BajaNomad - Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

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LisaR. - 2-9-2012 at 05:09 PM

Wow, I came upon this thread this morning, and I'm very relieved to hear how things turned out this time around. I hope that someday, Mark and Olivia can be done with all this junk and live in peace! Best of luck to them!

DENNIS - 2-9-2012 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
What can prevent more "bud guys" from coming or those arrested from returning ?

Perhaps if they find out who sent them, they can put the squeeze on him....unless, of course, he's a friend.....or rich.

Woooosh - 2-9-2012 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
What can prevent more "bud guys" from coming or those arrested from returning ?

Mexicans with powerful connections like these rarely negotiate a settlement. Why would they? If they negotiate they may loose or not get everything they could get by using the corruption route. They use what they know works. It seems like this has been a ten year battle that has come to a head. Whatever the end game is, it will be sooner rather than later. You will find out how powerful the person is pulling the strings by how long the suspects are held, if they were charged, and if they are charged with possessing and firing the guns. Only then can you estimate what the outcome will be imo.

[Edited on 2-10-2012 by Woooosh]

Pescador - 2-9-2012 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallesram
They will certainly have my business in the future. And I have to say that I'm relieved that the Ministerio showed up in such force from Santa Rosalia and took care of this horrific problem. I hope that the bad guys know that the Mulege community won't tolerate this kind of vigilante justice. The local police should be pretty embarassed that it took the state police to intervene on such an obvious travesty.

Great work Mark & Olivia; they are both true pioneers! And great work to the Nomads for bringing this to light and exposing it. I wonder if the response would have been as strong if this board didn't exist.

It was not the responsibility of the Mulege police, it was the jurisdiction of the Ministerial. This is not the United States.

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2012 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallesram
All I'm saying is that the police did show up with 6 trucks full of armed policemen. Yes, it took 4 days, but they did show up.

now we know the 911 (066?) response time for armed home invasion is 4 days :!:

goldhuntress - 2-9-2012 at 06:06 PM

Quote:

now we know the 911 (066?) response time for armed home invasion is 4 days :!:

mulegemichael - 2-9-2012 at 07:31 PM

gotta tell ya, marcos y olivia, i just don't know how you keep smiling through all this crap...it's been going on SO long now!...it's a relief THIS TIME it came out ok...

Hook - 2-9-2012 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
It was not the responsibility of the Mulege police, it was the jurisdiction of the Ministerial. This is not the United States.

Jim, what made it so? The location? The nature of the crime?

Ateo - 2-9-2012 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by gallesram
All I'm saying is that the police did show up with 6 trucks full of armed policemen. Yes, it took 4 days, but they did show up.

now we know the 911 (066?) response time for armed home invasion is 4 days :!:

Ouch. That hurts. Seriously. Here's to Baja 2049 when the cops are trusted and response times improve. No disrespect to Mark and Olivia. They are helping the future.

snowcat5 - 2-9-2012 at 08:30 PM

Seems to me , that if there were any Nomads traveling past M and O's place, maybe they could drop off a motion activated video camera system and some motion activated gate monitoring alarms. Cheap and effective. Cheap motion alarms that hang on doors or windows that alert you to intruders wouldn' t be a bad idea for their future, either.

rubencastillo - 2-9-2012 at 08:32 PM

Thank God they arested those clown's, and no one got hurt... Never been to there place, but will make sure the whole race team stops by in Nov. during the Baja 1000..God Bless Mark and Olivia, and the good Folk's here on Bajanomad .. Best web site ever.

David K - 2-9-2012 at 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Just called my cousin in D.C., he is an aide to Lucille Royball-Allard. I gave him the "Bajanomad" link and I asked him to read the post's and then try to get State to do something.

Is this still ongoing? Does anyone have a phone number for them?

I need the exact name of the town they are in and how far from Mulege.

There are not in any town... just their restaurant and the former Playa Buenaventura Hotel, next door... 25.7 miles south on Hwy. 1 from the Mulege Entrance road (next to the bridge). On the topo map (Almanac) is shown as 'Buenaventura' about a mile north of El Requeson.

David K - 2-9-2012 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by gallesram
I hope that the message gets back to the Mulege police that they are there to protect the citizens of the community, regardless of whether they are Mexicans or foreigners.

If they need to be reminded, I'd say it's time to start packing.

Are Bob and Susan anywhere near all this? Bob usually plays his cards close to the chest when there's trouble in his backyard.

Playa Frambes (Bob & Susan's) is 15 miles north of Buenaventura.

Pescador - 2-9-2012 at 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
It was not the responsibility of the Mulege police, it was the jurisdiction of the Ministerial. This is not the United States.

Jim, what made it so? The location? The nature of the crime?

It is a tough system to understand completely but when we had a rash of breakins in our little town, the local police department asked for assistance by the Judicial. Even friends who I know well were shaken up and really nervous when questioned by these guys. Everyone I have met is a real serious kinda person and the locals say that it is not unusual to get roughed up pretty good when they are investigating. They are federal and because Buenaventura is so far out of town, it is a waste of time to think that Mulege city police will respond to anything. They do not even like to go to Punta Chivato when there is a crime, but the Ministerial have Federal jurisdiction unless there is an overlay like in our town and then the locals have to ask for them to come in, although they told me that they do not always wait for that request if they think it is serious. The Federales which work the highway are a whole different branch of police and are mostly like our Highway Patrol, and I guess you could equate the Judicial with the FBI guys.
Here is a little more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Mexico

motoged - 2-9-2012 at 11:56 PM

I've got a bad feeling about this. I don't think this is over by a long shot.

And I hope a long shot doesn't end it. :?:

I sure hope I am wrong...

Pompano - 2-10-2012 at 08:06 AM

Well, if you move to Baja Sur seeking peace and quiet…and just to laze in your hammock soaking up some tranquility…YOU CAN DO IT ……Of course, every now and then dramatic events will rock your boat….

Recently, the hot news on our local coconut telegraph has been full of the most recent ‘takeover’ of Olivia and Mark’s cafe and home at Playa Buenaventura. An ongoing ordeal for the owners for a few years now; this time the news said it was a blockade by persons armed with a shotgun, no less.

So, on the morning of Feb 9th, a Thursday, I took a drive down the Bay a few miles to have breakfast at Olivia’s café. (Playa Buenaventura is a short drive of about 10 miles from mi casa in Coyote Bay and is just before the famous clamming beach at Playa Requeson.)

This is what happened:
As I came over the hill on the highway just before reaching Playa Buenaventura, I stopped to take a couple photos.

In case you have never driven past this developed beach, here it is…and also the layout of the hotel and Mark/Olivia’s café and home.

The entire community seemed pretty vacant as I drove nearer….just a couple vehicles strangely parked on the beachfront by the hotel area. Hmm…ominous already, I thought to myself.

I pulled off the highway and into the hotel/café shared entrance…and came upon a barricade. A vehicle was ahead of me..and was just backing up and turning around from a huge log across the road, blocking entry into the hotel area. As the vehicle loaded with kayaks (an SUV tourist couple) came past me and stopped, I asked if they had tried to go to the café? “No..can’t get there...plus the guy here says it is closed.”

Thanks, I said and pulled up to the barricade they had just left …and was just about to make a hard right to enter a portion of the café road that was still open, when first one, then two hombres came running up to my window. One was carrying a shotgun…at the ready and pointing in my direction. “Hmm...this should get interesting real fast..”

Before they could get their mouths open, I said, “Buenos días, señores ... Me voy a tomar el desayuno, ¿sabe usted si el café está abierto hoy?” (That was the real deal…as I was pretty hungry at that point, having nada except coffee since before dawn.)

