BajaNomad - Ron Hoff/Bajagringo attacked

Ron Hoff/Bajagringo attacked

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jgreenlaw1 - 9-21-2011 at 04:45 AM

Ok, thanks. 56 pages, wow. It will take a box. My dad was retired in south of san Quintin fro 17 years. I married to a lady, from san quintin, and Im pritty sure 1 of the uncles are parametics.

DENNIS - 9-21-2011 at 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
Dennis, you're such a hard burro.. :lol:

Nah.......I just don't think anyone here is quite ready to start reliving this ordeal quite yet. It was an emotional drain for everybody.
Anyway....it's all available.

angels4 - 9-21-2011 at 09:09 AM

Dennis what would this forum be like without your sense of humor... BORING

angels4 - 9-21-2011 at 09:11 AM

But, I do agree with you it was an emotional time for everyone. Just counting our blessings and amazed at their quick recovery.

MitchMan - 9-22-2011 at 09:05 AM

Ron,
I am so relieved that you and your wife are on a strong road to recovery.

I don't know you personally, just your posts that I have read over the few years that I have been on this forum. My impression was that you would be last person that I would expect something like this would happen to. I think that I may be speaking for more than just myself when I say it reminds us all just how vulnerable we the people can be and the lesson that we all can profit by is "be careful and beware". It's changed my attitude, for sure.

Again, I must say that I feel a great sense of gratitude and thankfulness that you and your wife are recovering successfully.

[Edited on 9-23-2011 by MitchMan]

elgatoloco - 9-23-2011 at 09:09 AM

Wow! Been out of town for weeks. So sorry to hear about the attack. Glad to hear Ron and Cristina are on the mend. Kudos to all who stepped up to assist. Hope the perps are put away for as long as possible.

wessongroup - 9-23-2011 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by angels4
Dennis what would this forum be like without your sense of humor... BORING

Good one...... and one which Ron would agree with... I'm sure

He has a super sense of humor.. as do a lot around here...

Thanks it all helps...

irenemm - 9-24-2011 at 12:01 AM

OMG
I have not been on here for a very long time. I am so sorry to hear about this. This makes me so sick to hear something like this.
I pray Ron and Christina are doing well.
I was just telling my husband about this. He has heard nothig about this here. I am sadded that this is now happening here in this area. I have always felt so safe. This is so close to home.
Last week we heard about the fishing tournment out at the bay.
I pray for the fast recovery to both of them .
Stay safe and be careful. This is not the safe place as it used to be.

Spot On

Bajahowodd - 9-24-2011 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
Dennis, you're such a hard burro.. :lol:

Nah.......I just don't think anyone here is quite ready to start reliving this ordeal quite yet. It was an emotional drain for everybody.
Anyway....it's all available.

Exactly, amigo. Let's give this some time.

Rainer - 9-26-2011 at 08:37 AM

Didn't post before - could do nothing to help. But I would like to say - Thank God you guys made it through. You deserved to make it. Good people should not always lose. Get better and put out some more excellent posts, especially on your home building. Thanks for being good guys.

805gregg - 9-27-2011 at 05:46 PM

So now do they live in the community where the criminals, and their families live? Do they have to testify in court, and identify the perpetrators? Is this safe?

Roberto - 9-27-2011 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
<snip>
What the family could certainly use - for those that would (still) want to - is help with medical expenses at the current private hospital that is treating Ron. If there are people that wish to assist with this, the challenge is how to get funds quickly to someone on the ground there - and to whom?

Whomever it is will need to keep good records/receipts, because there will be an expectation of transparency for how those funds are spent. The responsibility does not come lightly.
<snip>
Regards,
-
Doug Means

[Edited on 9-13-2011 by BajaNomad]

My question was deleted, but I wasn't the first to think of this. So what happened to the idea of transparency? Is it too soon? Do others not feel that transparency is an obligation towards those who contributed their hard-earned money?

TheColoradoDude - 9-27-2011 at 06:01 PM

I did not think twice when I gave my donation to Discover Baja. I did so because I love baja and it looked like my donation could really help and I hope it did. I did however think about things after the dust settled and thougth maybe they are financially okay and that our donations may have not been needed. Either way I am glad they are going to be okay.

David K - 9-27-2011 at 06:02 PM

For some people, it just feels good to give when a friend or stranger is in need... Nobody else needs to know the reasons why, it is just personal.

Roberto - 9-27-2011 at 06:05 PM

Yes, well I wasn't asking about "why". As I said the idea of transparency was not introduced by me, though I completely agree with the thought.

John M - 9-28-2011 at 06:36 AM

David,

What a nice thought, makes people think.

Barb M

angels4 - 9-28-2011 at 02:07 PM

Thank you David K for your words of wisdom. Every bit of help provided on-line, physically, spiritually, and financially was needed to make this miracle possible. I know that in due time Ron will provide his two cents. But, for now they are both taking the time to recover physically and emotionally and that my dear friends will take a while. I am personally honored to have contributed my time, efforts and financial help and expect absolutely nothing in return. I know in my heart that all was put to good use and I wouldn't think twice about doing it again. The best part is that I also made life long Nomad friends during a very difficult time.

