BajaNomad - Where the border fence meets the sea, a strange beach scene contrasting the U.S. and Mexico

Where the border fence meets the sea, a strange beach scene contrasting the U.S. and Mexico

GypsyJan - 9-5-2017 at 12:15 PM

From The Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-ti...

wilderone - 9-7-2017 at 09:12 AM

"one side is oddly festive, the other dire and militaristic"
Sensationalized, ill-informed BS. One aerial photo of the area would depict the story. Not so strange - Border Field SP beach is the southern-most west coast beach in the USA, and which is among the most contaminated coastal zones in the state. It is a flood plain, agriculture acreage, estuary where raw sewage and garbage flows. Immediately south of the border fence (the “festive” side) there are densely populated neighborhoods and the beach is lined with residences; this end of the beach up to the border is their major seaside recreational beach for those 146,000 residents; There is absolutely no reason for Southern Californians to use this beach for recreation (other than horseback riding, the occasional surfer, birding) when there are many clean beaches closer to where the San Diego County residents live.
[and]
This has been derided as our ugliest state park – not an official designation, mind you, since beauty is so subjective. But it quantifiably is one of the least attractive, as in, attracting people to visit.
Only 57,000 people visited Border Field in fiscal 2012-13, according to state parks records. But, says San Diego park district superintendent Clay Phillips, that’s a 25 percent increase over the previous year.
Part of the problem is its location. To get to this sandy, swampy 400-acre site at the farthest southwest corner of the continental United States, you take Exit 2 off Interstate 5 and follow a winding road that gets progressively more cracked and bumpy as you go. When you finally hit the entrance gate, you almost always find it closed. A sign informs that the road into the park is open only Saturdays and Sundays and, even then, it’s often still padlocked because the road is flooded. [… ] So, most days, you really gotta want to visit and be up for hoofing it. That means a half-mile jaunt on a dirt path to the ocean….

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/entertainment/living/travel/sam-mcmani...

[and]:

Now uninhabited, the Border Field area was once a major Native American settlement from which there are still many prehistoric remains. There are also historic trails believed to be from the Portola expedition and the California missionaries. On the Mexican side there is a vibrant neighborhood with several significant cultural resources from the twentieth century. The Plaza Monumental bullfight ring (90,000 square meters and 22 meters high), which is the second largest in the world, is just in front of the park and next to the beach. There is also a lighthouse, the international division monument, several vernacular restaurants, residential homes, and a smaller park that borders with the Border Field Park and the beach. The two parks were built to celebrate the friendship between the two countries.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/entertainment/living/travel/sam-mcmani...

And of course, on the US side the natural environment is somewhat preserved to serve the 370 species of birds and flora and fauna, and serves as a study area for native ecology of this type.

Where the U.S. Meets Mexico, a Surfer-Artist Is Making a Statement About the Absurdity of Borders

Lee - 9-7-2017 at 09:53 AM

In Border Field State Park, on the beach where San Diego and Tijuana meet, a fence made of poles placed a few inches apart, stretches from the sand into the water, extending just past the surf break. Artist Diego Palacios saw this border for the first time on a surf trip “I was aware of how it mirrored my Mexican-American identity,” he says. Surfing there has been strange and usually solitary for him. “The experience is like nothing I've ever done,” he says. “There exists an emotional heaviness that comes and goes.” While it's still illegal to cross from one “side” to another, there’s no tangible difference between the waves and, once you’re beyond the wall, no barrier.

“I am of course literally between the United States and Mexico, between the sea and land,” he reflects. “But I am also between surveillance and freedom and the history of natural migration and colonialization.”

http://www.laweekly.com/arts/surfers-on-the-us-mexico-border...

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2017 at 09:58 AM

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2017 at 10:03 AM

many of us have forgotten that most of us are here because our poor ancestors came here in steerage class....

SFandH - 9-7-2017 at 10:51 AM

Google map of the area. Street level views are available.

https://www.google.com.mx/maps/@32.5345924,-117.1131789,1269...

BajaTed - 9-7-2017 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

many of us have forgotten that most of us are here because our poor ancestors came here in steerage class....