Then things got a little weird. First the little guy starts explaining how I cannot use the entrance road to get to the café, then the bigger one (the one with the shotgun and wild eyes) shoves the smaller one out of the way and takes over our conversation…saying in broken English..(Guess my Spanish was nicht zu gut for him)
“No senor, for food, you must go to Mulege.” And then, holding his shotgun in his left hand, wild-eyes smiles and extends his right for a handshake. I shook his hand, and said...”Nice shotgun, are you hunting dove or quail?”

The guy is smiling all the while...being very ingratiating..like a Junior Chamber of Commerce novice who is running for mayor.

‘Hmm..wonder why this fellow is trying to be so nice to me?’

Now the absurd happens: I said to the shotgun-guy, “En estados unidos I hunt a lot with a shotgun, too…ganzos , patos, palomas (geese, ducks, and doves). I see you have an old Remington 870 pump there? And you have a choke on it, too..what we call a 'Dial-a-duck'? ”

Now he grins like a Cheshire cat…pumps the chambered shotshell out …and hands me the shotshell…then the shotgun! So there I am…sitting in my pickup with both arms out the window…a cartridge in my left hand and the shotgun in my right. This is just plain crazy, I am thinking…the guy seems rather proud of this old thunderstick …but is a few cards short of a full deck to hand it to a complete stranger.

I hand him back the shotgun, because this is an awkward position and the truth is, I was feeling a little embarrassed for the blockcader in his enthusiasm to show off his artillery.

I then examined the shotshell. It’s an older, regular 2 ¾ standard cartridge, not a 3” magnum. But the real strange part is ...the load is a low base #8. Hardly a round you would use against anything bigger than a dove or quail. Without a plug, an 870 pump shotgun can hold 5 rounds in the magazine tube and one up the snout…the others were most likely heavier loads, but not this #8 bird shot? Go figure.

I handed the shell back..and the fellow wanted to shake hands again. 3 times in all. My arm was getting tired from all that shaking. I really wanted to photo the two close-up next to the window…and even once thought of asking the short one to take my photo with the shotgun and the tall guy…but my sanity returned in time, thankfully.

The two said to back up…and then ‘adios’ as they walked back down past the barricade towards their cars parked on the beach. These were the only persons I saw in the hotel area. My impression of the taller one was…if I was going to try to drive or walk over the the café…the shotgun would come into play. Something was not quite right with that guy, and I sure didn’t want a couple hundred tiny pellets imbedded in my burro.

I got back up onto the main highway and turned left..south towards Requeson…so I could get a look down the hill at Olivia and Mark’s beach café.

…And hey! I think that’s Olivia...or some other gal..waving and looking at me with binoculars. Dang..now just how am I supposed to get down there? At the moment, I am a little ‘climbing challenged’, shall we say?

I cruise south a bit to see if there is another easier way to get down to the beach and backtrack to the cafe, but nope…no such luck.

Guess we’ll leave breakfast for another day, guys. Maybe manana? I see where my shotgun-sharing guy and his henceman have been hauled off in handcuffs? Good…can’t say much for his gun-handling safety. :rolleyes:

Well, that was another day in Baja. Never a dull moment, eh?
Mark and Olivia, as in your present case, I’ve had the opportunity to inform and use the judicial police in Sta. Rosalia for felony crimes…serious stuff… that have happened in Coyote Bay over the last 40 years. As Pescador and others mentioned earlier in this thread, the Mulege city police do not really have the proper jurisdiction in cases like yours….and a couple of my past homeowner events. (like my ill-fated burglar..)

Carumba! Que lastima, amigos…I sure hope these events settle down and then finally disappear for you guys. You’ve been through too much already. If you need any assistance…or need to sight in a rifle…. just send my drinking buddy with a note.

desertcpl - 2-10-2012 at 08:34 AM

great report Roger

surfer jim - 2-10-2012 at 09:00 AM

Good story but why put yourself in a position where nothing good can happen.

latina - 2-10-2012 at 09:14 AM

Thanks for the awesome photos and checking on my dear friends, Pompano...I am embarrassed about my previous rant, but I guess my worry over Mark & Olivia took away my good manners....Cheers and thanks again!

rts551 - 2-10-2012 at 09:17 AM

No facebook news since the police were there. Maybe they were all taken in?

Udo - 2-10-2012 at 09:23 AM

Nice shot with the parrot, Roger!

Here is mine:

Pompano - 2-10-2012 at 11:07 AM

Udo...that deserves some more parrot parodies.

'Never argue politics with your beer buddy.' You say left...I say right. So be it.

Here's his real buddy....

Being around parrots so much kinda grows on you....

dtbushpilot - 2-10-2012 at 02:16 PM

That bird would always bite the crap out of me but loved Jill....go figger...

Udo - 2-10-2012 at 02:26 PM

Birds are like dogs, cats horses, cows and pigs. They know who's that particular animal person.
On two separate occasions, there was a pig in Fiji who kept chasing me away and trying to bite me while he cuddled up to my wife.
The same thing happened in San Quintin to me.

Our bird, Chico,

on the other hand, respects me, but he loves my wife.

motoged - 2-10-2012 at 04:12 PM

Baja Nomads and ADHD...

Geezuz....we just went from a shoot-em-up to parrots :no:

rts551 - 2-10-2012 at 04:18 PM

Nothing on Facebook since the police arrived.

Woooosh - 2-10-2012 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Baja Nomads and ADHD...

Geezuz....we just went from a shoot-em-up to parrots :no:

hey watch it! "Senior moments" are liberating... sometimes. :lol:

motoged - 2-10-2012 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Baja Nomads and ADHD...

Geezuz....we just went from a shoot-em-up to parrots :no:

hey watch it! "Senior moments" are liberating... sometimes. :lol:

Be patient, Grasshopper....I am only 60....something to look forward to.

Roger...I appreciate your additional pics and comments, so not knocking the parrot diversion

dtbushpilot - 2-10-2012 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Baja Nomads and ADHD...

Geezuz....we just went from a shoot-em-up to parrots :no:

hey watch it! "Senior moments" are liberating... sometimes. :lol:

Be patient, Grasshopper....I am only 60....something to look forward to.

Roger...I appreciate your additional pics and comments, so not knocking the parrot diversion

That's just great, you're fine with Rogers parrot pictures but not mine.....some friend you are. Next time you crash and break your leg I'll just point and laugh.....just like the last time :lol:

Sorry for the hijack, let's all return to Playa Buenaventura......

Pompano - 2-10-2012 at 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Baja Nomads and ADHD...

Geezuz....we just went from a shoot-em-up to parrots :no:

hey watch it! "Senior moments" are liberating... sometimes. :lol:

Hey whoosh, Stop by Coyote, I will save a 'senior moment' for you. If this dottering oldster can manage to raise a Pacifico or two and tell you this truism:

"I am not young enough to know everything" :rolleyes:

rts551 - 2-10-2012 at 08:09 PM

more from Mark Burbey
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3284016143035&set...

BajaNomad - 2-10-2012 at 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
more from Mark Burbey
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3284016143035

Out from the siege and into the BLUE!

It is now Friday afternoon. Thank you all for the kind words and hopeful thoughts. The police showed up Thursday at 1:30 P.M. Lots of guys too. Some of the Bandito's were at hte hotel entrance with their guns and were immediately taken down. The rest followed and all were in handcuffs in a matter of minutes. I think they thought they could do anything and more. IF YOUR going to be a CRIMINAL at least be a smart one. The police rounded up the guns and I guess these guys had gotten a permit to have them here by the military. At least that is what I was told today. YOU CAN get a permit to have a gun in Mexico. It is suppose to be used for defense purposes or hunting only. YOU CAN'T us it for harassing Mark and Oli or others. Similar in the U.S., but more of a process.

