BajaNomad - WTF, I don't get it.

WTF, I don't get it.

weebray - 10-23-2014 at 09:59 AM

Mid summer here WTF burgers opened up on the malecon. They were adjacent to and using the kitchen of Palermo restaurant. We drove by yesterday and they are gone, vaporized. Their burger were excellent albeit pricy. How can someone open a place and not make it thru at least one "high season" cycle? This is not an unique example here in La Paz. It happens a lot. I would think they had enough reserve to give it a try for a year? I don't get it.

David K - 10-23-2014 at 10:01 AM

Maybe a bad choice in names???

WTF???

bajaguy - 10-23-2014 at 10:03 AM

WTF = Where's the Fries???

willardguy - 10-23-2014 at 10:05 AM

http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/en-2014-mas-de-50-restaurantes-en-...

bacquito - 10-23-2014 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
WTF = Where's the Fries???

bajalearner - 10-23-2014 at 10:12 AM

I believe; top three reasons why a business closes. 1. Not enough money coming in, 2. Not enough money coming in. 3. Not enough money coming in.

I'm not an expert but I've heard a new business owner should start with enough money to let the business grow long enough until it starts making money.

[Edited on 10-23-2014 by bajalearner]

vandenberg - 10-23-2014 at 10:17 AM

And..... you can only get so much money for a burger, no matter how good it is.

The Shack's burgers are very good and if you order one in the 8 to 9 dollar range you get enough for 2 people. Now that's the way to do business. Go Trave !!

bajaspuds - 10-23-2014 at 10:44 AM

... did somebody say fries?

got 'em

o3dave - 10-23-2014 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
And..... you can only get so much money for a burger, no matter how good it is.

The Shack's burgers are very good and if you order one in the 8 to 9 dollar range you get enough for 2 people. Now that's the way to do business. Go Trave !!

This shack is in La Paz as well?

Why businesses fail

bajaguy - 10-23-2014 at 11:24 AM

1. No customer base survey
2. No site survey
3. No business plan
4. Trusting your managers and employees
5. Trusting your vendors
6. No consistency in product or service
7. Absentee ownership
8. Indifferent employees

[Edited on 10-23-2014 by bajaguy]

Udo - 10-23-2014 at 11:37 AM

Although partially true, the number one reason a restaurant closes is lack of customer service.

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalearner
I believe; top three reasons why a business closes. 1. Not enough money coming in, 2. Not enough money coming in. 3. Not enough money coming in.

I'm not an expert but I've heard a new business owner should start with enough money to let the business grow long enough until it starts making money.

[Edited on 10-23-2014 by bajalearner]

David K - 10-23-2014 at 12:21 PM

'Bad food' has got to be included... or maybe consistent bad food!?? :light:

vandenberg - 10-23-2014 at 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by o3dave

Quote:

This shack is in La Paz as well?

Right at the beginning of the Malecon, between Allende and Pineda

Skipjack Joe - 10-23-2014 at 12:42 PM

Bad food, good roads
Good roads, bad people

I'm so confused.

Bajaboy - 10-23-2014 at 12:45 PM

I agree with Udo but would add perceived value as well. I don't mind spending 9 bucks on a burger if it's a 9 dollar burger. Perception is reality.

vandenberg - 10-23-2014 at 12:51 PM

I was in the restaurant/bar business most of my life, either as a manager or an owner.
As an owner, being short on capital can do you in in a hurry, a fact I'm very familiar with

And it takes time to establish a new business and attract repeat customers, whom you need to survive.
And than, the most important trick in this business is to have the right help.
They can make or break you, another fact I'm familiar with. :saint:

[Edited on 10-23-2014 by vandenberg]

BajaBlanca - 10-23-2014 at 12:52 PM

sorry to hear they closed. poof! went the dream.

unless perhaps they just changed location?

willardguy - 10-23-2014 at 12:58 PM

what, four and a half bucks with fries and a drink? just sayin..... :yes:

vandenberg - 10-23-2014 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
what, four and a half bucks with fries and a drink? just sayin..... :yes:

Put one out for 31/2 bucks and put your family to work. :biggrin:

cabobaja - 10-23-2014 at 02:27 PM

Paz n Go on 5 de Febrero in La Paz. Great burgers, fries and cold pacificos. Clean, good
service and great prices.

