BajaNomad - Returning an FMM Tourist Card

Returning an FMM Tourist Card

John M - 4-29-2016 at 02:20 PM

Ten days ago we entered Baja via Mexicali West (old crossing). I had an unexpired 180 day Fmm. My friend went into the immigration office to get his seven day free tourist card. The clerk spoke perfect English and asked him about the tourist card he had gotten this past January at Mexicali East and why it hasn't been returned as required. Of course the action of not returning a tourist card has been going on for as long as I've gotten them, no doubt longer than that. The reason for not returning it was that it's pretty difficult to return it to the Baja Immigration when you are northbound at the border.

The Mexicali agent was intending on refusing to issue a new tourist card since the old seven day card was outstanding. After a bit of cajoling the agent relented and issued a seven day tourist card; with a warning that he had been warned about returning it.

Interestingly, the Mexicali West agent had pulled up on his computer the date of the January entrance, the info about the permit issued then, and even the name of the agent that had issued it. We were surprised.

Of course coming home we failed again to turn it in.

BajaGeoff posted late last year: "The FMM does not have to be returned to an immigration official when leaving Baja California by land."

Is there a mail in return procedure? I'm going back in June and my 180 day card expires this month.

John M

David K - 4-29-2016 at 02:50 PM

Posted a couple years ago:

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
You could avoid the hassle at the border and return the FMM by mail:

Postage is $1.15 (as of Aug. 2014) if mailing from the U.S.

INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION
PUENTE PUERTA S/N
COLONIA FEDERAL
TIJUANA, B.C. MEXICO C.P. 22310

sancho - 4-29-2016 at 03:16 PM

Good timing, I crossed into Mex 2 Wed. ago, Mexicali West, and as I won't knowlingly violate Mex regs, stopped at the Imm office at the West crossing to get the free 7 day fmm. I have
a 7 day fmm from walking into TJ maybe it is 5 mos. old, never
returned. Was given a 7 day fmm. I asked the Imm officer, who
also spoke perfect English, if the fmm had to be returned. He was adament that, YES, it
had to be returned before it expires, no question about it.
So while in the vehicle car line coming back, the wife drove while
I got out, 3 blks before the little park, and walked maybe 6 blks.
to the Mexicali West Imm office and returned them. This has
happened before there. Seems to be particular to the Mexicali
West crossing. Was a post on another site, a mo. or so back,
same thing, a Gringo was asked why the previous free fmm was
not returned, was not given another. Had to get the 180 day. The reported not having to return them is spotty at best. It is
almost like their computer is set up only for their own
crossing. I know 1 thing, Mex Imm does not have a uniform,
consistant application of Imm regs from TJ to Algodones,
the regs are only for the Office you're dealing with

TMW - 4-29-2016 at 03:17 PM

Discover Baja Travel Club says you do not need to return the FMM Tourist Card. This is their FAQ list. It's at the bottom.

FMM Tourist Permit FAQs

FMM tourist permit visa baja mexicoAs of September 2015, INM (Mexico’s immigration department) requires that all U.S. and Canadian citizens have an FMM tourist permit any time they are in Mexico. Below are answers to frequently asked questions about the FMM tourist permit. To obtain a prepaid FMM tourist permit through Discover Baja, saving you time and hassle at the border, or for more information about FMMs, see our FMM Tourist Permit Page.

FMM Tourist Permit
$390 pesos at the border
$37 prepaid FMMs for Discover Baja members
Valid for up to 180 days
Free FMMs available for stays of seven days or less

What is an FMM tourist permit?

The FMM, Forma Migratoria Múltiple, is a tourist permit or tourist card that allows citizens from the U.S. and Canada (as well as from other countries that are listed here) to travel in Mexico. While often called a Mexican “visa,” the FMM is not a visa and is completely different from the Mexican visa that is required for citizens of specific countries listed here. U.S. and Canadian citizens do not need a visa to travel in Mexico, but they do need an FMM tourist permit.

Who needs an FMM tourist permit?

All U.S. and Canadian citizens over the age of two, without a Mexican temporary or permanent resident card, need to obtain an FMM tourist permit when entering Mexico.

Do I have to get a FMM tourist permit when I go to Baja?

Yes. Mexican law requires that tourists from the U.S. and Canada have an FMM tourist permit for any trip into Baja. You may encounter INM checkpoints along the peninsula where they will ask to see your passport and FMM. If you get into an accident in Mexico and you don’t have an FMM tourist permit, you are not considered to be in accordance with Mexican law, and therefore your Mexican auto insurance can be rendered invalid. Each individual must have their own FMM, including children ages two and up.

