The Baja Connection
Did the first Americans make the crossing from Asia by boat? If so, they may have stopped here.
by James M. Chandler
IT ISN'T AN EASY DRIVE from Alberta to Baja California, but Ruth Gruhn and Alan Bryan, archaeologists from the University of Alberta (and husband and
wife), have been making the journey since 1991. The barren desert peninsula is the spot they chose to test the theory that the earliest settlers of
the Americas traveled by boat, not on foot. Their excavations at two rockshelters have yielded tantalizing results. They have found evidence of human
occupation at the early Holocene--about 9000 RCYBP (10,500 calendar years ago)--and they have hopes of pushing dates back even further.
Follow link for the rest of the interesting story--Zac
Excellent! Remeber the post about the student archeologists at Laguna Chapala? Well, here is the story behind it! Great find Zac!Bajaboy - 2-2-2005 at 05:55 PM
DK-I thought you would find this most interesting.
Zac
ps-my mother sent the link to me
[Edited on 2-3-2005 by Bajaboy]bufeo - 2-2-2005 at 06:31 PM
This will be (I just skimmed the surface, 'cause Diana just called and said dinner-corned beef and cabbage-is ready.) a good read. On the surface, it
brings back memories of Thor Heyerdahl.
Thanks.
Want a shock?
yankeeirishman - 2-3-2005 at 08:37 AM
Dr. John Furry (a friend of mine) helped put this book together:
1421 The Year China Discovered America
Go read and see whom did the discoveries of the Americas. Just thought you avid readers would like this book a whole lot.
1421
Hook - 2-3-2005 at 11:27 AM
is very recent history compared to what this article is talking about.
Besides, its clear that the Americas were already populated thousands of years before that, probably by people from the Orient. There are many
similarities in language and customs between some of the "indigneous" peoples of the Pacific Northwest (like the Athabascans) and tribes of the Desert
Southwest. Even their appearances are not unlike.
not a debate
yankeeirishman - 2-3-2005 at 12:22 PM
Dude...it's an add on, to the topic line above, not a debate. Anyone that had read the link, most likely would have had an interest in my link
(amateur archaeologists and history buffs). Isn?t that what the story was all about in reality? Duh. Now go play teacher with someone else?s response.
Who played teacher first?
Hook - 2-3-2005 at 02:38 PM
So, let me get this straight....it's OK for you to make a comment that is several thousand years off from the subject of the original post but it's
NOT OK for me to politely point it out?
I'd say YOUR post was not "...what the story was all about in reality", to quote you.
There was no attempt to debate by me. The irrelevance of your post to the original article makes that unnecessary.
who asked you?
yankeeirishman - 2-3-2005 at 03:46 PM
Who said you were to be the critical editor here? I be happy to debate your little primate brain to the subject of early history, and to the fact that
we all add non related subjects to these posts, at times. 'Lil furry guy?.will you please return to your cage!
[Edited on 2-3-2005 by yankeeirishman]
We're getting too ruffled about this....
Hook - 2-3-2005 at 04:40 PM
......I apologize if you felt offended by my comments.
But I will give your posts a wide berth in the future. I have no interest in engaging a person who resorts to name-calling and questioning persons'
intelligence that they have never met.
No further discussion from me on this. MrBillM - 2-3-2005 at 05:21 PM
While interesting, it doesn't really matter who first set foot here. What matters is who controls it NOW and for the FUTURE.Oso - 2-3-2005 at 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
While interesting, it doesn't really matter who first set foot here. What matters is who controls it NOW and for the FUTURE.
That will change. It always does, sooner or later.
Come on over here.....
yankeeirishman - 2-3-2005 at 06:16 PM
Hook, next time you are in the Campo Ocotillo area (after this year), come see me at the house. We will eat Fish Tacos, shoot the*---* and take our
high blood pressure meds together! Amigos?
Bajaboy
Baja Bernie - 2-3-2005 at 07:24 PM
Zac, I am sure glad those two dudes decided to bury the hatchet. This subject is far to important for a bunch of reasons.
David and Bajalera will vouch for the fact that I have been working on a link between the Chinese and Baja (and the western coast of the US) for some
time. One of the books I have come by is "When China Ruled the Seas--The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne 1405-1433." by Louise Levathes published
by the Oxford University Press. Most interesting read for a ton of reason-- The book mentions a Chinese fleet ( not just a boat or two) reaching the
Phillipines in the 1000AD. Once you reach these island it is a downhill trip to Baja and points south. It also mentions that when the Spanish came
upon the scene they observed ships along the costal waters of Latin America (Pacific) that looked very similar to Chinese sailing rafts that were used
between 1000-1400AD. Another interesting point is that the Admiral of the Treasure fleet was a Muslim.
Please don't attack me for I am only a silly writer who is interested in discovering the truth of what was destroyed by the Spanish when they came
ashore in Baja.
Another book, "Pirates of the West Coast of New Spain"by Peter Gerhard talks about the pirates of England and Holland talking about the natives of
Baja ( quiet differently that the Jesuits) as being large, handsome, well put together, and friendly people.
Who knows-- but if any of you have any other resources please let me know.
Oh! Yes this thread should probably be move to the Literature area.
I would have never thought that I might stumble on this information by taping a thread I had ignored before.
Thank you so much Zac and others.
