BajaNomad

San Quintin quieting down?

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rdrrm8e - 5-15-2015 at 01:41 PM

This is from BD. Capt. Juan is a local in SQ and has a good rep.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/agrement-reacht-in-...

rts551 - 5-15-2015 at 01:54 PM

For the time being....It appears the government is agreeing with farmworkers but the growers have not signed anything yet. I would keep an eye on things day to day if you are planning on going there.

DianaT - 5-15-2015 at 01:54 PM

The first week in June will tell a lot. At the most recent meeting the growers agreed to a lot, but the list really reads like what was already a part of the law; even if the law was not being followed.

June is when they are supposed to decide on any wage increases, and there is some talk about possible government subsidies.

Meantime, the protesters are taking this international to try and promote the boycotts unless something good happens that first week of June.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Mexico-Farmworkers-Launch-Global-Campaign-for-Living-Wage-20150505-0025.html


DianaT - 5-15-2015 at 02:00 PM

Meanwhile IMHO, BerryMex who grows for Driscolls does not do itself any favor by posting propaganda photos like this on their website.



Those hands do not pick berries and look at that new very clean sweatshirt and hat with the scarf tied in such a stylish way. Nice try.

durrelllrobert - 5-15-2015 at 03:07 PM

MEXICO LABOR DISPUTE CLEARS HURDLE
The government agrees to pay part of the farmworkers’ wages to help meet their demands.
BY RICHARD MAROSI
Baja California farmworker leaders and the Mexican government reached a tentative agreement Thursday that would boost wages and guarantee government-required benefits to thousands of laborers, in an apparent breakthrough aimed at ending the nearly two-month-long labor dispute.
In an unprecedented move, Mexico’s federal government agreed to pay part of the workers’ wages in order to meet their demands for a minimum daily wage of 200 pesos, or about $13.
“This is an agreement that will help us construct an orderly, peaceful, respectful and responsible way to provide a better quality of life for those workers who live in the valley of San Quintin,” Baja California Gov. Francisco Vega de Lamadrid said after 18 hours of tense negotiations in Ensenada.
The deal won’t be formalized until a signing ceremony June 4 and some key negotiations remain, mainly to determine the industry and government’s share of the wage increase. Some observers remained skeptical, noting that the language of the agreement didn’t guarantee that the workers’ wage demands would be met.
Even so, farmworker leaders struck a positive note as they were greeted by thousands of cheering laborers upon their return from Ensenada to San Quintin on Thursday morning.
The announcement came after weeks of stalled talks and increasingly violent clashes between protesters and police.
In a key concession, the government agreed to ensure that every laborer in the region 200 miles south of San Diego would have access to social security benefits, which provide pensions and healthcare. Some of the region’s largest agribusinesses for years have been denying the benefits, which are required by law.
A summary of the 13-point agreement distributed by the Baja California governor’s office says that government and industry representatives will try to reach consensus on a minimum daily wage that comes “as close as possible” to workers’ demands.
Negotiations between the government and industry representatives were continuing Thursday. “To our knowledge, all parties involved have not come to a mutual resolution,” said Alfredo Arvizu, a spokesman for BerryMex, a major grower for Driscoll’s, the world’s largest berry distributor.
Erik Nicholson, national vice president of the United Farm Workers, which has sent representatives to Mexico to monitor the discussions, said he is unaware of the Mexican government ever agreeing to subsidize farmworker wages. “They have not achieved the 200-peso goal yet,” Nicholson said.
The labor standoff, which began in mid-March with laborers blocking the region’s main highway to export markets, had been growing increasingly tense in recent weeks. Dozens of protesters were injured Saturday by police firing rubber bullets in clashes that were broadcast across the country.
Baja state officials accused protesters of starting the riot by setting fires and throwing rocks at police, but many observers believe the widely circulated images of injured farmworkers, several of whom were hospitalized, helped turn public opinion against the government.
“I don’t think the government wants to give the impression that it’s a repressive force,” said farmworker leader Justino Herrera of the Alliance of National, State and Municipal Organizations for Social Justice, a coalition of indigenous groups.
“All of Mexico is behind us, supporting our movement,” Herrera said.
Threats of an international boycott of produce from the San Quintin Valley also may have been a factor forcing the government’s hand. The strike crippled exports for a time and caused losses estimated in the tens of millions of dollars.
Driscoll’s, a California company that distributes berries to major retailers across the U.S., had been targeted with boycott threats for partnering with farms accused of shortchanging worker benefits and having onerous work quotas.
The company, which has cultivated a labor-friendly image, has denied that its suppliers mistreat workers. A spokesman said the company could not comment while negotiations are ongoing.
The federal government has taken an increasingly active role in addressing working conditions at Mexico’s export farms. After The Times’ published a four-part series, “Product of Mexico,” documenting widespread labor abuses, Mexican federal officials and industry groups formed a social responsibility alliance and pledged to improve the lives of more than 1 million farmworkers.
The coastal valley of San Quintin is one of Mexico’s leading agricultural export regions, sending millions of tons of strawberries, cucumbers, tomatoes and other vegetables to the U.S. every year.
Owners of the region’s largest agribusinesses are politically powerful, with some having held high posts in the Baja California state government. They have been negotiating through their trade group, the Agricultural Council of Baja California.
A spokesman for the organization was not available for comment. richard.marosi

[url=http://eedition2.latimes.com/Olive/ODE/LATimes2/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=TEFULzIwMTUvMDUvMTU.&pageno=MTc.&entity=QXIwMTcwMQ..&am p;view=ZW50aXR5[/url]

ligui - 5-17-2015 at 06:55 AM

More ... http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/farmworkers-strike-ends-with...

irenemm - 5-17-2015 at 09:03 AM

BerryMex is one of the best employers in this area. the media does not print the true about any of this going on in this area.
BerryMex is not printing propaganda. I am sorry you all feel that the farmer workers are taken advantage of . If you live here you would and could see this is a political movement. They have and do make more than minimum wage workers. Driscoll's and Berrymex have always had all the benefits for the employees since they started here. They are going after Berrymex and Driscoll because It is the biggest and well know berry grower out there.
As for the force by the police should they just stand and let them hit them with rocks and stick. this all happened right behind my house. Was it ok for the people in Baltimore to hit the police NO. The cops here are outnumbered. These so call good people plet my house with rocks and have set fires to my field. We were and are lucky with them so far not they have not done things here right now But because we are not the the highway where the media is and can see this. They want to seen and heard.
Diane T perhaps you should ask your sister how she feels about BerryMex and Driscoll's she know them and how they work. What they do for this community.
the whole show of the meetings in Ensenada was not for the Farmer. In this area everyone lives from the farmer. Every business not one person here does not live from the work they bring to this area. As for the leaders of this movement none of them work in the fields most are drunks and thieves. This is all for the benfits of themselves not the farm worker. I have live here for 34 years I have seen this town and area go through many changes but it is being held hostage by this movement.
This will get worst on the 4th of June when the government does not give them what they want. The government can not pay the the difference. That would have to be for everyone in this country to get the same. That is taxpayers money. By the way these farm workers do not pay for water. do not pay property taxes they did not pay for that property either. Most all was given to them some but did pay. the government gave many cement floors and built them block homes. This is the cultural of the them they live this way because they choose to. How can they have expensive phone but say they don't have food. How can they big parties and but have no food.
HOW CAN THEY SELL THEIR CHILDREN AND THEY DO. THEN TELL THE LIES ABOUT WAGES. ITS THE CULTURAL
I have many employees who worked in the fields and they say it is not true what is being said. They choose to work here because it is a steady job all year. They can and did make better money in the fields because you get the piece work besides dally wages. This is all like I said political for the leftist party PRD they the padrinos of this whole thing.
I have a women who has worked for me for 28 years. She raised 3 children without the support of her ex husband she bought and paid for her property and build a home she made choice to live better then her mother. She did not have any schooling. I have another woman who worked for us until she retired she also raised her child as a single mother build her home and paid for her property. How can these women do it but the farmer worker who makes more then they did can not.
You can be a victim in life or you can change your life. This is Northa America you have choices here.
I have a girl who works for me right now she has 4 children no husband and she is building a home she worked in the fields she did not like it. We pay all our employee above what the pay scale says It is not a benefits for us as we can not deduct that from our taxes. these people choose to make a better life for them and their children. The Oaxacans can also make a better life if they so choose.
this is just my 2 cents.

JoeJustJoe - 5-17-2015 at 09:41 AM

Irenemm says BarryMex, is one of the best employers in this area, and doesn't feel the farm workers are taken advantage of!

Saying BarryMex is one of the best employers in the area is like saying, one plantation in the south before the US civil war, was better than another plantation, when slavery was still going on.

The Mexican farm workers aren't slaves, but they are being paid a "slave wage, and they are being exploited and screwed over badly by big AG.

It's beyond me how anybody could be on the side of the Driscoll, Berrymex, and the other smaller AG companies that exploit the hell out of the Mexican farm workers.




irenemm - 5-17-2015 at 09:54 AM

@JoeJustJoe
Do you drink Mexican beer, Tequila, eat tacos off the street buy fish shop at the grocery stores? If you buy anything in Mexico then everyone who works at any of these place is paid a slave wage. the farm worker make more than any of those people. Mexican wages are controlled by the government.
Do you live here? do you have a housekeeper a gardener? DO they have all the benefits the government say you must pay. These benefits are for everyone even if you pay them good gringo wages.

bajacamper - 5-17-2015 at 10:01 AM

Way to go Joe. This is a one sided story Right? Perhaps if you are right in the middle of it you might have an opinion that should at least be considered, don't you think?

JoeJustJoe - 5-17-2015 at 10:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
@JoeJustJoe
Do you drink Mexican beer, Tequila, eat tacos off the street buy fish shop at the grocery stores? If you buy anything in Mexico then everyone who works at any of these place is paid a slave wage. the farm worker make more than any of those people. Mexican wages are controlled by the government.
Do you live here? do you have a housekeeper a gardener? DO they have all the benefits the government say you must pay. These benefits are for everyone even if you pay them good gringo wages.


Yeah, I do all of those things, and the fact is most Mexicans make more than the minimum wage, although it sometimes it takes having a second job. And at least Mexicans working a regular job, and living at home, aren't forced to buy groceries at marked up prices at company stores in order to keep the farm worker like indentured slaves.

It's really shameful how big AG treats their workers, and providers them living quarters that aren't fit for animals, let alone human beings.

Its' none of my business Irenemm, but I would really be interested in how much you pay your employees who work for you.