What about the “free zone” for short trips just across the border?

As of September 2015, there is no longer a “free zone” and every person entering Baja, regardless of destination or duration of trip needs to obtain an FMM. If you are only going to be in Mexico for seven days or less, you can get a free FMM, but you still need to stop at the border to fill out the paperwork to obtain the permit.

How much does an FMM cost?

Discover Baja members can get their prepaid FMMs through Discover Baja for $37. If you obtain your FMM at the border, it costs $390 pesos (as of January 1, 2016). If you will be in Mexico for seven days or less, you may obtain a free FMM at the border.

How long is the FMM valid for?

The paid FMM tourist permit is valid for a period of up to 180 days (as long as your passport does not expire before that time) At the border, they will ask you how long you would like the permit for and you should ask for the full 180 days. The free FMM is only valid for seven days or less.

Can I use my FMM for multiple entries?

While the old law said that FMM tourist permits were only valid for one use into Mexico, the INM has recently said that FMM tourist permits can be used for multiple entries in and out of Mexico, through the end date of the permit.

What do I need in order to get an FMM tourist permit?

You will need to have a passport or passport card. Keep in mind that since passport books and passport cards have different numbers, you will need to carry whichever one you use to obtain your FMM (ie you can’t use your passport book to obtain the FMM and then just carry around your FMM with your passport card).

Where do I get an FMM tourist permit?

You can obtain an FMM at the immigration office as you cross into Mexico. Discover Baja members can also obtain prepaid FMMs through Discover Baja, saving time and hassle at the border.

What is the process to get an FMM?

You will need to stop at the border as you cross into Mexico. You will look for the INM/SAT Aduanas building (immigration and customs). You will first go to INM where you will fill out the paperwork for the FMM. Then you will need to go to Banjercito where you will pay for the FMM. Once paid for, take your receipt back to INM to complete the process and get your FMM stamped by immigration. Discover Baja members can save time and hassle at the border by getting a prepaid FMM through Discover Baja and will just need to get the FMM stamped when entering Baja.

Do I have to stop at the border to get my FMM? Can’t I stop farther down to get one?

You must get your FMM stamped at the border when entering Mexico. You are no longer allowed to get an FMM for land travel at immigration stations farther south. The INM office in Ensenada now only processes nautical FMMs for visitors entering Mexico by boat. The San Ysidro El Chaparral border crossing in Tijuana is open 24/7, 365 days a year, so there should be no problem with getting your FMM at the border no matter what time you’re crossing into Baja.

What if I’m entering Mexico by airplane or boat?

If you are flying to Mexico on a commercial flight from the U.S., the airline will provide you with the paperwork for the FMM tourist permit and has included the fee for the FMM in the price of your ticket. If you are flying from Tijuana, you can obtain your FMM tourist permit from Discover Baja or at the Tijuana airport.

If you are crossing into Mexico by sea, and going south of Ensenada, you can get an FMM through Discover Baja and have it validated at the first port of entry (Ensenada). If you will be crossing into Mexico by sea, but not going south of Ensenada, and not stopping on land, you will need to obtain a nautical FMM tourist permit which is an entirely different process. Discover Baja is now processing nautical FMMs for our members. Please note that it takes 48 hours to obtain a nautical FMM. For more information, see our page on Nautical Sportfishing FMMs.

Do my kids need an FMM?

Any children over the age of two years old need to have an FMM (and therefore a passport or passport card).

Do I need an FMM tourist permit if I have temporary or permanent resident card (formerly known as FM2 or FM3)?

No. Your temporary resident or permanent resident card already functions as your permit to be in Mexico. You do not need to obtain an FMM tourist permit on top of this, and in fact, can be fined for having more than one permit at a time.

If I am applying for a temporary or permanent resident card, do I need to get an FMM?

No. After you submit your documents for a temporary or permanent resident card, you will receive your visa inside your passport. You need to stop at an immigration office at the border where they will provide you with an FMM at no cost to you. You will exchange that FMM for your resident card at the immigration office closest to your Mexican residence.

Do I need to return the FMM?

As of September 2015, you do not need to return your FMM to the INM upon leaving Baja by land (contrary to what it says on the back of the permit). After they have expired, you may shred or discard them.

To obtain a prepaid FMM tourist permit through Discover Baja, saving you time and hassle at the border, or for more information about FMMs, see our FMM Tourist Permit Page.

TMW - 4-29-2016 at 03:28 PM

I emailed Discover Baja and asked them to verify whether the FMM needed to be turned in and also asked who they contacted for the information.

I referenced the John M posting above.

