BajaNomad

tres santos

pacificobob - 4-29-2016 at 08:46 AM

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2987621/bruta...

SFandH - 4-29-2016 at 10:02 AM

Thanks for the link. The web page mentions a New York Times article. In January the NYT listed 52 places to visit this year. Todos Santos is number 23. Why? Well, because of the Tres Santos development, of course.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/07/travel/places-...


"Nearly 50 miles north of Cabo San Lucas, tranquil Todos Santos has long been a surfer’s retreat and a day-trip destination for Cabo travelers keen to visit art galleries. In summer, the new Tres Santos development may tempt longer visits via Hotel San Cristobal, a new 32-room beachfront hotel from Bunkhouse, owners of Hotel San Jose in Austin. A new 3.5-mile hiking and biking path will link the beach to town to encourage sustainable commutes. Tres Santos, which bills itself as a “mindful living community” and includes vacation homes, also plans to open a farm and a village with shops, restaurants and a farmer’s market this year."

Elaine Glusac


[Edited on 4-29-2016 by SFandH]

SFandH - 4-29-2016 at 02:18 PM

I think this is the beachfront hotel development at Punta Lobos. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A picture is worth a 1000 words.

http://tinyurl.com/hr4nezm



[Edited on 4-29-2016 by SFandH]

rts551 - 4-30-2016 at 06:16 AM

Nothing new here. Viviane Mahieux's one sided articles campaigning against this development have been around for a while.

The fight for and against this development are like watching a political debate....both sides telling only one part of the story

4x4abc - 4-30-2016 at 06:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Nothing new here. Viviane Mahieux's one sided articles campaigning against this development have been around for a while.

The fight for and against this development are like watching a political debate....both sides telling only one part of the story


you are so right - let's make all of Baja look/feel/smell like Cabo. Let's kick those bastard indigenous out

wilderone - 4-30-2016 at 07:39 AM

"1000 words"
And a few of them not fit for print. gawdawful

rts551 - 4-30-2016 at 08:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Nothing new here. Viviane Mahieux's one sided articles campaigning against this development have been around for a while.

The fight for and against this development are like watching a political debate....both sides telling only one part of the story
make baja anything.

you are so right - let's make all of Baja look/feel/smell like Cabo. Let's kick those bastard indigenous out


When did I ever say make Baja anything. That should be up the citizens. and sure as hell, the indigenous got kicked out way before the yuppies took over Todos Santos.

The Sales Pitch

SFandH - 4-30-2016 at 09:15 AM

Just spent some time reading their website. Here are some words/phrases from just a couple of the web pages used to sell their houses that don't exist.

An epicenter for well-being.

artisanal

holistic

integrated

Commune with nature

Write. Paint. Breathe. Grow. Surf.

morning gong and sun salutations

Beauty and solitude

Find your own space

reach the summit in this stellar backdrop

inspires a shared sense of belonging and purpose

yoga teachers, and the enlightened crowd

wake-up call for mindful living

the soulful

:lol::lol:

rts551 - 4-30-2016 at 09:46 AM

They should fit right in with Todos Santos then. You forgot to mention the free rock and roll concert every year where you can smoke a little medicine.

4x4abc - 4-30-2016 at 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Just spent some time reading their website. Here are some words/phrases from just a couple of the web pages used to sell their houses that don't exist.

An epicenter for well-being.

artisanal

holistic

integrated

Commune with nature

Write. Paint. Breathe. Grow. Surf.

morning gong and sun salutations

Beauty and solitude

Find your own space

reach the summit in this stellar backdrop

inspires a shared sense of belonging and purpose

yoga teachers, and the enlightened crowd

wake-up call for mindful living

the soulful

:lol::lol:



hey, big money is super smart - more so than most of us. If you can sell yoga courses with those phrases - you can certainly sell property with them.

pauldavidmena - 4-30-2016 at 11:35 AM

The development - and its opposition - are gaining a lot of visibility in social media. The anti-Tres Santos forces appear to be preaching to the converted and therefore have yet to reach anyone in a position to intervene. For their part, the developers have yet to acknowledge that there is a shred of opposition to the project, and that their efforts are in harmony with the townspeople, the fishermen, etc. I would suspect that their ads are reaching more people than the voice of the opposition, which is largely led by volunteers and not a PR machine.

