BajaNomad

Riding on the Beach on the East Cape

Anonymous - 11-12-2004 at 11:37 AM

I recently saw a post regarding the prohibition of riding atvs and mcs on the beach on the East Cape. Forgive my ignorance but exactly where is the East Cape. I recently returned from a ride in Baja (1st time) where we rode on the beach from 20 miles south of San Felipe to Puerticitos. Were we in violation of the law?

I don't think so

jrbaja - 11-12-2004 at 01:46 PM

I believe it's still legal where you were. Not all homes and condos and stuff yet.
East cape is in Baja Sur between Los Barriles and San Jose del Cabo. It's a gringo name so you won't see it on too many maps.

Dave - 11-12-2004 at 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
I believe it's still legal where you were.


It isn't legal anywhere in Mexico.

bajajudy - 11-12-2004 at 03:28 PM

One of the reasons for the ban is that the turtles are nesting on these beaches. I personally agree with the ban of motorized vehicles on the beaches for that very reason. My husband and I walk our dogs everyday on the beach near La Playa and we regularly see turtle tracks where the mother has come in to lay her eggs and made her way back to the sea. These turtles need all of our help to survive!

beaches

jim janet - 11-12-2004 at 04:41 PM

This must apply to the people who rent atvs just north of Cabo on the Pacific side.They must be paying someone Big bucks.

bajalou - 11-12-2004 at 07:29 PM

Dave's correct, wether it's enforced or not, driving/riding vehicles down the beaches is against the law in ALL of mexico. It's fun to do so we try to get by with it, but shouldn't cry if we get caught.

:biggrin:

4baja - 11-12-2004 at 08:46 PM

it may be true that it is against the law but the fact is that dogs and cattlle creats more problems for the turtles then humans and quads. go down to la fortuna some time and watch the dogs dig up the eggs and what the cattle does to the sand. horses and bulls creat a perfect print for the little turtles to turn over in and lay upside down for a prediter, a typical ATV print has less then a half inch print. the fact is that the more rich gringos that move down there then the more beaches that will be closed to atvs. look at the beach in front of la laguna, before there was the gringo influence we could drive down there and fish and have a picnic but now sighs all over to keep people off. theres never a problem till the gringos show up and thats a fact. love rideing the beach on my atv!:coolup:

Cyndarouh - 11-12-2004 at 11:19 PM

U, go Grover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:fire:

elgatoloco - 11-12-2004 at 11:20 PM

The scoop is that the few who aren't humans ruin it for the rest.:fire:

[Edited on 11-13-2004 by elgatoloco]

David K - 11-12-2004 at 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by grover
Don't turtles and other creatures nest pretty high up on the berm?

I'm curious because it seems like vehicle traffic of any kind would be pretty much confined to the transition from the backbone access road to the low-tide hardpack.

I know the few times I've driven on the beach I wasn't exactly anxious to crawl along forever in the soft stuff.

You want to get down on the hard stuff, quick. ;)

What's the scoop on that?


That's very correct... cross the dry soft sand ASAP and get to the firm wet sand below the high tide line. You don't even need 4WD there and all the Mexican's that drive the beach south of San Felipe seem to do it fine in their 2WD trucks (checking the gill nets). Don't worry, there are no turtles near San Felipe (even back in the 60's) and no other people on the beach shown here... also, no roads to get to camp on Shell Island... this is the only way there...


bajajudy - 11-13-2004 at 07:06 AM

Please Join The Grupo Tortuguero, Pro Peninsula and Grupo Ecologista Antares for the
7th Annual Conference
of the Sea Turtle Network
January 28-30, 2005
Loreto, BCS, Mexico
For registration, hotel information and conference details please visit www.iconferences.org/gt7 or contact Kama Dean at (619) 723-0700 kama@propeninsula.org

ATVs/Turtle nests

Osprey - 11-13-2004 at 08:44 AM

I don't know much about turtles but google does. The greatest threat to turtle nests are hurricanes that hit beaches at high tide, beach strandings (25%), bird and animal predation, people. All of that should urge us to be careful about how we use the beach -- stay on the wet sand when you can. I personally don't think ATVs do very much damage.

