BajaNomad - Missing Yucca Plants

After riding up in forest and Rancho Meling area. There are many new bull dozer roads going nowhere. They are at it again may not have any Yucca plants left. Simi truck loads hauled off this has been going on for 3 years then came to stop. Was told made into meds sent to Japan. We have seen this as far as El Rosario. Any truth Meds sent to Japan from Yucca.

In the USA the harvesting from public land is regulated so it is sustainable. I don't know if harvesters in Mexico are following sustainable practices. I hope so, but...

ehall - 5-1-2018 at 04:28 PM

I highly doubt it. Wonder how old the ones being cut are.

Paco Facullo - 5-1-2018 at 04:32 PM

Sad enough to make a grown Man cry .......

blackwolfmt - 5-1-2018 at 04:33 PM

Sad to hear BTR,, I was reading they use it for arthritis A powder made from the Root, between the yucca and totoaba the SOC & Peninsula doesn't stand a chance :no:

AKgringo - 5-1-2018 at 04:50 PM

There is 'sustainable yield', and then there is 'get it before someone else does'. It probably doesn't even take a very large payday before greed trumps responsibility.

bajatrailrider - 5-1-2018 at 04:51 PM

We are still riding soon as I get time post pictures with David. Of the 30 or more new roads They plowed this time alone one goes round trip past Hot Spring rancho. Maybe pasable with 4X4 how do the Mexicans do it lots of wrecked trucks I think.

mtgoat666 - 5-1-2018 at 07:59 PM

Are the mehlings doing the raping? Or poachers?

Mexitron - 5-1-2018 at 08:22 PM

The Yuccas being harvested (Yucca schidigera I think) are a sustainable harvest as they are cutting the trunks but leaving the base to regrow, albeit probably 20 or 30 years in that environment to regain their height. Hadn't heard of Agaves being harvested, that's a little dicier for sustainability depending how its done. I have seen the flowers cut off every now and then like the picture shows but by ranchers for their cattle to eat in lean times.

John Harper - 5-2-2018 at 05:54 AM

I saw the same thing out at Mike's Sky Rancho two weeks ago. We hiked up the arroyo to Rancho Las Truchas, and walked the road back to Mike's. Several bulldozed roads that looked fairly recent, just circled out and back. I was telling my buddy earlier in the day that as a kid up in Fillmore we had made soap from the yucca roots one time,

I asked Manuel at Mike's and he said for soap and sent to Japan. My Spanish was not good enough to pick up if he said meds from the yucca but he definitely mentioned "jabon." My buddy's jaw dropped cause he figured I was making up the story about yucca soap.

That must explain the cultivated fields on the way out to Mike's from Ensenada. I wondered about them last year when I drove out there.

So very sad to see, what a waste of a precious beauty.

John

[Edited on 5-2-2018 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2018 at 06:23 AM

I saw the same thing out at Mike's Sky Rancho two weeks ago. We hiked up the arroyo to Rancho Las Truchas, and walked the road back to Mike's. Several bulldozed roads that looked fairly recent, just circled out and back. I was telling my buddy earlier in the day that as a kid up in Fillmore we had made soap from the yucca roots one time,

I asked Manuel at Mike's and he said for soap and sent to Japan. My Spanish was not good enough to pick up if he said meds from the yucca but he definitely mentioned "jabon." My buddy's jaw dropped cause he figured I was making up the story about yucca soap.

That must explain the cultivated fields on the way out to Mike's from Ensenada. I wondered about them last year when I drove out there.

So very sad to see, what a waste of a precious beauty.

John

[Edited on 5-2-2018 by John Harper]

Yucca is a source of saponins. It’s a foaming agent, used in many products, not just soap. For example, it’s in root beer.

When I was a kid we made root beer. We did not add foaming agent.

the root beer float is one of the top 10 deserts of all time :bounce:

motoged - 5-2-2018 at 08:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

.
.....the root beer float is one of the top 10 deserts of all time :bounce:

....and Key Lime pie is on that list.... :coolup:

sorry for the hijack...

