BajaNomad

Murder in Bay of LA

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bajaguy - 6-4-2018 at 06:02 PM

Actually if you meet the requirements you can possess a firearm for personal defense in Mexico

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Everyone needs to be careful when responding to a barking dog or noises outside that you are not familiar with. Frankly if I lived in an area where stuff was stolen on a regular basis I'd get a gun, be it the US or Mexico, legal or illegal would not matter to me.

rts551 - 6-4-2018 at 09:06 PM

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-califor...

kevin_in_idaho - 6-5-2018 at 04:16 AM

Very sad. I hope that justice prevails.

Mexican Justice

MrBillM - 6-5-2018 at 08:25 AM

Operates on the "Que sera sera" principle.

And (most) often when the question is asked "What Price Justice ?", the answer is "It's Negotiable".

Still, one can hope.

SFandH - 6-5-2018 at 08:52 AM

Perhaps the residents of BOLA can convince the gov to install a military checkpoint at the highway turnoff, the only way into and out of BOLA except for extreme offroad routes.

I think that would add a layer of security for BOLA and also enhance the policing of the highway using available resources.

bajaguy - 6-5-2018 at 10:05 AM

Or station a small detachment and patrols in BOLA

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Perhaps the residents of BOLA can convince the gov to install a military checkpoint at the highway turnoff, the only way into and out of BOLA except for extreme offroad routes.

I think that would add a layer of security for BOLA and also enhance the policing of the highway using available resources.

woody with a view - 6-5-2018 at 10:18 AM

Does anyone know how long it took the police to arrive? I heard a rediculous number but would like to hear from someone present.

gnukid - 6-5-2018 at 10:27 AM

Who do you think allows gang members with guns and drugs to pass at the check points up and down Baja? But it will be different this time... Until more people take true pride in Baja and confront the truth of corruption at all levels, nothing will improve. It certainly won't be done by police or military at this point. It can be done by individuals with well placed security cameras in and out of all streets 24/7 and an aggressive approach to publicizing the truth of what you see on the camera to change mentality in Baja. Open your eyes to the obvious truth in front of you about the source of drugs and weapons and lack of enforcement, it benefits a highly corrupt global network and structure of destabilization intended to harm and intimidate the people up and down west coast. Shed more light on the situation and speak out about the obvious multi-level collusion to allow this to occur. Top down bottom up. It's got to obvious to every person on this forum exactly what is involved to ship drugs and weapons through Bay of LA and support criminal activity at all levels to the degree that murders are free to roam and nothing changes.

John M - 6-5-2018 at 10:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Perhaps the residents of BOLA can convince the gov to install a military checkpoint at the highway turnoff, the only way into and out of BOLA except for extreme offroad routes.

I think that would add a layer of security for BOLA and also enhance the policing of the highway using available resources.


We spent six days in BOLA within this past several weeks (all prior to this terrible incident). There was a checkpoint set up on the BOLA Road at the turn to San Borja once. Also we observed Marines and army patrols in and around town a couple of times. So, there was somewhat of a presence.

John M

David K - 6-5-2018 at 11:01 AM

There is the navy base there too, on the La Gringa road.

BajaBlanca - 6-5-2018 at 11:33 AM

My sister in San Diego called me in a panic after hearing about the murders. I see that it was in the san diego paper but I got the impression she saw it on the news on TV.

She has never been to Baja Sur. I never could convince her it was safe and now I never will.

Paco Facullo - 6-5-2018 at 11:42 AM

Thank goodness your Mum is no scaredy-cat .....

willardguy - 6-5-2018 at 11:49 AM

armed guards patrolling, motion sensor cameras, electronic security, bars and deadbolts, ferocious dogs....rural life in baja these days:( you really gotta love yellowtail!

JoeJustJoe - 6-5-2018 at 12:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Who do you think allows gang members with guns and drugs to pass at the check points up and down Baja? But it will be different this time... Until more people take true pride in Baja and confront the truth of corruption at all levels, nothing will improve. It certainly won't be done by police or military at this point. It can be done by individuals with well placed security cameras in and out of all streets 24/7 and an aggressive approach to publicizing the truth of what you see on the camera to change mentality in Baja. Open your eyes to the obvious truth in front of you about the source of drugs and weapons and lack of enforcement, it benefits a highly corrupt global network and structure of destabilization intended to harm and intimidate the people up and down west coast. Shed more light on the situation and speak out about the obvious multi-level collusion to allow this to occur. Top down bottom up. It's got to obvious to every person on this forum exactly what is involved to ship drugs and weapons through Bay of LA and support criminal activity at all levels to the degree that murders are free to roam and nothing changes.


Oh no, let me go get my tin hat, because it's a global conspiracy involving the highest levels of government in conjunction with the deep global state.

My God, this is a simple murder, and murders happen all over the world everyday for robbery, revenge, or randomly like in the US with a crazed gunman.

The only reason why this murder seems important only on mostly Baja sites, is because it happened to two gringos, and now the fear, outrage and contempt towards Mexico, has set in. Now we also see all these extra demands that something be done to protect the poor ex-pats, in the Bay of LA.