jim janet - 11-13-2004 at 09:32 AM

The beaches themselves up to the high water mark are not damaged by the above mentioned dangers.The tide takes care of all.It is the area above the normal high tide that is damaged by man and beast.Atvs are hard on dunes it takes years to grow that sparce cover and only moments to rip out.:

bajajudy - 11-13-2004 at 12:12 PM

hola
just tried the link for the turtle conference and it didnt fly. will get back when i have a good link, since some of you seemed interested.
two years ago it was at the camino real which turned out to be a great place and they got a really good room rate. hopefully they will be able to do the same this year.
more later

bajajudy - 11-13-2004 at 01:58 PM

try this for the turtle conference:

http://www.iconferences.org/gt7/

it is going to be in downtown Loreto...somewhere.

sea turtles

gringorio - 11-14-2004 at 07:34 AM

Try this group:

ASUPMATOMA
Asociacion Sudcaliforniana de Protecion al Medio Ambiente y a la Tortuga Marina A.C.
http://www.mexonline.com/tortuga.htm

Here is another informative link:

http://www.mongabay.com/sea_turtles/

Also, In 2005 Grupo Tortuguero de las Californias will be back in Loreto from January 28 through 30 to celebrate the 7th Annual Meeting.

First, I'd like to say that I?m happy to hear that many people do care about the environment. However, even if one thinks that it is ok to drive on the hard sand below the high tide line because that?s not where turtle dig their nests does not make it right. ?Quickly? crossing the deeper sand can still put a sea turtle nest at risk?running it over is still running it over. Also, consider the image that driving on the beach creates for others not in the know: ?If they can drive on the beach so can I.? Plus, ?driving on the beach? for many entails driving on and over everything from the waters edge to the dunes behind the high tide line. It is known that driving off-road vehicles on beaches is a severe problem in many areas. Doing this can result in a decreased hatchling success rate because of sand compaction or it can directly kill the hatchlings. Tire ruts can also interfere with the ability of hatchlings to make it to the sea.

All five species of sea turtles are listed as endangered in Mexico. The definition of endangered being "any species which is in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range." 16 U.S.C. ? 1532(6). With our ability to modify our behaviors in ways that will help prevent these species from going extinct it seems reasonable to obey the law and not drive on the beach while still enjoying all that Baja has to offer. We have a responsibility to take care of the land and sea we all love and use, no matter our nationality. Understanding a little bit about these kinds of issues can add depth our experience of Baja and the way we move through the world.

OK, thank you for listing. I will step off my soap box now?

:bounce:

Gringorio

jrbaja - 11-14-2004 at 08:15 AM

That was so right on target that they will probably start calling you "anti american":lol:

David K - 11-14-2004 at 11:42 AM

Is there a map tha show where the turtles nest?

I have only read about the eggs being on the beaches near Cabo... south of Todos Santos.

If no maps, then is there any documentation on nesting site locations?

Thank you!

Driving on the Beach

MrBillM - 11-14-2004 at 12:25 PM

There is a New Weekly Newspaper being published in San Felipe.
"El Sol de San Felipe". The 20-26 Octubre edition is headlined
DRAMA EN LA PLAYA. The headlined story relates that a pickup
truck hauling out a "Banana" from the surf in front of Ruben's
camp failed to note that there was a woman sunbathing in their
path and DROVE over her. Remarkably, she suffered no serious
injuries. Events like this are bound to increase pressure to
enforce the existing ban.

bajajudy - 11-14-2004 at 12:50 PM

As I stated I walk on the beach everyday from La Playa almost to Laguna Hills on the Sea of Cortez and see tracks from the mothers trying to nest regularly. They do nest on the beaches as far north as Los Barriles to my knowledge.
I am a firm believer that the best thing we can all do for the Baja that we all love is to leave it exactly as we found it. That would be without tire tracks on the beach.

David K - 11-14-2004 at 01:02 PM

Thank you Judy...

So, the coast from Todos Santos around the cape to Los Barriles is nesting area. Some 1,000 miles away where Life Guards drive the beach in California or where the above photo was taken probably isn't a concern for turtles.

