We've maybe been here before but I don't remember and I need to replace my Chevy Suburban 4x4 (Heavy Vehicle) tires ASAP. We drive a lot on Baja
barkroads and I know I need more than 4-ply and something gutsy. Any suggesstions???
[Edited on 8-21-2004 by Mike Humfreville]
BFG AT's
jrbaja - 8-21-2004 at 02:35 PM
are what has gotten that 2 wd van of mine over almost every road in Baja. And, there are dealers all over Baja to honor the warranty if you have a
problem with one.
Right around $125.00 each plus $35. for the extended warranty.
Herb is experimenting with another brand so perhaps we shall hear from him with a report on those as well.David K - 8-21-2004 at 06:36 PM
Look at the Mud Terrains from BFG (Michelin) as well... Bajaboy Zac swears by them... NEVER a flat... and you need that Mike (because we all know you
never have a jack or lug wrench on board)!!
If the price shocks you, then check out the Futura tires at Pep Boys (made by U.S. tire mfg. Cooper)... about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the French tires
and a 50k mile warantee. They also have a Mud Terrain look alike. Bedman turned me onto them... I went to Discount Tires for BFGs and at $160 each, I
went for the Cooper made Futura Dakotas at $60 each!!! Yes, they wore faster than BFGs, but when I replaced them at 25k, the new ones were only $30
each (half life waranteed)! That is for the 16" ones my Tacoma uses.
I'm just soooooo proud
Debra - 8-21-2004 at 06:41 PM
that Mike is thinking about tires at all! (let's see if he actually puts some on Vaca Blanca?) bajaloco - 8-21-2004 at 06:47 PM
The BFG Mud Terrains are great but they don't wear near as well as the All Terrains. I run them on my truck, which is also heavy, and I could not be
happier. Check out the prices at America's Tire store. They were the best price and offer free rotation and a good road hazard warranty.
What I omitted was...
Mike Humfreville - 8-21-2004 at 07:01 PM
Number of plys. On our Cherokee 4X4 I kept getting flats so when we replaced them I went to our friendly small town tire guy in oilfield country. He
recommended what all the back country oil workers buy. I don't remember the brandname but they're indistructable.
And as for you wiseguys that think I get a lot of flats, read this: My Isuzu Trooper hasn't had a flat in a year and a half. And it's been in Baja
that entire time. Not a single flat. Read that and weep,!!!
The was the time a couple of years back where El Camote and Amo Pescar had to come back for us from Gonzaga with no jack...
I am a perfectionist! Thanks for the advice.Debra - 8-21-2004 at 07:08 PM
My Oh, MY........
Yes, I stand corrected! The Trooper hasn't had a flat in a year and a half! (wait?! are you sure?) since she hasn't moved from "Rice and Beans" since
then, she may be all "out of hot air!"
there is that...
Mike Humfreville - 8-21-2004 at 07:21 PM
But there's more than one source for hot air around here!
Off-subject but noteworthy, I did call Ricardo several days back. I told him we'd be down in October. He acted like we had talked to him yesterday.
Very nice and respectable fellow.
So these BFG AT's come in more than 4-ply?Neal Johns - 8-21-2004 at 07:23 PM
Walmart quoted me $111 plus $10 for mounting, balance and road hazard warrantee plus #xx for taxes for size 32 x 11:50 x 15. BFG All Terrain T/A KOs.
Special order, not in stock.
Best Tires for Suburan 4 x 4 in Baja Dirt
mcgyver - 8-21-2004 at 08:36 PM
Neal , How come you are not running 16" tires?New truck take offs are cheap here ,whells and all for $150. They told me that Chevy 16"would fit toyota
Tacaoma's.
Mike I ran Goodyear Unisteel load rage D on mine, thats what UPS runs on its delivery trucks, 16.5 is the smallest they make though, wish they did
make a 16".surfer jim - 8-21-2004 at 10:15 PM
Maybe next he will ask for advice on AIR FILTERS
Surfer Jim,
Mike Humfreville - 8-21-2004 at 11:03 PM
I had forgotten about that bad afternoon on Shell Beach when I held you all up because of that dirty...filter. But after we beat it up to get the
dirt out of it and put it back in use, I somehow forgot about it. For a while anyway. A couple of months ago, a year after our great trip, I had to
take my Suburban into Daniel Chavez (our favorite mechanic of Mexican heritage in Santa Paula) because the car was not firing properly.
