BajaNomad - self defense and MX justice?

self defense and MX justice?

SlyOnce - 8-23-2016 at 08:45 AM

There have recently been some "home invasion" style robberies at our lovely apartment in Playas de TJ. A guy armed with a knife has broken the door at 5 AM of a terrified neighbor and stole her phone and laptop.

I, and most of the men in the apartment are long gone to work by 5 AM. My wife leaves for her job on the MX side about 5:30.

The very next day outside our very apartment was a confrontation with 2 young people looking like addicts who first claimed to live there (they did not) and changed the story and claimed to be "lost and looking for directions back to the road". The apartment security guy made them leave.

All the neighbors have been terrified and demanded the management to do something, and things have been done (new fence and new night security guard with dog).

However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.

My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.

I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.

Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?

SFandH - 8-23-2016 at 10:31 AM

I'd install an alarm system of some type that activates a LOUD alarm if the door is opened enough to pass through.

A golf club would be better than a hammer, more reach. And perhaps some sort of pepper spray.

I doubt your wife is right about the self defense issue. Ask a Mex lawyer.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/534958289989059/

willardguy - 8-23-2016 at 10:38 AM

would they allow you to install a security screen door?

sancho - 8-23-2016 at 10:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce

My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?

I think it would depend on where one is located, some small
rural village, cops MAY pat you on the back and say nice job,
MAYBE others, like TJ cops, would not be so accommodating.
Did read of some Mex National in TJ, confronting a purse
snatch incident, robber was injured, Good Samaritian got
charged with injuring the assailant, imagine it would be
worse for a Gringo. Talk of guns, hammers, baseball bats,
etc., has to be thought thru. Although the end game is to
protect yourself if threatened. Have read of home robberies,
on another site, a person in another Mex town, not far from
the border, was broken into
3 times in 3 weeks in June, talk of meth addicts is probably
a good call

SFandH - 8-23-2016 at 11:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

would they allow you to install a security screen door?

that's a good idea!

chuckie - 8-23-2016 at 11:24 AM

I smacked a Mexican national with a big rock, as he was stealing tools from my shop. I was told by the polices that if I had injured him, I would be in big trouble...

bajaguy - 8-23-2016 at 01:05 PM

Please put all trash in the dumpster

Lee - 8-23-2016 at 01:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce

Local laws couldn't be any more c0ckeyed. This takes some creative thinking -- out of the box. It's difficult to believe a gringo would not act in self-defense because of laws against his own best interests.

Simply put, no body, no crime.

JoeJustJoe - 8-23-2016 at 01:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce

However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.

My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.

I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.

Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?

Sounds to me is you need a new place to live.

Who sleeps with their front door open even in the states?

Regarding self defense with a hammer. I think that would depend on your age, height, weight, and shape you're in.

If you're over 65 years old and frail, I would say skip using the hammer, and if the home invasion robbers come inside, give them anything they want, because you run the risk of them using the hammer on you.

If it were me, and I lived at your place, and it was really that bad. I would get a small-caliber gun, that's allowed under the Mexican constitution, although I understand there is a lot of red tape. ( you can only have a gun inside your home) Of course, having a gun, you are more likely never to use it in actual self-defense, and you run the risk of a gun accident in your home or apartment, and there is always the possibility, the bad guys will take the gun away from you and use it on you.

I wouldn't worry too much about what the wife says, when she says if someone breaks in your home, breaks down the door, and then you try to defend yourself. According the the wife, it's you that's going to be arrested.

If it's truly a life and death situation, you really shouldn't worry about what happens after, because it's not going to matter if you're dead.

I don't know where you wife gets her information from, but she is wrong or isn't telling the whole story.

You may in fact get arrested in Mexico, killing somebody inside your house, but that doesn't mean you'll be convicted with a legitimate self defense claim.

In Mexico, you have a fundamental right to security and to use legitimate self defense claims. it's also in the United Nations charter, and practiced by most countries in the world.

Now you very well may be arrested in Mexico for self-defense claims, but you might also be arrested in the USA for self-defense claims after killing a suspected robber in your home.

It's only after an investigation by the police, or after the prosecutors look at the case in the US, the charges are dropped after they determine it's a clear case of self-defense. I'm sure, it's very similar in Mexico.

