BajaNomad

Dirt bike essentials?

John Harper - 9-25-2017 at 05:03 PM

My buddy just got a 2007 XT225 Yamaha. We were wondering what you should carry on his bike for tire repair? Trying to help him put together a simple tool kit. What about tire inflation and deflation? Are there dirt bike tire plugs? Do they still use rim locks? OK, I did have a RM250A Suzuki, but years ago.

I just helped him service his bike. I noticed how his bike has three large nuts that could easily be designed the same size. Drain plug 19mm, Spark plug 18mm, crankshaft nut 17mm (for valve adjustment). WTF? Could not make them the same size??? At least a 19mm spark plug?

They could have made the valve adjuster covers with a 19mm hex too. Who thinks about minimal service tools? Crappy engineers for sure.

John




[Edited on 9-26-2017 by John Harper]

BajaGeoff - 9-25-2017 at 05:05 PM

Run bib mousses instead of tubes and you won't have to worry about changing out flats on the trail...

John Harper - 9-25-2017 at 05:18 PM

Okay, thank you.

I'll check those out. Obviously been out of the dirt bike loop for way too long.

John

StuckSucks - 9-25-2017 at 05:32 PM

THE PLUSES AND MINUSES OF THE BIB MOUSSE

John Harper - 9-25-2017 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
THE PLUSES AND MINUSES OF THE BIB MOUSSE


From what I read, not really that much of a solution. Look forward to other options.

Just trying to help my friend out, he has a place in Green Valley Lake and there are lots of FS roads all over the place.

John

[Edited on 9-26-2017 by John Harper]

willardguy - 9-25-2017 at 05:51 PM

ultra HD tubes W/slime.....hope for the best;)

on edit.....do what Larry (bajatrailrider) says!

[Edited on 9-26-2017 by willardguy]

John Harper - 9-25-2017 at 06:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  

on edit.....do what Larry (bajatrailrider) says!


Look forward to his response. I've heard of using Ride On as well. Similar to Slime.

John

motoged - 9-25-2017 at 07:47 PM

If you are asking basic tires/tubes questions....you really shouldn't be slagging engineers for designing a bike that needs more than a hammer and crescent wrench to service it :biggrin: .

My experience is that Ultra heavy duty tubes (HD will suffice) and a long wearing set of tires with strong sidewall construction....Slime (tube type....not tubeless type Slime [yes, there is a difference], three tire irons, good bicycle hand pump (short), patches and fresh rubber cement tubes (2 of them)....and know how to do the
change .

Front tires at 14-16 lbs...12-14 rear.....and for the soft deep sand riding....10-12 lbs front and 8-10 lbs rear.

Opinions will vary when "talkin tars" :lol:

Now, for the oil to use.......

MulegeAL - 9-25-2017 at 08:46 PM

IMHO HD tubes for such a light bike are overkill and an SOB to fix in the field. A bike as light as a 225 don't need 'em. They can adversely effect the handling of light bikes too. Ged (above) needs them 'cause of the bike he rides and his style of riding, he demands a lot more from his tires than most riders.

Carry a new front, two or three medium length smooth-surfaced steel tire irons, a couple of patch kits. Fronts can work on the rear for such a small bike.

And a pump. The best off road pump I own is a Truper, get one at a mex hardware store. Metal valve stem covers that can remove/replace the stem core. A temp field sidestand thingy for changing the rear, or get used to R & R with bike on its side.

All this stuff should be in a tail bag bolted to the bike with a strong flooring for the bike, such as plywood or plastic, and strapped down to keep it from moving. Baja back roads will beat the hell out of anything on the bike, esp this coming season after the hurricane swept up the spine of the peninsula.

Shade. I carry a space blanket for multiple uses, like shade in the desert to work on bikes.

Where are you going with this thing? East/west or north/south (on 2.3 gallons of gas)?

Best: just slow down and dodge the baby heads to avoid pinch flats, and take your time picking good lines on mountain pasos, that is where most baja sharp rocks are.

Have fun, see you in baja!

WestyWanderer - 9-25-2017 at 08:56 PM

I recommend the mousses. I run a pit for the reigning Score pro motorcycle champion and the team runs mousses front and rear wrapped with Michelin desert race tires which last longer than any other tire they have used. Two years ago at the Baja Sur 500 the team ran the entire race on one Michelin desert race tire and one mousse and won the pro class by 15+ minutes. We usually change the rear tire every 150-200 miles based on the terrain with any other tires.