Woooosh - 9-28-2011 at 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
Yes, well I wasn't asking about "why". As I said the idea of transparency was not introduced by me, though I completely agree with the thought.

Nomads get kudos for responding to help one of their own. One would think this incident would establish a financial protocol for the future. So far I'm not seeing the people who warned the collection of donations was a serious responsibility, to be taking it that way. Maybe some think Ron needs more time before the subject comes up, but "recuperating in the pool in Bakersfield" was close enough (although I don't see that post up anymore). I don't really care about the outcome of a simple money-in/money-out spreadsheet, it's the process of doing it responsibly and transparently that is important to me. If we don't do it right this time- people will be hesitant do donate in the future should the unfortunate need arise. jmho

DENNIS - 9-28-2011 at 03:28 PM

The relief funds are as much a part of the story as the incident itself, but I believe that will be left to Ron to fill us in. I also believe he would want it that way.
Unfortunatly, he just isn't quite ready to rejoin this board or his own. He will when the time is right.
Cut the guy some slack.

SiReNiTa - 9-28-2011 at 03:47 PM

The thing here is that it's a process to get the information to you guys as far as how much was spent on what things, it WILL come, Rons' daughter has all of the receipts and papers and we will be making a public post (I offered to help her once she sent the information to me via email) so that everyone can see what their money was spent on, I can't say for sure when but I can say it will happen, and I hope that's enough for now.

Not necessary

bajaguy - 9-28-2011 at 03:50 PM

If the funds were for a Nomad in an emergency, I really don't
need to know how much was spent for what.

If it was for Ron and Cristina, that is good enough for me.

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
The relief funds are as much a part of the story as the incident itself, but I believe that will be left to Ron to fill us in. I also believe he would want it that way.
Unfortunatly, he just isn't quite ready to rejoin this board or his own. He will when the time is right.
Cut the guy some slack.

Disagree. He neither collected nor solicited the money. The accounting responsibility lies elsewhere, as outlined in the original post from Doug.

DENNIS - 9-28-2011 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If the funds were for a Nomad in an emergency, I really don't
need to know how much was spent for what.

If it was for Ron and Cristina, that is good enough for me.

It's part of the story, Terry. Important details should be published, but in their proper time. This is not time for secrets, but I don't think that's going to happen.
All in good time.

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
The thing here is that it's a process to get the information to you guys as far as how much was spent on what things, it WILL come, Rons' daughter has all of the receipts and papers and we will be making a public post (I offered to help her once she sent the information to me via email) so that everyone can see what their money was spent on, I can't say for sure when but I can say it will happen, and I hope that's enough for now.

That's perfect, makes perfect sense, and all I was suggesting should happen. Thanks.

Woooosh - 9-28-2011 at 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If the funds were for a Nomad in an emergency, I really don't
need to know how much was spent for what.

If it was for Ron and Cristina, that is good enough for me.

I was happy to donate too, and it wasn't a loan. I just want a transparent process to be there for the next Nomad who may need it. Maybe an "escrowed" account is better if this "system" didn't work? Maybe set up a Nomad PayPal account (free) and a path to get the money out. A system that would work for any Nomad seeking charity donations as well. Clearly we are good-intentioned people who will likely go through this fire drill again. jmo

greengoes - 9-28-2011 at 04:36 PM

I am curious how much was collected, how much was dispersed and if there is a positive balance what should be done with it.

Another worthy charity all could agree on?

J.P. - 9-28-2011 at 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greengoes
I am curious how much was collected, how much was dispersed and if there is a positive balance what should be done with it.

Another worthy charity all could agree on?

I was taught If you give and expect anything in return you are giving for the wrong reason.

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

I was taught If you give and expect anything in return you are giving for the wrong reason.

Just wondering - who is someone asking for anything in return?

J.P. - 9-28-2011 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

I was taught If you give and expect anything in return you are giving for the wrong reason.

Just wondering - who is someone asking for anything in return?

What buisness is it of anyone how much was given or collected The underlying controll issues of this whole thread is sickening.

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

I was taught If you give and expect anything in return you are giving for the wrong reason.

Just wondering - who is someone asking for anything in return?

What buisness is it of anyone how much was given or collected The underlying controll issues of this whole thread is sickening.

Interesting perspective.

Woooosh - 9-28-2011 at 05:06 PM

"Just wondering - who is someone asking for anything in return?"

I'm gonna stick my neck out on this and say "NO ONE".

I think reasonable expenses should be allowed. The closest Nomad available and willing to give aid should be reimbursed in addition to the medical bills if the funding allows. Gas, hotel, meals, cell minutes(?). That's why I think we should adopt a system for cash donations- surely there must be a non-profit group in Mexico with a working model of what we need. In this information age there is no shortage of ways to make this easy and transparent. I don't expect the Nomad who saves my sorry butt to be rich and I don't want them to decide between saving me and a new fishing reel.

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 9-28-2011 at 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't want them to decide between saving me and a new fishing reel.

What kind of reel? :lol:

norte - 9-28-2011 at 05:09 PM

and he is rolling in his grave. How did you come up with these pearls of wisdom (Ignoramus!) at a time like this?