Because I'm distrustful of cops, if I ever shot a intruder inside my house, I would never talk to the cops. The first call would be to my attorney, who would tell me not to talk to the cops.

[Edited on 8-23-2016 by JoeJustJoe]

Howard - 8-23-2016 at 01:35 PM

A few years ago my place was broken into in Loreto. I was up in the USA when all this happened and immediately went down to look at the damage. I notified the police and a detective came out and they took fingerprints. I knew that nothing was going to become of this but I guess I felt better about it.

The well dressed detective who was packing a revolver and I became friendly and he point blank asked and told me the following.
1: "Why don't you get a gun?" I told him I thought that it was illegal for me to have a gun and where would I get one? He said to sneak it down on my next trip.
2: He was most insistent that if I shoot the person and they are outside that I should drag him back in my house or make sure I shoot him in my house.

Well, I wanted no part of the gun scenario for fear of winding up in serious to very serious trouble and opted for a hi powered pellet gun which looks just like a gun and would scare and just hurt any intruder. They even sell the pellets and CO2 cartridges at the local sporting good shop in Loreto.

Anyway, as stated in previous replies to this thread, it just depends on where you are but why take a chance of you being the one in real trouble?

DENNIS - 8-23-2016 at 01:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce

Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?

Just make sure you beat him to death in your home. Worry about the carpet later.

mtgoat666 - 8-23-2016 at 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce

There have recently been some "home invasion" style robberies at our lovely apartment in Playas de TJ. A guy armed with a knife has broken the door at 5 AM of a terrified neighbor and stole her phone and laptop.

I, and most of the men in the apartment are long gone to work by 5 AM. My wife leaves for her job on the MX side about 5:30.

The very next day outside our very apartment was a confrontation with 2 young people looking like addicts who first claimed to live there (they did not) and changed the story and claimed to be "lost and looking for directions back to the road". The apartment security guy made them leave.

All the neighbors have been terrified and demanded the management to do something, and things have been done (new fence and new night security guard with dog).

However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.

My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the he rest of email is just more detail and how they will shut us down in this riding area. I will post more later. I did in fact go up there (but not to problems at the rancho) Looking for new route on North west side. On that side no route as old Baja route,any and all roads trails. Fenced and locked gates,we spent all day up there. Problem rancho also owns all land up to new forestdoor down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.

I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.

Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?

I suggest not attacking unless attacked. Attacking your robber is unlikely to end well, close combat is risky for all involved. . I suggest using pepper spray to momemtarily incapacitate, then fleeing.

Also, sounds like you should move somewhere else. Your windows dont open? Odd.

[Edited on 8-23-2016 by mtgoat666]

DENNIS - 8-23-2016 at 02:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I suggest not attacking unless attacked. Attacking your robber is unlikely to end well, close combat is risky for all involved.

Right on. Make him some coffee and pancakes just to let him know how you understand his need to beat you to death and take everything in sight.

bajabuddha - 8-23-2016 at 03:03 PM

How about :
Just MOVE to a safer apartment?

BajaGlenn - 8-23-2016 at 03:33 PM

I was told years ago the same as Howard in Loreto--and they were just stealing my geo tracker-- if i had i would have launched the boat and buried them at sea--see advertisement for needing new anchor :bounce:

bajaguy - 8-23-2016 at 03:57 PM

Never, repeat never, bring a pellet gun to a gunfight :lol:

Quote: Originally posted by Howard

A few years ago my place was broken into in Loreto. I was up in the USA when all this happened and immediately went down to look at the damage. I notified the police and a detective came out and they took fingerprints. I knew that nothing was going to become of this but I guess I felt better about it.

The well dressed detective who was packing a revolver and I became friendly and he point blank asked and told me the following.
1: "Why don't you get a gun?" I told him I thought that it was illegal for me to have a gun and where would I get one? He said to sneak it down on my next trip.
2: He was most insistent that if I shoot the person and they are outside that I should drag him back in my house or make sure I shoot him in my house.

Well, I wanted no part of the gun scenario for fear of winding up in serious to very serious trouble and opted for a hi powered pellet gun which looks just like a gun and would scare and just hurt any intruder. They even sell the pellets and CO2 cartridges at the local sporting good shop in Loreto.