I also went to mousses for my personal bike because I was tired of fixing flat tires and am very happy with them.

It sounds like your buddy is a very novice rider/motorcycle mechanic. With that being said I am confident that he/she won’t feel the difference between a mousse and a tube but they will definitely enjoy not having to attempt fixing flat tires.

Michelin desert race tires:
http://www.motosport.com/product/?adpos=1o3&cc=us&cr...



[Edited on 9-26-2017 by WestyWanderer]

ehall - 9-25-2017 at 11:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by WestyWanderer  
I recommend the mousses. I run a pit for the reigning Score pro motorcycle champion and the team runs mousses front and rear wrapped with Michelin desert race tires which last longer than any other tire they have used. Two years ago at the Baja Sur 500 the team ran the entire race on one Michelin desert race tire and one mousse and won the pro class by 15+ minutes. We usually change the rear tire every 150-200 miles based on the terrain with any other tires.

I also went to mousses for my personal bike because I was tired of fixing flat tires and am very happy with them.

It sounds like your buddy is a very novice rider/motorcycle mechanic. With that being said I am confident that he/she won’t feel the difference between a mousse and a tube but they will definitely enjoy not having to attempt fixing flat tires.

Michelin desert race tires:
http://www.motosport.com/product/?adpos=1o3&cc=us&cr...



[Edited on 9-26-2017 by WestyWanderer]


Wow those tires are expensive. How long are the mousse's lasting on your personal bike? 1 tire, 2 tires 3? Been thinking about trying them out. need 1 more inconvenient flat to push me over the edge to spend the money.

basautter - 9-26-2017 at 04:50 AM

I use Maxis IT Desert tires with heavy duty tubes and slime. I have yet to get a flat with over 5000 miles in Baja, but bring an extra tube and tools to change a tire anyway. The basic tool set that came with the bike is a good start. I add additional tools that I have needed on the trail. Foam inserts are also quite common, but the XT 225 is a mild bike so you probably won't need them. Your call here. Have fun!

John Harper - 9-26-2017 at 06:10 AM

Thanks for all the input. My buddy rides up in the San Bernardinos, and it looks like pretty rough terrain as well. The advice on tires is good to know too, thank you!!

I've been wrenching on cars and bikes for almost 45 years now, so I'm showing him what to look for and (try to) be prepared for. As for oil, I have plenty of debate over on my Sportster forums, I'm sure it's the same over here.

I'm running M1 in my tranny and Castrol 20/50 in my engine on the Sporty.

John

TMW - 9-26-2017 at 09:35 AM

As to an air pump I duct taped a bicycle pump to the rear swing arm. Also duct tape several large tie wraps to the from fender. If you get a flat you can't fix tie the tire to the rim so it won't come off. Always carry a spare tube and patches. Don't use soft sidewall tires for Baja riding.

willardguy - 9-26-2017 at 09:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
As to an air pump I duct taped a bicycle pump to the rear swing arm. Also duct tape several large tie wraps to the from fender. If you get a flat you can't fix tie the tire to the rim so it won't come off. Always carry a spare tube and patches. Don't use soft sidewall tires for Baja riding.


or....you could leap into the 80's and use CO2 cartridges!

KurtG - 9-26-2017 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MulegeAL  
IMHO HD tubes for such a light bike are overkill and an SOB to fix in the field. A bike as light as a 225 don't need 'em. They can adversely effect the handling of light bikes too. Ged (above) needs them 'cause of the bike he rides and his style of riding, he demands a lot more from his tires than most riders.

Carry a new front, two or three medium length smooth-surfaced steel tire irons, a couple of patch kits. Fronts can work on the rear for such a small bike.

And a pump. The best off road pump I own is a Truper, get one at a mex hardware store. Metal valve stem covers that can remove/replace the stem core. A temp field sidestand thingy for changing the rear, or get used to R & R with bike on its side.

All this stuff should be in a tail bag bolted to the bike with a strong flooring for the bike, such as plywood or plastic, and strapped down to keep it from moving. Baja back roads will beat the hell out of anything on the bike, esp this coming season after the hurricane swept up the spine of the peninsula.

Shade. I carry a space blanket for multiple uses, like shade in the desert to work on bikes.

Where are you going with this thing? East/west or north/south (on 2.3 gallons of gas)?

Best: just slow down and dodge the baby heads to avoid pinch flats, and take your time picking good lines on mountain pasos, that is where most baja sharp rocks are.

Have fun, see you in baja!