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
While Ron and Cristina were in crisis.

But, when I told hubby about their situation, he replied, "Now you you know why we have dogs and a fenced property inside a gated community."

He added, "When someone arrives unexpected at our gate, ringing our bell and asking for entrance, I always let the dogs out first and then establish a protocol."

Safety comes first... even our late amigo 'jrbaja' lived inside a gated community while posting publicly against them as isolating yourself from the 'real' Mexican experience.

J.P. - 9-28-2011 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't want them to decide between saving me and a new fishing reel.

What kind of reel? :lol:

DENNIS you are too many :lol:

sanquintinsince73 - 9-28-2011 at 08:07 PM

Roberto, I've come to the conclusion that *** *** * **** *********. What happened to Ron and Cristina is a tragedy. From this tragic event we witnessed a bunch of beautiful people come together and render whatever aid was possible. I appreciate Shari, DK, Sirenita, angels4, Dennis and many others for all of the organizing they did.

I am sure Ron is reading these post's and quite frankly I am embarrassed at some of the crap you are posting. If you ever run into trouble in Baja and you are within striking distance of Ron, he will be the first one to respond to your call for aid.....in his PJ's if he has to.

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by BajaNomad]

norte - 9-28-2011 at 08:15 PM

WOW...some of the hate by the do-gooders that gets spewed.

I went back through this thread from the beginning, and while a lot of people did their best to help, there was also a lot of chaos and wasted energy. I can see where some are coming from. If you want to turn these "good deeds" into something a little more responsive, then there should be more organization (which includes the finances).

It would also take a lot of work...

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Roberto, I've come to the conclusion that *** *** * **** *********. What happened to Ron and Cristina is a tragedy. From this tragic event we witnessed a bunch of beautiful people come together and render whatever aid was possible. I appreciate Shari, DK, Sirenita, angels4, Dennis and many others for all of the organizing they did.

I am sure Ron is reading these post's and quite frankly I am embarrassed at some of the crap you are posting. If you ever run into trouble in Baja and you are within striking distance of Ron, he will be the first one to respond to your call for aid.....in his PJ's if he has to.

Thanks. I have come to the conclusion that *** *** ** ***** - as *** speak without knowing anything of what *** are talking about. Check back and *** *** see that I was one of the first to volunteer to actually get off my butt and go down there and bring him back to the US and get him in a hospital. I believe in helping up close and personal. That never happened because his daughter didn't want to go that way.

***********************************? **************************** ************************** *****************?

Don't talk to me about helping others, in Baja or elsewhere. I have done it many times and not over the phone, but by actually being there. You don't know about it because I don't advertise, in fact, I don't want people to know because the chatter on this board often makes me ill. That's not why I do it. But there are others on this board (and many board NOT on this board) who do.

Every charitable organization in the world has open records, and for good reason. It makes people who know nothing feel everything is clean and above board and makes them willing to contribute. Think about it. *************************************, and Doug was the one who made the statement about needing to keep detail records, which I couldn't agree with more. Was he **** stirring too?

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by Roberto]

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by BajaNomad]

Woooosh - 9-28-2011 at 08:34 PM

well, this isn't going so well. before things get really ugly, why don't we table the discussion until whoever has the receipts gets them in order. beyond that we should take it to Off-Topic were no one's feelings ever get hurt. just a suggestion.

:saint:

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 08:36 PM

Woooosh, I think you are right. I also will pass on "discussing" this any further. I am done. Educational experience.

Wingnut - 9-29-2011 at 06:30 PM

OMG, I just today picked up on this thread (I have been away from the website for nearly a month) and was flabbergasted to hear what happened to Bajagringo and his wife. I am astounded by how fast and thoroughly Nomads responded to their aid. Thank goodness for Sirenita and fdt. I don't know most of you on the forum and usually read it for information, humor and some great pictures of Baja, which I love but don't get to travel to often enough. Regardless of any of the criticism or anger towards such an event, everyone was concerned and helpful to another human being, even if they did not know them. As long as this type of love and concern for our fellow man continues, there is a great deal of hope for our world despite all that is done daily to try to destroy it. I hope Bajagringo and his wife recover swiftly and that those perpetrators of this heinous crime receive their just punishment. Beheading comes to mind. Kudos to all you nomads for everything you have done. Keep up the good work you nomads!

805gregg - 9-29-2011 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
and he is rolling in his grave. How did you come up with these pearls of wisdom (Ignoramus!) at a time like this?

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Safety comes first... even our late amigo 'jrbaja' lived inside a gated community while posting publicly against them as isolating yourself from the 'real' Mexican experience.

A gated community, in Mexico seems to be becoming the Mexican experience, or at least the goal, if you want to survive. I'll bet most rich Mexicans have a gated property.

krafty - 9-29-2011 at 06:52 PM

I'm confused-is a gated community in Cali or Texas a US experience?

EnsenadaDr - 9-29-2011 at 08:33 PM

The last time I heard a gated community was death row at San Quentin...(NOT San Quintin!!!)

oxxo - 9-30-2011 at 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
A gated community, in Mexico seems to be becoming the Mexican experience, or at least the goal, if you want to survive. I'll bet most rich Mexicans have a gated property.