On Thursday, day five. The raid occurred with speed that will impress anyone here. I am very proud that our local guys were involved and they seemed proud too. Our local police guys need approval from above before acting. It is the way it is! Of these bandits I knew only one. It was a woman named Elizabeth Espinosa Montano. She is the one in a picture. It was taken at a Military checkpoint north of Loreto a couple of years back. She is from Tijuana. The other guys are all from other states in Mexico. Five persons total in the arrest. They are all in the prison/jail just south of Santa Rosalia. Their local lawyer named Joaquin Cuesta should have been arrested with the rest of them. He was there witnessing many of these crimes and I feel was a part of it. Somehow he got away at the moment with some bail. Mulege citizens like Joaquin could support the community better sometimes. Just a bad apple for me.

Now, I believe the way or why it happened so fast is because of the Facebook and Baja Nomad response that happened. I'm sure of this and am so proud that so many seem to care. We were basically surrounded and told we could leave by water, but don't try and walk out. I am lucky to have a satellite internet here. My "Carlos Slim" phone hardly gets reception, so it was up to the internet. Also, the U.S Consulate was constantly in touch with us and seemed to really care. I'm sure John Callan at the Consulate in Tijuana helped make a difference. Most of all it came about because the internet was abuzz with a story and it really helped us out of a jam.

We have giving testimony all day.

This weekend I will upload some pictures.....we feel safer now. BIG THANKS to all from Oli and Marco at Buenaventura

Baja Nomad Thread:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58132

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by BajaNomad]

Woooosh - 2-10-2012 at 09:43 PM

So this lady was involved with moving drugs in your area two years ago. She lives in TJ and now shows up to claim a beach? Whatever for?

David K - 2-10-2012 at 10:03 PM

I only hope the nightmare with Muñoz is over...

We met Mark and Olivia in July 2009, which was not long after the long list of lies was started to harass these nice folks serving us travelers...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS, hey Roger... cool hat! :cool:

Bajalover - 2-10-2012 at 10:19 PM

Really sorry to hear about such an aweful experience and the fight to maintain your peice and quiet. Absolutely aweful...
Glad it all turned out good.

Side note: I wonder if something like that happened to local Latinos - what an uproar it would cause in the States compared to the silence in Mexico.
Hey....where's Obama now?

Sorry folks, it really urks me to hear about encounters like that and making me stay away from Baja. I hate that...........Baja's a great....place.
Stay safe and good luck.

David K - 2-10-2012 at 10:21 PM

They are a long ways from any town (Mulege)... and like in the Wild West, he with the biggest gun makes the rules!

KaceyJ - 2-10-2012 at 10:28 PM

I think the best to come from all this is to realize that in most circumstances patience is a necessity in Mexico. Going with the flow rather than against an imaginary current will get more done.

I hope all those that pass by , will stop and drop a few pesos for a cold one or two and enjoy some great company

Hope the luck continues

kc

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KaceyJ
I think the best to come from all this is to realize that in most circumstances patience is a necessity in Mexico. Going with the flow rather than against an imaginary current will get more done.

I hope all those that pass by , will stop and drop a few pesos for a cold one or two and enjoy some great company

Hope the luck continues

kc

The legal flow of Mexico is like molasses going uphill in November... the crooks and banditos are lightning fast though. The legal system can be delayed indefinitely down here if you have friends. Hard to win in the short term. You don't always have the luxury of going with the flow, even if you are right.

Diver - 2-11-2012 at 08:34 AM

I can't wait to hear the twist that Ramuna will put to all this.
No response to your email, eh Wooosh ?

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 10:08 AM

As everybody know, Olivia Higuera Aguilar has several criminal convictions and is well known as a narc as La Vaquera.
Federal Police has witnessed several times the drugs unloading on Olivias Restaurant, now se pretend to take over my hotel and using Peper spray attacked my security people, who reacted firing in to the air.
But as we all know, Olivia has some authorities support for obvious reasons $$$$$
and while she has 10 very serious criminal charges, 2 federal criminal charges and a few criminal convictions, she has never went to jail.
The Estate police without any court order, or absolutely no authority order, stormed the hotel and detained all my hotel staff, even my attorney Joaquin Cuesta without any legal cause.
so I am starting criminal federal charges in La Paz and Mexico city against the Baja Governor, Estate District attorney and local estate police for the illegal kidnapping of my hotel staff and attorney.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DENUNCIA DE HECHOS

C. Lic. Maricela Morales Ibáñez
Procuradora General de la República

Rafael Munoz Martínez, en ejercicio de mi propio derecho, señalando como domicilio para oír y recibir todo tipo de notificaciones y escritos, el ubicado en Avenida Francisco del Paso y Troncoso numero 317-A-1 Colonia Jardín Balbuena delegación Venustiano Carranza, México D.F. C.P. 15900, autorizando como mis representantes legales a los C.C. Lic. Jorge Luis Piedras Guerrero, Dr. Alberto Cándido Sánchez Pichardo, Joaquin Cuesta Romero ante usted con el debido respeto comparezco, para denunciar los siguientes hechos que a mi parecer constituyen un delito.

El dia de ayer, 9 de Febrero del 2011, me comunico la esposa de mi licenciado y apoderado legal Joaquín Cuesta que tanto el licenciado como la gerente de mi hotel y apoderada, junto con todos los empleados de mi hotel, habían sido detenidos por la policía ministerial y que los tenían incomunicados en la ciudad de Santa Rosalia municipio de Mulege Baja California Sur.
Es el caso que hasta horas después dejaron salir al licenciado Joaquín Cuesta después de declarar que el se encontraba en mi hotel como licenciado a cargo de las denuncias penales que tenemos contra la Sra. Olivia Higuera Aguilar y el norteamericano Mark Jerome Burbey, habiéndolo retenido ilegalmente y sin decirle cuales eran los cargos, sin orden de autoridad competente y por qué se habían introducido en una propiedad privada a detener a todo el personal de un hotel turístico en operación bajo el supuesto cargo de Delincuencia Organizada.
Cabe hacer mención que mi propiedad está amparada por título de propiedad numero 432949 expedido en base al expediente de Terrenos Nacionales 142524 inscrito ante el Registro Público de la Propiedad y el Comercio de la ciudad de Mulege B.C.S. bajo número 340 volumen 78 sección Primera del 30 de Julio del 2008, con antecedentes de propiedad que datan de 1971 y titulado desde 1992.
Esta propiedad privada, cuenta con certificado de libertad de gravámenes expedida en Diciembre del 2011 así como los permisos de la autoridad competente para operar como hotel desde 1996.
Es el caso que al dejar salir al C. Lic. En derecho y Contaduría Joaquín Cuesta me narro los siguientes hechos:
“la policía ministerial comandada por el C. Félix Murillo había ido a la playa aproximadamente a las 12 de la noche, les exhibió las armas y los permisos correspondientes, los ministeriales entraron en vehículo al restaurant de Olivia y duraron más de una hora con ellos, después se retiraron al poblado de Mulegé.
El día 8 de febrero, arribo a la playa el Comandante delegacional de la policía municipal, C. RAMON AGUNDEZ OJEDA, a quien lo recibió Alan pidiéndole información de lo que estaba haciendo, le dio un tour por los límites de la playa y les exhibió las DOS armas, le mostro que estaban descargadas y que los tiros a cuando menos dos metros de distancia, además le permitió ver los permisos originales del registro ante el CINE de la Paz, B.C.S.