Bajaboy - 10-23-2014 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cabobaja
Paz n Go on 5 de Febrero in La Paz. Great burgers, fries and cold pacificos. Clean, good
service and great prices.

I'll take you up on the invite :light:

weebray - 10-23-2014 at 02:37 PM

Excuse me but I would think all this would have been carefully considered before wasting a bunch of time and money on a new venture. I understand an established business going down hill and failing after establishing a good reputation. Palermo has fallen off mucho lately and one of the most outstanding marisco places - El Carrito - right next to Palermo just closed after almost 30 years. They both are failing because of poor service and lower and lower and lower quality and variety. I still can't figure out why someone wasted a bunch of time and money and didn't allow it some time to jell. The atmosphere at The Shack is not for everyone but, at least, they have stuck to their plan. I can't say that of the goofball that started WTF.

weebray - 10-23-2014 at 02:41 PM

BTW. We just (4 of us) ate at Paz 'n Go an hour ago. The last time we ate there we were delighted. Today the pan was stale, the burgers were cremated and the service indifferent. Consistency is another big problem here in Baja Sur. We raved about the place and took our friends there today. Today we were embarrassed.

norte - 10-23-2014 at 02:42 PM

Only on this forum. multitude of posters and posts on how this place should have been managed... food service consultants all. :lol:

Give em a break.

oh and their goofballs too.

weebray - 10-23-2014 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Only on this forum. multitude of posters and posts on how this place should have been managed... food service consultants all. :lol:

Give em a break.

oh and their goofballs too.

We did give them a break. We even promoted them on this forum. I was asking a generic question about a common problem here. I appreciate ALL the constructive comments by all of you. Hopefully someone thinking of a start up here will take some of the valid points posted here. The collective brainpower of this forum could be invaluable to an investor. It has taken some time but, in time, it will be obvious who's posts you don't need to read.

vandenberg - 10-23-2014 at 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
oh and their goofballs too.

They're

bajagrouper - 10-23-2014 at 03:28 PM

Maybe the owners could not afford the protection money extorted by the gangs...

Katiejay99 - 10-23-2014 at 03:51 PM

There is a new restaurant here in Todos Santos. I can't even remember the name of it but I thought I would try it out. I went over and the owner and the waiters were all sitting around outside and as I walked up I told them I wanted to check out what they have.

So the waiter came over and handed me a menu which surprised me as I thought they would want me to go inside and sit down. Then the owner said he would give me free flan for dessert. I told him thank you but I really don't care for Flan. Then he said the special was some asparagus thing and I told him I don't like asparagus. Then he recommended something that I had no idea what it was and he explained that it was great and had spinach inside of it. Um, I don't like Spinach, either.

So, I asked if I could have a seat and maybe just drink a beer and make a decision. He said the beer was not cold yet.

I left and went and ate somewhere else.

cabobaja - 10-23-2014 at 03:56 PM

Bajaboy, El Zac, come on down. The invite is open for you, Tracy and the kids. The owner is
a friend. He wanted to name the joint In n Out, but got corporate flack. Then Out n In. Same.
Paz N Go works well. You would be at home there.....cold Pacificos.

cabobaja - 10-23-2014 at 04:01 PM

Well, i hit post reply and received 4 duplicate post. Must be due to something here in the air
In Todos. Did not even get 4 more posts added to my total of 346. Should it not be 350?
Oh well, I will catch DK and Dennis, but it might not be until 2038.

weebray - 10-23-2014 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cabobaja
Bajaboy, El Zac, come on down. The invite is open for you, Tracy and the kids. The owner is
a friend. He wanted to name the joint In n Out, but got corporate flack. Then Out n In. Same.
Paz N Go works well. You would be at home there.....cold Pacificos.

Bajaboy, I appreciate your promoting PNG but Please relay our experience of today. I was wishing there was a way to contact him. Today was our 3rd time there and the food really was not very good. The bread was stale, the meat overcooked (we requested medium rare, as always) and although it's a pickey point the meat on my wife's burger was hanging out one side, like the cook didn't give a chit. The biggest problem was that we were introducing our friends to the place. They will not hurry back. Thanks!

