BajaNomad

Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

 Pages:  1    3  ..  17

BajaNews - 2-8-2012 at 05:20 PM

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3262706370304

Posted (approx): 8am (MST), February 8, 2012
by Mark Burbey




For over ten years we have had our property in dispute with a well known person from Tijuana named Rafael Munoz Martinez. We prevailed thru the courts, after many attempts for him to halt or stall the court process. Rafael Munoz has not been in the area knowingly for almost three years. locally, He has apprehension orders for him. Instead he uses thugs and I believe people of no scruples to work for him. Since the end of November 2011 police came and removed these people from this property by court order.

This last Sunday the 5th at 8 pm two vehicles entered our property shooting off weapons. Later my wife Olivia(Mexican) confronted these persons by our little bridge and was assaulted. I took pictures handed the camera to another American tourist. Grabbed Olivia from the dirt and told them to get away and to go to the other side of the bridge. While they were going back a man fired a shotgun between us causing the American tourist and Olivia to go through the railing of the bridge and into the water landing on their sides. I had a can of bear pepper spray which I spayed onto the man with the shotgun. He started shooting wildly and 4-5 shots more happened. Two on each side of my head. I crossed the bridge and helped Olivia and The American tourist out of the water and we returned to our beach restaurant. I then had Olivia and our cook accompany the tourist to another beach for safety. I went to Mulege and got the Ministero Publico(local state police) and gave them money for gas as they said they needed to come to Buenaventura immediately. After visiting the local Marines I returned to our beach and The Ministero Publico were talking to the shooting man. I identified him as the shooter, but the police just told me to leave. They (M.P.) told me to go back to the restaurant. I did. When they came by truck the two police told me that I would need to go to Mulege tomorrow and make a report. I told them this was a joke and something needed to be done now. They in turned told me I did not respect them and they were leaving. I said people's lives were almost lost and you are leaving? I asked for their names because I was going to make a report and they refused, saying I would have to get them in Mulege. Jim Christopher, U.S. Consulate of Mulege came here claiming the officers were upset that I said I did not trust them and I was to make an apology. This seems to be of much more importance that people being nearly killed and protecting us. I have apologized in person to these two, but will also do so in writing when it is possible. Through out the night shots could be heard. Maybe around 25 shots I counted.

It is now the morning of day four. Gunshots are sporadic. I think done to try and scare us. Our entrances have been blocked with boulders and ropes tied across all ways coming and going. These guys are walking around with illegal firearms and threaten us whenever we go near our road out. We are awaiting the help from the Mexican government. We are not afraid. We just want the Government to assume responsibility and do something. Unreal.....Thought I would never agree with this but, DO NOT COME TO MEXICO

DENNIS - 2-8-2012 at 05:29 PM

I wish them well...as well as justice...and revenge. This is heavy duty sht. If all the authorities are bought and paid for, Mark and Olivia, under siege, are history.

BajaNews - 2-8-2012 at 05:30 PM

A photo comment from Mark:

"Thanks for all your support.... I think the banditos think we have no way to communicate. We are allright and there is nothing you can do in this Mexican Standoff. Lets hope for the best... I will make more posts later."

mtgoat666 - 2-8-2012 at 05:32 PM

Yikes!

It is astounding that the local or state authorities tolerate wild west behavior like this -- allowing such behavior will just be another dozen coffin nails in their tourism.

There are a lot of nomads that seem to lap up info from ramsanus (aka Rafael Munoz Martinez)... no comment!

tripledigitken - 2-8-2012 at 05:37 PM

Sorry to hear of this happening to Mark and Olivia.

I stopped by there a couple of weeks ago and had a beer with Mark, and he seemed upbeat about the future.


Ken




[Edited on 2-10-2012 by tripledigitken]

Islandbuilder - 2-8-2012 at 05:40 PM

Mark and Olivia,
We drove by your place this morning, and I again was struck by what a beautiful place it is. I can understand your willingness to fight for it, I just hope that you don't have to pay a higher price.

I can't do anything more than to hope that you have good luck, and can prevail over what looks like the powers aligned against you.

Be careful. Try wasp spray, much cheaper than Bear Spray.

David K - 2-8-2012 at 05:46 PM

Hang in there Mark and Olivia!

BajaNews - 2-8-2012 at 05:47 PM

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3251066399312

Posted Monday (approx 6pm MST), Feb 6, 2012
by Mark Burbey





Photo of one of my enemies thugs threatening me with his gun!

Remember the "Once in a Lifetime" song?
Sometimes I feel it.
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself-Well...How did I get here?

Gawd D.?






[Edited on 2-9-2012 by BajaNews]

rts551 - 2-8-2012 at 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I wish them well...as well as justice...and revenge. This is heavy duty sht. If all the authorities are bought and paid for, Mark and Olivia, under siege, are history.


Dennis
All the authorities including Jim Christopher, U.S. Consulate??/

or is there more to the story.... if the Consulate is bought and paid for, then that is a serious accusation that should be forwarded to the proper authorities.

sanquintinsince73 - 2-8-2012 at 05:55 PM

I just sent the entire post to the State Department.

