BajaNomad - CB Radio Antenna Tune Question

CB Radio Antenna Tune Question

David K - 8-19-2016 at 04:03 PM

In order to communicate with others on our Baja group trips or caravans, I am getting a CB radio (Oh, I was very big into CB in the 1970s.. my handle was "Baja"). TW loaned me one of his CBs on the Pole Line Run last year.

I am wondering if any Nomad in North County San Diego has an SWR meter I can borrow for a few minutes at your place or ?? so that I can tune the antenna? Some CBs have an SWR meter built in, but not the model I am getting... and it seems silly to buy one for one use, right?

I don't have the stuff yet but looks like Fry's has the Cobra models I am considering.

Send me a u2u reply.
GRACIAS!

ehall - 8-19-2016 at 04:12 PM

Around here we have a local shop that takes good care of us. If nobody has a meter maybe you can find a small shop.

David K - 8-19-2016 at 04:39 PM

Thanks Ed, I am sure it will work out.
I can buy one, borrowing seems to make more sense. If a Nomad wants to chat or maybe get an autographed mission history book, it would be nice to share!

bajabuddha - 8-19-2016 at 04:47 PM

Yeah, spending a couple-three hundred bucks on fuel (carbon emissions), a few extra erosion causing ruts on pristine soil, hitting up Costco before you leave; and you can't spend an extra $20 friggin' bucks to give one of your local businesspeople at home a boost for your local economy, prolly hoping they'll spend on your FULL PRICE for some extra-special landscaping expertise?

GO TO A PRO, QUID PRO QUO DAVID. Cheap does as cheap is.

David K - 8-19-2016 at 04:54 PM

Wow, what an odd comment? So, it isn't environmentally friendly to share one product several times vs, use just once...?

I don't understand what pristine soil is about in this context or Costco?

bajabuddha - 8-19-2016 at 05:02 PM

DK, you don't understand a lot of things, Sowwy.

David K - 8-19-2016 at 05:12 PM

Yep, but I try to understand the baffle none the same!
I guess it is because you think what you said means something when in reality nothing you said has a thing to do with my request of borrowing an SWR meter or in any way reflects what I do or how I operate.

LancairDriver - 8-19-2016 at 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Yeah, spending a couple-three hundred bucks on fuel (carbon emissions), a few extra erosion causing ruts on pristine soil, hitting up Costco before you leave; and you can't spend an extra $20 friggin' bucks to give one of your local businesspeople at home a boost for your local economy, prolly hoping they'll spend on your FULL PRICE for some extra-special landscaping expertise?

GO TO A PRO, QUID PRO QUO DAVID. Cheap does as cheap is.

An unprovoked attack for a simple request to Nomads to possibly borrow an item ???Maybe if you could find a hobby or something else to occupy your time you may find a way to eliminate some of that pent up hostility.

Bob and Susan - 8-19-2016 at 06:08 PM

a meter is 13.88 with free shipping to your house

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panel-Dual-SWR-Forwad-Reflected-Mete...

why look all over for one to "borrow"
just give to the owner of the cb when you return it

ncampion - 8-19-2016 at 06:15 PM

David, I have one you can borrow if you can wait a couple of weeks til we head home. Glad you're able to disregard remarks made by low information people on this board. Those kinds of remarks should be taken down immediately by the moderator, they serve no useful purpose.

ncampion - 8-19-2016 at 06:32 PM

I think you'll need the kind with coax connectors, not like this panel meter. The one I have has coax connectors.

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

a meter is 13.88 with free shipping to your house

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panel-Dual-SWR-Forwad-Reflected-Mete...

why look all over for one to "borrow"
just give to the owner of the cb when you return it

larryC - 8-19-2016 at 06:35 PM

I have one but I'm in University city, west end of hwy 52. if you are down here in this area you are welcome to borrow it. I think the Budda has it in for you, probably if he saw you swinging a dead cat over your head he'd criticize you for it. Hope you find one. Meter , not a dead cat.
Larry
PS I used to use CB radios on the road but have since switched over to a marine VHF radio, seems to have about the same range over land as a CB but no antenna tuning problems. I made an extra bracket and just use the one I use my boat.

BooJumMan - 8-19-2016 at 06:44 PM

Hey David I've got one (I just need to find it)... I'm in Encinitas. Let me look this weekend for it. I can just send it to you in the mail if you wanna send it back whenever you're done with it.

