Mexicali B.C. named ¨Compañia Explotadora de la Baja California¨whose main stock holder, holding 99.8% of the company stock was a Canada Born person named Danzinger, the 2/10 % was owned by 2 Mexicans and one of them lived in San Diego California, I should add, that they never got a permit to own stock in a Mexican company.
The sales are registered in the number one of Tijuana Public Registry´s book, scriptures number 1 through 19.
In 1916, The named President Carranza, having finished the Revolucion and having overthrown the Dictator Porfirio Diaz, published a presidential decree (Official newspaper May 7, 1917) declaring that all the Baja California Lands, that were in foreigners hands, returned to the national Land dominium and property, like the Hartford Connecticut company, making an example of that company.
In 1917, the new constitution was published by The Mexico´s President Don Venustiano Carranza, and it´s 27 article, it say that all the titles issued between 1876 and 1917 were subjected to revision by the national land office to avoid validate any title that violated the 1863 law.
Knowing that he had just lost all the just acquired land, the Canadian owner of Rancho El Rosarito promptly gave away the El Rosarito Ranch, to his wife, named Daisy Moreno, an Spanish actress, expecting, that nobody will notice she was not a Mexican, with the name being similar to a Mexican name.
As you see, The Rancho El Rosarito´s area violate the 1863 law, making it, and object outside of the law, not fit to be given away by any authority.
The 1894 law, did not validated that sale, and that mean, that the Joaquin Machado Valdez was inexistent, according to the 1863 law article 27 and inexistence in those years, was the fact that the legal act, affected by it, never started to exist, in other words, the Joaquin Machado Valdez title, never started to exist, also, if it ever existed, by violation of the article 10 of the same law, it suffered again of in existence. Simply, there is no way to argue, that that title exist or have any legal effect, after that, but if something else were needed, when the Machado family sold the land to a foreign owned company, it came under the effect of the Venustiano Carranza decree, returning those lands to the National Property, if we want to speculate that at any time, it came out.
I should mention, that when I exposed this information to the COPLADEN official meeting in Tijuana´s Presidential palace, being present at that meeting, the Tijuana Major Hector Osuna (Now Senator) and all of the Tijuana public notaries, one of them, argued that the May 7, 1917 decree was not legitimate, because it was not issued by an elected President; remembering that Venustiano Carranza was named, not elected and under that light, all of the Venustiano Carranza´s acts, would be voided also, but then, I counter argued, that if that was the case, then being all of the Venustiano Carranzas legal acts, voided, then if he was the President that by his act, put in effect the Mexico´s actual constitution, then Mexico would not have an acting Constitution and no law was in effect in Mexico at that time; being that an absurd, everybody accepted the 1917 decree as legal and in effect.
This lecture was also issued at the Tijuana´s Commerce Chamber the next year by me, to all of the public officials and Real Estate agents and public notaries, so nobody can claim not knowing.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by ramuma53]

[Edited on 1-30-2011 by ramuma53]


Hi Sr. Munoz,

I was very interested in your last post about receiving an angry call from a person named Mr. Croswhite. Until this last post you made I had not seen his name mentioned anywhere in your information. The above post you had previously made about "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito" does not mention a Mr. Crosswhite in any of the information.

Can you tell us how and when he fits in to owning land in the area and the history of his involvement?

The one thing I would think is that it would be the EXISTING American owners that are calling around to verify or to check if they have a clear title to their properties versus new people trying to buy a place. This would make much more sense to me as I do not think there exist many buyers currently that are asking about this issue.

Whoever this Mr. Crosswhite is he certainly has a problem if he thinks that by calling the Mayor of Tijuana or Rosarito it is going to help his efforts in trying to keep this issue quiet any longer like has been done in the area in the past. At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers.

In addition to the above many have full printed copies of all the information discussed here. It can not ever be suppressed again by any one no matter how powerful they may be in Mexico.

If you feel comfortable to discuss further how Mr Crosswhite fits in and how he supposedly came to be the owner of all of the land he claims it would be greatly appreciated. I am sure there will be more people that come after him that are angry because of the information that is now out.

If you look at the number of views that this topic has had (last time I looked it was over 9000 views) this subject and topic has much interest. In the 3 pages that they show on this site about subjects or topics that are recently viewed it is in the top 3 or 4 so there in much interest in the information.

As I do not currently own a place I have no need to call and check on the legal status or correct title on a property in Baja. This is not the case for many people and if I was someone that owned a place I would be making a lot of calls to the developer I purchased the place from and the Notario and quite possibly the Title Insurance company to further check things out even though it is after the fact as it is better late than never to determine if you made a mistake.

It is interesting that a man like Mr. Crosswhite that claims to own so much land in the area would not be better informed by his own attorneys and feels compelled to contact and complain to you. I Look forward to hearing back about how/where/when and why Mr. Crosswhite is involved.

Thank-you!

It's Crosthwaite

Dave - 3-28-2011 at 08:21 PM

And the family has "owned" a large parcel at La Mision since the 1860's.

Woooosh - 3-28-2011 at 08:36 PM

There is a BajaNomad thread on this family from 2007: "Irish Rancher in Baja"

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=27481#pid2684...

From BajaBernie on that thread:

Philip Crostwaite came to the beautiful valley of La Mision Baja California in the year 1861. He left his native Dublin, Ireland, in the year 1845 when he shipped out of London, England, on a voyage of adventure to visit his relatives in Philadelphia. He and a new found friend decided to sign on to the schooner Hopewell for what they both thought was a fishing trip out of Newport, Rhode Island, to Newfoundland. It was only after several days at sea that they found themselves being tossed about the in the violent seas at Cape Horn at the southern most tip of South America. They had been duped and were not going fishing—they were heading for San Francisco. Talk about going the wrong way!

When they entered the harbor at San Diego it did not take them more than a minute to decide that they would jump ship and become deserters. Kicking around the docks they found that a ship was pulling out that same day for the east coast—but it only had room for one more passenger. As the story goes Philip turned to his friend and with a great grin exclaimed, “Let’s flip a coin”. They did and Philip lost.

Philip almost immediately became a favorite of all of the young ladies in town. His tall, sturdy Irish build, coupled with his wonderful singing voice and his wide handsome smile captured the hearts of all he met. It wasn’t long before he met and married Josefa Lopez Rosas in 1848. They had many handsome sons and four daughters while he was making a larger and grander name for himself. His Irish gift of gab and his natural ability to lead people saw him become the County Treasurer, Sheriff, and Justice of the Peace. No! Not all at the same time.