El miércoles 8 de febrero 2012, aproximadamente las 8 pm arribo un vehículo a la playa intentando ingresar con Olivia, Alan acudió a ver de quien se trataba y los atendió, se trataba del Subprocurador de Averiguaciones Previas de la Zona Norte C. Lic Hugo Galindo Camacho y un acompañante, de lo comentado por Alan dijo que le pidieron quitar las rocas para entrar y no lo permitió, por lo que solo les autorizo ingresar con Olivia en forma peatonal, es preciso indicar que en ese momento estaba lloviendo, estuvieron con Olivia aproximadamente una hora, al salir salieron con documentos en una bolsa de plástico, diciéndole a Alan QUE ANDA MUY LEJOS DE ECATEPEC
En el operativo de ayer 9 de febrero, no se exhibió orden alguna, entraron con lujo de violencia, Alan me comento que lo golpearon en la cabeza y que pretenden inculpar a Juan de tener en su mano la escopeta, situación que no fue así, según lo relatado por Alan, ambos fueron sometidos por la fuerza y luego esposados.
Lamento no poder decirle más de los hechos ya que estos los conozco por los comentarios que me decía Alan, él es quien conoce los hechos completos, pero se encuentra incomunicado y el en CERESO de Santa Rosalía”.
Acto seguido entro a hablar con el Sub Procurador LIC. HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO a cargo del caso, le reclamo la detención sin orden de autoridad ni cargos en su contra o de los demás detenidos, a lo que el citado Sub Procurador solo contesto que le había ordenado la detención al AGENTE MINISTERIO PÚBLICO DE HEROICA MULEGE LIC. ALOY AGUIAR YEE por órdenes del Procurador General de Justicia de Baja California sur LIC. GAMIL ARREOLA LEAL y del Gobernador de Baja California Sur MARCOS ALBERTO COBARRUVIAS VILLASEÑOR sin más explicaciones dejando incomunicados a todos los demás detenidos y sin siquiera saber los motivos de la detención y sin siquiera mediar denuncia previa formal, por delitos que aun en ese momento se desconocían.
Cabe hacer mención, que la futura en ese momento denunciante, tiene varias denuncia penales del fuero común y federales, que nunca la procuraduría ha completado y que han sido denunciadas hasta la Presidencia de la Republica sin resultado alguno.
Como esto a mi muy leal saber y entender es una arbitrariedad de la autoridad, que constituye abuso de autoridad, daños en propiedad ajena, daño a las cosas, daños morales, allanamiento de morada, robo de vehículos, secuestro y otros que por el momento escapan a mi entender.
POR LO ANTERIOR, COMPAREZCO EN TIEMPO Y FORMA EN EL EJERCICIO DE MIS DERECHOS CONSTITUCIONALES A CON TODO EL RESPETO QUE MERECE LA AUTORIDAD A PEDIR:
1.- Se inicie averiguación previa federal en contra del C. Gobernador del Estado de Baja California Sur, por los delitos que pudieran constituir los hechos anteriormente narrados.
2.- Se inicie averiguación previa federal en contra del C. Procurador de justicia del estado de Baja California sur, por los delitos que pudieran constituir los hechos anteriormente narrados.
3.- Se inicie averiguación previa federal en contra del C. Sub Procurador zona norte de justicia del estado de Baja California Sur, por los delitos que pudieran constituir los hechos anteriormente narrados.
4.- Se inicie averiguación previa federal en contra de los agentes de la policía ministerial del estado de Baja California Sur, por los delitos que pudieran constituir los hechos anteriormente narrados.
5.- Se lleven a efecto las diligencias necesarias a efecto de que esa Representación Social Federal integre debidamente el cuerpo del delito y la probable responsabilidad del o los delitos en materia federal o local que surjan de lo anteriormente vertido.
Protesto lo necesario.
A la fecha de su presentación
Rafael Muñoz Martínez
C.C.P. C. Presidente de la Republica Mexicana.
C.C.P. C. Procurador General de Justicia.
C.C.P. Medios de difusión
C.C.P. Procurador de los Derechos Humanos
C.C.P. Archivo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was filed yesterday night in Mexico city in front of 20 National newspapers who will start writing starting today.

For you who do not know, the District attorney can only act when there is a crime already denounced and charges files, this was not the case and they acted without any authority.
Olivia is attacking and we will defend ourselves, now she is using weapons and we will respond in kind, the weapons we use are legal and registered to defend my property so we are not committing any crime here, let’s see if she is in the same case.

We can defend ourselves against the crooks, but we cannot defend ourselves against crooked authorities who act outside of the law for money, the only way is the legal way and we will denounce every illegal act the authority do and we will report it to the press.
This is escalating because the authority is not making their job and if Olivia and Mark keep attacking, they will be stopped, we will not falter but always in a legal way.

At this time all my hotel people incliding cooks and workers are being kept in Santa Rosalia jail without charges and incommunicated.
This is an abuse of power that we will denounce every place there is a legal option.

baja1943 - 2-11-2012 at 10:15 AM

Here we go again! The bum is getting ready for mucho face time. :lol:

Pescador - 2-11-2012 at 10:16 AM

If you thought the turtle thread was fun, just stick around, this one should get really interesting.

Unless the goofballs on the beach were licensed and registered, they are not allowed to carry guns.

Oh yeah, I am going to take a can of pepper spray and try to overcome a guy with a loaded gun.

What exactly is the point of bringing in a bunch of armed goons to protect a hotel that is falling apart and collapsing on the beach?

I have heard of having a dispute with your neighbors, but this one is is really stupid.

HOLY SH-t

captkw - 2-11-2012 at 10:18 AM

Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be useful........ K & T :cool:

Cypress - 2-11-2012 at 10:33 AM

The hotel? Attempted to rent a room there once. As far as I could tell there were no guests at the time, it was overpriced and poorly maintained. Decided against spending the night there.
Mark and Olivia's cafe? Great place. Both Mark and Olivia are friendly and helpful. Good people in my opinion. Hope they throw the key away on the thugs that have been harassing them.

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 11:04 AM

Skipjack Joe
I do not want blood on my hands and I never will, but we will defend ourselves with all the legal force we need, I will not surrender my property to crime or Olivia ambitions; this problem did not happen at the restaurant, it happened at the hotel grounds and think about that.

Of course if I were other people, they would have gone long ago; my problem is that I keep trying to act legally agains two narcs and crooks that bend the law and buy authorities.

I belive that crooked authorities are Mexico's problem, the narcs are only the result of that corruption, their actions are what we see, but they are allowed to act that way by crooked authorities.

When a crook is able to commit crime after crime after crime, he becomes bold and soon he even forget there are legal limits or authorities.

This last stand off happened on the hotel grounds and was caused by Olivia and Mark going IN TO MY PROPERTY where they are not wanted or allowed, they attacked my security people with pepper spray guns inside my property and my people just reacted to their attack inside MY PROPERTY.

Please some of you explain to me me, what Olivia and Mark were doing IN MY PROPERTY during the night with peper spray guns on their hands???????

If you can explain that one, I will be happy to order my people not to deffend theirselves. And if you can condone that act, I have no hope of reason.

Lets say, that this time they were very fortunate that my people were able to diferentiate the spray guns from fire guns, or the story would have been very different, but they are pushing their actions to places where they may get really hurt

My people did not killed them because they have my orders to think before they act, to act with restrain and only answer attacks with similar force and only when they are physically attacked and this time that was the case. Then you have to recognize that I am acting inside the law and she does not.

For every people who does not know, pepper guns are illegal in Mexico, they are considered chemical weapons and can be answered with force in kind.

If my people feel that their lives are in danger, they may deffend theirselves with all the legal force they feel they need. That is what Olivia and Mark have to think next time.

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 11:15 AM

Cypress
You may not like our services and you maylike what Olivia offer and smoke, but this is not a commercial dispute.

You feel that workers must be in jail becausde we deffended ourselves from a narc attack and that define your position and feelings toward legallity.

We will keep defending ourseves, just do not be in the middle or on the crooks side.

