BajaNomad

BoLA murders update

larryC - 6-12-2018 at 07:14 AM

Here is what happened as far as I can tell. I will tell you the facts as I know them and if I speculate I will also tell you that.
Facts
Thursday morning about 12 or 12:30 one of Rays neighbors heard some talking outside his house and went out to find 2 guys looking around at his garage and his boat. He asked what they wanted and they asked for water and gasoline. they were told "no" and they left. Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"
Saturday morning about 12 or 12:30 Rays neighbor hears gunshots and gets up to see what is going on, within a minute or so a vehicle races by between his garage and the next door neighbors garage headed towards the beach, gets stuck, releases the trailered boat and speeds of into the desert.

Speculation
They cased my neighbors and Rays place Thursday morning and came back Saturday morning. They knew Ray would come out of the house with a baseball bat so one of them waited at the corner of the house while the other tried to hook Rays boat to their vehicle. When Ray came out he was ambushed from the left. Evidently Ray made it back into the house either under his own power or was dragged and they followed him and shot him some more and also shot Jo. You can imagine there was a lot of screaming going on. Not sure how , when or why the dog was shot but he was found near the neighbors house. Why they drove the boat onto the beach is a little bit of a mystery but I am guessing it was a mistake because it was dark and they were not familiar with the area. They definitely were not trying to launch it as has been reported there were too many people showing up at that point. Once they disconnected the boat from their vehicle they were able to escape the scene.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I'll try to answer question if I can.

Marc - 6-12-2018 at 07:51 AM

Larry, I'll bet more than one local knows who the perps are. Including the police. Just saying.

BajaTed - 6-12-2018 at 08:29 AM

Your assumptions are probably correct.
Law Enforcement and the communities world wide face this dilemma; Something real BAD happened; the base human instincts of the 3 R's are NOW in full play for the local community.
Will any form of REVENGE take place to restore the RESPECT and REPUTATION equation to the side of the good guys and LE?
Its all evil understands in the end

SFandH - 6-12-2018 at 08:52 AM

Thanks for the update. Let us know when more info is available.

I'm going to buy a trailer hitch lock for my boat so it can't be connected to the hitch ball unless the lock is removed. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Towpower-72783-Universal-Adjustable-H...

And yes, I know, a determined thief can defeat any lock but this would surely slow them down.

[Edited on 6-12-2018 by SFandH]

larryC - 6-12-2018 at 09:04 AM

Anything to make it more difficult is a step in the right direction. The boat that was stolen from here a few months ago had 2 large outboards on it and Rays boat has a 250hp Yamaha 4 stroke on it so evidently they are looking for large outboards for use in the commercial fishing industry or drug transportation trades.

JoeJustJoe - 6-12-2018 at 09:14 AM

Larry C wrote: " Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"

So did Ray, confront these two suspicious characters, on Wednesday night, or Thursday night?

Because your post said, Ray told a dinner guest he heard noises outside his house, on the night before, and if that's true, it would mean the alleged robbers/killers, have been hanging around since Wednesday night, trying to steal a boat, they didn't even get.

SFandH - 6-12-2018 at 09:18 AM

There were three boats stolen from their moorings at Posada Concepcion (a Bahia Concepcion gringo community) this past winter. All with 4 stroke, good motors. The boats were found later beached minus motors and electronics.

DaliDali - 6-12-2018 at 09:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Larry C wrote: " Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"

So did Ray, confront these two suspicious characters, on Wednesday night, or Thursday night?

Because your post said, Ray told a dinner guest he heard noises outside his house, on the night before, and if that's true, it would mean the alleged robbers/killers, have been hanging around since Wednesday night, trying to steal a boat, they didn't even get.


What difference does it make on a Monday or Friday....??

Your nitpicking of each and every incident, and anyones account of it is silly and paints you as a chit stirrer with no other intent but to stir it more.

Fact is two people were murdered in a theft of property incident.

Just stay away Joe.....

Marc - 6-12-2018 at 10:00 AM

Back twelve years ago I was in Divisadero (Copper Canyon) talking to a Mexican about the train I just got off of. He told me the bandits who robbed the train and killed a tourist a few years previously were brought to justice by the people who own the hotel there. Not good for business.
Hey BOLA; Not good for business!

mtgoat666 - 6-12-2018 at 11:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Larry C wrote: " Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"

So did Ray, confront these two suspicious characters, on Wednesday night, or Thursday night?

Because your post said, Ray told a dinner guest he heard noises outside his house, on the night before, and if that's true, it would mean the alleged robbers/killers, have been hanging around since Wednesday night, trying to steal a boat, they didn't even get.