I know a prominant Mexican family with two young children who lived in a Baja gated community with round the clock guards. He was paranoid about kidnapping. So he hired an additional personal guard(s) to patrol his house on a 24 hour basis. He was still paranoid. So he moved his family to the San Diego area last year. He commutes to Baja by public air transportation on a weekly basis to operate his business(es) here. His house sits vacant.

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by oxxo]

mtgoat666 - 9-30-2011 at 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

roberto:
an accounting is only owed to people who gave. you didn't give, so nobody owes you squat!

Accounting for....

EnsenadaDr - 9-30-2011 at 06:46 AM

Any public assistance to tsunami victims or earthquake victims is public record. I don't think Roberto is being unreasonable. When I borrowed money from my aunt to go to medical school, she asked me for a notary endorsed promissory note. She loves me like her own daughter, but business is business.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
His house sits vacant.

Since kidnapping so often begins with the threat to extract money before the crime itself is committed, there are many well-to-do Mexicans living NOB to escape what would be inevitable had they stayed home and chanced it.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
an accounting is only owed to people who gave. you didn't give, so nobody owes you squat!

Nonsense. Public appeals demand public accounting....which, I'm sure will come once the situation is right.
It is only insensitive to demand anything in this case without allowing time.......his time. Not yours.
Ron has problems. He hasn't even returned to his own site as yet. Why don't you folks shelve your impatientce until he's able to participate?
If, at that time, nothing is said, then it's your turn to ask questions.

.

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by DENNIS]

baronvonbob - 9-30-2011 at 07:41 AM

hear hear!

David K - 9-30-2011 at 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Any public assistance to tsunami victims or earthquake victims is public record. I don't think Roberto is being unreasonable. When I borrowed money from my aunt to go to medical school, she asked me for a notary endorsed promissory note. She loves me like her own daughter, but business is business.

That is fine and wise. However, Ron did not ask for help (he couldn't, but he wouldn't if he could I think)...

It was given freely by those who wanted to help. So, give the money accounting requests a break until Ron feels like addressing them, if he wants to.

The only people who have any business knowing where the money went are those who helped. My guess is if you helped, then that is enough.

The result is that Ron survived and is with family recovering, and that is the best anyone of us could hope for and is what giving the money provided... Just what more is necessary if the desired results were achieved? (no response needed, it is just my opinion)

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
an accounting is only owed to people who gave. you didn't give, so nobody owes you squat!

Right on DENNIS and DAVID K ... :mad:

If you have to give with strings attached then DON"T give. If you can't "afford "to give without knowing where your money went DON"T give. If you can't TRUST the man to do the right thing the with your "GIFT" then DON'T give. That's what "GIVING" is all about people. IT'S A GIFT. Take your accounting and kiss my grits.......

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

ELINVESTIG8R - 9-30-2011 at 09:37 AM

I trust the person who received my heartfelt gift for Ron and Cristina so please do not include me in an accounting of what I gave. An accounting for me is not needed.

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
I trust the person who received my heartfelt gift for Ron and Cristina so please do not include me in an accounting of what I gave. An accounting for me is not needed.

RIGHT ON DAVID......

Woooosh - 9-30-2011 at 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

I can top that. There is a large gated community in central Rosarito where many prominent Mexicans (and a few US pro surfers) live. It has only one entrance and exit with guard booth and gate. Even so a 16 year old boy was kidnapped off the street while riding his bike and held for extortion. The guard in the booth tried to help the boy- so they cut off his head and left it across the street in the McDonalds parking lot. The family paid the ransom and got the boy back. There is no way to protect you or your family when they come for you.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
That is fine and wise. However, Ron did not ask for help (he couldn't, but he wouldn't if he could I think)...

It was given freely by those who wanted to help.

Respectfully, I disagree. It was given after a call for financial assistance went out from those who assumed responsibility for his well-being. They are, in fact, responsible for full disclosure as well.
I could have gone forever without an accounting of the donated funds, but the more that people step in and say it's nobody's business, the more I'll insist on fiscal closure.
To deny this process will forever taint the motives of those who assumed responsibility for the acceptance and use of the funds and will live long in the memories of Nomads and others who will, in the future, be called upon to help, and for those generous souls who gave from their hearts on behalf of the Hoffs who don't care to see an accounting.....well, don't look at it, but your cavalier feelings and attitudes shouldn't deny those who feel it's an integral part of the process.

This is crazy. How did this issue ever come to this level of bickering?

.

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by DENNIS]

Woooosh - 9-30-2011 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

This is crazy. How did this issue ever come to this level of bickering?

A lack of leadership and impatience.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

This is crazy. How did this issue ever come to this level of bickering?

A lack of leadership and impatience.

We're supposed to be grown-ups.

Ohh...by the way, Woooosh....nice lead in to your beheading story up there by saying, "I can top that." :lol:

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

This is crazy. How did this issue ever come to this level of bickering?

A lack of leadership and impatience.

We're supposed to be grown-ups.

Ohh...by the way, Woooosh....nice lead in to your beheading story up there by saying, "I can top that." :lol:

...