BTW I been following this labor dispute since it started, and even before when I read the "LA Times" investigative series how the Mexican seasonal farm worker was being exploited badly. The LA Times" articles was a real eye opener.

I have also been following this on social media, where there is a lot of good information, but at the same time, I have also seen social media members having an agenda, as if they were on the payroll of Big AG, and I even heard rumors, some members were on the payroll.


bajacamper - 5-17-2015 at 08:06 PM

n/c

Pescador - 5-19-2015 at 07:21 AM

Wow, I have avoided opening this discussion because it is usually a rant about how bad the owners are that they only pay such lousy wages and provide living conditions that are substandard. Then irenemm puts down a really revealing post about things that go deeper than just the surface of the struggle. I see a great amount of frustration by the workers that will not be fixed by putting band aids on in the form of small wage increases and it is obvious that our left leaning posters think that the owners should give away the farm and everything thing will be sunshine and roses. But as irenemm points out it goes much deeper than that and the problem has its roots in lack of education, lack of financial management, nonexistent motivation for change, and on and on with the chains of poverty. So a quick adjustment by making the wages twice the amount, really does very little to change the underlying problems, but it sure is a lot easier to blame all the problems on the owners but no one seems to really understand, from a business perspective, what percentage of costs should be allocated to labor and it is an un-informed mind that suggests a company can double that amount with no adjustment made to the bottom line.

mtgoat666 - 5-19-2015 at 07:33 AM

Today's economy is little changed from 500 years ago. The facts of life are that the worlds economy relies on a vast class of low paid uneducated workers to do the simple tasks for little pay. It will never change. Capitalism requires a poverty class to provide cheap labor. Capitalism will always seek out cheap labor and thereby perpetuate conditions of poverty.
Look at the USA. In past 30 years the Kings of capitalism have continually shipped their low skill jobs to the cheapest countries. Now we gringos rely on a poverty stricken class of people in Bangladesh for our cheap clothes at Target.

DianaT - 5-19-2015 at 09:21 AM

Encouraged a couple more shoppers at Vons yesterday to buy the strawberries from Ventura County and NOT to buy the raspberries from Driscolls. When there is a good settlement, we will stop promoting the boycott.

[Edited on 5-19-2015 by DianaT]

JoeJustJoe - 5-19-2015 at 10:33 AM

I would be happy with the 200 peso agreement to start with for the farm workers, that the governor of the state, just promised the farm workers, but the employers are backing away from, saying they never agreed to this, and now everybody is wondering how the Mexican government is going to back up it's promise to the workers to increase their pay to 200 pesos a day, when many are also saying, the Mexican government lacks the legal authority to do this.

So from what I could see, the Mexican farmers are getting the short end of the stick again as usual, and they are being lied to, and most of the 12 or more point agreement the employers agreed to are already part of Mexico's labor laws or practices, that are ignored like over time pay, the use of children farm workers, sexual harassment of the female workers, and other illegal labor practices the Big AG employers were getting away with.

I don't know what left leaning poster that wants the employers to give away the farm to the farm workers, but if you ask me, paying the farm workers about 100 pesos a day, or about $6.50 is almost criminal, and is nothing short of slave labor! I see the employers are offering at best a 15% increase in pay, which but a joke, and really disrespectful towards the farm workers.

So lets start at 200 pesos pay for the Mexican farm workers, because 200 pesos or about 13 dollars, really doesn't sound like it's going to break a multiple billion dollar industry that treats it's Mexican workers like slaves.

Wow, I see some right-wing posters blaming the farm workers lack of education, and financial management, as the root cause of their plight on the Mexican farms!

I'm speechless!

It's the farm workers fault, talk about blaming the victim!

You know who else is speechless, the US corporations like Walmart, who demand cheap agriculture products, and turns a blinds eye to the abuse and slave wages on the Mexican farms. If the US corporations like Walmart, Safeway, Whole foods, and other super market chains, wanted to end this strike, and bad working conditions of the Mexican farmer, they could easily do it.



Bajaboy - 5-19-2015 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
I would be happy with the 200 peso agreement to start with for the farm workers, that the governor of the state, just promised the farm workers, but the employers are backing away from, saying they never agreed to this, and now everybody is wondering how the Mexican government is going to back up it's promise to the workers to increase their pay to 200 pesos a day, when many are also saying, the Mexican government lacks the legal authority to do this.

So from what I could see, the Mexican farmers are getting the short end of the stick again as usual, and they are being lied to, and most of the 12 or more point agreement the employers agreed to are already part of Mexico's labor laws or practices, that are ignored like over time pay, the use of children farm workers, sexual harassment of the female workers, and other illegal labor practices the Big AG employers were getting away with.

I don't know what left leaning poster that wants the employers to give away the farm to the farm workers, but if you ask me, paying the farm workers about 100 pesos a day, or about $6.50 is almost criminal, and is nothing short of slave labor! I see the employers are offering at best a 15% increase in pay, which but a joke, and really disrespectful towards the farm workers.

So lets start at 200 pesos pay for the Mexican farm workers, because 200 pesos or about 13 dollars, really doesn't sound like it's going to break a multiple billion dollar industry that treats it's Mexican workers like slaves.

Wow, I see some right-wing posters blaming the farm workers lack of education, and financial management, as the root cause of their plight on the Mexican farms!

I'm speechless!

It's the farm workers fault, talk about blaming the victim!

You know who else is speechless, the US corporations like Walmart, who demand cheap agriculture products, and turns a blinds eye to the abuse and slave wages on the Mexican farms. If the US corporations like Walmart, Safeway, Whole foods, and other super market chains, wanted to end this strike, and bad working conditions of the Mexican farmer, they could easily do it.




Okay, maybe we can blame the people who shop at Walmart, etc.

Pompano - 5-19-2015 at 10:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
,


I'm speechless!



One can only hope.....;)

chuckie - 5-19-2015 at 10:54 AM

Blame me, I bought some Driscoll Raspberries at the Grocery store in St. Francis Kansas this morning....

4x4abc - 5-19-2015 at 11:36 AM

I love those berries - $49.90 (6 oz, 170 gr) at Walmart in La Paz. Buy them a lot. Very eco, organic, healthy. If those obnoxious farm workers would only agree to work for less, then I could have those berries for less (they are a bit expensive!). How dare the farm workers ask for more money?
Why can't we go back to the good old times and sell those rebellious workers to someone else? They need to learn the lessons of capitalism.
But the Walmart owners have to feed their own children and might not be able to pass on the savings. I would understand. Times are rough.

JoeJustJoe - 5-19-2015 at 12:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Blame me, I bought some Driscoll Raspberries at the Grocery store in St. Francis Kansas this morning....


Well I can't fault you for eating raspberries. I understand that raspberries are extremely healthy for people, and even I myself, have included raspberries, blackberries, and other fruits and vegetables into my diet.

However, when I see raspberries or blackberry from Drisoll's which actually has it's headquarters in California, and is a US company, and is one of of most recognized companies that is known to exploit the Mexican farm workers.

Well, I will just refused to buy the fruit product bearing the Drisoll's name. And if the supermarket where I'm shopping doesn't have other brands of blackberries, I just won't buy any raspberries or blackberries period. I will just pick up my 12 pack of Mexican beer, and call it a shopping day.

Of course there are worse companies in Mexican exploiting and abusing the Mexican worker, than Drisoll's, but since Drisoll's is an American company, I hold them to a higher standard, because they have even more direct influence than stores like "Safeway" in the US, and because I can't miss the Drisoll brand, when I'm in the supermarket.

Now there are two reasons why I'm boycotting the Drisoll products, and other exploiters of the Mexican farm workers. The first reason is obvious, I want to support the Mexican farm workers.

The second reason, is that when employees, are on strike or just unhappy about working conditions. The farm workers, sometimes take out their frustrations on the commodities or in this case, the Drisoll's fruits. It's not uncommon for a worker to urinate or do others types ungodly acts to the employers products or raspberries in the case of Chuckie, and thereby giving a new meaning to being organic.

The workers know, that most people could care less about their plight, and this is one way of getting back at those who don't support the farm workers cause.

[Edited on 5-19-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

mcfez - 5-19-2015 at 12:40 PM



You hit it on dead on! Harvesting berries is a very tough job....back breaking......and long hours since the season is short.

We farm Boysenberries. http://thenatomasfarm.blogspot.com/2014/05/going-nutz-with-b... I just wish our shirts (and hands) stayed clean as depicted in the photo. End of the day....we have purple hands.

Drisoll been around for a hundred years......has patented berries that are known to be very large in size. Salinas CA is where their explosive growth took place ....back in the 70's. Management used to be (may still be) cold and power hungry. I know...I worked for them for a year in the 80's.

JoeJustJoe is pretty much on point about the company....that "reality mail" should be returned to it's lonely sender.

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT  
Meanwhile IMHO, BerryMex who grows for Driscolls does not do itself any favor by posting propaganda photos like this on their website.



Those hands do not pick berries and look at that new very clean sweatshirt and hat with the scarf tied in such a stylish way. Nice try.

chuckie - 5-19-2015 at 02:28 PM

Given the standards to which Driscoll is being held, maybe we should stop eating beef, as well. Ask a feedlot rider what he is being paid, and look at the conditions under which he is working. We cant fix everything, or maybe anything....some things are as they are...and will remain that way....

motoged - 5-19-2015 at 02:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Given the standards to which Driscoll is being held, maybe we should stop eating beef, as well. Ask a feedlot rider what he is being paid, and look at the conditions under which he is working. We cant fix everything, or maybe anything....some things are as they are...and will remain that way....


Chuckie,
Good point, but for different reasoning: spend some time around a feedlot and you might reconsider eating a lot of beef. Next to the kidney bean, cows are the stupidest form of protein :biggrin: ....and are part of unsustainable food production...

Meanwhile, back to the berry wars...

chuckie - 5-19-2015 at 02:39 PM

I'm around a feed lot every day....I still prefer a Rib eye to Tofu.....as to being unsustainable? Hard to define that term.....Cattle have been being raised in this country for over 200 years....

Pompano - 5-19-2015 at 02:54 PM

Spend some time on a giant wheat farm and it's huge grain bins and you might not want that slice of bread anymore. The legal limit of rat poop per million parts is rather high and not well publicized in the super markets.

This IS Kansas and those aren't capers, Toto.

P.S. Forgive me, for I am from ND, the actual big wheat state.

chuckie - 5-19-2015 at 03:59 PM

Where did that quote about capers come from?

Pompano - 5-19-2015 at 04:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Where did that quote about capers come from?


Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers during the food inspection in the restaurant....I think!

chuckie - 5-19-2015 at 04:39 PM

I thought if we had a caper expert, I'd ask about planting some....What exactly IS a caper....Other than a fumbled crime....

Pompano - 5-19-2015 at 04:46 PM

Chuckie, a caper is the edible flower bud of the caper bush, also called Flinders rose. Usually pickled and quite tasty for a tidbit.

Pescador - 5-19-2015 at 07:16 PM

Well, poor Joe is so far left as to preclude any intelligence so his solution must be correct. Just double the wages to 200 pesos a day and we will all live happily ever after. The workers will all have big houses, drive a new car to work, and generally be content with their jobs.

bajacamper - 5-19-2015 at 07:37 PM

Joe also seems unaware of the large monetary investment an agricultural company puts up front long before any profit is realized on any given crop. I know Joe's head might explode, but profit is what allows the company to hire workers.

bajabuddha - 5-19-2015 at 09:41 PM

ANY of you guys want to work for $13....... a day?

That's 200 pesos.

I'd be looking for a coyote to get me and my family across La Frontera to El Norte where I could make three times that much and send half home.

Current wages are criminal unless you're an aboriginal in Borneo. It's an international disgrace for emerging 2nd world nations, and Mexico wants to see some parity. This isn't even parity. I'm appalled some of you intelligent, FILTHY RICH by Mexican standards retirees are pooh-poohing the poverty of the area.

No wonder we have a border problem, don't you think? 200 pesos a day is NOTHING. Most of you haven't or wouldn't work for less than 200 pesos an hour for the last 30 years. Before that, yeah; I started at 25 cents an hour. I worked minimum wage for $1.75 in 1972. That was over 200 pesos a day over FORTY years ago, and I had to make at least a 60 hour work week to make ends meet, and I was single.

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by bajabuddha]

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by bajabuddha]

mtgoat666 - 5-19-2015 at 09:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Pescador  
Well, poor Joe is so far left as to preclude any intelligence so his solution must be correct. Just double the wages to 200 pesos a day and we will all live happily ever after. The workers will all have big houses, drive a new car to work, and generally be content with their jobs.


Quote: Originally posted by bajacamper  
Joe also seems unaware of the large monetary investment an agricultural company puts up front long before any profit is realized on any given crop. I know Joe's head might explode, but profit is what allows the company to hire workers.


The driscolls and other farmers seem to be living pretty high, on the backs of people making a few dollars per day for backbreaking work, eh?

I don't fault anyone for success, I do fault people that achieve success upon the backs of poverty stricken laborers living on crumbs and scraps. Don't know how some people sleep at night.

How dare those uppity peasants ask for more than $1 per hour! Ungrateful peons! Send in the goons to break their legs!

:barf:

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 5-19-2015 at 09:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
ANY of you guys want to work for $13....... a day?

That's 200 pesos.

I'd be looking for a coyote to get me and my family across La Frontera to El Norte where I could make three times that much and send half home.

Current wages are criminal unless you're an aboriginal in Borneo. It's an international disgrace for emerging 2nd world nations, and Mexico wants to see some parity. This isn't even parity. I'm appalled some of you intelligent, FILTHY RICH by Mexican standards retirees are pooh-poohing the poverty of the area.

No wonder we have a border problem, don't you think? 200 pesos a day is NOTHING. Most of you haven't or wouldn't work for less than 200 pesos an hour for the last 30 years. Before that, yeah; I started at 25 cents an hour. I worked minimum wage for $1.75 in 1972. That was over 200 pesos a day over FORTY years ago, and I had to make at least a 60 hour work week to make ends meet, and I was single.

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by bajabuddha]

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by bajabuddha]




When you view yourself as different than and separate From others, it is easy to accept that people are living in abject poverty so you can get cheap eats



I am amused when people chime in on this topic about wealth disparity and basic decency to fellow human beings, to share a few jokes, and they happen to have never worked a day in their life...

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by mtgoat666]

4x4abc - 5-19-2015 at 11:48 PM

I have been driving up and down Baja for many many years.
At one point I noticed the arrival of new farmworkers in the San Quintin area
the locals had gotten too expensive
the new workers were tiny people in funny dresses, never found out where in Mexico they had been imported from
they were given a few sticks and blue tarps to build their own shelters
most of them not visible from MEX1
most of them walked to where ever they had to go
few could afford the colectivos
but even with the slave wages they were able over time to improve their "houses"
and then they were able to afford bicycles - very popular for a few years
I bet the growers now claim that by providing work they have helped to significantly improve the lives of these poor people

all the time I had been wondering when those slave laborers would start to revolt
also have been wondering how ugly it would get
maybe the police shooting workers like in the early US labor disputes?

Stickers - 5-20-2015 at 12:05 AM

If Mexican farm workers were paid a minimum wage similar to the workers just a few hundred miles north, it would solve the illegal immigration problem. And also save billions of dollars annually wasted on extreme border security.

Geeze, how simple is that :light:

JoeJustJoe - 5-20-2015 at 12:18 AM


This is from part I of the "LA Times" Investigative four part series titled " Hardship on Mexico's farms," and it written before the strike, in San Quintin, and it covers others areas of Mexico than just Baja.
_______________________________________________

Hardship on Mexico's farms, a bounty for U.S. tables

A Times reporter and photographer find that thousands of laborers at Mexico's mega-farms endure harsh conditions and exploitation while supplying produce for American consumers.

First of four stories

The tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers arrive year-round by the ton, with peel-off stickers proclaiming "Product of Mexico."

Farm exports to the U.S. from Mexico have tripled to $7.6 billion in the last decade, enriching agribusinesses, distributors and retailers.

American consumers get all the salsa, squash and melons they can eat at affordable prices. And top U.S. brands — Wal-Mart, Whole Foods, Subway and Safeway, among many others — profit from produce they have come to depend on.

These corporations say their Mexican suppliers have committed to decent treatment and living conditions for workers.

But a Los Angeles Times investigation found that for thousands of farm laborers south of the border, the export boom is a story of exploitation and extreme hardship.

The Times found:

Many farm laborers are essentially trapped for months at a time in rat-infested camps, often without beds and sometimes without functioning toilets or a reliable water supply.

Some camp bosses illegally withhold wages to prevent workers from leaving during peak harvest periods.

Laborers often go deep in debt paying inflated prices for necessities at company stores. Some are reduced to scavenging for food when their credit is cut off. It's common for laborers to head home penniless at the end of a harvest.

Those who seek to escape their debts and miserable living conditions have to contend with guards, barbed-wire fences and sometimes threats of violence from camp supervisors.

Major U.S. companies have done little to enforce social responsibility guidelines that call for basic worker protections such as clean housing and fair pay practices.

read the rest here:

http://graphics.latimes.com/product-of-mexico-camps/

wessongroup - 5-20-2015 at 06:07 AM

Why not just follow Los Angeles ... Study Says ...

Los Angeles City Council votes for $15 minimum wage (+video)

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2015/0519/Los-Angeles-City...

chuckie - 5-20-2015 at 06:25 AM

Well, of course! What a plan! Follow Californias lead! Why didn't anyone else think of that! Let em eat capers....

irenemm - 5-20-2015 at 08:06 AM

I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.

4x4abc - 5-20-2015 at 08:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.


if you have insight - why don't you tell us?
we'd rather hear it first hand, than from a newspaper

tripledigitken - 5-20-2015 at 08:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.


if you have insight - why don't you tell us?
we'd rather hear it first hand, than from a newspaper


She did earlier in this thread.

chuckie - 5-20-2015 at 08:32 AM

Yes....She did, and well too.....

JoeJustJoe - 5-20-2015 at 08:41 AM

Instead of reading unbiased investigative reports from Mexican reporters writing for the well respected International news agency "Reuters, lets instead listen from American ex-pats like Irenemm and others who claims they know what's going down in San Quintin, Ensenada or other parts of Baja, because they hear all the chisme in their backyard, and the word is, big AG, is treating the farm workers very well, and making 100 pesos a day, is actually a pretty good wage by Mexican standards, and the farm workers are just ungrateful uppity Mexican peasants who don't know their place.

I'm sorry, and well I welcome all opinions, especially from people from ground zero, but I'm going to take what people say from ground zero, with a grain of salt, because many times, they have an agenda, or are personally involved. For example, lets say if the farm workers, were hurting business, you might side with the employers, because you're just upset with the farm workers, hurting your business or something similar. I already heard from many just upset the highway was blocked by the farm workers, and that alone, make them turn against the farm workers.

So I rather depend of investigate reports, and newspapers articles covering an event from a variety of sources, like the article below:
_________________________________

Feature - Picking strawberries in Mexico for U.S. tables leaves workers asking for more
SAN QUINTIN, MEXICO | BY EDGARD GARRIDO AND LIZBETH DIAZ

Huddled around a single flickering candle in a tiny wood and cardboard shack on scrubland in Mexico's northwest, laborer Genaro Perfecto and his family prepared to bed down for the night on a bare earth floor.

His 3-year-old daughter asked for an extra blanket to ward off the cold, but they had run out - a measure of their hard-scrabble life spent harvesting fruit bound for U.S. dining tables.

Since March, thousands of day laborers have blocked roads, staged marches and held meetings with lawmakers to protest the grind of picking strawberries, raspberries and blackberries in the Baja California peninsula for what they say is as little as $1 an hour.

Perfecto is part of a growing underclass whose frustration over pay and conditions is pressuring companies that supply U.S. markets to make improvements.

At least one company told Reuters it would reexamine its treatment of workers.

Kevin Murphy, CEO of U.S. fruit company Driscoll's, said his company was reevaluating standards in the wake of the fruit picker protests, and was going to audit living conditions.

"We're going to go back and look at them again and reevaluate them and put in some improvements," Murphy said.

read the rest:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/17/mexico-farms-wideri...




[Edited on 5-20-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

4x4abc - 5-20-2015 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.


so, irenemm, you own/run a restaurant/salon de eventos plus a hotel that only foreigners and well to do Mexicans can afford. Your own employees could not afford to eat there. How much did you say, you pay them?
Don't get me wrong, I am certain, you do well because of your and your family's hard work. But you are so rich compared to the workers that you can't relate to their lives. Can't relate to their frustrations.
I bet you are convinced that "they" could do as well as you do, if they only wanted to. If only they would give up drugs, drinking and welfare. Somehow, I have heard that before. Where was that?