[Edited on 2-4-2005 by Baja Bernie]
YankeeIrishman,
Hook - 2-4-2005 at 10:30 AM
Yes, of course, olive branch accepted wholeheartedly.
Maybe we can bury the hatchet at Baja Cactus' event, though I am not sure I will make it. But if I do, I would want to be a part of the wagon circle
of campers with Neil Johns and the rest who want to camp. The campers should have Baja Cactus locate us a suitable spot nearby. Not really interested
in camping in town; maybe near the arroyo?
absolute positive
yankeeirishman - 2-4-2005 at 12:50 PM
This is good. Thank you for responding. I at a the last minute asked for a room, due to the wify wants a non "sandy and air'ry site!! So.....can can
get all dressed up and such (in a room), to meet all the folks. She's the boss.....bajalera - 2-4-2005 at 12:57 PM
So here we go again, deja-viewing the Who-Got-Here-First problem. It seems to me that some of the guessers place too much emphasis place on
archaeology per se--and of course on those famous long/narrow-headed skulls that resemble those from Micronesia and Lagoa Santa, Brazil.
The ethnography tends to get ignored. If anybody made it across the Pacific by boat, they'd have to lay in a sizable supply of non-perishable food for
the trip. So in addition to knowing how to build very sturdy boats, they've need to have knowledge of agriculture.
The Pericu at the peninsula's southern end were tall and well-built and all that, but they didn't have boats capable of travel on the high seas,
didn't practice agriculture, had no dogs nor pottery nor textiles. So if their ancestors were trans-Pacific voyagers, a lot of knowledge was somehow
forgotten by succeeding generations.
If people did arrive from the Far East by boat, my guess would be they started out in very ancient times and pretty much followed the coastlines
around from Alaska.
bajalera
bajalera
Baja Bernie - 2-4-2005 at 05:24 PM
Ask a kid in the USA to milk a cow today or any number of things our grandparents knew how to do that are all but forgotten.JESSE - 2-4-2005 at 05:50 PM
I am sure of one thing:
We are not going to figure out who was here first anytime soon.
Oso
MrBillM - 2-4-2005 at 06:11 PM
The fact that who is in control may change at somepoint in the far distant future is not the point. We're here now and in control. Digging up some
bones of John (or Jose) Doe changes nothing. Whoever was here first is DEAD and they don't get anything back. Neither do their ancestors.
OOPs
MrBillM - 2-4-2005 at 06:13 PM
I meant descendents rather than ancestors. Even I make a mistake once in awhile.Dave - 2-4-2005 at 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
David and Bajalera will vouch for the fact that I have been working on a link between the Chinese and Baja
Bernie, here's some proof.
There's a new Chinese restaurant in Primo Tapia and the owner speaks Spanish. Looks Chinese though....Go figure.JESSE - 2-4-2005 at 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
David and Bajalera will vouch for the fact that I have been working on a link between the Chinese and Baja
Bernie, here's some proof.
There's a new Chinese restaurant in Primo Tapia and the owner speaks Spanish. Looks Chinese though....Go figure.
Their food is pretty good, for Primo Tapia standars.Dave - 2-4-2005 at 06:36 PM
Hell, their food is pretty good for Rosarito standards and when you add in the price it's damn good.JESSE - 2-4-2005 at 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Hell, their food is pretty good for Rosarito standards and when you add in the price it's damn good.
I had the Shrimp-Seafood combo for 3 the other day for 18 bucks including tea.
And the little Chinese girl at the entrance is very friendly.Mexitron - 2-4-2005 at 07:49 PM
I suspect the earlier estimates for human occupation of the Americas are right, and probably too conservative....heck, a skull found in Laguna Beach
found by Howard Wilson in the 1930's was later radiocarbon dated at 17,000 years old.Dave - 2-4-2005 at 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
a skull found in Laguna Beach found by Howard Wilson in the 1930's was later radiocarbon dated at 17,000 years old.
Surfer.Nikon - 2-4-2005 at 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
I suspect the earlier estimates for human occupation of the Americas are right, and probably too conservative....heck, a skull found in Laguna Beach
found by Howard Wilson in the 1930's was later radiocarbon dated at 17,000 years old.
Radiocarbon dating was found to be inaccurate in the 1980's because of irregular decay rate. It was correlated to the tree rings of Bristlecone Pines
and subsequently calibrated. So 1930's figures would have been inaccurate. And no, I don't know how much, nor which way.
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by Nikon]Hook - 2-5-2005 at 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
a skull found in Laguna Beach found by Howard Wilson in the 1930's was later radiocarbon dated at 17,000 years old.
Surfer.
How'd they determine that? Was there a bong impression found around the labrum?
First Americans
academicanarchist - 2-5-2005 at 03:50 PM
Archaeologists have also found evidence of early Americans on and off of the Islands in British Columbia.Dave - 2-5-2005 at 04:26 PM
Didn't any of you people go to school?
The first Americans landed at Plymouth Rock. I know this to be true because I have been there and have seen part of the rock.
Their boat was the Mayflower which wasn't a Chinese Junk.
If Americans were from China we would all have funny eyes and be good at math.
Plymouth Rock?
academicanarchist - 2-6-2005 at 07:42 PM
Plymoputh Rock? I always thought the Pilgrims landed in East River.