Dennis, you velly funny man. You maka me raff

rts551 - 9-30-2011 at 11:38 AM

This board can sometimes be unbelievable. An accounting can easily be ignored by those who do not want it. No-accounting may only drive those away that would prefer it.

Now why would you polarize over such a silly issue? Do you really want people to not give as Kashydog has posted?

Woooosh - 9-30-2011 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

This is crazy. How did this issue ever come to this level of bickering?

A lack of leadership and impatience.

We're supposed to be grown-ups.

Ohh...by the way, Woooosh....nice lead in to your beheading story up there by saying, "I can top that." :lol:

People have short memories. I think the illusion of safety in Baja is fleeting and this crime hit a lot of people like a ton of bricks. Apparently being well-liked by the locals is not enough to be safe, nor is living is guarded gated community. You have to make your own security in addition to what is locally available- even is a gated community. Not comparing it to NOB, just saying if your number comes up in Baja- you clearly have less resources on your side to assist you.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
People have short memories.

Americans do....that's a fact. Some others never forget....or forgive.

mtgoat666 - 9-30-2011 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Not comparing it to NOB, just saying if your number comes up in Baja- you clearly have less resources on your side to assist you.

yes, taxes NOB support a fairly reliable safety net for victims of crime, and govt does an adequate job of keeping govt running for us NOB people. and soon there will be mandate to carry health insurance, which means NOB people won't find themselves in trouble w/o insurance. who can complain about that?

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
This board can sometimes be unbelievable. An accounting can easily be ignored by those who do not want it. No-accounting may only drive those away that would prefer it.

Now why would you polarize over such a silly issue? Do you really want people to not give as Kashydog has posted?

WOW !!! Did you ever miss the point :?:

I'm sure you give a complete accounting to all your relatives at Christmas for the gifts you took back because you hated them and the stuff you "re-gifted" to your all your friends or did you just get the money back and use it for beer??

Wait!! I have a solution . I'll start a fund to pay for an accountant to do the audit and we' ll make him give us all an accounting of both funds. You want to be the first donor.. :?:

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

rts551 - 9-30-2011 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG

Quote:

WOW !!! Did you ever miss the point :?:

Don't think so. here is an excerpt from your post.

If you have to give with strings attached then DON"T give. If you can't "afford "to give without knowing where your money went DON"T give. If you can't TRUST the man to do the right thing the with your "GIFT" then DON'T give. That's what "GIVING" is all about people. IT'S A GIFT. Take your accounting and kiss my grits... :fire:

I prefer accounting if it will help people give

rts551 - 9-30-2011 at 12:16 PM

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG

Quote:

WOW !!! Did you ever miss the point :?:

I prefer accounting if it will help people give

OK !!! Here's the point..... When you "gift" something in the true spirit of "giving" it should be done without recourse. I can just see poor Ron sitting down with paper , pencil and spread sheet for a day or two to appease those who need "an accounting". Jeez, thanks for the "GIFT" :no:

...

...

Wait!! I have a solution . I'll start a fund to pay for an accountant to do the audit and we' ll make him give us all an accounting of both funds. You want to be the first donor..

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

tripledigitken - 9-30-2011 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG

Quote:

WOW !!! Did you ever miss the point :?:

I prefer accounting if it will help people give

Just something to consider.............Some of the original large pledges were for transportation costs to NOB, for medical treatment. That didn't occur until substantial costs were incurred in Ensenada. Strings? Only those who pledged can speak to that!

Ken

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Just something to consider.............Some of the original large pledges were for transportation costs to NOB, for medical treatment. That didn't occur until substantial costs were incurred in Ensenada. Strings? Only those who pledged can speak to that!

Ken

I was one of those, Ken, but it, to my recollection, was early in the game while, due to everybody being unaware of what was going on, thought transport to be a viable option. [that was Ron's third day in the hospital, I believe]
Had a depository for funds been in place at that time, I would have put my money there.
I made my pledge and stood by it in a succeeding post, so I don't get your meaning here.

Cypress - 9-30-2011 at 12:37 PM

The "pot" of money contributed to the medical expenses of a Nomad in need has been sqaundered? Good God in Heaven!!! WTF is going on here? On the other hand? :biggrin:

Most of those charity deals are a rip-off.

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 01:36 PM

I don't know why I let myself get sucked into these things.. :?:

..
My father always told me " never argue with idiots, you may be mistaken for one.... :lol:

..
Think Ill go do something constructive. Hey, David K, Elinvestigator and Dennis, I'm buying the first 10 rounds of beer at the Monterey Cannery in Oceanside. You guys comin' over?? One of you guys have to bring the spread sheet for the beer audit. SEE YA THERE... :lol:

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

Cypress - 9-30-2011 at 01:46 PM

The first 10 rounds? Your father was right! :yes:

tripledigitken - 9-30-2011 at 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

The first pledge of $1000 was made on the 11th and was to be paid to whoever could get Ron to a hospital in the US and a few of the others were of the same nature. That on the surface is a conditional pledge and is very common when making donations, you want your money to be spent in a specific way. Again, I don't presume to speak to those who made the pledge. Just giving something to think about to those that are saying pledges with "strings" are to be discounted.