Ateo - 2-8-2012 at 06:04 PM

This doesn't look good. Hopefully you get some support from the authorities.

sanquintinsince73 - 2-8-2012 at 06:12 PM

I also just sent the post to KUSI. I am under the assumption that they are under siege as we speak; am I correct?

BajaNomad - 2-8-2012 at 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
... they are under siege as we speak; am I correct?


That appears to be correct.

GLNaeve - 2-8-2012 at 06:47 PM

Hay sanquintainsince73,
Great ideas sending the post. Can you follow-up with a direct contact, via phone?

BajaNomad - 2-8-2012 at 07:01 PM

Someone asked me if this might be a phony or fake story.

I appreciate the concern, but it's not. It's a legitimate situation Mark & Olivia are presently faced with.

-
Doug

Ateo - 2-8-2012 at 07:18 PM

If San q since 73 is sending to kusi, we need more info and pictures. I don't think there's enough info here for a tv news producer to put on the air. It's worthy, but you know how the news is.....

Having said this - good luck!

mulegemichael - 2-8-2012 at 07:21 PM

jim christopher is my next door neighbor here in mulege...he IS NOT "bought and paid for"....IMHO...and a lot of other folks.

shari - 2-8-2012 at 07:21 PM

oh man...how very scary indeed.

hey marc if you have internet why dont you contact Colectivo Pericu.

rts551 - 2-8-2012 at 07:25 PM

read his facebook for more info.

He says he used 10 machine toting policeman (1 Dec) to take over the beach house.

"Picture of our new beach house. It was repossesed yesterday with 10 police with machine guns."

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2744172527282&set...


[Edited on 2-9-2012 by rts551]

shari - 2-8-2012 at 08:21 PM

it is now being reported in the Colectivo Pericu

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/a-balazos-di...

tripledigitken - 2-8-2012 at 09:03 PM

Good on you. Wish I was there to join you.

MexicoTed - 2-8-2012 at 09:03 PM

Here's latest post from Mark in case you are not reading his Facebook page.

2/8 @7:30pm

Yesterday, Monday(day 2) men were walking across our estuary with pistols and rifles. Continually challenging us. We made attempts to have the police come and help us get our papers and important items from our house. The police sent me emails that they were going to report me to immigration. Two shots were fired over two Canadian tourists as they left our driveway. Jim Christopher, U.S. Consulate of Mulege came here claiming the officers were upset and that I said I did not trust them and I was to make an apology. This seems to be of much more importance that people being nearly killed and protecting us. I have apologized in person to these two, but will also do so in writing when it is possible. About 6PM fires were made on the other beach with tires and materials. Our house was broken into and through binoculars I could see people taking our belongings out and burning them on the fire. After many attempts to get the police here to help they did show at 9 PM. They told me to not get too excited. I told them I would try and not get excited. The police made a drive through on the other side with a spotlight and returned. They did ask about our house and they said they were burning trash. Nothing was done, nothing. All through the day gunshots were heard and I reported them by emails as they happened. Olivia did go to Mulege and to make the report as requested. When she arrived she was informed that they were closed because it was a holiday and she will need to return on Tuesday.

Today (Tuesday) 9:30AM Olivia went in person to the Mulege police. Olivia was very afraid to leave because of having these men pacing back and forth in front. I am staying here by myself. At 10 am this morning two persons one with a shotgun constructed a barrier out by the highway consisting of rocks and boulders. Ropes have been tied at all angles to prevent anyone from entering or leaving. Earlier the man with the shotgun was threatening to walk over yelling things I could not understand from here. These people causing this turmoil I believe are not from this area or state. All sales trucks/persons and customers trying to enter our restaurant and land are turned away by armed thugs. We have awaited all day for some kind of assistance. None has come. I've been emailing continuously to top officials for urgent help. When Olivia returned from Mulege she was accompanied by the police. They came to make a report on our house robbery. They were denied any entry. The police told her she could not go thru and that if she wanted to go to our business she would have to go clime down the mountain. She did! On her butt!

We are essentially held captive at the moment with men patrolling outside with guns.
If I have to I will defend myself with full force.

It is now the Wednesday, morning of day four. Gunshots are sporadic. I think done to try and scare us. Driving fast and opening doors of the vehicles showing us their guns. Our entrances have been blocked with boulders and ropes tied across all ways coming and going. These guys are walking around with illegal firearms and threaten us whenever we go near our road out. We are awaiting the help from the Mexican government.
It is the morning of Wed. Feb. 8 and we have no assistance in this matter. Our cook Bertha came by bus(we tried to have her notified not to come) she was forced out at gunpoint. Bertha is a simple person raised 6 children on her own and does not read or write, but works hard.
Two officials showed up tonight at 7 pm. The wanted to know if we wanted to leave and we declined. They promise service fast! I'm so relieved:) haha
Today the Munoz crew were walking by our restaurant at about 20 yards. Of course they think they are macho men.
Thanks to all our friends who have known what we have endured. Munoz people are now living in our house using my generator for power etc. etc. I'm sure all our belongings are gone. Wish I would have scanned my kids pictures.

