BajaNomad - Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

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elbeau - 3-11-2011 at 06:07 PM

DK just heard back from TW...

Sadly, his initial report is that all we're looking at is rocks and brush. He apparently too 26 photos of the site, which will be nice to help me understand what I'm actually looking at compared to what I thought I was looking at...and perhaps avoid the necessity of that CAT scan I feel like I might need.

Apparently the feature that I called the "Stone Corral" was about 100' above the arroyo basin and not easily accessible (which would obviously make it a hard sell as a corral), and the site I was calling the "Mission Site" is simply two ravines coming together with rocks and brush.

TW, I do hope the trip was still fun and not burdensome. You have my sincere apology if you feel like I led you on. It really wasn't my intent. You definitely lived up to your status as a Baha Nomad and for that I salute you.

Thanks, and please forward the photos at your earliest convenience.

surfer jim - 3-11-2011 at 06:49 PM

So this story won't end now (it has been an interesting topic)......MAYBE he did find something (gold...treasure...who can say) and is coming back with a bigger vehicle to haul all the loot out.... :bounce:

Bajatripper - 3-13-2011 at 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
So this story won't end now (it has been an interesting topic)......MAYBE he did find something (gold...treasure...who can say) and is coming back with a bigger vehicle to haul all the loot out.... :bounce:

You may be right, but we'll never hear about it! :lol:

TMW - 3-14-2011 at 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau
DK just heard back from TW...

Sadly, his initial report is that all we're looking at is rocks and brush. He apparently too 26 photos of the site, which will be nice to help me understand what I'm actually looking at compared to what I thought I was looking at...and perhaps avoid the necessity of that CAT scan I feel like I might need.

Apparently the feature that I called the "Stone Corral" was about 100' above the arroyo basin and not easily accessible (which would obviously make it a hard sell as a corral), and the site I was calling the "Mission Site" is simply two ravines coming together with rocks and brush.

TW, I do hope the trip was still fun and not burdensome. You have my sincere apology if you feel like I led you on. It really wasn't my intent. You definitely lived up to your status as a Baha Nomad and for that I salute you.

Thanks, and please forward the photos at your earliest convenience.

Bill and I walked about 4 miles down the El Volcan wash to the site area of the corral and site A and B of the steps and caves. We did not see any caves and the steps were actaully gullies where the water ran off and down to the arroyo. The corral area is on top of the east side of the wash and the wall up to it is maybe 100 feet straight up, there is a gullie at the north end.

I'm in San Diego now nad will do a more full report when I get home tomorrow or the next day. Pixs follow. I took 27 pixs and Bill took about the same on his digital camera. I'll post some and email all of them to DK and elbeau or anyone else interested. Basically lots of cactus and rocks, no sign of any man made structures etc.

It was a very intersting trip. We spent two hours hiking in stopping to take GPS readings and 1.5 hours coming out and about three hours on site looking around and taking pictures. The walls of the wash are very steep and we were able to climb only the west side at the second cave area across from the corral. Actually we had a pretty good time and wished we had gotten there sooner to have more day light to look around more. Got back to the truck at about 6pm just before dark.

David K - 3-14-2011 at 07:42 AM

Looking forward to hearing more about your entire trip Tom! Thank you...

wilderone - 3-14-2011 at 08:33 AM

The whole inquiry, search and findings were very intriguing. Looking forward to the pix to see how a google image compares with on-the-ground reality. From the original images, I thought sure the "steps" were "something".
As a sidenote, are the flowers blooming all over?

elbeau - 3-14-2011 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Keep the thread alive? Sure.

...but perhaps with even less credibility than I started with before.

Of course, I'm having my doubts about my Google Earth Archaeology skills, but what the heck...here's another site. I call this one the "Hydro" structure. Why Hydro? I dunno, I can't exactly tell you what it is or isn't, but whatever it is, it's in the middle of the arroyo so I'm calling it the Hydro structure.

Of course, it does resemble E.T.'s spacecraft, so maybe I should change the name.

Also, please notice the area of raised land coming in from the adjoining water channel. To me this seems really strange. Of course, you might expect to have sediment build up at the base of a channel like this, but I don't think it should naturally build up the way it appears to be.

Anyways, have fun:

The Raw Area:

A Few General Descriptions:

More Details:

And of course, the KML file so you can look at it in Google Earth yourself:

Hydro KML File

mtgoat666 - 3-14-2011 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

Keep the thread alive? Sure.

...but perhaps with even less credibility than I started with before.

Of course, I'm having my doubts about my Google Earth Archaeology skills, but what the heck...here's another site. I call this one the "Hydro" structure. Why Hydro? I dunno, I can't exactly tell you what it is or isn't, but whatever it is, it's in the middle of the arroyo so I'm calling it the Hydro structure.

Also, please notice the area of raised land coming in from the adjoining water channel. To me this seems really strange. Of course, you might expect to have sediment build up at the base of a channel like this, but I don't think it should naturally build up the way it appears to be.

Anyways, have fun:

i dunno elbow. i am doubting your analytical and critical thinking skills.
i do know you have low testosterone,... because any healthy man can easily see 2 large breasts in that photo!

elbeau - 3-14-2011 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

i do know you have low testosterone,... because any healthy man can easily see 2 large breasts in that photo!

I live with my wife and four daughters...there's just not much room left for testosterone anymore :no:

David K - 3-14-2011 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

i do know you have low testosterone,... because any healthy man can easily see 2 large breasts in that photo!

I live with my wife and four daughters...there's just not much room left for testosterone anymore :no:

FIRST PHOTOS FROM TW

David K - 3-15-2011 at 09:33 AM

TW sent 5 photos so far, all from his friend Bill's camera.

They are numbered 6-10...

"Pix 6 and 7 show the wall up to the corral from the wash. I and Bill are in the pix for height reference."

#7

"Pix 8 and 9 shows the north end of the previous wall where there is a gully."

#9

"Pix 10 is the gully (stairs) at the northern cave."

#10

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking forward to the rest at the site TW!!

photo analyses

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2011 at 10:10 AM

if you free yourself of all inhibitions and preconceived notions, you can see a leprechaun behind the big rock on the left (and i swear that i see elvis and a naked donald rumsfeld hiding behind that big cardon on the upper slope.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
TW sent 5 photos so far, all from his friend Bill's camera.

They are numbered 6-10...

"Pix 6 and 7 show the wall up to the corral from the wash. I and Bill are in the pix for height reference."

mcfez - 3-15-2011 at 10:18 AM

Thanks TW and DavidK for spending your time researching this. There was a thrill for a minute, I admit.