This time Oliovia and Mark were able to buy a local district attorney, who acted with power abuse and detained hotel workers and security people and attorneys, but I about to demostrate that we live in a lawful country, where the laws are upheld at the end; my actual enemy are the crooked authorities that perpetrated this helping illegally a nark and crook alredy with several covictions.

Let see who win this time, the law or the crook and this time it will be on National press.

goldhuntress - 2-11-2012 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be useful........ K & T :cool:

I agree, it is a nightmare. I just hope no one gets hurt or worse. Who owns what on that beach? Very confusing if you don't know the history. I don't like guns as intimidation and I don't like that someone would serve turtle soup either. I think when I go south I'll be driving right by this whole situation!

gnukid - 2-11-2012 at 11:29 AM

Things are often odd or confusing in life, but people should learn that things are exactly as they appear. There is no one but yourself to standup for yourself when things go weird.

Obviously the thieves believe they are justified in their actions and there are people who agree.

These absurd actions of the invaders are often difficult for foreigners to understand since in other parts of the world the corrupt behavior is often hidden, in corrupt contracts, while in Mexico it's often out in the open, in your face.

I have a great deal of respect for Mark and Olivia "cheers" for standing up for yourself to fight against corruption everywhere and also cheers for those who went to visit and attempt to support such as Pompano.

There is clearly a crisis of morality throughout the world, each person is self-responsible to standup for themselves and their community for what's right and to fight against corruption, no one will do it for you.

At this point, in addition to identifying the thieves, it's also worthwhile to point out those in the community who have sided with, promoted and supported these thieves throughout this nonsense, that would be Whoosh, he has demonstrated very poor common sense in selecting counsel. To me, at least, Whoosh's actions on this board are particularly idiotic and two faced or perhaps he is naive. Either way, an apology to the victims and to the members here is due.

This is a good lesson to learn from. Criminals will take your land and possessions if you let them often with support of law. And worse, there are people in our community naive enough to promote and support thieves who steal from good people.

Where-ever you are, we must stand up against thieves and corruption and not run, whether it be in the form of gun toting thieves, corrupt officials or naive friends.

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by gnukid]

Cypress - 2-11-2012 at 11:35 AM

ramuma53, You don't know me. I don't know you. I don't smoke "anything". You're implications could be taken as an insult by some. I met Mark and Olivia, liked 'em both. They're trying to make a living, running a cafe/bar. What do you doing for a living? :?:

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 11:35 AM

I can't really figure out what is going on. I also don't know the history here. Raphael's post and letter to the PGR says he has not been able to talk to any of his people who were arrested, so he can't tell the whole story with certainty in his complaint, and he says so. He gives the land title file numbers to some area of land at that location. The guns are legally registered, but in the letter Raphael does not seem to know the guns had been fired.

From there the two versions are very different. Raphael says the police know drugs were being unloaded at the restaurant and this was an organized crime operation. He claims by mistake the police seized his hotel and employees wrong are being wrongly held without charges.

Did I get that right?

norte - 2-11-2012 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goldhuntress

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be useful........ K & T :cool:

Good call. All the tough guys are a long ways away safely tucked behind their computers

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
At this point, in addition to identifying the thieves, it's also worthwhile to point out those in the community who have sided with, promoted and supported these thieves throughout this nonsense, that would be Whoosh, he has demonstrated very poor common sense in selecting counsel. To me, at least, Whoosh's actions on this board are particularly idiotic and two faced or perhaps he is naive. Either way, an apology to the victims and to the members here is due.

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by gnukid]

You are calling me out for this? That's nuts this early in the investigation. All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players. I don't know the history here and I have said so. Raphael (Ramuma53) has published the full text of his formal complaint to the PGR. I'll wait to see the same from the other party, or what the media says, if they can sort it out (if they indeed covered his press conference yesterday).

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by Woooosh]

Pescador - 2-11-2012 at 12:10 PM

Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not be getting the hotel up and running.
Also, unless Marc's house in on Ramuna's property, why were they unloading and burning stuff on the beach.
Most of the charges filed against Marc and Olivia can be traced back to some influence and subterfuge from Ramuna. Until such time as he wanted to take over the property, things were pretty peaceful there.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too.

rts551 - 2-11-2012 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not be getting the hotel up and running.
Also, unless Marc's house in on Ramuna's property, why were they unloading and burning stuff on the beach.
Most of the charges filed against Marc and Olivia can be traced back to some influence and subterfuge from Ramuna. Until such time as he wanted to take over the property, things were pretty peaceful there.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too.

Thats the problem with the internet. It does apear the house was on the "other"property"

Mark's post (From google earth and a reviewof the photo It appears the house is on the other side of the Hotel)

"Picture of our new beach house. It was repossesed yesterday with 10 police with machine guns. A guy who was in the house was arrested after pulling his pants down and shaking his pecker at me! His name is Fernando and for some reason he was always pulling his pants down and shaking his pud at me with verbal insults. After the visual assalt of indecent exposure the cops arrested him with handcuffs and he went to jail for 48 hours. The jail is a cement floor in Mulege with bars. Sometime I will take a picture to post it........it is a classic one room jail. You would not want to be there. The future is looking better after a long legal battle. It is nice to be winners. Thanks to my good friends out there who believed in us."

Plus more posting....

"Well, it is better, there are three houses and we were just informed the P.O.S are leaving so we will get the hotel back and the other three houses. What am I going to do now??? For all of you that do not know we have been in a Mexican land dispute fo almost ten years and we kept fighting. Would not been able to fight the banditos without Olivia. She deserves the credit. Lucky for us we were young enough to fight."

Things aren't whatthe always seem to be

Cypress - 2-11-2012 at 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not be getting the hotel up and running.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too.

A fisherman tells it like it is. :yes:

rts551 - 2-11-2012 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not be getting the hotel up and running.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too.

A fisherman tells it like it is. :yes:

Yes, with incomplete info. He thought the house was on Mark and Olivia's property.

I really don't care either. It appears there is a lot more to this story though.

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by rts551]

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players.

Have you ever physically met any of them?

Personally I have not; all of my impressions have been from their postings on this forum, and based on that input I've formed the opinions previously posted. Given enough raw material (and the Turtle Thread provided plenty), I think that is reasonably reliable.

well, thanks for taking a step back for now at least. As I have said, you can't know the whole truth of a legal case from a web thread. Especially when the docs are in Spanish.

I do have some unanswered questions from what was posted and from the photos:

Raphael’s men where in Burbey’s house and ransacked/burned his personal stuff? That house is on the hotel side of the cove. Who has the legal title to this home- Burbey or Raphael?

Burbey said they were on the bridge over the little arroyo that divides the two properties when they were shot at. Were they heading to the house and were stopped by Rafael’s men? Why were they on the bridge to the other property at all?

:?:

rts551 - 2-11-2012 at 03:37 PM

And what ever happened to the people (American couple) that built the house that Mark and Olivia took over? They lived there while Munoz controlled the property.

According to an article in SudCalifornia ( http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm ) the Agrarian court ordered the take over.

Skipjack Joe - 2-11-2012 at 03:41 PM

Ramuma:

Why would someone that's attacking you write SOS on their own property?

No, you're gonna have to go all the way if you want this property bad enough. Intimidation just won't work.

Lee - 2-11-2012 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNews
I had a can of bear pepper spray which I spayed onto the man with the shotgun. He started shooting wildly and 4-5 shots more happened.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
What is really known of what happened? People talk of pepper spray vs guns, but those guns weren't used, were they - except to intimidate. Seems to me if there had been intention to do harm there would be bodies.

The gunman was pepper sprayed. He started shooting wildly.

A bit more than intimidation happening here.

This guy was arrested? I'd sure be waiting for him to be released.