TMW - 5-2-2018 at 10:16 AM

Very interesting, when the Squarecircle and I did the trip to the San Isidoro Visita there were piles of Yucca at the turn off. I never really gave it much thought other than thinking it was for fence post.

bajatrailrider - 5-2-2018 at 12:35 PM

They most be getting good money Bull dozers/diesel fuel/ hauling dozers up there to work. Making new roads workers/feeding them/ paying off any ranchos that they work on. A old Mexican man told me. Us Mexicans are good at destroying our natural resource. There is a new maze of roads around Hot spring rancho that blocked off main route of travel. 1 Month ago on motos we found new road to bypass his fence. Now we know as 15 side roads cut from it. Road was not made to by pass Rancho was made to get more yucca. Must of peeed off the brother of Rancho that fenced off main route. Joke on him nothing he can do about it as not his property. Still sad for me no need for 15 more dead end roads with no Yucca. As far as are the taking them and protecting new growth you bet they are.

John Harper - 5-2-2018 at 01:36 PM

I was wondering how they got a dozer all the way out to Mike's without someone being aware of it. I don't really know what the ownership of the land is out there, maybe Mike's "ranch" is not that big?

John

David K - 5-2-2018 at 03:01 PM

Then region on an old Auto Club map. The hot spring ranch is Valladares, south of Meling Ranch and Concepcion is the former Baja Dark Skies Inn...

[Edited on 5-2-2018 by David K]

bajaguy - 5-2-2018 at 03:12 PM

Wonder if PROFEPA (Federal Attorney for Environmental Protection) or SEMARNAT (Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources) in Ensenada is aware of this???

https://www.gob.mx/atencion/

https://www.gob.mx/semarnat

John Harper - 5-2-2018 at 04:15 PM

I stopped on the way out of Mike's at the area I think was the old landing strip. I'm not really sure cause it did not look like the satellite view I expected. Of course, neither did the arroyo.

There were some signs saying it was a natural area under restoration, not sure the exact wording. So, some environmental attention has been on this area. Maybe I should contact someone? A little late now, but maybe they can find these scumbag's dozer and disable it.

John

bajaguy - 5-2-2018 at 04:20 PM

John....ever read the Monkey Wrench Gang???......a classic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang

A little late now, but maybe they can find these scumbag's dozer and disable it. John

David K - 5-2-2018 at 04:34 PM

I stopped on the way out of Mike's at the area I think was the old landing strip. I'm not really sure cause it did not look like the satellite view I expected. Of course, neither did the arroyo.

There were some signs saying it was a natural area under restoration, not sure the exact wording. So, some environmental attention has been on this area. Maybe I should contact someone? A little late now, but maybe they can find these scumbag's dozer and disable it.

John

Mike's first airstrip was to the south, at Los Encinos, it was crooked!

Mike's New Runway was to the north, along the road to Hwy. 3...

Once the government mandated the military at all airports and required great sums of money from airport owners, Mike closed the airport. Nearly all of his business was no longer flying in, anyway. Still called a "Sky Ranch" however.

bajatrailrider - 5-2-2018 at 05:43 PM

There all on the take just trace the money they look the other way.

John Harper - 5-3-2018 at 05:51 AM

Mike's first airstrip was to the south, at Los Encinos, it was crooked!

Mike's New Runway was to the north, along the road to Hwy. 3...

David, that's exactly where I stopped, perhaps I didn't walk east enough, or it's well overgrown now.

John

David K - 5-3-2018 at 08:07 AM

Which one John, I showed both airstrips Mike's Sky Rancho used? The second (lower) one (above) is 6 miles north of the rancho, alongside the road to Hwy. 3.

John Harper - 5-3-2018 at 02:05 PM

I stopped at where I thought the north airstrip was located on our way out of Mike's. I noticed it on Google maps but it looked different than I expected.

We just hiked, camped, and fished from Mike's up to Rancho Garate (Las Truchas) then hoofed it down the road back to Mike's for a much needed cold Pacifico late in the day. That's when I saw all new roads cut.

John

[Edited on 5-3-2018 by John Harper]

David K - 5-3-2018 at 02:33 PM

10-4, the New (in 1985) airport, north of Mike's.