Bajaboy - 5-20-2015 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.


so, irenemm, you own/run a restaurant/salon de eventos plus a hotel that only foreigners and well to do Mexicans can afford. Your own employees could not afford to eat there. How much did you say, you pay them?
Don't get me wrong, I am certain, you do well because of your and your family's hard work. But you are so rich compared to the workers that you can't relate to their lives. Can't relate to their frustrations.
I bet you are convinced that "they" could do as well as you do, if they only wanted to. If only they would give up drugs, drinking and welfare. Somehow, I have heard that before. Where was that?


David Kier maybe?

woody with a view - 5-20-2015 at 11:49 AM

does the term "unskilled laborer" have no meaning to you? it is unfortunate that most of the world is uneducated and poor, with few marketable skills other than what their own muscles can provide. been that way since the beginning of time and prolly be that way until the end.

does it suck that they make $1/hour? of course!

is there a solution? not unless the growers open up their books so we can see their outlay for labor versus other costs and profiits. anyone think that is going to happen? until then, it's all opinion, conjecture and wild a s s guesses.

I'm sure we all agree a CEO making 10,000 times the wage of the pickers is obscene. I'd be happy with 500 times!

edit: CEO

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by woody with a view]

gnukid - 5-20-2015 at 11:56 AM

There does appear to be an inherent sentiment in some places that those who have worked hard to build wealth should simply give it to those who have not worked to build wealth. The sentiment justifies theft, corruption, and failure to invest in the long term for many. Not sure where this programming comes from (Spain?) but it does appear to be endemic to the circumstances of Mexico.

chuckie - 5-20-2015 at 12:14 PM

I often wonder about that..It seems to be most often voiced by those who are less hard working and successful than others...Denigrate big business, agriculture, defense contractors as money grubbing polluting wasteful enterprise, while they are consuming their products, eating their food and being protected by our Military. All the while chanting "give the profits away"....I am not ashamed to say I collect Social Security (my money), a pension from an Aerospace/Defense contractor (30+years employment) and have income from farming enterprises. Am I going to give it away? Hell no....I earned it and am gonna continue to enjoy it. I feel for the Mexican farm workers but a bunch of overfed gringos trying to change that is a fart in a hurricane. Mexican business to be dealt with by Mexicans.....

BajaLuna - 5-20-2015 at 05:10 PM

But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that, seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!

Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.

So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?

So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where they came from!

Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!

DianaT - 5-20-2015 at 05:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaLuna  
But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that, seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!

Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.

So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?

So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where they came from!

Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!


Very well said! Yes, many of us liberals are real capitalists and have worked hard and invested wisely. And when things were tough, we didn't whine and blame others, we just went and found more work.

In our case, we had several different careers so our pensions are small and our small Social Security was reduced because on of our small pensions is a state pension. Shoot, we even have a tiny pension due us in Honduras, but that we will never collect. It is the way WE chose to live so we HAD to make wise investments in real estate, stocks, etc., and yes, we are comfortable and enjoying our retirement.

Capitalism yes, unfettered capitalism no and even Adam Smith agreed with that.

Not everyone starts on a level playing field and many need a hand up, and anyone who is willing to work, deserves a LIVING wage.






BajaLuna - 5-20-2015 at 05:32 PM

I hope the workers get everything they want and rise up until they do! Viva Baja!

I pay almost 6.00 for a basket of berries...and I know it ain't going to the workers!

get up stand up, stand up for your rights!

wessongroup - 5-20-2015 at 05:43 PM

I think a living wage depends on whether ones is giving it … or getting it :):)

BajaLuna - 5-20-2015 at 05:46 PM

some of us have few choices but to eat their food, chuckie...if ya haven't noticed lately while in the grocery store...there is only a few companies feeding us! Do your research on this! Sooo just what do you suggest we eat, get informed on what's really going on in the food corporation world and then come back and join the REAL conversation!

BajaLuna - 5-20-2015 at 05:49 PM

I agree, DianaT

chuckie - 5-20-2015 at 06:54 PM

I cant argue, and wont, with much of what you all have to say..In reading what I wrote, I don't see where I used the word Liberal or took a political position. Neither party, seems to me to do much for the workingman. The problem in San Quintin and surrounds is a Mexican problem, and will be solved by Mexicans. FACT. As to what I have, I feel I earned it, and am still earning it FACT Having been and still to some degree being a farmer rancher, I do know a lot about the food business. I can say that the big food producers pretty much screw everyone equally, from the Farmer to the packer. BUT it is what it is. As a young man, I dumped truckloads of milk into the sewers rather than accept loss prices.FACT What did that get me and the other co op members? Nada empty pockets and empty trucks. Will this ever change? I don't know....It won't be solved here.....

wessongroup - 5-20-2015 at 07:06 PM

"I can say that the big food producers pretty much screw everyone equally, from the Farmer to the packer."

Dittos :biggrin::biggrin:

4x4abc - 5-20-2015 at 11:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
does the term "unskilled laborer" have no meaning to you? it is unfortunate that most of the world is uneducated and poor, with few marketable skills other than what their own muscles can provide. been that way since the beginning of time and prolly be that way until the end.

does it suck that they make $1/hour? of course!

is there a solution? not unless the growers open up their books so we can see their outlay for labor versus other costs and profiits. anyone think that is going to happen? until then, it's all opinion, conjecture and wild a s s guesses.

I'm sure we all agree a CEO making 10,000 times the wage of the pickers is obscene. I'd be happy with 500 times!

edit: CEO

[Edited on 5-20-2015 by woody with a view]


it's all at your fingertips - found this in one second. Imagine what you can find in a few minutes. More than you ever wanted to know. http://blueberries.ces.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/e...

4x4abc - 5-20-2015 at 11:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaLuna  
But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that, seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!

Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.

So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?

So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where they came from!

Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!


how can I "like" your response?

wessongroup - 5-20-2015 at 11:50 PM

Think ya just did .... :):)

Dittos

[Edited on 5-21-2015 by wessongroup]

BajaLuna - 5-21-2015 at 12:51 AM

whose asking you, a pension earner, not a corporation, to give it away? You can blame the banksters for giving away pensions!

Correct, you didn't actually use the word "liberal" but you didn't have to! And you're right no party is doing much for the working man. Crooks!

absolutely the farmer to the packers get screwed, no argument there!

We consume their products because we have to, if ya haven't noticed, they have what's called a monopoly on the food industry.

Chuckie, just because someone has a strong voice and joins together with others and chooses to use that to voice against the status quo or fight for what they believe in...doesn't mean they are less hard working or less successful as others. You can't be serious?

We have a voice because we have a right to have a voice, it doesn't matter if that person's voice is from someone living under a bridge or someone living in trump tower...I hope we all use our voices to fight against things that don't sit right with us and fight for the rights of others to use their voices! There can never be movement in any direction... if we all stay silent with the attitude of we can't change things, "it is what it is". I'm sure your wages weren't what you wanted them to be at one time or another working for the Corporation..or your healthcare while you worked or your retirement plan etc etc...and somebody somewhere stood up for that (maybe even YOU)...imagine if they had stayed silent, and had the attitude of it is what it is, ...you may not be enjoying your comfortable life now!

God Bless the movers and shakers!












chuckie - 5-21-2015 at 01:52 AM

Pretty amazing the conclusions drawn from my statement.I learned that I am a polluter, apparently thrown into the "conservative" bucket, have a "comfortable" life, belonged to a union and never did anything to object to the status quo. Most of those assumptions are wrong, but they are also none of anyones business except mine. I don't see any "movers and shakers" in this discussion. I see a lot of rhetoric which added to a couple of bucks might buy lunch. Speaking of which, I never suggested anyone stop eating, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that we all have to buy food from food producers. I think that the Mexicans involved in this issue work way harder than I ever did, for a lot less. So? It wouldn't be difficult to find a lot of people in the US who work a lot less hard or not at all for more. Neither extreme is good. Some fool suggested in this discussion that companies like Driscoll "open their books" so "we" could do something about the situation. Who is "we", what would "we" do and how would "we" do it? Like MSGT ******* points out, your reality check is in the mail.

Pescador - 5-21-2015 at 08:10 AM

It is not so much a liberal / conservative issue as much as it is an uninformed issue. It is too easy to see the whole issue from the left side and feel justified that the land owners, especially the bigger companies, are at fault and are literally paying pennies for labor. On the other side it is easy to see that the labor force is a bunch of rag-tag trouble makers who are ill educated, probably lazy, and not very motivated.
Part of the problem happens because most assume that a person comes to the valley, goes to the companies human resources department, and applies for a job. That is not what happens at all.
A lot of the problem with poor pay, no pay, sexual harassment happens because the growers contract with labor bosses who provide pay for the workers and arrange things like transportation (remember the busses) and set schedules for who is doing what to whose fields. Since this is pretty seasonal, there are few full time employees and most of the labor force that is seen is a seasonal commodity. It is too easy to see the houses and properties of the owners and assume it is a straight line function from the company to the worker.
Some companies due function like a slave camp and the press is full of stories where people are not allowed to leave, have to buy in the company store, and are held in captive slavery conditions until the harvest is completed. One such facility was found operating in Vizcaino but the government did come in and dealt with a lot of the problem in much the same way they have been dealing with the same situations in places like Oaxca.
This is a very complex issue and it is nothing but a glossed over treatment that claims the whole fault lies with the growers and owners. There was a lot of sympathy and support for the workers in the valley but they lost a lot of that support when they begin looting and burning. There were families who wanted to work but were treated as "scabs" when they tried to go to work. There were growers who showed concern and were attending meetings and offering an increase in reimbursement, the same way that some growers figured they could wait out the demands.
When I went to college I used to spend summers picking lettuce in southern Colorado and got pretty good at making enough to get through the college year without needing to have a full time job. When Cesaer Chavez came along and started the agricultural strikes, I was involved with a lot of that movement. I got to see first hand the issue from both sides of the coin and witnessed friends who were trying to grow lettuce literally get put out of business by the strikes and saw workers who felt like the strikes were the answer to their financial woes. Again, families and friends divided and split up over the strikes on both sides of the issue, but in the final run not much was really changed.
What I would like to see, is all the people who really feel some concern for the plight of the workers, get off their collective rear ends and do something of real value. Join one of the organizations that are building homes, give some classes in things that teach people how to make a better living, sponsor some workshops in education, health care, construction, or whatever.
The problem is not really much better by not buying a basket of strawberries or whining on Bajanomads. Doubling the salary does about the same thing.

tripledigitken - 5-21-2015 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by tripledigitken  
Quote: Originally posted by DianaT  
Today my friend Penny took a picture of some of the cabinets that came from Driscolls, thanks to the Delegado Penny has involved. Very nice cabinets that now need to be filled with food and other staples There is also a picture of Jose Luis, Angela and their daughter, and a group picture of the care takers and the gentlemen. The tall man in the back is Murray, Penny's husband who just helped Jose Luis hang those cupboards.