A few weekends ago there were 5 murdered, and 35 wounded in Chicago, but you don't see all the panic and crying in Chicago, like you do in this thread.

Life goes on, get over it already, especially if you didn't know the victims.

"5 Dead, 35 Wounded In Weekend Shootings Across Chicago"




[Edited on 6-5-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 6-5-2018 at 12:59 PM

DK and JJJ bring up Chicago....Go Figure.......

redmercury - 6-5-2018 at 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Fewer Americans are killed in Mexico per year than in just a few hours in America.


Well, that could be because there are fewer Americans in Mexico than in the USA. I think there are around 330 million Americans in the USA, and less than 1/10th of 1% of that in Mexico. Might that account for the difference?

I'll wager nobody from Burkina Faso has ever been murdered in Mexico. Is that because Mexico is safe for Burkina Fasoans, or that there are no Burkina Fasoans in Mexico to kill?

SFandH - 6-5-2018 at 01:30 PM

The comparison to other places totally misses what is important here. The reason for extra concern is that this type of violence is entirely new to small Baja communities like BOLA. Just 10 years ago the violence was limited to mostly TJ. Now it's in Los Cabos, La Paz and more and more places on the peninsula.

My wife and I have agreed that we're no longer going to spend a night in our RV at Rancho Santa Ynez nor any other remote place while driving the peninsula. For the first night, we'll do the run from the border to Guerrero Negro and get a motel room or perhaps park behind the Malarrimo Hotel. Likewise on the return trip.

caj13 - 6-5-2018 at 01:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Fewer Americans are killed in Mexico per year than in just a few hours in America.


David, Thats a disingenous statement - and you know it. The only way that would be a valid comparison, would be if the number of americans in Baja equalled the number of americans in the USA!

willardguy - 6-5-2018 at 02:00 PM

exploding boilers and baseball bats?

bajaguy - 6-5-2018 at 02:02 PM

The only time it makes a difference in either country is if you are one of the victims


Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Fewer Americans are killed in Mexico per year than in just a few hours in America.


David, Thats a disingenous statement - and you know it. The only way that would be a valid comparison, would be if the number of americans in Baja equalled the number of americans in the USA!

chuckie - 6-5-2018 at 02:21 PM

I liked the part where he sez it doesn't matter because it didn't happen in Baja Sur.....

SFandH - 6-5-2018 at 02:50 PM

BCS?

https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=homicides+baja+california...

bajabuddha - 6-5-2018 at 04:34 PM

Amazing how this thread devolved into DK becoming the 'target', defending the indefensible, and making it all about him. Reminds me of a 3 Stooges ditty:

Me, me me....
Me, my my,
Me my mickey my, me, I, I,
Mickey me my I, I, I,
Mickey me, my, I.

.....or sumpin' to that effect.

Anyay, the news hit on the internet today, 3 early this morning by 3 different outlets, and this one now on msn from Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/05/american-couple-shot...

SFandH - 6-5-2018 at 05:34 PM

I've been on the Baja bandwagon for over 30 years. Not anymore. These folks are us.

Very sad.



[Edited on 6-6-2018 by SFandH]

[Edited on 6-6-2018 by BajaNomad]

woody with a view - 6-5-2018 at 05:38 PM

When they start killing people for profit is the beginning of the end. Cartels killing each other for cartel business if for profit. Don’t go there. Blasting two people for their property is BS and if the authorities cant get a grip on this..... Hoping for good news in an hour or so!

LancairDriver - 6-5-2018 at 05:54 PM

If the Mexican Police have some suspects, unlike in the USA they WILL talk very quickly. They have their very effective interrogation methods.

Alm - 6-5-2018 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
The reason for extra concern is that this type of violence is entirely new to small Baja communities like BOLA. ...

My wife and I have agreed that we're no longer going to spend a night in our RV at Rancho Santa Ynez nor any other remote place while driving the peninsula.

Yes, shocking because of unusual type of crime, and in the area not known for violent crimes. Killing people for property is hard to wrap your mind around, anywhere. They don't usually do it.

Catavina aka Santa Inez is relatively safe, IMO. Half a dozen campers, many with old-ish trucks and/or no boats, parked in the open - not the best odds for highway gangs. The town itself has no addicts or dealers, too small.

rts551 - 6-5-2018 at 07:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  
If the Mexican Police have some suspects, unlike in the USA they WILL talk very quickly. They have their very effective interrogation methods.


Or maybe they are a scapegoat.

mtgoat666 - 6-5-2018 at 07:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  


Catavina aka Santa Inez is relatively safe, IMO. Half a dozen campers, many with old-ish trucks and/or no boats, parked in the open - not the best odds for highway gangs. The town itself has no addicts or dealers, too small.


Dont be naive. Catavina has addicts. Every town has addicts. Human nature to abuse drugs.

Alm - 6-5-2018 at 07:55 PM

Goat, what an addict would do in a town of a few dozen people and practically no tourists? He must be smoking a cow dung, to support his habit there.

bajabuddha - 6-5-2018 at 08:00 PM

Places like Cataviña, passers-through camping I believe are safe. These people were slaughtered for being ''Haves'' with a 20' boat that brings a high value target, and probably watched and stalked for a while. They were sedentary and high target. It was a robbery gone bad by bad robbers. Sad sign of the times methinks. I'd be more worried at home with a target than on the road and travelling.