What difference does it make on a Monday or Friday....??

Fact is two people were murdered in a theft of property incident.

Just stay away Joe.....


Dali,
Solving this crime will require facts, piecing together the clues,...attention to detail is important :light:

Paco Facullo - 6-12-2018 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


Dali,
Solving this crime will require facts, piecing together the clues,...attention to detail is important :light:


You are absolutely right, BUT I sincerely doubt that the details that are brought up here on are NOT going solve anything ......

Except someone's anal curiosity, that is........

[Edited on 6-12-2018 by Paco Facullo]

del mar - 6-12-2018 at 11:54 AM

LAbay crooks, they got the "under cover of darkness" part down, the "shhhh,they'll hear us" part not so much.:rolleyes:

DaliDali - 6-12-2018 at 02:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Larry C wrote: " Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"

So did Ray, confront these two suspicious characters, on Wednesday night, or Thursday night?

Because your post said, Ray told a dinner guest he heard noises outside his house, on the night before, and if that's true, it would mean the alleged robbers/killers, have been hanging around since Wednesday night, trying to steal a boat, they didn't even get.


What difference does it make on a Monday or Friday....??

Fact is two people were murdered in a theft of property incident.

Just stay away Joe.....


Dali,
Solving this crime will require facts, piecing together the clues,...attention to detail is important :light:


JJJ is the last person I would EVER count on to provide facts and or details.
He was not there.
Joe's idea of facts is what he can conjure up on a keyboard without ONE iota of credibility, without one iota of situational awareness, minus one iota of objectivity nor with zero intentions of solving anything unless it deals with brown skinned Muslims.

There were some on the ground at the time.....they relayed the facts. JJJ just relays speculation and conjecture which is worthless.

You, as his BFF should know this.

larryC - 6-12-2018 at 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Larry C wrote: " Ray told a dinner guest on Thursday night that he had heard talking outside his house on the night before and had "run them off with his baseball bat"

So did Ray, confront these two suspicious characters, on Wednesday night, or Thursday night?

Because your post said, Ray told a dinner guest he heard noises outside his house, on the night before, and if that's true, it would mean the alleged robbers/killers, have been hanging around since Wednesday night, trying to steal a boat, they didn't even get.


Joe
That's actually not a bad question. I knew it would be confusing because the incident (both incidents) happened right around midnight so Ray running the guys off with a ball bat happened at midnight thursday morning and his dinner guests were over for dinner early Thursday evening so less than 24 hours after the baseball bat incident. My guess is that after the guys were run off they went somewhere to steal a car that would do what they needed it to do ie tow a heavy boat and then came back just after midnight saturday morning and did the deed. Hope that is clear.

JoeJustJoe - 6-12-2018 at 03:37 PM

Thanks Goat, for explaining why real facts are important, and why rumor, second, & third hand reports, and chisme, are really not all that important if you really want to learn what happened.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have many questions that are unanswered so far of this alleged double homicide of two ex-pats by two or more Mexicans robbers.

Then again, I watch a lot of 'CSI" and I used to watch a lot of "Quincy M.E" back in the day.

I want to know if the alleged robbers, were scoping out the property/boat, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

I want to know the exact number of bullets that killed Ray, and Jo, there are claims of up to 18 shots, to Ray, and now there is an update of only 9 shots, but 18 bullet holes. Did 9 shots really enter and exit the body? Is that even possible every shot went clean through?

Regarding Jo, there are claims of two shots to the leg, and she was found dead at the property. Was that one bullet to the leg, and an exit wound, or were there two bullet wounds to the leg? What killed her? You would think Jo, would have been still alive if she only suffered one or two gun shot wounds to her leg, because according to the story witnesses heard the gun shots, and then later went to the house. So how did she die so quickly?

What did the autopsy show? Was there an autopsy? Where is the FBI in all of this? Is there even still a Mexican investigation?

What's with the rumor by so-called good friends, that the bodies were cremated, and the ashes spread at the Bay of LA? Really?

I'm beginning to wonder if there is even an investigation, autopsy, or the involvement of the FBI?

Where are the former IndyCar driver Roger Mears, and his wife Carol? They supposedly live right next door, and Roger, and according to articles, found the bodies.

How come they are not speaking or why isn't anybody asking them questions.

So yes I have lots of questions. But I guess I could bury my head in the sand like DD, and maybe used this double homocide to bash Mexico, and say dumb things like, " this latest shooting, will be a "death knell" to Mexico, and end tourism to Mexico.

chuckie - 6-12-2018 at 04:03 PM

JJJ You have to be the stupidest critter on the planet....Strike that , Universe.....WHY is any of this even your business? aaaaaaaaaaaaah crap.....Why do I give a camel.....