Food donations have also come from Driscolls to the Grandpas.

One thing I have learned in my life, issues never line up as Black and White as some will have you believe.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I would bet in the San Quintin Valley the vast majority of the farm ownership is Mexican owned not USA, as some have suggested. Los Pinos comes to mind.

Ken

DianaT - 5-21-2015 at 09:33 AM

Yes Ken, the Delegado was instrumental in getting this donation from Driscolls and good for them for donating some unneeded cabinets from their remodel along with some berries and clothing. The Delegado is a very good man and he has continued supporting the home. It is all a very separate issue. It has nothing to do with the workers strike. Andrew Carnegie had strikers murdered and he was very generous with his other donations. And please, I am not saying the growers down there are shooting strikers. And yes, Mexican owned farms are huge.

Yes, there are many sides to the issue, but Jim (Pescador) I agree and disagree with your analysis based on your opinion. But many on the left or on the other side are not uninformed and ignorant as you suggest.

And as in the history of any worker's strikes, unions, etc., there will always br divided families, etc., It is never easy, especially when there is no safety net for the striking workers. And during the first strike, was it the workers who caused the violence? Not so sure, but it was unfortunate for many people and not helpful. And yes, the growers came together and agreed to start following many of the laws, but their offer of compensation increase was minuscule.

Unfortunately, there is a huge amount of bigotry against the people from Oaxaca.

Meantime, I will continue my support of different organizations that provide homes, etc., even though most of them have religious strings attached with which I don't agree. And there are a number of people who live there who ARE very active in different help organizations, and they still support the workers. Lumping people into one category never quite works.

And as you characterize it, I will continue to "whine" on any and all places on the internet where I can, and in person to people in stores, to support the boycott at least until there is a final settlement. Others of course, are free to do as they please.

But really, is your opinion and take on it superior enough for you to call others uninformed?












[Edited on 5-21-2015 by DianaT]

JoeJustJoe - 5-21-2015 at 09:55 AM

This is exactly a right vs left issue at least on "Baja Nomad" in this thread.

Most people( BN members) from the right, have no idea what's going on in the Mexican farms, or they just don't care, and automatically side with the employers, which in this case, is the multiple billion dollar agriculture industry, where abuse, and slave wages come from small farm suppliers up the chain to companies like Berrymex, Driscoll's, and then finally mega stores like Walmart, that sell the final product. The last two companies are US companies who pretend they don't know what's going but claim they don't tolerate the abuse, and will work with their suppliers to make sure Mexican farm workers are treated fairly.

So the first thing many of the people from the right do, is push right-wing, tea party solutions, regardless how much they know about this issue, because right-wing talking points, work in all industries when it involves employers and workers, and this is according to those on the right, the ultra conservatives.

So they blame the workers, for their plight in life, because they chose this livelihood. They also say, the workers didn't take the time to get educated or get trained for a better career, and the big one you'll also hear, is the workers didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps like they the American conservatives did.

Sometimes, you'll even hear racist attacks, and put downs towards the Mexican workers, because after all they are nothing more than Mexican peasants, and they are from Mexico, so what do you expect? It's Mexico!

The right-wing solutions, are almost comical, because these Mexicans farm workers, aren't inner city minorities from the barrios in America, where it's at least plausible to get a semi good education, get financial aid, and go on to college, and a good career, while spending decades paying back those college loans.

These are very poor Mexicans from southern Mexico where there is almost no hope to move up in class, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and working on Mexican farms, is probably one of the few jobs they can find. And these Mexican workers, work hard, most people can't do backbreaking work like this. I personally respect the hell out of farm workers, and how hard they work. I could never do that type of work, not even when I was younger.

Just because the Mexican farm workers lack education or other skills, doesn't mean they deserve to be abused, and taken advantage of by brutal bosses and companies who view the Mexican workers like slaves, that they could abuse anytime they want.

But then the people from the right, with their harden heart, and I don't care attitude, will tell you a personal story, how they pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, and made it, and don't see why the Mexican can't do it too. It's like clockwork these stories.( this is where I usually roll my eyes)

I should throw it a JoeJustJoe work story, when I worked at physical jobs at a multinational company when I was going to college, and the US employer, applied a carrot and stick approach, to get us to work harder and faster, but somehow I never reached the carrot, but got hit with the stick often.

But I don't like to tell personal stories, or hear personal stories, because I don't believe 90 percent of them, but I mention it, because the farm employers, are also using the "carrot and stick approach, claiming the farm workers can earn up to $ 9 dollars a hour, if they work really hard. No human, could work that hard, and that's just PR work to show it's possible for the workers could make more money if they work really hard. The fact is the average pay of the worker, is probably about $1 dollar a hour, if they are lucky.

Another thing you often see from the right, and sadly sometimes from the left, is these type of strikes, sometimes get violent, either from outside agitators, sometimes from the employers trying to make the strikers look bad, but sometimes it's from the workers too, with an, " I'm not going to take this any longer attitude," and so a small minority of the workers get violent or try to destroy property.

And when any type of violence happens, or the protesters block highways, the people from the right, the ultra conservatives, with a few left leaning liberals, will jump all over that, and claim, "Oh the protesters got violent, they burned buildings, they blocked highways, so I'm not going to support them, and whatever support they had, they lost it now."Of course the ones from the right, never supported the farm workers in the first place, and the liberals from the left, aren't looking at the big picture.

The way I look at this, is in the US in the early 1900's to about the mid 50's also got violent, when US workers faced similar working conditions.

You also have the fact that the Mexican farm workers, face brutal work conditions, and living conditions, the Mexican farm workers are treated like slaves, they earn a slave wage, and the women are sexually harassed and raped!

So if a few Mexican farm workers, get violent, I'm not going to turn my back on them. This is pretty much the history of labor fights, and everything is stacked against the Mexican farm worker, because the big AG companies grease the palms of the Mexican politicians, who in turn get the police to crack down on the farm workers, and pretty much force them back to work.

24baja - 5-21-2015 at 10:08 AM

I have nothing to add to the Political side of things on this thread but I can tell you that we drove thru to BOLA on Monday and the trip down was great. no protesters or other problems, diesel and gas both available. Bad pothole in the arroyo just to the north of Catavina.

Bajaboy - 5-21-2015 at 11:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
This is exactly a right vs left issue at least on "Baja Nomad" in this thread.

Most people( BN members) from the right, have no idea what's going on in the Mexican farms, or they just don't care, and automatically side with the employers, which in this case, is the multiple billion dollar agriculture industry, where abuse, and slave wages come from small farm suppliers up the chain to companies like Berrymex, Driscoll's, and then finally mega stores like Walmart, that sell the final product. The last two companies are US companies who pretend they don't know what's going but claim they don't tolerate the abuse, and will work with their suppliers to make sure Mexican farm workers are treated fairly.

So the first thing many of the people from the right do, is push right-wing, tea party solutions, regardless how much they know about this issue, because right-wing talking points, work in all industries when it involves employers and workers, and this is according to those on the right, the ultra conservatives.

So they blame the workers, for their plight in life, because they chose this livelihood. They also say, the workers didn't take the time to get educated or get trained for a better career, and the big one you'll also hear, is the workers didn't pull themselves up by the bootstraps like they the American conservatives did.

Sometimes, you'll even hear racist attacks, and put downs towards the Mexican workers, because after all they are nothing more than Mexican peasants, and they are from Mexico, so what do you expect? It's Mexico!

The right-wing solutions, are almost comical, because these Mexicans farm workers, aren't inner city minorities from the barrios in America, where it's at least plausible to get a semi good education, get financial aid, and go on to college, and a good career, while spending decades paying back those college loans.

These are very poor Mexicans from southern Mexico where there is almost no hope to move up in class, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and working on Mexican farms, is probably one of the few jobs they can find. And these Mexican workers, work hard, most people can't do backbreaking work like this. I personally respect the hell out of farm workers, and how hard they work. I could never do that type of work, not even when I was younger.

Just because the Mexican farm workers lack education or other skills, doesn't mean they deserve to be abused, and taken advantage of by brutal bosses and companies who view the Mexican workers like slaves, that they could abuse anytime they want.

But then the people from the right, with their harden heart, and I don't care attitude, will tell you a personal story, how they pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, and made it, and don't see why the Mexican can't do it too. It's like clockwork these stories.( this is where I usually roll my eyes)

I should throw it a JoeJustJoe work story, when I worked at physical jobs at a multinational company when I was going to college, and the US employer, applied a carrot and stick approach, to get us to work harder and faster, but somehow I never reached the carrot, but got hit with the stick often.

But I don't like to tell personal stories, or hear personal stories, because I don't believe 90 percent of them, but I mention it, because the farm employers, are also using the "carrot and stick approach, claiming the farm workers can earn up to $ 9 dollars a hour, if they work really hard. No human, could work that hard, and that's just PR work to show it's possible for the workers could make more money if they work really hard. The fact is the average pay of the worker, is probably about $1 dollar a hour, if they are lucky.

Another thing you often see from the right, and sadly sometimes from the left, is these type of strikes, sometimes get violent, either from outside agitators, sometimes from the employers trying to make the strikers look bad, but sometimes it's from the workers too, with an, " I'm not going to take this any longer attitude," and so a small minority of the workers get violent or try to destroy property.

And when any type of violence happens, or the protesters block highways, the people from the right, the ultra conservatives, with a few left leaning liberals, will jump all over that, and claim, "Oh the protesters got violent, they burned buildings, they blocked highways, so I'm not going to support them, and whatever support they had, they lost it now."Of course the ones from the right, never supported the farm workers in the first place, and the liberals from the left, aren't looking at the big picture.

The way I look at this, is in the US in the early 1900's to about the mid 50's also got violent, when US workers faced similar working conditions.

You also have the fact that the Mexican farm workers, face brutal work conditions, and living conditions, the Mexican farm workers are treated like slaves, they earn a slave wage, and the women are sexually harassed and raped!

So if a few Mexican farm workers, get violent, I'm not going to turn my back on them. This is pretty much the history of labor fights, and everything is stacked against the Mexican farm worker, because the big AG companies grease the palms of the Mexican politicians, who in turn get the police to crack down on the farm workers, and pretty much force them back to work.


You lost me when you started name calling. Make your point but don't attack others who differ with you. I find it just as offensive when DK and others make blanket statements against liberals.

And just because you have an opinion, doesn't make you correct.

tripledigitken - 5-21-2015 at 11:09 AM

Bravo, BB.