SFandH - 4-29-2016 at 03:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

I know 1 thing, Mex Imm does not have a uniform, consistant application of Imm regs from TJ to Algodones, the regs are only for the Office you're dealing with

I think it's safe to assume the regs are uniquely determined by the misinformed Mexican official you are speaking with at the moment. But I am a bit pessimistic about matters such as these.

sancho - 4-29-2016 at 03:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Discover Baja Travel Club says you do not need to return the FMM Tourist Card

You can post info from whatever Ins Broker you chose, your info
doesn't mean jack. They are NOT an official source for Mex Imm
regs. The ONLY regs in force at the time you're dealing with
Mex Imm are the one's the Imm Officer says they are. Not
some print sheet from a Ca. Ins Broker

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2016 at 04:43 PM

My take on this is that since Mexico implemeted the "everyone coming in needs to get the FMM" which is valid for 6 months, there is absolutely no reason to try and return the visa. You can cross with it for six months, thereafter you will need to get a new FMM. No problem.

David K - 4-29-2016 at 04:49 PM

I think the Mexicali people are looking for some "processing" compensation? That the same INM officers in Tijuana say "throw it away" and Mexicali says turn it in, and both are in the SAME country, is a bit hysterical.
I would say to him next time, "I mailed it in, as instructed".

SFandH - 4-29-2016 at 04:56 PM

I think the rules are up in the air. For example look at the San Ysidro crossing. If you walk across they check for and require a FMM and you can use the same one multiple times, but if you drive across they don't. I understand there are practical reasons, if they stopped traffic to check the back-up would be to the north pole. But still.....

It would be tough to argue with an official that is enforcing the law as it is stated on the document. On the back of the FMM it is stated that you must turn it in when leaving Mexico.

[Edited on 4-30-2016 by SFandH]

mrfatboy - 4-29-2016 at 05:06 PM

@david

Do you happen to have a link to the Mexico Gov website that says we can mail it in? It be nice to show the immigration official if he/she hassles us about turning it in.

If I can prove to the official that they allow mail in returns of the FMM then my go to answer would be that I did so and you guys must have lost it:

mtgoat666 - 4-29-2016 at 08:19 PM

Technology! If they can't track us by microchip implant, then FMM is next best way, eh?

the border exits from Mexico seem to all have chiclet-selling street urchins that need better jobs. Mexico should hire them to collect FMMs.

Or an enterprising amputee could start a service to turn in FMMs for a fee of a couple pesos each.

Problem solved!

Bajaboy - 4-29-2016 at 08:30 PM

Might it be the free 7 day card needs to be turned in?

23S52N - 4-30-2016 at 08:46 AM

This is the letter i received from Baja Bound. I have heard constant rumours about the FMM returns and asked for something in writing....you will note there is a phone number for the agent to call if he has questions. Whether or not he does, is another matter, as we all know. For the first time, i did not return my FMM when returning crossing north at Mexicali east. Note that since this letter, they advise that the FMM can be used multiple times.

Attachment: FMMInfo.pdf (24kB)
This file has been downloaded 734 times

[Edited on 4-30-2016 by 23S52N]

David K - 4-30-2016 at 09:34 AM

My goodness! that FMM link seems to be from 2012 and states the FMM must be returned at the end of the trip... so that contradicts the latest changes we hear about it being good for multiple visits.

mrfatboy, that address (posted by bajaguy) to return the FMM did come from Discover Baja, so maybe give them a call for the latest?

David K - 4-30-2016 at 09:48 AM

No, not alluding.

What "street cop"?

My comment is what this appears to be at Mexicali, since it is not happening anywhere else.

David K - 4-30-2016 at 10:05 AM

No worries Frank... I just said "I think" that is what is happening... What do think is happening? Whatever you (or I) think is in no way an indication of us instructing anyone here to do something wrong.

David K - 4-30-2016 at 10:55 AM

That makes sense... I am amazed at how many here on Nomad as well as those not on Nomad I met in Baja who buy homes or lease lots in Baja and have nothing more than a tourist card for their immigration status!

Yes, the FMM can be used to to make the initial purchase, but then with property in Mexico, that stays in Mexico when you leave, you are no longer a 'tourist' but instead are a part-time resident.

23S52N - 4-30-2016 at 04:31 PM

David,

I would like to know your reasoning, experience, knowledge, behind this statement. Why is owning property in Mexico for a foreign national be any different than a Canadian owning property in the US or vice versa? I bought my property in BCS in 2011 and lived there with an FM3 for a year. Changes in my life dictated that i can only live part of the year there. So i go down on a 180 day FMM and then return to Canada. I have my Fideicomiso, ......I enjoy both countries, Mexican immigration law will not allow me (to my latest knowledge) to acquire a temp resident card. Even if it did, why would i want the extra expense and paperwork?