Ken

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 01:59 PM

... :lol:

...

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The first 10 rounds? Your father was right! :yes:

Cypress !!! Don't make me come up there to Ideeho or where ever it is you live. Is that still in the U.S.A.??? Just north of Laguna Beach isn't it .. :?:

BTW you're more then welcome to stop by for a beer too. That is if you can find your way past the moose dung heap... :lol:

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

Roberto - 9-30-2011 at 03:19 PM

For the record - it seems most everyone is missing the boat. It's not RON THAT NEEDS TO ACCOUNT FOR ANYTHING. The money was for him and his family to spend as needed. It's about the OVERHEAD, and any charity or similar effort needs to show what that is.

I hope DENNIS will forgive me for making an additional comment after saying I was done with this thread, but I decided to try one more time to make this clear. Now, you can go on bad-mouthing me. Really "makes no never mind".

norte - 9-30-2011 at 03:22 PM

you mean its not ok if someone needed gas or food money? I mean after all they were donating their time.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
For the record - it seems most everyone is missing the boat. It's not RON THAT NEEDS TO ACCOUNT FOR ANYTHING. The money was for him and his family to spend as needed. It's about the OVERHEAD, and any charity or similar effort needs to show what that is.

I hope DENNIS will forgive me for making an additional comment after saying I was done with this thread, but I decided to try one more time to make this clear. Now, you can go on bad-mouthing me. Really "makes no never mind".

24baja - 9-30-2011 at 03:33 PM

Oh for golly sakes.....must someone on this board always take a good thing and turn it into a bad thing? I hope your families are never in need of a kind word or charitable gift.

Ron & Cristina are great people who never ask us for anything, but I am sure they are extremely grateful for whatever gift we were able to offer, whether it was financial or moral support. I wish I could have done more.

And in my opinion, NO ONE needs to account for anything, a gift is a gift.

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
I hope DENNIS will forgive me for making an additional comment after saying I was done with this thread, but I decided to try one more time to make this clear. Now, you can go on bad-mouthing me. Really "makes no never mind".

I will, but it'll cost you a cold beer.

I haven't seen anyone, nor have I, bad-mouthed you, Roberto. I have been agreeing with everything you say. I just think your timing is off.

mtgoat666 - 9-30-2011 at 03:38 PM

Quote:

robby:
who said there were overhead costs? why do you think it was non-profit that files statements with IRS?
did you donate? if no, why are you asking to examine the books?

when you give to cruz roja in street median, do you ask for ID first? ask to inspect the books?

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 24baja
Oh for golly sakes.....must someone on this board always take a good thing and turn it into a bad thing? I hope your families are never in need of a kind word or charitable gift.

Ron & Cristina are great people who never ask us for anything, but I am sure they are extremely grateful for whatever gift we were able to offer, whether it was financial or moral support. I wish I could have done more.

And in my opinion, NO ONE needs to account for anything, a gift is a gift.

AMEN TO THAT !!!

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 24baja
And in my opinion, NO ONE needs to account for anything, a gift is a gift.

Again, I have to disagree. Gifts are what you receive on your birthday. These funds were solicited.
And, again...I don't care how much they took in...nor do I care where it went. It was, however, an organized effort to gather funds and the books should be open.
If it's supposed to be confidential, so should have the fund raising effort.

And, I'll say one more thing....if this effort isn't voluntarily exposed, whoever next comes here in dire need and appeals to the world for funding only to have the effort morph into a guarded secret, they can count me out as a doner. I'm more than an ATM.

.

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by DENNIS]

Cypress - 9-30-2011 at 04:22 PM

KASHEYDOG, Idaho's getting better and mo better! Not too many people and plenty of critters. :biggrin:

woody with a view - 9-30-2011 at 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

I'm more than an ATM.
[Edited on 9-30-2011 by DENNIS]

yes you are. from what i've heard you're a damn fine drummer, too!
:lol:

DENNIS - 9-30-2011 at 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
yes you are. from what i've heard you're a damn fine drummer, too!
:lol:

Thank you so much. :lol:

David K - 9-30-2011 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
I don't know why I let myself get sucked into these things.. :?:

..
My father always told me " never argue with idiots, you may be mistaken for one.... :lol:

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

That would be sweet! How about tomorrow... I am dead tired now.

By-the-way all of you Nomads... Ron is alive and healing as we speak... and reading Nomad. So, cut the garbage talk. Nomad's contributions saved him and not a penny was wasted.

Let's celebrate that the Internet worked for the good of our fellow Baja amigo, and be happy that so many of us were able to help. The gratitude is forthcoming, but saving a life needs no reward beyond the spiritual one we feel inside... and that's my opinion. :yes:

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
I don't know why I let myself get sucked into these things.. :?:

..
My father always told me " never argue with idiots, you may be mistaken for one.... :lol:

[Edited on 9-30-11 by KASHEYDOG]

AMEN AGAIN !!! CAN I GET AN AMEN FROM ALL OF YA ??...........

David, what time tomorrow ??

[Edited on 10-1-11 by KASHEYDOG]

BajaNuts - 9-30-2011 at 07:17 PM

A donation is a DONATION!

