BajaNomad - Carjacking - Powered by XMB

The mother chose to tell her story on TalkBaja, rather than the Baja Nomad site, because after reading the the venomous, spiteful posts by JoeJustJoe, 4x4abc, and others, she was so disgusted she took her account elsewhere.

interesting - i asked for confirmation of the location, had a doubt about the leg bone (turned out to be correct) and i asked for the numbering of the images on their iPhone (time stamp and numbering of the images don't match). That qualifies for venomous and spiteful? Wow.

What to do

mooose29 - 2-8-2016 at 12:46 AM

So I tend to believe the major aspects of the OP story. It is tragic and I hope for a speedy physical and mental recovery for the family and that none of us ever find ourselves in this situation with our families.

What I have been thinking about is what actions could be taken in this situation to protect your family if you found yourself in this situation.

For sake of this discussion please assume that the we are following Mexican law with regards to carrying "weapons" in Mexico.

I realize a lot may depend on the road location, type of car, physical abilities etc.

I usually travel with my wife and our lab,sometimes we have our 15 year old son and 18 year old daughter with us. In our old 4x4 suburban (200k+ miles) I don't believe a physical altercation with three armed men would be a winning strategy rather a means of last resort? Here are a couple of quick options

1. Try to maintain distance between the cars and the men to give yourself time to react? This sounded swift, violent, and planned out. I think maintaining momentum with the car is key, drive away backwards so the men running can't get you? Although driving in reverse is not easy and you may not be able to outrun them but maybe they get tired of running and retreat back to their truck? Giving you time to turn around and again hopefully they give up?

2. Drive around the truck if possible, will depend on the road location and condition of the shoulder or lack of one, not sure if the picture is the exact spot or not but not much room there And a car chase does not sound ideal but maybe they just give up? I believe time and distance is your friend in this situation. (They gave up because another car came upon them)

3. Wasp spray, bear spray, pepper spray, mace. I know wasp spray is ok don't think the others are to have in MX, however I would rather be alive and having to answer for my actions then have my family harmed? Also if not careful could incapacitate yourself from being able to drive away? Again I believe in most of our situations a physical altecation is the last resort when dealing with 3 armed and motivated men doing everything to keep them away from the car and you in the car is key.

4. If the attack has started then you must protect yourself by any means. Put the car in drive and go either forward or back before they can drag you out of the car. get away from the assailants or maybe you damage them or their truck in the process. Could make ID'ing them or their viecle easier later on.

5. Does not sound like robbery was the motive here but I am guessing in most cases it would be. Give them what they want ptoperty wise!! I was robbed 20 years ago at gun point I gave the robber my wallet and he ran off. It was scary but was over in seconds and no physical violence on my person. I think they were smart to try and throw the wallets and purses at them, but in this case it sounds like they were after something else.

6. While trying to drive away lay on the horn maybe it buys you a few extra seconds of distractions?

Again I don't see a lot of good options other than trying to keep distance and keep the car moving. A moving target complicates things for the bad guys and may buy you enough time???

What are some other thoughts out there?

tecatero - 2-8-2016 at 03:15 AM

what time of day did this happen,,,,,one posts said 5:00 AM, hence still dark ?? Hope the family is better

JoeJustJoe - 2-8-2016 at 03:41 AM

Another sober person calls it quits

The mother chose to tell her story on TalkBaja, rather than the Baja Nomad site, because after reading the the venomous, spiteful posts by JoeJustJoe, 4x4abc, and others, she was so disgusted she took her account elsewhere.

In the end, their actions deprived Nomad members of the first person account that everyone was interested in getting.

My original post, along with kevind's, was intended as a service to fellow travelers. Having seen the ugly nature of numerous individuals who posted on this thread, I doubt I would ever, in the future, offer this kind of information even if I felt it might be useful in a very serious way to other folks traveling down the peninsula. It is simply not worth putting up with the disgusting blowback you see in this thread.

Who quit? The mother who is posting as the alleged victim of the incident was never a "member of "Baja Nomad."

It looks like after getting pressured by me, because I kept repeating that I'm skeptical of second and third hand reports, the newbie tag-team of Michael W, and Kevind, whose last posts of "Baja Nomad" was in 2014, somehow dug up one of the victims, the mother that goes by the name of Heather *********, on Facebook.( I assume posting that name is OK because she publicly using that same name of Facebook)

BTW I still want to know how Michael W and Kevind, know each other, because Michael, admitted discussing it before hand with Kevind. And I still want to know why Kevind, didn't mention, it was him who told Kevind about the alleged incident?

If anything I should be thanked for getting Heather, and Kevind to expand on the alleged incident in Santa Rosalia. It's no surprise that Heather would choose "Talk Baja" to tell her story, because in my opinion it can at times be a highly censored Facebook group, and with three moderators, she could be assured only softball questions would be asked of her.

Of course, if Heather, and her 16 year old daughter, were indeed kidnapped, I would not ask personal questions, but I would not see anything wrong with asking her if the second hand report Kevind, repeated was 100% accurate.

We know Heather, said one part of Kevind's report was inaccurate, the part about Heather, and her daughter recognizing the men from the check point.

What jumps out at me, and the biggest obstacle that keeps me skeptical about this story, is the second hand report by Kevind, and this passage below:

Written on "Baja Nomad:

Kevind wrote: 3 men jumped from the truck and converged on the drivers side door. One man smashed the window with a hammer and reached in and opened the door. Another man began to hit the father about the head and left shoulder with a bat. As soon as the father was partially dragged from the car his leg was smashed with the hammer shattering his fibula. The man with the hammer then hit him below the left temple before smashing the left rear window grabbing the daughter by the hair and holding a knife to her throat. At this point a car pulled up behind the Hobie Cat. The 3 assailants ran back the truck jumped in and sped off eastward.
_____________________________________
This sure sounds like a brutal incident, and we know many Mexican police, and even Mexican military are corrupt, but this goes way behind a shake down attempt. There really is no extensive record in Mexico, where Americans are randomly brutally attacked like this.

We hear about thousands of Mexicans getting killed because of cartel violence, but Americans are not targets, and there are usually less than 100 Americans on average being victims of homicides in Mexico yearly. In fact in 2014 it was exactly 100, and years before that it was less than 100.

I could actually believe the father, being dragged out of the car and beaten, after the window is smashed, and the door opened. But I'm having real trouble with the daughter's story, where it says, one of the bad guys, "smashed the left rear window grabbing the daughter by the hair and holding a knife to her throat!"

If you ask me that sounds a little too sensationalized, and if the bad guy pulled the daughter out the window by the hair! If this is accurate, it sure sounds very very bad for the family, especially the daughter!

But wait, out of the middle of nowhere comes this good Samaritan driving up in his car, and without saying anything or getting out of his car, the three bad guys from hell, who it's believed were associated with the check point, jumped in their truck, and speed away.

I'm sorry, I'm having a real hard time with this part of the story, and would like some clarification.

Who was that good Samaritan?

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 2-8-2016 at 07:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mooose29

So I tend to believe the major aspects of the OP story. It is tragic and I hope for a speedy physical and mental recovery for the family and that none of us ever find ourselves in this situation with our families.

What I have been thinking about is what actions could be taken in this situation to protect your family if you found yourself in this situation.

For sake of this discussion please assume that the we are following Mexican law with regards to carrying "weapons" in Mexico.

I realize a lot may depend on the road location, type of car, physical abilities etc.

I usually travel with my wife and our lab,sometimes we have our 15 year old son and 18 year old daughter with us. In our old 4x4 suburban (200k+ miles) I don't believe a physical altercation with three armed men would be a winning strategy rather a means of last resort? Here are a couple of quick options

1. Try to maintain distance between the cars and the men to give yourself time to react? This sounded swift, violent, and planned out. I think maintaining momentum with the car is key, drive away backwards so the men running can't get you? Although driving in reverse is not easy and you may not be able to outrun them but maybe they get tired of running and retreat back to their truck? Giving you time to turn around and again hopefully they give up?

2. Drive around the truck if possible, will depend on the road location and condition of the shoulder or lack of one, not sure if the picture is the exact spot or not but not much room there And a car chase does not sound ideal but maybe they just give up? I believe time and distance is your friend in this situation. (They gave up because another car came upon them)

3. Wasp spray, bear spray, pepper spray, mace. I know wasp spray is ok don't think the others are to have in MX, however I would rather be alive and having to answer for my actions then have my family harmed? Also if not careful could incapacitate yourself from being able to drive away? Again I believe in most of our situations a physical altecation is the last resort when dealing with 3 armed and motivated men doing everything to keep them away from the car and you in the car is key.