BajaBlanca - 6-12-2018 at 04:08 PM

Thanks Larry for the update.

DaliDali - 6-12-2018 at 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


Then again, I watch a lot of 'CSI" and I used to watch a lot of "Quincy M.E" back in the day.



That seals it.....an amature sleuth pounding a keyboard with his TV show investigative knowledge, gleaned from hours of watching the twinkling lights of Las Vegas and hair fibers.

Simply fascinating.......

chippy - 6-12-2018 at 05:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


Then again, I watch a lot of 'CSI" and I used to watch a lot of "Quincy M.E" back in the day.



That seals it.....an amature sleuth pounding a keyboard with his TV show investigative knowledge, gleaned from hours of watching the twinkling lights of Las Vegas and hair fibers.


Simply fascinating.......




Sad thing is triple j is probably a 1000x more competent slueth than the cops down here.:(

woody with a view - 6-12-2018 at 05:20 PM

Joe has every right to ask anything he wants. He isn’t owed an explaination though. This whole chiit show in Bahia is just such a waste from top to bottom and takes a bit of the shine off the place.

Let’s hope justice prevails, somehow!

mtgoat666 - 6-12-2018 at 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have many questions that are unanswered so far of this alleged double homicide of two ex-pats by two or more Mexicans robbers.

Then again, I watch a lot of 'CSI" and I used to watch a lot of "Quincy M.E" back in the day.



I preferred “columbo” “rockford files” and “murder she wrote.”

The oldies were so much better than csi.

Angela lansbury in ‘Murder she wrote” would be good for BOLA PI.

Paco Facullo - 6-12-2018 at 07:55 PM

And here I was thinking you both were "HUGE Dukes of Hazard" fans ....

JoeJustJoe - 6-12-2018 at 08:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo  
And here I was thinking you both were "HUGE Dukes of Hazard" fans ....


No that's Chuckie, and DaliDali, who were both huge Boss Hogg, fans.

azucena - 6-12-2018 at 08:45 PM

I see it's biz as usual here

Not much factual info, but the usual suspects dissing one another to grind their repsective agendas.

Really, I don't care if that is what you want to do: go for it, but Porfavor make your own thread to grind away and let info threads be sin commentarios!

BornFisher - 6-12-2018 at 09:11 PM

Thank you for the update LarryC. Please keep us posted. Was wondering how you were alerted to this after it happened. Did you hear the shots? Could you give us here an account of your experience? Thanks.
May not quite be the "shot heard around the world", but will be far reaching. Best thoughts for the people in LA Bay.

chumlee57 - 6-12-2018 at 09:32 PM

wow, true colors shining through here, hope the b-tches who hurt these people are found and castrated. the idiots who seem to have a 'different' view, should simply be considered " different" by this board

azucena - 6-12-2018 at 09:40 PM

Ah the comments of brilliant minds

mtgoat666 - 6-12-2018 at 09:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R  


JIHAD-JOEJUSTJOE THE NUMB-NUTS LIGHT IN THE LOAFER ARAB IS A KNOW-NOTHING WHO WOULD NOT TELL THE TRUTH EVEN IF HIS LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!


Odd that you think “light in the loafers” and “Arab” are insults.
They aren’t.
But your attempts to use them as insults sure make you look like an @ss!

Btw, as a polygamist mormon fundamentalist, i would think you would have been subjected to enough religious inolerance that you would practice a bit more religious tolerance yourself...

motoged - 6-12-2018 at 09:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena  
Ah the comments of brilliant minds



Not here....:rolleyes:


Seems like mostly macabre voyeurs, armchair chest pounders, and name-calling.

[Edited on 6-13-2018 by motoged]

bajadentist - 6-12-2018 at 10:30 PM

It's really a bummer. I was there 3 days before this happened. I know a family a few doors away from where this happened. They may move away. Lo siento mex, i'll visit de vez en cuando, but i plan to retire in costa rica until you get your chit together.

Paco Facullo - 6-13-2018 at 04:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Enrique2012  
How about putting together the brain trust of JJJ, Goat, and Paco F-Tard to solve this case? I'll chip in to send them down there, not to return until it's solved.
Hey, don't throw me in the same blender with THOSE Guy's ..
I'm not trying to solve anything except trying to stop all the needless conjecturing ..

That's why I previously wrote this

"You are absolutely right, BUT I sincerely doubt that the details that are brought up here on are NOT going solve anything ......