David K - 10-23-2014 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cabobaja
Well, i hit post reply and received 4 duplicate post. Must be due to something here in the air
In Todos. Did not even get 4 more posts added to my total of 346. Should it not be 350?
Oh well, I will catch DK and Dennis, but it might not be until 2038.

If it gets too scary seeing so many posts... you can click on Edit, Delete, Delete Post... and poof, the extra posts are gone! Or, wait until Doug gets on and deletes them for you!!

Bajaboy - 10-23-2014 at 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

If it gets too scary seeing so many posts... you can click on Edit, Delete, Delete Post... and poof, the extra posts are gone! Or, wait until Doug gets on and deletes them for you!!

I assumed he wanted to make the point that I should come on down for a burger...maybe in January :light:

fishbuck - 10-23-2014 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
what, four and a half bucks with fries and a drink? just sayin..... :yes:

Just sayin'

cabobaja - 10-24-2014 at 01:48 PM

Thanks DK...., looks like Doug delelted the extra post. Thanks Doug!

Zac, really? Will we see the family in January? Hope so!,

Alan - 10-24-2014 at 02:26 PM

I saw the Paz n Go last spring and loved the name.

danaeb - 10-24-2014 at 02:33 PM

I don't get it either, because KoiSushi which is next door to WTF just closed a couple of weeks ago too. I wonder if the closings are related?

Speaking of WTF, here's another foodie article on Tijuana:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/oct/22/blog-diego-wt...

[Edited on 10-24-2014 by danaeb]

motoged - 10-24-2014 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by weebray
..... and although it's a pickey point the meat on my wife's burger was hanging out one side, like the cook didn't give a chit. ....

Oh.....the horror....the horror :biggrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

Your other criticisms are salient.... :saint:

[Edited on 10-25-2014 by motoged]

bajalearner - 10-24-2014 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Only on this forum. multitude of posters and posts on how this place should have been managed... food service consultants all. :lol:

Give em a break.

oh and their goofballs too.

Really? Only on this forum live people with brains??? None on the other forums? Makes me happy to be on this forum then. :coolup:

Inquiring minds want to know.

Bajahowodd - 10-24-2014 at 05:00 PM

The number one reason that new businesses fail in the states, especially restaurants, is because the owners did not have sufficient money to ride out the period where they were building their clientele. Fundamentally, new businesses can expect to lose money when they open, for quite a while. If they dump all their money up front, they will be toast.

MitchMan - 10-25-2014 at 07:32 PM

Worked in the restaurant business as a cook, bartender, then as a manager for restaurants and nightclubs during my 20’s. I have always liked food and I love to cook anytime, anywhere.

But, I don’t like going to restaurants much because 1) Don’t like paying for a meal where the cost is priced typically 400% of the cost of the original food itself 2) only get adequate service 50% of the time, bad service about 30% of the time 3) food not delivered hot and fresh 60% of the time, 4) food not prepared properly at least 50% of the time (for dinners it is at least 70% of the time) 5) I refuse to wait more than 15 minutes before being seated.

When you take all that together, it is actually and statistically too seldom that one gets seated right away and gets good service and good hot food prepared properly on the same visit, but you always pay 100% of the price! When you pay the restaurant price for the meal, you should get all those things I mentioned above at least most of the time…not so at all in the real world, in Baja or in the USA. I gave it a try for many years. The restaurant industry gets a big fat “F” from me.

I have noticed that the worse a person is as a cook, the more they actually like going to restaurants. Not a bad or immoral thing. Just saying a generality, but it seems to be generally true in my observation.

The restaurant chain that I worked for focused on customer service and made it mandatory for managers to be out on the floor DURING the entire meal times actually MANAGING and expediting things and made us personally responsible for food cost %, labor cost%, and pouring cost%. Over the years I have noticed that restaurants rarely have managers/owners on the floor during meal times…no excuse for that, but it is rampant. Makes me short tempered. I mean, where the helll are they during that time? I’d like to know.