The road south from Mike's to El Coyote and Meling's is really for trail bikes and rock crawler 4x4s, maybe. Too bad, as it sure makes for a nice loop drive if they run a dozer over it again. Have done that road many times, in the past (2005, 1978, 1974, 1972).

2005 Trip; photos and road log: http://vivabaja.com/905/

John Harper - 5-3-2018 at 03:31 PM

10-4, the New (in 1985) airport, north of Mike's.

The road south from Mike's to El Coyote and Meling's is really for trail bikes and rock crawler 4x4s, maybe. Too bad, as it sure makes for a nice loop drive if they run a dozer over it again. Have done that road many times, in the past (2005, 1978, 1974, 1972).

2005 Trip; photos and road log: http://vivabaja.com/905/

Yes, some pretty rough spots, especially near the upper creek crossing, looks like an almost vertical drop, easy rollover spot. My buddy who was with me has a lifted 4WD Tacoma back home and he said he would not do that road. Dirt bike, no problem. I may even bring one out next year to ferry a few bags of trash back to Mike's. The arroyo had several bad spots of diapers, beer bottles, and cans. So sad.

Personally, the less people up that road the better for the arroyo, and the rare trout. They're barely hanging on now. Glad there's another way to El Coyote.

John

[Edited on 5-3-2018 by John Harper]

bajatrailrider - 5-3-2018 at 05:51 PM

HAAA that route Ed Hall went a short ways in his Jeep smart man turned went back. On dirt bike good rider yes fun weak rider hand full. From that road there is a old road going up to Forest just about 4 /5 miles above park office. For last 25 years that I Know only passable on Moto very hard route need skilled riders. Your can not come out on paved road up in park as of many years ago. Still fun to ride up the views unreal go back the way you came. Maybe you have the route on one of your Maps David. The road was destroyed by flood in late 70s or early 80s. For any hikers would also be great route. Don't know where you would go at bottom walking. Spend the night at Mikes then walk back next day.

David K - 10-25-2018 at 10:44 AM

The 2018 Trail of Missions tour (Ford Raptors mostly) ran the road out of Mike's to Meling and showed it on their TV special last Sunday... They needed spotters in one section and a lot of scratched rocks from dragging the underside of the trucks over this road.

shari - 10-25-2018 at 11:12 AM

Wow....I had scroll back up to see who posted this...gotta say Bajaguy...you were the last guy I would have imagined...hahahaha... :lol:

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

John....ever read the Monkey Wrench Gang???......a classic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang

those yucca trunks are also used in bird cages for nesting. They rot away pretty quick so I think its OK to use them and if cut right, the baby offshoot plants continue on....and lets not forget they were used as Xmas trees in our area....the top part with the branches.

JoeJustJoe - 10-25-2018 at 12:28 PM

What hypocrisy, about some Nomads, crying about some Yucca threes being cut down, and are not even on any kind of endangered list.

Oh but when a Mexican, environmental group, complains, about the Baja 1000, charging courses and trampling on protected areas of Valle de los Cirious, and El Vizcaino, and actually destroying endangered plants, and doing all kinds of other damages, that's OK, and just Mexico, trying to get bribes from the American sponsors of the race.

The American bias is many times unhinged on this Baja site.

ehall - 10-25-2018 at 05:31 PM

The 2018 Trail of Missions tour (Ford Raptors mostly) ran the road out of Mike's to Meling and showed it on their TV special last Sunday... They needed spotters in one section and a lot of scratched rocks from dragging the underside of the trucks over this road.

That didnt look to me like the road to dark skies that Larry is talking about. It looked like the road directly behind Mike's headed towards coyote. Better get us a map. Lol. Or email Cameron and ask him.

freediverbrian - 10-25-2018 at 07:41 PM

If SCORE was behind it it's ok because they bring so much to Baja😉

David K - 10-25-2018 at 08:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Larry's post from last May?
I wasn't responding to it Ed, I just wanted to mention the normal south road was on the Trail of Missions show... It is the most direct road to Rancho Meling from Mike's and yes, it goes right by El Coyote. I was on it last year, but I had my rear brake failure about 3-4 miles from El Coyote heading to Mike's, so I turned around and limped back. Larry was there with a group of riders. So, between his advice, his vise grip pliers, and some rubber tube from Michael Diogo, I could get home.

ehall - 10-25-2018 at 08:13 PM

Thanks buddy. Got it.