His restless spirit caused him to continually seek out new and more interesting challenges. Baja California was a new and interesting place. He made numerous trips looking at land in the Guadalupe and Santo Tomas valleys. No U.S. or Mexican customs officer were on the border. People just wandered back and forth at will. No Tourist Cards, no inspections, nothing. They just crossed at will wherever they wished. There certainly was no waiting going in either direction. And do not forget that he was in a bone jolting old buckboard and had to carry all of his own food and water. No McDonalds on every corner—no corners! Rosarito Beach was still only a twinkle in someone’s eye. Toilet paper had not even been invented! A real rough trip.

Riding along the hills that rimmed the Pacific Ocean at just about where La Fonda’s Hotel in La Mision de La Playa is now located, he turned east and saw a small river flowing out to sea from a beautiful green valley surrounded by craggy low laying mountains. This was it! The place he had been dreaming about for years. In 1861 he purchased, yeah he got to “buy it,” the entire valley and even some grazing land up over the hills in Guadalupe Valley. (There were no restrictions on foreigners owning land. Well, sure I guess a 30-year lease is better than nothing,) He bought the entire San Miguel Rancho lock stock and barrel.

At some point that muddy river became the Crostwaite River. Now, a little over 140 years later, the river seldom if ever is able to break its way out to the sea.

Behind the ranch house the native Indians tended a garden consisting of corn, squash, peppers, beans, potatoes and yams. The cattle provided an ample supply of red meat for the family and all of the neighboring families. They were completely self-contained as far as foodstuffs were concerned. They routinely harvested clams, mussels, abalone, fish and lobster from the sea. Salt was gathered from the ponds in La Salina—just a three-hour ride over the hills.

Josefa and Phillips four daughters and seven sons did an excellent job of populating almost the entire area between Rosarito Beach and Ensenada to the south. Various members of the clan would make the three or four-day trek to San Diego for what manufactured goods and clothing that they could not produce in their valley.

Most of the modern Crostwaites have lost the ability to converse in the native tongue of the gregarious Irishman who started the whole thing. They do still have that wide Irish smile, a gift of gab and blue eyes.

By the time Phillip died in 1903 he had buried his wife, two of his daughters and a grandson. They are all buried in the Crostwaite Family Cemetery on a windy hillside with a view of the Pacific Ocean and the La Mision Valley.

Some of the old timers, like Gus Arrellanes, still remember round ups in the La Mision Valley and the cattle drives south to Ensenada in the late 1930’s and early 40’s. I’m told that these drives, as well as those beginning in the 1860’s, took about the same four to five days before they arrived in Ensenada. There were a few bars, but no Papas and Beers; Hussong’s Cantina was around before the turn of the century. So the cowboys had someplace to wet their whistles after a long dry cattle drive.

Now we don’t even need an excuse to frequent the same bars.

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]

ramuma53 - 3-28-2011 at 08:50 PM

lookingandbuying
I have mentioned early that a man named Joaquin Machado Valdes bought 19,300 Has. and named it Rosarito Ranch, that family is very cross related with the Crosswhite name, both names are very common in the Rosarito area and very often, are the same family; at this time, the Crosswhite claim to be the inheritants of the Joaquin en Juan Machado titles and when you mention the Machado family, usually in Rosarito you are referring to the Crosswhite Machado, or Machado Croswhite family, they are simply the same family since 100 years ago.
As further reference, in 1992, One Mr. Croswhite, came to me and asked me, to help him legalize a land lot, on the other side of the highway, across El Oasis, North of Rosarito, from the Road to Olive Oil Ranch; I checked and found out, that he had problems with Ejido Mazatlan, who were trying to take his land away, using a falsified plan, but as soon as my technical experts tested the plan, we found out, that it was a forgery, because even if the old plan showed a line on top of the Ejido Plan, it had no legal text description, also the land marker they tried to use, the 28B Federal Zone marker, was installed in 1976, while the plan was made in 1947, clearly something impossible that a 1947 plan, show a maker installed 29 years later.
But when he was ready to go to court with the new information, he was caught by the Federal Police for something related to drugs and he just disappeared for several years and the Ejido just took the land away from him.
When he returned, he came back penny less and asked me to help protect another land lot he had just west of the Jersey milk factory, but this time, he was against the Bustamante family and he was just flattened in court, even if he had legal preference to claim the land from the National Land office, because the Bustamante family is one of the wealthiest families in Baja and judges just went their way from the start, he had no chance that time.
Very curious that now Mr. Croswhite is trying to complain to the Tijuana major, whose name is Bustamante, exactly the family that took the land from him and almost surely, the man who took the land from him or his relative.
Maybe they are not the same Mr. Croswhite, but certainly they are related, because all the Croswhite in Rosarito are related among themselves and with the Machados.
Also since he was trying to protect his land, by buying the land from the National Land office, he clearly knew then, that it was National Land, he supposedly acquired though his family, who got it from the old titles and when the foreign company, to whom they sold the land, never came back to occupy the land they bought from them. Looks like I know more about Mr. Croswhite family history than himself.