4. If the attack has started then you must protect yourself by any means. Put the car in drive and go either forward or back before they can drag you out of the car. get away from the assailants or maybe you damage them or their truck in the process. Could make ID'ing them or their viecle easier later on.

5. Does not sound like robbery was the motive here but I am guessing in most cases it would be. Give them what they want ptoperty wise!! I was robbed 20 years ago at gun point I gave the robber my wallet and he ran off. It was scary but was over in seconds and no physical violence on my person. I think they were smart to try and throw the wallets and purses at them, but in this case it sounds like they were after something else.

6. While trying to drive away lay on the horn maybe it buys you a few extra seconds of distractions?

Again I don't see a lot of good options other than trying to keep distance and keep the car moving. A moving target complicates things for the bad guys and may buy you enough time???

What are some other thoughts out there?

You forgot another option: don't drive at night

But if you do drive at night, drive with another car or 2, or drive an armored car. There are shops in TJ that will add armor and bullet proof Windows to your suv or pick up.

4x4abc - 2-8-2016 at 09:12 AM

you are pretty safe inside your car.
Google is a wonderful tool.
Read up on evasive driving. Youtube has some videos.
Be mentally prepared. Always.
Nothing wrong with driving over those perps.
Nothing wrong with pushing their vehicle out of the way.

Convoy driving solves nothing if you drive like rabbits facing the snake.
It might make you "feel" safe - but it doesn't produce any measurable safety.

Weapons?
Yes, your brain.
Use it.

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 09:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

you are pretty safe inside your car.
Google is a wonderful tool.
Read up on evasive driving. Youtube has some videos.
Be mentally prepared. Always.
Nothing wrong with driving over those perps.
Nothing wrong with pushing their vehicle out of the way.

Convoy driving solves nothing if you drive like rabbits facing the snake.
It might make you "feel" safe - but it doesn't produce any measurable safety.

Weapons?
Yes, your brain.
Use it.

Well said ^^^^^^

gallesram - 2-8-2016 at 09:36 AM

I am thankful for this post; it caused others to post their experiences at the SI checkpoint which, as of now, will be on my radar as a potential trouble spot. Same thing happened with the cops in Constitucion; I wasn't aware of the problem but then read the posts about the crooked cops. When I finally did get pulled over there, I knew what to do thanks to the information posted here and avoided paying a mordita.

Unfortunately in the modern age of message boards people feel empowered to spew venom and accusations because they will never face their audience in person. Whether it's something as innocuous as selling a house or something as horrific as what happened here, the "new norm" is for a small group to antagonize. I, for one, just ignore those rants and scroll until the conversation picks up on the original post. This behavior isn't unique to BN; just read the "comments" under any news story and within 3 posts there will be something mean, rude, negative and generally off-topic.

For anyone interested in Baja news from people who experience it first-hand, this really is the best place to read about it. Yes, it comes with a price, but after all this is a free forum and I'd rather have the information and ignore the negativity than not have it at all.

OK, I'll go back to lurking like most people do on this forum.

BajaMama - 2-8-2016 at 09:51 AM

If this happened on the steep part of the grade, the road could easily be completely blocked by a truck, and backing up would be very difficult (personally I don't relish the idea of backing off a cliff). Horrible incident, the photos look like the clinic in Santa Rosalia (it is up on a hill and the pics indicated that with the view). The motive for such an attack is baffling. I drove through this check point twice in October and the young men were nothing other than polite. It is hard to fathom those soldiers doing something like this. But it does sound like the convoy was intentionally separated. Note to self - always wait for your convoy, even if you have to stop up the road a little bit.

Proof..........

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 10:15 AM

I have advocated this before.........

For anyone driving in Baja, or anywhere else for that matter, invest in a quality dash camera that also records audio. Cheap insurance to document "mordita" stops, inspection checkpoints and any other noteworthy events.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/g9/5-dash-cams-t...

TMW - 2-8-2016 at 11:21 AM

I bought a dash camera a couple of weeks ago at Pep Boys for like $80. I Haven't plugged it into my computer to see a large screen picture yet but the small screen on the camera looks good. They have 3 versions and I got the middle version. My use is for recording off road trails etc. It records to the small microchip. It came with a 2GB chip but I've seen 60GB chips.

Tomas Tierra - 2-8-2016 at 11:26 AM

No disrespect to the Family, everybody travels differntly, but, 5am? That would have the caravan leaving GN (or wherever?)in the wee dark hours?? passing that checkpoint 2 hours before sunup (jan2nd is a very short day)

#1 rule is, ESPECIALLY in very remote areas, don't drive during dark hours! Am I wrong?

A reverse turnaround and exit would have been close to impossible towing a Hobie Cat....

I've put myself and family (16y/o daughter) through this in my mind 100 times in the last few days, trying to come up with a plan of attack, just n case.. I'm coming up against a brick wall as to what I think I would do.. Very very tough situation..

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

I bought a dash camera a couple of weeks ago at Pep Boys for like $80. I Haven't plugged it into my computer to see a large screen picture yet but the small screen on the camera looks good. They have 3 versions and I got the middle version. My use is for recording off road trails etc. It records to the small microchip. It came with a 2GB chip but I've seen 60GB chips.

I use a 16GB card and set the recording time to 5 minutes per segment to include audio. The mount I have will let me swivel it around to record either side window.............will it stop anything from happening....no, but I will have video and audio proof of an event

4x4abc - 2-8-2016 at 01:12 PM

just to stir the pot a little"

"The municipality police say there was no report of an incident on the hwy."

chuckie - 2-8-2016 at 01:30 PM

And your survivors can watch the video cam pics....

JoeJustJoe - 2-8-2016 at 01:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

just to stir the pot a little"

"The municipality police say there was no report of an incident on the hwy."

There are a few others over at "TB Facebook" asking questions, and talking to local officials like Ralph, who said he talked to a local police captain in the same municipality, but he hasn't heard about this alleged tragic incident.

Of course if you express any doubt , or ask too many questions, other than the second hand narrative, and now supposedly a first hand narrative, you may be attacked in this thread.
_________________
From TB Facebook:

Ralph wrote: I translated the story and showed it to our police captain (since we are in the same municipality). He had not heard anything on the police chatter. He will ask for me tomorrow

SFandH - 2-8-2016 at 01:50 PM

Re: avoiding problems on the highway.

This horrible incident happened 5 am, Jan 2nd, a Saturday, and obviously the day after New Years' day. These facts, that I gathered from posts here and on Facebook, remind me of a warning a Mexican friend gave me about driving the peninsula highway. I mentioned that I like to drive it on the weekends because of less truck traffic, especially Sundays. He said that's a bad idea because a lot of weekend drivers are drunk. His opinion is that weekdays are better, from the drunk driver point of view. Like I said, he's a Mexican who lives in Baja and a smart guy. I value his opinion.

I wonder if the attackers were drunk, given the time (darkness), the day (Saturday), and it was the day after New Years.

Maybe the advice to drive only during the day should be modified to drive only during the weekday for an extra margin of safety.

BTW, a post on Facebook by the woman victim said the attackers had on the same uniforms as the guys at the checkpoint.

[Edited on 2-8-2016 by SFandH]

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 01:50 PM

Or you can replay watching the ratas get run over by your car

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

And your survivors can watch the video cam pics....

chuckie - 2-8-2016 at 01:54 PM

While making a high speed reverse towing a hobey cat!.....????

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 02:09 PM

No reverse, forward. At that point I wouldn't care about the Cat

a

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

While making a high speed reverse towing a hobey cat!.....????

norte - 2-8-2016 at 02:11 PM

Mexico is a very dangerous place.. But after reading talk baja and here....no police report...consulate knows nothing, bogus descriptin, OP decides to leave all mad... The wjhole thing wqas made up to get people excites. aND IT WORLKED. hAPPY nOMAD DAY!

JoeJustJoe - 2-8-2016 at 02:32 PM

It has happened just like I feared, not so much here on " Baja Nomad" but over at Talk Baja, Facebook, it looks like many of the members are into full panic over this alleged incident Santa Rosalia, where according to Heather, who was sleeping and in a daze, a trio of Mexican men, with a hammer, baseball bat and knives made a coordinated attack on her husband and daughter after cutting them off on the road.

But now over at "Talk Baja" most of the talk and a number of threads are concerned with personal safety, and what to do is a similar situation happened to them.