That being said, Baja has now evolved into the meth and cartel world. It's not the Americano's fault; Mexico has now evolved into its' own sub-culture of crime, violence and drugs. It's what it is; no going back after Pandora wanders. Get used to it, folks. Ain't gonna get fixed, ain't gonna go backwards now... the new reality of Baja.

rts551 - 6-5-2018 at 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Goat, what an addict would do in a town of a few dozen people and practically no tourists? He must be smoking a cow dung, to support his habit there.


The Catavina "Commandante" was taken out there (actually while driving to El Rosario) by hitmen last year and it was not because there are no drugs.

Alm - 6-5-2018 at 08:19 PM

Rts - wow... things have really changed...

drzura - 6-6-2018 at 05:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Rts - wow... things have really changed...


Yes, things have changed over the years, and not for the better. It would not surprise me if the US State Department further downgrades Baja's travel advisory status and the DoD restricts any leisure travel of military personnel, especially if another one of these tragedies occurs. We'll see how I feel about our next trip coming up in July where me, the wife, my mom and dog will be hanging out for about 2 months. I'm sure we'll be just fine, but I will definitely be more aware of my surroundings and on a higher security posture.

azucena - 6-6-2018 at 07:54 AM

BB has got it right. Mexico now has a horrific problem with meth, which is being offered on every street, courtesy mostly of the La Nueva Generacion cartel. It is destroying families in Baja and many parts of Mexico.
Being under the influence of meth tends to make people do crazy things they would not do otherwise.

I feel so much for this couple and their families.

BTW, I just returned to US about a month ago, drove alone the entire penisula, no problems, but I drive an older , crummy looking Toyota to avoid being a possible target.
We are all saddened by the changes in beloved Baja, but as BB says, it's not going to go back to what it was...

larryC - 6-6-2018 at 07:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Does anyone know how long it took the police to arrive? I heard a rediculous number but would like to hear from someone present.


Woody
That's a hard question to answer because it depends on when someone was able to get through on ch 16 to the police. I got down to the scene about 10 minutes after it happened and the police showed up maybe 5 minutes later and basically just kept onlookers away from the crime scene, the police didn't go into the house while I was there.
Just to clear up one fact, yes the boat was found on the beach, but it was still on the trailer and it appeared that the thieves had tried to tow the boat away but made a wrong turn and ended up on the beach by accident. My guess is that they were not real familiar with the area so maybe they weren't locals or in their panic to escape just got confused. Just speculation on my part. Their vehicle got stuck in the sand and they had to unhook the boat to so they could make their escape.
Very bad situation down here. More details will be made public as time goes on.

rts551 - 6-6-2018 at 08:45 AM

Thanks for the update Larry.

bonanza bucko - 6-6-2018 at 08:50 AM

We sold our place at Alfonsina's after 30 years there because we got too old to maintain it buy also because it is apparent that the crime of the cities is being imported to the formerly safe and pristine boonies. Sad!

Baja will stop being a destination for North Americanos and Canadians as the word on these crimes and security problems gets out.

BajaTed - 6-6-2018 at 09:13 AM

IT APPEARS, these nice folks were targeted for their stuff and the way it happened is analogous (to me) with a stateside version of a carjacking. This means, the bad guys thought this kinda chit can take place in this locale, the folks were targeted, they had a chance to pull it off, felt the level of violence was needed and worst is they thought they could get away with it.
Best get some rope, a truck, find them M**********RS, they might last a mile trying to keep up. :(
Time for some Detroit style justice:mad: says this guy from Gary, IN
Just another day in the hood:barf:

Alm - 6-6-2018 at 10:05 AM

I love this - ordinary people hearing it on Ch16, arriving some time later, and police arrive LATER yet.

Agreed with Larry - doesn't look like they knew the area or where locals. But there was definitely a local helping locating the target. Very likely with a history of drugs use - needs to support his habit - and therefore known to the police.

About targeting the "Haves"... Addicts are crazy, whether they are high or not. Next time somebody with 10-year old pickup will appear a target worth the trouble. He is not doing risk and benefits analysis on computer - he is crazy. How much was there in the till when a punk robbed GN convenience store with a knife - a few hundred?...

bajatravelergeorge - 6-6-2018 at 12:41 PM

If Russia can annex Crimea to keep Russian citizens safe, why couldn't the U.S. annex Baja to keep American citizens safe? It's abundantly clear the Mexican government has become unresponsive to the safety of it's citizens and visitors for a number of reasons.

Lee - 6-6-2018 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bonanza bucko  

Baja will stop being a destination for North Americanos and Canadians as the word on these crimes and security problems gets out.


Doubt it.

Archie - 6-6-2018 at 01:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatravelergeorge  
If Russia can annex Crimea to keep Russian citizens safe, why couldn't the U.S. annex Baja to keep American citizens safe? It's abundantly clear the Mexican government has become unresponsive to the safety of it's citizens and visitors for a number of reasons.