David K - 3-15-2011 at 10:38 AM

Well... it will be even more interesting when we see the photos of the site above #10... TW told me they hiked up there to where elbeau sees arches, fountains, and the mission building.

TMW - 3-15-2011 at 12:17 PM

DK I should have them tomorrow, they are in my camera. You should have all 20 now. Let me know if your missing any.

David K - 3-15-2011 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
DK I should have them tomorrow, they are in my camera. You should have all 20 now. Let me know if your missing any.

Hi Tom,

Yes... I just downloaded them all and now will post with your captions... Thank you very much... and I am sure elbeau appreciates it as well!

PHOTOS #1-5 sent from TW

David K - 3-15-2011 at 12:24 PM

Pix 1 truck parked just around the bend from the road crossing the wash. We're at 29-59-56x114-46-06 on Google Earth. Rocks prevented from going further.

#1

Pix 2 a road or walk or ???? found on the way, maybe 2/3 of the way on left going in. Didn't get a GPS on it.

#2

Pix 3 Looking at east side of wash at corral area.

#3

Pix 4 Same with Bill.

#4

Pix 5 Same view from further north down wash.

#5

Pictures 11-20 next!

PHOTOS 11-15 from TW

David K - 3-15-2011 at 12:31 PM

Pix 11 is left of northern most cave with stairs (gully from pix 10) across from corral on Google Earth.

#11

Pix 12 is right of same.

#12

Pix 13 is gully (stairs of southern cave across from corral).

#13

Pix 14 Right of gully.

#14

Pix 15 is left of gully.

#15

11 & 12 pixs taken from 30-01-09x114-46-18 on my GPS.
Pix 13, 14 & 15 taken from 30-01-13x114-46-15 on my GPS.

PHOTOS 16-20 sent from TW

David K - 3-15-2011 at 12:52 PM

Pix 16 Wall of the wash where arches should be with decorated cave and courtyard above. The pix is looking down the wash from 30-01-05x114-46-32 to 30-00-58x114-46-20. It slopes down as you can see and I think someone could hike up at the low end and further up for a more complete investigation for what's on top.

#16

Pix 17 Same wall and same pix location but straight at the wall.

#17

Pix 18 Same camera spot but looking a little further to the NW, zoomed in.

#18

Pix 19 Same camera spot looking a little further to the NW.

#19

Pix 20 Same camera spot but wide (zoomed out).

#20

Pix 20 & 16 show the wall of the wash from 30-01-07 x 114-46-34 to 30-00-58 x 114-46-20 on Google Earth.
With Google Earth point north up and the wall runs left to right in a southeast direction to a bend.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent Job TW... Thank you from all of us 'Lost Mission' fans!!!!

elbeau - 3-15-2011 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
DK I should have them tomorrow, they are in my camera. You should have all 20 now. Let me know if your missing any.

Hi Tom,

Yes... I just downloaded them all and now will post with your captions... Thank you very much... and I am sure elbeau appreciates it as well!

I absolutely do! The only reason I haven't replied sooner is because I'm home sick and staring obsessively at them trying to figure out who stole my lost civilization :?:

You're awesome Tom and Bill. Thanks for all the work and photos.

elbeau - 3-15-2011 at 01:45 PM

And Then, of course, there's the photo Tom and Bill don't want us to see...

David K - 3-15-2011 at 02:35 PM

elbeau, you are making yourself an excellent Nomad... You know how to fit right in! Too bad you are so far from Baja!

There are three Baja Nomads I know in Texas now... Mexitron, Desert Rat and Skeet.
Mexitron his explored a lot of the area between El Marmol and Matomi Canyon, considered the hot area for Santa Isabel! See his Baja hiking photos at http://vivabaja.com/mexitron

desertcpl - 3-15-2011 at 03:28 PM

i have been followning this for a few days now,,

am I missing some thing. I really dont see a thing in the photos

TMW - 3-15-2011 at 05:05 PM

We didn't see anything unusal in the walk down the wash. I think if anyone wants to further the investigation they need to get on top out of the wash. Maybe an airplane flyover to start and if something is seen a land walk in to check it out. Bill has a plane maybe he would be interested in a flyover. Perhaps base it out of Santa Inez. Maybe have some people on the ground when he comes by with radios to communicate. I'll ask him.

elbeau - 3-15-2011 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
We didn't see anything unusal in the walk down the wash. I think if anyone wants to further the investigation they need to get on top out of the wash. Maybe an airplane flyover to start and if something is seen a land walk in to check it out. Bill has a plane maybe he would be interested in a flyover. Perhaps base it out of Santa Inez. Maybe have some people on the ground when he comes by with radios to communicate. I'll ask him.

It would be great to get some arial photos of the features, but with Tom and Bill's trip turning up nothing man-made, it might not be worth your time and money to make a special trip to the arroyo by plane...but if somebody finds themselves flying in the area for some reason, then it would be great if they could snap a few photos.

I will also be posting some pics and explanations of a couple targets that could use a little following up on if someone happens to be visiting El Volcan. Again, it's probably not worth a special trip at this point, but I'd love it if someone who is already going to the arroyo could check it out.

surfer jim - 3-15-2011 at 07:29 PM

...a room full of gold coins and jewels....I knew it!

elbeau - 3-15-2011 at 09:21 PM

OK, good news for the existence of the feature we're calling the "Arch Structure"

We don't have a photo showing this structure from an angle where we can tell if it's an arch or not, but Photo's 19 and 20 do show the feature itself from a completely different angle. In the photos the top of the East side of the feature is visible and the top portion of the back of the feature is visible.

Let me explain the pics that follow:

All images shown here are from Tom & Bill's Photo #20. Photo #19 is almost the same view, but it shows a little more of the top of the hill if you want to take a look. #19 is good for showing the top of the trench that is generally hidden in #19 and #20.

I enhanced image #20 as follows:

-Added 16% gamma
-Added 4% more exposure
-Enlarged to 4X size
-Performed a 1% radial blur
-Performed a 12% common sharpen
-Shrunk image by 1/2

This results in an image with twice as many pixels as the original without an unreasonable amount of blurring due to scale.

You can still look at photo #20 and see what I'm showing without the enhancements, but the enhanced images is much easier to work with when trying to find the feature in the first place.

So, please take a look at the following images and also, please open the KML file and turn the photo overlay on and off a few times and you will see that a LOT of features in the overlay fit perfectly with features of the hillside, proving that the structure I identify as the arch structure really is the arch structure in the photograph. I know you may have to squint a little...so go ahead and squint...this one adds up, although I still can't prove it's an arch, only that it's not a trick shadow of some kind...it's an actual physical feature that needs more investigating.