I do believe these people are drug related. For some reason they want our place.
We are not afraid. We just want the Government to assume responsibility and do something. Unreal.....

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by MexicoTed]

Woooosh - 2-8-2012 at 11:20 PM

"I believe these people are drug related. For some reason they want our place." As far as I know Rafael Munoz is in the real estate business, not drugs. He posts here as Ramuma53 on Baja Real Estate advice. He hasn't posted in a while though.

These hoodlums are shooting guns night and day and the local police are afraid of them. They are already living in your house and have burned your personal property. You are a respected local businessman with a Mexican wife and yet the police are doing nothing to help you? Blockades? That's not a real estate repossession imho. If your property could be a good location for moving drugs- perhaps that is what they really want. Not many local or state police will mess with Chapo if it is him though. Military maybe. Your best hope is this story goes big, fast- so these guys find an easier target.

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 04:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
If your property could be a good location for moving drugs- perhaps that is what they really want.


Then...why all the theatrics? The terrorism? What's to stop them from just marching in and taking over? Doesn't sound like they would have too much resistance.

Cypress - 2-9-2012 at 06:16 AM

So much for police protection in the Mulege area. Somebody's gonna get injured before this is over. If the local law won't help, maybe the state cops or military will? And those worthless local guys should be fired.

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2012 at 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoTed
Here's latest post from Mark in case you are not reading his Facebook page.

2/8 @7:30pm

Yesterday, Monday(day 2) men were walking across our estuary with pistols and rifles. Continually challenging us. We made attempts to have the police come and help us get our papers and important items from our house. The police sent me emails that they were going to report me to immigration. Two shots were fired over two Canadian tourists as they left our driveway. Jim Christopher, U.S. Consulate of Mulege came here claiming the officers were upset and that I said I did not trust them and I was to make an apology. This seems to be of much more importance that people being nearly killed and protecting us. I have apologized in person to these two, but will also do so in writing when it is possible. About 6PM fires were made on the other beach with tires and materials. Our house was broken into and through binoculars I could see people taking our belongings out and burning them on the fire. After many attempts to get the police here to help they did show at 9 PM. They told me to not get too excited. I told them I would try and not get excited. The police made a drive through on the other side with a spotlight and returned. They did ask about our house and they said they were burning trash. Nothing was done, nothing. All through the day gunshots were heard and I reported them by emails as they happened. Olivia did go to Mulege and to make the report as requested. When she arrived she was informed that they were closed because it was a holiday and she will need to return on Tuesday.

Today (Tuesday) 9:30AM Olivia went in person to the Mulege police. Olivia was very afraid to leave because of having these men pacing back and forth in front. I am staying here by myself. At 10 am this morning two persons one with a shotgun constructed a barrier out by the highway consisting of rocks and boulders. Ropes have been tied at all angles to prevent anyone from entering or leaving. Earlier the man with the shotgun was threatening to walk over yelling things I could not understand from here. These people causing this turmoil I believe are not from this area or state. All sales trucks/persons and customers trying to enter our restaurant and land are turned away by armed thugs. We have awaited all day for some kind of assistance. None has come. I've been emailing continuously to top officials for urgent help. When Olivia returned from Mulege she was accompanied by the police. They came to make a report on our house robbery. They were denied any entry. The police told her she could not go thru and that if she wanted to go to our business she would have to go clime down the mountain. She did! On her butt!

We are essentially held captive at the moment with men patrolling outside with guns.
If I have to I will defend myself with full force.

It is now the Wednesday, morning of day four. Gunshots are sporadic. I think done to try and scare us. Driving fast and opening doors of the vehicles showing us their guns. Our entrances have been blocked with boulders and ropes tied across all ways coming and going. These guys are walking around with illegal firearms and threaten us whenever we go near our road out. We are awaiting the help from the Mexican government.
It is the morning of Wed. Feb. 8 and we have no assistance in this matter. Our cook Bertha came by bus(we tried to have her notified not to come) she was forced out at gunpoint. Bertha is a simple person raised 6 children on her own and does not read or write, but works hard.
Two officials showed up tonight at 7 pm. The wanted to know if we wanted to leave and we declined. They promise service fast! I'm so relieved:) haha
Today the Munoz crew were walking by our restaurant at about 20 yards. Of course they think they are macho men.
Thanks to all our friends who have known what we have endured. Munoz people are now living in our house using my generator for power etc. etc. I'm sure all our belongings are gone. Wish I would have scanned my kids pictures.

I do believe these people are drug related. For some reason they want our place.
We are not afraid. We just want the Government to assume responsibility and do something. Unreal.....

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by MexicoTed]


if the authorities have truly not responded to end this armed standoff in 4 days it has gon on, it appears that the state and local police functions of baja sur are nonexistant and drug gangs and thugs have finally won.
i think this is really a sign of the end of tourism in baja sur.

note to the government: are you really allowing drug gangs or raphael munoz to sieze restaurants/hotels at gunpoint while they are occupied by tourists?