There is nothing wrong with discussing personal safety issues on the road, but some of these ideas, are way way over-the-top for average older ex-pats traveling on Baja highways.

Some people need to get a grip, Americans aren't being randomly targeted in Mexico or any other place in Mexico. Yes there is violence in Mexico, but the mass majority of violence and homicides takes place between Mexican cartel members fighting turf battles in urban cities.

I'm still waiting for official confirmation from official sources or legitimate newspapers with editors. if indeed this incident did take place, it has to be a very isolated and rare occurrence. It doesn't sound to be that Santa Rosalia, peninsula road is a hotbed of criminal and cartel activity. Of course there have been reports of harassment at this check point.

In the mean time I would tell those over at "Talk Baja" to calm down and relax.

The yahoo, Doc Holiday, who also wrote a second hand report claiming the highway incident did take place, and is obviously posting behind a fake Facebook page, is whipping up the hysteria with a few of his posts, Although I admit, I want to see Doc's," MAMBA (Multiple Attacker Maiming/Disabling Tool) stick, and perhaps get me one. But I'm sorry, most of his ideas are just comical, and really just tough guy talk.

Doc Holiday, isn't alone, with personal safety ideas. Other recommendations are traveling in a caravan, which I admit is a good idea, but it's not something everybody could do, so should they just stay home if they can't get a caravan together?

Everybody seems to recommend wasp spray, which is OK I guess if the other party doesn't have a gun, knife, or other weapon.

Then we see even far out ideas, like the "TB Facebook" member that recommends a "flame thrower! ( I'm not kidding!)

My advice is simple, don't pull over you car ever on Baja roads, unless it's a police officer pulling you over, it's unlikely somebody is going to be over to cut you off while you're driving at a high rate speed on a highway, you only see that in movies, or you read about them on Baja sites.

Pity the fool that tries to pull over Doc Holiday.

Doc Holiday wrote: ALERT: Some will have no interest in this thread.

The details related in Ron's recent post of the road attack near Sta. Rosalia are real. The attack was vicious and only ended because of the random arrival of another vehicle. I have been thinking about what I would do in a similar attack and have developed an immediate action plan. I am curious as to what others have planned out. If you are willing to share ideas please post them. Some of this exchange of info will need to take place off the public domain of f.b. thru private messages. This thread is for people who are at least willing to resort to violence to protect themselves. If you're unwilling to fight for your life please go start your own non-violence thread. Thanks.
________
More Doc Holiday ideas:

Using the recent scenario as an attack "template".
Vehicle passes me cuts me off, stops and several men emerge with bats and hammers. Fight is on.
My strongest weapon is my truck. I will drive it into the suspect vehicle and try to crush as many assailants as I can. I will hit their vehicle and try to push it out of my way. I will back up and try to put space between us and ram them again. If they jump on the vehicle trying to break windows and gain entry I will jam on the breaks to knock them loose. I'll use the truck as a weapon until it no longer moves or until they gain entry. Then it's time to get out and fight. You cannot effectively fight from inside a vehicle. Meanwhile I've already grabbed my MAMBA (Multiple Attacker Maiming/Disabling Tool) stick. This is a tool that I modified to take on multiple attacker. I will send you a pic if you PM me. This is held in one hand allowing the other hand to open doors, grab assailants and open one last beer. Now it's a street fight. Gotta practice for that. I also have a Belgian Malinois who's a bit timid for the breed but when excited knows how to bite. I am training him in car-jacking scenarios but he remains an unknown factor. My mindset in this scenario is that they are trying to kill me. And, I believe that mindset is what gives you the best chance of survival.

[Edited on 2-8-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

micah202 - 2-8-2016 at 02:39 PM

.

....yeh,,,don't drive at night. <;-/

.

motoged - 2-8-2016 at 03:35 PM

What a schmozzle this is turning into....
"Be Afraid....very very afraid" kind of reactions abound with the usual strategies of armed defense fantasies.

I stated I find the report credible.....but have also said that Rand Paul has some good ideas....

It all leaves me thinking that there may be some "hotspots" to be wary of in Baja as well as certain driving conditions to be alert to....and keep on learning from common sense and caution applied to some circumstances.

chuckie - 2-8-2016 at 03:56 PM

Harald said it....Use your brain...

windgrrl - 2-8-2016 at 04:57 PM

Hi,

Just to clear things up...I was quoting Pescador and thanking him for the information that he provided. Sorry to you, Pescador, for not quoting your complete post. I deleted my previous post to reduce any further confusion.

I am not involved in anything related to this matter other than as a reader and a person heading home on Mex 1. My only dog in this fight is a wish for safe journeys for all.

W

JoeJustJoe adds his usual vitriolic BS here. The pictures indicate where the treatment took place, where the original accident took place (which is the grade by Tres Virgenes, not the Cuesta coming down into Santa Rosalia. What Kevin is calling a clinic is the ISSTE hospital in Santa Rosalia and not the general hospital.
My preliminary communication with the Federal Police (make that Pandas for those of you who understand nothing about the various police forces in Mexico, indicate that they are aware and investigating. More importantly, is the fact that the Policia Ministerial is investigating. When it comes to thefts, assaults, and the like the local Municipal Police are of little use, but instead it is important to talk to the Ministerial, which is more of a Federal Police.
So those who find it entertaining to cast dispersion (that means spreading the bullchit like Joe and others) can put it to bed. Will post more information when it is accurate.
And thank you Kevin for not listening to the Stupidity that is so prevalent here and putting out as much information as you have. :fire:

[Edited on 2-7-2016 by Pescador]

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by windgrrl]

wessongroup - 2-8-2016 at 06:51 PM

it looks like many of the members are into full panic over this alleged incident Santa Rosalia

How about some "links" or statistics to support this kinda statement ... Or, is it just an opinion that doesn't require any factual support and should be just considered Free Speech ... lacking any factual support ... the same thing which you accuse the victim's in this incident of doing

If this statement is your opinion, so STATE

Which would be reasonable to expect IMHO :biggrin:

One thing for sure ... It didn't happen in Bend, OR ... or are you stating it did ... :lol:

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by wessongroup]

joerover - 2-8-2016 at 07:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gallesram

I am thankful for this post; it caused others to post their experiences at the SI checkpoint which, as of now, will be on my radar as a potential trouble spot. Same thing happened with the cops in Constitucion; I wasn't aware of the problem but then read the posts about the crooked cops. When I finally did get pulled over there, I knew what to do thanks to the information posted here and avoided paying a mordita.

.

What did you do to avoid being robed by the crime police?

What ever happened to the guy that went missing a year or so ago? The one where they found his truck. The really long thread.

If the cops say they did not hear about it and the uniforms match the check point.. .. .. what does that mean. Crime cops with brain damage

Do not forget, they found 4 or more other mass graves while they were looking for the 43 students. Anyone still in jail?

You have to understand the type of brain damage caused by heroin addiction to understand why a crime like this can happen. Stop using the word cartel, replace it with the word heroin junkies

Mexico has a heroin problem that reaches all the way to the top
How do you fix the problem before you understand the problem?

no e got it

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by joerover]

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by BajaNomad]

bajaguy - 2-8-2016 at 07:24 PM

Heroin = Heroin is an opioid painkillerl. It is also used as a recreational drug for its euphoric effects.

Heroine = A woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities.

Quote: Originally posted by gallesram

Do not forget, they found 4 or more other mass graves while they were looking for the 43 students. Anyone still in jail?

You have to understand the type of brain damage caused by heroine addiction to understand why a crime like this can happen. Stop using the word cartel, replace it with the word heroine junkies

Mexico has a heroine problem that reaches all the way to the top
How do you fix the problem before you understand the problem?

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 2-8-2016 at 07:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gallesram

Chrisx,
Don't forget to lump meth heads in with the h junkies.

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by BajaNomad]

bajabuddha - 2-8-2016 at 09:31 PM

I've been addicted to HEROINE(s) for years. I'm a little too young for Fay Wray, but mine started with Jessica Lange who played King Kong's ingénue Ann Darrow in the first sequel. And her equal anti-HEROINE portrayal in 'The Postman Always Rings Twice'. Even in her twilight, her performances on the small screen are equally riveting.

Now, back to the bullchit. :smug:

mtgoat666 - 2-9-2016 at 07:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBreak

May stick to moto travel, simply because I am tired of the checkpoints and having some armed caucasion hating fool rifling through my stuff.

You may be the only person who thinks the military is being racist when they search gringos,.... And have not ever heard anyone think the military guys were hating gringos.

I have found that the military guys have always been respectful and the searches have been short. If you routinely experience inordinately long searches, perhaps it it your demeanor or appearance that prompts the long searches.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones

Howard - 2-9-2016 at 09:16 AM

Out of the dozens and dozens of Baja travel by car and RV I have never had any negative experiences at any checkpoint. When I use to travel with my Lab the even treated him with fun and respect.

I am sorry for your bad experience and may we learn from this. Maybe with any luck the perps are in a ditch somewhere.

Pescador - 2-9-2016 at 10:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama

If this happened on the steep part of the grade, the road could easily be completely blocked by a truck, and backing up would be very difficult (personally I don't relish the idea of backing off a cliff). Horrible incident, the photos look like the clinic in Santa Rosalia (it is up on a hill and the pics indicated that with the view). The motive for such an attack is baffling. I drove through this check point twice in October and the young men were nothing other than polite. It is hard to fathom those soldiers doing something like this. But it does sound like the convoy was intentionally separated. Note to self - always wait for your convoy, even if you have to stop up the road a little bit.

Please re-read my posts. The clinic was the ISSTE hospital which is above KOPPEL in Santa Rosalia, it was not the general hospital which is up by the Hotel Francis. The grade, I think is the Tres Virgenes Grade and not the Cuesta de Inferierno which is the last grade coming into Santa Rosalia.

Pescador - 2-9-2016 at 10:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

just to stir the pot a little"

"The municipality police say there was no report of an incident on the hwy."

I attack JoeJust Joe for being a little less intelligent than the rock he crawled out from under. Municipal police have almost nothing to do with any of this kind of thing. I have talked to the Federales and they relate that they are very much aware of this incident and have been monitoring that area for any further problems or incidents. They are very suspicious of people from Vizcaino.

motoged - 2-9-2016 at 12:06 PM

I think the real issue here is how are the authorities responding to the victims' reporting.

We can certainly go down the gopher hole of "who is the best armchair sleuth?".....sure hope this doesn't deteriorate into the posting around Gary's disappearance a while back.

Different perspectives......a phrase that I remind myself of occasionally:

"If things exist exactly and only like I think they do, then everyone else would perceive it that way. Since that is not the case, then things must exist differently..."

chuckie - 2-9-2016 at 01:36 PM

I think( MY opinion) is that not much will come of this from any investigation....there is said to have several instances of this, in the same area and what has happened so far? I'll believe they are serious when someone is in jail....I hope I am wrong...we shall see....

motoged - 2-9-2016 at 05:07 PM

Those '32 fords make the coolest rat-rods..... :light:

Pescador - 2-9-2016 at 05:56 PM

Yeah, this is a pretty pathetic attempt for attention for some posters who otherwise lead very drab and non-productive lives. Like it is the responsibility if JJJ that he is going to keep us from our poor mistaken little reports. I certainly hope that a caravan consisting of some of the finer members of argumentative jurisprudence decide to take a trip down the peninsula, (which I suspect many of these Komputer Kowboys have seldom, if ever, experienced, and they want to tell us this story is a complete fabrication and nothing of substance. That sure does not fit with the contacts that I have encountered from the ISSTE Hospital, Policia Federales, a new office of Tourism development for the area, and the guys who were working at the gas station on the entrance of Santa Rosalia, which is where the ambulance came and hauled the victims to the clinic.

So, the only motivation I can figure with these rather sick and misguided individuals who want to play make believe jurors, is that they are desperately trying to impress all their friends about how intelligent they are. After failing miserably, maybe those of us who would really like to know just what went on can get some understanding of what happened so that we can make corrective adjustments and avoid a repeat of a traumatic experience for those who had to go through this really negative experience.

wessongroup - 2-9-2016 at 06:19 PM

Dittos

I was good with this post ... and still am

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Hmmmm,... Could be bs yarns by a hate club member playing with his false IDs,... The story is consistent with certain whack jobs that post on a board that shall not be named...

These seem to be - from my standpoint - legit posts by legit users.

fyi

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by wessongroup]

kevind - 2-9-2016 at 09:51 PM

I received a text from Heather this afternoon saying that she was contacted today by the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana. They will now contact the appropriate agencies in Santa Rosalia regarding this investigation.

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by kevind]

micah202 - 2-9-2016 at 10:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by kevind

I received a text from Heather this afternoon saying that she was contacted today by the U.S. Consulate in Tijuana. They will now contact the appropriate agencies in Santa Rosalia regarding this investigation.

.....glad to hear something's being done with the file.

wessongroup - 2-9-2016 at 10:44 PM

Thanks for the up date ...

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by BajaNomad]

BajaBlanca - 2-10-2016 at 07:32 AM

the local police stopped by here yesterday, they had NOT heard about ut but our delegado told me he had. I still have a student in santa rosalia investigating what the police know there.

BajaGringo - 2-10-2016 at 07:42 AM

It is my understanding that the consulate is now working on this case, but privacy concerns prevent public comment. We just need to respect that and let them do their job now.

SFandH - 2-10-2016 at 08:20 AM

Thanks for the posts bajablanca and bajagringo.

I hope more information comes out.

BajaBreak - 2-10-2016 at 11:55 AM

Good to know. It seems very reasonable that they would want to heal up from their injuries before stirring things up too much. It must also be terrifying knowing they need to get their vehicles back up north, and back through the same checkpoint.

Hopefully they can get someone to drive their stuff back up across the border and fly back, if they haven't already.

norte - 2-10-2016 at 02:24 PM

I know Mexico is dangerous, but what a bunch of BS - I have a secret - crap to keep people in the dark.

As "Easy" once said....................

MrBillM - 2-10-2016 at 03:02 PM

"A man once told me that when you step out of your door in the morning, you're already in trouble. The only question is, are you on top of that trouble or not?"

Pescador - 2-10-2016 at 03:17 PM

The incident is now under investigation by the Consulate and I talked to the Policia Federal and the Ministerial and they have both been contacted by the Consulate. So there will be some investigation. My major interest was that people who travel this area have some information as a heads up for their own safety, not get into a Pi...ing match with some lightweights on the computer. So keep your eyes and ears open as you transit this area. There is an increase in cracking down on some of the cartel and that may or not be related. After consulting numerous resources, it goes beyond saying that this incident occurred. So now, Proceed With Caution.

JoeJustJoe - 2-10-2016 at 03:54 PM

The only secrecy I could see should be coming from the US Consulate, discussing private information of the victims with others, but I'm hard pressed to see why the alleged victims can't talk about their ordeal if they choose, especially if they are no longer in Mexico, and they're out of harms way of retaliation by the alleged Mexican perpetrators.

News sources from both sides of the borders routinely get a hold of information like this and report it in their local papers without consent from the victims.

As far as I can see, the US Consulate doesn't conduct investigations, and if you have been a victim of crime, they ask to see your "police report," although they do say they can assist in gathering information.

In the meantime I'm still waiting for official corroborating evidence this incident took place, because this incident raised too many red flags, especially the sudden secrecy. Maybe, the whole thread should be deleted out of unknown concerns of the alleged victims.
_________________________________
Here some information from the U.S Consulate:

Help for U.S. Citizen Victims of Crime Overseas

If you are the victim of a crime overseas:

Contact the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate:
Consular officers are available for emergency assistance 24 hours/day, 7 days/week.

Contact information for U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas can be found here or by going to our individual Country Specific Information pages.

To contact the Department of State in the U.S. call 1-888-407-4747 (from the U.S. or Canada) or (202) 501-4444 (from overseas).
Contact the local police to report the incident and get immediate help. Request a copy of the police report.
___________

Here is what they can and can't do:
We can help:

Replace a stolen passport
Contact family, friends, or employers
Obtain appropriate medical care
Address emergency needs that arise as a result of the crime
Explain the local criminal justice process
Obtain information about your case
Connect you to local and U.S.-based resources to assist victims of crime
Obtain information about any local and U.S. victim compensation programs available
Provide a list of local lawyers who speak English

We cannot:

Investigate crimes
Provide legal advice or represent you in court
Serve as official interpreters or translators
Pay legal, medical, or other fees for you

read the rest here:

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/emergencies/vi...
________________________

Here is some specific information if you decide to file a complaint:

Initial Decision: Filing a Police Report and Seeking Prosecution

If you decide to pursue a criminal prosecution, you have a choice as to which type of police report to file. The type of report you choose to file is based on the type of crime committed and what you hope to accomplish.