BajaLuna - 5-21-2015 at 11:33 AM

Well said DianaT....and good on you, bringing awareness everywhere you can is a good thing, I will continue to do so in things I feel passionate about too. Awareness is what is needed! He calls it whining, I call it bringing awareness!

JoeJustJoe, surprisingly, I agree with some of what you said!

Although violence in my mind is never acceptable.

Pescador, you make some good points as well! And you're right it IS a very complex issue! And I especially like your point of being a part of the solution in helping in one's community. I am one who does more than my own fair share of community service where I live and activism as well, and sure wished I could in Mexico too and maybe I will someday!

It's always been the few who do for the many while others sit on their butt and just talk, and stay checked out to the issues going on around them. Sadly, we live in a very narcissus society, with the attitude of... if there isn't anything in it for me, then count me out. That surely isn't the way to live within a community nor is it the way to good karma either! We're all in this together...at least some of us believe in that, and those are the ones who make a difference for everyone else! Those are the movers and shakers!

yep you're right Chuckie, will any of this discussion on BN make a big enough difference, probably not...but sometimes a good debate can open other's minds, or can inspire someone, or at the very least give them something other than their limited view to ponder over...I like hearing everyone's points of view, whether I agree with them or not. Being stuck in our ways and die hard opinions, isn't always a good place to be!

24Baja, yep bad pothole there as of last week!






JoeJustJoe - 5-21-2015 at 12:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  


You lost me when you started name calling. Make your point but don't attack others who differ with you. I find it just as offensive when DK and others make blanket statements against liberals.

And just because you have an opinion, doesn't make you correct.


Really Bajaboy, you has already took a sarcastic shot at me in one of my posts in this thread when I made reference to "Walmart."

Here is what you wrote below:

"Okay, maybe we can blame the people who shop at Walmart, etc."

In fact taking a brief look at some of your past posts Bajaboy, this seems to be your MO, to make "one liners towards other members posts, followed by a smiley. I guess I didn't rate for a smiley in your one-liner shot at me. Hey, Bajaboy, I like to joke around too.

In fact what motivated me to make my post above in the first place, are the little jabs, and right-wing indifference towards the Mexican farm workers plight, from those on the right, and those that want to joke and troll in this thread. And I don't think I directed my post to any specific person or was attacking anyone.

So please Bajaboy, don't take shots, at others, and then call foul. And BTW I look forward to you calling out DK when he makes statements towards liberals, because I doubt you ever actually told him anything or any other person from the right.
________________________________________________

BajaLuna, I'm also surprised that I'm agreeing with you too! I guess if you live long enough, anything is possible. Keep up the good work.


irenemm - 5-21-2015 at 12:33 PM

Driscoll's and Berrymex also grown in Jocotepec, Jalisco. But I have heard nothing of unfair wages being paid to the workers in that area.
So I guess Driscoll's and BerryMex are only treating the workers of Baja badly.
This movement is all political by some leaders who want power.
the leaders that did not have cars when this started do now. How could that be. Deep pockets by someone.
They held most all of their meeting right here in our banquet room. In fact now they call to see if a farmer is in the restaurant. When they would eat in here it never bother them if a farmer was in eating also now it does. Why would that be. Now they order to go if they see a farmers car or truck. They don't pick it up they sent their wives. No hay huevos si no hay mucho ellos juntos.


motoged - 5-21-2015 at 01:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
..... Like MSGT ******* points out, your reality check is in the mail.


Chuckie,
I believe Sgt Bilko's cartoons and comments in this thread have nothing to do with the discussion....but, rather, is his ongoing vendetta with JJJ....and in my mind is simply trolling and threatening harassment.....

Bajaboy - 5-21-2015 at 01:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  


You lost me when you started name calling. Make your point but don't attack others who differ with you. I find it just as offensive when DK and others make blanket statements against liberals.

And just because you have an opinion, doesn't make you correct.


Really Bajaboy, you has already took a sarcastic shot at me in one of my posts in this thread when I made reference to "Walmart."

Here is what you wrote below:

"Okay, maybe we can blame the people who shop at Walmart, etc."

In fact taking a brief look at some of your past posts Bajaboy, this seems to be your MO, to make "one liners towards other members posts, followed by a smiley. I guess I didn't rate for a smiley in your one-liner shot at me. Hey, Bajaboy, I like to joke around too.

In fact what motivated me to make my post above in the first place, are the little jabs, and right-wing indifference towards the Mexican farm workers plight, from those on the right, and those that want to joke and troll in this thread. And I don't think I directed my post to any specific person or was attacking anyone.

So please Bajaboy, don't take shots, at others, and then call foul. And BTW I look forward to you calling out DK when he makes statements towards liberals, because I doubt you ever actually told him anything or any other person from the right.
________________________________________________

BajaLuna, I'm also surprised that I'm agreeing with you too! I guess if you live long enough, anything is possible. Keep up the good work.



I do think a major problem is our society's push for lower prices regardless of how it impacts stake holders. So yes, I do partly blame Walmart shoppers. I didn't realize you were so wound up that my comment bothered you.

As for me calling out DK or anyone else here....well you really haven't been around the campfire very long have you?!


ELINVESTIG8R - 5-21-2015 at 01:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
..... Like MSGT ******* points out, your reality check is in the mail.


Chuckie,
I believe Sgt Bilko's cartoons and comments in this thread have nothing to do with the discussion....but, rather, is his ongoing vendetta with JJJ....and in my mind is simply trolling and threatening harassment.....


In my mind Doctor Fraud came out from under his bridge to troll and harass as usual. For some posters their reality check is in the mail. Dr. Fraud Is one of those posters.

motoged - 5-21-2015 at 04:00 PM

Nomads,
FYI....
I have posted the following report to BN administrators:

"I believe David Marsden is posting personal threats towards me and request that he be directed to cease such threats and/or have such posts deleted by administrators."

We shall see how such matters are dealt with.


Quote: Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R  
Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
..... Like MSGT ******* points out, your reality check is in the mail.


Chuckie,
I believe Sgt Bilko's cartoons and comments in this thread have nothing to do with the discussion....but, rather, is his ongoing vendetta with JJJ....and in my mind is simply trolling and threatening harassment.....


In my mind Doctor Fraud came out from under his bridge to troll and harass as usual. For some posters their reality check is in the mail. Dr. Fraud Is one of those posters.

irenemm - 5-21-2015 at 04:13 PM

Well Driscoll's /BerryMex are at it again. Doing the evil they do in the community.
they had the nerve to use tractors to level property owned by the
New Beginnings Women's Outreach Association so they can begin new construction for a larger home to take in more women and children. This is the second time in a short few months they had the nerve to do these evil things by helping out the community. How darn them. Those damn slave drivers.
They should have never donated the firetruck to the community so they could put out the fires being set by the poor innocent farm workers. How darn they continue to do these things.

JoeJustJoe - 5-21-2015 at 04:15 PM

:?:
Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
Driscoll's and Berrymex also grown in Jocotepec, Jalisco. But I have heard nothing of unfair wages being paid to the workers in that area.
So I guess Driscoll's and BerryMex are only treating the workers of Baja badly.
This movement is all political by some leaders who want power.
the leaders that did not have cars when this started do now. How could that be. Deep pockets by someone.
They held most all of their meeting right here in our banquet room. In fact now they call to see if a farmer is in the restaurant. When they would eat in here it never bother them if a farmer was in eating also now it does. Why would that be. Now they order to go if they see a farmers car or truck. They don't pick it up they sent their wives. No hay huevos si no hay mucho ellos juntos.



The movement is all political? I'm not sure I understand that from the worker's perspective, although that seems to a a talking point that big AG keeps repeating. It's all political? Well, the politicians don't seem to be on the side of the workers, although they pretend to care, like the Gov on Baja who just promised the workers 200 peso a day, and it looks like he will be unable to keep that promise.

Another funny statement that I see is from the Growers representative, who claims paying higher wages will lead to economic collapse! Really, I see this repeated often, or others claiming raising the minimum wage in Mexico will lead to massive inflation. That's just crazy talk.
_________________

The talks, mediated by the Baja California government, collapsed Friday when the growers’ representative, Alberto Muñoz, walked out after reading a statement. The wages paid in San Quintin “are superior to those established nationally by authorities charged with setting them,” the statement said. Raising them any higher “would lead to economic collapse,” it said.

This is another statement that all PR, and raises red flags if you read what the growers are actually saying, or what I call, the "carrot and stick approach."
______________

Driscoll's, in a statement last week, said BerryMex workers can earn $5 to $9 an hour.
______________________

Here is the reality check:

That amount is inaccurate, farmworker leaders and several current and former BerryMex workers said. They say that under optimal conditions workers earn no more than $3 an hour, and that after peak harvest periods, pay drops to about half that amount.


One grower from the region, DeWayne Hafen, also questioned the BerryMex wage figures. Most pickers fill about 30 boxes a day during peak harvest periods, earning about $3.50 an hour, he said. The $9 figure, he said, isn't possible.

_______________________

Irenemm also said," So I guess Driscoll's and BerryMex are only treating the workers of Baja badly."

I'm surprised Irenenmm ,didn't mention the fine line or pubic statement Driscoll's has said. Driscoll has said they don't have direct operations in Baja like they do in California, but instead depend on suppliers like BerryMex to do the hiring and picking their fruit, while Driscoll remains a distributor. This way, they keep their hands clean like Walmart, and allows them to give lip service how they care about the workers, and will insist their growers put in place fair labor practices.

I'm actually shocked that the farmers can afford to eat in Irenennmm's restaurant, seeing how low they're paid.

From the article below, looks like Driscoll played this game before, and now we know why they moved their operation from California to Baja. The good thing is these companies can't keep moving to other countries to exploit, because their fruit will rot if they move to far away, and this is why the farm workers can beat big AG companies like Driscoll's if they keep up the pressure.

DRISCOLL’S NOTORIOUS TRACK RECORD ON LABOR AND THE SAKUMA BERRY BOYCOTT

Driscoll’s is no novice when it comes to fighting against farm worker campaigns for worker rights and dignity. In a 2011 dissertation titled, Places in Production: Nature, Farm Work and Farm Worker Resistance in U.S. and Mexican Strawberry Growing Regions by Marcos F. Lopez of UC Santa Cruz, Lopez documented very similar mistreatment, onerous piece rates and deplorable working conditions for Triqui and Mixteco Farm Workers in Baja California where Driscoll’s had begun production in 2004 in order to move production away from Oxnard, California where farmworkers were becoming more organized. It appears that Driscoll’s has since moved even further south into central Mexico to source its berries due to successful labor organizing in Baja California.

https://karani.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/driscolls-notorious-...