With all due respect, a little more context is needed.

We (of poor ancestors) are also awaiting a pardon from the 10,000,000 native american indians we performed genocide upon.

Sweetwater - 9-7-2017 at 01:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

many of us have forgotten that most of us are here because our poor ancestors came here in steerage class....

With all due respect, a little more context is needed.

We (of poor ancestors) are also awaiting a pardon from the 10,000,000 native american indians we performed genocide upon.

Context is individual and somewhat relative. Both sets of grandparents legally immigrated to the USA 100 years ago. They carried no ill will or animosity towards Native Americans nor the US system. They believed in freedom and justice as well as needed the opportunities the US provided. Since then, things have evolved in a decidedly twisted fashion. However, I'm sure they never condoned or supported genocide since that was part of their motivation to come to North America. We is an overly broad application, just as respectfully.

SFandH - 9-7-2017 at 01:54 PM

There was a news segment on KPBS radio earlier today about the TJ river estuary.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2017/sep/07/tijuana-estuary-endures...

It was mentioned that TJ is completing this November an 8.4 million dollar project to improve the city's sewage treatment system.

There's an International Boundary Water Commission (IBWC) meeting in Imperial Beach tonight to address the forever TJ River problems.

aguachico - 9-7-2017 at 02:04 PM

Know your history.
Native American Indians were excellent warriors, decimating and destroying other tribes long before Europeans landed in North America. Had the Europeans not been the better warrior, their fate would have been sealed.
Hence we won the war, get over it.

As for how our ancestors arrived... My ancestors would have loved to upgrade to steerage.

Border Wall. Thank God for it.

Lee - 9-7-2017 at 02:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

Know your history.
Native American Indians were excellent warriors, decimating and destroying other tribes long before Europeans landed in North America. Had the Europeans not been the better warrior, their fate would have been sealed.
Hence we won the war, get over it.

As for how our ancestors arrived... My ancestors would have loved to upgrade to steerage.

Border Wall. Thank God for it.

Jesuit education through university level. Nothing like this in any books I've read. There must be evidence supporting your claims. You wouldn't shoot from the hip like some others here.

Oh. How's that wall working out for ya? Think DACA is a bad idea, do ya?

Beagle - 9-7-2017 at 03:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

I know mine in the west. We got lucky with sheer numbers, several harsh winters, us killing off their food supplies, lying and deceiving, oh...and chemical warfare (diseases). Better warriors we were not. Not by a long shot.

I don't know how my ancestors got here but I was born here by dumb luck.

bajabuddha - 9-7-2017 at 03:34 PM

Yeah, we had better warriors, like the other orange-haired idjit, George A. Custer. At least he served his country.

SFandH - 9-7-2017 at 03:47 PM

Did you ever hear the story about the young Indian buck that goes into a w.horehouse and says to the madam:

"Me wantum woman!"

The madam asks:

"Do you have any experience?"

And.......................well, stop by the beach compound this winter for the rest. Bring some beers.

[Edited on 9-7-2017 by SFandH]

TMW - 9-7-2017 at 04:24 PM

Life has always been the survival of the fittest. He who has more toys in the end wins. Quit whining get educated and get a job.

DENNIS - 9-7-2017 at 04:34 PM

Oh. How's that wall working out for ya? Think DACA is a bad idea, do ya?....Lee
==============

Great idea. It was putting it in place with Executive Order that wasn't so good. Presidents arn't there to make laws. That's a job for Congress. Presidents are there to enforce those laws.

[Edited on 9-7-2017 by DENNIS]

Adding Fuel to the Fire

GypsyJan - 9-7-2017 at 04:55 PM

From The New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/08/world/america...

aguachico - 9-7-2017 at 06:56 PM

After multiple trips to US immigration, I have more respect for the LEGAL then ever before.

Entering my country illegally should never be an option. Stop rewarding cheaters.

Don't blame the USA, blame Mexico.

BajaTed - 9-7-2017 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS

Oh. How's that wall working out for ya? Think DACA is a bad idea, do ya?....Lee
==============

Great idea. It was putting it in place with Executive Order that wasn't so good. Presidents arn't there to make laws. That's a job for Congress. Presidents are there to enforce those laws.