ramuma53 - 3-28-2011 at 09:41 PM

The Machado Family now the Croswhite Machado family.
First I have to explain that this, in no way, is a disrespect to any family, much less the Machado or Croswhite families, but, history, has no feelings and historical facts are not to shame anyone.
Joaquin Machado was born in San Diego California Mexico, before California became part of the USA in 1849, when California and San Diego became USA territory, both governments offered the inhabitants, a choice to be American or Mexicans and at that time the Machados became American citizens as the smart thing to do, becoming also California Residents and continued living in San Diego but owning land in Rosarito.
When Joaquin Machado Valdez claimed the Rosarito Ranch 19,300 Has. He was USA citizen, California Resident and foreigner by choice and birth.
The family continued to live in California and expanded to the San Francisco area and to this day, the name is common in California also, intermixing with the Croswhite family.
In 1916, they were very well established as American citizens and Mr. Joaquin Machado died as an American, he is buried in California as an American citizen by birth, while his sons and relatives were living in San Francisco, when they got the word that the Mexican Revolution was ending and the new regime, was going to upheld the 1863 law, that prohibited to own more than 2500 Has. While their title, was an illegal issued title, because it violated the 1863 law on 3 law articles, 2, 10 and 23 and that law was to continue being a valid law in the future.
They with that knowledge, promptly went to the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco and through the Mexican Consul, sold in San Francisco, the Rosarito Ranch, to the Company named Cia. Explotadora de la Baja California, owned by the Canadian born, Hugh Francis Collins in 99.8 % of its shares.
The sales are registered in the first 23 registries in the Tijuana public registry, book number one, in other words, they inaugurated the Tijuana Public registry and anybody can check on that one as public information and if they try to hide it, I have a full copy of the first book, where the sales are consigned.
Then as I mentioned earlier, in this thread, in 1917, their worst nightmare came true, the new Mexican President just out of the Revolution, issued on May 7, 1917 a decree that returned to National property, all the lands in Baja, that were being owned by foreigners, but the Machado had just sold the land and were happy to have dumped the property on Hugh Francis Collins, who lost it, but trying to fool the Mexican government, he promptly sold the Rosarito Ranch to his wife, the Spanish actress, Daisy Moreno; and as I know, they did fool many people, because to this day, Moreno and Co, Succesors have been winning court cases against Mexicans who have not bought from the National land office.
About 10 years ago, the Croswhite Machado family, started claims in agrarian Court, arguing that they were the Joaquin Machado Valdes inheritants, but please consider this mathematical facts that make me happy to have studied Physics and Mathematics, when I first started my professional studies:
In 1879, Joaquin Machado Valdes, claimed that he represented the Machado family, consisting on 11 individuals, 1915, there were 13 Joaquin Machado inheritants, but the other 11 Machado´s inheritants must be about 143 individuals by then, with equal rights and that is a geometric progression, that would make that family rights, to be divided equally in to 2028 individuals by 1952 and in to 26,364 equal shares in 1987 and in to 342,732 equal shares in 2022.
Clearly, no one can at this time, prove that he is a Joaquin Machado Valdes inheritant or at least, that he own no more than 1/300,000 of those rights, represented by 19,300 Has. Or 193´000,000 m2 and in a mathematical consequence, they can each own, only 643.3 m2 ,if they were to prove, that they actually are relatives to Joaquin Machado, something very doubtful, because most birth certificates documents, were lost to fires at the end of the Mexico Revolution and may only prove they were American citizens at best.
Sorry for those families, but numbers do not give false statements.

jenny.navarrette - 3-28-2011 at 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers.


You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.

Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.

Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land reverts to National Land.

Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold. They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.

Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.



[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette]

lookingandbuying - 3-29-2011 at 12:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers.


You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.

Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.

Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land reverts to National Land.

Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold. They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.

Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.



[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette]


Right on Jenny,

Of course there are ALL KINDS of legal arguments that can be made. I am NOT assuming to much! When I say it is all out in the open it was more pointing to the issue that hey, there may be a BIG problem here, be careful, take this into consideration. In addition to the information presented here by Rumuna53 there has been information added by Jesse that has to be considered...that being even if you think you have ALL THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE IN HAND you can still be a loser due to the corrupt system that currently exists.

Please feel free to add any other additional valuable information that you have, just like anyone else on this forum has the opportunity to do.

I can tell you one thing, if and when I do buy something down in Mexico I would certainly include issues brought up here and anything else I have found and include them into the decision equation of buying. Maybe a correct price can solve some of these issues?? Or, as someone else said somewhere above it confirms their current position that being a renter is a much better choice under the current circumstances. This is really what phase I am in right now...keep renting and learning. Keep listening, trying to understand, weigh the risks and take into consideration what the price is versus the risk to assess what is the best action to take. I suppose I would also incorporate the legal risk into all of this as I do not want to get involved in problems and prefer to relax at the moment.

What about you? Do you just want to jump in and spend money disregarding information we have learned here? Or, would you take this information discussed into consideration when acquiring a place. What does your magic view say. Do you have anyone to refer people to that can help with good advice when they want to buy a place? Do you currently own a place in Mexico, are you a real estate agent, or do you plan on buying anything?

Yes, when all of this is solved we may be rotting under the earth or have our ashes spread over the mountains or ocean. If by chance I do decide to purchase a place prior to that happening at least I can attempt to make a more informed decision prior to letting the money depart.

So Jenny, I don't think I am assuming too much, at all. In fact I like to see the issue scrubbed and debated to see where people go with it. Sort of like your typical washing machine that works on the basis of agitating the laundry in order to clean it. Maybe we are in the rinse cycle, maybe not? But you know what? I know people that have spent a million dollars on places that currently don't know about anything we have seen here and have no clue of any potential problem they "might" have involved themselves in. Which camp do you want to be in? The one of at least trying to review different perspectives on what the situation is, or those of just being dumb and happy until someone informs them they should not be so happy because of all the problems.

Am I "assuming to much"? Don't think so. Are you assuming too much in regard to my views? I think so. But, I am open minded enough to hear more about what your views are on this subject and anyone elses views too. Parsing one sentence of someones overall comment(s) is a bit misleading.

Have a great evening!!

lookingandbuying - 3-29-2011 at 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers.


You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.

Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.

Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land reverts to National Land.

Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold. They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.

Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.



[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette]


Hi again Jenny,

One other thing came to mind after I posted above. As "part" of your post you state:

"Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land reverts to National Land."

The part about "it will not happen, proving it" is not true as this has already happened in places. Furthermore, where you say the worst that could happen if someone wins a lawsuit is it would just revert to National Land is not entirely correct. Some people have an actual right to the land from a grant issued under the National Land so it would revert to them. And, this is another a BIGGIE where you say if someone did win a lawsuit it would just revert to National Land. This fact alone would be a HUGE problem for an American that bought and fully paid for a place that they THOUGHT they owned!! Then, they find out after paying their hard earned money THEY DON'T OWN ANYTHING as it is owned by the government of Mexico!! I sort of think this would really distress me if I had paid for it.

What am I missing on this point you bring up?

Woooosh - 3-29-2011 at 08:05 AM

As I read this thread, the "BajaNomads golden rule of real estate" keeps playing over in my head "Never invest more money in Baja real estate than you can afford to walk away from". These title issues have been talked about for many years and was one of the reasons Mayor Torres drove the Gringo Gazette out of Rosarito (We have a neighbor who worked at the RBH and they paid him to go around town and steal all the copies). This is one reason our family chose to buy land in an established fracciamiento where Mexicans own the land, waited to get the legal land title, and then built a house. BTW, that is still a good way to buy real estate safely in Rosarito, buy from a Mexican in a Mexican neighborhood.

Also, after reading the Croswaite Irish family history and Ramuma53's legal points- it does not seem all that complicated. The 1952 presidential Land Decree is not ancient history. If this family history is true, and Ramuma53 legal points are correct (and actionable) it is only a matter of time before more Trump Baja and Punta Bandas occur.