If you intend to pursue criminal charges, the suspect has already been caught, or an arrest is likely, you may file a complaint, or “denuncia,” with the District Attorney’s office. The filing of this complaint formally starts the investigation with the objective of charging a suspect and going forward to trial. For law enforcement to act as quickly as possible, this complaint should be filed in the judicial district where the crime took place. The process of filing a complaint may take several hours. Many police stations will not have an English-speaking officer available to assist you. Although consular personnel may assist you with informal interpretation, they cannot act as official translators. They can assist you in finding an English-speaking attorney.
If you want to trigger an investigation, but pursuit of a criminal trial is not likely, you may still file a report called a “Reporte de Hechos” with the District Attorney’s office. You may need this type of report to pursue an insurance claim or for other purposes. Filing this type of complaint usually takes several hours as well.

If you do decide to file a report or "denuncia" for a serious crime, please provide a copy to the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. Consulate in Mexico, accompanied by your address, telephone number, and email address in the event we need to communicate with you. While we are not authorized to act as your legal representative, prosecutor, or investigator, our office can help you track the progress of your case and advise you of any developments.

http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/initial-decision.html

[Edited on 2-10-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

norte - 2-10-2016 at 07:01 PM

Investigation AFTER the consulate contacts them.. Come ON! Another case of sweeping it under the rug. who is the next VICTIM?

Pescador - 2-11-2016 at 08:21 AM

As usual, jjj(does not even rate capital letters) is spewing his BS and know it all attitude. As my father used to say, "If you are so cotton Pickin' Smart how come you are so Cotton Pickin' broke".
The people who had the problem have communicated to the proper people but with the very negative attitude displayed by jjj and his compatriots it was decided that they did not need any more hassle. They were already traumatized by the incident and did not need to go through a second round of amateur CSI investigators or junior lawyers. The Federales have confirmed it did happen, they have it under investigation.

Because of various people reporting there have been lots of twists. They were passed by the king cab vehicle who passed them and then pulled sideways in the road before assaulting them. The perps were not seen at the checkpoint. It did occur at Cuesta de Infierno, which is the Santa Rosalia Grade, near the bottom. They pulled in to the first Pemex station and because of the injuries, the police were called. The Municipal Police of Santa Rosalia called the ambulance who took the patient to the ISSTE hospital in Santa Rosalia.

Pescador - 2-11-2016 at 08:27 AM

Back in the old days before we collected the current population of Keyboard Kowboys, I remember the hijacking of a 210 Cessna from the airstrip at Serinidad Hotel in Mulege. Thank goodness the reports came out so that people could be informed of what happened, but there was very little reported in the press about the incident but that was a time when things were more positive here and the news got out to the people that might find it useful. Since I live in the Santa Rosalia area, I found the information about the carjacking informative and helpful in raising my awareness of a potential problem. If you want to play junior detective that is fine, but it would be beneficial to keep your thoughts to yourselves.

JoeJustJoe - 2-11-2016 at 09:26 AM

As usual, jjj(does not even rate capital letters) is spewing his BS and know it all attitude. As my father used to say, "If you are so cotton Pickin' Smart how come you are so Cotton Pickin' broke".
The people who had the problem have communicated to the proper people but with the very negative attitude displayed by jjj and his compatriots it was decided that they did not need any more hassle. They were already traumatized by the incident and did not need to go through a second round of amateur CSI investigators or junior lawyers. The Federales have confirmed it did happen, they have it under investigation.

Because of various people reporting there have been lots of twists. They were passed by the king cab vehicle who passed them and then pulled sideways in the road before assaulting them. The perps were not seen at the checkpoint. It did occur at Cuesta de Infierno, which is the Santa Rosalia Grade, near the bottom. They pulled in to the first Pemex station and because of the injuries, the police were called. The Municipal Police of Santa Rosalia called the ambulance who took the patient to the ISSTE hospital in Santa Rosalia.

The only one who is showing a know it all attitude is you pescador. You seem to say, "trust" me I know what's going on here,"and all you "BN' members better fall in line, and accept what I'm saying, or I'll engage in name calling.

I'm sorry, pescador, I'm the kind of person who asks the 5 w's, who what where when how and why.

A few of those W's have not been answered yet, and the red flags are continuing, like the Facebook page of the alleged mother, who went over to Talk Baja, to repeat essentially a second hand report, and really didn't add much to the second hand report, except to say a few odd things.

Now suddenly all her posts were pulled, and along with her disappearing, we also find out that Doc Holiday, also disappeared from "Talk Baja!" If you recall Doc Holiday, was another second hand, eyewitness, who claimed, he knew for a fact the incident took place, because the victims, either the father, mother, or Daughter, used his doctor friend in Mexico, and the doctor related all the personal information to Doc Holiday.

I know it's a peripheral issue, but what happened to the second hard, eyewitness Doc Holiday? ( BTW Doc Holiday, hit my BS radar big time! ) Peripheral issues add up.

The way this is going, I expect pescador, and his posts to disappear soon. At least I hope so.

[Edited on 2-11-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

Lee - 2-11-2016 at 11:20 AM

If you want to play junior detective that is fine, but it would be beneficial to keep your thoughts to yourselves.

Beneficial?

Lighten up pes. Like chuck, you are very passionate and perhaps a bit emotional and over the top with your condemnation and name calling. Who put you in charge of anything around here?

I might be wrong here. I'm thinking Joe has an equal vote and opinion as you do. His posts are too long and complicated for me to follow. Maybe you should skip his posts too? Just a thought.

Gulliver - 2-11-2016 at 11:31 AM

I have been on the fence but leaning towards being a believer but now I'm getting a little confused. The second post on here said that they recognized a guy from the check point and now they didn't.

This is a big deal as my relationships with the Army and Marines down here have been excellent.

At some point some hard information will surface but so far this all something I could concoct with some effort.

Sad to say, this is the flaw in social media. It has and will do so much for us but anyone with any experience has found that it is also much infiltrated with people in their mother's basement with too much spare time on their hands.

I'm still keeping an open mind but a personal friend (mexican) here in Mulege went through the newspapers (Sudcalifirniano, Collectiva Pericu and Zeta) for the week or two after the second of January with no results. They are fairly chatty about local affairs and tend to report even auto accidents if they are sufficiently lurid (of course).

Time will tell. For now I still leave the key in my bike in town much of the time and have lost the key to my house.

But if bullets start flying in Mulege then lookout! Don't get in my way as I drive North! Of course then I have to get through L.A. Sigh.

rts551 - 2-11-2016 at 06:58 PM

rumors, rumors, rumors...now the rumor is it was a road rage thing after he ran someone off the road (wide load trailering the boat)...who knows....but you are right...nothing in the news.

wessongroup - 2-11-2016 at 08:49 PM

Yeah and TalkBaja has been shut down ...

Where are the post's that were taken down ... as a good investigator certainly you would have gotten a "screen shot' to document what you are now saying

Last post on the thread was yesterday at 5:35PM and by Doc Holiday ... who ever that is

Say, Pete .... What's your handle over on FB :lol:

I'm sure there are more than a few that would just love to "see" ya out in the open :biggrin:

I'm sticking with Doug's post .. on the matter of the posters .. until someone proves differently

Got it ... IT didn't happen unless it is on the "internet" or has an "open" investigation ... right pal

How many have been arrested in the deaths of those 43 Students ? or the ten's of thousands that have been found in unmarked grave sites .. get a clue

A good slap in the face ... is good at times to wake one up

I still wouldn't worry about it ... If in Baja .. as it isn't the "norm" for most tourists or those that live there

[Edited on 2-12-2016 by wessongroup]

Pescador - 2-11-2016 at 09:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

If you want to play junior detective that is fine, but it would be beneficial to keep your thoughts to yourselves.

Lee, you are absolutely right. I never bother to read anything that jjj posts and only got upset because he was stirring up chit that did not need to be stirred up. I was interested enough to go talk to people in the know because I live in the area of Santa Rosalia and felt it was important. If jjj, or you choose to discount my discoveries, so be it. You are the ones who will lose if you travel the area and get carjacked because you had your head so far up your .......... that you failed to change your behavior. Your choice entirely.

JoeJustJoe - 2-11-2016 at 11:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

rumors, rumors, rumors...now the rumor is it was a road rage thing after he ran someone off the road (wide load trailering the boat)...who knows....but you are right...nothing in the news.

Actually, a roid rage incident, sounds more believable than a random attack on the family by three Mexicans armed with a hammer, baseball bat, and knife.

But it's confusing with all these different first, second, and third hand accounts of the incident in Santa Rosalia.