It was only an executive memo to the head of DHS and the republican congressional resolution one month later that they didn't like it was the response, both sides wanted to win in 2012.

[Edited on 9-7-2017 by DENNIS]

mtgoat666 - 9-8-2017 at 05:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

After multiple trips to US immigration, I have more respect for the LEGAL then ever before.

Entering my country illegally should never be an option. Stop rewarding cheaters.

Don't blame the USA, blame Mexico.

I don't blame people for xing border for work. They gotta do what they gotta do. If you feel compelled to assign blame, then blame the gringos that hire illegals. They are in a position to hire legal but choose not to, they make the market.

The children that came here "illegally" have today known no other county, so they are as a American as any other kid born here. It is just cruel to threaten to deport them. These kids deserve opportunity and status here as much as any kid born here. Any person against DACA and dreamers, or against compassionate/inclusive immigration law, is just a cruel mother flocker and unamerican.

[Edited on 9-8-2017 by mtgoat666]

pauldavidmena - 9-8-2017 at 06:26 AM

Most of my ancestors emigrated from Spain to Puerto Rico during the 19th century. 3 of my 4 grandparents were born in Puerto Rico but moved to the U.S. in the early 20th century. Then, one day in 1917, they became instant U.S. citizens - and immediately eligible for the draft during WWI. Not a "typical immigrant story".

My maternal grandfather was born in the Philippines during the Spanish-American War. His mother was a young Filipina, but his father was a U.S. sailor, making him an American Citizen. He came to NY via boat as a teenager and enlisted in the Navy in time for WWI. Also not a typical immigrant story, making me wonder if there really is such a thing.

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by pauldavidmena]

DENNIS - 9-8-2017 at 06:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

The children that came here "illegally" have today known no other county, so they are as a American as any other kid born here. It is just cruel to threaten to deport them. These kids deserve opportunity and status here as much as any kid born here. Any person against DACA and dreamers, or against compassionate/inclusive immigration law, is just a cruel mother flocker and unamerican.

All true and correct, but there's a proper way to go about it. Immigration control doesn't cease to be an issue for moral reasons.

David K - 9-8-2017 at 08:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

Why haven't they (or the ones worried) made any attempt to become legal American citizens during any of the years they lived here?

If they are children still, are not the parents at least a tiny bit concerned about their children's ability to stay in the U.S. and do something to get them legal status?

Every other nationality has done so, why do some in the U.S. feel the need to exclude Mexican citizens from the law? That seems to me a bit insulting to Mexicans living here as if saying they are not able to become American citizens as every other nationality has done who wants to live here.

SFandH - 9-8-2017 at 08:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Why haven't they (or the ones worried) made any attempt to become legal American citizens during any of the years they lived here?

As far as DACA recipients are concerned, their parents brought them to the United States illegally, when they were children. Currently, you can't be in the United States illegally and apply for legal status. It doesn't work that way. That's called amnesty. But it has been done before, Reagan did it.

I would like to see DACA recipients given a path to citizenship. My opinion is it's the right thing, the American thing, to do.

Adding the 800,000 DACA recipients would increase the population by about 0.25%. Only one-quarter of one percent.

BTW, DACA applies to all nationalities, not just Mexicans. Over 1/2 the illegals entered the US legally with some sort of temporary visa but never left. So there are many nationalities.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber...

Reagan's amnesty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

[Edited on 9-8-2017 by SFandH]

BajaTed - 9-8-2017 at 09:54 AM

So is the deal gonna be DACA for the dems and E-verify as the law for all new employees nationally for the other guys??

Stinks for both sides, so must be good ????

JoeJustJoe - 9-8-2017 at 11:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

Under the current new immigration guidelines, that now favor limited English speaking white immigrants, you would have to be a fool now to wait in line to come to the US, because your chances now will be nil.

Even the previous immigration guidelines were pretty much unfair to Mexicans immigrants, without money, high levels of work skills, or without family already in the USA, stood a low chance of winning the USA immigration lottery. Screw that!