To be successful in the restaurant business requires many, many coincident things being correct, more so than in other businesses: menu, pricing, décor, proper/good food prep, cleanliness, good service, good location, effective promotion and advertising, direct cost control (pouring cost, labor cost, food cost and portion control, frequent periodic regular inventories and good reorder procedures), internal controls (monthly/annual accrual basis financial statements with budget and variance analyses, cash controls, daily guest check audit, guest check tracking per food server, labor hours verification, no food take home for employees, back door locked except when there are deliveries during non-rush hours only, check all deliveries against order/invoice) and optimum matching of these things to the market in its location. A material deficit in any of these can spell doom for a restaurant.
And last and probably the most important is MANAGEMENT.

The most glaring and major deficiency of many restaurants is not having good management. A manager should know food, know the bar, know how to run the floor, know how to manage his own time, know how to train, know how to hire, be proactive on all things, be perceived by employees as very approachable, know how to discipline, how to inspire and reward, and know how to make sure all employees are always busy, always doing their job…ALWAYS and at every moment. There should literally never be any slack time for anyone…ever. A well run restaurant should have a management policy of cross training so that everyone knows how to help other people when they are busier than them and be required to step in to do so without being asked; makes it more interesting for the employees, and really goes a long way in reducing labor cost, in fact, cross training provides the opportunity for tighter scheduling which really keeps labor cost optimally low while providing good consistent service and product. Also, there should always be constant oversight by knowledgeable management.

If the manager knows how to manage and hire people, there won’t be any slackers or thieves on staff for any material length of time, just disciplined, busy people doing their job and it is the managers job to make sure thru his/her oversight that they are all doing their jobs at all times.

Yes it’s hard to find good help. But, a good manager can consistently take mediocre employees and make them good employees, and the good manager will know whom to get rid of and knows how to replace them with someone who will take the training. As an example, some times a school can have a superb athlete by accident from time to time, but in 99% of the time, it’s the coach that makes the difference for a consistently winning team, whether it’s in a large school or a small school.

It’s not easy, but it’s fun.

But, like many, many businesses, believe it or not, many and certainly some are successful by luck, that is they get some things right by accident or without knowing they are doing it right. They happen to have a great location and/or their menu and prices fit their market perfectly, they have a great cook without having to pay him/her what they are worth, same for a hired manager, or their décor is a big hit by accident, they are providing a type of restaurant where there is no competition near by…luckily the only game in town. Or, for some unknown reason to the owners, there is an ambience by luck that draws more than their fair share of customers. It happens. Believe me, not all successful people know why they are successful; they just know how they did it.

Just for the record, most all independently owned small retail businesses, including restaurants, are barely making it. If you think that lasting a long time is the litmus test for success, then there are a lot of such ‘successful’ restaurants that are actually just barely making it for a long time. That means they have been able to pay all of there expenses and there has been just enough profit left for the owner to live on and be independent.

I have seen many restaurant locations that have had a succession of restaurants that eventually failed until a Chinese restaurant comes in, then it stays open seemingly forever. That is because they have family (the entire family, extended members and all) work saving on labor cost then the business can yield just enough profit to support itself. You know, some of their menu items are very labor intensive. Such Chinese restaurants that I have been to usually have very reasonable prices.

I think the trickiest part for the restaurant owner is to decide how to compete, whether it is by way of price competition or quality competition or ambience/décor or uniqueness of cuisine or blitz promotion. Let’s face it, it is a zero sum game meaning that just because a restaurant opens up, doesn’t mean that more people will decide to eat out, it means that there is a finite number dining people with more than enough restaurants to serve them already, so, it is a question of “how does the owner woo them to leave the other restaurants and go to his/her restaurant instead”?

I have one more business left in me. It’s going to be a little restaurant and/or a cantina. Got spreadsheets detailing everything. Just have to decide how I am going to take customers from other businesses. Is it going to be: price, superb food quality, unique cuisine, super attractive décor, unique décor, superb service, great location (high rent), perpetual Blitz promotion/advertising campaign, or some combination of the preceding and have enough capital to sustain net break even for one year and depend on word of mouth (which is my preferred way to do it). In my view, if you can’t achieve break even for the last twelfth month of the first year, you guest wrong and it’s a failing proposition. It’s a gamble. In my view, it’s worth the gamble. It’s actually fun to be in business for your self. If you haven’t tried being in business for yourself, you are missing out on a prime life experience.