Needless to say, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

tiotomasbcs - 4-30-2016 at 11:39 AM

Last time you were in Todos Santos, RTS? The Yuppies have arrived but most of us old timers still enjoy our peaceful living along with a Music event and nice restaurant once in awhile. How would you like a Development like this in Abreojos? Think I'll go for a quiet walk on the beach. Tio

rts551 - 4-30-2016 at 11:45 AM

Tio, About 4 months ago. And no thanks...we do not have rock concerts or nice restaurants....just normal small town Mexican stuff. Have a nice walk...looking at the beacjh right now...not a soul in sight.

Lee - 4-30-2016 at 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Nothing new here. Viviane Mahieux's one sided articles campaigning against this development have been around for a while.

The fight for and against this development are like watching a political debate....both sides telling only one part of the story
make baja anything.

you are so right - let's make all of Baja look/feel/smell like Cabo. Let's kick those bastard indigenous out


When did I ever say make Baja anything. That should be up the citizens. and sure as hell, the indigenous got kicked out way before the yuppies took over Todos Santos.


Don't think locals see yuppies taking over or indigenous kicked out. Maybe they don't see it. I don't. I do see greed and outsiders sneaking development though at Lobos. The marketing I'm reading isn't Todos -- maybe an outsiders idea of what yuppies think Todos is. They'll find out when they check things out.

Cerritos went the way Lobos has and San Pedrito is ripe for more development. Then La Pastora.

SFandH - 4-30-2016 at 04:24 PM

Lots of interesting reading about tres santos at the CSU newspaper's website. Make sure to check out the comments at the end of each article.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion...


[Edited on 4-30-2016 by SFandH]

pauldavidmena - 4-30-2016 at 08:34 PM

I give CSU credit for following up on events in Todos Santos and reporting them to the student body. It leads me to believe that they might have been unwittingly co-opted into "green-washing" the Tres Santos project.

rts551 - 5-1-2016 at 06:24 AM

Just one of the "locals" comments....

Joaquin Salgdo • 3 months ago

To Adams, Bodian, Obstfeld and the Collegian semi-reporter who wrote the uninformed and biased article-

What you wrote is just the simple mark of low class Americans trying to live an upscale life in poor and jobless Todos Santos, and desperately want to stop progress in town, we as local business owners and people that actually work are eager for this town to bloom and show the world its potential, you on the other side want to continue to live under your miserable pension as rich guys in this town that has been forgotten and disregarded form development-

Only 30 to 35 uninformed fishermen are the ones that are standing up to something that they do not understand nor want- and their leaders are being funded by americans who want to make a living out of videos and lies like Lisa Jackson and Sarah Teale-

Open your eyes students, speak wieth the peolple not with their leaders that cleary have other agenda-



rts551 - 5-1-2016 at 06:25 AM

Another

Cachano Higuera • 3 months ago

a very small very unhappy frustrated group of foreign and some Mexicans
from Mexico city lazy freeloaders are those who criticize the project
they should be expelled from Mexico, they are causing a division in the town in fact 98% of the local people agree with
this source of employment, fix your culture and stay at home, Baja is not the place of alien haters

pauldavidmena - 5-1-2016 at 09:44 AM

I agree that it's interesting to read the comments. While I doubt the development enjoys 98% support of the local population, it's also undoubtedly true that the town is not unanimously opposed to the project. What remains is a dogfight between the resort's PR department and strident activists, along with the innuendo of back-door deals, crooked politicians and clueless marine biology students. The competing narratives of "Mindful Living in Paradise" versus "Salvemos Punta Lobos" have taken on lives of their own, more so than the future of the project or its true impact - good and bad - upon the community.

rts551 - 5-1-2016 at 05:20 PM

well said PaulDavid

SFandH - 5-1-2016 at 06:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
well said PaulDavid


Yes, that was well said. Does the good (more money/jobs) outweigh the bad (more people/water usage/sewage/garbage/traffic).

Houses back from the beach and in the hills, OK.

Hotel on the beach, horrible.

IMHO.



[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]

rts551 - 5-1-2016 at 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
well said PaulDavid


Yes, that was well said. Does the good (more money/jobs) outweigh the bad (more people/water usage/sewage/garbage/traffic).

Houses back from the beach and in the hills, OK.

Hotel on the beach, horrible.

IMHO.




