BajaNomad

Tres Santos

pauldavidmena - 5-20-2014 at 04:36 PM

I've only been visiting Todos Santos since 2008, but there's always been talk of a big development coming into town. So far none have gained too much traction, but Tres Santos seems pretty close to happening. The cynic in me smirks at the thought of it being a "Wellness Community" as described in this article from the Yahoo Travel website. Has anyone in the Todos Santos area formed an opinion of the project - pro or con?

weebray - 5-20-2014 at 04:47 PM

The bloom is already off the rose in TS. The quaint as well as magnificent old casas have been bought up to be rented by hucksters selling pho trinkets from pho artisans. When a sweet old casa is converted by some dirt pimp developer into a retail setting, the die has been cast. There is no going back, the place's future will be how successful it is now as a place to sell someone's "cool" photos of the sunset. If you swoon at downtown La Jolla, you're gonna love Todos Santos. More to come! Trust me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm just cranky and I don't have to go there but it makes me sad.
'

tiotomasbcs - 5-20-2014 at 04:52 PM

Oh yeah. Big Money! Recent Gringo makes it look like a favor to the community. Boutique Hotels and golf courses that give work to locals. I'm not sure. How many hotel rooms--100's?? Where will all the workers live during construction? Pueblo Magico? Look at Cerritos Beach w/developer being arrested in US for fraud. Like Cabo Pulmo, what about limited water availability vs Agriculture! You can't fool me. Tio Oh yeah, Weeb, Botox and Marin are already here, 3 months a year. Smiles. Tomas
:cool:

[Edited on 5-20-2014 by tiotomasbcs]

pauldavidmena - 5-21-2014 at 06:28 AM

It makes me sad that what had once been a beautiful, sleepy place could be a Disney theme park by the time I'm ready to retire.

[Edited on 5-21-2014 by pauldavidmena]

monoloco - 5-21-2014 at 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
The bloom is already off the rose in TS. The quaint as well as magnificent old casas have been bought up to be rented by hucksters selling pho trinkets from pho artisans. When a sweet old casa is converted by some dirt pimp developer into a retail setting, the die has been cast. There is no going back, the place's future will be how successful it is now as a place to sell someone's "cool" photos of the sunset. If you swoon at downtown La Jolla, you're gonna love Todos Santos. More to come! Trust me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm just cranky and I don't have to go there but it makes me sad.
'
Cranky is right. I think you have it backwards, quaint and rustic is nice for tourists, but it gets a little old for the residents of a town. As someone who has been coming to Todos Santos for 30 years and have lived in the area for over 20, I can say that most of the changes are appreciated, I don't miss standing in line at a caseta to make a phone call, the choice of 3 mediocre restaurants, the crappy and dangerous highway, and the lack of entertainment and culture. You should think before you spew and denigrate the artists and artisans of Todos Santos because we are blessed to be the home of some very talented people here. Todos Santos is a real town, it's not Disneyland, and it's a great place to live. Do you long for the horse and buggy days in your town?

pauldavidmena - 5-21-2014 at 11:17 AM

@monoloco - you have a good point. Living off the grid for a week might be good therapy, but we're considering Todos Santos as a place to live because it has a combination of modern conveniences and Old World charm. I don't think it's wrong to have high-speed internet on an unpaved street! I guess my original post was wondering aloud about whether Tres Santos would tilt that balance in the wrong direction - one toward overdevelopment.

weebray - 5-21-2014 at 12:01 PM

Monoloco, I have to laugh when the old "I've been here longer than you" card is thrown up. I've been here a long time but what difference does that make? You can see that attitude every morning at Club Cruiseros where "old-timers" gather in a circle, to the exclusion of newbies, to discuss how wonderful it was here when Eisenhower was president. I have no objection to local "improvements". My point is that when you destroy another cool old house in centro, instead of restoring it, you take away a part of the sole of the pueblo. I will grant you there are some good artists in TS as well as some great people with good ideas for music, film, art and food. There are also too many great old casas that have been converted into "trinket" crap and "art" galleries financed by some too rich gringo with fur on his chest that would make a Bigelo carpet salesman drool with envy. The "gallery" is no more than a showcase to display his trophy wife and her bad art. It's there because he has the money and after he is gone back to Vale his legacy will be the death of another piece of the heart of a great little pueblo. In Todos Santos I am an outsider looking in. My passion and interest lies in La Paz, centro. I have ideas and time to try to preserve what I love here. I fight a losing battle against the indiscriminate removal of 100+ yr. old trees. I fight against tearing down great old buildings to convert them to Oxxo's. I visit TS fairly often, some of the "progress" does annoy me. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, I don't really care, it's just my opinion.