Actually, I don’t think that you can call yourself a true conservative unless you accomplish having been a successful entrepreneur.

monoloco - 10-26-2014 at 07:50 AM

Great points MitchMan, I am very seldom impressed with restaurant food, just too spoiled from the quality I'm used to at home.

gnukid - 10-26-2014 at 09:16 AM

All points very well said!

The fact that places like La Paz are notorious for hit and miss restaurants has much to do with the fact that the great cooks are at home having a great time with family and friends.

If you want a good meal, invite friends over or get yourself invited to a house party. Party at Mitch's!

weebray - 10-26-2014 at 09:17 AM

You pretty much covered the bases here M Man. I will add one other critical factor you have not mentioned - parking. My son has a restaurant on Sunset Blvd. in LA. It is a fairly good North American style Mexican restaurant. It has one thing that sets is apart from the hundreds of other eateries on Sunset. It is wildly successful because it has it's own off-street parking lot. My original post about WTF burgers demonstrates this, no parking. Trust me, most people will not walk a block to have a meal, in fact, they really prefer not to even get out of their car. Within 20 min. of downtown LA you can hike in unspoiled wilderness if you are willing to get out of your car and walk 10 or 15 min.

MitchMan - 10-26-2014 at 01:13 PM

monoloco and gnukid, you guys got it right. Great food consistently at home...and the service is great. Beats the heck out of going to restaurants for me too...and the price is right. I agree, visiting with friends over a good meal at home is better than the distraction of a crowd around you.

weebray, great point. There are my ostensibly great locations, see them almost every day, but without adequate parking or requiring prospective customers to hike to your location and you will lose them as customers. It's a no go. Good point.

mulegemichael - 10-26-2014 at 01:50 PM

mm...i consider myself a successful entrepreneur having started several thriving businesses from scratch....but i sure as hell do not consider myself a "conservative"...just what in the world does that have to do with anything?...those subjects just have absolutely nothing to do with each other!

motoged - 10-26-2014 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MitchMan
Worked in the restaurant business as a cook......
Actually, I don’t think that you can call yourself a true conservative unless you accomplish having been a successful entrepreneur.

MM,
I thought you were making sense until the "conservative" comment

Waddya mean?????

I am a successful entrepreneur in my own little world and would not consider myself a "conservative", unless you mean "conserving and not wasting".

Bajahowodd - 10-26-2014 at 05:00 PM

Geez. If you are on the road, as many of us our, you can't invite friends and family to cook at home.

Lets talk about the good restaurants along the way on Mex 1.

From my experience, for dinner, the restaurant at Jardines cannot be beat in the area. For breakfast, try Ed's Bajas Best.

In Santa Rosalita, El Muelle rocks the town.

On and on.....

bajaguy - 10-26-2014 at 08:19 PM

Too many great places in Ensenada to list

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Geez. If you are on the road, as many of us our, you can't invite friends and family to cook at home.

Lets talk about the good restaurants along the way on Mex 1.

From my experience, for dinner, the restaurant at Jardines cannot be beat in the area. For breakfast, try Ed's Bajas Best.

In Santa Rosalita, El Muelle rocks the town.

On and on.....

Bajahowodd - 10-27-2014 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Too many great places in Ensenada to list

Quote:

I totally agree about Ensenada. But I don't consider Ensenada to be "on the road".

I should also mention Domingo's Place in Loreto.

Bajahowodd - 10-27-2014 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
There is a new restaurant here in Todos Santos. I can't even remember the name of it but I thought I would try it out. I went over and the owner and the waiters were all sitting around outside and as I walked up I told them I wanted to check out what they have.

So the waiter came over and handed me a menu which surprised me as I thought they would want me to go inside and sit down. Then the owner said he would give me free flan for dessert. I told him thank you but I really don't care for Flan. Then he said the special was some asparagus thing and I told him I don't like asparagus. Then he recommended something that I had no idea what it was and he explained that it was great and had spinach inside of it. Um, I don't like Spinach, either.

So, I asked if I could have a seat and maybe just drink a beer and make a decision. He said the beer was not cold yet.

I left and went and ate somewhere else.

Your mama should have tried harder to encourage you to eat vegetables. Seriously.

MitchMan - 10-31-2014 at 05:35 PM

motoged and mulegemichael;
what I said does not mean if you are a successful entrepreneur you MUST be a conservative. If you carefully read the passage, you will see that. What I said was that I couldn't see how a PERSON can "call" themselves a true conservative without having been a successful entrepreneur. I didn't say that if you have been a successful entrepreneur THEN you ARE a Conservative.