[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]


The answer to your question should be left to the Mexican people. :light: If the Mexicans wanted gringo opinions I am sure they would ask.

Udo - 5-2-2016 at 06:57 PM

:bounce::biggrin::bounce:

pauldavidmena - 5-5-2016 at 03:11 PM

Just read this article in a Colorado State University online newsletter. There's no mention of Tres Santos, but rather CSU's commitment to sustainability.

pauldavidmena - 5-6-2016 at 04:09 PM

This article about CSU Todos Santos is from a Veterinary News website and talks about the "externships" offered by the university.

elgatoloco - 5-6-2016 at 09:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I think this is the beachfront hotel development at Punta Lobos. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A picture is worth a 1000 words.

http://tinyurl.com/hr4nezm



[Edited on 4-29-2016 by SFandH]


You can hardly notice the difference. :rolleyes:

Petey - 5-10-2016 at 03:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Another

Cachano Higuera • 3 months ago

a very small very unhappy frustrated group of foreign and some Mexicans
from Mexico city lazy freeloaders are those who criticize the project
they should be expelled from Mexico, they are causing a division in the town in fact 98% of the local people agree with
this source of employment, fix your culture and stay at home, Baja is not the place of alien haters


This comment was by a fake Facebook profile, not a local. Also, don't get too excited about the Todos Santos Music Festival-we've probably seen the last of those after the shenanigans TS pulled on Peter Buck.

pauldavidmena - 5-10-2016 at 03:55 PM

Interesting but not surprising to hear that the pro-development comments boasting 98% local support were bogus.

Regarding Peter Buck, I was in the plaza in January when he exhorted Todos Santeños to fight for their town. It seemed equal parts rock-n-roll activism and red wine and zero parts insurrection, but I suspect Mr. Buck was unaware that Article 33 of the Mexican constitution might view his words differently. So far the Festival website and festival Facebook page have been mum about plans for 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a hiatus, which would be a terrible shame.

SFandH - 5-10-2016 at 05:06 PM

How's the hotel on the beach shaping up? Progress?

[Edited on 5-11-2016 by SFandH]

Petey - 5-11-2016 at 06:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena  
Interesting but not surprising to hear that the pro-development comments boasting 98% local support were bogus.

Regarding Peter Buck, I was in the plaza in January when he exhorted Todos Santeños to fight for their town. It seemed equal parts rock-n-roll activism and red wine and zero parts insurrection, but I suspect Mr. Buck was unaware that Article 33 of the Mexican constitution might view his words differently. So far the Festival website and festival Facebook page have been mum about plans for 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a hiatus, which would be a terrible shame.


There are some specific issues in this matter that go far beyond a rock star ranting about development in a general fashion.

The New York Times weighs in

pauldavidmena - 7-20-2016 at 03:15 PM

Much of the press we've read about Tres Santos has been decidedly partisan - either downright hostile or "friendly" to the point of being an advertisement. This article from the New York Times isn't exactly a hard-hitting expose, but it does strike a dubious tone.

gnukid - 7-20-2016 at 05:06 PM

If only the developers could clean up their act a bit, not abuse water as they have, and demonstrate best use of the desalinization, reduce abuse of the beach and provide the support promised to fisherman then maybe there would be widespread support of the project since it could benefit everyone if only they weren't so abusive and deceitful about the water.

pauldavidmena - 7-20-2016 at 06:13 PM

I'm all for a less ambitious project that is self-sustaining and respectful of full-time residents. Maybe Tres Santos will scale down their expectations dramatically given the opposition both in terms of protests and soft sales. My fear is that they'll overbuild, leaving an abandoned cinder-block monument to greed.

gnukid - 7-20-2016 at 10:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
well said PaulDavid


Yes, that was well said. Does the good (more money/jobs) outweigh the bad (more people/water usage/sewage/garbage/traffic).

Houses back from the beach and in the hills, OK.

Hotel on the beach, horrible.

IMHO.




[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]


The answer to your question should be left to the Mexican people. :light: If the Mexicans wanted gringo opinions I am sure they would ask.