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2012 at 06:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
So much for police protection in the Mulege area. Somebody's gonna get injured before this is over. If the local law won't help, maybe the state cops or military will? And those worthless local guys should be fired.


it has gone on for multiple days and it appears that cops have hardly bothered to even check on the situation.

it is obvious that there is no functional law enforcement in mulege, no local, no state, no fed. zip. nada. not a friggin law officer.

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2012 at 06:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
These hoodlums are shooting guns night and day and the local police are afraid of them. They are already living in your house and have burned your personal property. You are a respected local businessman with a Mexican wife and yet the police are doing nothing to help you? Blockades?

Your best hope is this story goes big, fast- so these guys find an easier target.

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Woooosh]


the message here: there is no law in mulege. it is clear that mulege has fallen off the map of civilization. local, state and federal govt are clearly condoning the siege.

really, if govt and law enforcement allows something to go on like this for more than 12 hrs, it is clear there is no functional law enforcement. and if there is zero law enforcement, will another tourist ever visit mulege?

bajario - 2-9-2012 at 06:57 AM

This is frightening. Where is the military? Is there nothing they can do in this situation?

The audacity and the open carrying of arms shows you the narcos can now do what ever they want. In broad daylight with immunity.

I agree if this story got big fast maybe something will get done. But most likely only temporary.

Hope this has a positive outcome for Marc, Olivia, and Mexico's sake.

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2012 at 07:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajario
This is frightening. Where is the military?


the military is just north up the road at the san ignacio check point, they are very busy ignoring the situation! perhaps you can call back next week to see if they can fit you in their schedule!

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 07:15 AM

Any of you folks in Mulege have anything to add here? Why all the silence?

tripledigitken - 2-9-2012 at 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by bajario
This is frightening. Where is the military?


the military is just north up the road at the san ignacio check point, they are very busy ignoring the situation! perhaps you can call back next week to see if they can fit you in their schedule!


Not to be picky, but they are a lot closer than that. There is a military base south of Santa Rosalia, in San Lucas. The Marina boys are usually visible in their stake bed trucks daily in the northern part of Bahia de Concepcion.

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by tripledigitken]

tripledigitken - 2-9-2012 at 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Any of you folks in Mulege have anything to add here? Why all the silence?


How about a "photo of the day" of the barricaded driveway at San Buenaventura?

bajario - 2-9-2012 at 07:24 AM

Which makes this even more incredible. The fact there so close but yet make it so obvious the whole military is turned to the dark side.

????

baja1943 - 2-9-2012 at 08:03 AM

Aren't these the same people that were involved in the turtle thread with Munoz a few years ago?

rts551 - 2-9-2012 at 08:06 AM

Why does Mark think this is drug related? I would be careful of going there. Some things don't add up.

Local police not on his side
military not helping
Consulate not on his side
Apology to police
Threat of deportation
Marc alleging drugs involved.....

mulegemichael - 2-9-2012 at 08:11 AM

yes, these are the same folks....what baffles me is that there is a large contingency of marines based here in mulege; their presence is everywhere around town...i just don't understand why they aren't down there....this is pretty friggin scary.

tripledigitken - 2-9-2012 at 08:16 AM

Roger,

Just a photo, no shots fired. Light is always a good start to get the roaches to scatter.

Good for you.

Ken

mcfez - 2-9-2012 at 08:28 AM

Where's all the neighbors during all this happening?

latina - 2-9-2012 at 08:37 AM

This situation is beyond logic. Mark & Olivia are in their 5th day of being under siege and the authorities have not taken control of a very volatile situation.

They are running a business that caters to tourists, truck drivers, business people who travel past their property via the only highway route up and down the peninsula to La Paz. Not only are Mark & Olivia having to fend for themselves, so are all the travellers who innocently may try to enter their property. It is unacceptable that thugs unlawfully carrying guns, threatening people with them, barricading their property and destroying their property for 4 days have not been apprehended!

Besides the strong possibility that these thugs are hyped up on meth, they are obviously not afraid of being arrested, or they wouldn't be brandishing their weapons in broad daylight, where any passerby could see them...

Mark & Olivia, are good people. They fought for years through the court system, spending very hard-earned money, just to defend what was rightfully theirs. When they finally succeeded, the s**t hit the fan. This is what happens when a bully wants something that belongs to someone else and isn't getting his way.

For the sake of Mark & Olivia, and the safety of all of us who could just as easily find ourselves in a similar situation, let's pray that the authorities take action, before someone is physically hurt, or worse...

Skipjack Joe - 2-9-2012 at 08:51 AM

As rts551 suggests, if these truly are thugs then why doesn't the police or any other official organization help?

Diver - 2-9-2012 at 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Where's all the neighbors during all this happening?


Not many close neighbors there.
Playa El Requeson campground is to the south and it's a ways to any houses to the north.

sanquintinsince73 - 2-9-2012 at 09:08 AM

Just called my cousin in D.C., he is an aide to Lucille Royball-Allard. I gave him the "Bajanomad" link and I asked him to read the post's and then try to get State to do something.

Is this still ongoing? Does anyone have a phone number for them?