The argument that no one has been harmed by maintaining the land title legal status quo is wrong because it ignores what happened to hundreds of American and Canadian retirees who lost their homes in Punta Banda and the $30Million in advance deposits gone at Trump Baja. Bothover land title issues. This is because you have to trust the heirs to these land claims to do the right thing and not all of them have or will in the future. That is why, imho- Rosarito and the developers need to get this all out and the open and the Mexican courts need to make a decision. Only then will there be the transparency and trust investors are looking for. If they don't see Baja as a safe investment, they will continue take their money elsewhere. Or they will buy existing homes and land in established neighborhoods as we did. Nothing wrong with that either and we are very glad we took that approach.

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 3-29-2011 at 08:06 AM

As I read this thread, that BajaNomads golden rule of real estate keeps playing over in my head "Never invest more money in Baja real estate than you can afford to walk away from". These land title and title insurance issues have been talked about for many years and was one of the reasons Mayor Torres drove the Gringo Gazette out of Rosarito (We have a neighbor who worked at the RBH and was paid to go around town and steal all the copies). This is one reason our family chose to buy land in an established fracciamiento where Mexicans own the land, waited to get the legal land title, and then built a house. BTW, that is still a good way to buy real estate safely in Rosarito, buy from a Mexican in a Mexican neighborhood. Even if you live direct oceanfront- there is no guarantees some Mexican bandito won't build a condo tower in front of you on the National Land- just ask my neighbor. It is not just the courts who need to decide who owns what, it is up to SEMARNAT and PROFEPA to enforce land title rights for the beach- and good luck to us all on that one...

Also, after reading the Croswaite Irish family history and Ramuma53's legal points- it does not seem all that complicated. The 1952 presidential Land Decree is not ancient history. If this family history is true, and Ramuma53 legal points are correct (and actionable) it is only a matter of time before more Trump Baja and Punta Bandas occur.

The argument that no one has been harmed by maintaining the land title legal status quo is wrong because it ignores what happened to hundreds of American and Canadian retirees who lost their homes in Punta Banda and the $30Million in advance deposits gone at Trump Baja. Both were land title issues. This is because you have to trust the heirs to these land claims to do the right thing and not all of them have or will in the future. That is why, imho- Rosarito and the developers need to get this out in the open (it already is) and the Mexican courts need to make a decision. Only then will there be the transparency and the trust investors are looking for. If they don't see it as a safe investment, they will continue to invest their money elsewhere. Or they will buy existing homes and land in established neighborhoods, as we did. Nothing wrong with that either.

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]

ramuma53 - 3-29-2011 at 11:28 AM

jenny.navarrette
YOU ARE ASSUMING WAY TOO MUCH. SO FAR YOU HAVE ONLY HEARD THE ONE-SIDED STORY THAT RAMUMA HAS POSTED. THERE HAS BEEN NO REBUTTAL POSTED FROM ANY OPPOSING PARTY. EVEN IF EVERYTHING RAMUMA HAS POSTED IS TRUE, IT DOES NOT MEAN THERE ARE NOT OTHER MITIGATING FACTS AND EVENTS HE HAS NOT DISCUSSED.

Jenney, this is not a one way forum, here people can comment like you are doing and the reason nobody object is because there are absolutely NO legal objections as was exposed in COPLADEN and the Tijuana Commerce Chamber in 1996.
Please post any mitigating event that has not been discussed here.

RAMUMA IS TELLING YOU WHAT LANDS VIOLATED WHAT LAWS AND WHEN. BUT HE IS NOT A JUDGE. THERE ARE LEGAL DEFENSES HE IS NOT DISCUSSING. IF HE SAYS THE JOAQUIN MACHADO VALDEZ LAND GRANT VIOLATED THE LAW IN 1863 BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO FEW PEOPLE ON IT, THAT MEANS NOTHING NOW. SOMETHING HAD TO HAVE BEEN DONE ON A TIMELY BASIS WAY BACK THEN. IF NOBODY OBJECTED, AND LATER PRESIDENT PORFIRIO DIAZ ISSUED AND REGISTERED A TITLE, THEN THERE IS A TITLE. AND THOSE OLD LAWS NO LONGER EXIST, HAVING BEEN SUPERCEDED BY THE CONSTITUTION OF FEBRUARY 5, 1917.

As you say, that there are legal defenses I am not discussing, please tell them here to people so they can see a two sided story.
I am not sayin that Joaquin Machado title violated the law because there were too few people, I am saying that his title violated 3 legal principles that are still to this day in force and the 1917 Constitution just took them from the 1863 law and repeated them.
The title violate the 1863 law in 3 articles, 2, 10 and 27, not just 1.
Article 2 forbid the sale of National Land to foreigners and Joaquin Machado Valdes was a foreigner by birth according to his own choice and as the way he is buried in California, as a USA citizen.
Article 2 forbid the sale of more than 2500 Has and his title was issued for 19,300 Has and that mean the title violated the law that gave it basis and in a consequence, it was affected by inexistence and that in that epoch mean, that the title never started to take effects and I remark, STARTED because that mean, it never gave any right to Joaquin Machado.
Article 2 forbid the sale to Mexicans that lived outside of Mexico and Joaquin Machado Valdes lived in San Diego and later in San Francisco as California Residents.
Article 10 order as a condition that the national Land buyer, put at least 10 people for each 10 Has. Claimed and that mean that he should have had at least 1930 people colonizing the Rosarito Ranch in 1889 and it is documented that he failed to do that and the public official had to waith for months there to allow them to try to reunite the people needed and they failed by a large chunk, failing to comply with the condition.
Article 27 order that in case of any but any violation to any of the law articles would have as a legal consequence the title legal voidance ´nulidad de pleno derecho´that was the inexistence of the original act.
The 1994 national land law issued by Porfirio Diaz, ordered that any title that violated the 1863 law was void, confirming the law and that act was directed to avoid giving most of Baja to Foreign Companies named Compañias Deslindadoras or Surveyor companies and that is the only reason why Baja is to this day part of Mexico, any other way it would be USA territory by now.
So to try to condone a problem now, you create other bigger problems and believe me, the best minds in Baja have tried during 20 years without finding a legal alternative.
In the COPLADEN meeting at the Tijuana Municipal palace, that was presided by the actual Mexico Senator Hector Osuna Jaime, then Tijuana major, they tried to justify the title by taking away the May 7, 1917 Presidential decree validity, saying that President Carranza legal acts were not legal because he wasn’t elected Mexico´s president but named after the Revolution, but I, applying a mathematical method, reduced the issue to absurdity, because if only one of his acts were void for that reason, all of his acts would be void for the same reason and that would be ok, but he with his signature put to work the actual Mexico Constitution and that mean that Mexico has no Constitution and since every law depend on the constitution, Mexico would have no valid law.
So, please before even trying to express legal arguments against the National Land issue, please make a deep legal analysis that assure you, you will not open a worst can of worms, to try to hide a legal fact, that no legal mind has been able to avoid in 20 years since I discovered it.