Your statement perplexes me......

Keith

David K - 4-30-2016 at 04:48 PM

Hi Keith,
Sounds to me that you are doing or trying to do the right thing? There is no difference other than having the correct immigration paperwork to keep property in Mexico while you are not there, as well as when you are.

While I may not be as up-to-date the past couple of years, it has "always" been a case of defining what a "tourist" is in Mexico.
All the documentation that was available when I was more versed on the subject was pretty clear:

A tourist (one who is in Mexico on a 'tourist card' or tourist visa) is someone on a vacation staying in Mexico in another person's home, hotel, or camping. At the end of their vacation, the "tourist" returns to their country leaving no property behind in Mexico.

IF that tourist decides to buy or leave property behind in Mexico, personal (car, clothes, appliances) or real (home, land) then that person is no longer a "tourist" and must obtain the type of visa for part-time residents of Mexico who return year after year to their lot, home, property that remained in Mexico.

Now in the past, a tourist card was an FM-T and a part-time resident (property left in Mexico) would obtain an FM-3. These letter designations have changed, to FMM and ?? so, that is what is new. It was made clear, that buying a home on an FMM was okay, but until you upgraded the visa to the correct status, you had no property rights (legal rights) in Mexico, for one thing.

There must be some legal status if a foreigner buys land or leases land and then builds on it, puts a trailer on it, or ?? that is different than the tourist card we who go camping there or motel-ing there get at the border??

David K - 4-30-2016 at 05:24 PM

SF&H had posted a question to me about providing links... while I just did a search, when I came back, he/she removed the reply...?

Well, not to let my side work be wasted... here is my reply:

Just did a quick search for you, and found this on the first page that opened, this was below the paragraph for tourists needing a tourist card, so obviously a different visa when you live in Mexico vs. going on a vacation:

U.S. citizens who plan to work or live in Mexico, must request the corresponding Mexican visa at the Mexican Embassy (1911 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W., Washington, D.C. 20006; telephone (202) 736-1000) or at any Mexican consulate in the United States.

the link: http://www.visitmexico.com/en/mexico-airports-and-entry-requ...

Here is another link:

An FM3 allows the person to bring in household items and to keep a car with foreign plates without having to drive back to the border every 6 months. There are different types of FM3s. Some give permission to work for specific companies, others to work at specific professions or businesses. These can be very difficult to get. Usually people apply for the FM3 Rentista...

If the FM3 "allows" that, then without an FM3, it is disallowed, yes?

The link: http://tomzap.com/living.html

More at that link: Many foreigners want to come to Mexico for periods longer than those permitted under the typical tourist visa. For those who are interested in spending more than three months in Mexico year after year, it's wise to get an FM-3 visa which will permit one to enter Mexico with household goods and carries with it permission to stay for the one year after which the visa is issued.

Again, I think the names of the visa may be different now, but the classification of tourist vs. part-time resident and the rights and abilities should be the same, yes?

danaeb - 4-30-2016 at 06:08 PM

David - you are confusing residency status with property ownership rights. If you have property under a fideicomiso, there are no residency requirements. In order to enter into a contract for purchase, you must show a current entry document (FMM or greater). If you choose to move your household goods down, under the old FM3 or the new classifications, you have a one-time exemption on import duties. Other than that, there is no connection between your FMM status and your on-going property rights.

23S52N - 4-30-2016 at 06:12 PM

David, I am going to go way out on a limb here. Firstly we are going full circle in guessing what actual Mexican law is, rather than actually quoting verbatim from a statute...ergo full circle guessing about returning FMMs.

From my latest understanding of immigration law in Mexico, an FMM is the correct document for those who stay in Mexico less than 180 days, regardless of property ownership.

I would be interested in hearing from those who can cite CURRENT Mexican immigration statutes, not 2 years or older, which seems to be a habit on this site. No offence intended to your input, David.

Regards,
Keith

David K - 4-30-2016 at 06:33 PM

Not at all Keith, it's all about getting the facts right with me.
As I said, I have no inside scoop, but using logic with what had been the case before... that a tourist is a person on a vacation and not one who goes back to the same home year after year, with personal property left there between trips. A tourist card does not give property rights to people without some kind of resident visa.

But, it's Mexico, as many will say here and the rules will depend on who you talk to, not an Internet site!

[Edited on 5-1-2016 by David K]

SFandH - 4-30-2016 at 07:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 23S52N

From my latest understanding of immigration law in Mexico, an FMM is the correct document for those who stay in Mexico less than 180 days, regardless of property ownership.