It is important to note, beach driving anywhere, legal or not, should never be done where people are sunbathing or in numbers on the beach... like in front of towns like San Felipe, Rosarito, etc.

elizabeth - 11-14-2004 at 01:11 PM

Turtles nest in a lot of places...or don't because they have been disturbed.
I've seen a turtle nest right next to the Villas de Loreto...an area frequently disturbed by cars and trucks. This is not an area that had any recorded turtle nests...so maps just don't always do it. You need to learn what conditions (sand tide rocks etc) are favorable or unfavorable for turtles in your areas.
I've been on turtle walks on the caribbean side (part education...part patrolling)...and learned that it helps for those who live on the water to turn out lights that can disorient the females, and move all furniture, rafts, kayaks, etc. off the beach. I have observed a female come ashore to lay eggs, run into a deck chair, and turn right around and go back out.

gringorio - 11-14-2004 at 03:50 PM

I searched a bit but could not find a map that lists nesting grounds. Most life history descriptions will state nesting periods and general locations for each species.

This spring Antonio at Campo Archelon in Bahia de los Angeles had three baby sea turtles in captivity (I forget now what species). These turtles came from a nest on the Camp Gecko side of the bay. A tourist saw turkey vultures on the beach and went to investigate. The three baby turtles were the only survivors of the nest.

David

jrbaja - 11-14-2004 at 11:04 PM

I'm heading down soon.
I will get you all the GPS coordinates of the turtle nesting sites.:lol::lol::lol:

David K - 11-14-2004 at 11:24 PM

Good idea JR...

Do stop at Baja Cactus motel and see if the collection of bug repellent is still there for you to take south.

riding on the beach

Anonymous - 11-15-2004 at 05:37 AM

I have lived in Baja 33 years now...enjoy it more all the time. I have never driven on any beach and never will. The tracks have a ripple effect in environmental damage. Anyone with a conscience knows you should not drive on a beach..if you do, you are lying to yourself..Be honest now, you know it is wrong.

4baja - 11-15-2004 at 07:06 AM

gee judy as long as i have been going to baja there has been tracks on the beach and turtles laying eggs. allso i would love to leave baja the way i found it without all those huge houses being built between la playa and la fortuna. use to be a nice ride down the beach with board in hand to my favorite surf spot but now i have to look up and see all those ugly houses.:coolup:

riding on the beach

Anonymous - 11-29-2004 at 09:20 PM

Well, thanks for all of the input. I appreciate all of the information given, especially about the turtles nesting. We had just left San Felipe heading south on the Baja racecourse (30 miles of hell, whoops, sand whoops, rock whoops, and more whoops) and we were taking quite a beating. Bikes and riders were loaded to the gills (no support vehicle) and we were beat. We spotted an out to the highway so we took it. It led us to a community on the sand (I forgot the name) with a gatehouse (unmanned at the time) so we pulled in and stopped. I've got a great photo of our riding buddy worshipping and kissing the highway (pagan dude) after we got off that section of whoops We asked some locals who were working at an adjacent house if it were o.k. to ride through their community to get to the sand and to head south on the beach. They waved "no problem" so we headed on. We didn't blaze any new trails, so to speak, through the sand and after a few tense moments of paddling through the silty stuff we were on the hardpack. We were passed by a Jeep (CA plates) headed the other way and he gave us a friendly wave so we figured we were o.k. It was pretty awesome riding on the beach but after a while we were glad to get back on the highway. Riding in the sand is hard on teh bikes for sure! Really worked my buddy's DRZ400 as it was at least 100 degrees and he weighs a good 260 lbs loaded with gear. There were no people sunbathing or horses, no turtles, just dead rotting fish from the netters who were going after something more exotic and dumped their load of dead gillnet fish back into the ocean. I really thought that an ecological episode (red tide) or something happened because we rode 20 miles and still spotted dead rotting fish on the beach after we were past Puerticitos.
Gonzaga Bay was a relief, no dead fish and no stinky smell. Now that I recall, there were tons of dead fish washing up on the beach in San Felipe. I was hoping to bring the kids down there but now I'm sold on Gonzaga Bay. Much cleaner and great hospitality from the locals and Antonio and his crew. :lol: But thanks for the heads-up! We'll be sticking to the dirt next time. bob