First, Kevind's second hard account, from the alleged victim the father, said, the military check point and Mexican soldiers outside of San Ignacio, were involved with this incident, first by delaying the second caravan car, and then by running the family off the road, and then breaking the car's windows with the hammer, and dragging the family out of the car. Kevind's also said, both the mother and daughter, recognized the perpetrators and they wore military uniforms.

The mother's account, over at Facebook, did not differ than much from Kevind's second hand report from the father, except the mother said, she was sleeping in the back, and couldn't recognize the perpetrators, but she was pretty sure they were wearing military uniforms. I'm sorry, I didn't take a screen shot, but now the mother is no longer a member of "Talk Baja," and her posts deleted, and second handed eyewitness, Doc Holiday, is also no longer a member of Talk Baja, and one of his main threads were pulled. ( I'm not sure what Wesson was looking at)

And now we have pescador's, version, which would be considered a third handed version, and pescador says, and I'll quote him below:

pescador wrote: They were passed by the king cab vehicle who passed them and then pulled sideways in the road before assaulting them. The perps were not seen at the checkpoint. It did occur at Cuesta de Infierno, which is the Santa Rosalia Grade, near the bottom.
_______________________
So whose version of the event should we believe?

Well, if you listen to pescador, he seems to be implying, if you discount his version of the incident , then you run the risk of getting carjacked and you will lose.

Since two versions of this incident, doesn't actually put the blame on the Mexican soldiers outside of San Ignacio, can we take them off the suspect list. Maybe, we can get pescador, to go visit the Military check point and apologize for all these wild allegations against them, which included attempted kidnapping of an underage girl at knife point?

wessongroup - 2-12-2016 at 12:26 AM

And most can't know what YOU are "quoting" as you don't support what you say with ANYTHING ... Other than speculation and/or conjecture ... on a event which in fact happened as their is a poster over their that saw the folks at the medical aid location or very shortly after

Put "IT" up .... I'm sure Doug would work with you on this ... as would Ron or DK ... As they seem somewhat balanced in their approach to things like this, opposed to you ... and Ron has first hand experience on getting the chit beat out of him along with his wife

As for NOT happening ... This from a poster at the other site ... where one's identity is KNOWN

"We met these lovely unsuspecting folks after they arrived to La Ventana~witness to the physical aftermath, stitches, plaster cast and bruises all the while surprisingly resilient attitude~this was a heinous crime~Pray for Mexico~" ...

I left the posters name off ... for obvious reasons .... but, one can find it on Talk Baja ... and one could ask the individual questions ... directly !!

I haven't followed this ... until someone start making less than reasonable comments about the individuals involved ... And no, I do not know them ... but, can feel for them ...

It's no fun to get taken down like that ... no matter where ya are

Let alone having someone say, ya didn't get the chit beat out of you and your family rousted ... cuz, it's not in the news, on internet or under "INVESTIGATION" by the Mexican Police .... please

Leave them alone ...think they are painfully aware of what can happen ... both from the locals and some posters on some web sites

[Edited on 2-12-2016 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 2-12-2016 at 09:51 AM

Wesson, I'm going to have to pass to even attempt to answer your questions, because for one thing, I can't understand what you're saying, they're silly questions, or they're irrelevant to this topic, and it doesn't appear you''re up to speed.

Some of your questions are game type questions, like questioning the obvious, like wanting to see screen shots, you know full well have been pulled from "Talk Baja" like the alleged mother's posts she made over at "Talk Baja' but now have been pulled. Do I really need to provide screen shots of that, when probably over 1000 people, saw her posts over at "Talk Baja?" I don't play those type of games.

Another example, I said, Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted, and his main thread was pulled from Talk Baja, and you tried to tell me, "what are you talking about, he just posted there at Talk Baja yesterday.

A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you and showed you were wrong. So it makes me wonder why kind of games are you playing?

Wesson, try to speak only for yourself, not Doug, Ron, or DK, whoever that is.

JoeJustJoe - 2-12-2016 at 01:24 PM

BTW, I did contact the U.S Consulate a few days ago, and asked my own questions, and related by own concerns about this alleged incident, and other concerns that I had unrelated to this alleged incident.

The reason why I have not posted what they told me, is because I want to keep other people's posts honest, in case they try to say they are privy to what the U.S Consulate, is doing regarding this alleged case, and possible investigation. That alone, gives a hint what they told me.

Here is the first auto reply I received from them, and on the following day, they actually replied to my email:
__________

Thank you for your inquiry. We have received your e-mail and will make every effort to respond within two business days. If your e-mail requires action on the part of another entity, we will forward your inquiry to the appropriate Consulate General office or U.S. Government Agency. If you desire to speak to us by phone, please call us at 011-52-664-977-2000 and ask for the American Citizen Services Unit.

JoeJustJoe - 2-12-2016 at 04:51 PM

I love this thread so much, to see the group think on "Baja Nomad, and "Talk Baja" of just automatically believing anything written on "Baja Nomad" without question. Many here, are so quick to believe the absolutely worst about Mexicans, and take the words of strangers, as long as they are of course, both white, and American.

If this was a trial or real investigation, by attorneys, judges, or police detectives, on either side of the border, they would throw this case out so fast your heads would spin!

You have the two star witness victims, the father, and mother stories differ so much in material facts, it's not even funny. Of course, one of those stories came from a newbie from "Baja Nomad" who claims he heard first-hand from the father, and alleged victim.

The other story, comes from the mother, who went over to Talk Baja, to answer 'soft ball" questions from Ron, and she really didn't offer anything new, except to disagree on a material fact of the story involving the Mexican military's involvement, and if she recognized her perpetrators, and if he wore a military uniform.

How could the father and mother, have such far apart different answers?

The father, through Kevind, claims the Mexican Military was involved, first by stopping the other caravan car, and then having three Mexican military men in uniform, block the road and then come after the family with weapons, and he said his wife can identify the bad guys!

The mother's story was that she was sleeping in the back seat, and really couldn't identify the perpetrators, but she said they were wearing uniforms. She also added, that perhaps her and her daughter were dressed too provocatively, wearing hoodies, and loose fitting clothing, and next time she will dress down. (Who says things like that? )

This is just a couple of questions I have, I have a whole host of things that don't make sense from this story!

Of course, now the mother disappeared from Talk Baja Facebook, and all her posts are removed, and she pulled her pictures from her light Facebook page, that didn't match the male victim in the hospital picture. ( light Facebook pages with little information or photos are often fake Facebook pages)

The other second hand eyewitness, hell raiser, Doc Holiday, is gone too. ( he claims to be a second hand eyewitness)

Yes, I have many questions about his alleged incident, and I see no reason in the world, for the alleged victims to go into hiding if they are back in the states. If they fear something, then they should have kept quiet and not said anything at all, or asked their second hand reporters to pull their stories.

wessongroup - 2-12-2016 at 05:54 PM

Well for starters the individual who was beaten .. Is clearly seen ... He's not hidding behind some "Avatar" ... making statements on his experiences ... In this attack

Or are you stating that these injuries were affected by the "members" of the Caravan ? ... Yeah, now that makes a lot of sense

And where did I speak for anyone ... other than myself

Or, are you stating here and now, Doug, Ron and DK are unreasonable individuals ?

Everyone can have an opinion on a topic ... however, the speech should be based in FACT and not speculation

FACT: The guy suffered a broken bone, caused by a blunt instrument ... along with a somewhat nasty looking head wound

FACT: Someone blocked their progress with another vehicle .. in order to beat the crap out of some in the vehicle towing a Hobbie Cat

FACT: Others saw this individual in the medical aid station and took photographs

What FACTS are you operating from .. Pete :biggrin:

You allege that posts have been taken down ... prove it

You allege that this event was something else than what was posted by the individuals and/or reported by third party ... prove it

What FACTS to you have to substantiate that the event DID NOT occur as relayed by others to this board and/or Face Book ... prove it

And again ... What is your posting name on Face Book ???

And Pescador .... This is the approach used by this individual when posting on Baja Nomads ... to stir the pot by making ridiculous statements based on nothing more than his own thinking(?) on things ... Which we all can see daily if one wishes to endure the mental abuse :biggrin:

No doubt why these other folks ... got off the internet

Why subject one's self to abuse by an anonymous person .. pretty simple concept

Me I don't care ... too old to care about someone of this caliber ... making outlandish statements based on some warped view of life from the safety of anonymity

And I don't need to speak for Doug ... He already did ... speak that is

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Hmmmm,... Could be bs yarns by a hate club member playing with his false IDs,... The story is consistent with certain whack jobs that post on a board that shall not be named...

