BajaNomad

EPN to Trump: ‘Mexico will never pay for a wall’

GypsyJan - 5-31-2018 at 07:45 PM

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/epn-to-trump-mexico-will-ne...

ElCap - 5-31-2018 at 07:54 PM

Gotta love Vicente Fox's tweet!

Paco Facullo - 5-31-2018 at 07:57 PM

"The U.S. president told a campaign rally in Nashville, Tennessee, that Mexico will pay for the wall “in the end” and like it."

Isn't that kinda the same thing as sayin' " I'm gonna do you up de poop-shoot, and "in the end" you're gonna like it ???????

dtbushpilot - 5-31-2018 at 09:33 PM

They're already making payments. Has anyone noticed the companies leaving MX and reinvesting in the us, the peso to dollar exchange? The renegotiating of NAFTA? Trump never said they would send a check every month with "wall payment" in the memo box. Yes, Mexico will pay for the wall, probably even before it is built...

Paco Facullo - 5-31-2018 at 09:43 PM

Ya, Mexico's always been on the "burnt end" of a marshmallow stick, so it ain't nothin' new ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Gscott - 5-31-2018 at 09:53 PM

The US should charge a tourist tax, just like Mexico does. Let that pay for the wall.

Paco Facullo - 5-31-2018 at 10:05 PM

Tourist visa's for the USA are around $200.00 depending ,,,,,

Mexico's tourist visa is 500 Peso's for 180 day's !!!

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by Paco Facullo]

mtgoat666 - 6-1-2018 at 05:16 AM

It’s not mexico’s poblem, why should they pay?

If you think illegal immigration is a problem, then you should make the employers pay for the wall. Seems to me that usa govt should attack the employers that entice illegal immigration, rather than attacking the poor people that just want jobs :light:

David K - 6-1-2018 at 06:41 AM

How is Mexico not being able to have an economy to support all its citizens, not their problem Goat?

If the bureaucracy and bribe-system were removed and banks were allowed to hold paper title to make small business and home loans, Mexico could be really rich and the people would have jobs, good jobs, and opportunity. Mexican people would rather not leave their families to work in another country but some of them want better than they can get at home.

Don't blame U.S. business for illegal crossings when it is your favorite government people that rewards and coddles illegal immigration with free benefits, social security, amnesty cities and states, and they can have parades flying the Mexican flag protesting the U.S. NONE of that happens in Mexico where national pride is high and foreigners meddling in political matter is forbidden.

Get the government out of the way, create free-market banking, and I see a day when Americans will come south to work in Mexico, it could get that good.

billklaser - 6-1-2018 at 06:59 AM

Well said David! Viva La Mexico

chippy - 6-1-2018 at 07:06 AM

"free market banking" Ya that worked out well in the US. Have you already forgotten? Well anyway nothing like a pile of regurgitated republican rhetoric with my coffee:barf:.

sancho - 6-1-2018 at 08:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
social security, amnesty cities and states









You seem to be up on this, but how does one in the
US without proper immigration status, therefore
without a SS
card, collect Social Security?

chuckie - 6-1-2018 at 08:21 AM

yadayadayada.....

chuckie - 6-1-2018 at 08:31 AM

If Drump has anything to do with this, the ONLY things certain are that BOTH the US taxpayer and the Mexicans will get screwed...

SFandH - 6-1-2018 at 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


If the bureaucracy and bribe-system were removed and banks were allowed to hold paper title to make small business and home loans, Mexico could be really rich and the people would have jobs, good jobs, and opportunity.


Mexicans can get mortgages, car loans, etc. Perhaps you don't see this because you stick to a rural, somewhat backward area in a very small part of Mexico. You shouldn't generalize what you see in small baja towns to the rest of Mexico.

There is a growing middle class in the major cities. I frequently visit Playas de Tijuana and it is a relatively nice middle-class neighborhood with modern homes, and the majority of the people driving newish cars. The strip along the beach is sort of ramshackle but the neighborhoods behind the beach are quite nice. These folks aren't paying cash for 100 to 300 thousand dollar homes and new cars.


[Edited on 6-1-2018 by SFandH]

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 09:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
free benefits, social security, amnesty cities and states, and they can have parades flying the Mexican flag protesting the U.S. NONE of that happens in Mexico where national pride is high and foreigners meddling in political matter is forbidden.


Free benefits. Illegals pay sales taxes, gas taxes, probably withheld payroll taxes, rent payments, maybe even property taxes if they own a house. If they get hurt, do we just let them die on the street? Like taking away the ACA from millions? Let their children go uneducated? Let them starve? Let their children die of treatable illness?