KML File Link

...oh, and preemptive response to mtgoat: "I know...you don't get it and I'm a creepy villian"

For the rest of you, seriously, open the KML in Google Earth and flick the visibility of the photo on and off and look at how well the features of the hillside agree with this explaination. That structure exists...the question now is whether or not it is an arch or just a very oddly shaped jutting rock that looks like an arch in Google Maps, Bing Maps (different image than Google's), and Google Earth.

elbeau - 3-15-2011 at 10:24 PM

Here's a link to the enhanced image:

Photo #20 Enhanced

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2011 at 11:03 PM

elbow:
keep on dreaming! there are lots of retired guys/gals here with nothing to do but drive around the desert looking for you while you sit at home and watch basketball on boob tube!

hope!

yes we can!

i have a dream!

Bill and Tom's Excellent Adventure

elbeau - 3-16-2011 at 03:51 PM

KML File:

Bill and Tom's Excellent Adventure

(aka: "Bill and Tom's Bogus Journey" according to a certain cloven-footed nomad)

:cool:

WARNING: The KML file itself is small, but it references a LOT of large image files which can REALLY slow down a mediocre computer. For best performance, if you don't have the fastest computer around then once you open the file and it starts loading images, start unchecking some of the images in the left column (probably in a folder under "Temporary Places")

4 more from TW at the lost mission!

David K - 3-16-2011 at 05:02 PM

Attached are 4 more pictures. These were taken out of the wash where the northern cave with stairs would be. Bill and I climbed up out of the wash and I took these. It was about 4pm and the sun was low. My other pictures are basically duplicates of Bill's taken at the same locations etc.

edit: >>>Sorry I went back over my notes and they were not taken at the northern cave with stairs but across from the corral on the west side of the wash on top. We went up there thinking we might get a better look at the top of the corral side, which we didn't, still not high enough.
TW<<<

These pictures are from left to right facing west. In the first picture (14) you can see the gully in the bottom of the picture. The gully runs down to the left into the wash.

Tom

#14

#15

#16

#17

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(no doubt, the sun blinded them from seeing the golden doors to the hidden Jesuit treasures!)

Thanks Tom!
David K

[Edited on 3-17-2011 by David K]

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 12:20 PM

OK, it's time for another call for somebody to visit the mission site.

Here's what we knew before Tom and Bill's trip:

* Satellite imagery (including both Google and Bing) shows what appear to be man-made arches on a hillside and man-made structures that may or may not be the source of the "Lost (or hidden) Mission of Santa Isabel" stories (this doesn't necessarily mean it's a mission, but it could at least be the source of the stories).

* The location of these features is consistent with a significant number of the legend stories, including the stories DK posted on page 1 of this thread, as well as the story from "The Californian" that I posted on page 3 of this thread.

* There are no roads or modern dwellings within sight of the site.

* Although a couple nomads had driven motorcycles down the arroyo a little ways, nobody ventured out of the arroyo during those trips.

* There may have been mining operations somewhere in or around the arroyo area before or about 1905.

Here's what we learned from Tom's trip:

* There is much more water in the arroyo than previously thought. Here's what Tom sent me in an e-mail: "There were several places where there was water in the wash and lots of vegetation...Mostly the water was pooled next to a rock. Not large areas. The biggest pools would be maybe 3 feet by 12 to 15 feet long but not very deep, a foot or so. Some of the water was spread out under vegetation that made it hard to tell how much and we avoided it and walked around."

* Distances from the arroyo to the supposed corral and probably to the mission site can be deceitful. Hiking up and out of the arroyo will be required to snap a photo of these sites.

* There are a lot of stone outcroppings which may be tricking us into seeing things that aren't actually there.

* There were no obvious signs of human habitation during the walk down the arroyo itself, and two of the smaller features I had labeled as caves were significantly debunked.

* The top of whatever feature is causing us to see arches going up the hillside has been photographed, but from a poor angle where it cannot be determined what the feature is or isn't.

* It is about a four mile-walk from the graded road to the supposed corral site.

Here's some things that really deserve some attention still:

* Somebody should visit and photograph the mission site. Tom and Bill made significant progress in documenting some parts of the site, but only ventured out of the arroyo across from the supposed corral. The mission site would have been about 1/2 mile to the north on the north face of a ravine or gully. Nobody has come within site of the supposed mission yet. DK had originally understood that Tom and Bill used their GPS to go to the actual mission site, but Tom has confirmed that they did not.

* Somebody should document the foliage that appears to be growing up above the mission site. Many of the mission legends describe unique foliage and this is worth investigating.

* Somebody should take a look around the valley area beyond the supposed foliage area.

* Somebody should get a proper view of whatever those supposed "arches" are. In my opinion, there is a chance to find not only a "lost mission" around the arroyo, but also ruins of an older civilization that the mission is built on or around. If the arches really are man-made arches then they are probably the easiest way to document something from this supposed older civilization. The hillside with the arches and the trench beside them are relatively easy to get to compared to other sites that appear to be worth investigating...even easier than the mission. If the arches aren't a man-made structure, it would not necessarily invalidate the existence of the "lost mission" a little ways beyond. Tom mentioned that he thought it would be worth hiking up the "arches" hillside from the gently sloping eastern side. This hike would probably also give you a distant view of the corral and the mission site, and it would give a view down that trench near the arches.

So.....

You are the "Baja Nomads" and this is a not-yet-debunked lost mission story that is only a couple miles from a graded road and you've all known about it for more than two weeks now. Go back and re-read this thread and look at how many of you "talked the talk" about going that first day.

Tomorrow is a Saturday. Surely there is a Baja Nomad who perhaps owns a motorcycle who has at least a little Indiana Jones in them and would love to be able to tell the story about how they threw reason to the wind and spent a day looking for a lost ancient civilization, a lost Jesuit mission, with the faint hope of finding a buried treasure.

mcfez - 3-18-2011 at 03:22 PM

all gone.

[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
Whatever the hell you are smoking.......it must be great.

wow! zippy one-liners! That's cool! How do you do it?

Here's a suggestion...you look like you want to shut me up about this, and that's cool. But zippy one-liners won't get you there.

So here's my challenge to you mcfez...or any of my other vocal critics:

Go snap a photo of the site. If there's nothing man-made about either the arches or the so-called mission site, then forevermore I will have this as my forum avatar:

And my forum signature (beneath every one of my posts) will say "I'm a pink Baja Pansy"

And in case you think that's not good enough, I'll even post the picture and signature for at least one month in a prominent position on the home page of my commercial website (which does get a fair number of daily users interested in geology):

http://www.elbeaus.com

And I'll make a web version of Terraphone for Baja for everybody to use for free on the bajanomad.com website.

So, the real question is: Are you really just going to talk the talk?