If Mark can qualify owning a gun, he needs to get one.

just a few friendly hotel workers

mtgoat666 - 2-11-2012 at 04:31 PM

the hotel staff look forward to your visit!

Diver - 2-11-2012 at 04:38 PM

Hey Wooosh,

Why would a supposedly smart man like Ramuna send such mental midgets as would hand their gun over to the likes of Pompano, to do anything for him ?

Why would he condemn and accuse when he wasn't there and hasn't talk to his people to get their story ? How does he make this stuff up ?

Which bridge might it be OK to shoot someone on ?
BTW, there appears to be 2 bridges; 1 is a walking bridge over water, the other is on the driveway to the restaurant which is the only access without going through the hotel property.
Please make some sense of this for me.

.

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by Diver]

Diver - 2-11-2012 at 04:41 PM

Skipjack,

Perhaps the SOS was an advertisement for their dinner special. :biggrin:

[Edited on 2-11-2012 by Diver]

rts551 - 2-11-2012 at 04:43 PM

Diver

Why did Mark and Olivia take over that American couple's home. The whole thing is a stinks

rts551 - 2-11-2012 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players.

Larry, I think that is the point. How can you form such a firm opinion based on such loose information.

I have none...and am skeptical of the whole situation.

Diver - 2-11-2012 at 04:49 PM

Don't really know much about who owned what or when.
Not saying Mark and Olivia are the hero's in this; I have no clue.
I can see that the parrot really likes Mark but then he seems to like almost anyone. :lol:

I do think that some of Ramuna's exploits and explanations have been downright comical or worse.
He makes himself an easy target, guilty or not.
.

Skipjack Joe - 2-11-2012 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Skipjack,

Perhaps the SOS was an advertisement for their dinner special. :biggrin:

That would be SNS then -

Soup 'n Salad ?

DENNIS - 2-11-2012 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
That would be SNS then -

Soup 'n Salad ?

I like SOS....Sht on a Shingle. Sometimes I'll put on my old Army fatigues and make up a mess of the stuff and go at it. :biggrin:

mulegemichael - 2-11-2012 at 05:03 PM

dennis; i like sos also...and that is the very best way to describe this entire incident, trust me...just a friggin can o worms, amigo...try as we might, it will take a long, long time to sort it out...still, they are our neighbors, and we will back them just out of "the right thing to do"...we'll see...

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players.

Have you ever physically met any of them?

No, I have not met them. I have worked with Raphael's team here in Rosarito Beach, but I have not met him personally. I don't know the nomad couple personally either and seriously understand the frustration of land title issues. Our land title battle has only been six years but I have been beaten, threatened, and attacked with a 2x4 while justice in Mexico moves slowly. So I understand the stress involved and never knowing if it will end.

Raphael is a Mexican real estate law expert. Period. He knows every word of the Mexican constitution and real estate law. He gives free advice to nomads here and many nomads seriously appreciate his expertise. Apparently he is saying this was provoked by them coming over the bridge onto his property and apparently living in a house he owns. Even he admits he has not talked directly with his people being held in jail. Raphael posted his letter to the PGR and that's all we have.

If I were to speculate what is going on (a true nomad tradition) I'd say: Raphael likely owns the house they were living in or the land around it. It is on the other side of the bridge. He wanted to make a point about people staying off his property and he certainly did that. No blood was shed and Raphael says he does not want violence. The bear spray went off before the shotgun did. There is no lingering threat of further violence. So that's just my NoMind guess until we know who owns what buildings and what land. You can't let someone settle onto your property in Mexico. If you don't protest right way like Raphael's people did, it's basically theirs. I know it looks archaic and like something out of the Wild West, but this is how things still work in rural Mexico. These things can go on for decades and no one ever gets to relax and enjoy the land they fight for- which is sad imho.

btw: I did get an e-mail response from Raphael within a few hours of sending it. He was not aware of the situation down there until I notified him.

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Angel
Rafael may be have degrees, but he is certainly a thug, and a land thief. Just ask him why he can't come to Baja? Thugs and bandidos follow him for a reason.

Yes, it is apparently a legal land-theft game where the person who knows the law best wins. There are two courts making different decisions on the same piece of land and they are unaware of each other's actions. There is Federal Zone land, an ejido land claim and a private property claim with a National Land Title involved at this site- and they are all in different jurisdictions.

The local papers are covering it just like Raphael said they would.

"PGR investigating BCS for protecting Narco-trafficants" with two person's photos.

"Olivia Higuera, who in addition to 14 criminal charges for various offenses, mainly because links to organized crime, is under investigation by the Department of Navy of Mexico, for cooking turtle illegally." (OMG!)

http://notiredmexico.blogspot.com/2012/02/pgr-investiga-func...

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh]

dtbushpilot - 2-11-2012 at 07:19 PM

I was just getting ready to welcome Angel to Nomads and his post disappeared........1 post and already gone.....we didn't even get a chance to give him a proper welcome......dt

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by dtbushpilot]

mtgoat666 - 2-11-2012 at 07:24 PM

i have never bought property w/o title insurance.
...just saying :lol:

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
i have never bought property w/o title insurance.
...just saying :lol:

who paid for anything? :lol:

Pompano - 2-11-2012 at 08:15 PM

- BREAKFAST IS NOW OPEN AT MARK & OLIVIA'S

- ALSO LUNCH AND DINNER

- CAMPING

- SITTING AND JAWING AT THE BAR

- TRAP SHOOT IS POSTPONED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE

Well, today is another poker day..Anas at noon, but.. Tengo muy hambre!.. so first I drove down to Playa Buenaventura to have a good breakfast…at least so I hoped! I missed that the other day, you see. Something about shotguns and barricades...

You never know, after all the commotion down there the last few days, maybe Mark & Olivia were both in town signing papers, swearing to this and that, testifying, buying shotguns, etc.?

Who could tell?…but it’s only a very short drive, so away I went to see my old compadres at their beach café.

I stopped to look at the beach again from a good viewpoint turnoff just north of the beach. Not much activity today…nada...quiet...just the way I like it...sort of.

I drove on in past the hotel turnoff …and found that the short road to the café was not barricaded today.

I parked on the waterfront next to the entrance and walked in to the sound of music…and the smell of…FOOD!

Slipping a little on my drool, I entered the flagstoned café… and, hey… there was the notorious couple themselves.

You have to use your imagination a bit, but I can see a bit of Bonnie and Clyde shining through. But wait, that’s not a very scenario for this great twosome…Bonnie and Clyde were killers…Olivia and Mark are peace-loving folks who just want to live their dream.

After hugs and handshakes all around, I was introduced to two of Mulege’s ‘finest’…who were keeping an eye on the place and providing a ‘police presence’ for the couple, if needed.

They were indeed a ‘presence and show of authority’. Very cordial fellows, and we exchanged some pleasantries while Mark went to get me a breakfast plate.

And what a plate….and they insisted it was on the house. (but I managed a hefty tip for Bertha, the cook….ah, that Bertha...mama mia!) Screw the diet for today. I’ll fast tomorrow when at sea.

Mark, Olivia, and I talked quite a bit about the situation at hand…and how it was affecting their lives. A real bummer. I doubt if I would have had as much patience as these two seem to have in the face of such adversity…and for so many years. Nope, I would have lost my cool. But then…my solutions would probably not work in this case. My tool chest explains a lot. Contents: One small hammer..and..One BIGMOTHER hammer.

From reading all the various beliefs and conjectures on this thread, I can only say…Thank God, it’s just mostly good-natured rumor and supposition expressed by avid internet users getting some mileage out of this event. Just that…rumor …and very little, or no…’ facts’. Second hand info is about as useful as teats on a boar. Hell, we all know that…but it’s okay to put out our theories and what-ifs. Makes enjoyable reading…unless we get malicious. Our dictator/government has not decreed a ban on thinking for yourself…..yet!