Pescador - 2-9-2012 at 09:10 AM

I know it is a little confusing and there is a lot of misinformation being tossed about, but AKMAX seems to be heading in the right direction. The municipal police of Mulege will probably not do anything and do not have the training or ability to handle a situation like this, but the Ministerial Police right across from the in-town gas station, do have the authority, ability, and training to handle this. The military base, which is located in San Lucas, not San Bruno, could prove to be some help but would need to be requested from the proper authorities.

I took my sister to the airport in Loreto yesterday and we were going to stop by to see what was going on and have dinner, but there were no lights on in the restaurant and for the first time I saw a vehicle behind the rope in the hotel area, so we went on in to Mulege for dinner.

sanquintinsince73 - 2-9-2012 at 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Just called my cousin in D.C., he is an aide to Lucille Royball-Allard. I gave him the "Bajanomad" link and I asked him to read the post's and then try to get State to do something.

Is this still ongoing? Does anyone have a phone number for them?


I need the exact name of the town they are in and how far from Mulege.

bajaguy - 2-9-2012 at 09:21 AM

Somebody needs to call the military and mention "drugs and guns"...........

latina - 2-9-2012 at 09:26 AM

Location is on Google Earth: Hotel San Buenaventura, B.C.S., Mexico
2638'34.64"N 11150'42.54"W
For those of you who don't realize how "islolated" they are you will be able to see for yourself the little cove and property they are trying to defend by themselves...

norte - 2-9-2012 at 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
Folks, just because you don't read it on Baja Nomads, it doesn't mean that it has not been noticed and commented on locally. This is an old arguement that continues to fester.


Ahhhh but Nominds needs a distraction from Mengano and another problem to slve!

sanquintinsince73 - 2-9-2012 at 09:35 AM

I just notified SEDENA.

Google Map

tripledigitken - 2-9-2012 at 09:57 AM

40km south of Mulege



[Edited on 2-9-2012 by tripledigitken]

sanquintinsince73 - 2-9-2012 at 10:04 AM

Every little bit helps. Just requested that "BorderLand Beat" post the story.

Pescador - 2-9-2012 at 10:14 AM

Okay, the head office of Policia Ministerial in Santa Rosalia is up by the Pepsi plant and soccer field. When these guys say jump, everyone asks how high (with their knees shaking all the while), so if they are on it, then things are happening.
I kept wondering whose house was the furthest north on the beach, but now that is answered, so hopefully this thing can be ended soon.

wessongroup - 2-9-2012 at 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Roger,

Just a photo, no shots fired. Light is always a good start to get the roaches to scatter.

Good for you.

Ken


Ditto's ...

watizname - 2-9-2012 at 11:54 AM

GUNS???----WTF------If these guys are carrying in daylight, they must have some serious juice. No????:wow:

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by watizname
GUNS???----WTF------If these guys are carrying in daylight, they must have some serious juice. No????:wow:


You bet.
Where is Ramuma these days?

latina - 2-9-2012 at 12:05 PM

Thank you akmaxx, for being there to support Mark & Olivia. By now they must be totally worn out, which is what I guess is the objective of this latest seige...to keep bullying them in an effort to break them down so they will give up... What a sad commentary on the justice "system"....

rts551 - 2-9-2012 at 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by latina
Thank you akmaxx, for being there to support Mark & Olivia. By now they must be totally worn out, which is what I guess is the objective of this latest seige...to keep bullying them in an effort to break them down so they will give up... What a sad commentary on the justice "system"....


Looks like the justice system is at work too me. Maybe not the way you would like, but people in "high places" and the Policia Ministeria obviously are aware and working the situation to include "no trespassing". We need to be careful though, when calling Sec of State officials and local/State police crooked. That can maybe get you deported.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by watizname
GUNS???----WTF------If these guys are carrying in daylight, they must have some serious juice. No????:wow:


You bet.
Where is Ramuma these days?

Haven't heard from him in a month or so. Hopefully he will chime in, but "subject" of this thread hides the seriousness of what is going on. It doesn't stand out and he may not see it. I'll send him a direct e-mail.

gallesram - 2-9-2012 at 12:36 PM

What's troubling about this whole story is the lack of police cooperation, let alone protection. Although remote, the Bay is a popular tourist destination for gringos and locals (think Semana Santa & summer vacations). I have pulled up to Mark & Olivia's on my boat on several occasions for a few beers and to hear stories about life in the area. It would never occur to me that I might be confronted on such a visit by a gun-toting lunatic. Whatever their dispute, I can't believe that it justifies someone coming in and shooting in an area where tourists frequent; this is hardly some backwood barrio that we are all supposed to avoid in order to stay clear of the violence that exists elsewhere in Mexico.

I hope that the message gets back to the Mulege police that they are there to protect the citizens of the community, regardless of whether they are Mexicans or foreigners. For the benefit of that region, I also hope that an agency with authority intervenes and diffuses this immediately. The last thing that Mulege and the area needs is this type of situation to exist.

Mark & Olivia need our support and that of the expat community down there. I have already told the people I know in Mulege about this and others need to spread the word as well. People love the area for its solitude and "authentic" Mexican feel, as well as the sheer physical beauty. We need to do everything we can to protect that. When disputes can lead to this type of brazen & outrageous behavior with no intervention, then we're all in trouble.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I hope that the message gets back to the Mulege police that they are there to protect the citizens of the community, regardless of whether they are Mexicans or foreigners.


If they need to be reminded, I'd say it's time to start packing.

Are Bob and Susan anywhere near all this? Bob usually plays his cards close to the chest when there's trouble in his backyard.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I hope that the message gets back to the Mulege police that they are there to protect the citizens of the community, regardless of whether they are Mexicans or foreigners.


If they need to be reminded, I'd say it's time to start packing.

Are Bob and Susan anywhere near all this? Bob usually plays his cards close to the chest when there's trouble in his backyard.

If this is a land dispute, don't count on any help. Even if Bob gets beat-up they won't do anything. I've even asked the Mayor of Rosarito for help when we were threatened and physically assaulted over our concession and we were ignored by every law enforcement agency as well. When it gets to this level, no one will interfere because until they find out who is "pulling the strings" in this situation- they don't want to take a chance of being on the "wrong side" of that person... so they do nothing. Hard for me to believe Raphael has this much clout. He has relatives in the Military- I would think he would have used them if needed to, not thugs.

It is hard to explain how it feels to be "left out to dry" by our host country, but that's the way it is down here when the rubber meets the road.

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Woooosh]

J.P. - 2-9-2012 at 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I hope that the message gets back to the Mulege police that they are there to protect the citizens of the community, regardless of whether they are Mexicans or foreigners.

















































If they need to be reminded, I'd say it's time to start packing.

Are Bob and Susan anywhere near all this? Bob usually plays his cards close to the chest when there's trouble in his backyard.










AS you this is not a new thing ,it has been elvolving for several years, I know Mark and Olivia ant think they are alwright people. If it is or has ever been as represented it looks if end to the conflict may be near. armed men can and usually lead to one conclusion.

Lee - 2-9-2012 at 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
It is hard to explain how it feels to be "left out to dry" by our host country, but that's the way it is down here when the rubber meets the road.
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Woooosh]


If you're in Baja, and not a MX citizen, or National, you have no rights. Well, guess you have some -- but not when push comes to shove. And then it comes down (in MX) to who you know, how well connected you are.

I'm in favor of paying people off, but that's me.

wessongroup - 2-9-2012 at 01:04 PM

When in Rome ???

gallesram - 2-9-2012 at 01:05 PM

I still can't get over the fact that these guys are shooting guns in a tourist spot over a land dispute, and there's nothing done to stop it. Tourism is a serious part of the Mexican economy and I thought that the authorities would protect it. I guess I'm just looking at this through my Gringo eyes, which is probably a mistake. I'm not saying that one side is right and the other is wrong; it's the situation (guns being shot in a tourist spot) that drives me crazy.

I avoid Compton, the south Bronx, the slums of Rio and other nototriously dangerous areas in the world. I take my family to the Bay of Concepcion to ski, swim and enjoy ourselves since it's a safe place. That's where I'm having trouble with this situation; I could have been in that spot with my family and this could have happened; not a random 20-second robbery (which could happen anywhere), but a prolonged dangerous situation involving loaded guns which the police ignore. I'm still shaking my head.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
It is hard to explain how it feels to be "left out to dry" by our host country, but that's the way it is down here when the rubber meets the road.
[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Woooosh]


If you're in Baja, and not a MX citizen, or National, you have no rights. Well, guess you have some -- but not when push comes to shove. And then it comes down (in MX) to who you know, how well connected you are.

I'm in favor of paying people off, but that's me.


A "gringo" would not know who to pay or how much. Likely they would just set him up and take his money. Mexican banditos stick together. They hate to say no to each other and that they cannot help the person find a "solution". Just they way it is when times get rough. In good times- it's all good of course! I have actually had a Rosarito Beach court official lie to my face and then ask for a bribe if I wanted the information I needed. That was an eye opener for me.

norte - 2-9-2012 at 01:10 PM

welcome to Mexico


Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I still can't get over the fact that these guys are shooting guns in a tourist spot over a land dispute, and there's nothing done to stop it. Tourism is a serious part of the Mexican economy and I thought that the authorities would protect it. I guess I'm just looking at this through my Gringo eyes, which is probably a mistake. I'm not saying that one side is right and the other is wrong; it's the situation (guns being shot in a tourist spot) that drives me crazy.

I avoid Compton, the south Bronx, the slums of Rio and other nototriously dangerous areas in the world. I take my family to the Bay of Concepcion to ski, swim and enjoy ourselves since it's a safe place. That's where I'm having trouble with this situation; I could have been in that spot with my family and this could have happened; not a random 20-second robbery (which could happen anywhere), but a prolonged dangerous situation involving loaded guns which the police ignore. I'm still shaking my head.

gallesram - 2-9-2012 at 01:14 PM

akmaxx, I hope you're right; that would be awesome!!

Diver - 2-9-2012 at 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

Are Bob and Susan anywhere near all this?


Their place is about 10+ miles to the north, closer to Mulege'.
I'm pretty sure they have clear title to their property via a Mexican Corp.

But then, maybe Ramuna likes their property too ?
.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by akmaxx
About six truckloads of Ministerios (with shotguns) at the Pemex in Mulege at 1245. Maybe headed your way to wrap up this problem.



It's good to be prepared for all eventuallities, so what will go through your mind if they drive right on by without stopping?
Kevlar would be the first thing on mine.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 01:21 PM

what time are you guys on? It's only 12:21 as I type this...

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
what time are you guys on? It's only 12:21 as I type this...



I'm on bar time. What about you? :lol:

Sandlefoot - 2-9-2012 at 01:23 PM

They are on cen***l ( Opps!!! Mountain) time. The time changes between the two states on the penisula.

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by Sandlefoot]

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
what time are you guys on? It's only 12:21 as I type this...


I'm on bar time. What about you? :lol:

yup, 20 minutes fast. I actually have a whole day to kill... my time :)

BajaNomad - 2-9-2012 at 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sandlefoot
They are on central time. The time changes between the two states on the penisula.


Mountain Time in BCS - not Central. One hour ahead of BC and California USA.

BajaNomad - 2-9-2012 at 01:51 PM

Mark just updated FB...

"The state police are here and the Bad Guys are being hauled off in handcuffs. Will write more later I have to identify persons."

http://www.facebook.com/mjburbey




[Edited on 2-9-2012 by BajaNomad]

Sandlefoot - 2-9-2012 at 01:52 PM

Duh!!!! Must be east coast bar time!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Thanks for the correction!!!!

BajaNomad - 2-9-2012 at 01:56 PM

This is a personal response Mark wrote me about 7am - his time - this morning to a message I sent him privately last night. I asked him for permission to post this in public, which he gave me an OK on:

"Thanks for thinking of us. We are more use to the situation as the days go by. Munoz is behind it as the woman who orchestrate for him here is here now. Her name is Elizabeth Espinosa Mantano of Tijuana.

"We have been emailing all authorities from the start and pleading for help. I have many emails to prove it. I am hoping for the best and will continue doing so all day as we are kept here. You know a little of what we have been put through with the Munoz trying to take over Buenaventura. The other night when the Ministero Police came here and they just watched with us as they burned our belongings in plain view. It was too much for me. Then the guys want me to apologize!

"Bad things happen sometimes, and for me I will confront the problem best as possible and try to make it right. Baja will not become a better place by us or others walking away. It will become a better place by us staying and making it better. We are still proud of where we live and most of the people who surround us here in Baja Sur. If this activity is not made public then the "Bad Guys" will have the upper hand. We are staying here!"

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaNomad
Mark just updated FB...

"The state police are here and the Bad Guys are being hauled off in handcuffs. Will write more later I have to identify persons."

http://www.facebook.com/mjburbey

[Edited on 2-9-2012 by BajaNomad]

perhaps a happy ending is about to take place, or at least a stand-off for now. You'll know by how long they are kept in custody.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaNomad
"The state police are here and the Bad Guys are being hauled off in handcuffs. Will write more later I have to identify persons."



Mark's nervous nights are just beginning. What a shame.

angels4 - 2-9-2012 at 01:57 PM

Wishing the best of luck to Mark & Olivia. I forwarded the info to a local news exec, but who knows if he'll do anything with it. At least it is worth the effort.

desertcpl - 2-9-2012 at 02:05 PM

I wonder if any Nomads was watching all this and got some photos

sanquintinsince73 - 2-9-2012 at 02:10 PM

Thank God that this situation was resolved, for now. Slim Pickens was ready to rock.....

http://youtu.be/wcW_Ygs6hm0

MexicoTed - 2-9-2012 at 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I still can't get over the fact that these guys are shooting guns in a tourist spot over a land dispute, and there's nothing done to stop it. Tourism is a serious part of the Mexican economy and I thought that the authorities would protect it. I guess I'm just looking at this through my Gringo eyes, which is probably a mistake. I'm not saying that one side is right and the other is wrong; it's the situation (guns being shot in a tourist spot) that drives me crazy.

I avoid Compton, the south Bronx, the slums of Rio and other nototriously dangerous areas in the world. I take my family to the Bay of Concepcion to ski, swim and enjoy ourselves since it's a safe place. That's where I'm having trouble with this situation; I could have been in that spot with my family and this could have happened; not a random 20-second robbery (which could happen anywhere), but a prolonged dangerous situation involving loaded guns which the police ignore. I'm still shaking my head.


I agree gallesram. Being in the Mexico tourism business myself, this is never good. Especially since Bahia Concepcion is seen as a safe area. Also, being next to the Hwy 1. What if some tourists were returning from a great Baja trip and turned in to Mark and Olivia's right in the mess of this thing.

It needs to get father up the chain and then someone will deal with these gun-toting people.

Ted

angels4 - 2-9-2012 at 02:25 PM

Glad to hear justice has FINALLY been served. I also hope it is permanent, but I'm afraid they will have many sleepless nights. I am impressed by their strong will power and fortitude to defend their land.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoTed
It needs to get father up the chain and then someone will deal with these gun-toting people.