JoeJustJoe - 5-21-2015 at 04:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
Well Driscoll's /BerryMex are at it again. Doing the evil they do in the community.
they had the nerve to use tractors to level property owned by the
New Beginnings Women's Outreach Association so they can begin new construction for a larger home to take in more women and children. This is the second time in a short few months they had the nerve to do these evil things by helping out the community. How darn them. Those damn slave drivers.
They should have never donated the firetruck to the community so they could put out the fires being set by the poor innocent farm workers. How darn they continue to do these things.


Don't take your eye off the ball, Irenemm.

I call what Driscoll's /BerryMex are doing on a community level, is nothing more than just good PR work. Companies like Driscoll's /BerryMex, spend millions on PR firms to craft their messages, and tell the world how wonderful of a company they are.

US companies do this all the time, by hiring outside firms, especially with anti-union activity, that's designed to break unions from the inside, and tell everybody on the outside, just how wonderful they really are. It's a nice tax deduction, and a drop in the bucket for these two companies you're talking about, nothing more.

I'm surprised you fell for it Irenemm or perhaps you're just pushing the narrative for unknown reasons. The farm management workers do seem to hang out in your banquet room from time to time.

The fact is the cost of construction of a Women's Outreach center, and providing a firetruck, is a lot cheaper than doubling the wages up to 80 thousand farm workers.

Or perhaps it's just a coincidence they are starting these new construction activities at about the same time when farm worker are started to complain about their wages the last few months.

______________________________________
San Quintín Valley is one of Mexico’s largest export regions, employing tens of thousands of farmworkers, many of them first or second generation indigenous migrants [PDF] originally from Southern Mexico. Each year the region generates more than six billion pesos (about $410 million) worth of agricultural products. It is estimated that there are 80 thousand farmworkers in the San Quintín Valley, and yet in the municipality of Ensenada, which encompasses all of San Quintín, there are less than 24 thousand farm workers registered with the Mexican Institute of Social Security (IMSS). The most important good produced is strawberries, but only a small portion of these are consumed in Mexico. Most are exported to the U.S. market to be sold by fast food chains, or in supermarkets like Wal-Mart, Safeway, or Whole Foods. Around 84 percent of U.S. imports of fresh strawberries come from Mexico, and Baja California leads Mexico’s production and export of strawberries.



[Edited on 5-22-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

irenemm - 5-21-2015 at 05:14 PM

Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.

Do any of you live here?

Do You only know what is printed?

The truth is not always in the print

Why have the BerryMex employees of the mainland not joined into this fight of wages.

I will; be on the side of the ones who provide 1000's of jobs.
Go ahead and boycott the berries and next year many of these people will be without jobs.

You can not put people to work if you have to cut production
because of losses.

BUY DRISCOLL'S AND SAVE JOBS

DianaT - 5-21-2015 at 05:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by irenemm  
Well Driscoll's /BerryMex are at it again. Doing the evil they do in the community.
they had the nerve to use tractors to level property owned by the
New Beginnings Women's Outreach Association so they can begin new construction for a larger home to take in more women and children. This is the second time in a short few months they had the nerve to do these evil things by helping out the community. How darn them. Those damn slave drivers.
They should have never donated the firetruck to the community so they could put out the fires being set by the poor innocent farm workers. How darn they continue to do these things.


I don't think any one would argue about the donations they have made to the community at large and to different individual causes. They have done many good things in that way.

However, that really is a very different than the worker's issues. The two are just not related.

And you certainly have the right to be on the side of growers and accept their position as valid. That is your choice. You probably don't want to offend them, but that is just speculation on my part.

BTW-- while ignorant does not mean stupid, it is a bit offensive to many. Again, just your opinion and your right to your opinion.






[Edited on 5-22-2015 by DianaT]

irenemm - 5-21-2015 at 05:47 PM

they pay better than most of the ranchers here. It is a shame the true is not being heard.l
I am sure if they did not pay the employees they would not have a line of people everyday lined up applying for jobs.

I would think that the employees of Jocotepec would be on strike too and it would me on the news and in the papers. Why would they pay better in one state and be such Slave workers in another,
the truth will come out

BUY DRISCOLL'S KEEP PEOPLE WORKING

Pescador - 5-22-2015 at 06:17 AM

This morning from Talk Baja:
Los Pinos - another side to the story...
While farm workers here do earn less than 200 pesos per day on average, they do receive free housing which includes all their electrical and water and Los Pinos even provides a free tank of propane gas to newly arriving workers. Los Pinos provides free schooling to their kids and daycare that includes up to 3 meals per day. They provide free onsite health and emergency medical care as well as provide sports and recreational facilities for their employees use. What is all that worth on top of their salaries? And what will happen to their quality of life if Los Pinos simply gives in to their salary demands and ends up taking away their free housing, power, water, schooling, daycare, medical and other services in exchange? Suddenly not so black and white, is it?

mcfez - 5-22-2015 at 06:28 AM

Aside from the Off Topic comic BS overflow that got in here....

This country for years supported big AG companies. We had cheap produce. Why import it when it's cheap here back in the days.....

Thanks to a guy named Cesar Chavez.......the farm worker finally got better wages. That battle still goes on this day...but the situation for these folks in the fields (and the processing field factories) is much better 35 years after Cesar Chavez first shut down Safeway.

Support big corporation just leaves the field slave intact with no options for a better life. Supporting the farm worker will certainly NOT break the big companies......all of them survived Cesar Chavez!

A little bright insight for your are interested:
http://grist.org/industrial-agriculture/2011-04-01-bon-appet...

Why support the field slave?

Typical farmworker housing in California from 1960



gerawan_housing_bunks_425_ufw.jpg - 57kB

JoeJustJoe - 5-22-2015 at 08:43 AM

Great post Mike, and thanks for exposing the truth and pubic relations hype on that other Facebook Baja site.

Big deal proving free pubic education for the children at the Los Pinos, when Education is free by law in Mexico, up to a certain age.

I just wonder if Los Pinos, works around the children's work schedule, because in many of those Mexican farms, that children as young as 7 years old, are out there working long hours in the fields.

I saw some other things I would question over there on Facebook, for example, one well known member there posted something about the farm workers are free to buy groceries outside the companies stores if they want.

If true, I don't know how far the farm workers have to travel to buy those groceries and supplies, but the question I have, is why do the farms in company stores charge such exorbitant high prices in the first place?

According to the "LA Times" investigate series, the prices are so high in the company stores, that often the farm workers owe more money than they make at the end of the season!

I can't remember the exact prices in peso for something like a roll of toilet paper, but it was some outrageous price, something like the equivalent of us in America, or a big city in Mexico, paying $5 dollars for just one roll of toilet paper! ( perhaps I'll go look it up to get an accurate price, but it was pretty high, especially since the worker could only buy one roll instead of a four pack)



[Edited on 5-22-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeJustJoe - 5-22-2015 at 10:21 AM

Here is a good article that explains what's going on. You would think the farm workers had their own unions, but they don't. The unions, actually work across many industries in Mexico, and for the benefit for the employers, not the workers!

The only reason why the strike was semi-successful in the first place, is because AONEMJS or Alliance, a group indigenous organizers, put on the protests on behalf of the farm workers. One of the conditions the farm worker are pushing for, is they want a union that just works for their causes, not for other industries too, and certainly not for the big growers.

San Quintín Valley has grown because companies like Driscoll's doesn't like what's going in California with the high pay and benefits the Mexican farm workers make in the California farms, thanks to people like Cesar Chavez. So companies like Driscoll's simply contract with companies like Berrymex who employ thousands of Mexicans to pick their fruit at slave wages, and it only brings more money to Driscoll's bottom line. ( I'm just using Driscoll as an example, as other growers are also doing this)

The national and local Politicians share in the ownership of some of these farms, or they are investors, which pretty much insures, the foot remains on the backs of the field farm workers, in case they get out of line, and demand more money. Big AG, the unions, and politicians all get together in collusion to make sure wages stay low in Mexico. Oh lets not forget Driscoll's and Walmart, that greatly benefit when wages are kept low.

I seriously doubt any business owner in the San Quintín Valley, would speak out against big AG in the the area, and in fact, they might even push the company line, about what wonderful companies they are.

________________________________________________________

IMPORTANT STRIKE IN MEXICO; FARM WORKERS PARALYZE BAJA FARMS


highlights:

The farm workers reportedly succeeded within three days in negotiating with employers and the government an agreement of the existing unions, the Confederation of Mexican Workers (CTM) and the Regional Confederation of Workers of Mexico (CROM), both corrupt organizations affiliated with the ruling Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) that had colluded with employers to keep wages low. The agreement reached on March 20 will give the workers the right to create their own union and negotiate directly with the owners. If this agreement holds, it represents a tremendous achievement for these workers and establishes a precedent for other workers throughout Mexico who would like to get rid of their corrupt government- or employer- controlled unions. The strike and negotiations over wages and other issues continue.
____

While there is peace in the valley at the moment, the Mexican government has for decades deployed the army and police against miners, electrical workers, telephone workers, and any others, and it is altogether possible that they will send in large forces to break this strike. The ability of these workers to hold their ground will depend upon solidarity from other workers in northern Mexico particularly in Baja California and Sonora.
---------

Indigenous Organizers

The strike was organized by the Alliance of National, State, and Municipal Organizations for Social Justice (AONEMJS or Alliance) made up of indigenous groups from Chiapas, Oaxaca, Guerrero, and other areas whose members work in the San Quintín Valley. The Alliance combined a call for a general strike in the valley’s fields with the blocking of the Trans-Peninsular Highway that leads north to San Diego, California. Creating roadblocks and burning tires along a stretch of some 120 kilometers of the highway, they succeeded for 26 hours in stopping the delivery of the ripe produce to markets in the United States, with immediate repercussions for grocery stores and restaurants. Costco, for example, reported that its shipments were down. Strikes also seized government buildings and a police station.

The Mexican government sent hundreds of federal police and soldiers to open the highway, which they did using tear gas and rubber bullets as well as clubs and curses. Strikers responded by throwing stones at the police. Reportedly 200 were arrested. Baja California Governor Francisco Vega de Lamadrid traveled to San Quintín to begin negotiations with the employers and with the Alliance.
_________

San Quintín – The Cornucopia

The San Quintín Valley has over the past couple of decades been transformed into one of the most productive agricultural regions of Mexico where large scale irrigation systems, modern buildings, and large scale truck transportation have been combined by employers with low wage indigenous workers to produce an abundance of fruit and vegetable for American consumers—hundreds of thousands of tons of berries, tomatoes, and vegetables each year—and to make fortunes for the transnational and Mexican companies that own and manage the farms.

