BajaNomad - Healthcare options on a Visitante visa

Healthcare options on a Visitante visa

pauldavidmena - 7-16-2014 at 04:21 PM

Our retirement plans continue to evolve, but given that my wife owns her own business and doesn't plan to retire when I do (about 5 years from now), chances are that we won't seek a Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente visa any time soon. If I'm reading correctly, this would rule out Seguro Popular. Apart from cash at a private hospital (e.g. St. Luke's in Todos Santos), what are the healthcare options in the event of an emergency?

monoloco - 7-16-2014 at 06:16 PM

There are many companies that sell health insurance for international travel including Blue Cross.

pauldavidmena - 7-16-2014 at 07:17 PM

I have Blue Cross / Blue Shield now, and I know that they will reimburse for expenses incurred internationally. What I don't know is 1) whether they will pre-authorize payment directly from the insurer or require $ up front from the insured (me), and 2) whether I can continue to afford this type of coverage after I hang up my shingle at work.

EnsenadaDr - 7-16-2014 at 07:57 PM

why would you not obtain a visa especially when it's the law in Mexico?

EnsenadaDr - 7-16-2014 at 07:58 PM

You will have to pay up front off your credit card and they won't let you out of the hospital if you don't pay.

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldavidmena
I have Blue Cross / Blue Shield now, and I know that they will reimburse for expenses incurred internationally. What I don't know is 1) whether they will pre-authorize payment directly from the insurer or require $ up front from the insured (me), and 2) whether I can continue to afford this type of coverage after I hang up my shingle at work.

rhintransit - 7-16-2014 at 08:09 PM

it's cash or credit card before you leave the hospital. depending on where you are, prices for care can be surprisingly low, or surprisingly high. get itemized copies of the bill (good luck) and present them to BC/BS for reimbursement (good luck).
whether you can continue to afford BC/BS after you retire is a question for that insurer, and yourself. becoming a temporary or permanent resident makes the most sense as you can then apply for one of the low cost insurance policies here. however I use those as emergency back ups and would head for the USA asap. for years I kept up my BC/BS for that possibility, never needed fortunately.

pauldavidmena - 7-17-2014 at 05:38 AM

Thanks very much for the informative feedback. Here's my current situation: a few years ago we seemed on track to retire to Baja in the 2020 timeframe. Once we started looking into some of the logistics - for example my wife's U.S. based company - it seemed to make sense to split our time between Baja and the States. Now my wife is getting cold feet about actually living in Mexico and is thinking more along the lines of being based in the U.S. and taking lengthy vacations to Baja. Not to belabor the issue, but that's why the Temporary and Permanent visas are not in play.

EnsenadaDr - 7-17-2014 at 07:09 AM

The temporary visa you get when crossing the border into Mexico is only for 30 days. Anyone that does not have at least a $20,000 credit line on their credit card is playing a huge crap shoot to come into Mexico with no healthcare coverage. Like many have attested to, you will not be released from the hospital without paying your bill, and the bill can be cheap up to thousands of dollars, depending on the problem. Don't gamble with your pocketbook. Get Seguro Popular in Mexico, and if needed, transported to the US later. All insurances from the States I know of need to be paid out of pocket first and are not guaranteed. The DAN insurance for transportation to the States appears to be a good deal, at least the best deal I have seen since an ambulance only 80 miles south of the border will cost you at least $1200 to be transported to the US.

pauldavidmena - 7-17-2014 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The temporary visa you get when crossing the border into Mexico is only for 30 days. Anyone that does not have at least a $20,000 credit line on their credit card is playing a huge crap shoot to come into Mexico with no healthcare coverage. Like many have attested to, you will not be released from the hospital without paying your bill, and the bill can be cheap up to thousands of dollars, depending on the problem. Don't gamble with your pocketbook. Get Seguro Popular in Mexico, and if needed, transported to the US later. All insurances from the States I know of need to be paid out of pocket first and are not guaranteed. The DAN insurance for transportation to the States appears to be a good deal, at least the best deal I have seen since an ambulance only 80 miles south of the border will cost you at least $1200 to be transported to the US.