Sea Turtle Conservation Efforts in Baja

Cameron - 11-30-2004 at 06:59 AM

...Just thought I'd post this link w/Sea Turtle information from Asupmatoma in BCS via the Mexonline website. There's some interesting stuff there for anyone who's interested.
Cameron

http://www.mexonline.com/tortuga.htm

wilderone - 11-30-2004 at 10:37 AM

Passing this on as well:

"Coastal Dunes" - by John McNerney
The sand dunes that front the shoreline of the Pacific coast and the east cape region of Baja California Sur are known as coastal or barrier dunes. This type of dune, such as those found behind the beaches in Todos Santos, act as a buffer against high surf and summer storms, protecting low lying inland areas from flooding. Equally important, these dunes provide a sand reservoir that replaces sand eroded from the beach. The benefits that these dunes provide are often not recognized much less valued monetarily. The purpose of this article is to help people understand their critical function in the natural environment and, with this understanding, perhaps alter their recreational and developmental activities, which often lead to the destruction of these dunes.
Coastal dunes are significantly different from sand dunes in desert areas. Desert dunes shift continually in the direction of prevailing winds and have little to no vegetative cover. Coastal dunes, however, are covered in specialized grasses that have the unique ability to survive in shifting sand, continually producing new stems and roots through cycles of burial and exposure. This net of grasses stabilized the dunes and when damaged or removed by human interference, the dunes will begin migrating inland, covering everything in their path and allowing the sea to flood low lying inland areas.
The preservation of this natural coastal environment will only increase in importance in the future, given global climate change, the attendant rising of sea levels and the growing incidences of powerful storms. A coastal dune system, left in its natural state, will slowly migrate inland as the sea level rises and continue to protect inland areas.
In recent years government regulatory protection of coastal dunes has been enacted in many parts of the world, especially those coastal areas developed for recreation over the past century when housing and hotels replaced the dunes. Dunes are the sand reservoir for the beaches and when they are removed, the beaches follow suit. Beach erosion, with the subsequent loss of recreational areas, has severely affected local economies and taxpayers are now funding large-scale coastal dune restoration projects.
Local Mexican environmental groups, such as "Sociedad de Historia Natural Niparaja" of La Paz, are working with government officials to enact regulations in Mexico to prevent similar destruction of Baja's coastal dunes. Here are two ways we can all help to protect this valuable resource.
Able to withstand the most violent storms, coastal dunes can quickly disappear due to human activities. Driving 4-wheel vehicles and ATVs on and across the dunes destroys the grasses holding the dunes in place. These paths to the beach can eventually serve as openings for the ocean to move inland. If you must drive to the beach, there are numerous bocas (openings) where arroyos run to the ocean and provide less destructive motorized access to the beach.
Electing not to build a home or promote development on coastal dunes is of importance, not only to protect the coastal environment, but to also protect one's potential investment. The beach erosion photo in last issue (see above) showed a partially destroyed house built on a coastal dune. This home was part of a shoreline development called "Las Barrancas" in the East Cape region north of Cabo Pulmo. A severe storm with high surf swept away up to 20 meters of developed beach front property, resulting in partial to total destruction of a number of homes, leaving others perched on newly formed sand cliffs overlooking the beach.
Property owners are now erecting bulkheads and seawalls in an attempt to prevent further erosion of their remaining land. Such structures, as experience in other coastal areas has shown, have proved to contribute to or accelerate local coastal erosion.
This cycle of construction and destruction has been repeated in coastal areas worldwide. The only successful solution has been to protect the existing dunes and restore those that have been destroyed. Eventually, the sea always wins.

David K - 11-30-2004 at 06:51 PM

Bahia Santa Maria and Laguna Percebu lost many (then recently) built vacation homes constructed right above the high tide line on sand beaches, because the sand moves! Wind and tidal erosion moves the beach and dunes annually. In 1978, the bay at Bahia Santa Maria suddonly changed shape and many homes built on the upper beach along the bay were undermined and collapsed as the beach 'moved' out from under them.

The wise Mexican land owners always located their homes far back from the beach... they are still standing.

I am going to guess that homes built on the cliff from La Roca south will also be gone someday soon as the sandstone cliff face is eroding as well.