I would be interested in hearing from those who can cite CURRENT Mexican immigration statutes, not 2 years or older, which seems to be a habit on this site. No offence intended to your input, David.

From: http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/seattle/index.php/visas-requirem...

FMM:

This type of visa is for you if:
You are traveling to Mexico for vacations, transit, business, technical activities, artistic activities, scientific activities, sport activities, correspondent or journalist, Ministers of religion.
You will be in Mexico for up to 180 days.
You don't Have a work authorization.

Temporary Resident:

This type of visa is for you if:

You are traveling to Mexico for retirement, investments, professional activities, technical activities, artistic activities, scientific activities, and sport activities or as a minister of religion.
You will be in Mexico more than 180 days.

[Edited on 5-1-2016 by SFandH]

23S52N - 4-30-2016 at 07:06 PM

I appreciate your input, David, but I will refer you to Danaeb's post above yours. I agree with his input, which i think is based on more recent statutes than yours. FMMs, IMHO, are the proper documentation for property owners who spend less than 180 days in Mexico....all others are for those wishing to take residency past the 180 days.

.............and SF&H's submission which was posted as I typed.....correct for NOT more than 180 days for the FMM.

regards,
Keith

[Edited on 5-1-2016 by 23S52N]

Alm - 5-1-2016 at 01:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 23S52N

From my latest understanding of immigration law in Mexico, an FMM is the correct document for those who stay in Mexico less than 180 days, regardless of property ownership.

All we have to go by is brief quotes of general nature.

It 's like saying that AK-47 is the correct weapon when you need to defend yourself from dozen attackers. Yeah, and you'll go to jail if you do.

Normally, a tourist is not supposed to leave anything behind. It "seems" that buying a land is not considered a violation in itself. But there are limits - for a tourist - on what you are allowed to own and how to use it. Note that it's only land and/or structure. Not a car, ATV, furniture, bedding etc etc that you bring and leave there several times a year.

At the same time, being a tourist affects your legal rights - which "should" mean it affects some of your property rights. Would you be 100% positive that this isn't so when and if it comes to court action?

At the same time, establishing de-facto residence in Mexico can - not should but can - affect his status NOB in more than one way, depends where he is from and how much time he spends at his Mexican residence.

Though I would like to get this convoluted thread back on track. It seems that only 7-day FMM need to be returned now. What about return of 180-day FMM? At least, what is legally required? I realize that interpretation by moody INM officer will still be the last word

[Edited on 5-1-2016 by Alm]

Jack Swords - 5-1-2016 at 02:32 PM

Thanks to this thread I just returned our FMMs to Instituto De Migracion in Tijuana. I try to do this, but forgot.

Now to add to the confusion: our sailboat has been in its slip at Marina de la Paz for 17 years. We originally had a 10 yr import permit, and renewed it when that time was up. All we have ever had was an FMM as we don't need more time in Mexico. We are allowed to bring in repair parts etc. for the boat under that permit. This is a sizable chunk of property that sits in that country. Long time ago a boat was bonded under the Marina's responsiblity, but now it is done through an individual import permit.

SFandH - 5-1-2016 at 05:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

It seems that only 7-day FMM need to be returned now. What about return of 180-day FMM? At least, what is legally required?

The most official position, because it is stated on the back off the FMM itself, is that you must turn it in when you leave Mexico.

willardguy - 5-1-2016 at 05:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

It seems that only 7-day FMM need to be returned now. What about return of 180-day FMM? At least, what is legally required?

The most official position, because it is stated on the back off the FMM itself, is that you must turn it in when you leave Mexico.

my take, for what ever reason...they collect em on airplane flights?? and to simplify things they just made one FMM form. other than that its just a non issue, other than to keep the baja message boards in business.

SFandH - 5-1-2016 at 05:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

they collect em on airplane flights?? and to simplify things they just made one FMM form. other than that its just a non issue....to simplify things they just made one FMM form.

That's the problem, you nailed it. One size does not fit all. What are people that cross a couple of times a month for a day or two or a week in the border region supposed to do?

The old rules where you didn't need a FMM unless you went further south made a lot of sense. There are 10s maybe 100s of thousands of people that have families/friends a few miles apart on both sides of the border and crossing is a regular thing.

Also, it's not a non-issue if you're not on an airplane because if you walk across at TJ, they require you to have a FMM. It's something new.

[Edited on 5-2-2016 by SFandH]

Alm - 5-1-2016 at 07:12 PM

I "think" they are making waves with return of 7-day form because they have to work for it now

. You get free 7-day FMM, stay 180 days and don't return it. Gobierno is missing money.
In the past they didn't care, but now they have to do more work, issuing FMM to everybody, including short trips.