I’m the expert on what I know and believe. I base it on many years of experienced and witnessed facts…period. Big Hammer time for sure. Mark and Olivia would let the Mexican courts decide the legal side of all this. (There is still some faith in that system.)

Mark and Olivia are my friends…none of my friends are criminals.

In my opinion….They have already won the moral & right side of the issue.

The rest is in the hands of justice…shaky as those hands are. :rolleyes:

…”…And that’s all I got to say about that…”
-Forest Gump
.
.

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 09:30 PM

For all those who want to know, check
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm

http://www.aztecanoticias.com.mx/notas/seguridad/95960/hotel...

http://www.diario23.com/?p=5589

http://www.razon.com.mx/spip.php?article110276

This was said by my attorney
Estimado Rafaél

El Lic. Aloy Aguilar Yee es el autor material y el Subprocurador de Averiguaciones Previas de la Zona Norte Lic. Galindo Camacho es el autor INTELECTUAL de realizar la estrategia del ministerio publico consistente en el amedrentamiento de tu equipo de trabajo, el cual consiste en imputarles el delito de ULTRAJE y que obtengan su libertad bajo el pago de Caución (fianza) con la finalidad de que la próxima vez que se agreda la integridad física de Olivia y de Mark proceder a la detención inmediata por REINCIDENCIA.

In other words:
All my hotel staf was detained with viuolence because Olivia claimed some one strugled her.
The District attorney just acted without any court order.
Now they are being held in jail for stealing my property, you are reading right, stealin MY PROPERTY when they are my legal representatives.

This has gone too far and be sure the globes are going to come off with her and the crooked authorities.

On monday I have a meeting with the Estate Secretary concerning this problem and they will certainly will act at once, also I am being told that the District attorney General has this case personally because the Governor belong to the PAN party and will certainly become a political bomb on the next presidential elections.

Olivia and Nark just made their last mistake as free people

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 09:32 PM

New ones are coming by the minute and on the National radio we have several explosive comments
http://www.razon.com.mx/spip.php?article110276

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 09:36 PM

Cypress
I do not know you, I am not saying you smoke anything and I do not mean to offend you, but you just dont use reason very often but I guess some of us do the same from time to time

ramuma53 - 2-11-2012 at 09:46 PM

Well, as always, Olivia is lying
She claim to have won in court, but the problem is she did not win against me, I won all the cases she trew at me personally ans she know it.
It is clear she does not own the hotel and she say it is hers after 10 years legal battle, but she have never won the hotel, she actually lost that legal battle, so she is clerarly lying to you Baja Nomads and if necesary I will post that legal riling here for her to be exposed.
As you see, she is trying to go in to my property and accepting it herself, that is the problem and the cause of this confrontation.

Also for those who do not know, she does not own any but any land, she only has a federal concesion that she has not paid for 7 years.

So, if she try to put a foot in my property again, she may lose that foot, I will act acording to the law, but I will act all the way the law allow me to deffend my property, no more concesion to crooks

Muy Senor mio

KaceyJ - 2-11-2012 at 09:47 PM

You Certainly know how to "push some buttons"

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
For all those who want to know, check
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm

http://www.aztecanoticias.com.mx/notas/seguridad/95960/hotel...

http://www.diario23.com/?p=5589

http://www.razon.com.mx/spip.php?article110276

This was said by my attorney
Estimado Rafaél

El Lic. Aloy Aguilar Yee es el autor material y el Subprocurador de Averiguaciones Previas de la Zona Norte Lic. Galindo Camacho es el autor INTELECTUAL de realizar la estrategia del ministerio publico consistente en el amedrentamiento de tu equipo de trabajo, el cual consiste en imputarles el delito de ULTRAJE y que obtengan su libertad bajo el pago de Caución (fianza) con la finalidad de que la próxima vez que se agreda la integridad física de Olivia y de Mark proceder a la detención inmediata por REINCIDENCIA.

In other words:
All my hotel staf was detained with viuolence because Olivia claimed some one strugled her.
The District attorney just acted without any court order.
Now they are being held in jail for stealing my property, you are reading right, stealin MY PROPERTY when they are my legal representatives.

This has gone too far and be sure the globes are going to come off with her and the crooked authorities.

On monday I have a meeting with the Estate Secretary concerning this problem and they will certainly will act at once, also I am being told that the District attorney General has this case personally because the Governor belong to the PAN party and will certainly become a political bomb on the next presidential elections.

Olivia and Nark just made their last mistake as free people

[Edited on 2-13-2012 by KaceyJ]

David K - 2-11-2012 at 09:53 PM

How about a vote to ban this thug from posting any more slander and lies about Mark and Olivia... A violent thug who is using Nomad to gain sympathy for his land stealing ways... He would turn the restaurant into the same dump he turned the motel next door into after he took it over, and destroy the dreams of this hard working couple who has proven to us who have been there what the truth is.

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jakecard
With the multi-faceted disclosures in this thread I can't decide.

Are we as an Internet "community" better or worse off knowing all this stuff?

Over?

Jake

Watch. There is no shame in Mexico. It does look like Raphael won the media battle this time and has directly accused the BCS governor and attorney general by name of working with and protecting these alleged members of the pacific cartel. The PGR is investigating, so they took it fairly serious. Then again, I see the stupid turtle soup thing come up again and it makes me think twice. A national land title by the SRA is the gold standard and Raphael has it I believe.

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
How about a vote to ban this thug from posting any more slander and lies about Mark and Olivia... A violent thug who is using Nomad to gain sympathy for his land stealing ways... He would turn the restaurant into the same dump he turned the motel next door into after he took it over, and destroy the dreams of this hard working couple who has proven to us who have been there what the truth is.

Are they raising turtles for soup in those little houses they took over? Why the need to take more than what they had? Wasn't the restaurant enough to get for free? The restaurant is in the Federal Zone and has no sales value for Raphael. Raphael has helped a dozen or so Nomads and these are the only ones I've heard of that didn't like his expertise. Why ban an expert that has helped so many? All situations are different. That would be like trying to have Johnnie Cochran boycotted from getting clients and banned from practicing law because he got OJ Simpson off.

KaceyJ - 2-11-2012 at 10:21 PM

David,

with all due respect,

I think most here would probably agree with you but why not let this play out on it's own accord.

Just as Mark and Olivia ,whom you have known for only a short time, have their story, so does Sr. Ramuna.

Calling him a thug , online , is akin to the latest ban the Mengano thread.

For what Purpose? If one is an adult , the more information the better and thus the ability to satisfy ones mind in what's makes sense and who's right. Right?

Calling for censorship hurts history.

Leave it alone .

If it bothers you , or if you somehow think it's a negative distraction to this otherwise fine board, don't open the thread and don't respond to it .

Just as easy of a cure as possible .

Let people type. It's amazing what you'll learn.

Quote:

David K - 2-11-2012 at 10:42 PM

When you hire people to harass your neighbors with guns and blockades and all they have done was to not run away when he started harassing them 3 years ago to take their land from them to add to his ... yah, I call that being a thug.

Back then when he started his wild story telling about drug trafficing (in a dead end bay, where other Nomads live and none have seen any activity or see any navy ships as he said there was... I did try to talk with him, before I met Mark and Olivia... and from his replies to me and here on Nomad, I was able to get a good feel for who was honest. When I met Mark and Olivia, it was confirmed that we have a classic GOOD vs. EVIL battle here... Look at the once beautiful hotel on the beach which is a deserted dump since Muñoz took control of it... the look of what EVIL does when it is unchallanged by GOOD.

Read Pompano's last photo post (above)... Pompano has lived on Concepcion Bay for a long time... I trust his opinion, as well.