I'll do what I can to make it worth your while...but what I said about my daughter and her medical bills really is true...I'm not just a troll. I'd be there myself in a heartbeat if I could.

mcfez - 3-18-2011 at 03:56 PM

[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]

[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
Actually dude...
You just did yourself in like that ChrisX character. Calling the BN a bunch of Pansies. You just lost your creditability of being a cool member here.

Think I am bad knocking you around....it's still early in this day. Most folks here just hate being called a pansy.

Enjoy.

Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little fun.

mcfez - 3-18-2011 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little fun.

A very few. It's not humor...its insulting to many of us that have lived a life of the great-doors. Insulting to the men in uniform here too. Cops and such aint pansies! Retired folks here that are past 70...still kicking it in Baja...ain't pansies.

I joke here a hell a lot. Hell...I even give a hard time to lots here...if reason calls for. But never would I insult all the all BN's. Never. Show respect dude.

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 05:12 PM

Fair enough. Edited what I could. Sorry if any were offended.

[Edited on 3-19-2011 by elbeau]

mcfez - 3-18-2011 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little fun.

Fair enough. Edited what I could. Sorry if any were offended.

I think most here will over look. I will certainly. Takes a big man to make things right from a wrong. You are big.

David K - 3-18-2011 at 05:51 PM

It is all good to have a desire to discover things... I sure do... I would be happy to go back there and check it out when I am able.

Perhaps other Nomads will check it closer... I thought TW told me he hiked up to your GPS spot and confirmed that the only thing there was rocks and cactus... sorry I heard wrong.

He did hike to the arroyo below the spot and looked right to your 'arches' (which I still don't see in the satellite images) and took photos... Nothing wrong with going there again... but besides loving the 'lost mission' legends (because they are historical stories), I also am one to study the history and facts of the missions as scribed by historians before me and I read the published letters that Jesuit priests have written their superiors during their time on the peninsula.

The Jesuits could not survive most of their time on what was produced on the peninsula... it had to be supplemented with supplies from the mainland.
Building a mission takes lots of people, food and water.

Any and all missions required good source of water and land to grow crops... The cliffside above Arroyo el Volcan is not a place to build a mission and there is no land nearby for raising food. The arroyo may have tinajas (ponds) following rare rain, but the only year round water is a few miles away at the El Volcan Onyx Dome, and it is rich in minerals that stain the rocks and soil down the arroyo.

There is nothing this location has in common with any other Jesuit mission project. So, what did they eat and drink while building this mission? What funds were used to finance it (all other missions had funds donated by wealthy people in Europe and it was well documented. No Jesuit records have any project named Santa Isabel in California.

The closest refrece to a Santa Isabel is a water source of that name on the Jesuit map of 1757, near the coast... and that does happen to be near this point. This is what inspired Choral Pepper to search for it in the hills south of Puertecitos, back in the late 1960's. There were plenty other searchers too... Jesuits were saving souls and building roads and missions to help Spain secure California before the Russians or British did. They had little or no time or energy to mine gold.

Whatever it takes to enjoy Baja and the desert I am all for... But, don't get real bummed out if there isn't anything there. It would have been found... this entire area has been covered by prospectors, miners, geologists, helicopters and airplanes...

TMW - 3-18-2011 at 08:01 PM

I am willing to go back in April and hike down to where pictures 16-20 were taken and climb up and see whats there and take pictures. I think it would be best to camp overnight and take off in the early morning so a full day could be taken to explore the area. I am planning to meet Ken and the Jeepsters for a run thru the Turquesa mine. After the mine run Ken was going to mission Santa Maria at Catavina and Bajacat was joining us. I could stay a little later and maybe Bajacat and I could hike in. Maybe Ken's Jeeps could go further than I could.

We need to put this to rest once and for all if possible. Will we be rich or just poor explorers hoping????? I get to keep the first gold cup we find.

TMW - 3-18-2011 at 08:10 PM

I have emailed Bill to see if he is interested. I'll u2u Bajacat to see if he is interested too.

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I am willing to go back in April and hike down to where pictures 16-20 were taken and climb up and see whats there and take pictures. I think it would be best to camp overnight and take off in the early morning so a full day could be taken to explore the area. I am planning to meet Ken and the Jeepsters for a run thru the Turquesa mine. After the mine run Ken was going to mission Santa Maria at Catavina and Bajacat was joining us. I could stay a little later and maybe Bajacat and I could hike in. Maybe Ken's Jeeps could go further than I could.

We need to put this to rest once and for all if possible. Will we be rich or just poor explorers hoping????? I get to keep the first gold cup we find.

Once again, you're awesome. Thx.

elbeau - 3-18-2011 at 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
...The Jesuits could not survive most of their time on what was produced on the peninsula... it had to be supplemented with supplies from the mainland.
Building a mission takes lots of people, food and water.

Any and all missions required good source of water and land to grow crops... The cliffside above Arroyo el Volcan is not a place to build a mission and there is no land nearby for raising food. The arroyo may have tinajas (ponds) following rare rain, but the only year round water is a few miles away at the El Volcan Onyx Dome, and it is rich in minerals that stain the rocks and soil down the arroyo.

There is nothing this location has in common with any other Jesuit mission project. So, what did they eat and drink while building this mission?...

Like I've said many, many times, I'm not saying this is a Jesuit mission, only that it is a possible source of the -legends- of a "Lost Mission of Santa Isabel". It doesn't have to actually be a Jesuit mission in order to generate the stories. You know far more than me about the history and survivability of Baja than I do, and I won't pretend for a minute that my obsession with hoping to find something based on blurry satellite imagery can supplant the many years worth of knowledge you've built up about the peninsula.

I do think TW's report of water in the arroyo is worth looking into. Perhaps the water table is higher than we think...but I don't know, I just know that nobody has really produced anything to say that you could never find reliable underground water there, especially when there is a known year-round spring just 12 miles away. It's worth checking out a little more.

I've made this point from the beginning: "I think there is enough to go on here to warrant an on-the-ground investigation of the site"

Everything I've said that I hope for beyond that is just wishful thinking...but I don't mind getting my hopes up, even if it turns out that they get dashed in the end...heck, I thought they were dashed when you called me last week and told me the mission site had been visited and debunked, and that was all fine.

I just think it's worth looking into.

David K - 3-19-2011 at 08:10 AM

Sure it is worth looking into... why not.

When I talked to Tom on the phone from San Felipe before the line/ cell went dead, he told me they went there... and there was nothing but "rocks and cactus"... That is what I told you when I called you...

So now, there is room for some more speculation... which is GREAT! Anything to get us back to Baja to explore is good with me.