David K - 8-19-2016 at 06:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

Thanks, Bob, I am buying a CB and an antenna and that is why I want to tune the antenna for optimum performance and life of the radio. If I was borrowing them, I would imagine the pair was already tuned? I looked at Amazon and other sites and could go into Radio Shack. It is more fun to visit with Nomads, in my opinion than buy something I will use once. However, if I did buy one, I would happily loan the thing so it gets some use. Thanks again amigo!

David K - 8-19-2016 at 06:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC

I have one but I'm in University city, west end of hwy 52. if you are down here in this area you are welcome to borrow it. I think the Budda has it in for you, probably if he saw you swinging a dead cat over your head he'd criticize you for it. Hope you find one. Meter , not a dead cat.
Larry
PS I used to use CB radios on the road but have since switched over to a marine VHF radio, seems to have about the same range over land as a CB but no antenna tuning problems. I made an extra bracket and just use the one I use my boat.

That may be okay? I do come south on weekends, etc. It would be nice to meet you Larry. Thanks...

Quote: Originally posted by ncampion

David, I have one you can borrow if you can wait a couple of weeks til we head home. Glad you're able to disregard remarks made by low information people on this board. Those kinds of remarks should be taken down immediately by the moderator, they serve no useful purpose.

Super nice offer... we missed connecting at the Vista Hot Rod show, so maybe this time?

Quote: Originally posted by BooJumMan

Hey David I've got one (I just need to find it)... I'm in Encinitas. Let me look this weekend for it. I can just send it to you in the mail if you wanna send it back whenever you're done with it.

Super nice (I know there were cool Nomads out there, still!). I would be happy to drive to you (I am only a dozen miles away).

Baja Nomad for the win!

Pent up anger Bajabuddha

John M - 8-19-2016 at 07:03 PM

Geez why don't you chill instead of taking DK to task? Do you deal with all of the issues you encounter in daily life this way? Lucky you, and you must have a grand view of yourself.

liknbaja127 - 8-19-2016 at 07:51 PM

Well said John!

DaliDali - 8-19-2016 at 08:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

DK, you don't understand a lot of things, Sowwy.

You're a dick.......seriously

ehall - 8-19-2016 at 08:56 PM

David if you end up buying one bring it with you on the plr trip and we can check everyone's antenna. Alot of people (me) just buy an antenna and never tune it.

David K - 8-19-2016 at 10:02 PM

The antenna seriously needs to be adjusted otherwise you will have both poor range and risk damaging the radio. An SWR of 2 or under is desired through all 40 channels. You check the SWR on channel 1 and 40. You adjust the height of the antenna so at both extreme channels are below 2.0, ideally.

Ken Cooke - 8-19-2016 at 10:24 PM

I don't believe it! David K is outfitting his truck with a CB radio!! :bounce:

PaulW - 8-20-2016 at 05:23 AM

Doing the same thing except on my Jeep. Here is a ref for ant mount that is more applicable for a Taco than a Jeep. It gives a good review on the NMO mount.
http://www.hamradio.me/antennas/nmo-mobile-antenna-mount-opt...
I am using the nmo on a fender bracket due to the plastic roof on the Jeep. Fender mounts are applicable to just about any vehicle and are little compromised compared to a hole in the metal roof.

TMW - 8-20-2016 at 09:00 AM

I can bring my Bird watt meter if anyone needs to tune their CB on the PLR run.

David K - 8-20-2016 at 09:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Doing the same thing except on my Jeep. Here is a ref for ant mount that is more applicable for a Taco than a Jeep. It gives a good review on the NMO mount.
http://www.hamradio.me/antennas/nmo-mobile-antenna-mount-opt...
I am using the nmo on a fender bracket due to the plastic roof on the Jeep. Fender mounts are applicable to just about any vehicle and are little compromised compared to a hole in the metal roof.

Not drilling a hole in my roof, sorry. The antenna will only be up there for group trips, so not all the time. I don't want to hear the noise of skip and static while driving as I have XM satellite radio, instead. Anyway how do you do "hands-free" driving with a CB or is there a blue tooth option? LOL

David K - 8-20-2016 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The antenna seriously needs to be adjusted otherwise you will have both poor range and risk damaging the radio.

Don't ignore the ground plane consideration. :!:

Yes, with a magnetic mount, I can place the antenna in the center of my large roof ground plane, creating great omnidirectional radiation of my signal. Thank you.

David K - 8-20-2016 at 09:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke

I don't believe it! David K is outfitting his truck with a CB radio!! :bounce:

Well if it was good enough in the 1970's, then it is just fine for the 2010's!

It was just 23 channels when I got involved but soon jumped to 40 with the surge in popularity. We used to add extra crystals to have private channels either above 23 or below 1, back in the day. Oh, and linear amplifiers too... 4 watts just doesn't cut it when skip is in!