TMW - 5-2-2016 at 06:40 PM

I got this response from Discover Baja today.

Hi Tom,

We had a meeting with Mexican official a few months ago and they told us directly that the FMM’s didn’t have to be turned in and to let them know if any officer was requesting them.

I forwarded your e-mail to the immigration office in Tijuana. As soon as I have a response I’ll let you know.

Maythé
Smile

Discover Baja Travel Club
(619) 275-4225
(800) 727-2252
(858) 458-0722 Fax
www.discoverbaja.com
www.facebook.com/discoverbaja

surabi - 5-6-2016 at 07:22 PM

Almost everyone who has posted here is confused about what an FMM is. It is NOT a tourist visa. It is a migratory document which Mex. immigration uses to track foreign exit/entry. When flying in, everyone except Mex. citizens are required to fill one out. It is VERY IMPORTANT to check the correct box on it- tourist, temporary resident, or permanent resident (FM3 and FM2 are terms that no longer exist) and point out your residency status to the immigration officer at the airport. Once you have residency status, you must NEVER enter as a tourist. This is illegal and will result in your losing your residency status and having to start over.

Udo - 5-6-2016 at 07:43 PM

Of course, once you have residency status, one will never need a tourist visa again.

surabi - 5-6-2016 at 08:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Udo

Of course, once you have residency status, one will never need a tourist visa again.

If you were referring to my post above yours, you missed all of what I said. There is no "tourist visa", except maybe the 7 day one some folks get (I've never seen one of those, so don't know).

There is an FMM, on which you are either listed as a tourist, or a temp or permanent resident. If you have residency, you don't need to show your card entering or exiting when driving if no one stops you. However, you must do so if you want $ back on a TIP deposit you paid.

If you fly in or out, you need to fill out the FMM no matter what status you have. And if you are ever considering applying for Mex. citizenship, it is important to have the documentation of your entries and exits, as the amount of time you have spent out of Mexico in a certain amount of years is a determining factor in eligibility.

surabi - 5-6-2016 at 09:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 23S52N

David,

I would like to know your reasoning, experience, knowledge, behind this statement. Why is owning property in Mexico for a foreign national be any different than a Canadian owning property in the US or vice versa? I bought my property in BCS in 2011 and lived there with an FM3 for a year. Changes in my life dictated that i can only live part of the year there. So i go down on a 180 day FMM and then return to Canada. I have my Fideicomiso, ......I enjoy both countries, Mexican immigration law will not allow me (to my latest knowledge) to acquire a temp resident card. Even if it did, why would i want the extra expense and paperwork?

I can understand not wanting to go through the expense and paperwork of becoming a resident if there is no reason for you to do so, but I don't understand your statement that Mexican immigration law will not allow you to acquire temporary residency. Are you a convicted felon, or what? Otherwise, it is just a matter of meeting the income requirements. There is nothing about being a temporary or permanent resident that is based on how long you reside per year in Mexico.

Your statement perplexes me......

Keith

karenintx - 5-6-2016 at 10:26 PM

Have had my RP for 3 years. Every time I fly out of Mexico I am required to fill out a FMM. The lower part of the form is collected at the gate before boarding the plane then when I fly back into the country I am required to give the INM agent the top part of the form.

It is the same form tourist fill out, only difference is I do not have to pay the Mexican tourist fee. I am required to pay Mexican airport tax just like Mexican citizens do when they fly out of any airport in Mexico...it is part of their airplane ticket.

Back in the day of FM-3's, we flew out of SJD so we filled out the required forms. We were bring a car back so once we crossed the Mexican border (@ Nogales) we stopped to turn in the required paper work, get our Fm-3 stamped and bought the TIP that was required since we were going to catch the ferry from Los Mochis/Topolobampo to La Paz.

Even when I had a FM-3 I was required to fill out a tourist form when flying out of a Mexican airport.

fdt - 5-7-2016 at 06:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John M

BajaGeoff posted late last year: "The FMM does not have to be returned to an immigration official when leaving Baja California by land."

John M

Yesterday I brought a group of newzelnders and australians for a day in Tijuana and as I was with the group while they filled out the FMM's (Forma Migratoria Multiple), I was approached by the immigration supervisor and he asks me if I am the tour guide for the group, I answer yes, just for the day, he then starts laughing and said I should have known it was you. Turns out (I didn't recognize him at first, we change with age I guess), it was my buddy from Southwestern College, Eduardo Tavera. Long story short, he told me no one is required to return the cards/ visas/ forms, since there is no booth set up for that purpose, to just throw them away. So there you have it, next time just tell them the supervisor in Tijuana told you.