Skipjack Joe - 6-6-2018 at 01:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatravelergeorge  
If Russia can annex Crimea to keep Russian citizens safe, why couldn't the U.S. annex Baja to keep American citizens safe? It's abundantly clear the Mexican government has become unresponsive to the safety of it's citizens and visitors for a number of reasons.


Russia didn’t annex Crimea. Crimea voted for independence from Urkraine after the coup.

Expatriates and Tourists at Risk

MrBillM - 6-6-2018 at 02:41 PM

Is there actually anyone here who truly believes that the U.S. government (under any administration) had or has ANY concern (other than the obligatory lip-service) for ANY of the U.S. residents living in Mexico OR those tourists who venture South ?

There is a word (actually a number of words) for that faith or belief.

The first that comes to mind is clueless.

Now, if you were in North Korea ........................

Ok, you'd likely still be screwed unless it was part of a greater (politically advantageous) deal.

One should not make any security plans or entertain any hopes which include any sort of protection or interest on the government's part.

Beagle - 6-6-2018 at 03:36 PM

Google "William Walker".

Quote: Originally posted by bajatravelergeorge  
If Russia can annex Crimea to keep Russian citizens safe, why couldn't the U.S. annex Baja to keep American citizens safe? It's abundantly clear the Mexican government has become unresponsive to the safety of it's citizens and visitors for a number of reasons.

John Harper - 6-6-2018 at 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Beagle  
Google "William Walker"


That guy stirred up quite a ruckus in 36 years on Earth. Amazing some of the parallels to today's world.

John

Putin Protection

MrBillM - 6-6-2018 at 05:20 PM

Anyone who thinks that Russia's interest in Crimea was actually the welfare of the Russian ethnic population is seriously ignorant on the subject.

The Russian move into Crimea was no different than the German move into the Sudetenland in 1938. Ostensibly, to protect the German minority, but with far different motives.

The importance of Crimea to Russia as a military wedge against NATO expansion eastward and a warm-water naval port FAR outweigh ANY consideration for those ethnic Russians.

That said, there WAS a valid argument for Russia's reassertion of control over Crimea after a long history of Ukraine being a part of the Soviet Union before the 1954 questionable transfer of Crimea to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev.

rts551 - 6-6-2018 at 05:21 PM

Well this has degenerated as usual. where is the map?

LancairDriver - 6-6-2018 at 08:21 PM

This Fox News article on the Bola murders is old news,but what is interesting is reading the comments that follow the article. If there is ever any doubt as to the impact this has on Mexico travel and consequences for innocent Mexicans in lost revenue, the majority of the comments reflect the reality of the situation, like it or not.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/05/american-couple-shot...

mtgoat666 - 6-6-2018 at 08:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
I love this - ordinary people hearing it on Ch16, arriving some time later, and police arrive LATER yet.



Well, to be fair, the people that responded were neighbors, and popo are 15 min north in town (and its a washboard road drive for the popo).
From what i heard the popo were there pretty quick, all things considered.

BajaBlanca - 6-7-2018 at 07:43 AM

The comments on the Fox news article are indeed shocking.

John Harper - 6-7-2018 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
The comments on the Fox news article are indeed shocking.


Completely normal comments for Foxbots. Most of them are definitely sad and bitter folks. Thank God they stay out of Baja.

John

chuckie - 6-7-2018 at 08:14 AM

My, aint it easy to categorize? And such wisdom!

John Harper - 6-7-2018 at 09:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
My, aint it easy to categorize? And such wisdom!


Did I forget to mention a persecution complex is rampant among them too?

John

chuckie - 6-7-2018 at 09:21 AM

I'm always amazed when someone can find the time to talk to all of the expats in Baja and determine that there are no "foxbots" in Baja...Clearly a liar....

John Harper - 6-7-2018 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
I'm always amazed when someone can find the time to talk to all of the expats in Baja and determine that there are no "foxbots" in Baja...Clearly a liar....


Someone needs their binky. Stat.

John

[Edited on 6-7-2018 by John Harper]

chuckie - 6-7-2018 at 11:31 AM

Shallow .....

Alm - 6-7-2018 at 11:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Well this has degenerated as usual.

Give guys a break :)... Staying focused for 7 pages is not a small feat for this particular forum.

Actually ...........................

MrBillM - 6-7-2018 at 11:56 AM

How much discussion can remain productive or interesting regarding the original subject ?

Virtually EVERY feasible idea regarding self-protection in those circumstances has been offered and examined.

What more could be said on point other than more of the obligatory (while sincere) "so sad" contributions ?

It is the normal evolution of thought for any post to follow the free-association path sooner or later.

It would seem that those who think otherwise might then indicate what more could be said pertinent to the event which triggered the post.

No doubt, those offerings would be welcome.

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2018 at 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
How much discussion can remain productive or interesting regarding the original subject ?

Virtually EVERY feasible idea regarding self-protection in those circumstances has been offered and examined.

What more could be said on point other than more of the obligatory (while sincere) "so sad" contributions ?

It is the normal evolution of thought for any post to follow the free-association path sooner or later.