If you have a hungry family, and unemployed in Mexico. I say you come to the USA any way you can, papers or no papers. There are plenty of jobs here that are relativity high paying, and the USA still makes it easy to live and work here in the US, with papers or no papers.

The talk of walls, and taking a hard stance against Mexican immigrants will probably stop in a few months, because of DACA overreach, which will probably cause a backlash to the current racist administration.

BajaBlanca - 9-8-2017 at 12:00 PM

Well, someone mentioned Indians and I just finished the most extraordinary book about life on a ranch right on the border of USA and Mexico in the 1880s.

A BEAUTIFUL CRUEL COUNTRY written by Eva Antonia Wilbur-Cruce chronicles her young life. She wrote the book in her 80's! Foir those of us who have both Spanish and English vocabulary knowledge, the book was really beautiful as she uses so much Spanish throughout.

Incredible insight into discrimination against anyone who was Indian or Hispanic and to the mass exodus of Indians forced onto a reservation.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/1998/02/04/110398-obituary/

aguachico - 9-8-2017 at 08:44 PM

I'm no fool. OK un poco. :cool:

What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border. Stop butt-kissing PAC that are pro illegal immigrant. Being illegal in this country is a crime and it affects everyone.

You have to stop the slave trade before you can create a good policy. You can't save everyone. You can't let everyone in. Once the flow of illegal aliens is stopped, then create an immigration policy that's fair.

If Mexico gets immigration preference, so what, at least it is documented. Within the country of Mexico you have people attempting to gain lawful citizenship @~~$200 a pop and tourist visa's into the USA. Why is it OK for someone to cheat and sneak across?

It isn't.

There no logical argument to justify breaking the law when you have others obeying the law. You can sit in margaritaville and argue this until you are blue in the face, but you are wrong.

I have seen the affects of illegal immigration full circle. My opinion is based on knowing those that have succeeded and had to return. Those that have tried and failed and those that have tried to do it legally. Some have succeeded, most do not.

The only way to fix it once and for all, is to close the holes first. Otherwise 20 years from now nothing will have changed.

DENNIS - 9-9-2017 at 09:08 AM

Mexico's second largest source of income, behind oil. They will fight to the end to keep the flow going south, largely from a demographic that wouldn't qualify for legal status.
Mexico isn't fighting in the ring because they love their people. They're the cause of the people's problems to begin with. They just want their money in their economy.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/02/10/51417267...

SFandH - 9-9-2017 at 09:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.

Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas via land crossings, airports, and ship terminals and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses. And of course, there are ladders and tunnels.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 9-9-2017 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.

Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by SFandH]

Hitler
Mussolini
McCarthy
Le Pen
Bin Laden
Trump

The nationalists rise by telling the ignorant sheeple that their problems are all due to foreigners, minorities, people unlike you.
All bigots eventually get overthrown when humanity triumphs over evil.
But people are stupid herd animals, so if one bigoted nationalist movement gets beaten down, the dumb sheep will again be buffaloed by the next populist charlatan.

Trump is a monster, but will be lynched like all monsters are eventually lynched.

DENNIS - 9-9-2017 at 10:12 AM

The alternative to a wall [of sorts] will be boots on the ground. What will be your choice then?

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 9-9-2017 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by aguachico

What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.

JoeJustJoe - 9-9-2017 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Yeah how funny, Aguachico, and other Trump, followers, seem to have no idea, that most undocumented Mexicans aliens, don't jump the fence to come to the USA, but instead simply overstay their visas.

Even Trump, told Mexican President, The Border Wall is the least Important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important."

It's just red meat, for the GOP voters.

The Mexican President Peña Nieto, then told Trump, "My position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall,"

aguachico - 9-11-2017 at 05:14 AM

Over 50%?

Ok, I would be happy starting with the other 49%. The cost of an efficient secure border is not my issue. I work for a living. I expect my government to secure the border to foreign invasion.

Period.

Whether I live in San Diego or OCCUPIED AZTLAN. <-- and I don't have a clue .

All the other methods of entrance can be easily controlled.

prayers to the victims of 9-11-2001.