These seem to be - from my standpoint - legit posts by legit users.

fyi

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad]

JoeJustJoe - 2-12-2016 at 11:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Or are you stating that these injuries were affected by the "members" of the Caravan ? ... Yeah, now that makes a lot of sense

Wesson, I'm not going to answer any of your dumb questions, when you don't even have a basic understanding of what was alleged to happen outside of that military check point.

Wesson you then jump to conclusions and try to put words in my mouth.

Maybe it will help you if you try to concentrate on one alleged fact at a time, and actually re-read the alleged reports, and read exactly what I said, instead of jumping to conclusion about what I said.

According to one of the stories, there was a caravan of two vehicles, the alleged victim's family, car 1, and another car in the caravan, car 2. We presume they were all friends, family members, or they knew each other, but the reports never actually said, who was in car 2.

The first story we heard which was a second hand report, that said, that Mexican military allowed car 1, with the family through the check point, but the second car in the caravan, car 2, was stopped and searched for nearly 20 minutes.

The implication here is the military men at the check point deliberately held up car 2, so the trio of supposedly Mexican men with military uniforms could stop and assault the family, without interference from car 2.

So do try to pay attention Wesson, and as you could see, your question that I quoted makes no sense, because you claim, I said, " the injuries were affected by the "members" of the Caravan," when I never said such a thing.

Here is exactly what Kevind said about the military check point outside of San Ignacio:

Kevind wrote:I forgot to mention that the other vehicle in the convoy was held back and searched for nearly 20 minutes possibly creating the time gap necessary for the men in the truck to do what they did. Also, the mother and daughter threw the fathers wallet and their purses to the assailants who showed no interest in them. This was not a robbery.

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

azucena - 2-13-2016 at 08:16 AM

Since this thread no longer has any relevant information being exchanged and has disintegrated into several members in personal attack mode, might I suggest to all of you gentlemen that you begin a new thread, where you can go at each other to your hearts content, and leave this thread for updates about how the family is doing and any progress on the investigation.

Or, Maybe, just maybe, BEFORE you decide to post another vitriolic bomb, ask yourself what good it will serve.... No one is going to "win" here....

BajaNomad - 2-13-2016 at 09:59 AM

Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted... A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you...

The above info is inaccurate, and postings from the user alluded to regarding the incident and this thread on TB are still there.

It's been said: "How you do anything is how you do everything."

fwiw

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad]

BornFisher - 2-13-2016 at 10:12 AM

[/rquote]

It's been said: "How you do anything is how you do everything."

fwiw

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad][/rquote]

Mom always said "an empty wagon makes the most noise".

JoeJustJoe - 2-13-2016 at 10:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted... A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you...

Thank you.

I have asked a few times for follow up confirmation that I noticed that the alleged victim, the mother's posts were deleted from Talk Baja, along with with Ron's' exchange with her.

I have noticed that Doc Hollywood's thread about fighting back, Mad Max style, on "Talk Baja" have been pulled, and I said, Doc Hollywood's and the mother are no longer members of "Talk Baja."

I made one simple, mistake, when I put in Doc Hollywood's name, I put Doc Holiday's name instead of the search membership field.

It's also against the Facebook rules to use fake names, and it appears Doc Hollywood's Facebook page is bogus.

My other points are still valid, and again I ask for confirmation, because with so many posts at "Talk Baja" it could be missed, but I'm almost certain that thread has been pulled, and I'm almost certain the mother is no longer posting there, yet other people are claiming they are talking to a family member(s)

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

Howard - 2-13-2016 at 02:26 PM

This is worse than 2 children in a sandbox.

Please take your bickering elsewhere. You want to fight and kill each other, that would probably help the gene pool anyway but PLEASE take it somewhere else.

Just sit back and question why we have to listen to your problems with each other.

JoeJustJoe - 2-13-2016 at 03:10 PM

Here is a little bit of information I received from the U. S. consulate, when I sent them an email, asking basic information about this alleged case, and I related to them a few concerns of mine, that may have crossed the desk of the U.S consulate over the years.

Since there is no note about their email being privileged and confidential. I'm comfortable, sharing at least partially the main gist of their email to me.

The other main thing they told me, was that due to Privacy Act limitations, they can't publicly or privately discuss any inquiries of any possible case. I'm sure this extends to everyone, even those claiming special friendship with Consulate personal.

In the future, if I ever find myself a victim of a serious crime in Baja, after I received medical attention, I'm going to call the U.S Consulate, because I will probably need help to navigate all the red tape, especially if I want to do the equivalent of "press charges" in Mexico. I would also want a local police report, because the U.S. Consulate wants proof the incident took place, although they may be able to help you in that regard.

_____________________________________
From the U.S Consulate's email to me:

"The Consulate’s primary responsibilities are the safety and security of U.S. citizens in Baja California; therefore, we treat all such reports as valid until they are demonstrated to be otherwise. With all reports of violent attacks targeting U.S. citizens, once we have spoken to the alleged victim, we regularly follow-up with local law enforcement contacts to verify the facts of the report and to inquire about investigative progress. In addition, we provide guidance to the victims on filing a criminal complaint, and in seeking out victims assistance programs."

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-13-2016 at 07:35 PM

wessongroup - 2-13-2016 at 07:43 PM

Me ... I've always thought this WOULD happen to ME and/or my family ... by someone just like in these example's and what some have experienced while in Baja

Didn't drive in "fear" but, always knew there are some real crazies out there ... so expect it ...

If ya don't want to watch don't ...

But, IF you do .,.... Just what would you do differently ...

IF it happened to YOU ?

Drive Defensively ...

and, oh, an investigation is messed up in Baja ... Well how about that ... The center of Criminal Investigation Training of Mexico .. :lol:

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by wessongroup]

Higo - 2-13-2016 at 10:51 PM

Forgive me if this has been asked. But why would somebody fake this? Please don't give a pat answer like "lots of people hate Mexico". Because it's an awful lot of trouble, the fake Facebook pages, getting multiple people to corroborate with their own reputations, Facebook profiles, etc. I mean, who goes to all this trouble? If you want to "de-fame" Mexico, you can easily grab headlines of TRUE stories! I hate admitting that because I'm the type who will always defend Mexico and its people. Why bother with a fairly complex series of events and multiple people. Not to mention pictures of the road, injuries, etc.

mtgoat666 - 2-13-2016 at 11:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Higo

Forgive me if this has been asked. But why would somebody fake this? Please don't give a pat answer like "lots of people hate Mexico". Because it's an awful lot of trouble, the fake Facebook pages, getting multiple people to corroborate with their own reputations, Facebook profiles, etc. I mean, who goes to all this trouble?

Well, a few people like chuck Levitin. He goes by fulano, Jesus Juarez Torres, and a bunch of other fake names. He builds fake online personas and websites for hating on Mexico, and trashing gringo expats and gringo tourists. Weird,eh?

Pescador - 2-14-2016 at 09:03 AM

IN talking to the victims, they actually got scared of the weird stuff being posted and decided it was simply too intimidating and threatening to continue with the posts. All I wanted to do was to make sure that they were insulated against the juvenile thrashing they were getting, so I verified that there was an investigation, the event did,in fact, occur, and those people who were so inclined would have the information and take the appropriate caution when transiting the area. So those who choose not to believe the issue are certainly entitled to their beliefs and imagine what an irony it would be if one of those people actually had a similar incident.

joerover - 2-14-2016 at 12:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Howard

This is worse than 2 children in a sandbox.

Please take your bickering elsewhere. You want to fight and kill each other, that would probably help the gene pool anyway but PLEASE take it somewhere else

They are not welcome anywhere else, they have to post here.

No one is searching for the root of the problem.
Fire bomb the poppy fields
send the fish story ghost to sink the meth lab
What caused the brain damage that made them commit such a crime?
Find out and fix the root of the problem
Sounds like the night shift works for the cartel, easier to transport a truck load of drugs if your employe works at the check point.

Udo - 2-14-2016 at 12:41 PM

How is Roger doing?

JoeJustJoe - 2-14-2016 at 01:16 PM

Let me share some things I look at when trying to determine if a "trip report" is truthful or not.

And BTW I don't go around questioning all reports and I think I only challenged three reports in the main area of "Baja Nomad" since I been a member of this site.

I look to see if a report is timely, believing if something happens to somebody, they will probably report it right away, instead of waiting weeks, months, or years later to report it.