EVEN IN MEXICO, THE LAW IS THE SAME AS IN THE US. A DOCUMENT, LIKE A RECORDED DEED, IS CONSIDERED VALID UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. IT IS UP TO SOMEBODY TO CHALLENGE IT AND PROVE IT IN COURT. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AND WILL NOT HAPPEN (PROVING IT). THERE IS NOBODY WITH ANY LEGAL STANDING TO CONTEST IT OTHER THAN THE MEXICAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT LAND DATES BACK TO AN 1825 LAND GRANT. EVEN IF SOMEBODY DID WIN A LAWSUIT, IT WOULD JUST MEAN THE LAND REVERTS TO NATIONAL LAND.

Sorry but Mexican law is based on Roman law and you are guilty until you are proved innocent, there you are wrong 100%.
Again, you are talking about issues that you do not know because in 2003, an Agrarian court case was started by the Joaquin Machado Valdes estate against Playa Encantada that is protected by a national Land procedure and the Machado family provided as legal proof the ABC newspaper where I wrote the articles they were mentioning as proof and that act was a big mistake and made the Judge dismiss their case and latter lost in every higher court.
Yes you are right about that the Joaquin Machado has no open court cases, because they lost them all, because they were unable to show that they were even related to Joaquin Machado, much less show a clean line of rights from him to the actual Machados. Those peoples, never wrote a legal will and for what we know, I am more related to Joaquin Machado than any people who actually has the name Machado.
Sorry again, you are wrong, in 1825, the land was given to Don Juan Machado by the then Baja governor Don Jose Maria Echendia, not by the Federal Government, while the then new acting Mexican Constitution forbid to any Estate authority to give away National land and that is why, Joaquin Machado in 1879 asked for a valid title, because he knew he had no valid title.
Then in 1915 his estate SOLD the land to a foreign owned company, THEY SOLD the land, how people still argue that they own anything??? Or inherited something form them, they sold the land and the issue that if the title was good or not is secondary for their cause, because when they sold it, it was no longer theirs; the fact that the may 7, 1917 presidential decree returned the land to national land status, just confirm the National Land property and that confirmation came on Nov. 7, 1952 on the Federal Newspaper. Simply there is no way the Machado or Croswhite family own anything in Rosarito.

RAMUMA IS JUST STIRRING UP THE MUD. HE IS LIKE THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY DON'T OWE ANY TAXES ON THEIR INCOME BECAUSE DOLLARS ARE NOT BACKED BY GOLD. THEY HAVE ALL THESE ELEGANT THEORIES, THAT SOUND GOOD, BUT THEY ALWAYS LOSE IN THE END. HIS ARGUMENTS DON'T HOLD WATER, AS MY COUSIN VINNY WOULD SAY.

Yes, I accept I am stirring up the mud, but if you want to sell to American buyers, you should have a clean house, not avoid stirring up the mud that in fact exist.
This is not an elegant theory, because theories don’t take away houses like in Punta Banda, this an actual severe legal problem that will not go away with time or your efforts to hide it and not stir the mud, it has been done for 20 years and the problem is still here because National land is not subjected to time limitations, not able to be acquired by any other mean but a National Land title and I do not care about any local judge ruling, the Federal law that is upheld today in Mexico say any acquisition outside the law is void. Those are not theories, it is the acting law.

RUMUMA IS JUST USING YOU LIKE SUCKERS TO TRY TO MUSCLE SOMETHING OUT OF SOMEBODY IN ROSARITO.

Well, that is this forum´s beauty, people can judge by their own, who is using who and who is providing useful information, it is not up to me to say but also not for you say, let people judge that for themselves and act according to their own ruling.
I do not live in Rosarito, I have no political aspiration or want to muscle anything out of anybody there, I just want to help people there with actions, not words.

The only time I have muscled anything in Rosarito, was when I put a black eye on Enrique Esquivel Haros, the Ejido Mazatlan´s eternal crook, and caused him to become the first and only Rosarito Beach´s councilmen, with a black eye and a crooked arm and that happened in the Rosarito´s main garden, when he tried to attack one of my technical people during a SRA public hearing.:fire:

So, please Jenny, you sound like a young more educated lady, but you first have to study the issue, for a while, before you can achieve what the big attorneys have not managed in 20 years, to be the new, developers voice and advocate here.

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by ramuma53]

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by ramuma53]

JESSE - 3-29-2011 at 11:39 AM

Ramuma is not just wasting his time here, if hes here investing so much time, its because i bet hes telling someone somewhere that he is a real estate consultant to the american community.

This guy doesn't do anything, if its not helping him steal some land from unfortunate person.

ramuma53 - 3-29-2011 at 11:48 AM

Wooosh
I know how major Hugo Torres Chavert made the Gringo Gazzete go out of town and how he stole the Gringo Gazzete papers, he did the same with ABC, but he have never been able to run it out of town and he was stealing the newspapers because ABC was publishing the True Rosarito History, wrote by me and Gringo Gazete was trying the same, inform the American buyer that standing problems exist in Rosarito and that, it is not honest to be selling million dollar homes there, when they are just passing over the land problems.
I can not condone Major Torres for stealing newspapers, because he was trying to hide a problem with his illegal acts and that act make him a known crook, but we all know how crooked he is.
This only make it clear, how far public officials are prepared to go, to maintain this information secret, to allow them to just contue selling on a time bomb.
When he did that, he commited an illegal act and an attack to Mexico´s constitution and he did that, because he is a developer before a Mexican and now a known crook.

JESSE - 3-29-2011 at 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Wooosh
I know how major Hugo Torres Chavert made the Gringo Gazzete go out of town and how he stole the Gringo Gazzete papers, he did the same with ABC, but he have never been able to run it out of town and he was stealing the newspapers because ABC was publishing the True Rosarito History, wrote by me and Gringo Gazete was trying the same, inform the American buyer that standing problems exist in Rosarito and that, it is not honest to be selling million dollar homes there, when they are just passing over the land problems.
I can not condone Major Torres for stealing newspapers, because he was trying to hide a problem with his illegal acts and that act make him a known crook, but we all know how crooked he is.
This only make it clear, how far public officials are prepared to go, to maintain this information secret, to allow them to just contue selling on a time bomb.
When he did that, he commited an illegal act and an attack to Mexico´s constitution and he did that, because he is a developer before a Mexican and now a known crook.