It would seem that those who think otherwise might then indicate what more could be said pertinent to the event which triggered the post.

No doubt, those offerings would be welcome.


It's all about American Exceptionalism, and believing the world revolves around gringos, so expect this thread to continue to for a few more days, and if the victim(s) were white young Americans females, there is no telling how long this homicide story would remain a hot topic in the news and on this forum. If you don't believe me, remember Natalee Holloway's death, and they even named a syndrome why her story caught the non stop attention of the media, while non American, darker skilled girls were also killed all over the world, but didn't get the same attention of Natalee Holloway.

To me this is a common tragic homicide that happens all over the world and in Mexico, where most of those homicides are drug related. But this double homocide, seems to involve the simple motivation of robbery, that's also very common in the world, although I believe there may be more to this story than we are told.

Did I really read correctly the male victim was shot 18 times, and the female victim was only shot twice in the legs? If that's correct, it sounds like a "hit" and why did the female victim die from only shots to the leg, unless she bled out. But weren't the witnesses aware of the shooting and robbery, and quickly checked on the two victims?

So I would want to re-visit exactly the authorities exactly told the reporters and witnesses? From what I know of US media sources like the " San Diego Tribune, " is they don't have reporters in Mexico, but usually just cut and paste Mexican sources, and sometimes depend on ex-pat witnesses, although things may have changed the last few years.

Somehow I doubt the FBI is involved in this case, especially if the two victims, were cremated, and their ashes already spread out on the Bay of LA, like one of the comments claimed. If that actually happened, then I would hope the FBI, if involved to see if the victims had life insurance, and how much.

There is just too much about this story that sounds strange, but perhaps nobody is getting the straight facts here.

If it was a simple robbery, by hyped up Mexicans on drugs, the male American victim, no doubt contributed to his own demise by going out there armed with only a baseball bat. If you threaten somebody with bodily harm, even if you are protecting your material things, the other party might take exception to that, and use their own deadly force on you. Maybe, it would have been a better idea of having full coverage boat insurance.

At the end of the day this double homicide will blow over, and Mexican tourism to Mexico, will continue in record numbers, like it did in 2017, despite a jump in homicides in Mexico in the year 2017, because most people know, that killings could happen anywhere, no matter what the Yahoos say on "Fox News.




chuckie - 6-7-2018 at 02:50 PM

GEEZO...What a windbag...Next you'll be telling us that Elvis is sending in the CIA....

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2018 at 03:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by redmercury  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Fewer Americans are killed in Mexico per year than in just a few hours in America.


Well, that could be because there are fewer Americans in Mexico than in the USA. I think there are around 330 million Americans in the USA, and less than 1/10th of 1% of that in Mexico. Might that account for the difference?

I'll wager nobody from Burkina Faso has ever been murdered in Mexico. Is that because Mexico is safe for Burkina Fasoans, or that there are no Burkina Fasoans in Mexico to kill?


This guy is like Chuckie, he is an alarmist, and wants you to be afraid, very afraid of Mexico.

I seriously doubt new newbie OP, is Red Mercury, who hangs out on Mexico Politico, on Facebook, and who leans left, and posts a lot in politico forums. I think he lifted Red Mercury's name.

If this is who I think it is, he makes our Chuckie, on "Baja Nomad" seem like a Mexico lover.

Sadly, for a few people, Facebook, has been cracking down on fake names, so expect some nuts to take their act to other sites like "Baja Nomad.


del mar - 6-7-2018 at 03:37 PM

"I think he lifted Red Mercury's name."

what would he stand to gain?:?:

SFandH - 6-7-2018 at 04:15 PM

I'm hoping the Bajanomads privy to the details of this crime will post whatever they may learn and not let the noise in this thread deter them.

Does anybody know about the SUV the murderers were driving? Was it a relatively new rig or a beater? What kind of license plates?

What's the opinion of the residents about whether the criminals were locals or outsiders?




woody with a view - 6-7-2018 at 05:46 PM

Speculating does no good. If anyone knew anything solid the cops would be parading an a-hole in front of the media. I mean, first reports of 18 & 2 bullet wounds has since been retracted.

azucena - 6-7-2018 at 05:54 PM

Is it correct that a suspect in custody?

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2018 at 07:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I'm hoping the Bajanomads privy to the details of this crime will post whatever they may learn and not let the noise in this thread deter them.

Does anybody know about the SUV the murderers were driving? Was it a relatively new rig or a beater? What kind of license plates?

What's the opinion of the residents about whether the criminals were locals or outsiders?





Sorry to say, but details dont matter. It was violent robbery. The same thing happens many 1,000s of time every day the world over. The details dont matter. What’s done is done.

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2018 at 07:46 PM

I wouldn't put too much faith in what you might have heard, because these stories are all over the place like this one in the "Daily News."

"Local Mexican media reported the couple was waiting for friends on their boat when burglars asked them to surrender their property. The criminals then opened fire at them."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-american-co...

Now the "San Diego Tribune" has corrected a previous version of their article, and now say, Ray Ball's, wasn't shot 18 times, but that he was only shot 9 times, and had 18 entry and exit wounds.