TMW - 8-20-2016 at 09:33 AM

If you want better communications use a VHF FM radio like SCORE uses. No static or noise. I have several mobile units at 50 watts but if you only need a handheld for comms like on the PLR trail the Baofeng from Amazon works really good for about $30. Just use the key lockout for those technically challenged.

TW is correct again!

John M - 8-20-2016 at 09:55 AM

The small hand held Baofeng, right out of the box, under 30 bucks, includes an antenna, clear communication, skip free, no SWR meter.

In a group "convoy" situation it works just fine - you cannot, however, get CB channels on it as far as I know.

For the money - this is the way to go.

Model: UV-5R+ on Amazon and elsewhere

This radio also gets the race frequencies, BFG, Weatherman, and most of the rest of them.

John

David K - 8-20-2016 at 09:59 AM

??? Never heard of this before?
The issue is that everyone would need one, and at the moment, everyone on our group caravans has a CB, except me... unless TW loans me his!
I am looking at the Cobra 75WXST as it is small (all in the mike) yet has good reviews and low noise filtration.

TMW - 8-20-2016 at 10:04 AM

DK you are right as far as the PLR group is concerned but having a VHF radio comes in handy for the off road races and the Baofeng is easy to tune for the marine frequencies, ie: rescue services.

Udo - 8-20-2016 at 10:24 AM

I always thought it was easier to buy a long coax and shorten it, rather than shortening the antenna.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The antenna seriously needs to be adjusted otherwise you will have both poor range and risk damaging the radio. An SWR of 2 or under is desired through all 40 channels. You check the SWR on channel 1 and 40. You adjust the height of the antenna so at both extreme channels are below 2.0, ideally.

David K - 8-20-2016 at 10:35 AM

The radio waves leave from the antenna, if the antenna is not matched to the location & radio then the radio signals (energy/ heat) cannot get "out" of the antenna well... that causes a heat/ energy buildup inside then CB's "finals".

Here is YouTube on how to trim the antenna for the lowest SWR reading:

Blue Diamond

John M - 8-20-2016 at 01:07 PM

After trial and error (money spent foolishly) I have found that the Blue Diamond brand, U.S.A. manufactured, cable stretcher to be the best, but they aren't cheap.

I will loan it though.

John

Jack Swords - 8-20-2016 at 04:06 PM

I have found RG-8U to be the best low loss coax with ham radio, but a real PITA when used with a stretcher. Remember, each 3 dB loss is a 50% cut in transmitting power (5 watts becomes 2 1/2 watts). And that 5 watts is input power to the radio, not power out anyway.

rts551 - 8-20-2016 at 04:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John M

The small hand held Baofeng, right out of the box, under 30 bucks, includes an antenna, clear communication, skip free, no SWR meter.

In a group "convoy" situation it works just fine - you cannot, however, get CB channels on it as far as I know.

For the money - this is the way to go.

Model: UV-5R+ on Amazon and elsewhere

This radio also gets the race frequencies, BFG, Weatherman, and most of the rest of them.

John

Exactly. We use a 65 watt radio in the truck for the races and the UV-5R while walking around. Works great...plus you can tune them for marine frequencies while at the beach. Most everyone we know have moved on from CB.

ehall - 8-20-2016 at 04:44 PM

People I jeep with all use marine or race radios too. Cb is 5 watts, marine is 25 watts, race radio 50 plus watts. I have both cb and marine radios installed.

chuckie - 8-20-2016 at 04:52 PM

That's the way to go....Most Farmer ranchers have a base station in the shop, and radios in all the equipment...Side benefit is accessing a repeater and being able to communicate cross country...I bought a Baofung handheld BF F8Hp which also allows me to talk to the cops and monitor emergency service channels. Works fine sitting on the dash of my truck, no external antenna needed...about 55 bucks..Adios CB

PaulW - 8-20-2016 at 04:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

========
David,
No way I would suggest drilling a hole in your roof. Use a fender mount with a proper NMO attached to the fender mount
When the antenna is removed all that is left is the small bracket. The whole front of the vehicle results in a great ground plane.
I would suggest making your own bracket with a small piece of metal. Use the correct screws and it will be strong and removable.
Put the mount between the fender and the hood.

nmo Fender mount.jpg - 52kB

ehall - 8-20-2016 at 06:34 PM

No matter cb, marine, or race radio it's alot of fun when everyone in the group can communicate and make fun of each other.