Many Baja California and Mexican government officials are actually owners or investors in the twelve largest farms as well as in some of the smaller one. Former Mexican President Felipe Calderón, for example, is an investor in one of the companies. The near fusion between corporate executives and the Baja California government has made it difficult for workers to achieve even the minimal wages, benefits and conditions to which they are entitled under the law. Last December The Los Angeles Times published a series of articles and produced video revealing workers’ onerous conditions in San Quintin in December. As a result of those articles, Wal-Mart and the Mexican government announced joint program to improve farm workers lives, but apparently the workers thought they should take matters into their own hands.
___________

Under employer contracts with the CTM and the CROM first negotiated in 1994, most workers are paid only 100 pesos or US$6.64 dollars per day. Wage rates have not improved for years. One of the causes of the strike appears to have been the falling value of the peso vis-à-vis the dollar, while at the same time many basic necessities are rising in price. The negotiators are discussing other demand such as Sundays and holidays either off, overtime pay, seniority, and other benefits. The Alliance demands include:

1. Revocation of the agreement signed by the Confederation of Mexican Workers (CTM) and the Regional Confederation of Mexican Workers (CROM) with the Agricultural Association of Baja California, especially regarding “agreed upon wages.”

2. Respect for seniority.

3. Affiliation with the Mexican Institute of Social Security (IMSS) from the first day of work at a company and medical coverage for both the worker and his or her dependents.

4. Payment to workers of all benefits due under the law.

5. After eight hours of work, double pay for each addtional hour and tripe pay after more than 10 hours.

6. Maternity leave for six weeks during pregnancy and for another six weeks after birth for pregnant workers.

7. Five days of paid paternity leave for men.

8. Measure against sexual assault by “foremen” or “engineers.”

9. Measures against reprisals toward workers involved in protest.

10. Payment of all benefits of the law to workers (one day of rest per week, holidays, and other benefits).

11. Establishment of a state minimum wage for agricultural workers of 300 pesos per day.

12. An increase of pay to 30 pesos for each box of strawberries (since 2001 workers are being paid 10 or 12 pesos per box). Double pay on Sundays and holidays.

13. An increase to 17 pesos for bushels of blackberries, double on Sunday.

14. An increase to 8 pesos for a bucket of tomatoes.

read the whole article here:

http://newpol.org/content/important-strike-mexico-farm-worke...

woody with a view - 5-22-2015 at 10:40 AM

$5 for one roll of wipe 'em? c'mon....

Bajaboy - 5-22-2015 at 10:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
$5 for one roll of wipe 'em? c'mon....


Maybe it was two ply?

Martyman - 5-22-2015 at 02:16 PM

No...We're all enjoying this. Please continue.

JoeJustJoe - 5-22-2015 at 03:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
$5 for one roll of wipe 'em? c'mon....


Maybe it was two ply?


Again Bajaboy, another trolling one-liner, against me, that's three in this thread, and you dared to try to call me out, over what I was saying in this thread.

Next time don't forget the smiley, because that's your MO, one line trolling posts, followed by a smiley.

JoeJustJoe - 5-22-2015 at 03:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mcfez  


This country for years supported big AG companies. We had cheap produce. Why import it when it's cheap here back in the days.....

Thanks to a guy named Cesar Chavez.......the farm worker finally got better wages. That battle still goes on this day...but the situation for these folks in the fields (and the processing field factories) is much better 35 years after Cesar Chavez first shut down Safeway.

Support big corporation just leaves the field slave intact with no options for a better life. Supporting the farm worker will certainly NOT break the big companies......all of them survived Cesar Chavez!

A little bright insight for your are interested:
http://grist.org/industrial-agriculture/2011-04-01-bon-appet...

Why support the field slave?

Typical farmworker housing in California from 1960



I agree with you Deno, and it's a shame we import all the fruits and vegetables, when we have farms right here in California. It might be a little bit more expensive, but nothing beats going to a local farmer, and buying fresh produce. This is what many upscale restaurants are doing in California, where they buy the freshest local ingredients. I shop this way whenever possible, but sadly, because where I live, I do most of my shopping at local big supermarkets, where organic products aren't always available.

Deno, I have already read some of the complaints against you up in the Sacramento area, and I really couldn't figure out what they were complaining about, and they didn't accused you of doing anything illegal, but rather they seemed resentful, the new kid on the block, you, were thinking of ways to make it better for everyone.

I agree with you, about the logo, and the name, of " Rio Linda Farmers Market & Peddler's Fair," yeah, the second part of the name, "Peddler's fair" has to go! What were they thinking when they came up with that name? And then you tell them, that second part of the name has to go, and they get resentful. Yeah, I guess there are politics and ruffled feathers everywhere.

Bajaboy - 5-22-2015 at 07:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
$5 for one roll of wipe 'em? c'mon....


Maybe it was two ply?


Again Bajaboy, another trolling one-liner, against me, that's three in this thread, and you dared to try to call me out, over what I was saying in this thread.

Next time don't forget the smiley, because that's your MO, one line trolling posts, followed by a smiley.


:P

wessongroup - 5-23-2015 at 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
$5 for one roll of wipe 'em? c'mon....


Maybe it was two ply?


Again Bajaboy, another trolling one-liner, against me, that's three in this thread, and you dared to try to call me out, over what I was saying in this thread.

Next time don't forget the smiley, because that's your MO, one line trolling posts, followed by a smiley.


:P


:lol::lol:

JoeJustJoe - 5-23-2015 at 10:23 PM

Great article titled," San Quintin, the valley of the labor exploitation."

In at least 20 agricultural fields in San Quentin, laborers are exploited facing no opposition from the local, state and federal authorities.

The first part of the article talks about a young girl working the fields with a heavy backpack, and pesticides with no warnings of the danger of the pesticides( poisons) nor was she provided with any with protection with the pesticides she was using in the fields.

The girls days would start at 6 am, and sometimes would last to 1 am in the morning, and that poison pesticides smell was always with her even at home.

The second half of the article is about "Los Pinos" that most of laborers say is the worse in the area in terms of abuse and exploitation of the farm workers.

The article goes on to talk about the history of "Los Pinos" and one of the owners Antonio Rodriguez, who was a secretary to local agricultural development in the previous administration, despite the many ranch violations through the years, and how Rodriguez has been linked to both the PRI and PAN political parties in Mexico.

Of course in other places like social media, I'm hearing what a wonderful company "Los Pinos," is, and how great they treat the farm workers, and their families.
________________________________________________
San Quintín, el valle de la explotación laboral


En al menos 20 campos agrícolas de San Quintín, los jornaleros son explotados ante la pasividad de la autoridad local, estatal y federal

read the rest here:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/estados/2014/san-quintin-el-va...

[Edited on 5-24-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

irenemm - 5-24-2015 at 08:12 AM

I want to apologize for the rude way I have acted on this forum. I am very ashamed of myself.
I told my 9 year grand daughter the other day about the golden rule how I learned it when I was in school. I explained it to her and I would be very ashamed if she could read what I have posted and how I have acted..
I would never tell someone that they are ignorant and I would not speak to anyone the way I have spoken here. It is very easy to hide behind a computer and say what I have said. It is not the way my parents raised me or I have raised my children.
I am not against the farm worker as everyone should receive the benefits that the government said you are to provide for them. I just felt that this was a one sided story and I wanted to tell the other side. I did not do a very good job of it.
Again I want to express my apologies for being rude.
I did not come on here for about 2 years as I did not like how many of the threads would end with rudeness and then I myself did the same thing.
I have enjoyed being on all the trips with all of you and the pictures you share.
Please stay safe and be careful but have fun
Good bye and good luck on all of your journeys .
Irene



David K - 5-24-2015 at 08:33 AM

Thank you Irene, if only we all could be as mature as you, all the time, it would be great.

greengoes - 5-24-2015 at 08:43 AM


JoeJustJoe - 5-24-2015 at 09:28 AM

It's great Irenemm is making an apology, and I don't want to appear ungrateful or as somebody that can't accept an apology, because I think her ignorant statement was pretty much directed at me, because she made that statement after my post. BTW I have been called an lot worse than ignorant, and if that statement was directed towards me, I didn't mind at all.

But I'm sorry to say, I'm not convinced Irenemm's apology is heartfelt, and just feel it possibly might be part of her agenda or public relation statement, because a few of us have figured out who she is, and what she has been doing in her free time. Even Greengoes, has caught on, with that YouTube video, that's actually a hint of one of her other identities.


What I have found out is that Irenemm, as her alter ego Rita, and been going to many newspaper sites, blogs, and social media sites( Facebook), and pushing the Big AG growers public relations message, about how well they treat the indigenous Mexican farm laborers, and she has been quite insulting towards some of the farm workers, or their supporters.

Ireremm, aka Rita, has really blasted Woooosh, the ex-BN member, over at some obscure tiny, anti-Baja Facebook site!

Ireremm, had me rolling in laughter, over that insult, and the only reason why I was laughing so hard, is as everyone knows, Woooosh isn't one of favorite persons in the world. However the insult was totally uncalled for, and I wonder why Ireremm/Rita was so worked up over Wooosh's comments.

Ireremm, says," I just felt that this was a one sided story and I wanted to tell the other side. I did not do a very good job of it."

I find that statement a little odd, because the big AG farms have deep pockets, and clearly they are paying thousands of dollars to Public Relation firms to put out a positive spin about how wonderful they are. Why does Ireremm feel she has to go EVERYWHERE and push a positive spin on behalf of the growers, while pretty much bashing the farm workers, and their supporters?

Here is one comment made by Rita made on the blog "Mexico News Daily:"
----------------------

that is not the pay they are getting . I live right in front of that ranch. they set the fence on fire and we were very concerned our dry field would catch on fire. it was very windy that day too. they get most of them 180. to 200 pesos a day plus 20 pesos a box for strawberries. the news is not telling the truth on the wages. I am not a farmer but have lived in the community for 34 years. the cops were pleted with rock and hit do you just let them go. NO hell NO
this is a community of little thugs who think and do get away with many things. I have had my house pleted by the same thugs they just want to see if they can hit it from where they stand.
do you have a housekeepr, gardener or a laundry lady? have you got them on Seguro Social? do you give them all the benefits the government say they should have? vacation, chiristmas bonus, paid holidays. houseing benefits? time and half, sunday bonus. paid day off all that and more it required to have someone work for you.


http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/farmworkers-police-face-off-...



[Edited on 5-24-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 5-24-2015 at 10:12 AM

JJJ Go back to off topic and stop making everything personal
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