bajagrouper - 5-21-2014 at 01:18 PM

The drawing of what this development will look like reminds me of the plans for the villages at Loreto,LOL..... and the ignorant author prolonging the Eagles / Hotel California myth....what a joke!!!!!

pauldavidmena - 5-21-2014 at 05:44 PM

I'm fairly new to Todos Santos, but I know this isn't the first big development to be proposed. Most of them have fallen to the wayside for one reason or another, but this one seems likely to go forward. I can only hope that its scope can be negotiated down to a reasonable size, and that it will be a boon to the pueblo instead of a boat anchor.

monoloco - 5-22-2014 at 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
Monoloco, I have to laugh when the old "I've been here longer than you" card is thrown up. I've been here a long time but what difference does that make? You can see that attitude every morning at Club Cruiseros where "old-timers" gather in a circle, to the exclusion of newbies, to discuss how wonderful it was here when Eisenhower was president. I have no objection to local "improvements". My point is that when you destroy another cool old house in centro, instead of restoring it, you take away a part of the sole of the pueblo. I will grant you there are some good artists in TS as well as some great people with good ideas for music, film, art and food. There are also too many great old casas that have been converted into "trinket" crap and "art" galleries financed by some too rich gringo with fur on his chest that would make a Bigelo carpet salesman drool with envy. The "gallery" is no more than a showcase to display his trophy wife and her bad art. It's there because he has the money and after he is gone back to Vale his legacy will be the death of another piece of the heart of a great little pueblo. In Todos Santos I am an outsider looking in. My passion and interest lies in La Paz, centro. I have ideas and time to try to preserve what I love here. I fight a losing battle against the indiscriminate removal of 100+ yr. old trees. I fight against tearing down great old buildings to convert them to Oxxo's. I visit TS fairly often, some of the "progress" does annoy me. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, I don't really care, it's just my opinion.
I can't think of one "great old casa" that has been "converted into trinket crap", I know of a couple that have been converted into B&Bs and Inns and a couple more that have been made into fine art galleries, but for the most part most of the fine old residences of Todos Santos are still being used as residences and owned by the original families. Most of the "trinket crap" is in cheap stalls thrown up by Mexicans looking to fleece the tourists, so who do you blame for that, the tourists that buy it, or the paisanos who sell it? I don't care for all the changes, but Todos Santos does enforce regulations designed to preserve the ambiance of the historic core, but the bottom line is that people have to make a living, and they are doing it by utilizing their private property for commerce the same way they always have. It's easy to get all nostalgic, but on the whole, Todos Santos is much more of a livable place now than it was 25 years ago, if my saying that makes it sound like I'm throwing out the "I've been here longer than you card", so be it, but I've been here for a while, and those are my observations. You sound like a bitter grumpy person weebray. I don't know where you are from, but do you long for your town to return to dirt roads and kerosene lamps?

tiotomasbcs - 5-22-2014 at 05:19 PM

I must beg a difference, Amigo Monoloco...I'm talking big projects but I also see a big difference in big pocket newcomers who can't stand dirt roads and Trash. Cerritos Beach is not pretty anymore and El Faro or Punta Lobos projects cannot be considered good, for locals and Nortes in the long run. Old Haciendas like Juanitas market now rent beach cruisers?? The high school Internado has remodeled into Guayacura--fancy smancy Hotel-ristorante. Historic District bldg copies sell
real Estate at $100 us M2 and pottery at super Cabo prices!! La Coronela sells this tourist trap chit in a Historic Bld. Hotel California? Please. I have lowered my expectations to survive. I do love a few things like a Bank and Interenet but if I don't voice opposition I'll have to move to....Guerrero Negro..and open a Galleria... Tio..