TMW - 10-26-2018 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Ed the road to Dark Skies is to the left when you cross the water going into Mike's from Highway 3. It's about 6 miles to a junction where you turn left and follow that to Dark Skies for about another 5 or 6 miles.

Skipjack Joe - 10-26-2018 at 10:28 AM

‘Harvesting’ the landscape - outrageous.

ehall - 10-26-2018 at 11:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Yep. Took it a couple miles back to an off camber spot that was completely washed out. Maybe a foot or so of road left next to the cliff. Had to back up a 1/4 mile to turn around.

bajatrailrider - 10-26-2018 at 04:15 PM

Don't need to worry anymore the yacca rapers have put another 25 roads in
Just below the park what a mess . We saw all on our Moto ride.

John Harper - 10-26-2018 at 05:09 PM

Don't need to worry anymore the yacca rapers have put another 25 roads in
Just below the park what a mess . We saw all on our Moto ride.

And to think I just read a big article in the LA Times today on how Mexico has done such a fantastic job with the sea turtles.

Since you can easily grow these plants commercially, it's even sadder that wiping out native populations continue. Not to mention the visual blight of access roads left behind, at least until the next big fires. The roads I saw upstream from Mike's mostly flattened down the chaparral, at least that can grow back eventually. Still, pretty flocked up.

John

[Edited on 10-27-2018 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 10-26-2018 at 05:54 PM

The problem with resource extraction industries (mining, logging, yucca, etc) is they just look at the cost/return for today. They only think: “will cost to bulldoze roads allow me to clear cut vegetation and pay for me and the wife/kids to vacation in Barcelona this summer?”
They don’t care about sustainability. They figure they can truck their bulldozer to another virgin parcel next year.

mtgoat666 - 10-26-2018 at 06:00 PM

There used to be a rancher with a bulldozer who maintained the roads in that region... I was told by Michael D. Too bad Mike Leon Jr. doesn't maintain them or at least repair the washouts after the rains. His father made all the roads in and out of the Sky Rancho in the late 1960s and kept them up.

Perhaps The guy with the bulldozer makes best money working for drug growers and yucca rapists, eh?

Do land owners make best money growing pot? Who knows?

Perhaps bad roads are a way to keep,military from inspecting fields of drug growers, and running a “ranch” or hotel for knuckledragging gringos is just a cover for illicit activities? Who knows?

Human nature is driven by greed, it never surprises me the depths of depravity that joe six pack is capable of!

[Edited on 10-27-2018 by mtgoat666]

John Harper - 10-27-2018 at 05:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Do land owners make best money growing pot? Who knows?

Perhaps bad roads are a way to keep,military from inspecting fields of drug growers, and running a “ranch” or hotel for knuckledragging gringos is just a cover for illicit activities? Who knows?

Ahhh, the old conspiracy theory raises it's ugly head.

When I was out at Mike's last April, fly fishing (is that also knuckle dragging?) I observed that Mike's makes damn good money just as a hotel. They told me they had 127 beds, $70 a night per bed. Assume the place is full 15 nights a month (estimate of 50% occupancy) and you have $1.6 million per year. Not too shabby. That's not even counting alcohol sales (especially during races). A lot easier business than avoiding criminal charges. See Occam's Razor.

I did not find any water pipes along the creek (3-4 miles of exploring), except the one that serves the hotel.

I thought you were more concerned with the "false flag" operation by Democrats to send bombs to their own leaders? :lol:

John

JoeJustJoe - 10-27-2018 at 08:03 AM

I have to agree with the Goat. I don't think a motel or rental ranch could survive just catering to off road types, and hikers, unless they supplement their income in the backwoods with such things as marijuana growing. ( nothing wrong with doing that)

John, where are you talking about Mike's? Do you mean the supposedly famous, Mike's Sky Ranch, that's a haven for dirt bikers and off-roaders? If so they only have 27 rooms, and I doubt it's full 15 days of the month.

I don't care how much they charge for their over priced rustic rooms with no TV, and limited electricity.