David K - 5-7-2016 at 07:35 AM

Awesome answer Ferna! :light:

mrfatboy - 5-7-2016 at 08:09 AM

It sounds like you don't have to return the FMM (7 or 180 day) but there is an official at the Mexicali border telling/hassling people that they do need to turn it in and is using computer records to track you.

What do we tell or show that guy to prove that we dont really have to turn them in?

The main reason I ask is that last thanksgiving we went down to Gonzaga. For the first time in my life I stopped and got tyres free 7 FMM. The official told us that we had to turn them in. I ignored him and figured he just was not up to date on his own Mexican law. I never turned it in.

When I go down again this year I don't want to get hassled if somebody actually checks the computer records.

On a side note, I bought a 180 FMM a couple of months ago at the TIJ airport. No mention of me not turning the previous 7 day FMM.

woody with a view - 5-7-2016 at 08:25 AM

you've answered your own question. round file them.

SFandH - 5-7-2016 at 08:52 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but you can get your FMM online:

https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

If somebody has already done this or tries it, let us know how it works.

David K - 5-7-2016 at 08:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

you've answered your own question. round file them.

THIS.

How does the Mexicali guy know if you MAILED it in or even turned it in on your way out on the last trip? If they "lost" it, it isn't your fault. Always say you DID turn it in. Now, are they going to turn away tourists wanting to spend money in Mexico over this paper chase argument?

David K - 5-7-2016 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but you can get your FMM online:

https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

If somebody has already done this or tries it, let us know how it works.

A thought...
Just as in the case of buying a prepaid FMM before your trip at the Travel Club, you still must stop at the border INM office to activate the card... so since you are stopping there anyway, what advantage is there to getting the paper before your trip? Maybe a few minutes at best, yes?

23S52N - 5-7-2016 at 09:21 AM

This is my last entry into this thread with the thought that it contains three pages of pure conjecture and opinion by those posting. I have seen no one refer to an official INM document or page to back up what they say. I have searched the VISA sections in the INM website and see nothing more than a simple and straightforward approach to who needs what for how long and in what circumstances. No property ownership is mentioned other than referring to those who require a VISA to enter mexico, and those countries are clearly listed, Canada and the USA don't require one.

Regardless of property ownership: Visitors from Canada and USA staying less than 180 days get an FMM
Those wishing to stay longer than 180 days and less than 4 years get Temporary resident Visa.

I stated that Mexican Immigration law prevented me from getting a Temp Resident visa solely because i stay less than 180 days.

I posted a link earlier on this thread so that you can download a copy of a letter from the cross border law firm that dealt with Rodulfo Figueroa, Head of INM for Baja Norte, who not only states returning the FMM when leaving from Baja Norte is unnecessary, but also gives a phone number for any questioning border agent to contact if they think to the contrary. I have a copy of the letter in my glovebox.

In the end, everyone will do what they want, or have been doing......saludos

sancho - 5-7-2016 at 07:27 PM

How does the Mexicali guy know if you MAILED it in or even turned it in on your way out on the last trip? [/rquote]

As I posted, I was in and out of Mexicali West 3 weeks ago, Imm guy INSISTED I return the 7 day fmm. Did not ask him how to return it is I'm going out of say TJ. I returned it, he stamped the
back of the fmm, and stamped my passport. A couple weeks back on fb, a
guy going in Mexicali West was DENIED a 7 day fmm, had to
get the 180 day fmm, because the Imm Computer showed he had not returned a previous 7 day issued at the same crossing.
Seems very unusual. I had a 7 day fmm from TJ not returned,
they made no mention of it. NO one on this board, Gringo or
otherwise can state with certainty, what an individual Mex Imm
officer will say at a given crossing, except perhaps at TJ. I
don't believe they have to be returned, but the Mexicali
West office has other ideas. Since that is one of the crossings
I use, I will comply, with what appears to be misinformation
on their part, but who is to argue with them?

willardguy - 5-7-2016 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 23S52N

This is my last entry into this thread with the thought that it contains three pages of pure conjecture and opinion by those posting. I have seen no one refer to an official INM document or page to back up what they say. I have searched the VISA sections in the INM website and see nothing more than a simple and straightforward approach to who needs what for how long and in what circumstances. No property ownership is mentioned other than referring to those who require a VISA to enter mexico, and those countries are clearly listed, Canada and the USA don't require one.

Regardless of property ownership: Visitors from Canada and USA staying less than 180 days get an FMM
Those wishing to stay longer than 180 days and less than 4 years get Temporary resident Visa.