[Edited on 5-23-2014 by tiotomasbcs]

monoloco - 5-22-2014 at 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
I must beg a difference, Amigo Monoloco...I'm talking big projects but I also see a big difference in big pocket newcomers who can't stand dirt roads and Trash. Cerritos Beach is not pretty anymore and El Faro or Punta Lobos projects cannot be considered good, for locals and Nortes in the long run. Old Haciendas like Juanitas market now rent beach cruisers?? Historic District bldg copies sell
real Estate at $100 us M2 and pottery at super Cabo prices!! La Coronela sells this tourist trap chit in a Historic Bld. Hotel California? Please. I have lowered my expectations to survive. I do love a few things like a Bank and Interenet but if I don't voice opposition I'll have to move to....Guerrero Negro..and open a Galleria... Tio..
No need to go that far amigo, I can get you into a sweet fixer-upper in El Rosario de Las Gallinas for a lot less than $100m2. You can enjoy the tranquilidad with no worries about developers or tourist traps. Maybe you and weebray can be neighbors.:lol:

pauldavidmena - 5-22-2014 at 06:09 PM

I guess we won't know what Tres Santos will mean for Todos Santos until it gets there - assuming that it does. In the mean time, it's more of a philosophical question: how much progress is too much? Or to make it more personal, are gringos like me - looking for Baja sunshine and simplicity as long as we have bottled water and high-speed internet - part of the solution, or part of the problem?

tiotomasbcs - 5-22-2014 at 06:29 PM

El Carrizal is 20 miles north TS and where they stuck all the Farmworkers! Never been there myself but friends/cops/firemen say weekends are Barbaric?! Construction workers on these projects are all from Oaxaca and live like ..... not a sweet look at behind the scenes. Locals sell them used clothes in Tianges and they drink Cana to lose their tired misery. Reality? Need sunglasses to look beyond .. Cesar chavez and workers Rights? I'm on Vacation . Let's hope for moderation/ slow growth. Tio ps just a Sixties Child.

[Edited on 5-23-2014 by tiotomasbcs]

SFandH - 5-22-2014 at 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pauldavidmena
how much progress is too much?


In a large way it depends upon the available infrastructure - water, sewerage, electricity, garbage collection and disposal, etc.

One of the annoying aspects of growth like this is the constant construction projects everywhere to support the growth.

I used to surf Pedrito and Cerritos in the late 80s, early 90s. TS was a great place then. A nice, clean Mexican town with the only gringos being surfers, beach bums, and a few RVers. Now, the CSL miasma has enveloped the town.

Relative to other populated Baja destinations though, it is still one of the best, IMHO.


[Edited on 5-23-2014 by SFandH]

monoloco - 5-23-2014 at 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pauldavidmena
I guess we won't know what Tres Santos will mean for Todos Santos until it gets there - assuming that it does. In the mean time, it's more of a philosophical question: how much progress is too much? Or to make it more personal, are gringos like me - looking for Baja sunshine and simplicity as long as we have bottled water and high-speed internet - part of the solution, or part of the problem?
I don't know if Tres Santos will fly or not, but I'd much rather see a well planned development happen than another free for all surf ghetto like what's happening at Los Cerritos. The fact is that there are more people on the planet everyday so almost any desirable place is going to get more crowded.

pauldavidmena - 5-23-2014 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I don't know if Tres Santos will fly or not, but I'd much rather see a well planned development happen than another free for all surf ghetto like what's happening at Los Cerritos.


You and me both. Hopefully all of the fretting will be an overreaction, and Tres Santos a benefit for Todos Santos.

pauldavidmena - 6-11-2014 at 03:05 PM

Here is another article about the Tres Santos project. I shudder at the use of the word "Massive", although it appears that it will be a phased implementation and not an instant sprawl. I can only hope that it will mean a more vibrant Todos Santos, and not Cabo Norte.

Udo - 6-11-2014 at 04:33 PM

My question...


Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.

However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:

In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero

Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?

monoloco - 6-11-2014 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
My question...


Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.

However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:

In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero

Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?
Udo, What you are saying is simply not true, there are lots of public access places, even ones where. you can drive on to the beach. Just between Los Cerritos and San Pedrito, I can think of at least a dozen spots where you can access some beautiful (and empty) beaches. Legally, I believe that there is supposed to be a public access every 1000mts. There is one BIG walled subdivision about halfway up but there is an access point at the north end of it.

BajaLuna - 6-12-2014 at 12:41 AM

this is an interesting post/thread as we have been looking closely at the areas of Pescadero, Todos Santos and surrounding areas and I came across Tres Santos in my search. Although, the tree hugger in me wondered how much the surrounding farm lands will suffer (no farms no food) by possibly taking up space for this compound that food could be grown on....and how much building this big development will put a strain on local resources yet having said that, there will be jobs for people building this compound. In the grand scheme of things a place like this supports ways to keep our carbon footprint more under control. But there is never an easy answer, is there? You do good in one or 2 areas in order to live more sustainable and it may harm something else, ugh! And like Monoloco says, "there are more people on the planet everyday", and with that there is a need for everyone to live somewhere. And high density equals less of a carbon footprint.