Only 30 days? For some reason I thought it was 6 months. If that's the case, and we spend more than 30 days here at a time, I completely agree it makes sense to get Seguro Popular. I've never been a gambling man...

monoloco - 7-17-2014 at 07:51 AM

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

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A tourist visa is good for up to 6 months.

rhintransit - 7-17-2014 at 08:12 AM

FMM (old tourist visa) is good for 180 days. looks like your options are just like traveling to any other foreign country. maintain your US insurance, get travel insurance, and pay out of pocket and hope for reimbursement.

EnsenadaDr - 7-17-2014 at 08:23 AM

The problem also being if you leave and come back to the States your visa is no longer valid. I think because I left Mexico after 30 days the visa was no longer valid and has to be renewed.

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Originally posted by monoloco

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

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A tourist visa is good for up to 6 months.

pauldavidmena - 7-17-2014 at 09:00 AM

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Originally posted by rhintransit
FMM (old tourist visa) is good for 180 days. looks like your options are just like traveling to any other foreign country. maintain your US insurance, get travel insurance, and pay out of pocket and hope for reimbursement.

Truth be told, it's nice just thinking about traveling to Baja for more than infrequent, one-week visits. :cool:

rhintransit - 7-17-2014 at 09:07 AM

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

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Truth be told, it's nice just thinking about traveling to Baja for more than infrequent, one-week visits. :cool:

yep, and if your wife has developed cold feet about living in Mexico part time, the insurance thing could be another excuse for her to say no long trips south of border.

pauldavidmena - 7-17-2014 at 09:14 AM

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Originally posted by rhintransit

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

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Truth be told, it's nice just thinking about traveling to Baja for more than infrequent, one-week visits. :cool:

yep, and if your wife has developed cold feet about living in Mexico part time, the insurance thing could be another excuse for her to say no long trips south of border.

That's part of it, even though both of us are in good health and in our mid-50s. She read this article in MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-reasons-not-to-retire-abr...), and it's had more of an impact than I expected. On the other hand, it's been a few months since our last snow storm. If we get whacked again like we did last winter, she might be whistling a different tune... :yes:

Mulegena - 7-17-2014 at 12:48 PM

My experience:

To get Seguro Popular you need:
1) proof of residency (such as a current electric bill, rental receipt from a landlord).
2) a Mexican visa of some sort (I don't know if an FMM (tourist visa of 180 days would suffice).
3) CURP Card with Number
4) Application form provided by Seguro Popular

Immigration does issue a CURP number which is printed on your Residency Visa, Temporary or Permanent. You can ask them for a print-out of the CURP Card, too.

There may be another way of a foreigner obtaining a CURP Card or Seguro Popular. Perhaps someone else has experience? And again, the process of enrolling in Seguro Popular may differ from locale to locale, i.e. Baja Norte may-- in practice-- have different requirements from Baja Sur.

Perhaps the best way is to check with the Seguro Popular office which is closest to where you'll be living. They can tell you more definitively what you'll need to qualify.

Alm - 7-20-2014 at 01:33 AM

Technically, tourist permit is a single-entry, and you must return it on your way back North, but Mexicans don't care and tourists use that 180 days permit again and again until it expires.

SEGURO with no other status but a tourist permit - don't know if anybody was able to get it. For visitor, whose status is by definition a temporary one and a very short-term at that, to claim that he has a "permanent address" in Mexico - sounds like a legal oxymarooon. Though, if worse comes to worse and they "blow your cover"

, you don't have much to lose. SEGURO only works in public hospitals, not private, and cost of a major surgery in a public hospital with a few days stay is normally below 20K. I'm sure you can afford this.

pauldavidmena - 7-20-2014 at 06:09 AM

Realistically, we're talking about extending our current one-week visits to trips of a month or two in the next few years. We're both in good health and should be able to defer anything other than a medical emergency to when we've returned to the States.

Should things change and we start thinking about some sort of residency (complete with permanent address), then it makes perfect sense to get Seguro Popular.