I stand on the side of GOOD. Can you not see what EVIL looks like? Look again at all the Nomads who have posted photos above.

Woooosh - 2-11-2012 at 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
When you hire people to harass your neighbors with guns and blockades and all they have done was to not run away when he started harassing them 3 years ago to take their land from them to add to his ... yah, I call that being a thug.

Back then when he started his wild story telling about drug trafficing (in a dead end bay, where other Nomads live and none have seen any activity or see any navy ships as he said there was... I did try to talk with him, before I met Mark and Olivia... and from his replies to me and here on Nomad, I was able to get a good feel for who was honest. When I met Mark and Olivia, it was confirmed that we have a classic GOOD vs. EVIL battle here... Look at the once beautiful hotel on the beach which is a deserted dump since Muñoz took control of it... the look of what EVIL does when it is unchallanged by GOOD.

Read Pompano's last photo post (above)... Pompano has lived on Concepcion Bay for a long time... I trust his opinion, as well.

I stand on the side of GOOD. Can you not see what EVIL looks like? Look again at all the Nomads who have posted photos above.

I won't disparage the good nomads who support each other. As far as I know the only cash that has ever changed hands over all this land is when Raphael bought the restaurant from some Italian man, and that I have only heard third-hand. You can manage and claim a property, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are entitled to own and keep it. Whoever has the legal national land title with the SRA stamp on it is the legal owner. In general, con artists make a much better first impression than lawyers. Wasn't Bernie Maddoff both though? I'm still waiting for more facts and if Raphael posts them, that would be just fine with me. No one ever said Mexico was fair and rewards the kind and deserving.

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh]

XPBRes - 2-12-2012 at 12:36 AM

Mike & Olivia were only leasing the land when they subleased it to a few that improved their leased lots (1991). We have slowly been picked off and now are long gone. We were given bogus leases and when Mike left Mark & Olivia tried to strong arm us into new leases. Then Munoz came along with an ultimatum, give up your rights to the improvements, get out or be sued. Now MARK who never had anything to do with the building of this beach community is showing pictures of HIS new home (what a joke). Just because he is still there doesn't give him the right to claim property that was legally paid for by wonderful people who put their trust in Mike, and then Mark & Olivia. Sure there is Munoz and his claims but why is he any different than the lies and theft that came 1st. I know most of the people that post here, and they are good & honest. I too along with all the others who invested in this dream, nightmare trusted all of these characters. We wanted to believe in these people but lies, greed and desperation won out. Now the dream is truly a nightmare and who is to blame. Surely not the people who put down their life savings . Then trusted for a chance to retire in a beautiful beach setting such as Buenaventura. I challenge Mark to tell any of you that they are owners of anything at best they lease land and that is being challenged. Have him tell you how he built anything down there. He didn't even show up until after Mike left and there have been no improvements to the beach since he left (2002). I have kept quiet to respect the last of the homeowners but there are none left. OK Mark move into someone else’s home and claim it but you can't have it both ways! You and Munoz are no different trying to claim what others have built for your own.

Thank you Mike, Mark, Olivia & Munoz your lies, cheating & greed have you right were you belong!!!!!

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2012 at 12:36 AM

Quote:

"proven?"

hmmmmm... i used to think ramsanus was the guilty party. now i don't know. i do note that only ramsanus shows up here to tell his story, and the mark/olivia story is third hand posting from gringos.

but i still think same thing i thought on turtle thread: all should drive on by, do not stop, the bay is occupied by whackos that could pop off at any moment!

Beginnings @ Buenaventura

XPBRes - 2-12-2012 at 01:12 AM

No Homes no Hotel No Mark No Munoz, the dream begins

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]

Fall 1991 Buenaventura.jpg - 48kB

Skipjack Joe - 2-12-2012 at 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
Mike & Olivia were only leasing the land when they subleased it to a few that improved their leased lots (1991). We have slowly been picked off and now are long gone. We were given bogus leases and when Mike left Mark & Olivia tried to strong arm us into new leases. Then Munoz came along with an ultimatum, give up your rights to the improvements, get out or be sued. Now MARK who never had anything to do with the building of this beach community is showing pictures of HIS new home (what a joke). Just because he is still there doesn't give him the right to claim property that was legally paid for by wonderful people who put their trust in Mike, and then Mark & Olivia. Sure there is Munoz and his claims but why is he any different than the lies and theft that came 1st. I know most of the people that post here, and they are good & honest. I too along with all the others who invested in this dream, nightmare trusted all of these characters. We wanted to believe in these people but lies, greed and desperation won out. Now the dream is truly a nightmare and who is to blame. Surely not the people who put down their life savings . Then trusted for a chance to retire in a beautiful beach setting such as Buenaventura. I challenge Mark to tell any of you that they are owners of anything at best they lease land and that is being challenged. Have him tell you how he built anything down there. He didn't even show up until after Mike left and there have been no improvements to the beach since he left (2002). I have kept quiet to respect the last of the homeowners but there are none left. OK Mark move into someone else’s home and claim it but you can't have it both ways! You and Munoz are no different trying to claim what others have built for your own.

Thank you Mike, Mark, Olivia & Munoz your lies, cheating & greed have you right were you belong!!!!!

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]

Wow.

Roger, you knew this all along, didn't you?

Why is ramuma unwilling to wait for the lease to run out?

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Skipjack Joe]

wessongroup - 2-12-2012 at 03:50 AM

XPBRes ... thanks for the input .. sounds like your used to wild rides...

DENNIS - 2-12-2012 at 07:09 AM

The plot thickens.

Maybe I should save all this sht for a rainy day.

Weather.com says that could be Monday.

.

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by DENNIS]

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2012 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
No Homes no Hotel No Mark No Munoz, the dream begins

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]

that pic reminds me,... 'tis a shame they scraped the vegetation clear. why do most developments in baja look like scraped gravel lots? the area would be so much prettier if they left one native plant

rts551 - 2-12-2012 at 08:13 AM

I really feel for you guys. The "know it alls" on this forum are always quick to jump the gun. Maybe its because they have nothing of their own. You guys are the true victims in this fiasco.

Quote:

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by rts551]

goldhuntress - 2-12-2012 at 08:34 AM

@XPBRes, I thought I smelled a rat, turns out it's several! I kept wondering where is the beginning of this, when did it start? If I know that I will know what's what, maybe not legally, but morally. You answered that and I believe you. Thank you for posting and sorry you got screwed.

rts551 - 2-12-2012 at 08:45 AM

Do you wear a cape and mask? Just asking.

Now tell me masked man for the force of good, would you feel the same way if they took over your house?

Quote:

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by rts551]

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2012 at 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goldhuntress
@XPBRes, I thought I smelled a rat, turns out it's several! I kept wondering where is the beginning of this, when did it start? If I know that I will know what's what, maybe not legally, but morally. You answered that and I believe you. Thank you for posting and sorry you got screwed.

xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind his/her axe

rts551 - 2-12-2012 at 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind his/her axe

Those of us that have been there before know that there are houses there built by innocent bystanders. You can not get away from that fact and Mark's posting that he has taken over one of them. Goldhuntress is spot on in this one.

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by rts551]

mtgoat666 - 2-12-2012 at 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind his/her axe

i don't disagree, there are no saints, all involved are a bit shady

DianaT - 2-12-2012 at 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind his/her axe

i don't disagree, there are no saints, all involved are a bit shady

Those are very mild words--- I imagine the people who trusted and lost their homes and dreams refer to all of them in much stronger language. Just an observation---it seems like when a gringo is involved, other gringos tend to be more trusting, and that is not always a good thing.

But I still really feel for the people who built their dreams there and lost as trust is a positive part of human nature. Many of us trust too much until we are screwed. JMHO

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