I have lived in intentional communities before with strong and successful councils, albeit nowhere near anything like this, but very well thought out in regards to self sustainability, holistically conscious, community taking care of community, elder care, trading services etc, and most of them work very well....but what I think is missing here, and perhaps it's not (I haven't seen any reference to it yet) is children and elder care and mentorships, which is important in these types of communities IMHO. Perhaps that may evolve.

I do see the opportunity here for cottage industries to pop up within this compound and that's a good thing! The more we can support and consume from local, handmade products the better! And usually that breeds a lot of trade and barter, which is awesome too and better for the planet as a whole.

I'd like to check it out, and probably will! We also want to check out areas a bit south and north of Todos Santos!

By the way Pauldavidmena, I just read your blog, lots of good info on it and I will be following your journey as we too are lookey-looing in the same areas!

P.S. Pauldavidmena....Voluntary simplicity is a good thing not only for the planet but personally too...ummm bottled water equals part of the problem and there is easy solutions to that!...however high speed internet these days is just a reality of the times, IMHO.

pauldavidmena - 6-12-2014 at 05:17 AM

BajaLuna - thanks for weighing in on this. Like monoloco, I don't see the Tres Santos development as either black or white, but rather an inevitability that can have its upside if managed responsibly.

BajaLuna - 6-12-2014 at 01:50 PM

I agree!

We aren't interested in moving into something like this, it's just way too big for our liking....but just for kicks want to check it out and see what all they have going on! It's a good concept but who knows if it will be successful!

Udo - 6-12-2014 at 05:07 PM

Thanks, mono loco.

I think my next trip down that way I'll google-earth the area to see where all the dirt roads are that lead to a beach.
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
My question...


Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.

However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:

In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero

Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?
Udo, What you are saying is simply not true, there are lots of public access places, even ones where. you can drive on to the beach. Just between Los Cerritos and San Pedrito, I can think of at least a dozen spots where you can access some beautiful (and empty) beaches. Legally, I believe that there is supposed to be a public access every 1000mts. There is one BIG walled subdivision about halfway up but there is an access point at the north end of it.

monoloco - 6-12-2014 at 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
Thanks, mono loco.

I think my next trip down that way I'll google-earth the area to see where all the dirt roads are that lead to a beach.


Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
My question...


Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.

However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:

In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero

Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?
Udo, What you are saying is simply not true, there are lots of public access places, even ones where. you can drive on to the beach. Just between Los Cerritos and San Pedrito, I can think of at least a dozen spots where you can access some beautiful (and empty) beaches. Legally, I believe that there is supposed to be a public access every 1000mts. There is one BIG walled subdivision about halfway up but there is an access point at the north end of it.
Or just stop by and I'll show you.

Udo - 6-13-2014 at 09:07 AM

That sound like a great idea, mono.

Check your u-2's

tiotomasbcs - 6-13-2014 at 03:31 PM

Hey Gang. Missed these posts as I was busy building high walls around my house and stringing barbed wire down at the beach access?! The main beach at Cerritos is the most beautiful beach in the area. Beach Restaurant , too. I wouldn't waste my time here in the Huerta as the roads are so bad and the locals .... PD, one visit to Peskys and you're writing a blog Pescadero Dreams?? Did I mention the Dengue fever problem? All in good humour, Amigos but Sssshhh, no magazine Covers, please. :smug::bounce::smug: Tio ps now back to the Sustainability/water issues plus of No Hay Santos.

[Edited on 6-13-2014 by tiotomasbcs]

pauldavidmena - 6-13-2014 at 03:43 PM

Tio - I drank the kool-aid - and it tasted like tequila! :cool:

Seriously, I realize that 4 visits to the Todos Santos area - and only one to Pescadero - doesn't constitute much in the way of research, but we plan to do much more exploring over the next few years, including visits during off-season and extended visits. With any luck I can find an IT gig that will allow me to work remotely, something my wife - who owns her own business - is already able to do.

