BajaNomad - Murder in Bay of LA

Murder in Bay of LA

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fatoldcapt - 6-2-2018 at 12:59 PM

Taken from Facebook post by Mia Blanco: I have heard them also, just a while ago; out of respect for family of those involved, no names because they may not even know yet, but two Americans were murdered last night, yes in the South end of the Bay. I am beyond heartbroken for their families & for the good ones in Bahia as well...

Any other info?

Mateo-Feo - 6-2-2018 at 01:29 PM

Just heard about this. So terrible. I heard it was 2 people and their dog. A boat was attempted to be stolen. This came to me third hand so don’t quote me.

drzura - 6-2-2018 at 01:43 PM

Very terrible. Seems Baja, or Mexico for that matter, is turning into a real chithole....

willardguy - 6-2-2018 at 01:52 PM

stand-by for a map of LA bay

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 01:54 PM

The family is arranging to fly down. As usual, no suspects.

drzura - 6-2-2018 at 01:57 PM

Probably the same culprits that stole the other boat in Bay of LA not too long ago. Hopefully the locals know who these fuhks are, and the police will deal with them.

Quote: Originally posted by Mateo-Feo

Just heard about this. So terrible. I heard it was 2 people and their dog. A boat was attempted to be stolen. This came to me third hand so don’t quote me.

Alm - 6-2-2018 at 04:53 PM

Drzura, knowledge that locals might have doesn't directly affect actions of local police (who are also locals and also could possess this knowledge).

There is a good chance that they were from the mainland, and therefore are long gone.

I wonder, how good a boat it was.

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 04:59 PM

Reports say the fuhks left to the south in two vehicles.

Edit: one went towards town

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by woody with a view]

willardguy - 6-2-2018 at 05:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

Reports say the fuhks left to the south in two vehicles.

with boat?

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 05:18 PM

No. They tried to launch boat in front of the house but it got stuck in the sand. They left it and split.

Doug/Vamonos - 6-2-2018 at 05:19 PM

As stated above please refrain from speculating out of respect for the families. Some info expressed is accurate. Some is not. It will come out in due time.

John Harper - 6-2-2018 at 05:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

stand-by for a map of LA bay

John

KurtG - 6-2-2018 at 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

stand-by for a map of LA bay

I can't imagine a more inappropriate comment. We're talking about tragic loss of life here.

mtgoat666 - 6-2-2018 at 07:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by KurtG

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

stand-by for a map of LA bay

I can't imagine a more inappropriate comment. We're talking about tragic loss of life here.

Actually, it seems to be at this time in the category of rumor or vague story that might be true or might be fiction. No date. no victim name. No details. No location.

A wise crack about maphead will lighten the mood until someone has news to share.

norte - 6-2-2018 at 08:27 PM

There are reports out there, but out of respect for who? do we keep silent about this news? Hope no one else gets killed because there is a secret.

JZ - 6-2-2018 at 08:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Doug/Vamonos

As stated above please refrain from speculating out of respect for the families. Some info expressed is accurate. Some is not. It will come out in due time.

Why are you p@ssy footing around. Just give the details you know. I never will understand this line of thinking.

rts551 - 6-2-2018 at 08:34 PM

Like Norte says...Its all about "I have a secret"

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 08:53 PM

Its all over the bahiadelosangeles FB page.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by woody with a view]

JZ - 6-2-2018 at 09:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

Its all over the bahiadelosangeles FB page.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by woody with a view]

Some ppl don't FB.

chumlee57 - 6-2-2018 at 09:11 PM

If it's all over the Face Book page, why not here...this is obviously of great interest to anyone who travels the penninsula

JoeJustJoe - 6-2-2018 at 09:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I agree, and I'm calling BS, until somebody provides a newspaper article, or at the very least to these so-called Facebook, sites where it's all over.

There are too many Mia Blanco, names to track down her Facebook page, and there are are also a few bahiadelosangeles sites on Facebook, and I see nothing there.

Make it easy cite your sources.

BTW, most American murders, do at least make the local papers, so something should be there by now.

So the dog was murdered too?

Maybe the dog was a dog mule?

fatoldcapt - 6-2-2018 at 09:21 PM

From "BahiaDeLosangeles.Info" on facebook
Posted by Jeff Grant
The bad news is true. Ray Ball and Jo Butler were murdered in their home south of town while trying to stop the theft of their fishing boat. Their bodies were found inside their home, along with that of their pet dog, but a baseball bat was found outside the house indicating the couple was marched back into the house and murdered. This does not bode well for the town. Violence against Americans has been escalating in the last few years with little or no response from authorities. The town elders and governing officials MUST do something quickly to solve this crime or dire consequences will follow
Additional info: Reportedly didn't get the boat. Stuck in sand. Unreported how far south this was from town. Much speculation but few facts.

Alm - 6-2-2018 at 09:21 PM

Names of victims are indeed on Mia FB page, this is not a rumor, unfortunately. I doubt these names are of any use to people who don't live in BOLA at least seasonally. Not much else there on FB, no details.

Alm - 6-2-2018 at 09:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

There are too many Mia Blanco, names to track down her Facebook page,

There is only one pertaining to BOLA. In fact, only one active discussion board centered around this village.

They Killed the Dog ?

MrBillM - 6-2-2018 at 09:35 PM

Dog killers should be summarily executed.

fatoldcapt - 6-2-2018 at 09:37 PM

[The site that Mia posted on is the one for the community

Bahiadelosangeles.info

Look there

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by fatoldcapt]

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 09:42 PM

http://sqnoticias.com/single.php?id=2022

LancairDriver - 6-2-2018 at 09:46 PM

Since most, but not all, Gringos are unarmed for obvious reasons, there are still options although none will defend against a firearm. The best in a situation like this one would be having a flare pistol handy and firing it in the air to get as much attention as possible when trouble is detected. A machete which is legal, could come in handy in the right situation also. The worst is to passively submit to being bludgeoned with a baseball bat.

woody with a view - 6-2-2018 at 09:50 PM

Except they were both shot multiple times. The bat was their defense.

fatoldcapt - 6-2-2018 at 09:55 PM

Facebook site for this info is: Bahiadelosageles.info

bajabuddha - 6-2-2018 at 10:51 PM

A flair pistol fired directly into the chest, face or groin is a direct deterrent to robbery and/or violent crime. Especially if said flare has multiple reloads.

Doug/Vamonos - 6-3-2018 at 05:23 AM

The chit that some of you are posting is disgusting. These were wonderful people. All of the americans at Bahia loved them. Their families are enroute and probably accessing whatever information is available, including this. And they have to read this! Shut your faces and have some respect. It's unfortunate that news like this ever appears on this site because the same idiots can be expected to react like this every time.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by Doug/Vamonos]

24baja - 6-3-2018 at 06:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Doug/Vamonos

The chit that some of you are posting is disgusting. These were wonderful people. All of the americans at Bahia loved them. Their families are enroute and probably accessing whatever information is available, including this. And they have to read this! Shut your faces and have some respect. It's unfortunate that news like this ever appears on this site because the same idiots can be expected to react like this every time.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by Doug/Vamonos]

Well said Doug. Most of us here in BDLA are devistated from the loss of these wonderful, kind and generous people who were loved by Americans and Mexicans. Thank you for assisting in the way you did and I hope we can make BDLA a better place so this does not happen again.

advrider - 6-3-2018 at 07:23 AM

Is this the third murder in BOLA this year? Very sad to say the least, condolences to their family and friends.

shari - 6-3-2018 at 07:56 AM

my heart goes out to the family and friends of the victims and the good folk of BOLA who are suffering on so many levels from this violence. DEP Ray & Jo.

As Ron Gomez stated on Talk Baja, it is a grim reminder to not interfere with a robbery in a direct way...he too was nearly killed when he unknowingly stepped into a robbery situation. :mad:

David K - 6-3-2018 at 08:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

http://sqnoticias.com/single.php?id=2022

The Google translation of this:

SAN QUINTÍN.-

A couple was apparently killed by gunfire inside a home in the Bahía de los Ángeles district, south of the Ensenada municipality.

In the preliminary version of the events, it transpired that at 2:10 this Saturday they reported a violent incident by means of the telephone extension of delegations.

They indicated that a robbery had occurred on a boat in the town's number 5 field, which is why agents of the Municipal Police went to it, although on arrival they were informed by inhabitants of the area that a home was located inside a home. man and a woman with absence of vital signs.

Likewise, they indicated that those involved remained with reddish brown spots, while in the place percussed caps were appreciated.

In this regard, the Attorney General of the State (PGJE) added that those involved were approximately 55 and 67 years old, confirming that they were injured by gunshot wounds.

==================================================================

The Facebook page link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1438046299836992/

================================================================

The following email I saw today/Sunday morning, and it asks to be shared

Subject: important pre-meeting info

By this time everyone has heard of the tragic event that happened last night south of town to Ray and Jo-

I am getting together tomorrow with Toby our Delagado and Antonito Resendez, who is like a warden of this area to arrange a meeting with the comandante and all of us, plus all locals to discuss and try to expedite this case. The locals have been hit hard with theft and also murder in this past year as well and we believe they think it is time to make a stand against all the evil in this town.

I will send another e-mail out if there is time, for the exact meeting details, but since we want this to happen rapidly, I will also announce it on the radio. We hope to have as many people who are here attend, as our show in force will be very important. There will be interpreters, but if you have questions maybe you can google them in spanish to expedite the discussion.

I'm sure I dont have everyones e-mail that is here now- please pass this information on and listen tomorrow on the radio for more details.

Face the Fact

MrBillM - 6-3-2018 at 08:10 AM

It isn't disrespecting the dead to acknowledge that residents (foreign or otherwise) are at the (unlikely) mercy of those intent on robbery or violence. Once again, we are shown that the "Bad Guys" have the ability and inclination to use guns in pursuit of their goals despite the laws.

The only choice presented to the law-abiding in a country like Mexico where firearms aren't a common alternative is to meekly accept the situation and hope not to be slaughtered like a helpless lamb.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by MrBillM]

rts551 - 6-3-2018 at 08:31 AM

Condolences to family and friends. Let this be a wake up[ call for people who blow through Baja and talk about how safe it is, that things are changing.

SFandH - 6-3-2018 at 08:32 AM

Ron has started a thread on TalkBaja.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TalkBaja/

Boats seem to be a hot item for thieves in Baja. I know of three gringo boats that were stolen out of Posada Concepcion on Bahia Concepcion this past winter. The boats were found several days later on the beach near Buenaventura, their motors and all electronics gone.

Chain them up, make it as hard as you can to steal them.

SFandH - 6-3-2018 at 08:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Let this be a wake up call for people who blow through Baja and talk about how safe it is, that things are changing.

I agree. I know of major thefts, armed robberies, and now murders that have happened to gringos in the past 6 months on the peninsula and of course, I'd bet there are more I don't know about.

JoeJustJoe - 6-3-2018 at 08:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fatoldcapt

From "BahiaDeLosangeles.Info" on facebook
Posted by Jeff Grant
The bad news is true. Ray Ball and Jo Butler were murdered in their home south of town while trying to stop the theft of their fishing boat. Their bodies were found inside their home, along with that of their pet dog, but a baseball bat was found outside the house indicating the couple was marched back into the house and murdered. This does not bode well for the town. Violence against Americans has been escalating in the last few years with little or no response from authorities. The town elders and governing officials MUST do something quickly to solve this crime or dire consequences will follow
Additional info: Reportedly didn't get the boat. Stuck in sand. Unreported how far south this was from town. Much speculation but few facts.

I want to thank Wooody, for finally providing a link to the alleged murder of two Americans, in the Bay of LA, and at this time, I still can't find the Mia Facebook page.

However, there are things that don't make sense in the Fat Captain, and Jeff Grant post above.

If the two victims were confronting the alleged boat thieves with a baseball bat outside in an attempt to stop them. It's kinda strange the two bodies of the victims were found inside the house, and the baseball bat was found outside the house.

You would think if the victims confronted the boat thieves outside and the thieves had weapons, they would have just pulled out their guns, and either shot the two outside of the house or just showed them their guns to make the two victims of theft back down, and just take the boat quietly.

Then at the end of the day the alleged boat thieves, didn't even get the boat.

Could there be something more to this story than just a possible boat theft?

And if was just a simple robbery attempt, it's never a good idea to confront the robbers, or try to fight them over low value material things that could easily be replaced.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

chippy - 6-3-2018 at 09:13 AM

JJJ you are truly an azzhat.

BajaGringo - 6-3-2018 at 09:25 AM

I waited on posting this until early this morning. Although I had received reports coming from 2nd and 3rd hand sources yesterday, the stories all seemed to have conflicting information.

A few said that it occurred on their boat, others said it happened at their house and one early report even said that only one was killed and the other on their way to the hospital, barely hanging on. My contact at the MP here in San Quintin that has jurisdiction wouldn't confirm until this morning what happened and the names of Ray and Jo.

They are under a lot of pressure to catch their murderers and are investigating in a community where lately few seem willing to talk or go on the record about anything involving the growing crime problem in Bahia de Los Angeles, mostly related to crystal meth . It has taken a very heavy toll on that remote community and the good folks there who make up the majority of the town have fallen victims to it, in one way or another.

Tragic story that hits all too close to home for Cristina and I. By the grace of God our neighbors here in La Chorera responded quickly enough to save us both back in 2011 and also helped the authorities catch the three perps who attacked us and are still in prison. We were extremely lucky.

A very costly lesson that day, always best to just not intervene in such cases and put your personal safety first and foremost. Stuff can be replaced, no matter how dear to you and/or expensive.

My sincere condolences to Ray and Jo's family and friends as well as the entire Bahia de Los Angeles community, where I am told they were widely respected and much loved...

Ball Couple.jpg - 30kB

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by BajaGringo]

woody with a view - 6-3-2018 at 09:58 AM

Well said, Ron. Thanks for that. To everyone else, nothing ever appears as it seems in the one dimensional web.

This is now the FOURTH murder in the pueblo that I'm aware of in the past year, all with no suspects in custody!

The narco wars half a decade ago damaged many in the pueblo. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself. Murder as a crime of passion can be looked at one way. Murder for profit is a scourge on all of us. If the authorities can't do their job to maintain order in the area then the Wild West will return to the benefit of none. Please make our voices (and hundreds more) heard at the meeting this week with the Delegado.

:saint:

DEP Sr Ray y Sra Jo! :saint:

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2018 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

Well said, Ron. Thanks for that. To everyone else, nothing ever appears as it seems in the one dimensional web.

This is now the FOURTH murder in the pueblo that I'm aware of in the past year, all with no suspects in custody!

The narco wars half a decade ago damaged many in the pueblo. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself. Murder as a crime of passion can be looked at one way. Murder for profit is a scourge on all of us. If the authorities can't do their job to maintain order in the area then the Wild West will return to the benefit of none. Please make our voices (and hundreds more) heard at the meeting this week with the Delegado.

:saint:

DEP Sr Ray y Sra Jo! :saint:

Meth and other drug addictions are root of most crime. There is no easy solution...
Of course, corruption in law enforcement compounds the drug problem.
What ya gonna do?

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

This is now the FOURTH murder in the pueblo that I'm aware of in the past year, all with no suspects in custody!

I didn't follow all 4. One was Chuck on the camp near military base (or was it 2017 fall, don't remember) - obviously was a personal conflict. Could you please recount the other 2 or 3?

Somebody mentioned flare gun - oh, please, people... 2 vehicles, probably 3-4 goons with guns. You hit one with a flare and will be dead next second, or even before that, if your react slower than them - very possible for 65-year old who hasn't been in shoot-outs recently.

John Harper - 6-3-2018 at 12:02 PM

I know a 71 year old who would have taken on those thugs unarmed.

John

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2018 at 12:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

This is now the FOURTH murder in the pueblo that I'm aware of in the past year, all with no suspects in custody!

Fighting back against robbery is foolish. The risk of personal injury is great, especially against meth heads who are irrational. And it’s just stuff the robbers want, not worth getting injured or killed over replaceable stuff.

suggested motive for the murders

Skipjack Joe - 6-3-2018 at 12:12 PM

Once the couple had come out to defend their boat with a bat their fate was sealed.

The murderers knew the couple could recognize them if faced by authorities and had to kill them to have any chance of getting away with this. Basically, it's the same reason why rape victims are killed.

They were wonderful people. It's hard to imagine anyone wanting to harm them. But life is unfair.

woody with a view - 6-3-2018 at 12:13 PM

Doug,
Please make our voices heard at the meeting this week. My partner just walked away and I don’t know where that leaves us. We invest in the good people of Bahia as much as we do our little campo. Every time someone is MURDERED the pueblo loses, both financially and as a community. Nothing good comes from continued violence if the guilty continually get away free.

Let’s hope sanity prevails!

fatoldcapt - 6-3-2018 at 12:14 PM

Although my first post was sketchy I only posted what was there on Facebook. There is some posts on BDoutdoors (bloody decks fishing blog)

https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/forum/baja-mexico-fishing-...

I have sent a brief post to the San Diego Union and LA Times. I have left a message at the US Consonant office at TJ. I have tried to get the word out about this so there might be some pressure to solve this horrible crime. My heart goes out to the families of the victims. So sorry.

See also: Bahiadelosangeles.info on facebook

JZ - 6-3-2018 at 12:31 PM

Incredible if this happened at 2pm in the afternoon?

Let's hope they catch this scum.

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 01:05 PM

"Usually", a las 02:10 horas means 2.10 am. 24-hour time is common in Europe and Mexico.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by Alm]

JoeJustJoe - 6-3-2018 at 01:05 PM

From the link of FatoldCapt:

" Just talked to Bill Boyce this morning who has a house just south of town. He told me Ray was one of his best friends for over 40 years.He had to notify the family about the deaths. He says all the high-ranking authorities are now involved including Kiko the governor. I hear they're launching a big investigation to apprehend the sons of b-tches. The bodies will be taken to sq for cremation then back to LA Bay to spread the ashes. Very sad situation. I'm guessing these are the same people who stole a boat in Gonzaga earlier this year and also one in La Bay they were both moored on buoys. My guess is they weren't from the mainland if they had cars to get away with. This has really brought a dark cloud over this pristine area. Need to catch these guys and have Justice served"
__________________________

I just love links because it makes it so easy to see what OPs are talking about.

If true this sounds suspicious that the Baja Governor, is involved now!

So where is the autopsy? Although, it may be obvious the victim died from gunshots, a post-mortem examination, could turn up valuable information and could help lead the the killers.

Who gave permission to have the two Americans cremated and to have their ashes spread back at the LA Bay?

It's starting to sound like more of a hit than a random killing over a simple robbery.

chuckie - 6-3-2018 at 01:09 PM

JJJ..You are so full of Krap.....

Hope ?

MrBillM - 6-3-2018 at 01:11 PM

Once you're reduced to " ......... hoping that sanity prevails ........... ", things are pretty much beyond (reasonable) HOPE.

The comment on the confrontation was right on the money. NEVER take a bat to what might be a gunfight. NEVER confront Bad Guys unless you have the resources (physical and mental) to address ANY eventuality with a likelihood of success.

Countless times I have gone outside at night to check on suspicious noises or activity when my motion-detection lights have gone on. EACH time I have taken my .45 with me. More than once, my current (and previous) wife has asked if I think that I'll need it. "Probably not, but I'd hate to leave it behind and find out that I did".

That, of course, is in the U.S. An option not readily available in Baja. During my many years in Baja (32 in Percebu), I (most often) had a .380 or 9mm available as a LAST resort, but I knew well what the consequences would be and took care not to unnecessarily get myself into that situation.

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 02:02 PM

"Reportedly didn't get the boat. Stuck in sand."

Should've consulted the tide charts. Amateurs - this actually worries me a lot.

imlost - 6-3-2018 at 02:20 PM

Maybe it's time for the residents there to get security cameras with DVR's. At least they'd have a chance of getting some video of the perp's.

Bubba - 6-3-2018 at 02:26 PM

Sad situation.

BornFisher - 6-3-2018 at 02:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

"Reportedly didn't get the boat. Stuck in sand."

Should've consulted the tide charts. Amateurs - this actually worries me a lot.

Or maybe the boat was on a trailer and the trailer got stuck in the sand.
Such a beautiful place, and now so tainted! Condolences to the victims families.

woody with a view - 6-3-2018 at 02:35 PM

Alm, 3 gringos 1 local. Only 3 bodies.

SFandH - 6-3-2018 at 02:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

Maybe it's time for the residents there to get security cameras with DVR's. At least they'd have a chance of getting some video of the perp's.

Good idea! It's got me thinking about security measures I can make for my next winter's stay on my favorite Baja beach. I know a dog is a good idea, and I love dogs, but they are such a big responsibility to take on.

Electronic countermeasures for sure.

bajaguy - 6-3-2018 at 02:58 PM

4 camera wireless or wired NVR's with a 1TB hard drive are pretty inexpensive.

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

Maybe it's time for the residents there to get security cameras with DVR's. At least they'd have a chance of getting some video of the perp's.

fatoldcapt - 6-3-2018 at 03:01 PM

I read on the facebook page someone wrote that the boat got stuck in the sand. That's totally unconfirmed. Same with the number of bad guys. Only mention was of two cars and that also is unconfirmed as far I know. There's a post above that says 3 gringos 1 local. Is that the number of fatalities this year or what?

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 03:07 PM

If thieves are not in a hurry, they could destroy DVR. Uploading images online seems difficult too, considering that there is no cable internet or wireless in the village, and satellite systems are usually offline for winter. South end doesn't even have grid power. Maybe camera is worth it if your assets are worth it...

rts551 - 6-3-2018 at 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 24baja

Quote: Originally posted by fatoldcapt

Although my first post was sketchy I only posted what was there on Facebook. There is some posts on BDoutdoors (bloody decks fishing blog)

https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/forum/baja-mexico-fishing-...

I have sent a brief post to the San Diego Union and LA Times. I have left a message at the US Consonant office at TJ. I have tried to get the word out about this so there might be some pressure to solve this horrible crime. My heart goes out to the families of the victims. So sorry.

See also: Bahiadelosangeles.info on facebook

Thank you for your help. The family is in touch witb the consulate and the FBI is also involved. The family are arriving today as are special investigators.

What is the FBI going to do in Mexico?

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

I know a dog is a good idea,

I wouldn't bet on it. People were robbed with dog sleeping - or maybe it went hiding on purpose, who knows... And then again, a dog in the incident above was shot, same as that couple.

chuckie - 6-3-2018 at 03:15 PM

Dead is dead.....FBI=flocking beuraocrats involved....

bajaguy - 6-3-2018 at 03:21 PM

If, if, if.....it was a suggestion

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

If thieves are not in a hurry, they could destroy DVR. Uploading images online seems difficult too, considering that there is no cable internet or wireless in the village, and satellite systems are usually offline for winter. South end doesn't even have grid power. Maybe camera is worth it if your assets are worth it...

JoeJustJoe - 6-3-2018 at 03:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

[

What is the FBI going to do in Mexico?

The FBI, has no jurisdiction in Mexico for non-terrorism homicides, but if called by the US Consulate, and invited by the Mexican and/or local police they can offer forensic assistance and help with the investigation.

But who knows what's true and I bet very few ex-pats actually knew the victims.

Guys like Chuckie, from the Midwest are usually suspicious of the FBI and other Federal agencies, cause of Ruby Ridge. Waco, the deep state, and now with the Russia investigation.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

fatoldcapt - 6-3-2018 at 03:56 PM

There is a post on Bahiadelosangeles.info that was just put up about the beating death of the 75 year old back on Jan 8th. A suspect has been arrested. This has NO relationship to the shooting on Sat. But it is progress. The article is from the San Diego Union Trib and was to large to copy and paste. If you are interested go to the newspapers site or see bahiadelosangeles.info facebook page.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by fatoldcapt]

imlost - 6-3-2018 at 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

It's pretty easy to hide a DVR. Also, images don't have to be uploaded - DVR's usually have the capability to store images or video for an extended period of time. A lot of stand-alone units can now record for over a month, and with added storage, months. A DVR and cameras don't take a lot of power to operate, so they can definitely be used with a solar/off-grid situation.

If everyone in the area had cameras, it would only be a matter of time before someone would have some good, usable video of some very bad people.

I wouldn't consider this to be about protecting assets from theft - It's more about protecting people by eventually eliminating a bad element.

[Edited on 6-3-2018 by imlost]

chuckie - 6-3-2018 at 04:23 PM

AND! By God if they had all that electronic stuff, they would still be alive, eh? What a concept...!

woody with a view - 6-3-2018 at 04:30 PM

Can we stop the smart chit? Two good people are dead.

fatoldcapt - 6-3-2018 at 04:35 PM

The post above from the San Diego paper, I'm told that it's from March. Not a new thing. (New to me) Just wanted to make that correction.

Alm - 6-3-2018 at 08:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

If everyone in the area had cameras, it would only be a matter of time before someone would have some good, usable video of some very bad people.
[Edited on 6-3-2018 by imlost]

Good! Then he could print it, frame and put on a toilet wall to remind him every time that his money went the way his sh-t did.
Seriously though, I understand that the chances of capturing bad guys are better when there are some photos or videos. Just don't expect much. Or anything.

The solved murder of 75-year old Chuck was a different case, they knew each other, from what I hear.

imlost - 6-3-2018 at 08:42 PM

This community is hurting, and I hope people will keep presenting ideas to help - even if the ideas may not be the best, but are a genuine attempt at solving the problem.

A?ejo Coca - 6-4-2018 at 08:41 AM

Saddened to hear about horrible events like this. Sincerest condolences to any family and friends who may read this.

Just a thought/idea that I though I would share.

My friends live in a small community and they all installed the loudest panic alarm sounder they could find as part of their home security system. They have multiple horns pointed in different directions outside, and absolutely ear piecing horns inside the house.

When they test it, it's not a faint car alarm sound. It's an event that can't be ignored. It's audible pepper spray. Very shocking to the senses regardless of how tough you are.

BajaTed - 6-4-2018 at 08:56 AM

Traditional next step in Mex. justice on mainland
Local community members will form vigilante group.
Said group will discuss among themselves their recent past grievances.
A consensus will form about whom or what the common denominator is.
It will then become common knowledge as it was intended to become the NEW norm.
Next step depends on the level of $$$, or guns involved.

FBI comes first, then the USMC, if you have a fideocomisio, it has a clause about NO use of the USMC as a form of resolution, one of the first clauses.

Did I miss it ?

MrBillM - 6-4-2018 at 09:40 AM

The inevitable (meaningless) ............... "it's more dangerous in South Chicago, L.A., NYC [ or insert U.S. city here] ................." !

shari - 6-4-2018 at 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed

the USMC, if you have a fideocomisio, it has a clause about NO use of the USMC as a form of resolution, one of the first clauses.

what is a USMC?

I sincerely hope Ray & Jo's tragic end may serve as a catalyst to figure out better security to save other's lives. Perhaps a new thread with suggestions like the loud horns warning system.

hermosok123 - 6-4-2018 at 10:13 AM

Yeah, waiting for the real estate agents to chime in. No? Guess they cant point out the tried and true "random drug violence refrain." As those of us know that have lived here for any length of time you are on your own. Lights, horns, pepper spray are deterrents. Take it one step further and buy, learn how to handle a working dog. Not some street mutt that will shirk at the first gun shot or knife but a dog bred for protection that cant be doped or poisoned. Yup, expensive but what price is your well fare or your wifes? Oh I forgot the cameras, cant forget those.

Alm - 6-4-2018 at 10:26 AM

Comparing to big US cities would be meaningless.

Very different situation. In LA or NYC you robbed by locals. In BOLA there are no locals capable of this (not yet, I hope) - people from elsewhere did it. Relaxed sleepy town, events like this are unexpected if not unheard of, and therefore shocking. Easy prey, fish in a barrel.

What really sucks is that somebody from the community did the job as a spotter. It's hard to believe that goons from out of town hit this house randomly.

motoged - 6-4-2018 at 10:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shari

[

what is a USMC?

.

United States Marine Corps.... ?

Some folks think they are the ultimate solution.... :lol:

Paco Facullo - 6-4-2018 at 10:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Quote: Originally posted by shari

[

what is a USMC?

.

United States Marine Corps.... ?

Some folks think they are the ultimate solution.... :lol:

And they are for a debt and death based country ....

[Edited on 6-4-2018 by Paco Facullo]

chuckie - 6-4-2018 at 10:48 AM

OXNARD

charliemanson - 6-4-2018 at 10:58 AM

And they are for a debt and death based county ....

WTF? Please elaborate this statement, Taco. Maybe not for this thread but I am quit interested in what you mean. If you meant country , try using your spell check.

This story really sucks and I surely hope this nonsense of people getting killed for nothing stops soon.

Lee - 6-4-2018 at 11:08 AM

The perps didn't want to be ID'd. Walk into a crime in progress, where the perp has a gun, you might get shot.

Doubt a thief wanting a boat would be comfortable if a sensor light came on. A wheel lock would slow some down.

Showed a friend how to set up a defensive perimeter around an RV he was sure would be broken into.

Lots of deterrences possible.

Paco Facullo - 6-4-2018 at 11:22 AM

Locks are to keep honest people honest...

The best you can do is make deterrents to make it easier for the ratero's to go elsewhere. A thief does what a thief does....

The more valuable things you have the more deterrents you need...

willardguy - 6-4-2018 at 11:31 AM

folks are getting fed up.....

http://www.elvigia.net/general/2018/6/4/insisten-ciudadanos-...

Deterrence and Prayer ?

MrBillM - 6-4-2018 at 11:38 AM

OK, the latter may find the Big Guy otherwise occupied or uninterested.

BUT, the Deterrence stuff (cameras, security lights, sounds, etc) is really the only hope. In some communities, guards have been employed, but (even in Mexico) that might be an expense residents are unwilling to assume.

The law isn't going to put forth any preemptive efforts and personal intervention without armament is a non-starter too often leading to deadly results for the victims.

The cameras would necessarily be evident (and plentiful ?) to have any deterrent effect and motion-activated lights/sounds WILL trip on quite often. I have motion-sensor lights around the perimeter of my house in YV and cats, birds, wind trip them a LOT. To the point where I don't venture to investigate unless they remain on for longer than the default period.

Securing the goods is part of the answer, but a boat on the beach is a challenge. An audio motion alarm might be effective, but would be vulnerable to false operation.

charliemanson - 6-4-2018 at 11:41 AM

Taco, instead of a u2u comeback, I think you should publicly explain what you mean to say about the US and its marines as I think you were insulting both.

As far as the loud noise deterrents , our neighbors have one that goes off weekly and nobody pays attention to any possible crime taking place. we all just try and ignore it and try and get him to disarm it as it sucks for everybody around. A little like crying wolf. we went with the bad ass dog route and everyone in town knows about Manson and nobody screws with us....He does leave big poops and eats a lot however.

Paco Facullo - 6-4-2018 at 11:52 AM

I am NOT insulting anybody as that not my intention nor desire.

I am simply stating a fact that the USA is now built on debt and death.

Case in point,
1) The USA is over 21 Trillion in debt and counting. It can't even pay the interest it owes each month...

2) The USA spends more on their military than ANYONE else in the world.

The Trillion Dollar Question

MrBillM - 6-4-2018 at 12:21 PM

While really far afield from Baja crime and slime:

The interest on the national debt is near (but under) $500 Billion. Various forecasts estimate that it "could" rise to over a Trillion by 2028 and would represent over 3 percent of GDP. U.S. government revenue received in 2018 is estimated at $3.34 Trillion.

The government's annual income will pay for 88 percent of spending, creating a $985 billion budget deficit. The revenue collected equals 16.3 percent of gross domestic product.

Total Federal government revenues by year:

FY 2019 (est.) - $3.42 trillion
FY 2018 (est.) - $3.34 trillion
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.

charliemanson - 6-4-2018 at 12:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo

I am NOT insulting anybody as that not my intention nor desire.

I am simply stating a fact that the USA is now built on debt and death.

Case in point,
1) The USA is over 21 Trillion in debt and counting. It can't even pay the interest it owes each month...

2) The USA spends more on their military than ANYONE else in the world.

How does this fit into this thread?
Taco, start a new thread if you want to spew political views and trash the US and its military.

This is a thread about a terrible thing in BOLA

Paco Facullo - 6-4-2018 at 12:38 PM

Firstly, I U2U you so as NOT to deter from the original post ... So PLEASE don't try to lay this on me.... Thanks

Dang Man, I was ONLY doing what you asked ? I also didn't want to start a new thread, you wanted me to .....

And here's a link to the National debt clock...... 21 Trillion plus !!!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Edited on 6-4-2018 by Paco Facullo]

Alm - 6-4-2018 at 02:17 PM

Neighbors will be annoyed when lights and sounds come up for no reason. I know because I am, when neighbor's alarm light illuminates my windows several times a week.

And, in really dangerous situation neighbors will do NOTHING. I forgot where it was - in Asuncion? - when gringo business owner was beaten and robbed in his home, there was cash there, to be paid his workers next day. Some neighbor or another good man must've ratted him out - it's not an incidence that they came that night. There was a fair amount of noise and the neighbor (local) deadbolted her door and shut the lights off. I have two children, she said.

shari - 6-4-2018 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

Neighbors will be annoyed when lights and sounds come up for no reason. I know because I am, when neighbor's alarm light illuminates my windows several times a week.

And, in really dangerous situation neighbors will do NOTHING. I forgot where it was - in Asuncion? - when gringo business owner was beaten and robbed in his home, there was cash there, to be paid his workers next day. Some neighbor or another good man must've ratted him out - it's not an incidence that they came that night. There was a fair amount of noise and the neighbor (local) deadbolted her door and shut the lights off. I have two children, she said.

For the record I dont know of any gringo business owner in Asuncion who was attacked especially one who might have had workers & kids...must have been somewhere else. We are very fortunate here to have an excellent patrol force paid by both fishing coops who patrol 24/7 by land & sea.

But in all fairness how can you expect neighbours to respond when it may be dangerous to do so unless they are armed of course. I sure think twice going out to check what the dogs are barking at!

24baja - 6-4-2018 at 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fatoldcapt

I read on the facebook page someone wrote that the boat got stuck in the sand. That's totally unconfirmed. Same with the number of bad guys. Only mention was of two cars and that also is unconfirmed as far I know. There's a post above that says 3 gringos 1 local. Is that the number of fatalities this year or what?

Aaron since January 2018. 3 gringos have been murdered and 1 local unconfirmed murder or accident.

Boat was stuck in sand on tbe trailer.

TMW - 6-4-2018 at 04:10 PM

Everyone needs to be careful when responding to a barking dog or noises outside that you are not familiar with. Frankly if I lived in an area where stuff was stolen on a regular basis I'd get a gun, be it the US or Mexico, legal or illegal would not matter to me.

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