If you want a tax receipt or verification, make sure the organization can supply that before donating. Otherwise, trust that 95% of the people in the world are working for good and any money sent to help someone will be for the good of those who need it.

Don't send/spend more than you can afford, and let it go after that.

If it were a recurring organization/person/scam I'd definitely say ask for verification. This ain't that scenario.

And yea...Nomads ROCK!

Woooosh - 9-30-2011 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Dennis is correct. We jumped in early with pledges specifically targeted to get Ron stateside. We believed he had served in the Navy and was entitled to immediate treatment NOB if we could get him there. Two days was too long to diagnose and treat what we believed was a massive head injury. The med-evac transport did not happen and our pledges were rolled into the hospital bill fund by others. I learned soon thereafter Ron had specifically chosen the Mexican healthcare system and public insurance for catastrophic injury. He is a smart man and this was his plan. It was either not a good enough plan, or the health system failed him. His hospital bill should have been near ZERO had he been taken to the same public hospital as Cristina. Maybe he looked like a "gringo" so they took him to the private hospital, I don't know. I am glad they are fine. I am happy I donated and I am not ashamed to say I donated half the amount towards his Mexican hospital bill as I pledged initially to med-evac him stateside. I set my own conditions by donating half since this was his own plan. I never heard anyone say the family could do whatever they wanted with the money and I thought an accounting system was being put into place on-the-fly by the people who accepted the donations. If Nomads & Friends donated $20K for a $12K hospital bill, there are plenty of Nomad holiday charities that could benefit from the balance. This wasn't the "my healthcare sucks" lottery. jmo. And Yes, I am still happy I donated for Ron and Cristina, it's us not having a transparent system I am not happy with. We should know the cost of an ambulance taking someone to the wrong hospital- just to know.

Woooosh - 9-30-2011 at 09:42 PM

I agree morgaine7. We Nomads weren't prepared for this and a lot of assumptions are still being made. Myself included. This was about raising money fast for the hospital because the Doctor refused to operate on Ron unless he was paid in cash first. We didn't donate in haste without conditions, we were pretty much extorted by the Hospital. This was not a bake sale, charity auction or fundraiser. We had a friend who needed surgery right away and that is what 100% of the money was for when it was collected. It was a horrible experience and it's hard to put everything back in order.

[Edited on 10-1-2011 by Woooosh]

KASHEYDOG - 9-30-2011 at 11:50 PM

OK, people this will be my last post on this thread. I just have to do one more for you paranoid folks who are always thinking you're getting "ripped off" on your $10 or whatever amount of "gift".
As I said earlier in this thread " if you can't afford it, if you can't give it without strings attached or if you don't trust whom ever you gift it to. "DON"T GIVE IT".

Now let's try to put into perspective what we are quibbling over. Let's look at what this horrible experience is costing the victims just from an "out of pocket expense". Just the money involved, since that's what you accountants seem to be focused on.

OK, 2 victims total of 6 days in 2 different hospitals. What do ya think (even in Mexico) $10 grand (?). How about transportation and emergency fees $5 Grand (?). How about 24 hour "emergency room care" for Ron when he was unconscious for 24 or 48 hours( whatever it was) what maybe another $10 Grand( easy). How about ongoing surgeries and rehab here in the states for Ron? Any body want to volunteer a number? How about $30 Grand ( much more expensive here in the states). How about ongoing care for Christina in Mexico ?? ( anybody have an estimate?). I really think I'm being somewhat conservative in these estimates and probably haven't thought of many of the real life expenses, like psychological rehab for both Christina and Ron ( if they can afford the luxury). So, what have we got so far $55 /$60,000 at least ? Do you really think that this Nomad forum with all of it's generous donors raised anywhere near that much money??
I doubt it.
Grab your wallet people we need to step up and give some more instead of demanding an audit of every $10 or $1000 that was "given".

It's just my opinion and you don't have to agree or disagree, but I think that in the "spirit of giving" we all owe Christina and Ron an apology for allowing ourselves to have even entered this discussion. I for one am ashamed. My sincere apologies to Christina and Ron and all of my fellow Nomads. Good night.............

[Edited on 10-1-11 by KASHEYDOG]

latina - 10-1-2011 at 07:28 AM

In my family we were raised to "do unto others as you would have others do unto you"...
I have never met Ron or Cristina but my donation was given in the spirit of kindness and goodwill towards two fellow human beings whose almost fatal injuries came about by simply coming to the aid of their neighbour.

This story could have easily had a horrific outcome, but the financial aid and other support from individuals on this board contributed to putting the wheels in motion that enabled Ron and his wife to actually leave the hospital in Ensenada and begin the long journey to recover from the physical and psychological damage they have suffered. Don't think for a moment that just because they have left the hospital that they will be able to go back to their life as they knew it anytime soon...

In my humble opinion, people are spurred to give their financial help and time to friends, neighbours and strangers by something precious in the human spirit and what they get back is the knowledge that they have helped in some small way without requiring anything in return...after all, what's the point if we can't do what we can to help each other?