I walked home from his tiny shop and got a ride back several hours later to see what he'd found wrong.
It was nothing mechanical and he didn't charge me a dime. He waved the same old air filter, that you-all had found problematic in Baja, in the air
and slapped it against his leg. Another pound or two of Baja dust found it's way to Southern California. He replaced the old with a new filter for
free.
I am a dude that's into high maintenance, but is usually late in a party evening when my mind starts working overtime. It certainly has nothing to do
with my proper care and feeding of our equipment.David K - 8-21-2004 at 11:23 PM
Mike, buy that mechanic a BOX of wine!
I think I shook a KILO of Baja dust out of your filter that day... Perhaps a satellite image of the gulf, off Shell Island, will reveal the
contamination caused when the tide came in and devoured that pile of dust!Taco de Baja - 8-22-2004 at 08:28 AM
Go with the BFG AT's. They are quiet on the road, give good traction off road, and last longer than the MT's. I usually get 60,000+ miles on a set. I
do sometimes get flats with them, but probably would have gotten it with any tire. According to the side wall they have:
3 poly 2 steel tread
3 poly sidewall
look at other tires, most have only 2 ply sidewalls.
With larger rims (16+) you may be able to find tires with steel sidewalls, I know my dad used swear by the Michelin truck tire with the steel
sidewalls for Baja driving. But they may not be made anymore....
Mike's Air Filter
Bob H - 8-22-2004 at 08:49 AM
I was there... a witness to it all... I only wish I had made a photo of David slapping all of that soot outta that air filter. It was amazing.
Mike, you do not need to apologize for holding us up..... it made for a great Baja memory that all of us will never forget.
Bob H
[Edited on 8-22-2004 by Bob H]bufeo - 8-22-2004 at 09:12 PM
Mike,
I'll add a "Ditto" for the BFG ATs. We put a bunch of miles on them in Baja on the '99 Sub and had them on the '02 Silverado. Served us well, and
I'm a stickler for airing-down, airing-up. Never a problem, except for a nail in one that held up after a plug.
BTW, Mike, we no longer live in the SYV. We've moved over to mile-high AZ. Nicer air, and hours closer to PB.
Thanks for the info, again.
Mike Humfreville - 8-22-2004 at 09:18 PM
It seems everyone likes BFG AT's. What about Michlin LTX AT's? These are 10 ply @$160.00 ea.
Bufeo, Sorry to hear you are no longer in our neighborhood but we hope all goes well in AZ. I hope all's well in PB. We still haven't settled on
Bahia de Los Angeles but will be working toward it in Late September-early October.
This is a good thread
jrbaja - 8-22-2004 at 09:29 PM
and Mike, don't rush into anything until we hear about them all. I love the BFG's BUT, when they are half worn, there is a big difference in traction
when you need it.
Herb is the one that pointed it out to me and it's true. That's why he is trying something new. And he has a LOT of "off road time".
The AT's have come back from trips with Cholla covering the sidewalls with no problem or punctures and the only problem I have ever had with them is
not airing down.
But, I am certainly interested in something better if there is!
Because JR has mentioned it twice now...
Herb - 8-23-2004 at 01:07 AM
I'll chime in with some feedback. I am now running the Bridgestone AT Revo's based on feedback from Doug, The Tire Rack and some Xterra message
boards. I have only had them for about 7 weeks but have put over 7,000 miles on them. They have been all over Baja, the Sierra Nevada and Northern
California's Coastal Mountains. The terrain has included rocks, mud, deep sand, river crossings, etc. The only thing I haven't tried them in yet is
snow, which is where they seem to get rave reviews from others that far exceed any other AT type tire.
So far, the one weakness I have seen vs. the BFG AT's (which I had before) is that they tend to slide more on heavy rocky gravel. I have 4 wheel
drive, though, and just find myself engaging it more often to maintain control at higher speeds on these types of roads. Of course, this description
fits most of Baja's unpaved roads.