Anyway, as stated in previous replies to this thread, it just depends on where you are but why take a chance of you being the one in real trouble?

bajabuddha - 8-23-2016 at 04:14 PM

A Lot of talk of guns and pellet guns; a high-powered .177 pellet can kill with a well-placed shot. Also, do you REALLY want to kill a human being? Most braggadocios have never been in the real position. Granted, most wish they could because of bullying or past grievances; but it's a cost not worth carrying the rest of your life. Defense? Hell yes. Protection? Hell yes. Relocation? Hell, yes.

A single night in a Mexicano jail? Hell, NO. More than one night? Easy answer.

SFandH - 8-23-2016 at 05:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

How about :
Just MOVE to a safer apartment?

Of course TJ is a tough town. Playas de Tijuana where Slyonce lives is one of the better neighborhoods. A 5 AM home invasion robbery with a knife is unusual even for TJ. I read online (at least try to read) the local newspaper, La Frontera. Sounds like a desperate addict fighting off withdrawal. A "safe" place in TJ might be hard to find. The private, walled in, gated, guarded communities where only residents can gain access are probably the safest. They're scattered around town, nice houses, rents start at around $1000 per month.

bajaguy - 8-23-2016 at 05:59 PM

Master the Bo

http://www.themartialartsstore.com/product/TC-26-60.html?fe_...

chuckie - 8-23-2016 at 06:15 PM

What a joke....

SlyOnce - 8-24-2016 at 08:02 AM

Well my apartment is private and gated and secured. It is among the nicest in Playas. There is no safer place to move. It is now fenced with chain link and double razor wire and there is a night patrol with a dog. We have had no repeats with the thieves. We have lived there 3 years and this is the first incident. It was interesting that at first management denied it happened, then when the same thing occurred the next day we found out that there had been another (so 3 attempts). All the neighbors got together and demanded action. Then the fence, extra guard, dog, and we also all got parking stickers.

There were some people living in the unfinished apartments, they are now gone.

The woman who was robbed at knifepoint put a big loud alarm.

All the residents met and now at least we all know each other.

Our windows are solid glass and don't open. Most apartments have large sliding glass doors. Ours is a huge wood door. These are the only ventilation.

Police were called and did come on site on all 3 occasions. We live about 1/4 mile to the police station. As this is Playas not Centro or Zona Norte I believe the police are more decent.

I will act to defend myself and my wife if necessary and let the court sort it out. Of course I can always return to the US and they can try to extradite.

chuckie - 8-24-2016 at 10:36 AM

I Cant imagine living in a situation like that. It sounds more like a jail cell than an apartment. To each his own I guess...Good luck...

SFandH - 8-24-2016 at 11:14 AM

A Mexican (lives in TJ) once told me that in Mexico the good people live behind bars and the criminals are on the street. Many homeowners in TJ use razor wire and alarm systems.

The city is full of thieves.

Once I visited friends in Guadalajara and they had chain link over the top of their patio, like a roof, connected to the fence around the yard. It was like a cage.

[Edited on 8-24-2016 by SFandH]

bajatrailrider - 8-24-2016 at 11:56 AM

Have a friend that lives in Baja Malibu.He caught one two legged rata in his backyard. The thief had pry bar to gain access to back door.Home owner gave chase could not catch him.So home owner jumped in car to report at guard shack at entrance. Low and behold the Thief was on ground fighting with guard winning.Home owner steeped in to hold the thief,now fighting with home owner.Home owner black belt one thief knocked out. Police did in fact come,where not happy thief was knocked out. At the scene when thief came true,let the guard/home owner go thief to jail.

JoeJustJoe - 8-24-2016 at 01:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

I Cant imagine living in a situation like that. It sounds more like a jail cell than an apartment. To each his own I guess...Good luck...

To each his own is right.

I think I figured out who Sly Once is. If it's the same guy, trouble always follows him, and that trouble Sly Once gets into...... is interesting to say the least.

I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt, not that he makes up stories, but rather he beats to a different drum than most people, and therefore his perception is different.

I also doubt that he is actually married, unless it happened very recently.

I also hate these kind of piling on threads about the dangers of living in the Tijuana/Playas area.

In my own suburbs in the states, it seems like every third house on my street in the neighborhood was hit by a robbery the last few years. My house was probably only spared, because I have a mean chihuahua dog, and other pets that make would be burglars think twice about breaking in my house.

pacificobob - 8-25-2016 at 07:02 AM

some folks employ the three s' .....shoot, shovel and shutup