1.-ABC is NOT a real newspaper, its circulation is so low that is now a "for rent" newsletter than anybody can rent. It has NO credibility.

2.-Hugo Torres enjoys a far better reputation than ramuma will ever have.

3.-Ramuma keeps claiming he wins cases, judges have ruled on his favor, and or the federal goverment is "ready to arrest his victims or make a ruling in his favor". NOT TRUE AT ALL.

What he is really doing here, just as he has done with his ABC newsletter, is badmouthing his victims, trying to scare business away from his victims, and pressuring them into making a settlement with him. Its just the way he operates. In Rosarito he tried to do that with Hugo Torres and others, and FAILED miserably because those people also had money and political power.

He fairs much better against expats who don't have the money or the will to endure the attack of this psycopath.

ramuma53 - 3-29-2011 at 01:10 PM

Jesse the known liar
ABC Estate Newspaper, with whole estate distribution, was mine 50% from 1990 to 2005 when Mrs. Carmen Arreguin died in a car accident and was one of the most read newspapers in Rosarito while I received two journalistic prices for the True Rosarito Story at that time, also because of it, I was nominated as Senate candidate for the 2000 elections and if you were living there, at that time you should have seen my name on the 2000 ballots and that mean, that we had and have credibility and as consequence, you continue to be a known liar.
ABC was started by Blancornelas and later confiscated by the workers union and publicized then and at this very day, by El Mexicano, the most read newspaper in Baja.
Hugo Torres Chavert, has a reputation, but not at all good, just ask the 1000s of merchants that work on the Rosarito beach, or the people who rent horses at the beach, or at the Mercado de Artesanias Benito Juarez or at Mercado Popotla or at El Campito or at Venstiano Carranza town and they will give you the real Rosarito´s people opinion on Hugo Torres Chavert, but I know, you do not know Rosarito´s people, just the people who go to coffee tables at Rosairot Beach Hotel.
Sorry but you are lying again, we won the El Oasis case against the ejido Mazatlan on these legal facts, we won the CFE case against the ejido Mazatlan on the same basis, we won the Castillos del Mar against the Ejido Mazatlan on the National Land basis all the way to the Supreme Court and they have never been able to win over Playa Encantada where they built La Joya del Mar just to be lost in the near future and those are only the big cases.
I won also the case Playa Encantada against the Machado Croswhite in Agrarian Court, then on superior court and that was an historic case that is now a legal precedent.
I have endured in court against the wealthiest people on Baja and against the most politically powerful people, that most of the time are the same people; the Machado estate was backed up by some of the most powerful groups in Baja, Ejido Mazalan has 100s of millions of dollars and have not won a case against me and I think that this fact renew my opinion on you as known liar, but please keep raising good questions.

elgatoloco - 3-29-2011 at 01:48 PM

Machado name sounds familiar. Seems that family once had something to do with the Lopez clan getting kicked out of Campo Lopez after the elder Machado died in the 70's?

As the palapa turns.

JESSE - 3-29-2011 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Jesse the known liar
ABC Estate Newspaper, with whole estate distribution, was mine 50% from 1990 to 2005 when Mrs. Carmen Arreguin died in a car accident and was one of the most read newspapers in Rosarito while I received two journalistic prices for the True Rosarito Story at that time, also because of it, I was nominated as Senate candidate for the 2000 elections and if you were living there, at that time you should have seen my name on the 2000 ballots and that mean, that we had and have credibility and as consequence, you continue to be a known liar.


LOL!!! "whole state distribution"? your newsletter doesn't even circulate broadly around Rosarito, much less in other parts of the state. I haven't even seen an ABC newspaper anywhere in Tijuana since decades ago. Your nomination for the senate was also a scam, you ran for an obscure, unknown, local, no chance of winning whatsoever political party created by the corrupt politicians of that time to divide the oposition (a common practice back then), after it did its work, the "political party" dissapeared. People like you who couldn't really be real politicians in real parties, BOUGHT candidacies in order to bolster their resume. THAT!! mr land rat, is the truth.

Hugo Torres Chavert, has a reputation, but not at all good, just ask the 1000s of merchants that work on the Rosarito beach, or the people who rent horses at the beach, or at the Mercado de Artesanias Benito Juarez or at Mercado Popotla or at El Campito or at Venstiano Carranza town and they will give you the real Rosarito´s people opinion on Hugo Torres Chavert, but I know, you do not know Rosarito´s people, just the people who go to coffee tables at Rosairot Beach Hotel.

I know Rosarito very well, and many of its finest citizens currently in goverment. I won't mention names but their opinions of you are not good at all. You are regarded as a sort of remnant of a corrupt past, that did some pretty big business screwing others.

Sorry but you are lying again, we won the El Oasis case against the ejido Mazatlan on these legal facts, we won the CFE case against the ejido Mazatlan on the same basis, we won the Castillos del Mar against the Ejido Mazatlan on the National Land basis all the way to the Supreme Court and they have never been able to win over Playa Encantada where they built La Joya del Mar just to be lost in the near future and those are only the big cases.

Well, they are still there arent they? the only wins you have are in your little head.

I have endured in court against the wealthiest people on Baja and against the most politically powerful people, that most of the time are the same people; the Machado estate was backed up by some of the most powerful groups in Baja, Ejido Mazalan has 100s of millions of dollars and have not won a case against me and I think that this fact renew my opinion on you as known liar, but please keep raising good questions.

I don't doubt this claim, even the most powerful politicians, and the most powerful business people, think twice about crossing a man working for people with ties to organized crime. Too bad your "crew" is mostly gone, you still have the old tricks to keep you in the game, but your no longer under the umbrella of the rulers of the land.

But anyways, i guess i should take the advice of one politician currently in goverment in Rosarito, that knows you very well:

"no le hagas caso a ese viejo loco raton"

Woooosh - 3-29-2011 at 04:20 PM

Ramuma53. You mentioned a case you won involving the now defunct El Oasis Hotel in Rosarito Beach. There is currently a new spa-condo development called NAOS going up either on, or directly adjacent to that old El Oasis Hotel site between the Tijuana-Ensenada toll road and the ocean. Nomads who know of the NAOS developers say the project is funded legitimately, is a long term investment to benefit Rosarito and Mexico tourism, and they are building other NAOS hotels around Mexico. These condo units are now for sale. Is there any land title information you would provide to prospective investors at NAOS? You have mentioned several projects by name that do or do not have possible land title defects. If there is a "safe" zone for investing in Rosarito beach condos it would help the Sales Team at NAOS to know they are in it. Every positive bit of information regarding land titles helps buyers make an informed choice of which projects and area to invest in.