Pescador - 7-20-2014 at 08:38 AM

Okay, here we go again.
First, A tourist card is good for 180 days. If you are driving down it is good for 180 days from the day of issue. If you fly, you will surrender when you board the plane.
Second. You will need a water, phone, or electric bill to show you are living or renting in Mexico. Most offices do not require a Visa but as with all things in Mexico, some of the offices may ask for it. I have helped a friend get a Seguro Popular card with only a Tourist Visa.
You will be required to get a CURP card and that is usually done in a major city. In Santa Rosalia, it is a one stop process and they issue you the number on the same day you apply. For awhile we needed a CURP number to get a phone.
Now, it may be a good idea to have a Seguro Popular card ifyou are spending any time down here but you may be better off investing in an Evacuation Plan that will fly you home in the event of a medical problem. Depending on your particular plan with Blue Cross, Blue Shield you are normally covered for anything that is life or limb threatening, but you are normally required to pay the bill and then turn in for reimbursement. You have to make that determination and if you were a client, I would assist you in making that determination on a financial basis. In other words, if you could afford to put up to $25,000 on a credit card and get reimbursed when you returned home, it is different than if you could only put $5,000.

You also need to do a medical history evaluation and see if you have any things like high blood pressure, diabetes, genetic pre-disposition towards any illnesses that would cause you worry.

CaboMagic - 7-20-2014 at 08:50 AM

My ten pesos of experience: (thanks Mulegena!)

Request your visa to be good for 180 days .. the immigration 'agent' might 'assume' 30 days ..

Alm - 7-20-2014 at 12:42 PM

Yes, it doesn't hurt to tell INM for how many days you want a tourist visa.

You MUST return your tourist visa/permit not only when you're flying out, but also when driving out or walking out. This is the law. If it is physically difficult to drop it off on our way out, then you must mail it to INM. Though, tourists have been ignoring this law for years, without much consequences.

[Edited on 7-20-2014 by Alm]

Alm - 7-20-2014 at 01:29 PM

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Originally posted by Pescador
Most offices do not require a {resident} Visa

One those things that are not supposed to happen. But, as usual with Mexico, what is not supposed to happen, happens

...

I can't open the official fine print of SEGURO from my location. From what I read in their rules for Distrito Federal, there exist different "modelos de afiliación" - eligible groups of enrollment.

Anyway, before going into eligibility and documents required, at the very beginning they use term "residente". A lawyer - which I am not - would hopefully offer better explanations, but from where I'm standing, tourist is a "visitante", not "residente". The office didn't ask about resident status, alright, but they required CURP. Correct me if I'm wrong, a CURP purports that a person is a resident.

Ah, what the heck, could be a loophole in their laws. Wouldn't be the first time.

tourist permit return on leaving?

akshadow - 7-20-2014 at 04:13 PM

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Originally posted by Alm
Yes, it doesn't hurt to tell INM for how many days you want a tourist visa.

You MUST return your tourist visa/permit not only when you're flying out, but also when driving out or walking out. This is the law. If it is physically difficult to drop it off on our way out, then you must mail it to INM. Though, tourists have been ignoring this law for years, without much consequences.

[Edited on 7-20-2014 by Alm]

Agent in Mexicali told me when I asked about going to the states for a couple of days, to get prescriptions etc. to not bother turning it in. He did not even mention turning it in for longer absences.
I think he viewed it as extra work, or people would just come and go in "7 day increments."

Pescador - 7-20-2014 at 08:36 PM

The following is the best description in English I have found of SP, and it may help in the present discussion.

http://jointlearningnetwork.org/content/seguro-popular

Alm - 7-20-2014 at 10:31 PM

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Originally posted by akshadow
Agent in Mexicali told me when I asked about going to the states for a couple of days, to get prescriptions etc. to not bother turning it in. He did not even mention turning it in for longer absences.
I think he viewed it as extra work, or people would just come and go in "7 day increments."

Another agent told another tourist that he didn't need a tourist card if going to San Quintin for a few days. You can hear odd things from them sometimes. Yes, they are unwilling to enforce their own laws. Big news

. And then somebody decides to enforce it - when some particularly educated agent would suddenly realize that computers do keep track of those FMM stubs, duh! - and tell unfortunate tourist to pay $US 200, or 400, or 800, depending on number of days passed since expiration. Price is officially negotiable, the idea is that better to get something than nothing, and not to kill that goose yet. Doesn't happen often though. They don't want to kill the toursim.