Looking forward to it! :cool:

tripledigitken - 3-19-2011 at 08:15 AM

I don't want to go through the thread again, so...........

Why is it you can't go do this trip yourself?

elbeau - 3-19-2011 at 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
I don't want to go through the thread again, so...........

Why is it you can't go do this trip yourself?

Just read the first post

elbeau - 3-19-2011 at 09:28 AM

Another thing that is developing out of this is that we're generating and documenting a fair amount of data on an area that is really quite poorly documented online. The truth is that it's actually quite hard to find any detailed information on the arroyo and surrounding mountains. Try this:

Add every layer you can find to Google Earth and start zooming in on Baja. You'll see photos and panoramic images all over the place...but this area and a couple others look like empty holes with no data at all except for El Marmol and the El Volcan onyx dome site and the olividada mine site near the other side of the mountain range.

Same thing if you search Google and Bing. You'll see photos of the places I mentioned above and a few very old magazine articles and legends, but not much in the way of a detailed geologic description.

Terraphone did pull up the location of an old mine that isn't mentioned anywhere I can find. It's near that X-shaped feature that I mentioned. The data for the mine from a usgs data set.

Anyways, no matter what the archaeological search does or doesn't turn up I'm going to take whatever photos and descriptions we generate from this and organize them like I have been doing in this thread and keep them posted in this thread just for the sake of documenting the region.

surfer jim - 3-19-2011 at 10:12 AM

...and when they start hauling out all those gold coins it will be time for a trip down to "help out".....I can just see my pockets and shoes full of treasure....it's even better than walking around with a donkey and a dog

David K - 3-19-2011 at 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
I don't want to go through the thread again, so...........

Why is it you can't go do this trip yourself?

Ken, maybe we can get Roy (The Squarecircle) to drive his Land Rover 'Winston' to it? We can offer support (hold cold beers and watch)! :lol:

tripledigitken - 3-19-2011 at 10:50 AM

How is Roy?

It sounds like an interesting plan.

David K - 3-19-2011 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
How is Roy?

It sounds like an interesting plan.

He looks good... I visited with him at his home a couple weeks ago. I think he got his computer fixed, as he has been reading Nomad... Hey Roy, ready to drive to 'Santa Isabel'?

TMW - 3-19-2011 at 11:39 AM

I've been studing Google Earth of the site and it does get more interesting. I've marked a few areas of interest. Using GE turn it, look at it from different angles.

At 30-01-12x114-46-21@1850ft it appears as a path from the wash up the mtn for a 1000 ft or more. It was the stairs for the first or lower cave. It may only be a water run off path.

At 30-01-04x114-46-22@1770ft is another set of paths up the mtn. It starts on the lower end as shown in picture 16 and also runs up the mtn maybe 1000 ft. This one appears to branch into mutliple paths. Again it may be no more than a water run off.

At 30-01-10.25x114-46-27.45@1991ft ia a dark column running down to the wash. This area is in picture 19 and 20.

It is interesting enough for me to want to go back for a better look.

TMW - 3-19-2011 at 11:59 AM

For something really weird. Go to where the road crosses El Volcan wash on Google Earth 29-59-50x114-46-10.3 and run the cursor up down and all around the wash and the road especially on the east side. The wash at the bend is 10 to 20 feet higher than the road as well as the wash to the south. In reality the road is higher and the wash drops in elevation as you go down it. If tilt the picture is shows the wash higher than the road on the east side. It must be something in the GE program software.

David K - 3-19-2011 at 12:06 PM

TW, I think Beau has got you hooked, too! I am ready to support any lost mission hunt, crazy or not! :biggrin:

TMW - 3-19-2011 at 12:27 PM

DK what's a retired guy to do but to have fun and chase dreams. It's like being a kid again. Besides I love the desert, ghost towns, old mining camps and missions.

elbeau - 3-19-2011 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
For something really weird. Go to where the road crosses El Volcan wash on Google Earth 29-59-50x114-46-10.3 and run the cursor up down and all around the wash and the road especially on the east side. The wash at the bend is 10 to 20 feet higher than the road as well as the wash to the south. In reality the road is higher and the wash drops in elevation as you go down it. If tilt the picture is shows the wash higher than the road on the east side. It must be something in the GE program software.

Understanding how Google Earth does topography is pretty important when trying to understand what you're looking at when it's rendered. Google Earth uses Nasa's SRTM topography data, which has a resolution of about 30 meters (roughly 100'). This means that with a 200' wide arroyo, Google Earth -may- have up to two data points to work with. In addition, I believe the default terrain setting within Google Earth is to exagerate terrain by about 50%. This makes it easier for our eyes to see the terrain from higher altitudes within the application, but also causes a stretching effect whenever you try to zoom in close to something. For the sake of what we're doing it's sometimes nice to exagerate the terrain for a few minutes in order to get an idea of what direction the slopes of a hill may be facing, but before making an attempt to intrepret any feature you should set the topography setting to 1.0 (no exageration) and then still look at it knowing that Google only has a data point every 100 feet at best and is making up everything in between.

Also, when you're looking at any feature it is VERY important to understand that Google does not attempt to decipher the surface pixels very much to figure out what you're looking at from that your new angle so it's easy to look at things upside down and so forth. This would be fine if the satellite that took the photos actually took them from an angle facing DIRECTLY downward...but that would require the satellite to change it's orbit so often that it becomes unreasonable, so instead, the satellite follows an orbit that pretty well repeats itself pretty often and it simply orients its camera toward the target of the photo. This means that you are NOT looking straight down in almost any satellite image. If you go to some known features outside the arroyo like some structures near the coast or over at El Marmol and then start orienting the camera at different angles you will find that the satellite that took these photos took them from the south looking almost north. Generally if you point your compass to about 5 degrees (That means pointing the red part of Google Earth's compass about 5 degrees to the left from North) and don't tilt the camera much at all, then you will see the features from the same angle the satellite snapped the photos from for the arroyo.

The orientation of the sun is important too. Google Earth tries to simulate "times of the day", and you can even choose the time of day you want it to simulate...which works well if you're not zoomed in very much...but those simulated shadows are only based on the 30-meter topographic data and Google Earth does not try to compensate or change the shadows of the individual surface features themselves...so you can make the program cast shadows in a different direction than the actual shadows cast by the sun on the raster image. This can SERIOUSLY mess you up. Tweak your settings so that the sun is at high noon for best close-up results.

In the end, if you want to study the arroyo best, remember that your most accurate data is from South facing slopes and your least accurate date is from North facing slopes...especially sharp north facing slopes. the render quality of other slopes falls somewhere in between.