Don't diminish the good that has been done by bickering and demanding accountings of expenses from people who probably are only beginning to come to terms with what has happened to them. Maybe for some of you it is time to close this story and move on to the next one, but I think these folks will need a lot more time and compassion from all of us...

DENNIS - 10-1-2011 at 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
Don't diminish the good that has been done by bickering and demanding accountings of expenses from people who probably are only beginning to come to terms with what has happened to them.

Yours is a heartfelt message and should be heeded by everybody. I know I will....right after I correct one key error in your reasoning.
Nobody is asking Ron and Cris to account for anything. From what I can understand, they were/are seperated from the entire donation effort. They didn't ask for anything and didn't receive anything to my knowledge.
That...is why some are asking. It's a fair question.

Thanks for your thoughts. They matter a lot.

wessongroup - 10-1-2011 at 08:53 AM

Good one latina

Woooosh - 10-1-2011 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

I'll bet Ron is totally embarrassed by all this. He didn't ask for any money and had a plan in place for catastrophic healthcare in Mexico without our help. Had the hospital not extorted the money, we could have all waited and donated money in the spirit of fundraising for what they needed to cover the hospital bills and caretaker expenses. Then everyone could do what they wanted with all the money collected. But it didn't go down that way. Hospital extortion is not no-rules fundraising. As far as I know the family did not even need the money, they just didn't have the cash in Mexico to pay the Doctor who demanded it.

extortion?

mtgoat666 - 10-1-2011 at 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Had the hospital not extorted the money,...

has the story now morphed to where the hospital was an extortionist? :?:

would be nice of health care was govt-provided, so we didn't have "free market" condititions allowing doctors to open up legalized extortion clinics! :lol:

sanquintinsince73 - 10-1-2011 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Roberto, no one is negating the fact that you were "one of the first ones to get of your butt and volunteer". I just feel that it was kinda rude of you asking for "transparency" and "an accounting" of all the funds collected for Ron and Cristina in such a public way. A simple u2u to Doug would have sufficed, I think.

I don't know, I just don't agree with Ron having to read all of this arguing over where all of the duckets went. I am a trusting person and for the most part I believe that most Baja Nomads are good, honorable people. I do not believe that some of the donations ended up at "Anthony's".

You are a big man, Roberto. I apologize for having called you a **** ********* ( mea culpa to Jose Cuervo).

Mengano - 10-1-2011 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
would be nice of health care was govt-provided, so we didn't have "free market" condititions allowing doctors to open up legalized extortion clinics! :lol:

Oh, so nobody who needs government-provided services in Mexico ever gets extorted?

Woooosh - 10-1-2011 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Had the hospital not extorted the money,...

has the story now morphed to where the hospital was an extortionist? :?:

would be nice of health care was govt-provided, so we didn't have "free market" condititions allowing doctors to open up legalized extortion clinics! :lol:

That is the absolute truth to the best of my recollection.

Page 36:

[Edited on 10-1-2011 by Woooosh]

shari - 10-1-2011 at 11:23 AM

It is my understanding that Del Carmen charges by the day..the bill is prepared on a daily basis of what treatments cost and made an exception in Ron's case when they were promised the bill would be covered. Nobody had the cash to pay by the day at the time.

I also understand that Ron was first brought to the General Hospital but that they only have one operating room so they had to make a decision there on who they were going to be able to save and they thought Cristina had a better chance at survival but they werent sure they could treat ron's injuries so he was sent on to Del Carmen which makes sense.

I was just the switchboard in all this trying to help communicat with all of you and keep you updated.

I also understand that the receipts are being organized as we speak...several people have different receipts as several people paid the hospital on different occasions. There is no hiding anything...it is just taking ron's daughter time to organize all of this so she can present it clearly and completely so please bear with them...their priority is to help ron & cristina heal.

Woooosh - 10-1-2011 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
they only have one operating room so they had to make a decision there on who they were going to be able to save and they thought Cristina had a better chance at survival but they werent sure they could treat ron's injuries so he was sent on to Del Carmen which makes sense.

Thanks Shari. It was THAT exact moment when Ron should have been med-evac'd to the States, but there was no family member to authorize it.

angels4 - 10-1-2011 at 01:13 PM

Gene, don't worry about it. Sirenita nor Fernando have anything to explain. The answers that less than a handful are requesting will come in due time. What a shame that Ron was not allowe the time to heal and instead has to deal with this demands by some who didn't even donate a penny towards his recovery. Out of respect for Ron and the family I don't open the "Pandora's box" because I do have that much love and respect for him. Please leave Sirena and Fernando out of your speculations regarding funds received. Every dollar was given to Christine and she used it ALL to pay the hospital bill at Del Carmen. There are receipts that tally beyond what was donated. But, the task of giving you the details belongs to Christine, not Sirena nor Fernando. Those two amazing humans went beyond the call of duty to be by Ron's side and HE Knows it. Sorry, Ron I swore not to fuel the fire, but you don't deserve to read this insane posts. I am amazed at how much progress you are making and how hard your are working to get better buddy, but my blood is boiling knowing how unfair some people can be. You stay on track with your recovery, I know that in your heart you know the real truth and no one can fool you.

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