I stated that Mexican Immigration law prevented me from getting a Temp Resident visa solely because i stay less than 180 days.

I posted a link earlier on this thread so that you can download a copy of a letter from the cross border law firm that dealt with Rodulfo Figueroa, Head of INM for Baja Norte, who not only states returning the FMM when leaving from Baja Norte is unnecessary, but also gives a phone number for any questioning border agent to contact if they think to the contrary. I have a copy of the letter in my glovebox.

In the end, everyone will do what they want, or have been doing......saludos

well i'll certainly miss your input on this hot button topic! :yes:

[Edited on 5-8-2016 by willardguy]

mtgoat666 - 5-7-2016 at 08:46 PM

My last couple expired fmms I have handed over to immigration when getting new Fmm. They accepted them without comment. I suspect they filed them in file 13, but perhaps they put them in file 11, eh?

surabi - 5-8-2016 at 06:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 23S52N

There is nothing in Mexican Immigration law which states you are not allowed to hold temporary residency (or permanent) if you stay for less than 180 days at a time.

What they ARE cracking down on at some borders are those who come in on a tourist visa, cross back over the border before their 180 days expires, then do an immediate turn-around for another 180 day tourist visa. These folks are actually living in Mexico, but either don't want the hassle of applying for a temporary or permanent visa, or they can't meet the financial requirements. Some of these people have in fact been refused re-entry on an immediate turn-around.

surabi - 5-8-2016 at 06:23 PM

Canadians and Americans coming to Mexico as a tourist get an FMM marked TOURIST, good for 180 days or less.
As someone who held temporary residency for 9 years and now permanent residency for 3, I can assure you that when flying in, EVERYONE must fill out an FMM, unless they are a Mexican citizen.
Again, an FMM is NOT synonymous with tourist visa. It is a migratory document.

mjs - 5-9-2016 at 09:46 PM

Here's my personal experience from this weekend taking a group of MC riders through Tecate. On getting the 7-day FMM the official stated they needed to be returned. Upon returning to Tecate today, we decided to stop at the immigration office and return the FMM. The official scanned and stamped each passport and FMM with an exit stamp. Passport was returned and FMM collected.

So my opinion is that they are trying to keep track of any 7-day FMMs issued since they are free. Fail to return the FMM and you run the risk of being charged for a 180 day FMM on your next visit. Like governments everywhere, they want their money. YMMV

Alm - 5-10-2016 at 12:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

What they ARE cracking down on at some borders are those who come in on a tourist visa, cross back over the border before their 180 days expires, then do an immediate turn-around for another 180 day tourist visa. These folks are actually living in Mexico

Doesn't seem to be their priority.

What I observe is that they are cracking on returns of 7-day FMM, because it is free.

They now issue FMM to everybody (to all pedestrians, anyway), but people could say "7 days" and stay few months for free if INM didn't insist on returning this free FMM.

About 180 day FMM they don't care much because they've got your money already.

SFandH - 5-10-2016 at 01:33 PM

FWIW:

Here's an April 23rd TJ newspaper article saying the 180 day FMM can be used for multiple entries, which, of course, means it does not need to be turned in when you leave Mexico. Also, it only mentions San Ysidro. The information results from a meeting of the San Ysidro Chamber of Commerce president with immigration officials in Mexico City.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldetijuana/notas/n4143185.htm

Backs up info from other sources previously posted here.

Good development for Americans who cross on a daily/regular basis.

[Edited on 5-10-2016 by SFandH]

Sweetwater - 5-11-2016 at 12:08 PM

Time to chip in. I entered through Algodones in March, three of us on motos. As we crossed, the border guard took us to the side to question us on our trip. He then showed us into the office to purchase an FMM with pesos since the exchange rate was so good. We had our 11 day trip and exited through Mexicali. We asked about returning the FMM's and were asked why we would want to bother with that so they have not been returned. Mine is in the file. This has been standard operating procedure for me and the FMM for the past 8 years. I have flown through Mexico City en route to/from Peru and had to fill out forms that were simply collected by the stewardess. Hot button issue, really?

SFandH - 5-11-2016 at 05:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Sweetwater

Hot button issue, really?

I think the issue is the rules are changing, especially at San Ysidro since the building of the new border crossing facilities.

There certainly is a difference between land crossings and airports. Airplane passengers all get FMMs and turn them in.

Right now the rules, or at least the enforcement of the rules, are different at the San Ysidro land crossing, the busiest, for drivers and pedestrians.

The old practice that there is a border zone where FMMs are not required appears to have ended.

It's in a state of flux.

[Edited on 5-12-2016 by SFandH]