For us, this means that the hillside "arches" are oriented in an ideal way for accurate viewing, but the mission site is on a slight north facing slope which gives it some distortion.

[Edited on 3-19-2011 by elbeau]

TMW - 3-19-2011 at 12:59 PM

Thanks, that makes sense.

fishabductor - 3-19-2011 at 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
...and when they start hauling out all those gold coins it will be time for a trip down to "help out".....I can just see my pockets and shoes full of treasure....it's even better than walking around with a donkey and a dog

I can just see the Marines hauling off a bunch of illegal treasure hunters to the slammer, as it is a federal crime to remove anything archelogical and/or mineral. They belong to the Mexican government.

Anything sounds better than walking around in the desert with a donkey and a dog to me....but I'd take it over being hauled off to a Mexijail.

One has to ask one's self why would anyone build anything on terrain like what is shown in DK's photos when there is much more suitable locations around for the taking? I would assume they would have built a structure on somewhat flat ground as it would be easier to construct, but I am not a mission guru. I haven't even seen one in person, but I am an Engineer.

What do you think DK, is this a likely Mission spot? Me thinks not.

[Edited on 3-20-2011 by fishabductor]

Jack Swords - 3-20-2011 at 06:02 AM

Just to cause trouble......

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=368

"Why build anything on terrain like what is shown...?"

BAJACAT - 3-20-2011 at 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I have emailed Bill to see if he is interested. I'll u2u Bajacat to see if he is interested too.

got your u2u Tom let me see if I can get more days off from work, I defenetly what to go, I have been to El Volcan site, that to me is a very spooky place I drove all the way to the bend down stream, like a said very spooky place...

[Edited on 3-20-2011 by BAJACAT]

wilderone - 3-20-2011 at 08:53 AM

"Anything sounds better than walking around in the desert with a donkey and a dog to me ..."
And you call yourself a Nomad. Tsk Tsk.

I have found pictographs, obsidian flakes, shells, scraper tools and sleeping circles proximo de the "junction" at El Volcan and en route to Olvidada mine. There were habitants in the area. For how long, and exactly who - dunno. Don't forget that whoever created the Great Murals have not been determined. Long time history in Baja CA - not just missions. And who created the geoglyphs? One of the Google maps above, shows a fairly flat mesa top with squarish definitions. Would be a bit difficult to determine on the ground unless you were really looking. Takes more than a walk-by, and need to look for other related clues. A structure on the side of a loose rocky hill? Less likely IMO.
Also, on trip to El Volcan we overshot the right turn and continued on the road for another 3 miles or so and saw all kinds of trails criss-crossing in and out of various canyons and arroyos. Maybe for mining or cattle ranching? Just saying there may be many reasons why one would see indicia of mankind. C'mon let's check it out - 3-4 days in the area. I'll bring brownies. Who wants to go?

BAJACAT - 3-20-2011 at 09:04 AM

well the trip to the Santa Maria mission is on the 28th(thursd),come out on Friday.On Friday maybe reach El Volcan and camp out for the day, early morning Saturday (30th) start the search for the mission site and all that jesuit gold...that sounds good....

wilderone - 3-20-2011 at 09:20 AM

You're talking April? I think I can do that. Meet at Sta. Ynez 4/29? Anyone else? Carpool from San Diego? (If so, I'd like to ride - share expenses).

David K - 3-20-2011 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor

Quote:

Not at all... but you don't see that this is all a game... Lost mission searching is just a fun name for desert exploration... an excuse, if you will.

There is no treasures, the padres had none... Perhaps some pieces from the church alters are still out there in some ranchers home or ?? But, no loot of gold, silver or pearls... Missions all were documented... even if they were proposed, and those became lost missions to some.

The Santa Clara lost mission (shown on the map as a 'started' mission of San Juan Bautista near Punta Abreojos), and the Santa Maria Magdalena 'started' mission south of L.A. Bay (which may be the site I visited in 2009 http://vivabaja.com/109 ) are more likely to have existed than a place never named as a mission or visita on a map or list.

So, the search for the Lost Mission of Santa Isabel is a Baja activity... something fun to do!

David K - 3-20-2011 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
You're talking April? I think I can do that. Meet at Sta. Ynez 4/29? Anyone else? Carpool from San Diego? (If so, I'd like to ride - share expenses).

If I have some work before... Tough wanting to explore Baja, but no money to do it!

bufeo - 3-20-2011 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Swords
Just to cause trouble.........?"

Jack, interesting link.

I'm posting a U2U to you.

Allen R

fishabductor - 3-20-2011 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"Anything sounds better than walking around in the desert with a donkey and a dog to me ..."
And you call yourself a Nomad. Tsk Tsk.

I should clarify... what I meant was walking 1000 plus miles through the desert.

I like exploring as well...I have found petrogylphs and other ancient items while out exploring. I have a metal detector and am planing on going out and checking a rock wall constructed in a very odd place.

I also like to walk out of the family ranch searching for drop antlers....weather permitting. You won't find me doing this in July...been there done that....and barely made it back to the ranch. Heat stroke/dehydration about killed me. :barf:

TMW - 3-20-2011 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
well the trip to the Santa Maria mission is on the 28th(thursd),come out on Friday.On Friday maybe reach El Volcan and camp out for the day, early morning Saturday (30th) start the search for the mission site and all that jesuit gold...that sounds good....

Good, we'll keep in touch as it gets closer.

TMW - 3-20-2011 at 12:41 PM

Fish, if I was to find any treasure the Mexican government would be among the first to know. Maybe a reward, but it doesn't matter.

As to why they would build a mission out there in the middle of nowhere, who really knows. Why did they build Santa Maria where it is. Not an easy place to get to. Back in the time there may have been water in El Volcan and there may have been indians in the area for them to convert, I don't really know. I'm really out there looking for the amazon women that may be hiding in a cave waiting for a handsome man such as me to come along. Now that I would not tell anybody about and I'm sure Bajacat would keep quite too.

fishabductor - 3-20-2011 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Fish, if I was to find any treasure the Mexican government would be among the first to know. Maybe a reward, but it doesn't matter.

As to why they would build a mission out there in the middle of nowhere, who really knows. Why did they build Santa Maria where it is. Not an easy place to get to. Back in the time there may have been water in El Volcan and there may have been indians in the area for them to convert, I don't really know. I'm really out there looking for the amazon women that may be hiding in a cave waiting for a handsome man such as me to come along. Now that I would not tell anybody about and I'm sure Bajacat would keep quite too.

Amazon women hiding in a cave...can I come too?

Have fun on the adventure!

Note: the comment about the mex gov and illegal treasure hunting stemmed from surfer jims comment about filling ones pockets with gold. I know it was a jokingly made comment, but I really don't want to hear about anyone going to the slammer over a few Bulleon(sp?)