All good advice. We had a xt225, they are about indestructible as far as the engine goes. Keep any kind of good oil in it and it will live pretty much forever. The most important thing is knowing how to do tire and tube repair. Practice at home before you do it in the field. While the 225 is a lightweight it is very rugged, ride it within it's limits and have fun.

TMW - 9-26-2017 at 11:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
As to an air pump I duct taped a bicycle pump to the rear swing arm. Also duct tape several large tie wraps to the from fender. If you get a flat you can't fix tie the tire to the rim so it won't come off. Always carry a spare tube and patches. Don't use soft sidewall tires for Baja riding.


or....you could leap into the 80's and use CO2 cartridges!


That is true as long as you have enough.

motoged - 9-26-2017 at 01:07 PM

If you fly, you can't carry CO2 cartridges....not that the OP was flying

willardguy - 9-26-2017 at 01:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
If you fly, you can't carry CO2 cartridges....not that the OP was flying



not yet....some FMF gear he'll be doing clickers off the tabletops!

motoged - 9-26-2017 at 01:32 PM

That's one way to"get air"....did it two days ago on my 690 when I hit a "decommission ditch" on a logging road going 45 mph....five-seven feet across and three deep....certainly bottomed out and I was about two feet above my seat and way over the bars looking down at the front of the front tire.... very close to kissing it....but made it.

Worst surprise ditch ever....:wow:

MulegeAL - 9-26-2017 at 07:12 PM

Ha! I "found" one of those waaay out on the western cape past Bahia de Tortugas. Pulled the biggest bunny hop ever on a XR600. Saw front knobs like you say.

Did not want to go back to town that way!

willardguy - 9-26-2017 at 07:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MulegeAL  
Ha! I "found" one of those waaay out on the western cape past Bahia de Tortugas. Pulled the biggest bunny hop ever on a XR600. Saw front knobs like you say.

Did not want to go back to town that way!


that would be the dreaded "flying uve doble" :lol:

bajatrailrider - 9-27-2017 at 09:26 AM

My two cents my last wr450 07 to 14 48,000 dirt miles baja. ultra hd tubes .Not all are the same msr tubes not ultra even that they say they are. The real ones 4 mil thick. As far as Johns riding slow easy 230f or tt225. I run 4 mil thick tubes on all my 20 off road bikes. On my highly moded 230fs 4mil thick tubes as well at 6psi. With Mt43 tire long lasting great trail tire. For you go fast guys on dirt roads yes on Maxxis tires,but poor tire for slow hard trail. For John wanting a tt225 or crf230f both have very poor susp. With just a revalve rear shock or other shock.The 230f is way to go. Also hundreds of up grades easy to get. Bibs did not work for me great for racing ,but every week riding no go for me.

BigBearRider - 9-27-2017 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
My two cents my last wr450 07 to 14 48,000 dirt miles baja. ultra hd tubes .Not all are the same msr tubes not ultra even that they say they are. The real ones 4 mil thick. As far as Johns riding slow easy 230f or tt225. I run 4 mil thick tubes on all my 20 off road bikes. On my highly moded 230fs 4mil thick tubes as well at 6psi. With Mt43 tire long lasting great trail tire. For you go fast guys on dirt roads yes on Maxxis tires,but poor tire for slow hard trail. For John wanting a tt225 or crf230f both have very poor susp. With just a revalve rear shock or other shock.The 230f is way to go. Also hundreds of up grades easy to get. Bibs did not work for me great for racing ,but every week riding no go for me.



What ultra thick 4 mil tubes are you using?

bajatrailrider - 9-27-2017 at 01:39 PM

Bridgestone Other good ones Moose Ultra and any 4 mil thick tube. I do know MSR not to use as they call it Ultra but it is not.

WestyWanderer - 9-27-2017 at 10:37 PM

Ehall, sorry for the delay in responding. I am on my second tire with my mousse and it’s holding up well. Factory Honda used to have a specialty grease that they would use when installing the mousse, helped to dissipate the heat and make the foam insert last longer. Michelin has gotten their hands on some and is trying to replicate it because the other options on the market now are no where near as good (that’s all info coming from a top desert racer who used to ride for factory Honda). Until Michelin can make their grease better any of the stuff on the market will work. I’m a huge fan of mousses and will forever ride with them. Everyone has a preference, but if mousses are good enough for the top racers in Baja then they are more than good enough for me.