The Bridgestones, however, have shown much better traction on slick rock and in sand and shallow mud. The tread design (and other people's feedback)
would sugeest that they would also do better than the BFG's on rain slick roads. They are very aggressively siped which would also explain why other
reviewers rave about them in snow. I was concerned that this would lead to me loosing chunks in Baja's boulder sized sharp gravel/rock roads, but so
far this has not happened. Finally, I also get much better gas mileage witht he Bridgestones (3 mpg more) which is important to me because my
Baja/Backcountry rig is also my daily commuter and I drive all over SoCal for work.
I wouldn't tell you necessarily that this would be the tire for you, Mike. You'd have to look at the information provided and decide for yourself. If
all I drove was Baja's dirt roads, I'd still be up in the air about whether I made the right choice. But, given the variety of terrain that I travel,
I believe the Bridgestones suit my needs quite nicely.
Oh, and one more thing. After the tread was half worn on my BFG's, not only did I loose traction, but I was getting fairly regular flats on pavement.
The Bridgestones come with a 50,000 mile treadwear warranty at no extra cost. On top of that, Bridgestone gives you a 30 day test drive. If you don't
like'm in the first month, you can take'm back!
I'm sold, for now!
[Edited on 8-23-2004 by Herb]4baja - 8-23-2004 at 07:21 AM
my BFGs are great but check out kelly safaries too mike, i have never had a flat or problem with them . will be in BOLA in oct. for a birthday bash so
come by if your around.bufeo - 8-23-2004 at 08:11 AM
I agree with the criticisms re: loss of traction on the BFGs when tread gets low, but that rarely is a consideration for me.
We do so much off-highway travel (Last year alone we made 15 round trips over the San Felipe-Punta Bufeo route. That's 1650 miles of
thaaat road, and doesn't count the dirt miles during our summer trips.) Our tires spend so much time at lower pressures trhat we purchase
new ones long before the tread is low enough to be a problem. The sidewalls (even the 3-ply) take such a beating that I simply don't take chances.
It's one of those travel costs that is minimal in the whole scheme of things.
Mike, we've used the Michelin LTX ATs, and they're fine. I believe that they are quieter on pavement at speed and they lasted well. I chose the BFGs
because of the more agressive tread pattern and the 3-ply sidewalls.
Mike... just look at that tire!
Bob H - 8-23-2004 at 09:02 AM
This is what I will buy when my factory set of tires wears out... well, even BEFORE they wear out. Bob H Neal Johns - 8-23-2004 at 09:27 AM
If you buy 10 ply tires, they will have little sidewall flex and ride hard of washboard even when aired down. This can cause things to fall off like
bumpers and stuff.
Neal...
Mike Humfreville - 8-23-2004 at 10:03 AM
Don't sweat the small stuff. Once we were traversing the peninsula on Hwy 3 (Ensenada - San Felipe) before they paved it and we lost an entire roof
rack.
What's a bumper all about???
Good to hear you're getting some well-deserved competition (off the Baja Cactus thread). Wish we could have been there.Debra - 8-23-2004 at 12:21 PM
Thanks everyone, Herb....
I didn't know that putting the rig in 4W would help with the control on the rock roads, (I hate that 'hydroplaning feeling) I wondered about airing
down, but was afraid that would make the tires more venerable to the rocks. I would really appreciate everyone's advice on this. And what tire
pressure would be recommended for say, the road from Bahia to Camp Gecko.
Hey Herb
Bob H - 8-23-2004 at 12:57 PM
Does that Bridgstone look like this? I cannot find any Bridgestone A/T Revo tires on the internet.
Bob HTMW - 8-23-2004 at 05:35 PM
I've run BFG TA KOs, Rememington Wide Brute and Cooper with good luck. The one thing is don't wait for the tread to get low. The sharp rocks in Baja
are not kind to any tire, especially those going bald. Personally I would recommend going to the next size larger in tires and run less air pressure.
The larger footprint makes a big difference. That is provided you have the wheel well clearance for them.