[Edited on 6-13-2014 by pauldavidmena]

monoloco - 6-13-2014 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
Hey Gang. Missed these posts as I was busy building high walls around my house and stringing barbed wire down at the beach access?! The main beach at Cerritos is the most beautiful beach in the area. Beach Restaurant , too. I wouldn't waste my time here in the Huerta as the roads are so bad and the locals .... PD, one visit to Peskys and you're writing a blog Pescadero Dreams?? Did I mention the Dengue fever problem? All in good humour, Amigos but Sssshhh, no magazine Covers, please. :smug::bounce::smug: Tio ps now back to the Sustainability/water issues plus of No Hay Santos.

[Edited on 6-13-2014 by tiotomasbcs]
Has that spate of beheadings eased up yet so I can come home?:lol:

pauldavidmena - 6-19-2014 at 03:17 PM

Just found this article, which, while critical of the Tres Santos development, also highlights the fact that Colorado State University's involvement with the project is completely independent of it.

BFS - 6-19-2014 at 08:41 PM

Good read, thanks.

pauldavidmena - 8-12-2014 at 10:40 AM

Just read this letter to the President of CSU on todossantos.net. It seems that the water shortage in Baja California Sur is galvanizing opposition to the project.

pauldavidmena - 12-13-2014 at 03:27 PM

Here is a recent article on the project in "Travel Pulse" magazine. It bugs me to hear Todos Santos referred to as a "Tourist Town [Built] From Scratch" when it's been around for centuries, emerging as the sleepy ex-pat artist community I fell in love with over the past few decades.

wilderone - 12-15-2014 at 08:27 AM

I've never been to Todos Santos, so I have fresh eyes regarding the Tres Santos project. The architecture is cheap looking and not in conformance with its Mexican, Baja desert location. Looks like some "affordabe housing" project. Proposed 1500+ homes? Why? Who will be buying these homes? Make absolutely no sense. And the Colorado University deal? There's something hinky going on there no doubt. And where's the water? Sounds like the shenanigans that went on with Loreto Bay - only a fraction of them built and they left the project in chaos, none of the promises met. And much less to offer buyers at Todos Santos - no Gulf of California, further from a major town. I think all the buyers have been shaken from the trees years ago. LOTS of Baja property for sale now. Makes no sense.

wilderone - 12-15-2014 at 08:37 AM

From their website:
"Few places on earth rival the variety of natural assets found around Todos Santos. The Pacific, the endless shoreline, the pristine beaches and world-class surf breaks all draw a new kind of crowd. Adrenaline junkies, climbers, elite athletes in training. Those looking to commune with nature, who want to bike, swim and trek the terrain, the mountains, and the sand. And also those seeking a gentler path—walking, gardening, cooking, and photography. No matter the motivation, nature is close-up here."

THESE ARE NOT THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BUY A SECOND HOME IN THIS PROJECT. These are your average tourists who can find all of the above anywhere in Baja California. As for the gardening and cooking, plenty of land AND WATER in Missouri.

monoloco - 12-15-2014 at 01:16 PM

There is probably 15-20 homes a year sold in Todos Santos, so I seriously doubt that they will build 1500 anytime soon, maybe in 50 years. The market for that many homes simply does not exist, it seems like there is a lot of hand wringing here over nothing. If anything in this area is unsustainable, it's the giant agriculture projects that have gone in over the last 10 years, destroying 1000's of hectares of native plants, draining water tables, and contaminating the environment with massive amounts of toxic chemicals. Where were all these dune hugging environmentalists when they were bulldozing the desert for that? I believe that many of them are just worried about their view. Tres Santos is bringing much needed economic activity to Todos Santos, what opportunities will the locals have without projects like this? Selling trinkets to cruise ship tourists who come on the bus from Cabo? Working in virtual slavery for large agribusiness concerns? Being gardeners for retired gringos?

tiotomasbcs - 12-15-2014 at 02:16 PM

Mono, I have a question or two. Will the local Santenos work for min wages? They didn't for the big agri businesses! Cheap labor from the mainland and where will they live? And our beautiful beach at Cerritos is almost closed off to the public like they will do at Punta Lobos. My view is already taken by the California Green ( not veggies) kids. Wilderone's view is perceptive in that it doesn't seem to appeal to the average tourist; The Country Club and Yacht Club , Yes. And what about the Cartel shootings? Yes, I have a few doubts. Tio

monoloco - 12-15-2014 at 03:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tiotomasbcs  
Mono, I have a question or two. Will the local Santenos work for min wages? They didn't for the big agri businesses! Cheap labor from the mainland and where will they live? And our beautiful beach at Cerritos is almost closed off to the public like they will do at Punta Lobos. My view is already taken by the California Green ( not veggies) kids. Wilderone's view is perceptive in that it doesn't seem to appeal to the average tourist; The Country Club and Yacht Club , Yes. And what about the Cartel shootings? Yes, I have a few doubts. Tio
Let me ask you Tio, Where do think that economic opportunity for the locals should come from? Right now there are probably 20 dump truck drivers, many engineers, heavy equipment operators, construction workers, surveyors, etc. who have jobs because of this project.