Cypress - 3-20-2011 at 12:51 PM

The Mexican Govt. has "treasure" galore; pot ,cocaine, meth, etc. Feeding the criminal crowd in the USA. If I've got to take a pee test to work my ass off, then pee test the welfare crowd. If they don't pass the test, no more welfare. :biggrin:

TMW - 3-20-2011 at 12:52 PM

["Amazon women hiding in a cave...can I come too?"]

Sure as long as you don't tell. What happens in a cave stays in a cave.

fishabductor - 3-20-2011 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The Mexican Govt. has "treasure" galore; pot ,cocaine, meth, etc. Feeding the criminal crowd in the USA. If I've got to take a pee test to work my burro off, then pee test the welfare crowd. If they don't pass the test, no more welfare. :biggrin:

damn good point...cypress

David K - 3-20-2011 at 10:53 PM

Quote:

Santa Maria was the second location for the mission that was originally founded at Calamajue.

When crops would not grow in the highly mineralized water, the Indians told the padres about the valley where Santa Maria was built... It was the closest, year round source of abundant, sweet water.

The land was not the greatest for growing crops, and soon after the Franciscans (who replaced the Jesuits in 1768) founded San Fernando, in 1769, the Santa Maria mission was reduced in status to a visita. Santa Maria was the shortest lived mission in Baja.

originally founded at Calamajue

mcfez - 3-21-2011 at 07:45 AM

David....
The "Calamajue" down by Coco's? Same place?

David K - 3-21-2011 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
David....
The "Calamajue" down by Coco's? Same place?

That's the only one, yes!

See this page, made to help anyone find the Baja missions and many mission related sites (GPS and satellite views):
http://vivabaja.com/missions4/

Here is Calamajue mission site (as it appears on my web page):

CALAMAJUE 29°25'16.30" 114°11'42.36" Located 15.5 miles north of Hwy. 1 (Km. 261) or
14 miles east and south of Coco's Corner, on the east bank of Arroyo Calamajue.

Photos at the site and brief data: http://www.vivabaja.com/missions1/page8.html

[Edited on 3-21-2011 by David K]

mcfez - 3-21-2011 at 09:30 AM

Stupid me David! I had no idea of this place was there...yet I have been making plans for run to this place! Thanks for the info (again!). There's a fishing hole there that I keep hearing about...

David K - 3-21-2011 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
Stupid me David! I had no idea of this place was there...yet I have been making plans for run to this place! Thanks for the info (again!). There's a fishing hole there that I keep hearing about...

You are thinking of the cove on the gulf coast (Puerto Calamajue), down the arroyo from the mission. About 25 miles by road between the two.

2008 and 1962 maps of the area...

elbeau - 3-22-2011 at 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
...I have been to El Volcan site, that to me is a very spooky place I drove all the way to the bend down stream, like a said very spooky place...[Edited on 3-20-2011 by BAJACAT]

I'm wondering what you mean by "spooky". I haven't heard it described that way before and it sounds like a good story. Please tell

Debra - 3-22-2011 at 02:28 PM

elbeau, I didn't read all 8 pages here, but, I can assure you that DK is sincere in his love and trustworthyness of all things Baja, having traveled with him many times over the last 10yrs. in his search for the "Lost Mission" I have first had experience being totted all over the desert, that I think I deserve to be in on this hunt............howsabout it David? I'll be heading down on the first and in Baja for a couple of months. Can I come?

elbeau - 3-22-2011 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Debra
elbeau, I didn't read all 8 pages here, but, I can assure you that DK is sincere in his love and trustworthyness of all things Baja, having traveled with him many times over the last 10yrs. in his search for the "Lost Mission" I have first had experience being totted all over the desert, that I think I deserve to be in on this hunt............howsabout it David? I'll be heading down on the first and in Baja for a couple of months. Can I come?

At this point, it's up for grabs for anybody to go. TW made a visit to the arroyo a couple weeks ago, but not all the way to the so-called mission site. It sounds like there's interest in another trip towards the end of April. If you can go sooner, go for it! I'd love to hear what you find.

Debra - 3-22-2011 at 03:12 PM

Thank you, but, being the 56yr. old Grand-MA with a broken back attained in Punta Cabras on an Baja trip with friends in Aug. 2001, my ideas of solo into the desert are long gone....... however, be assured anyone that may want to take up this adventure, my rig is totally desert proof, have many parts that you might need also, and I cook! And I have room for a couple of passengers.

As I said, I'll be down somewhere around the 1'st, please keep me in mind if a outing is planned, Thanks

David K - 3-22-2011 at 05:29 PM

Hi Debra (aka 'travelpearl'),

I was right on this and have talked to elbeau on the phone, as well.

Having searched for (and finally found*) one of the 'lost Baja missions... I am very supportive of desert exploration.

I just wanted elbeau to not be let down if the blured satellite images were not the arches, fountains and stairways he sees in them. Do go back and look throught the previous pages... You will see that TW went there... maybe he didn't climb up the cliffs to stand on the spot... but he was in the arroyo at the base of the target.

There is much yet to be discovered in Baja... or re-discooved!

(* with the help of a Nomad also using Google Earth who spotted the wall I was seeking.)

TMW - 3-22-2011 at 06:51 PM

elbeau I would like you to mark out on Googler Earth exactly what you want us to photograph. I mean like the exact corrdinate spots. That way we can use the GPS and take pictures of that exact location. My assumption is that we would go to the location where pictures 16-20 were taken and climb up above. If time permits we can move further down the wash area maybe from the area above and see whats there. From the west side high above maybe even see the corral area. We need to allow about 4 hours to go in and come out, 2 each way.

wilderone - 3-23-2011 at 09:32 AM

"...a broken back attained in Punta Cabras on an Baja trip with friends in Aug. 2001 ..."
That sounds like an interesting story. Details? (maybe another thread so as not to hijack)

David K - 3-23-2011 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"...a broken back attained in Punta Cabras on an Baja trip with friends in Aug. 2001 ..."
That sounds like an interesting story. Details? (maybe another thread so as not to hijack)

Overly discussed on Amigos de Baja after it happened... It was an accident on a quad and friends helped each other. Lot's of us were there including 4baja, Dern, Fishin' Rich, Desert Bull, my son and daughter and her friend. Photos and some details of what happened on that trip: http://vivabaja.com/cabras

[Edited on 3-23-2011 by David K]

edm1 - 3-23-2011 at 10:53 AM

Very interesting thread. I will be following this.

Bajatripper - 3-23-2011 at 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by edm1
Very interesting thread. I will be following this.