David K - 8-20-2016 at 06:53 PM

The CB is installed... wired direct to the battery... and I was surprised that I could not hear anyone on any channel the several minutes I had it on and in scan mode. Don't truckers use CB anymore, either? No skip... just static, and set squelch just above static point. See, it's been ages since I used a CB except on the PLR run.
So, next, I will check the SWR of the antenna and adjust if needed. If the antenna is not synced then that would be another reason why I heard no CBers?

[Edited on 8-21-2016 by David K]

KaceyJ - 8-20-2016 at 07:08 PM

DK

CB's are a little passe since handheld uhf/vhf affordably came to market- but they may be an advantage now since in Mex (and everywhere else)you can hear chatter on these latest radio consumer gadgets.

Costco used to sell some Motorola handhelds (pair) for around $60 , got a set threw them into the truck and when we travel with someone else, give them the extra unit.\

They say up to 25 mile range but that is line of sight and without a more powerful or closer (other) signal in between

David K - 8-20-2016 at 07:10 PM

Yes, we bought those Motorola hand helds... very disappointing performance! Should have returned them to Costco! Used them once in Baja, I think.

We got us a convoy?

AKgringo - 8-20-2016 at 07:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

No matter cb, marine, or race radio it's alot of fun when everyone in the group can communicate and make fun of each other.

10-4 good buddy, I got you 5x5! I have been wanting to practice my trucker jargon for years!

Because of a history of self inflicted brain damage, I am a little concerned about all those radio waves bouncing around my skull. I mean, I have seen what punishment we Nomads can deliver over the internet, sharing the same frequency could be scary!

I could wear my aluminum foil hat, but I think it would be a bit sweaty in Baja.

ehall - 8-20-2016 at 08:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

No matter cb, marine, or race radio it's alot of fun when everyone in the group can communicate and make fun of each other.

If the cell phone hasn't completely scrambled my brain I doubt some useless radio chatter will hurt. Haha

willardguy - 8-20-2016 at 08:31 PM

anyone want to take a lighthearted stab at DK's new handle" :light:

bajaguy - 8-20-2016 at 08:41 PM

Mapman

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

anyone want to take a lighthearted stab at DK's new handle" :light:

TMW - 8-20-2016 at 08:49 PM

When I first moved to CA I noticed there was little CB activity from the trucks. Don't know why unless the lack of mile markers. Normal chatter on an interstate in the midwest was like smokey at mile marker 185 etc.

The cleanest CB use I seen in a long time was the last PLR run. I recall little if any noise on the CB radio. AM modulation such as a CB is noisey where the VHF FM units are not. Technically you need an FCC license to use a VHF radio in the business band such as what SCORE is using, That is in the U.S.A. I'm pretty sure it is required in Mexico as well. But because most businesses use cell phones now I don't think there is much enforcement.

FYI Mexico has a really weird allotment system for frequencies. In the U.S. certain bands of frequencies are set aside for various business uses. Police and fire have theirs, businesses like Air conditioning and cabs have theirs and the radio and TV broadcasters have theirs. In Mexico a cab could have a frequency in the same band as the police or government. When I worked at KNSD-TV in San Diego one of our news frequencies was the same as the governor of Baja. They had just been issued it and there was interference so we met in TJ and worked things out, they changed frequencies.

BajaMama - 8-21-2016 at 07:55 AM

We use CB radios for jeep runs in the Sierras, but in Baja just our old cheap motorola handhelds. Did you get it ur CB to connect? My hubby is pretty knowledgable...

David K - 8-21-2016 at 08:44 AM

Yes, the CB and antenna are connected. I just need to get or borrow an SWR meter to tune the antenna. Thank you!

mtgoat666 - 8-21-2016 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The CB is installed... wired direct to the battery... and I was surprised that I could not hear anyone on any channel the several minutes I had it on and in scan mode. Don't truckers use CB anymore, either? No skip... just static, and set squelch just above static point. See, it's been ages since I used a CB except on the PLR run.
So, next, I will check the SWR of the antenna and adjust if needed. If the antenna is not synced then that would be another reason why I heard no CBers?

[Edited on 8-21-2016 by David K]

Truckers still using CB. Last few times I listened, it was definitely not something you want your kids to overhear!

Udo - 8-21-2016 at 10:45 AM

:bounce:

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Mapman

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

anyone want to take a lighthearted stab at DK's new handle" :light:

AKgringo - 8-21-2016 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

anyone want to take a lighthearted stab at DK's new handle" :light:

How about 'Postmaster'? He has over nine posts per day average, that is way ahead of whoever is in second place!