Yes those Michelin desert race tires are super expensive. I don’t run those for that reason, but that’s the set up the team I pit for runs. Helps to get free tires from sponsorships. Sponsorships aside though, they are the longest lasting tire we have ever used.

bajatrailrider - 9-28-2017 at 02:47 PM

I need comment on the bibs yes good for top racers. Problem is 99.9 we are not top racers. My bibs lasted 6 months extra work to take apart re grease. After 6 months they shrink then take apart again put cut piece of tube on top bib as filler. Way too much work for me that rides every week. Another dislike for me on Bibs we ride hard trail up hill Ed can tell you about this. If I cant make it I let the air out and make it. Bib no airing down. As I said racers or go fast guy on dirt road great. Not to Argue just my thinking.

ehall - 9-28-2017 at 04:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
I need comment on the bibs yes good for top racers. Problem is 99.9 we are not top racers. My bibs lasted 6 months extra work to take apart re grease. After 6 months they shrink then take apart again put cut piece of tube on top bib as filler. Way too much work for me that rides every week. Another dislike for me on Bibs we ride hard trail up hill Ed can tell you about this. If I cant make it I let the air out and make it. Bib no airing down. As I said racers or go fast guy on dirt road great. Not to Argue just my thinking.



I was thinking they would be great if I ever tried to ride the entire peninsula of Baja. One less thing to worry about. Larry you get to ride twice as much as anyone I know. Lucky guy.

bajatrailrider - 9-29-2017 at 02:12 PM

AHHHH but I hurt twice as much also. On ride to tip lots of pavement riding good place to destroy bib. I would love to put bibs on spare wheels for going over cactus needles. When I had bibs they said don't use rim locks. HIMMMM tire spinning on rim in mud and water. Took apart put two rim locks back in that worked. Bibs have there place but not in my world.

rich t - 10-4-2017 at 07:39 AM

I have been running the tubliss system for 5 years in Baja with great success, if you get a flat plug it with a regular tire plug and run 10-12 pounds of air, have also been running the maxxis desert IT. The tubliss part takes 100-110 PSI so you need to carry a high pressure bicycle pump. For more info do a search on "Tubliss".

ehall - 10-4-2017 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
AHHHH but I hurt twice as much also. On ride to tip lots of pavement riding good place to destroy bib. I would love to put bibs on spare wheels for going over cactus needles. When I had bibs they said don't use rim locks. HIMMMM tire spinning on rim in mud and water. Took apart put two rim locks back in that worked. Bibs have there place but not in my world.



You ride too much to use bibs. If they last 2500 miles that's a full year for me but only a couple weeks for you. LOL I wish I had time to put the miles on. You are right about bibs and pavement, seems they get pretty hot.

TMW - 10-4-2017 at 09:11 AM

I seem to remember years ago someone came out with what was called a blue moose tube that was suppose to be better on the hwy, it didn't heat up as much.

KasloKid - 10-4-2017 at 10:23 AM

We helped a rider out at Coco's Corner a few years back. He was pre-running and for about 8 miles rode with a flat. He was probably doing a high rate of speed...... It took us the better part of an hour to scrape the melted mousse off of the rim in order to put a tube in.

PaulW - 10-4-2017 at 06:32 PM

What happens if you add air to the tire with the mousse still in place?

MulegeAL - 10-4-2017 at 07:54 PM

I've seen 3 tubliss setups fail on bikes that came into M. Usually because of a sheet metal screw or nail that poked a hole in the tubliss unit. So far as I know, such failures are not fixable in the field.

I helped a couple of them get setup with tubes and on they went.

[Edited on 10-5-2017 by MulegeAL]

motoged - 10-4-2017 at 09:20 PM

Tubes are simple and inexpensive...works for me.

del mar - 10-4-2017 at 09:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
My two cents my last wr450 07 to 14 48,000 dirt miles baja. ultra hd tubes .Not all are the same msr tubes not ultra even that they say they are. The real ones 4 mil thick. As far as Johns riding slow easy 230f or tt225. I run 4 mil thick tubes on all my 20 off road bikes. On my highly moded 230fs 4mil thick tubes as well at 6psi. With Mt43 tire long lasting great trail tire. For you go fast guys on dirt roads yes on Maxxis tires,but poor tire for slow hard trail. For John wanting a tt225 or crf230f both have very poor susp. With just a revalve rear shock or other shock.The 230f is way to go. Also hundreds of up grades easy to get. Bibs did not work for me great for racing ,but every week riding no go for me.


mucho gracias Larry! :yes: