BajaNomad - who were the painters?

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/baja/

He said it takes 4 donkeys to visit the rock art. Maybe the climate has dried up some since they did their painting. Is there a way to get gps info without bothering Davidk? I only have a 2 day supply of water. Sounds like a good way to spend a week or three, searching for old old paintings on the rocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG_yt2KxDfE

It is no bother if I have been there. In this case, I have not.

4x4abc - 2-23-2017 at 05:02 PM

I highly recommend seeing the paintings in Cañon San Pablo. Few have been there because most travelers are short on time (how weird is that).
You need a minimum of 4 days from Rancho San Francisco.
A day to get the permit, drive up the mountain, announcing your plans to Enrique the "mayor", time for the guide to round up his animals.
A day to hike down the goat trail to base camp. 6 miles, around 6 hours.
A day to hike to the 2 or 3 major painting sites (Flechas, Pintada, Soledad) and back to base camp.
A day to hike out.

Bring absolutely everything you might need as there are no supplies down in the canyon. Also, you need to provide food and water for the guide(s).

If you don't feel like walking, you can also get a ride on a mule. But be warned - not only will you be sore for at least a week, the mules do not care about what's above their head. They will drag you through the thorny bushes like there is no tomorrow. Get ready to bleed profusely.

The cave paintings are probably the most breathtaking thing you could ever see in all of Baja.

https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Travel/Baja-California-Ma...

joerover - 2-23-2017 at 08:22 PM

the most famous of the paintings way up in the mountains. Sounds like a good trip. How much is a mandatory guide? In the video he mentioned 187? unknown paintings. So there are 100s you can go to alone. I have stumblebunnied onto some old old places in the past.

So, are there any resources to help people find some less popular sights

it's a restricted zone. You can not go explore alone. Guides are mandatory. I tried 20 years ago. Every rancher in a 10 mile radius will keep you from walking alone. In our case rifles were a sure sign. And trust me, they'll find you before you find them.
So, get the proper permits in San Ignacio and arrange for guides in a location f your choosing (Santa Marta or San Francisco)
here is the main cave location: 27°38'17.75"N, 113° 4'11.77"W

4x4abc - 2-23-2017 at 08:42 PM

I forgot how much we paid for the guide and his animals - but it is extremely cheap (like $30 per person for the entire trip)

feel free to find as many caves in Baja as you like - i have found several (untouched with all tools still around)
However, in the area around San Francisco and some areas around Mulege the ranchers will not let walk alone

all locations have been removed from newer maps
you can get lucky with some older maps showing caves

joerover - 2-23-2017 at 09:24 PM

all locations have been removed from newer maps
you can get lucky with some older maps showing caves

Yea, like Yellowstone Park, the older the map the more it shows.

The guide worries me, because I travel alone. 30 x ten people is worth a walk. 30 x 1 me may not get them excited. What does the guide do if you want to sit and think about the paintings for a few hours, wait for dawn for a better photo, etc?

4x4abc - 2-23-2017 at 10:37 PM

1 person, 10 people - they do not care
if you want to contemplate life - they don't care
if you want to wait for "the" light - they don't care
if you want to stay longer - they don't care

they are not as b-tchy as we are

joerover - 2-23-2017 at 10:45 PM

1 person, 10 people - they do not care
if you want to contemplate life - they don't care
if you want to wait for "the" light - they don't care
if you want to stay longer - they don't care

they are not as b-tchy as we are

to good to be true
maybe I should get a spare battery for my camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0E1efv6mLA

[Edited on 2-24-2017 by joerover]

larryC - 2-24-2017 at 07:47 AM

There are lots of sites that you can go to on your own. Here is one I went to with Roger Mears a few years ago. No guides necessary.

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El Camote - 2-24-2017 at 09:30 AM

They did a great job on the documentary and although it's recently released, the interview footage was shot almost 14 years ago. I have to wonder how Harry is doing? Is he still among us?

David K - 2-24-2017 at 09:41 AM

Hi Camote, good to see you!
Harry is (as far as I know today) still with us. He recently did an interview for KPBS' Elsa Sevilla for her San Diego, California history series: http://video.kpbs.org/show/san-diego-historic-places/

Being that we just had President's Day weekend, I was thinking of our great Matomi adventure of 2001. Can you put that film on YouTube?
Time moves by so fast! How about your interview with Harry at the first Pyramid Resort Booksigning event?

wilderone - 2-25-2017 at 10:12 AM

"So, are there any resources to help people find some less popular sights?"
The ranchero guides know this area and will take you just about anywhere within your budget, i.e., daily fees for guide, mules; your equipment and food for all. More days, more food, add a mule to carry it. I don't have personal experience with wanting to dayhike in surrounding areas where the murals are found to explore for more, but with a guide, don't know why that would be restricted.
Get the permit, check in, pack up with your assigned guide. Go for it. It would help if you spoke enough Spanish to make your intentions known and get the most out of your trip (take topo maps, discuss particular canyon sites - "Podemos aqui?") Would be an awesome trip. The guides bring rifles for mountain lions that might attack the mules, you have an extra mule for evacuation (rattle snakes, broken ankle). And they know where the water is.

David K - 2-25-2017 at 11:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

"So, are there any resources to help people find some less popular sights?"
The ranchero guides know this area and will take you just about anywhere within your budget, i.e., daily fees for guide, mules; your equipment and food for all. More days, more food, add a mule to carry it. I don't have personal experience with wanting to dayhike in surrounding areas where the murals are found to explore for more, but with a guide, don't know why that would be restricted.
Get the permit, check in, pack up with your assigned guide. Go for it. It would help if you spoke enough Spanish to make your intentions known and get the most out of your trip (take topo maps, discuss particular canyon sites - "Podemos aqui?") Would be an awesome trip. The guides bring rifles for mountain lions that might attack the mules, you have an extra mule for evacuation (rattle snakes, broken ankle). And they know where the water is.

A few years ago, I made a thread here to rock art locations one can drive to or very short hike to. They were all in the northern state... and include the one shown by LarryC.

KurtG - 2-25-2017 at 03:47 PM

I highly recommend seeing the paintings in Cañon San Pablo. Few have been there because most travelers are short on time (how weird is that).
You need a minimum of 4 days from Rancho San Francisco.
A day to get the permit, drive up the mountain, announcing your plans to Enrique the "mayor", time for the guide to round up his animals.
A day to hike down the goat trail to base camp. 6 miles, around 6 hours.
A day to hike to the 2 or 3 major painting sites (Flechas, Pintada, Soledad) and back to base camp.
A day to hike out.

Bring absolutely everything you might need as there are no supplies down in the canyon. Also, you need to provide food and water for the guide(s).

If you don't feel like walking, you can also get a ride on a mule. But be warned - not only will you be sore for at least a week, the mules do not care about what's above their head. They will drag you through the thorny bushes like there is no tomorrow. Get ready to bleed profusely.

The cave paintings are probably the most breathtaking thing you could ever see in all of Baja.

https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Travel/Baja-California-Ma...

Back in the 90's a small group of us, 8 or 9 as I recall, did the mule ride down into San Pablo. A day in, camped two nights, and a day out. Originally planned to camp 3 nights but had bad weather that delayed us one day. It is a spectacular trip, one that lives vividly in my memory. We had three guides, one of whom was a good friend of the couple who put the trip together. We had pack burros for our gear. The caves are spectacular but even if there were no paintings it would be worthwhile because the canyon and trip in and out were equally spectacular. It was very inexpensive. The ride was a challenge, these are not Grand Canyon style mule trails and we were often leading the mules on some of the more difficult terrain. While I was still a young man in my 50's, it was a physical challenge. I would love to go there again but my mule riding days are over.

David K - 2-25-2017 at 04:29 PM

Kurt, you probably were on El Camino Real, at least some of it. San Pablo and San Francisco were both mission outposts.

joerover - 2-25-2017 at 10:25 PM

A few years ago, I made a thread here to rock art locations one can drive to or very short hike to. They were all in the northern state... and include the one shown by LarryC.

49328 posts could be to many to search through and find that thread. Any chance you can remember where it is. If you are writing a new book, perhaps mr Crosby could be your partnar.

Has anyone walked the el camino real? Does anyone know where it was?

San Borja Mission has a float in the parade at Ensenada today.

[Edited on 2-26-2017 by joerover]

BajaBlanca - 2-26-2017 at 08:33 AM

Gary from Ignacio Springs Inn takes people to see the caves every year.

Phone: 01 615 154 0333

http://ignaciosprings.com/

David K - 2-26-2017 at 09:47 AM

A few years ago, I made a thread here to rock art locations one can drive to or very short hike to. They were all in the northern state... and include the one shown by LarryC.

Yes:

PETROGLYPHS & PICTOGRAPHS you can drive to, or close (in Baja Norte)!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=36856

Mr. Crosby has written many a book, it is a lot of work, I don't wish that kind of work, anymore, on him.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for El Camino Real, again, I have posted many times on its location and included Google Earth images to show where you can see it, south of Santa María to San Javier. Modern construction, including Hwy. 5 right now near Gonzaga Bay has obliterated it in many places.

Howard Gulick, in the early 1950s, documented and mapped El Camino Real from El Rosario south to Loreto: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=77934

Here is my 2010 series on seeing the El Camino Real, on maps and space images, from north to south:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=37019

They are linked together in the posts, as well as all listed on my website, here: http://vivabaja.com/missions2/page13.html

Here is a sample of one of the images in my postings... Jesuit roads just south of San Ignacio:

joerover - 2-26-2017 at 08:50 PM

I think Mr Crosby was the first thing I read about Baja, so long ago, that I forgot. Then There was a book about a guy sent by the US fed to explore Baja back in 1853 or some other year. After he ran out of water, the indians nursed him back to health. Then he reported to the fed it, (baja), was a waste land. So, the fed never tried to claim baja. I still think he lied to help the indians who saved him. Then I found out baja was donkey friendly, so I figured bicycles were ok too.

looks like somebody did all my homework for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmlPHHE7Lo

David K - 2-26-2017 at 09:19 PM

It's what I do. ; )

joerover - 2-26-2017 at 10:16 PM

It's what I do. ; )

keep up the good work.

Baja nomads has improved, we are into the second page and no woodchuckks have ruined the thread

mtgoat666 - 2-26-2017 at 11:02 PM

It's what I do. ; )

keep up the good work.

Baja nomads has improved, we are into the second page and no woodchuckks have ruined the thread

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I have not seen woodchucks in baja, but I have seen a badger.
I am not aware of paintings of badgers.

El Camote - 3-5-2017 at 01:00 PM