We're already separating children from parents at the border, might as well just let them die anyway, right? Save taxpayer money for the wall?

I got mine, screw everyone else? Is that your sentiment?

Social Security. How can they get a SS card without being a citizen? What Social Security are they paying, and how do they get benefits from that if not registered? It is against federal law for illegal immigrants to get a SS number. Only citizens and permanent legal residents allowed. Explain your statement on this one.

Parades flying Mexican flags. What about the 1st Amendment, most countries do NOT have one. I've seen many St. Patrick's Day parades with Irish flags waving, no problem with that? Are you insecure about your own patriotism? Your family did not emigrate from another country at some time in the past? Should we scrap the 1st Amendment?

Last I checked, our government does plenty of protesting about other countries, and certainly meddles in their affairs. Remember Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. No issues with that?

What about the employers who exploit these people? They are blameless?

Please explain your statements, we're all waiting. Or is this just more Fox News talking points?

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

SFandH - 6-1-2018 at 09:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


Don't blame U.S. business for illegal crossings


What?? For the most part Mexicans cross illegally to get work. And it's American businessmen who hire them, breaking the law. I have a friend who owns a small roofing business and he uses undocumented workers all the time. In fact, he was complaining a while back because a long time worker who filled the role of foreman was deported.

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:04 AM

I am guessing that if we ramped up illegal immigration and added 100 million more undocumented immigrants that it would be a boon for our economy somehow. With that logic, why not be a really good host and let some move into your house? Of course it would be of great benefit to you and yours... Right?

chuckie - 6-1-2018 at 10:08 AM

Agribusiness is the likely the biggest offender when it comes to employing illegals. BUT we seldom hear of mass raids on Chicken, Beef and Pork processors.....Why? Big Bucks in play....and the American public wants cheap food...

David K - 6-1-2018 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  


Don't blame U.S. business for illegal crossings


What?? For the most part Mexicans cross illegally to get work. And it's American businessmen who hire them, breaking the law. I have a friend who owns a small roofing business and he uses undocumented workers all the time. In fact, he was complaining a while back because a long time worker who filled the role of foreman was deported.


If you wouldn't chop my answer in half, then the answer is there and is respectful of the Mexican people... in that better government/laws/economy in Mexico IS Mexico's responsibility so that Mexican people don't have to leave their country for better-paying jobs.

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by David K]

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:16 AM

Lets say "James" comes to the USA illegally with his 3 kids and wife.
James hangs out at the local hardware store looking for day to day construction work. His wife stays home watching their young children. James makes $12 per hour 25 hours a week.
James makes $1,200 per month. He spends all of that to survive. (Food, gas, rent, etc.) Suppose the sales tax on that is 10 percent. James would pay $120 per month in taxes. When James' children enroll in school, the school will NOT check their status as legal citizens. They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA? Please explain how this type of situation is sustainable for any country.
I am all for legal immigration.

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:19 AM

David K- Today you are on point. Mexico has ALL of the tools and resources to be extremely prosperous. Corruption will forever handicap that ability if allowed to persist. Much like the corruption of our system in the USA deteriorates our ability to sustain what we have.

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA?


Nothing is "sustainable" forever, not even your precious "tax cuts." You think educating and feeding children is a "net negative" for our country? Financially, perhaps. Morally, not at all. I'm sure Jesus would strongly agree with your outlook. Screw those little kids.

If you want to save some real money, let's cut our senseless wars on other countries and maybe trim the bloated defense budget. Or, maybe we should just balance it on the backs of poor children, as you suggest?

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA?


Nothing is "sustainable" forever, not even your precious "tax cuts." You think educating and feeding children is a "net negative" for our country? Financially, perhaps. Morally, not at all. I'm sure Jesus would strongly agree with your outlook. Screw those little kids.

If you want to save some real money, let's cut our senseless wars on other countries and maybe trim the bloated defense budget. Or, maybe we should just balance it on the backs of poor children, as you suggest?

John


You are taking a lot of liberty with guessing my political viewpoints. However, if you think about it a little more... Jesus wouldn't agree to stealing would he? I don't think so. On an aside- I have seen evidence of starvation in many parts of the world. Never have I seen any widespread evidence of that coming from Mexico.

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

Terry28 - 6-1-2018 at 10:42 AM

John Harper...You are 100% correct!

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:46 AM

John Harper & Terry28

How much of YOUR money did you donate to help those less fortunate around the world this year? BE HONEST

SFandH - 6-1-2018 at 10:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  


Please explain how this type of situation is sustainable for any country.


Out of 100 people, 96 or 97 are legal residents. Undocumented immigrants represent 3 to 4 percent of the population. And only 1/2 of them are Mexican. So 1 or 2 people out of 100 are undocumented Mexicans.

Do you really think that's a huge problem? I don't. This whole immigration issue is much to do about not much. But it is an emotional issue that plays upon people's racial attitudes and gives politicians a method of diverting people's attention from the more significant issues facing the country.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-abou...


Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:52 AM

I don't agree that it is a racial issue. It is a financial issue.

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 10:56 AM

If your 3-4 percent number is accurate, You would find no problem donating 3-4 percent of your income and net worth to help those in need. But I am sure you already are doing more than that. I bet you are just trying to motivate those that are less giving than you already are. Thank you for that.

JoeJustJoe - 6-1-2018 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Lets say "James" comes to the USA illegally with his 3 kids and wife.
James hangs out at the local hardware store looking for day to day construction work. His wife stays home watching their young children. James makes $12 per hour 25 hours a week.
James makes $1,200 per month. He spends all of that to survive. (Food, gas, rent, etc.) Suppose the sales tax on that is 10 percent. James would pay $120 per month in taxes. When James' children enroll in school, the school will NOT check their status as legal citizens. They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA? Please explain how this type of situation is sustainable for any country.
I am all for legal immigration.


Lets use your absurd example to something more realistic here in the US with American citizens, because what you describe is a typical "Walmart" worker all over the US making minimum wages, and because they can't pay all their bills,so they supplement their Walmart slave wages with food stamps, and since Walmart, doesn't offer health insurance they put in for Obamacare free or low cost health insurance, and since these Walmart workers, are not taxed on a Federal level, their kids are a burden to the school system.

Now tell me how this system is sustainable for any country?

I'm for corporations that contribute and help sustain any country.

Of course we can't deport American citizens, working at Walmart" but we can make corporations like Walmart" to pull their own weight, and end corporate welfare, that's a much bigger problem than public assistance for poor people.

From Forbes: "Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance"

BTW, immigrants, any kind of immigrants have always been a net gain to a country they immigrate too, and that continues to be the case.

I also laugh when nativists claim how they love legal immigrants, and it's only illegal immigrants they hate. Yeah right. I wish I had a dollar for every time I hear this from a nativist.


Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 11:41 AM

Joe Just Joe-
Your race baiting is a disappointment.
First, you have no idea of my immigration status.
Second, I don't "hate" anyone.
Third, your blanket statements are what is absurd here. (ANY kind of immigrants have ALWAYS been a net gain). That is not true
Lastly, I agree that Walmart is not the be all and end all in regards to employers. However, Walmart clearly is an economic driver for the USA.

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 01:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
John Harper & Terry28

How much of YOUR money did you donate to help those less fortunate around the world this year? BE HONEST


Not sure the exact amount, but as a US and CA taxpayer, my taxes support all US international programs, the United Nations, our military, foreign aid programs, etc. They all do work in other countries, don't they? Also, I am a public high school teacher, so lots of my time is spent with migrant children.

BTW, how much did you donate? How many children have you helped educate or provide guidance to over, say, the last 20 years as I have? You do realize teachers spend almost $900 a year of their own money in their classrooms? It's been on the news lately, if you pay attention.

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 01:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
I don't agree that it is a racial issue. It is a financial issue.


As I said, cut where the fat is. Defense spending. Or, massive corporate welfare to agriculture, Walmart, etc. as JJJ provide examples of.

Who the hell wants to take over a country with no morals anyway? We are not worth defending if we turn our backs on moral leadership in the world.

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 01:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Jesus wouldn't agree to stealing would he?


Would you steal to feed your starving child? What would Jesus say?

If you define paying taxes as stealing, then it is a sin. Why don't we just abolish all taxation, and pray for a miracle to build our roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, and military. Gonna take lots of prayer. Or, maybe rich people can fund the military, since it protects their wealth more than the rest of ours combined.

As Jesus said, "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (taxes) and unto God that which is God's (your soul)?"

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

chuckie - 6-1-2018 at 01:38 PM

WOW! Lotsa "Holier than thou" in those rants....!!!!

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 01:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
WOW! Lotsa "Holier than thou" in those rants....!!!!


Yes, and I'm an atheist as well. It's amazing how many non-religious folks actually "get" the word of Jesus more than the "so called" devout among us.

John

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by John Harper]

Tioloco - 6-1-2018 at 02:23 PM

John Harper- I do appreciate your service to the children as a teacher. We disagree on this topic but probably have more in common than not. I was referring to your discretionary spending. Not the money that you were compelled to give through taxation. Also, teaching is a paid profession that is not forced upon anyone. It is a choice. Possibly a calling. In any event, it is NOT volunteerism. It is a paid profession and like many other professions it requires long hours from time to time. That is just life.
John- you were the first to invoke Jesus in this topic... unnecessarily...especially for a self described atheist.

Back on topic- Build the wall or don't. That is out of my control.

[Edited on 6-1-2018 by Tioloco]

Feeding the Needy

MrBillM - 6-1-2018 at 05:26 PM

Between home and our year-long trailer camping destination, we contribute around $125-$150 monthly feeding those in need.

Squirrels, Raccoons, Coyotes, birds, etc.

And, they seem to appreciate it.

The squirrels and birds, anyway.

The raccoons and coyotes in the mountains are nocturnal visitors so we don't see them often.

SFandH - 6-1-2018 at 05:30 PM

Oh come on, you don't spend that much feeding flea-bitten varmints do you?

If so, buy your varmint food on the fun side of the wall, it's cheaper.

John Harper - 6-1-2018 at 06:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
John- you were the first to invoke Jesus in this topic... unnecessarily...especially for a self described atheist.


Your critique is valid, mr. tio. I used the most common metaphor for what all religions basically preach. Maybe Ghandi would have been a better choice for my arguments. I appreciate your comments.

John

Varmints ?

MrBillM - 6-1-2018 at 07:57 PM

I prefer critters. Varmints is a word that I usually reserve for people.

As I say (too ?) often to others at the campground ............ "I've met far more Squirrels (and other critters) that I like than I have people ".

As to the cost of feeding the needy, it works out to more. Around $45.00+ weekly:

20 lb. Mixed wildbird seed = $7.99
5 lb. Black-oil sunflower seed = $4.99
5 lb. cracked corn = $4.99
5 lb. dried ear corn = $4.99
10 lb. Kibbles n Bits = $4.99
24 oz. salted peanuts (x4) = $11.96
5 lb. Gala apples = $3.99
+ Hummingbird Nectar

Worth every dollar. Sitting outside in the afternoons, sipping on a Stella (maybe even two) with my bird books, watching the kids eat and play. Looking forward each a.m. to downloading the shots from my Game Camera and seeing who visited overnight. Usually Coyotes and Raccoons. It's all only spoiled by the days (especially holidays) when the crowds arrive.

Having gotten the critters so used to the feedings ...................... we started feeling guilty about being gone in the winter and, during the Jan-Feb frame when we pulled the trailer home, we drove up on day trips every 5-7 days with our goodies.

And, since April during our 10-day storage after each 30-days, we drive up for feeding at least twice.

Heading up in the a.m. Feed the critters, picnic and go for a swim.

And, taking some treats to the Raccoon which took up residence in the bushes adjacent to the pool.




mtgoat666 - 6-1-2018 at 09:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Lets say "James" comes to the USA illegally with his 3 kids and wife.
James hangs out at the local hardware store looking for day to day construction work. His wife stays home watching their young children. James makes $12 per hour 25 hours a week.
James makes $1,200 per month. He spends all of that to survive. (Food, gas, rent, etc.) Suppose the sales tax on that is 10 percent. James would pay $120 per month in taxes. When James' children enroll in school, the school will NOT check their status as legal citizens. They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA? Please explain how this type of situation is sustainable for any country.
I am all for legal immigration.


I think it is the roll of the state to provide basic support to poor in need regardless of citizenship. They live amongst us, they are equally deserving of support.
The usa has a relatively low tax rate, and seems to have plenty of wealth and economic power to afford to provide support to poor. It is sustainable, our tax base is strong, can pay.

LancairDriver - 6-1-2018 at 09:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Lets say "James" comes to the USA illegally with his 3 kids and wife.
James hangs out at the local hardware store looking for day to day construction work. His wife stays home watching their young children. James makes $12 per hour 25 hours a week.
James makes $1,200 per month. He spends all of that to survive. (Food, gas, rent, etc.) Suppose the sales tax on that is 10 percent. James would pay $120 per month in taxes. When James' children enroll in school, the school will NOT check their status as legal citizens. They will get a free education, free lunch, etc. How is this scenario not a net negative for the USA? Please explain how this type of situation is sustainable for any country.
I am all for legal immigration.


I think it is the roll of the state to provide basic support to poor in need regardless of citizenship. They live amongst us, they are equally deserving of support.
The usa has a relatively low tax rate, and seems to have plenty of wealth and economic power to afford to provide support to poor. It is sustainable, our tax base is strong, can pay.


Then why do we have 20 trillion dollar national debt which is growing by a trillion each year?