Really, who counts both entry and exit wounds and comes up with a total count? Did all 9 bullets, actually exit the body? I'm still wondering about Jo Butler's two wounds to her leg?

From the "San Diego Tribune:"

This story has been updated to correct a previous version stating that Ray Ball had been shot 18 times. Authorities said he had been shot nine times, with 18 entry and exit wounds.





Reposted from Mexico News Daily

GypsyJan - 6-7-2018 at 08:04 PM

Please forgive me if I am duplicating; I got this story today.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/part-time-us-residents-murd...

[Edited on 6-8-2018 by GypsyJan]

SFandH - 6-7-2018 at 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
I'm hoping the Bajanomads privy to the details of this crime will post whatever they may learn and not let the noise in this thread deter them.

Does anybody know about the SUV the murderers were driving? Was it a relatively new rig or a beater? What kind of license plates?

What's the opinion of the residents about whether the criminals were locals or outsiders?





Sorry to say, but details dont matter.........


I disagree, but thanks for your opinion.


[Edited on 6-8-2018 by SFandH]

JZ - 6-7-2018 at 08:18 PM

Edit, never mind, I read the article wrong.

[Edited on 6-8-2018 by JZ]

Paco Facullo - 6-7-2018 at 08:25 PM

The 28 y/o in custody was the perp in this murder...

On January 8, Charles Lewis Crabtree, 75, was bludgeoned to death with a hammer.

blackwolfmt - 6-7-2018 at 08:26 PM

There you go JZ a New biz, security Drones that can shoot the perps

RIP to the victims of this robbery gone bad

Lee - 6-7-2018 at 08:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
....... but that he was only shot 9 times, and had 18 entry and exit wounds.

Really, who counts both entry and exit wounds and comes up with a total count? Did all 9 bullets, actually exit the body? I'm still wondering about Jo Butler's two wounds to her leg?


Obviously, the coroner counts the number of wounds. Is that a serious question?

The SD Tribune corrects itself for false reporting. 9 entry/exit wounds? This didn't happen. Tribune is wrong again.

Stop believing everything you read, Joe. Have an original thought.

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2018 at 08:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  


Obviously, the coroner counts the number of wounds. Is that a serious question?

The SD Tribune corrects itself for false reporting. 9 entry/exit wounds? This didn't happen. Tribune is wrong again.

Stop believing everything you read, Joe. Have an original thought.


Yes Coroners do count the number of wounds, but not so-called local authorities who are giving the number of bullet wounds of victims to newspaper reporters.

According to internet sources( chisme) that SFandH, is currently asking for more of. The word, is two two Americans were cremated and their bodies scattered in the Bay of LA, which if true would indicate to me that there was no autopsy and probably no FBI investigation.

I would back up the truck and say, Sandra Dibble, of the Tribune, most likely wasn't given information from any autopsy results.

BTW if there was no autopsy that's a big red flag to me seeing this deadly incident is now all over the news.

4 or 22 ?

MrBillM - 6-7-2018 at 08:57 PM

????????

" ........ The word, is two two Americans were cremated ......... "

azucena - 6-7-2018 at 09:41 PM

I have to say senor JoeJust Joe has a point in his first sentences.
It still remains two people lost their lives for a boat. The fact that similar needless deaths happen every day ALL OVER THE WORLD does not diminish the loss of these two people .


Skipjack Joe - 6-7-2018 at 10:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


To me this is a common tragic homicide that happens all over the world and in Mexico



It's that way to you because you never knew the people. They're just a statistic to you. For others - they either knew them or just have a greater ability to empathize.

del mar - 6-7-2018 at 11:12 PM

I think Joe is Red Mercury..........or is it Freddie?:coolup:

JoeJustJoe - 6-7-2018 at 11:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
"I think he lifted Red Mercury's name."

what would he stand to gain?:?:


I think I will answer this question, than all those other crocodile tears, and fake outrage posts, about the death of two Americans, in BOlA. Of course, if you''re a family member, or dear friend, then of course I understand the sadness, but I also understand only about 100 ex-pats, live in the area, so most of you don't know these two victims.

Of course I would say the same thing, if there was the same type of outrage about the deaths/homicides in Chicago in the urban neighborhoods, but somehow I doubt the masses here care about the senseless deaths in places like Chicago.

If it's who I think, who is playing Red Mercury, playing characters is how he gets his fun, in addition to jumping in feeding frenzy threads like this that puts Mexico in a bad light in hopes it discourages Mexico tourism. This person, also doesn't like David K, or the real Red Mercury at all.



[Edited on 6-8-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

gnukid - 6-8-2018 at 09:59 AM

Cultural values are contagious, corruption is contagious. The fact that the Nomad community values every life regardless of how close we are is a sign of our values. We seek to build our communities with these values in Baja however there are many forces that shape culture, including education, family values, societal values and respect for community rules or laws. Baja suffers from a long term lack of societal controls that support people equally whether rich or poor, so now we see the results, machine gun occurs often, high power gunfire, people go missing, politicians, police and military are indicted but rarely suffer consequences and common criminals suffer no consequences as well. Now we have a completely lawless region where kids with guns do the dirty work of larger gangs/cartels and there are no consequences. People go missing at the hands of the military or police and there are no consequences. It's one thing to hear about, or read about the next town. But when you see the sicarios arrive and gun down someone you know because they wouldn't do the work of cartels or you see the consequences such as this, an innocent, positive, contributing family to the community, gunned down for nothing other than the theft of sport equipment than it becomes quite clear, Baja has degenerated into a highly dangerous, lawless society on the brink of collapse or revolution due to corruption and it's based around lack of individual rights to protect yourself with arms and lack of rule of law. This is not going to change anytime soon and the changes that come will be hard fought with many more lost lives. It's a very sad story but one that will not change until Mexican people take pride in themselves as independent people who determine their future and no longer let corruption be the norm. Every person here on Nomads should be fighting for the resolution to this case, asking questions of politicians, police and marines as well pursue as any other clearly identified case of innocent victims.

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2018 at 11:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  


It's a very sad story but one that will not change until Mexican people take pride in themselves as independent people who determine their future and no longer let corruption be the norm.


Exactly!!

Things won't improve until the Mexican community unites with the expats and treat one another's deaths like their own.

JoeJustJoe - 6-8-2018 at 01:32 PM

That's a very arrogant post, considering you're looking down your nose at Mexico, from your lawn chair from a corrupt USA, or from behind the high walls of some Baja gated ex-pat complex while taking sips from a bottle of booze, while putting down so-called Mexican societal values.

It's no wonder some Mexicans hate gringos, and I surprise how tolerant most Mexicans are when they hear such snotty talk.

Give me a break, Gnukid, you make the Nomad community out to be "white saviors" of poor morally bankrupt, Mexicans, who lack all values, especially pride.

But I wonder Gunkid, if you personally would get off your high horse, and take on a Mexican cartel member with a AR-15, who wants your high horse?

I have a simpler explanation of Mexico/Mexican negative behavior exhibited by some Mexicans. It' has to do with poverty and various forms of poverty from situational, generational, and even abject poverty. What I don't do is blame, some type of Mexican genes, or Mexican learned values, because that would be considered racist.

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Cultural values are contagious, corruption is contagious. The fact that the Nomad community values every life regardless of how close we are is a sign of our values. We seek to build our communities with these values in Baja however there are many forces that shape culture, including education, family values, societal values and respect for community rules or laws. Baja suffers from a long term lack of societal controls that support people equally whether rich or poor, so now we see the results, machine gun occurs often, high power gunfire, people go missing, politicians, police and military are indicted but rarely suffer consequences and common criminals suffer no consequences as well. Now we have a completely lawless region where kids with guns do the dirty work of larger gangs/cartels and there are no consequences. People go missing at the hands of the military or police and there are no consequences. It's one thing to hear about, or read about the next town. But when you see the sicarios arrive and gun down someone you know because they wouldn't do the work of cartels or you see the consequences such as this, an innocent, positive, contributing family to the community, gunned down for nothing other than the theft of sport equipment than it becomes quite clear, Baja has degenerated into a highly dangerous, lawless society on the brink of collapse or revolution due to corruption and it's based around lack of individual rights to protect yourself with arms and lack of rule of law. This is not going to change anytime soon and the changes that come will be hard fought with many more lost lives. It's a very sad story but one that will not change until Mexican people take pride in themselves as independent people who determine their future and no longer let corruption be the norm. Every person here on Nomads should be fighting for the resolution to this case, asking questions of politicians, police and marines as well pursue as any other clearly identified case of innocent victims.

Valuing EVERY Life ?

MrBillM - 6-8-2018 at 01:36 PM

OK, that sounds great, BUT what is the "coin" of compassion and concern ?

While we certainly don't (as a rule) greet the deaths of innocents that we've never met with joy or (even) favor, it's hard to imagine any strong feeling of concern other than that old " there but for the grace of [insert favored deity here], go me or we ".

"Valuing every life" is one of those "touchy-feely" P.C. phrases that are often proffered, but lack substance under scrutiny.

How does one value those (strangers) lives ? What value is rendered ?

Other than satisfying the desire for self-affirmation and admiration ?

fishbuck - 6-8-2018 at 02:55 PM

Very sorry to hear about this.
Home invasion type robberies are a real threat in Baja for vulnerable old expats.
I know of several.


joerover - 6-8-2018 at 06:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


But I wonder if you personally would get off your high horse, and take on a Mexican cartel member with a AR-15, who wants your high horse?


¨A US Citizen Who Tried to Fight Corruption in Guerrero Has Been Imprisoned in Mexico for 18 Months¨
https://news.vice.com/article/a-us-citizen-who-tried-to-figh...

Some do

Joe when are you going to recognise that the problem is heroin.
If there was no heroin mexico would be a paradise, nice people, every where you look a beautiful girl with long black hair.

The brain damage caused by heroin is what causes all the probles you describe above.

motoged - 6-9-2018 at 12:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by joerover  

The brain damage caused by heroin is what causes all the probles you describe above.