David K - 8-21-2016 at 12:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

anyone want to take a lighthearted stab at DK's new handle" :light:

How about 'Postmaster'? He has over nine posts per day average, that is way ahead of whoever is in second place!

While my CB handle was 'Baja' when I was a teenager, my Nomad name remains my name... When I got on the Internet Baja forums in the late 1990s, I figured there would be a zillion "Baja" this or "Baja" thats, so I chose a more unique moniker.

David K - 8-24-2016 at 08:27 PM

Update:

So Baja Angel bought me an SWR meter off Amazon and it arrived today.

Well, the SWR was high, 2.5:1 on Ch. 1 and 3.5:1 on Ch. 40 (3.0:1 on Ch. 20).

So, bad on both ends but worse on Ch. 40. That indicates the antenna is too long.

Well, no decent metal hack saw or bolt cutters here, but after taking some time, I cut 1/4" off with a (PVC pipe) Zac Hack (6" saw).

The SWR went down to 2:1 on Ch. 1 and 3:1 on Ch. 40. Still too high!

More to cut off, but my wife (who is very mechanically inclined, a tool lady, and former Jeep owner) saw my dilemma and insisted we get a proper cutter... Just came home from dinner and Home Depot...

Stay tuned for the next cut and re-test!

Success!

David K - 8-25-2016 at 06:27 PM

Update #2:

With the goal of the SWR being UNDER 2:1 on both ends of the CB frequency (Ch. 1 and 40)...

Armed with new cutters, I trimmed about a half inch off the bottom of the antenna and checked the SWR.

After the first 1/4" trim yesterday, it dropped to 2:1 on Ch. 1 and 3:1 on Ch. 40.

Today, I trimmed about 1/2 inch and the SWR dropped to 1.4:1 on Ch. 1 and 2.6:1 on Ch. 40.

Another 1/4" snipped and...

1.7:1 on Ch. 1 and 2.2:1 on Ch. 40.

Almost there!!!

Another 1/4" snipped...

1.9:1 on Ch. 1 and 1.9:1 on Ch. 40 and at the center, (Ch. 20) the SWR was 1.3:1

That is the lowest SWR for this antenna.

The CB and antenna are both Cobra.

I now have ears... let's caravan!

The CB is a Cobra 75 WX and the antenna is a Cobra HG A 1000

[Edited on 8-26-2016 by David K]

ehall - 8-25-2016 at 07:43 PM

Good job. It should work perfect for the distances we are apart when offroading.

BajaMama - 8-25-2016 at 08:14 PM

Now that you have the CB fixed, it's time to get a HAM radio!!

David K - 8-25-2016 at 10:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Good job. It should work perfect for the distances we are apart when offroading.

Is there no more skip daily (sun spot activity low)? Used to be very noisy with people shooting skip... CQ DX!
It is very quiet on all 40 channels... No side band either (they used to hang out on 16 and 17)? I heard a couple talking on Ch. 19, and that is all.

ehall - 8-26-2016 at 04:39 AM

I live 5 miles from I-10 freeway and hardly ever hear traffic on the cb. A couple local dump truck guys got some crazy powerful radios I hear occasionally.

Jack Swords - 8-26-2016 at 07:39 AM

F2 Skip is dependent upon the sunspot cycle, however sporadic E skip is mainly a summertime condition and varies somewhat by location. Even in low sunspot conditions sporadic E skip is available. Sometimes sporadic E comes in in late December.

Hams in the VHF freqs use both and meteor scattering, auroral scatter, tropospheric ducting, and even amateur radio satellites to "skip" low power limited-range radios. Some are using moon-bounce to reflect signals. Of course, these are all legal for the ham operator.

Jack, N1IY

David K - 8-26-2016 at 07:54 AM

Thanks, Jack and Ed, so quiet is the norm, like CB in the early 70's before Convoy and everyone getting one. Since then, Facebook and cell phones have taken over as entertainment and communications, I guess?

It was just 23 channels when I first got on (1974)... and we added crystals to get more channels above or below the 23 because it was so crowded on the 23.

mtgoat666 - 8-26-2016 at 10:20 AM

I suppose a cb is useful in the boondocks, but a quaint or geeky anachronism in urban and suburban areas.

on the usa interstates and in urban areas, cell phone talkie, real time traffic maps and apps like waze are 100x more useful than a cb.

[Edited on 8-26-2016 by mtgoat666]

del mar - 8-26-2016 at 11:13 AM

awesome! it'll go nicely with your new compact cassette player! :coolup:

ehall - 8-26-2016 at 12:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar

awesome! it'll go nicely with your new compact cassette player! :coolup:

I do miss my walkman