Ted


Hopefully, they'll deal with the one who hired them.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 03:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by angels4
Glad to hear justice has FINALLY been served. I also hope it is permanent, but I'm afraid they will have many sleepless nights. I am impressed by their strong will power and fortitude to defend their land.

I too have great respect for people with the pioneer spirit who defend their property and their rights.

angels4 - 2-9-2012 at 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by angels4
Glad to hear justice has FINALLY been served. I also hope it is permanent, but I'm afraid they will have many sleepless nights. I am impressed by their strong will power and fortitude to defend their land.

I too have great respect for people with the pioneer spirit who defend their property and their rights.


Woooosh! I'm afraid that it is heading that way not just in Baja but every where. That we must stand up for what we believe, even if we stand alone. But as we have seen in many past cases Nomads stand together, proud and tall. (Well except for me since I appear to be shrinking as I get older :?: :biggrin: )

Skipjack Joe - 2-9-2012 at 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaNomad
"The state police are here and the Bad Guys are being hauled off in handcuffs. Will write more later I have to identify persons."



Mark's nervous nights are just beginning. What a shame.


Yes, Ramuma could have solved the problem much easier by now. But I guess he didn't want the blood on his hands. Perhaps that's in the future.

Gotta hand it to him, though - that man sure loves them turtles.

Baja will not become a better place by us or others walking away.

mcfez - 2-9-2012 at 03:52 PM

Hell Yes!


I'd be extra careful from here on out. Perhaps having some folks stay there (as a group) will discourage any further issues. Just do something to secure your safety.

goldhuntress - 2-9-2012 at 03:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by angels4
Glad to hear justice has FINALLY been served. I also hope it is permanent, but I'm afraid they will have many sleepless nights. I am impressed by their strong will power and fortitude to defend their land.

I too have great respect for people with the pioneer spirit who defend their property and their rights.

I agree with you both, but, I was scared for them! Bullets flying overhead, yikes! They weren't very well equipped to defend themselves, bear spray vs. bullets. How can you be down there with the laws and law enforcement the way they are? You know I enjoyed reading Munoz's posts, if he is Ramuma53. He seemed OK to me, guess not, lol. Glad it's settled down for now anyway.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by goldhuntress
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by angels4
Glad to hear justice has FINALLY been served. I also hope it is permanent, but I'm afraid they will have many sleepless nights. I am impressed by their strong will power and fortitude to defend their land.

I too have great respect for people with the pioneer spirit who defend their property and their rights.

I agree with you both, but, I was scared for them! Bullets flying overhead, yikes! They weren't very well equipped to defend themselves, bear spray vs. bullets. How can you be down there with the laws and law enforcement the way they are? You know I enjoyed reading Munoz's posts, if he is Ramuma53. He seemed OK to me, guess not, lol. Glad it's settled down for now anyway.

I'd at least install a camera system.

gallesram - 2-9-2012 at 03:54 PM

They will certainly have my business in the future. And I have to say that I'm relieved that the Ministerio showed up in such force from Santa Rosalia and took care of this horrific problem. I hope that the bad guys know that the Mulege community won't tolerate this kind of vigilante justice. The local police should be pretty embarassed that it took the state police to intervene on such an obvious travesty.

Great work Mark & Olivia; they are both true pioneers! And great work to the Nomads for bringing this to light and exposing it. I wonder if the response would have been as strong if this board didn't exist.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
The local police should be pretty embarassed that it took the state police to intervene on such an obvious travesty.



Ohhh pleeeeze. Do you still see virtue in these guys? You can't. Tell me you don't. Please tell you don't. :?:

gallesram - 2-9-2012 at 04:08 PM

All I'm saying is that the police did show up with 6 trucks full of armed policemen. Yes, it took 4 days, but they did show up. I had always been told by the locals that Mulege police weren't the same corrupt cops that you see elsewhere in Mexico.

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I had always been told by the locals that Mulege police weren't the same corrupt cops that you see elsewhere in Mexico.



I guess you now have enough information to form your own opinion.
Think about it.

Diver - 2-9-2012 at 04:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I had always been told by the locals that Mulege police weren't the same corrupt cops that you see elsewhere in Mexico.


Yep, they're "different" corrupt cops than you see elsewhere in Mexico. :lol:

Lee - 2-9-2012 at 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
A "gringo" would not know who to pay or how much. Likely they would just set him up and take his money. Mexican banditos stick together. They hate to say no to each other and that they cannot help the person find a "solution".


You're right. I'm writing ''generally'' and early on. This situation seems like a drawn out process. And guns being shot seems to indicate that these thugs aren't afraid of being busted. Then you have the cops walking away? Sounds like people who know people. Not a good situation for a gringo to be in.

surfer jim - 2-9-2012 at 04:59 PM

What can prevent more "bad guys" from coming or those arrested from returning ?

[Edited on 2-10-2012 by surfer jim]

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
Quote:
Originally posted by gallesram
I had always been told by the locals that Mulege police weren't the same corrupt cops that you see elsewhere in Mexico.


Yep, they're "different" corrupt cops than you see elsewhere in Mexico. :lol:

I would certainly stop giving them free donuts!
:saint:

 Pages:  1    3  ..  17