Hey, Art, long time, no posting (that I've seen, at least). Hope things are going well for you and your unstoppable rig. When you making it down this way?

elbeau - 3-24-2011 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
elbeau I would like you to mark out on Googler Earth exactly what you want us to photograph. I mean like the exact corrdinate spots. That way we can use the GPS and take pictures of that exact location. My assumption is that we would go to the location where pictures 16-20 were taken and climb up above. If time permits we can move further down the wash area maybe from the area above and see whats there. From the west side high above maybe even see the corral area. We need to allow about 4 hours to go in and come out, 2 each way.

TW, I've had a couple of busy days but I'll get this put together for you. sorry for the delay.

TMW - 3-24-2011 at 12:21 PM

No problem. We're not going down until near the end of April. I have a new digital camera and I can now take thousands of pictures.

Erle Stanley Gardner connection...

David K - 3-24-2011 at 03:59 PM

On Feb. 4, 2004 TW posted this:

Lost Mission Santa Ysabel

In Earl Stanley Gardner's book Hovering Over Baja, near the end he shows a picture and talks about the lost mission Santa Ysabel. The ruins in the picture are somewhere between LA Bay and Catavina. Has anyone been there? Or dodes anyone know of the exact location shown in the picture? Has it been linked to the missions?

==========================================================

I responded with this:

Uncle Erle was a great mystery novelist. The Santa Ysabel mission legend was well known in the 1950's and 60's when Erle did most of his Baja exploring. Everyone was looking for something out of place, man made, etc. That adobe building in Hovering Over Baja was in fact an old pre-automobile age rancho, not a Spanish ruin, I was told.

So, where is it? The book gives a few clues from the DC-3. But, where is the DC-3, you ask?

The DC-3 plane wreck that the chapter starts out talking about is on Cerro la Gobernadora (just northeast of El Crucero). GPS at the wreck is: 29º17.33'/ 114º06.57'
Thanks to Amigo-Nomad BillB, who climbed the peak and to the wreck and sent me the GPS and photos...

Erle writes he spotted a trail near the wreck and they followed it for several miles until the adobe was discovered. That region is the headwaters of Arroyo Salsipuedes and La Asamblea. The new Rancho San Luis (29º16.72'/ 114º02.80') is back in there, behind a locked gate on a road that leaves Hwy. 1 where the old L.A. Bay road junction is, about 8 miles north of the new L.A. Bay hwy. junction.

Just to see the old grave tombs Erle mentions is worth an investigation! They sound like the tombs at Rancho Santa Ana, southwest of San Borja. Bajataco has a great photo of those in his web site.

Choral Pepper searched for Santa Isabel near Puertecitos where the 1757 Jesuit map lists a waterhole (aguaje) of Santa Isabel. The lost Santa Clara mission, near Punta Abreojos (listed as San Juan Bautista in 1757) is a better candidate for a lost mission. The ruins discovered in 1966, I have been trying to re-find, is listed as Santa Maria Magdalena on that map, south of L.A. Bay.

======================================================

Here is Google Earth look at the DC-3 site (plane symbol):

View West:

BAJACAT - 3-25-2011 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

I'm wondering what you mean by "spooky". I haven't heard it described that way before and it sounds like a good story. Please tell

On my firts trip to the onyx school site,we went to the Volcano site, as you start to go down to the canyon it feels and looks like this is a place that you are not supposse to be in. In the arroyo past the road to la Olvidada mine we drove down stream as far as we could, we wonder around and it felt like if somebody was watching you no sound no signs of animal activity it was earie felling, but maybe it was only me.A long time ago somebody mention that they camp on a death zone in Baja...also no animal activity or noise of any kind.
HERE IS THE LINK FOR THAT STORY http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=23493#pid2137...

[Edited on 3-26-2011 by BAJACAT]

TMW - 3-25-2011 at 06:51 PM

We camped just south of Miraflores on a side road coming from Mission Santa Gertrudis and it was the same way. No wind, no animals, no bugs, no birds, no noise of any kind the whole time we camped. We packed up and when we got back to the main road everything was normal, wind, bugs, birds, animals etc. This was about 2002 or 03. I know the spot and have wanted to go back but never did.

BAJACAT - 3-28-2011 at 09:07 PM

TW. it was you the one that told the story about the Death ZOne!
things are looking good on my part to do the SMM ride and later on to the Volcano site....

elbeau - 3-29-2011 at 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
No problem. We're not going down until near the end of April. I have a new digital camera and I can now take thousands of pictures.

Here you go:

Recommended Photos KML File

I drew a possible path for you to take, but obviously it matters much more that the photos get taken then how you get there. I'm sure once you're on the ground you'll find that I inadvertently drew the line right over a 100' cliff or something. Please don't follow my lines off of cliffs.

The photo angles that are blue are ones I think are important to understand the site. The angles in yellow are really just stuff I'm curious about and can't make heads or tails of.

Also, I put some other placemarks in the file hoping that you or a future traveler might be able to shed some light on some other features in the arroyo area.

This should keep that new camera of yours busy :lol:

I'd love it if you set the camera resolution all the way up to your highest setting that you mentioned in the thread when you bought the camera. You can never have enough pixels

wilderone - 3-29-2011 at 08:05 AM

Can you "save to" something other than a KML file? Can't open.

David K - 3-29-2011 at 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Can you "save to" something other than a KML file? Can't open.

I can't open either... never have been able to... I get a pop up that asks what program to use to open it, and don't know what works... Google isn't one, I have looked...???

bufeo - 3-29-2011 at 08:58 AM

I don't have a suggestion for any difficulties in opening elbeau's link. It opens for me in Google Earth®. The "path" is marked with pushpins.

Allen R
On edit: Unless I'm missing something here????

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by bufeo]

elbeau - 3-29-2011 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Can you "save to" something other than a KML file? Can't open.

I can't open either... never have been able to... I get a pop up that asks what program to use to open it, and don't know what works... Google isn't one, I have looked...???

Weird. I really don't know why it does work on some computers but not on others. I just tried opening it from a completely different computer and operating system than the one I made it on and it recognized it just fine and it opened.

Try right-clicking the KML file link and then choose to save the file to your file system (In windows I think the menu option says "Save Target" or something like that). Then, open up Google Earth and using Google Earth's "File" menu, choose "Open" and select the file you saved. If it works, then the problem is simply that you don't have the .kml extension associated with Google Earth. If it doesn't work, then the problem is that Google Earth really can't read the file. This might happen if your Google Earth installation is not the current version, or it might happen if there's something wrong with my file itself.

Please let me know. I'd like this to work for people.

Thx.

(edited for grammar)

[Edited on 3-29-2011 by elbeau]

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