pauldavidmena - 12-17-2014 at 08:26 AM

@monoloco - to your point, the Tres Santos folks were very active in the recovery efforts immediately following Odile. I imagine that can go a long way toward building good will within the community.

monoloco - 12-17-2014 at 10:41 AM

The gringo population of Todos Santos has gone from close to zero to probably 500+ in the last 30 years, so if you live in Todos, and believe that development is such a scourge, you are already part of the problem. I seriously doubt that a 32 room hotel and another 100 or 200 homes in a well planned development with good infrastructure is going to have more of an adverse effect than all the gringos who have come here and crammed homes into areas like La Cachora without upgrading the roads and infrastructure.

pauldavidmena - 12-18-2014 at 06:53 AM

I guess it's important for Nomad-Wannabees like me to resist the hypocrisy of being attracted to a place like Todos Santos because of decades of slow but steady progress while shaking our pale fists when the progress continues. Any economy that doesn't grow ultimately stagnates. One can only hope that the developers of Tres Santos are transparent and level-headed.

Tres Santos - Punta Lobo Marina?

elskel - 12-18-2014 at 07:31 PM

Hey the plans at one point showed a proposed marina. I heard this was out and the proposed marina had been re-located south of Cerritos and north of Rancho Nuevo. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? Or was the person I spoke to misinformed? thanks
bk

tiotomasbcs - 12-19-2014 at 01:11 PM

Looks like a Marina to me. It appears they are also filling in 100s meters of rock to build up their property at the beach. High tides and big surf have been carving away beaches and a few new houses in Pescadero have ocean splash within a few meters of their front decks. Hhmmm, economic development in the future of Todos...I'm still mulling this over, Mono. Slow Growth appears out. What about my questions? Will locals work for min wages? Iasked first, ja ja. Tio

monoloco - 12-19-2014 at 04:42 PM

Tio, Does anyone in Mexico work for minimum wage? I believe it's around 50 pesos a day currently.

Tres Santos - Punta Lobo Marina?

elskel - 12-27-2014 at 10:29 AM

I just looked at the web - reviewing the plans for this development on the website I and do not see any mention of a marina. Has anyone heard anything about a marina south of Cerritos and north of Rancho Nuevo? bk

monoloco - 12-27-2014 at 01:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elskel  
I just looked at the web - reviewing the plans for this development on the website I and do not see any mention of a marina. Has anyone heard anything about a marina south of Cerritos and north of Rancho Nuevo? bk
Every few years there is talk of it, but I've never seen anything concrete. The logistics and capital required for such a project on an open Pacific beach are such that it will not likely happen anytime soon.

Beagle - 12-28-2014 at 10:03 AM

I haven't looked too hard at this thread but is this about all of that construction down at Punto Lobo??

pauldavidmena - 12-28-2014 at 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Beagle  
I haven't looked too hard at this thread but is this about all of that construction down at Punto Lobo??


I believe that's correct - at the very Southern end of Todos Santos as you enter from Cabo.

pauldavidmena - 2-7-2015 at 12:50 PM

According to this article in the Baja Insider, Tres Santos is a happening thing. During my last trip to Todos Santos, they had their hub set up at the corner of Calle Juarez and Marquez de Leon, where they were handing out literature advertising pre-sales of lots and condos. I'm hoping that development will be done in manageable phases, and that the efforts to be transparent and visible within the community continue.

Mika - 2-7-2015 at 06:54 PM

Hello,

I just returned from Baja visiting La Paz, Cabo and Todos Santos area. I love going to Punta Lobos so we went there this time too. I was shocked to see the development there. So far there is no buildings there but every day a few dump trucks were going like clockwork bringing dirt and filling a huge section right where the fishermen launch their boats and sell fish.

Once we were up on the hill, we could see a big chunk of land was cleared and flattened and being filled. It didn't look like "mega" development right now, but it is matter of time, I think.

Years ago, Cerritos was a beautiful quiet beach, but now it is just an ugly developed place (with good waves). The access to the beach is getting more and more limited. I am sad to think Punta Lobos will be the next.