Except someone's anal curiosity, that is........"

But, I guess I'm simply feeding the Monkeys, aren't I ........
So I guess that I am also part of the problem so I'll try in the future to not feed them.

Although it's hard not to throw in some comedy when I can....

DawnPatrol - 6-13-2018 at 06:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc  
Back twelve years ago I was in Divisadero (Copper Canyon) talking to a Mexican about the train I just got off of. He told me the bandits who robbed the train and killed a tourist a few years previously were brought to justice by the people who own the hotel there. Not good for business.
Hey BOLA; Not good for business!


I have heard rumors that the person who killed the retired American a few months ago was dealt with in the manner you are describing above.......

pacificobob - 6-13-2018 at 06:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena  
I see it's biz as usual here

Not much factual info, but the usual suspects dissing one another to grind their repsective agendas.

Really, I don't care if that is what you want to do: go for it, but Porfavor make your own thread to grind away and let info threads be sin commentarios!


thank you for your comments. i am in full agreement.

JoeJustJoe - 6-13-2018 at 07:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DawnPatrol  
Quote: Originally posted by Marc  
Back twelve years ago I was in Divisadero (Copper Canyon) talking to a Mexican about the train I just got off of. He told me the bandits who robbed the train and killed a tourist a few years previously were brought to justice by the people who own the hotel there. Not good for business.
Hey BOLA; Not good for business!


I have heard rumors that the person who killed the retired American a few months ago was dealt with in the manner you are describing above.......


Very doubtful that rumor is true, although there are sometimes vigilante groups in Mexico, who get frustrated over local corrupt police forces and take things in their own hands, but I have never heard of lone or group vigilante forces hunting down a suspected murderer and killing him because he killed a gringo ex-pat.

It sounds more like wishful thinking, because at the end of the day, it's doubtful the locals care more about Mexican ex-pats than they do about local Mexicans, whose homicides often go unsolved.

I recently saw the remake of "Death Wish" where Bruce Willis, plays the Paul Kersey, character. Maybe, in the next "Death Wish" Paul Kersey, travels to Mexico.

Regarding the comment," Hey BOLA; Not good for business!"

I don't think the bad guys care if they hurt business, and really what's a little sleepy town like BOLA going to do except to wait to this incident blows over.

BajaMama - 6-13-2018 at 07:37 AM

Was in Punta Chivato when this happened. Word got around fast to keep an eye out for these two a-holes. I hope they get caught soon.

larryC - 6-13-2018 at 10:37 AM

Just to try to answer a few questions from JJJ
The robbers were seen Thursday morning around 12:30am and did the actual robbery/murder Saturday morning around 12:30 am I am not aware of any other robber activity.
Actual number of bullets fired is hard to figure cause I have no idea how many entered Ray and didn't exit his body but just in the wall that was behind him are 3 bullet holes and 2 bullet holes in the tile floor he was standing on. As far as Jo's wounds it was reported that she suffered 2 shots to the legs. If one or both of those shots hit the femoral artery she could bleed out fairly quickly. An autopsy was performed on both bodies and you will have to ask the Mexican authorities about details of the findings. FBI, no idea but doubtful. Mexican investigation is still underway according to the meetings we have had with the authorities. The bodies were released to the next of kin and taken back the the US. The person that killed Chuck 6 months ago is in jail at this time.
Larry

Hook - 6-13-2018 at 11:19 AM

The saddest part is they could catch the perps, punish them badly............and the same thing could happen the very next day. The continuing drug problem and the lack of any real deterrent by the authorities pretty much guarantees this.

These scum know that gringos are outgunned because they are largely law-abiders and wont have a weapon that can compete with bullets.

woody with a view - 6-13-2018 at 02:11 PM

You (and they) might be surprised.

ncampion - 6-13-2018 at 02:11 PM

Has anyone looked into the process to legally obtain a handgun through the Mexican Army in order to protect themselves? Apparently it can be done. Just wonder how complicated the process is.

Hook - 6-13-2018 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ncampion  
Has anyone looked into the process to legally obtain a handgun through the Mexican Army in order to protect themselves? Apparently it can be done. Just wonder how complicated the process is.


I've thought about it but if you ever discharged one and injured or killed someone, even in a legitimate defense of life or property, you would probably have to enter the Mexican legal system and all the grief that entails. Only slightly better than death, in many cases.

chuckie - 6-13-2018 at 04:23 PM

Exactly.....Not worth it....

willardguy - 6-13-2018 at 04:34 PM

Ray might disagree.....

shari - 6-13-2018 at 05:52 PM

OMG poor Jo...what a horrific slow death hoping someone will come to help you....poor sweet innocent thing.