I run LT285/75R16 on my 91 chevy and the 04 GMC Z71. The chevy I had to cut in three places about 8 inches long the top outer edge of the fender well
and fold it up. The GMC was OK in stock condition. With the LT265 tires I ran 45-50 psi up front airing down as necessary off road. The rear depended
on the load and varied from 30 unloaded to 45 loaded. With the LT285 I run 40 front and rear loaded (30 rear unloaded). I have noticed much better
traction in sand without letting air out. Last June I did have to air down to 30 psi in the soft sand at San Rafael.
Just a side note on airing down in sand. During the San Felipe 250 race last year I was helping Mike Doherty class 8. He broke one of his rear axles
about 90 miles into the race. After he got stuck a couple of time we aired all four tires down to about 8 psi and one was 4psi (we got carried away).
He raced another 100 miles in deep sand areas before getting stuck and timing out at the end of Matomi wash, he stopped because of a stuck car in
front of him and couldn't get going again. Anyway looking at the BFG 37x12.50 race tires, they looked like no air had been let out. But the traction
in sand was amazing. He just had trouble turning the truck with one wheel drive.Neal Johns - 8-23-2004 at 07:37 PM
Debra, go down to 20 -25 PSI for that washboard. With 25, you need not air down on pavement until you can do it easly.
Thanks Neal.....
Debra - 8-23-2004 at 08:07 PM
I don't seem to get most of the guys to understand that I'm really wanting to learn about this.., I'm by myself mostly, so I NEED TO LEARN, Thanks!
David K - 8-23-2004 at 08:16 PM
Debra, putting your rig into 4WD on gravel, washboard, or wet paved roads makes a word of difference!!! If you have push button, shift on the fly,
auto locking hubs, 4WD, then it is a sinch and you will feel like you are in control of the road instead of the road controlling you. Debra - 8-23-2004 at 08:23 PM
Thanks David.....I do have "shift on the fly" I just need some expert guidence on how to use it.....I'm learning.....
You Guy's are WAY off Base!
Mike Humfreville - 8-23-2004 at 08:50 PM
Debra doesn't need to air down in the dirt and she CERTAINLY doesn't need 4WD on wet pavement. I can see, though, that she might need 4WD in deep
sand.
There is a very good reason for this: Deb's driving is unique!
Her TOP speed south of the border on dry asphalt is 40 (usually that's MPH but occasionally it's KPH).
As for dirt driving, unless the road is pure crap and upjutting jagged stone, its crushed-rock gravel washboard. I know from personal experience that
she is a VERY conservative driver and will HAVE NO PROBLEMS on washboard.
Most of us drive fast enough that our fully-inflated tires actually launch, if only for a millisecond, when reaching the top of each washboard ripple.
When this occurs we let a little air out, pop-a-top, fart and roar off down the road. With Deb, on the other hand, her tires gently caress each tiny
washboard whoop-de-do and lovingly drop into the downslope on the next dirt wavelet. The rattling vibrations that most of us enjoy while driving the
Bahia-to-Gecko 4 nasty dirt miles at 40-60 MPH Debra will never notice; she?ll never experience a skip on her portable and operating CD player,
sitting unsecured on the front seat of her (AS YET UN-NAMED) new truck traveling that same road at 100 meters/minute.
Not to worry, friends!!!
David K - 8-23-2004 at 09:01 PM
Ohhh jeeez Mike, I am laughing so hard tears are in my eyes! Maybe because you both are my dear friends and I know you are really exaggerating,
(aren't you?).
It is true that Debra was driving fast enough that a loose battery terminal actually detached... after 20 miles that is...
Really, in her 4Runner I know she is driving much faster than the T Bird. In fact she freaked me out driving through the lagoon water at Las
Animas!
"Mom, why are your crying?"
Debra - 8-23-2004 at 09:06 PM
"I'm not crying Brendan, I laughing!" Mike is being a S$%T to Mom", "Oh, Tell Mike I said "Hi"......
Of Course I'm Kidding...
Mike Humfreville - 8-23-2004 at 09:14 PM
I'm just getting back at Deb's comments about the various cascases of my vehicles being scattered around Baja.