Who are the mexican people? What is their heritage? Are they mestizo, portugese, spanish, european, american? Yes? How does being Mexican differ from being Mexican American or American Mexican in your mind since you have a strong opinion? What role do recent immigrants from the north vs immigrants from the south or east to Mexico have compared to recent transplants from other parts of mexico and south america tr vs someone who is born in mexico? What is mexican? Do you know SFandH? At what point is someone mexican, if they live there, if they are resident, if they pay taxes, if they have a house, and business? Do they have to speak the language? How many people are born in baja vs immigrate? how many people are born in todos santos vs immigrate? Apparently you've thought this through and can explain who is mexican in your mindset and gets to decide the outcome of everything.

[Edited on 7-21-2016 by gnukid]

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2016 at 06:16 AM

it is amusing that the conspiracy theorist trust fund kid Is opining on gringos having opinions on Mexicans opining. Everyone is opinionated!
Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
well said PaulDavid


Yes, that was well said. Does the good (more money/jobs) outweigh the bad (more people/water usage/sewage/garbage/traffic).

Houses back from the beach and in the hills, OK.

Hotel on the beach, horrible.

IMHO.




[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]


The answer to your question should be left to the Mexican people. :light: If the Mexicans wanted gringo opinions I am sure they would ask.


Who are the mexican people? What is their heritage? Are they mestizo, portugese, spanish, european, american? Yes? How does being Mexican differ from being Mexican American or American Mexican in your mind since you have a strong opinion? What role do recent immigrants from the north vs immigrants from the south or east to Mexico have compared to recent transplants from other parts of mexico and south america tr vs someone who is born in mexico? What is mexican? Do you know SFandH? At what point is someone mexican, if they live there, if they are resident, if they pay taxes, if they have a house, and business? Do they have to speak the language? How many people are born in baja vs immigrate? how many people are born in todos santos vs immigrate? Apparently you've thought this through and can explain who is mexican in your mindset and gets to decide the outcome of everything.

[Edited on 7-21-2016 by gnukid]

Lee - 7-21-2016 at 08:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
it is amusing that the conspiracy theorist trust fund kid Is opining on gringos having opinions on Mexicans opining. Everyone is opinionated!


Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
well said PaulDavid


Yes, that was well said. Does the good (more money/jobs) outweigh the bad (more people/water usage/sewage/garbage/traffic).

Houses back from the beach and in the hills, OK.

Hotel on the beach, horrible.

IMHO.




[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]


The answer to your question should be left to the Mexican people. :light: If the Mexicans wanted gringo opinions I am sure they would ask.


Who are the mexican people? What is their heritage? Are they mestizo, portugese, spanish, european, american? Yes? How does being Mexican differ from being Mexican American or American Mexican in your mind since you have a strong opinion? What role do recent immigrants from the north vs immigrants from the south or east to Mexico have compared to recent transplants from other parts of mexico and south america tr vs someone who is born in mexico? What is mexican? Do you know SFandH? At what point is someone mexican, if they live there, if they are resident, if they pay taxes, if they have a house, and business? Do they have to speak the language? How many people are born in baja vs immigrate? how many people are born in todos santos vs immigrate? Apparently you've thought this through and can explain who is mexican in your mindset and gets to decide the outcome of everything.

[Edited on 7-21-2016 by gnukid]


Really, Tom, Paul might rant but he's smart AND lives in La Paz. Just a bit more knowledge about what's going on in Todos than the occasional weekend SOB.

Any Mexicans thinking the tres santos development is anything but a cluster f*ck is living for the moment. Scarcity of water has always been a problem in Todos. Looks like a train wreck happening.

gnukid - 7-21-2016 at 10:45 AM

It should be a simple question for SFandH, what is his definition of a Mexican person in Todos Santos, who determines what is good for Todos Santos?

Interesting that if you live in the USA you are immediately a participant in the process, everyone has a right to determine the future of USA and are American many claim the right and never have lived in the USA but have some connection. and those in Todos Santos are also Americans (Mexican from North America) many or most of which are recent immigrants. BCS is among the newest states in North America, very few people are born in Todos Santos, perhaps a few hundred who now live there. The population is largely immigrants, new arrivals, transient, seasonal, so who are the people of Todos Santos?

Aren't they the people who live there, whose hearts are there, committed to the well being of the region, who contribute economically and thoughtfully?


[Edited on 7-21-2016 by gnukid]

More mainstream media coverage

pauldavidmena - 7-29-2016 at 12:41 PM

Just read this article in Marketplace, the website maintained by the popular NPR program. One wonders how wider coverage of Tres Santos and its opponents will impact its development.