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]

lookingandbuying - 3-29-2011 at 06:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Ramuma53. You mentioned a case you won involving the now defunct El Oasis Hotel in Rosarito Beach.


A well known Arellano Felix money laundering property.


Good evening all,

At this point in this thread we all here FULLY UNDERSTAND and know (I think?) that Jesse (and some others here) believes, knows, is absolutely sure, has many facts that Rumuna53 is a known drug dealer, scum land grabber thief, general bad guy, not to be trusted, your an idiot if you listen to any of his advice, lousy newspaper person that had a mere rag of a newspaper, and a fraud as a Senate candidate when he ran for office, and hangs around narco bad people, still has a crew of drug dealers he hangs with but they are not really connected anymore and are has-beens currently and also Rumuna53 has no respect from any legitimate business or political person in Rosarito etc. RIGHT?

Well at least I get or got it, so far. And, to protect ourselves and our money if and when we do decide to purchase a home in the area we buy a place from a known established Mexican neighborhood that has not had any problems in the past whether it be a rich or poor Mexican neighborhood.

So, I had asked at some point in time what I thought was a simple question that I have not seen a response to, yet. I could have missed the response? So here goes again:

Does there currently exist a problem throughout the Rosarito corridor on homes/properties that have a big problem of who owns what and why because of a National Land title defect issue- Yes________? or No________?

Now, because of the post of Whoosh above I have another question. Does the development called "Naos" have a defect problem with the title as a result of the National Land title problems that have been discussed here over and over and over?? Yes_______? or No________?

And, does ANYONE (besides Rumuna53) known about any good professional in the area that could help a potential buyer that would possibly like to buy a place in the Rosarito corridor? Sorry if I have offended anyone reading this that lives in an area much further south where these issues may or may not apply.

Thank-you for your time. I hope that I have not missed anything or included anything that is wrong or offended anyone by asking the above questions or burdened them in any other way. Lastly, I hope that I have not "assumed" anything or read to much into anything. If I did offend, assume or burden anyone with my statements above or my questions, my apologies up front.

Have a great evening and hope to hear back. :yes::yes::yes:

jenny.navarrette - 3-29-2011 at 08:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Well at least I get or got it, so far. And, to protect ourselves and our money if and when we do decide to purchase a home in the area we buy a place from a known established Mexican neighborhood that has not had any problems in the past whether it be a rich or poor Mexican neighborhood.

So, I had asked at some point in time what I thought was a simple question that I have not seen a response to, yet. I could have missed the response? So here goes again:

Does there currently exist a problem throughout the Rosarito corridor on homes/properties that have a big problem of who owns what and why because of a National Land title defect issue- Yes________? or No________?


I really don't think you get it at all. Jesse told you the answer and you ignored it.

If you retire in a Mexican neighborhood, you can expect to spend your Golden Years listening to very loud music until the wee hours of the morning most of the time.

You can expect everything that is not tied down and half the things that are tied down to disappear.

Every place in Baja and most of the rest of Mexico has a land problem. The land problem is not the BS ramuma is talking about, it is that there is always going to be some scoundrel, like Ramuma, coming out of nowhere trying to steal your land or get more money out of you by causing you untold headaches, making bogus claims, or just generally screwing with you.

There will always be some government bureaucrat coming around with his hand out because he found "something" wrong with some obscure permit, or tramite, car registration, your last FM3, your dog, your water connection, your electricity connection, or finds no record that you paid the taxes on the salaries of the workers who built your home 8 years ago, or disovers that the amount of predial you paid a few years ago was wrong.

It never ends. Never. There is nothing you can do to protect yourself. Absolutely nothing. There are no documents that will protect you. There are no Mexicans who will stand up for you. You are, after all, a Gringo, slightly more worthy of exploitation and domination than a Nahuatl speaking indio.

Woooosh - 3-29-2011 at 09:53 PM

What would prevent President Calderon from simply issuing a "Land Title Reform Act of 2011" that decreed whoever holds the current title to National land is forever the legitimate owner?

Woooosh - 3-29-2011 at 09:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
It never ends. Never. There is nothing you can do to protect yourself. Absolutely nothing. There are no documents that will protect you. There are no Mexicans who will stand up for you. You are, after all, a Gringo, slightly more worthy of exploitation and domination than a Nahuatl speaking indio.

But the gringo mice have all the cheese and now know where the mousetraps are placed.
:saint:
Mexico is being dragged into reforms at all levels because of the internet age and YouTube transparency. All investors and 20% of Mexican households now have access to high-speed internet. No one is in the dark any more. The old ways of Mexico have already come to an end, but they have not accepted it yet. Mexico must change or it will get no more cheese from the gringo mice they treat with thinly disguised contempt. For Mexico in 2011... change in inevitable, economic growth is optional.

[Edited on 3-30-2011 by Woooosh]

JESSE - 3-29-2011 at 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Well at least I get or got it, so far. And, to protect ourselves and our money if and when we do decide to purchase a home in the area we buy a place from a known established Mexican neighborhood that has not had any problems in the past whether it be a rich or poor Mexican neighborhood.

So, I had asked at some point in time what I thought was a simple question that I have not seen a response to, yet. I could have missed the response? So here goes again:

Does there currently exist a problem throughout the Rosarito corridor on homes/properties that have a big problem of who owns what and why because of a National Land title defect issue- Yes________? or No________?


If you retire in a Mexican neighborhood, you can expect to spend your Golden Years listening to very loud music until the wee hours of the morning most of the time.


What???? theres plenty of middle, upper middle, and wealthy Mexican neighborhoods in Baja. And no, we usually don't have loud music until the wee hours, or lose everything that isn't tied down.:rolleyes:

gnukid - 3-30-2011 at 04:01 AM

Of course, Mexico has more reserves versus debt by percentage than the USA, more people by percentage own their own home and carry less debt, more millionaires than Germany, a better set of core values than the USA and less violent crime than the USA per capita.

But you should list to Jennie/Fulano/Maggie and disregard the facts.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-30-2011 at 04:34 AM

Rafael,

Don't listen to the usual suspect(s) who spew garbage against you. I have yet to see any proof of anything they have put out about you. Continue to march as you have done in providing real estate information to people before they buy in Mexico.

David

jenny.navarrette - 3-30-2011 at 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
What???? theres plenty of middle, upper middle, and wealthy Mexican neighborhoods in Baja. And no, we usually don't have loud music until the wee hours, or lose everything that isn't tied down.:rolleyes:


Oh, were your cats tied down? Why don't you save lookingandnotbuying a lot of time and just tell him where the middle and upper middle class Baja neighborhoods are where you don't have to listen to loud music all night? Be sure to list only those neighborhoods where the real estate titles are secure.

Gonna be a very short list.

Woooosh - 3-30-2011 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
What???? theres plenty of middle, upper middle, and wealthy Mexican neighborhoods in Baja. And no, we usually don't have loud music until the wee hours, or lose everything that isn't tied down.:rolleyes:


Oh, were your cats tied down? Why don't you save lookingandnotbuying a lot of time and just tell him where the middle and upper middle class Baja neighborhoods are where you don't have to listen to loud music all night? Be sure to list only those neighborhoods where the real estate titles are secure.

Gonna be a very short list.

It is a short list for Rosarito indeed, but with only 100 closed real estate sales in 2010, it doesn't need to be a long one to accommodate the few buyers there are. We spent a few years looking for the right location, not months- years. We have a neighborhood mix of doctors, dentists, professors, retirees from several countries, and narcos trying to blend in. I prefer where we landed to the gossipers and whiners in the ex-pat communities- by far. It does take five or six years for people to acknowledge you down here- even your neighbors. I come from a "good fences make good neighbors" mentality anyhow.

The late night music can be loud some nights, but no one gets much rest living at the beach- north or south of the border. The parties, music and property abuse we endured living in Pacific Beach and Mission Beach (San Diego) was far worse than what we endure here in Rosarito. Neighbors can pretty much suck no matter where you live.

The perfect spot?

Dave - 3-30-2011 at 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Gonna be a very short list.


You do realize we're talking Mexico here...

Not Shangri-La.

ramuma53 - 3-31-2011 at 09:40 AM

Woooosh
El Oasis was originally sold to El Oasis, by Roberto Ballin De Leon, he acquired it from Moreno y Cia. Suscesores, the Daisy Moreno estate, they do not have a National Land title, but they in the 1990 were being evicted by Ejido Maztlan and they contacted me and my technical team, we did the Ejido Mazatlan basic documents study and found out that they had a virtual execution, their topographical plans were a bad joke and actually had absolutely no land because their expropriation was against the Machado Family that had actually no land at all.
We proved all those facts in Federal court and won the case in favor of El Oasis, later the ruling was confirmed in Supreme Court.
About that property, even if they are still over National land, they only have to regularize by paying the nation and the property will be absolutely clear, so I don´t think the investors have anything to worry about, they have a supreme court ruling backing up their right.

ramuma53 - 3-31-2011 at 09:46 AM

lookingandbuying

I don´t think Jesse the known liar deserve an answer because he does not provide even the smallest prove of what he say is true.

The answer is YES, there are problems that buyers should be aware and developers and people selling units in Rosarito do not want them to know.

The problems have explodes and the tip of the iceberg is Punta Banda, but there are a lot of problems cooking off at this very minute and buyers should not be in the way.

If you buy in a Mexican neighborhood, that doesn’t mean that Mexicans know something that Americans don’t, actually they are more prone to make mistakes than Americans and Mexican communities are also in problematic areas.

can't stop the music! the beat goes on!

mtgoat666 - 3-31-2011 at 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
What???? theres plenty of middle, upper middle, and wealthy Mexican neighborhoods in Baja. And no, we usually don't have loud music until the wee hours, or lose everything that isn't tied down.:rolleyes:


Oh, were your cats tied down? Why don't you save lookingandnotbuying a lot of time and just tell him where the middle and upper middle class Baja neighborhoods are where you don't have to listen to loud music all night? Be sure to list only those neighborhoods where the real estate titles are secure.

Gonna be a very short list.


just turn off your hearing aids when music gets too loud. are there any nomads young enough to be w/o hearing aids? if you still got your hearing, foam ear plugs are cheap cheap

perhaps you people that hate the noise/proximity/hustle-bustle of communities can find one of those senior housing developments, where they ban kids and all things that might be construed as youthful or fun.
is their a sun city senior community in baja?

[Edited on 3-31-2011 by mtgoat666]

ramuma53 - 3-31-2011 at 10:20 AM

Whoooosh
What would prevent President Calderon from simply issuing a "Land Title Reform Act of 2011" that decreed whoever holds the current title to National land is forever the legitimate owner?
The answer is simple – The Law.
National Land law forbid presidents also to give away land but they can claim a public benefit and do it, the only problem would be to prove the public benefit when you are giving away land to developers who are selling million dollar houses.
The simple solution would be to return the National Land commission and regularize the whole area lot by lot, but National Land law order that no National Land should be sold at less than cadastral value and since Baja Congress gave an extremely high values to the Rosarito Area, the prices to pay the nation would be high, but we don´t see any legal way around.
Sorry for Rosarito but if they had done it in the 1990 era, they would have paid one peso per square meter, now the price is lot bigger, but it is Baja congress act.
To be in a Mexicans owned neighborhood don’t put you in a safe place, because the Mexican neighborhoods have the same problem if their ownership has as foundation, the Machado title or the Ejido Mazatlan that comes from the Machado mistake or from Moreno and cia Sucesores that comes from the Machado also.
I want all of you to observe the ferocity the Rosarito developer’s advocates use to try to convince you to not listening to a problem they cannot deny.
Jesse cannot prove anything he say, he has a ferocity that is almost fanatic and that show a motivation that he does not expose. Jenny is not uncovering her fanatic nature also and is clearly another advocate, but both have something in common; they cannot refute the problem existence and also give contradictory information and false or unsafe advice.
I will keep waiting for anyone to provide legal sound and logic evidence that anything said here does not constitute a problem to prospective buyers.
We should not loose from sight that what we want here is to provide information about a problem that American buyers should not buy in.
To know what place is safe my advice continues to be:
1.- CHECK THAT THE FIRST DOCUMENT IN THE TITLE CHAIN IS A NATIONAL LAND TITLE.
2.- DO NOT BUY FROM MACHADO RIGHTS OR WHEN MACHADO RIGHTS ARE THE BASE FOR PROPERTY.
3.- DO NOT BUY FROM MACHADO LEGAL CONSEQUENCES LIKE EJIDO MAZATLAN.
4.- DO NOT BUY FROM PRESCRIPCIONES OR POSSESSIONS TURNED IN TO PROPERTY ACQUIRED BY TIME, ISSUED BY LOCAL JUDGES.
If you follow those simple instructions, you will be safe, if you don´t, you will have problems, it is like the Art of War instructions, no way around it. It is up to you to understand it.

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