It's always a bad sign when you search on a site for a motel, and they don't list their prices, but you see things like they charge on a per person basis, and there are a lot of package deals have involve Mike's Sky Ranch.

I see things like warrior packages, that for four days for $2000 dollars, that includes three or four days at Mike's Sky Ranch, that includes pick up from San Diego, and some type of motorcycle packages, bikers, uniform including elbow pads, but I was unclear if the motorcycle rental was included or if that was another $60 dollar a day charge.

It's shocking what some tour companies get away with charging.
__________________

Oh yeah, no false flag operation, it's a real MAGA bomber, and typical Trump, follower,

[Edited on 10-27-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

John Harper - 10-27-2018 at 09:07 AM

It's obvious Goat and JJJ have never been to Mike's Sky Rancho. I'm pretty sure there are more than 27 rooms, but there are multiple beds in some rooms. You also get dinner and breakfast for your $70. Either way, I've hiked the streambed for miles and there are no "growing" operations in that terrain, it's actually quite rugged. But, if you two want to fantasize about "criminal activity" who am I to stop you.

John

TMW - 10-27-2018 at 11:21 AM

I think Mike Jr. is only interested in the road in from Hwy 3 and the road to El Coyote. That's where people come from to stay over night or to stop by for a drink. The road out toward Dark Skies has always been a little rough and has been used as a SCORE race course. When Mike and Pamala bought the property they closed off that part of the trail because people using it left trash all over. So they closed the road and locked their gate.

The last SCORE race did a loop up Simpson hill then toward El Coyote using the cut over now used. It turned east about 2 miles from El Coyote running back to the Dark Skies jct. then to Mikes and out to Hwy 3. I believe it was the 2004 Baja 1000. Simpson hill was really bad with stuck cars and trucks. But the real nightmare was a hill east of El Coyote that cars and trucks got stuck on and nobody got thru for hours, some stayed overnight and had to be pulled out.

JoeJustJoe - 10-27-2018 at 11:29 AM

No Harper, I never been to Mike's Sky Ranch," but I know the type of places where you are often greeted at the door by a scorpion, but no big deal, as long as you can get it out. It looks like a typical Baja motel, except it's even more remote than the others.

Now I'm beginning to think maybe you never been to Mike's Sky Rancho," because many places say the motel, has only 27 rooms, not 127 rooms, which would make it a monstrosity, in the middle of nowhere.

I also see Baja occupancy rates from time to time, and in some years it's reported below 70% which is probably really only 50% of pubic rates, although things have improved, and on certain holidays, occupancy rates are close to 100% in many parts of Baja.

If Mike's, is charging $70 dollars, they are price gouging, when a room like that should only be $25 dollars tops, but seeing it's in the middle of nowhere, and sometimes races are happening. I guess they could charge whatever they want.

Maybe, you're counting the separate beds and camping spaces to get over 127 rooms.

Maybe, you missed the possible clandestine drug operations, during your hikes? Perhaps, if you stumbled upon such an operation like that, you would not be here today?

Here is a post from many years ago about an alleged robbery attempt by gun point near Mike's Sky Rancho:
________

ROBBED AT GUNPOINT IN BAJA

This is late - but is worth repeating. While riding dirt bikes to Mike's Sky Rancho on Saturday Dec. 14 at 2PM, on an old Baja 500 race course in the pine forest south of El Rayo and northeast of Heroes de la Independencia, I was robbed at gunpoint by 3 masked men. Myself and 2 friends were headed from Rancho Santa Veronica to Mike's Sky Ranch on dirt bikes. We were on the dirt road that heads south in the vicinity of Pino Colorado. From this road, I believe it was the 2000 Baja 500, the old race course turned off south (right) and made it's way via the Rancho Candolfi road to Hwy 3, crossing Hwy 3 at KM 77 at Cerro Colorado. It was on this section, which is nearly impassable now except for motorcycles, that we encountered a stack of burned tree branches blocking the trail. My immediate thought was that the trail was was washed out ahead and this was a warning. We dismounted the bikes, when 3 men wearing dark clothing and full ski type masks (wool stocking with holes cut for eyes and mouth) came running out of the bushes screaming with a rifle, shotgun, and a very long (12") knife (probably a machete). They fired the shotgun into the ground in front of us and screamed "Money, money, money!!" They forced us on our knees with our hands up, pointing the weapons directly at us - they were extremely agitated.