I don't understand about "7 day increments". Law requires you to get the card if you're staying within the border zone more than 72 hours. Beyond the border zone you are required to have a tourist card from the day one. Again, this is what is "required". Other than fly-outs, they may never ask you to produce it. Of the last 9 or 10 ground crossings, by bus and car, I only had to show this card 2 times.

[Edited on 7-21-2014 by Alm]

Alm - 7-20-2014 at 10:36 PM

Pescador - it's a good summary on SEGURO, thanks.

Probabilities

SFandH - 7-21-2014 at 06:46 AM

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

That's part of it, even though both of us are in good health and in our mid-50s.

Sounds like the chances you'll need medical services are pretty slim. Certainly less than someone in their mid-70s with a heart condition of some sort.

Of course accidents, as opposed to illness, happen to all, maybe.

It's a gamble.

Just wondering if people think along those lines.

pauldavidmena - 7-21-2014 at 06:56 AM

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Originally posted by SFandH

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Originally posted by pauldavidmena

That's part of it, even though both of us are in good health and in our mid-50s.

Always - my maternal grandfather died at 46. I'm trying to do my part by getting regular check-ups, eating healthy food and not smoking. The future isn't guaranteed to anyone, so it's best to live it now. :yes:

mrfatboy - 7-21-2014 at 07:04 AM

I have been flying out of Tijuana for the last couple of years to my Mexican destinations. The tourist visa has always been good for 180 days. My trips have always been 1 week trips. I have always reused the visa within the 180 day period when possible. They never have asked for it back when I have flown back into tij. Why would they? I could just be visiting TJ for a couple of days and flying back somewhere. Out of all those trips they only asked me once to even see it. YMMV.

If you fly out of the US I would think this is completely different since the visa is included in the price if the airfare and is surrendered when you return to the states.

EnsenadaDr - 7-21-2014 at 09:56 AM

In any case, with the horror stories I have been reading, don't go to Mexico without $20.000 on your credit card in case of an emergency or have Mexican insurance.

7 day increments?

akshadow - 7-21-2014 at 10:28 AM

Thought he assumed cheap americans would just get a free one for 7 days, overstay, and at some future crossing get another free one. We are talking about someone who is close to the border and crossing is not a big time expenditure.

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Originally posted by Alm

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Alm - 7-21-2014 at 12:14 PM

Ah, yes, I've heard of that 7-day FMM for free. But this is - I think - only if you stay within the border zone. No FMM for the first 3 days in the border zone, free FMM up to 7 days. Not sure how many "cheap Americans" would do this, considering inconvenience and cost of trips that they would have to make every 7 days. $US 23 is amount small enough, if somebody can't afford it, they shouldn't go for anything more than a day-trip to Tijuana and Rosarito.

Back to the topic

- I think there is quite a lot of gamblers that are going in without travel medical. Some Canadians do that. Canadian Medicare covers 100% of emergency treatment. In theory, unlimited hospital stay and medications. The caveat is that they cover it up to Canadian Medicare limits that are a bit lower than average US hospital. Enough to cover the cost of Mex public hospital, but I wouldn't risk going with this to a private hospital.

Some others keep only evac plan, saying (and I agree) that going to a "clinica" in a small place like, say, St. Rosalia, is a waste of time. The problem with evac plan is - besides a requirement to be 99 miles away from "main home" at the time of injury or illness - is that Baja is such a huge place. Small airports are closed in the night. Some other airports are not big enough for providers like Med Jet. If ask Pescador, he'll tell you more. And such a life-saving flight is a VERY slow thing, may easily take 12-14 hours in a day time in a major town with big airport like La Paz or Loreto, counting from the time of the first phone call to landing NOB, plus some time in traffic to get to the hospital. Booking the flight, going through border formalities, airport transfers etc. In the evening or on a weekend few hundred miles away from major airport - make it a day or two.