If you "casually" read what I wrote instead of using a strict interpretation of what I actually said, then it would be very easy to achieve all kinds of incorrect interpretations, such as: I am a conservative (absolutely, positively, unequivocally not true), being a successful entrepreneur is good, being a conservative is good, each and every successful entrepreneur is a conservative, all non-conservatives are not successful entrepreneurs, everyone should be or aught to have been an entrepreneur, the statement advocates both entrepreneurialism and conservatism (which the statement did not say).

Actually, I deliberately and carefully prefaced my statement with "I don’t think that...", which means what I said was an opinion and not a proclamation of objective fact at all, one way or the other, just an opinion.

Now, as to what my motivation was for including that statement, well, that is another thing all together. But, no one asked that question

[Edited on 11-1-2014 by MitchMan]

Skipjack Joe - 10-31-2014 at 09:17 PM

Quote:

I take this to mean that you can espouse conservative values but until you are a successful entrepeneur it's just talk.

rts551 - 11-1-2014 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

I take this to mean that you can espouse conservative values but until you are a successful entrepeneur it's just talk.

How do you fit n Mitch? you were only the cook. or were you a self-employed cook?

[Edited on 11-1-2014 by rts551]

MitchMan - 11-1-2014 at 12:07 PM

Skipjack ... you hit it pretty much right on the head.

rts551, not sure what you mean as to how I fit in?...in what, as what?

I started out as a cook, then went into bar tending, then went into restaurant management. Spent much of my twenties doing that stuff. BUT, nothing in my posts in this thread says that I a was a restaurant owner and therefore I was thereby an entrepreneur. In fact, I never said, so far in this post, that I was either a restaurant entrepreneur or simply an entrepreneur. NOW, I will say that I have been a successful entrepreneur, just not in the restaurant industry (sold my business when I was fifty and immediately retired) and that I now own income property and teach part time.

Please note, that no where in my posts in this thread have I said that I am a conservative. I am definitely not what is commonly known as a conservative. However, just like most people, there are some things that I believe and do that could be considered so-called conservative, as it is with most other people. For example, I drink water and so do all conservatives. You know, things like honesty, thriftiness, entrepreneurial endeavor, having a work ethic, being fair, believing in God, love of family, faithfulness, etc. are not the exclusive domain of conservatism, although, there are many who think that they are solely and only conservative characteristics...and they would be, have been and will always be wrong about that.

Also, those characteristics are possessed and practiced by many liberals and progressives and social democrats and in no way counters nor interferes with nor is inconsistent with nor contradicts being a liberal nor being a progressive nor being a social democrat.

[Edited on 11-1-2014 by MitchMan]

rts551 - 11-1-2014 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MitchMan
Skipjack ... you hit it pretty much right on the head.

rts551, not sure what you mean as to how I fit in?...in what, as what?

I started out as a cook, then went into bar tending, then went into restaurant management. Spent much of my twenties doing that stuff. BUT, nothing in my posts in this thread says that I a was a restaurant owner and therefore I was thereby an entrepreneur. In fact, I never said, so far in this post, that I was either a restaurant entrepreneur or simply an entrepreneur. NOW, I will say that I have been a successful entrepreneur, just not in the restaurant industry (sold my business when I was fifty and immediately retired) and that I now own income property and teach part time.

Please note, that no where in my posts in this thread have I said that I am a conservative. I am definitely not what is commonly known as a conservative. However, just like most people, there are some things that I believe and do that could be considered so-called conservative, as it is with most other people. For example, I drink water and so do all conservatives. You know, things like honesty, thriftiness, entrepreneurial endeavor, having a work ethic, being fair, believing in God, love of family, faithfulness, etc. are not the exclusive domain of conservatism, although, there are many who think that they are solely and only conservative characteristics...and they would be, have been and will always be wrong about that.

Also, those characteristics are possessed and practiced by many liberals and progressives and social democrats and in no way counters nor interferes with nor is inconsistent with nor contradicts being a liberal nor being a progressive nor being a social democrat.

[Edited on 11-1-2014 by MitchMan]

well said