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/robbed-at-gunpoint...

bajatrailrider - 10-27-2018 at 12:39 PM

Mt and Joe just Baja nomad blow hards. Mike's and melings make honest living. Your both clueless.

JoeJustJoe - 10-27-2018 at 01:23 PM

JoeJustJoe, is accurate above all else.

Mike's Sky Rancho," has only 27 rooms, and if you''re charging $70 dollars, for a room with no TV, and no electricity, besides what the generator gives you for a few hours.

I would say you are being taken advantage of. I have stayed in four star hotels for $70 dollars, in the off season in some countries, the same this dump charges.
________________________

Mikes Sky Ranch is a remote resort located 80 miles; south east of Ensenada, Baja off Hwy. 3 on the north western edge of the San Pedro de Martir national park, over looking Arroyo San Rafael Mountains. Named after its founder Mike Leon, Mikes Sky Ranch is a long time haven for dirt bikes, off-roaders and it has served as a checkpoint for the Baja 500 and Baja 1000 off-road races. Mikes Sky Ranch established in 1967 includes 27 rooms with hot showers. There are also areas for RV's and campers. The cost includes full access of the relaxing pool, recreation areas, horseback and meals, which are served family style (campers will have to pay extra for meals). There is also a well stocked bar, just remember that at the Ranch cash is king. Nearby enjoy hiking trails, trout fishing, waterfalls and hundreds of trails perfect for ant off-road enthusiast. The road to Mikes Sky Ranch can be rough in some parts so it is recommended that you have a SUV, truck or any type of vehicle that offers some ground clearance. Mike sky Ranch can get cold at night, so plan ahead especially if you decide to camp.

https://www.mexbound.com/mikes-sky-ranch/

John Harper - 10-27-2018 at 01:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

No Harper, I never been to Mike's Sky Ranch," but I know the type of places where you are often greeted at the door by a scorpion, but no big deal, as long as you can get it out. It looks like a typical Baja motel, except it's even more remote than the others.

Now I'm beginning to think maybe you never been to Mike's Sky Rancho," because many places say the motel, has only 27 rooms, not 127 rooms, which would make it a monstrosity, in the middle of nowhere.

I also see Baja occupancy rates from time to time, and in some years it's reported below 70% which is probably really only 50% of pubic rates, although things have improved, and on certain holidays, occupancy rates are close to 100% in many parts of Baja.

Well, I guess someone stole my truck, because here it is at Mike's:

As for a scorpion ridden fleabag motel, you couldn't be further from the truth. It's a gem in the wilderness, you really should visit at least once. And, it was packed on a weekday evening both times I've been out there.

It's actually a very large place, don't let ignorance blind you. The pool is drained down for winter, not neglected.

I'll give you a point for my possible error in number of rooms. I'm just repeating what I was told. I'm pretty sure there are more than 27 rooms today, the place has expanded since 1967. Let's say 127 beds. My $1.6 million number was based on number of beds, not rooms. I based my number on a 50% occupancy rate all year. 127 beds x $70 x 15 days x 12 months. You can do the math, can't you?

Bajatrailrider is right, I'm debating fools.

John

[Edited on 10-27-2018 by John Harper]

JoeJustJoe - 10-27-2018 at 01:40 PM

Harper, the only thing that photo shows me is that somebody owns a cheap 2000 Ford, Ranger, with California plates, who was parked in front of Mike's Sky Rancho."

I don't know a hotel/motel in the world, that lists the number of beds they have instead of the number of rooms. However that Mike's is a weird place, where they charge a per person rate for the rooms. So what's that for two people in the room $140 dollars?

BTW, if that is your truck, it's not ever a good idea to publish your personal information on the internet, especially if you like to travel.

bajatrailrider - 10-27-2018 at 01:41 PM

Poor bastard Joe never been there but talks garbage.

willardguy - 10-27-2018 at 01:46 PM

Poor bastard Joe never been there but talks garbage.

pathetic isn't it...... :no:

JoeJustJoe - 10-27-2018 at 01:58 PM