I know expats who own guns legally here...via a gun club.
Hell I'd prefer life in prison any day to death.

DaliDali - 6-13-2018 at 06:13 PM

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Make the call.....

JoeJustJoe - 6-13-2018 at 06:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
Just to try to answer a few questions from JJJ
The robbers were seen Thursday morning around 12:30am and did the actual robbery/murder Saturday morning around 12:30 am I am not aware of any other robber activity.
Actual number of bullets fired is hard to figure cause I have no idea how many entered Ray and didn't exit his body but just in the wall that was behind him are 3 bullet holes and 2 bullet holes in the tile floor he was standing on. As far as Jo's wounds it was reported that she suffered 2 shots to the legs. If one or both of those shots hit the femoral artery she could bleed out fairly quickly. An autopsy was performed on both bodies and you will have to ask the Mexican authorities about details of the findings. FBI, no idea but doubtful. Mexican investigation is still underway according to the meetings we have had with the authorities. The bodies were released to the next of kin and taken back the the US. The person that killed Chuck 6 months ago is in jail at this time.
Larry


Thanks Larry for trying to answer some of my questions, However, I watch a lot of Lawyers on TV starting way back with Perry Mason, Ironside, Matlock, and my favorite, "LA Law," and I have to caution you from placing the alleged perpetrators/killers, at Ray's place, starting in the early morning on Thursday, where supposedly Ray, chased them off his property with a baseball bat, and they returned on Saturday to steal the boat and to commit a double homicide.

It's reasonable to believe it's the same unknown suspects, but as far as I know there are no witnesses to the boat theft or the double murders. It could have been anyone, even an American ex-pat for a number of reasons usually involving personal business matters. This is why I wanted the FBI involved, because they would look at everything, and wouldn't automatically place blame on Mexican drug dealers or junkies.

Now some may say accusing an American of a homicide is outrageous. But I would also say, believing a Mexican boat robber, was waiting around for a couple of day to steal the boat, and murder the owners, also sounds a little far-fetched, especially if they didn't even get the boat. ( don't drug addicts want a quick fix, and wouldn't be expected to wait around for days to steal a boat?)

9 to 18 shots to Ray, including 2 shots to Jo, and 1 shot to the dog, sounds very personal, and I bet the two parties knew each other. Perhaps when Ray, was chasing the guys off his property like an old man, who chases little kids off his property, made the possible perpetrator was very upset about getting chased by a crazy guy with a baseball bat, when he really wasn't do anything........... and maybe he wanted payback?

If true, it's a very very dumb move, to threaten someone on your property, even if they look like they are up to no good. If they are breaking the law, call the police, and if they are simply trespassing, ask them to leave.



[Edited on 6-14-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

woody with a view - 6-13-2018 at 07:04 PM

Epic deduction, Watson!

Lock this thread......

Hook - 6-13-2018 at 07:38 PM

Yeah, call the police. In Mexico.

Now I am certain you really havent been in Mexico outside of an all inclusive resort.

Your posts are the definition of far-fetched, Joe.

Another thread where Joe concludes that the murdered Americans were actually AT FAULT..............

[Edited on 6-14-2018 by Hook]

JoeJustJoe - 6-13-2018 at 08:24 PM

Hook, I'm just not as hateful towards Mexico, as you are.

Hook, I'm surprised over the gun advice you gave Ncampion, who wants to look into the process of obtaining a handgun thought the Mexican army.

On one hand you tell him you could catch the perps, punish them badly, and then you imply they are out the very next day because Mexico lacks any real deterrent.

If this is true, why not advise Ncampion to sneak a gun across the US/Mexico border to his place in and use it in Mexico for self defense?

Even if Ncampion was caught with a gun, wouldn't he simply be out of jail the next day be Mexico lacks any real deterrent according to you Hook.

Then you Hook, try to discourage Ncampion, from carrying a gun, because you say, "if you ever discharged one and injured or killed someone, even in a legitimate defense of life or property, you would probably have to enter the Mexican legal system and all the grief that entails. Only slightly better than death, in many cases."

Maybe, Hook you forgot how bad the Justice system, and the cops are in the USA, ( oh wait, that's mostly for minorities) but if you shoot somebody in your home in the USA, you will be arrested, and enter the legal system, even if it's for self defense. Now maybe later, if it's proven, it really was self defense, you might walk. So I really don't know why you're discouraging Ncampion, for carrying a gun for self defense in Mexico, because the exact same thing would happen in the US or Mexico, if you claim self defense, and shoot someone in your home.