I look at the members who are reporting the alleged incident. I ask, do they have a track record on the forum, do they come off truthful, do they have respect from other forum members? I look to see if they make posts that are agenda based, and I want to know if they are promoting something, or are they just ugly Americans, that are always looking to put Mexico in a bad light.

Obviously with newbies, with no track record on a forum, I distrust them more than I do regular members, because I know nothing about them, and find it odd, they come to a forum with a fantastic story when they only been a member for a few days, although I don't discount their report out of hand, but I will scrutinized their report more carefully than a known forum or Facebook member.

With second hand reports, I basically say, nice report, but it's a second hand report, and I have no way to try to judge the validly of the report, and this is probably the reason courts treats second hand reports as 'hearsay" and usually don't allow it into evidence.

Third hand reports, forget them, because by the time you hear about it, most of the actual facts of the story will be changed, forgotten, or made up. It still might be an interesting story and have some truth to it, but a third hand report, is nothing but a third hand report, and should be treated as anecdotal evidence, or a good story.

Then I look at the report itself.

I want to know if there are things in the report that seems way over-the-top. I want to know if the report, asks you to suspend beliefs of known physical laws.

I also look for odd things in the report, and ask myself, " would a reasonable person( victim) act like that.

Hell, I even look at the behavior, at the bad guys in the report, and ask myself, would a bad guy, mugger, thief, or scam artist really do that. Even the bad guys are somewhat predictable.

These are just some of the things I look at when trying to determine if a report is truthful or not, and no, I don't have pencil and paper, checking things off, as I'm reading a incident report, but for sure, I see red flags right away, and sometimes I can't help myself, but share those feelings I have with others.

I'm also a contrarian in life, if the herd is going one way, I will go the opposite way, because herd behavior is almost always wrong.

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-14-2016 at 01:36 PM

Let me share some things I look at when trying to determine if a "trip report" is truthful or not.

And BTW I don't go around questioning all reports and I think I only challenged three reports in the main area of "Baja Nomad" since I been a member of this site.

I look to see if a report is timely, believing if something happens to somebody, they will probably report it right away, instead of waiting weeks, months, or years later to report it.

I look at the members who are reporting the alleged incident. I ask, do they have a track record on the forum, do they come off truthful, do they have respect from other forum members? I look to see if they make posts that are agenda based, and I want to know if they are promoting something, or are they just ugly Americans, that are always looking to put Mexico in a bad light.

Obviously with newbies, with no track record on a forum, I distrust them more than I do regular members, because I know nothing about them, and find it odd, they come to a forum with a fantastic story when they only been a member for a few days, although I don't discount their report out of hand, but I will scrutinized their report more carefully than a known forum or Facebook member.

With second hand reports, I basically say, nice report, but it's a second hand report, and I have no way to try to judge the validly of the report, and this is probably the reason courts treats second hand reports as 'hearsay" and usually don't allow it into evidence.

Third hand reports, forget them, because by the time you hear about it, most of the actual facts of the story will be changed, forgotten, or made up. It still might be an interesting story and have some truth to it, but a third hand report, is nothing but a third hand report, and should be treated as anecdotal evidence, or a good story.

Then I look at the report itself.

I want to know if there are things in the report that seems way over-the-top. I want to know if the report, asks you to suspend beliefs of known physical laws.

I also look for odd things in the report, and ask myself, " would a reasonable person( victim) act like that.

Hell, I even look at the behavior, at the bad guys in the report, and ask myself, would a bad guy, mugger, thief, or scam artist really do that. Even the bad guys are somewhat predictable.

These are just some of the things I look at when trying to determine if a report is truthful or not, and no, I don't have pencil and paper, checking things off, as I'm reading a incident report, but for sure, I see red flags right away, and sometimes I can't help myself, but share those feelings I have with others.

I'm also a contrarian in life, if the herd is going one way, I will go the opposite way, because herd behavior is almost always wrong.

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeJustJoe - 2-14-2016 at 03:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Howard

The story seems to be falling apart a little bit, because now we heard, at least three partial versions of the alleged incident.

The first story, which was a second hand story, the Mexican military, at the check point were involved in the assault on the family, because they deliberately held up the second car in the caravan, which allowed three men in military assault the family, and according to this report, the wife and daughter could eye witness at least one of the perpetrators, because he didn't even take off the military uniforms.

However, according to the mother's first hand report posted over at "Talk Baja," which has been since erased. The mother was asleep in the back of the car, dressed with hoodie and loose clothing, and she said her and her daughter didn't recognize the men from the check point, and could only give a vague description of the men, but she thinks the uniforms of the attackers were the same as the check point.

Now we have a third version of story from a "Baja Nomad" member who now is in contact with a family member, and he says, the perpetrators, were not seen at the check point at all.

The alleged victims, can't even recognize the perpetrators, and probably couldn't even point them out in a line up.

I don't know about me, but if anybody broke my car window, and pulled my daughter out by the hair, and then held a knife to her throat. I think I would remember their face, and in fact, I probably would never forget their face as long as I lived.

There is now little to no evidence that the military check point, and Mexican military personal was involved in this alleged incident at all. There are no alleged victim witnesses connecting the Mexican military, to this alleged incident.

[Edited on 2-14-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-14-2016 at 03:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Howard

chuckie - 2-14-2016 at 03:52 PM

17year old kid on a Polaris won the main at Deadwood today....Same kid that won at Fargo 2 weeks ago....

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-14-2016 at 03:55 PM

Jihad you're always complaining that people do not provide links to what they post. How about you providing proof you emailed the American Consulate and show the actual emails back and forth! Until that happens I do not believe you.

Here is a little bit of information I received from the U. S. consulate, when I sent them an email, asking basic information about this alleged case, and I related to them a few concerns of mine, that may have crossed the desk of the U.S consulate over the years.

Since there is no note about their email being privileged and confidential. I'm comfortable, sharing at least partially the main gist of their email to me.

The other main thing they told me, was that due to Privacy Act limitations, they can't publicly or privately discuss any inquiries of any possible case. I'm sure this extends to everyone, even those claiming special friendship with Consulate personal.

In the future, if I ever find myself a victim of a serious crime in Baja, after I received medical attention, I'm going to call the U.S Consulate, because I will probably need help to navigate all the red tape, especially if I want to do the equivalent of "press charges" in Mexico. I would also want a local police report, because the U.S. Consulate wants proof the incident took place, although they may be able to help you in that regard.

_____________________________________
From the U.S Consulate's email to me:

"The Consulate’s primary responsibilities are the safety and security of U.S. citizens in Baja California; therefore, we treat all such reports as valid until they are demonstrated to be otherwise. With all reports of violent attacks targeting U.S. citizens, once we have spoken to the alleged victim, we regularly follow-up with local law enforcement contacts to verify the facts of the report and to inquire about investigative progress. In addition, we provide guidance to the victims on filing a criminal complaint, and in seeking out victims assistance programs."

[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 2-14-2016 at 04:41 PM

I think his dad has a shop over in Duluth.....

motoged - 2-14-2016 at 05:10 PM

And Duluth isn't far from Hibbing.....some good music came out of Hibbing....

chuckie - 2-14-2016 at 05:37 PM

Uff Daa!

Gulliver - 2-16-2016 at 08:04 AM

Another grubby day in paradise. Blue sky wall to wall. Gonna hit 80 maybe. Light breeze.

I hated school and lived in Washington State so waking up to sunny weather still means that it's Summer vacation and I don't have to go to school today!

Big grin.

bajabuddha - 2-16-2016 at 11:05 AM

I went grocery shopping at 9:00 a.m. in shorts and flip-flops today! Must be all that warm air flowing eastward from SoCal lately.... thanks, I love springtime, especially when it's only the middle of February. I should mention we're at 4500' elevation at that!

Udo - 2-16-2016 at 11:16 AM

Yesterday was 89 degrees in Ensenada!

JoeJustJoe - 2-16-2016 at 11:21 AM

What weird passive-aggressive grade school type trolling here in an attempt to derail this thread.

The good thing is the mass hysteria of these kind of threads seem to generate have also ended.

chuckie - 2-16-2016 at 11:34 AM

Warm enough here that I pulled the boat out...Walleyes be biting soon...

micah202 - 2-16-2016 at 11:34 AM

.

....finally not raining in vancouver :biggrin:

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-16-2016 at 11:39 AM

Jihad you're always complaining that people do not provide links to what they post. How about you providing proof you emailed the American Consulate and show the actual emails back and forth! Until that happens I do not believe you.