Like spelling ?:biggrin:

Timinator - 6-9-2018 at 06:28 AM

Let's not forget, Mexico/Mexicans keep voting for the politician who promises them the most free stuff. Just like in the States, or further North, that just doesn't work. Yea, most are poor, and most are uneducated, but Mexico has very few people compared to the amount of natural resources they have. Everybody could be working if not for the politicians who keep them dumb and poor. As long as they keep voting for more "free stuff", nothing will change.

chuckie - 6-9-2018 at 07:15 AM

Montana Paddlefish season closed yesterday at 9 pm....jes sayin..

Paco Facullo - 6-9-2018 at 07:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Montana Paddlefish season closed yesterday at 9 pm....jes sayin..
HaHaHa

And there's only 199 day's till Christmas ......

Days to Redemption ?

MrBillM - 6-9-2018 at 08:14 AM

955 ?

JoeJustJoe - 6-9-2018 at 08:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Let's not forget, Mexico/Mexicans keep voting for the politician who promises them the most free stuff. Just like in the States, or further North, that just doesn't work. Yea, most are poor, and most are uneducated, but Mexico has very few people compared to the amount of natural resources they have. Everybody could be working if not for the politicians who keep them dumb and poor. As long as they keep voting for more "free stuff", nothing will change.


Lets not forget Mexico follows a lot of things America does, like voting against their own self interest, like in the US where the most poor, uneducated, and racist voted for Trump, and continue to blindly support him.

Mexico tried to copy the US model of capitalism, where for example, Mexico privatized the telecom industry, and created one of the richest men in the world, with Carlos Slim, but somehow like in the US, the money didn't trickle down to the masses.

NAFTA, also didn't help the masses, but it sure made multinational corporations rich, and it pushed Mexicans to immigrate to the US in any way they could so they could feed their families.


Hopefully, Mexican will abandon their neo-liberal way, conservative minded, and free-market capitalism, and instead vote for left-leaning AMLO, who will probably push for unions in Mexico, which is probably the best way to lift all boats in Mexico, like unions at one time created a middle class in America.

Marc - 6-9-2018 at 08:44 AM

This is what happens when only the bad guys have guns.

willardguy - 6-9-2018 at 08:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
I think Joe is Red Mercury..........or is it Freddie?:coolup:



will the real Slim Shady please stand up!

Unfortunately ..................... It's a BIG mistake

MrBillM - 6-9-2018 at 08:57 AM

...............To dismiss, demean, decry the Trumpian cadre as ill-educated, low-wage bigots.

Yeah, sure, you betcha he's got THAT group sewed up, BUT there are a whole bunch of otras (normal folks) who "think" that Trump is working out well on their behalf. Even when he is doing things like imposing tariffs and (possibly) starting a trade-war.

Watching a CNN segment focusing on the tariffs and featuring interviews with substantial farming operations whose business will be directly (negatively) affected by those tariffs, it was (somewhat) surprising how much confidence that they expressed in HIM regardless of their personal view of the proposals.

While D.T.'s positive numbers are still lower than previous presidents at this point, they are moving (slowly) UP and the public perception of an improving economy with decreasing unemployment could easily translate into enough support for the status quo (along with a lack of unifying opposition message and poor turnout) to guarantee that our unified government continues towards 2020.

Absent significant abandonment by those in the middle, enough of those coupled with absolute allegiance by those hardcore bumpkin bigots will "keep on keeping on" the current chaos.

mtgoat666 - 6-9-2018 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc  
This is what happens when only the bad guys have guns.


The story likely would have ended same if the good guy had a gun.
The usa has lots of guns in good guys hands, and all it gets us is the highest gun death rate in the western world, eh? :light:

Lee - 6-9-2018 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


The story likely would have ended same if the good guy had a gun.


Well, it would have ended the same for you not that you're a good guy.

In the hands of someone who knew what they were doing? Not even a contest.

Even if neither parties knew what they were doing, if the victim had come out shooting, the perps would have probably taken off.

Tom? Stop reading the San Diego Tribune.



JoeJustJoe - 6-9-2018 at 09:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
[Who incidentally is a very smart engineer who took Mexico out of the dark ages in telecommunications. You ever try to get a phone installed in Mexico before the privatization?


Who cares, who still uses landlines? I don't the future is here, and it's all about cell phones, and Carlos Slim, and his company "América Móvil" has just about a near monopoly on cell phones while will only grow as Mexicans get rid of their landlines in favor of only cell phones.

I see Carlos Slim, more as an investor stock player, than only a smart engineer. I'm actually a big fan of Carlos Slim, who is an ethnic minority in Mexico, of Lebanese ancestry like Shakira. I made a little money off his stock, AMX years ago. But at the end of the day, Carlos Slim, is a rich fat cat, who is in it for himself, and trickle down economics is unlikely to work in Mexico.

Mexico has to be very careful with "Pemex" because privatization might make Mexico's oil company more efficient, but allowing American oil companies to steal Mexico natural resources, will only keep Mexico poor.

AMLO is the best candidate to protect Mexican natural resources from theft.

del mar - 6-9-2018 at 11:41 AM

how's carlos slim tied to these murders? whats wrong with you people?:?:
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