I'll have you know I am a high maintenance dude. I take good care of everything. Here's a current example: just tonight Mary Ann and I were having a
discussion and I found a small error that had nothing to do with the main point of discussion. But I knew it would drive her nuts if I kept hitting
on that inconsequential point so I did it. On the 4th time, MA ran screaming from the living room and locked herself in the closet for the rest of
the night (so far at least)! Now, tell me I'm not a high maintenance guy! I take the very best care of everything.
But if Deb's battery strap came loose I will propose to you that her driving was so tedious that one of the cinchdown wing-nuts fell asleep and lost
track!!
Mike, you know that I hate you don't you?
Debra - 8-23-2004 at 09:25 PM
And...BTW: I'll have you know! (I'll admit here, it scared the crap out of me!) My (unnamed as yet 4Runner) was running so dang good that I found
myself doing 80mph (not Kph!) down Mex 1.....yikes!, of course I was in a hurry, I had Clam Chowder to make and I WAS 5 DAYS LATE!....I have to tell
you , that thing corners so well (doesn't feel top heavy like the Trooper...and doesn't feel low heavy like the T-Bird) I tend (I know you don't
believe this Mike) to drive way toooo fast,.....I keep reminding myself of that Mexican family (2yr. old standing in the car!) that I
"dusted".....WITH SERIOUS ROCKS! Yikes!....as you once said, "I drive knowing that there is nothing around the next curve, Debra drives knowing that
something might be around the curve".......And I keep getting in the car with you, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT? LOL!
[Edited on 8-24-2004 by Debra]
Concur with Herb on the BFG AT TA's......
Hook - 8-25-2004 at 01:19 PM
......tendency towards flats. My buddies who would travel the backroads of Baja and the highways of Borrego noticed this, too. One guys got three
flats in the space of two month. TWO were on the same road trip to Borrego. BFG refused to declare them as defective in manufacturing even though they
had split between the treads with no visible external cause. I never got flats on my Desert Duelers.
Trying the Frenchy LTX-MS right now. Xlnt durability so far but the 10 plys are stiff. That's the price you pay for the weight I must carry.
As far as the flats go
jrbaja - 8-25-2004 at 01:54 PM
I have made about 8 trips throughout the entire peninsula on the worst of roads including many that weren't roads at all.
This is all in a 2 wd van that was generally loaded down a LOT. The only flat I ever had was because I didn't air down and cut it with a rock. My
fault for sure.
Also, I have been fishtailing severely at night coming north after dropping the rear end off a ledge. I give a lot of thanks to my tires for
surviving that one!
BajaNomad - 8-25-2004 at 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
The only flat I ever had was because I didn't air down and cut it with a rock. My fault for sure.
That's the
only way I've gotten flats with the Desert Duelers... my fault as well. When aired down properly, they've been the best I've used. Never a problem.
I've blown out the sidewall more than once when using BFG All-Terrain TAs though, as well as the stock Goodyears that came with my
Tacoma (load range B Wranglers.... ick).
--
Doug
BajaNomad - 8-25-2004 at 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Does that Bridgstone look like this? I cannot find any Bridgestone A/T Revo tires on the internet.
Bob H
Since we are ripping the ultimate Baja tire theory a bit... Amo Pescar had just installed brand new BFG All Terrains on his camper for our trip in
April, 2001... We had a sidewall puncture on a sandy road! It was between Desengano and Tinaja de Yubay... http://vivabaja.com/401 for pics of that trip.
Since ALL tires can get a flat, why buy the most expensive ones?
Neal Johns: in another thread you mentioned Tru-Tracs (the ULTIMATE Baja tire of the 1970's). I bought mine at Dick Cepek's in El Cajon for my Jeep
Cherokee Chief. They were great!!! Made by Armstrong Tire Co. who also made the Norseman tires for smaller rigs. think they eventually became Dick
Cepek brand tires and I see them adverised by places that also sell Mickey Thompson tires... Two Baja legends of the past (Dick and Mickey).
Best tires ETc.
mcgyver - 8-25-2004 at 05:21 PM
jrbaja, If you feel the rear end is squirley ,check the long bolts through the center of the leaves of the springs, I had both of them break and it
caused swerving all the time ,not just at night. If your shackle bolts are not torked to specfications it will cause this also.
