BajaNomad

holy mother of

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joerover - 8-3-2018 at 11:14 PM

Holy mother of

[img]https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/xgtwo/two_pac_0d0.png?040519[/img]

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac
Not , not 2, not 3, but 4 hurricanes starting up

Somebody copy the picture and post it up.

chuckie - 8-4-2018 at 01:48 AM

https://www.facebook.com/BajaWeatherChannel/photos/a.1919397...

BajaBlanca - 8-4-2018 at 09:45 AM

With record heatwaves everywhere, this is gonna be one heck of a year for weather!

joerover - 8-4-2018 at 10:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by joerover  
Holy mother of



https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac
Not , not 2, not 3, but 4 hurricanes starting up

Somebody copy the picture and post it up.


technical stuff, .png, 800=600,

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
With record heatwaves everywhere, this is gonna be one heck of a year for weather!

What is your prediction for the Pasayten wilderness. The last time I attemped to get there the raod, (hwy 20,) was on fire, and no luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3OyR6PM8PU



* Formation chance through 48 hours...high...90 percent.
* Formation chance through 5 days...high...near 100 percent.

Public Advisories on Tropical Depression Eleven-E are issued

[Edited on 8-5-2018 by joerover]

shari - 8-5-2018 at 07:59 AM



YOu can bet our local fishing cooperative will pull the pangas out extra early for this enormous swell predicted. Pretty rare to see 17' on the chart...it will shift alot of sand around & likely erode more of our town beach area...rut roh.

SFandH - 8-5-2018 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
With record heatwaves everywhere, this is gonna be one heck of a year for weather!


The link below shows sea temperature anomaly; i.e., the deviation from normal temps. Just click on a point to see the value (1 C = 1.8 F). The water is warmer than usual along the Baja Pacific coast. I think it's correct to say that the warmer the water the stronger hurricanes will/can be.

https://www.windy.com/overlays?sstanom,24.307,-108.984,5



[Edited on 8-5-2018 by SFandH]

chuckie - 8-5-2018 at 09:31 AM

Get DK to tell us it aint so....Then no mas problema

David K - 8-5-2018 at 09:46 AM

Why would I do that?
It is warmer... here, we call it summer. The longer we live, the more records will be broken. Wasn't it just last winter the coldest temps were also reported for many places?
It is Nature... using the sun, air mass movement, and many other factors. If it makes you happy to think humans have anything to do with global climate, go right ahead.
Have a nice day!

Have No Fear

MrBillM - 8-5-2018 at 09:49 AM

Make sure you've got Beer.

You can't reason with hurricane season.

Accept Fate. There's nothing much that you can do other than stock up and board up or giddyup if a big blow comes from below.

They say prayer can move mountains, but winds ? Quien Sabe ? A "say Hi" to the Divine Guy is worth a try.

At this point in time (and life), arguing over Climate Change is just an academic (recreational) exercise. The die is cast till we breathe our last.

joerover - 8-5-2018 at 01:51 PM

without the beer you could understand things

Jack Sparrow records in his diary, something about one hurricane after another. He makes it sound like the picture, a line of hurricanes, 4 in a row.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG_yt2KxDfE


try this one
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MYD28M

joerover - 8-5-2018 at 01:54 PM

in the last 10 minutes Ileana and 12 E came to life

blackwolfmt - 8-5-2018 at 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by joerover  
in the last 10 minutes Ileana and 12 E came to life


two_pac_5d0.png - 49kB

joerover - 8-5-2018 at 02:14 PM

Anybody know how old Davidk is?
Old timers see things in a different light.
They made change the name of this web page to old timers in baja

Water temp makes mainland Mexico, perhaps Sinola look like a fall hurricane target. Anywhere from salina Cruz to Culican really.

I just decided not to visit Guatemala in September.

https://www.windy.com/?sst,4.303,-89.297,4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbcPtrf3_NE
I like to learn history from those who were there when it happened.

[Edited on 8-5-2018 by joerover]

blackwolfmt - 8-5-2018 at 02:42 PM

Joerover sorry for the hijack, but I Gotta ask DK one thing.

So DK do you agree that mankind has been polluting and abusing the natural resources of good old mother earth for some time now???

[Edited on 8-5-2018 by blackwolfmt]

John Harper - 8-5-2018 at 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Joerover sorry for the hijack, but I Gotta ask DK one thing.

So DK do you agree that mankind has been polluting and abusing the natural resources of good old mother earth for some time now???


If you take his argument to the extreme, mankind does not have the capacity to affect climate in any way, no matter what. Think about that.

100 nuclear bombs at once? No effect. Burning trillions of tons of fossil fuels within 150 years? No effect.

Millions of tons of CFCs since the 1900's? Oops, that seemed to have an effect, since we stopped using those! What about that ozone hole, DK?

John


[Edited on 8-5-2018 by John Harper]

chuckie - 8-5-2018 at 03:39 PM

MrBillM? I liked your lil poe-em! Thanks

blackwolfmt - 8-5-2018 at 03:47 PM

I dont know about the gasses but This is enough proof for me that mankinds actions are disturbing something and I say this is the tip of the Iceberg, wait is there any IB,s left probably not, they fill all those stupid plastic bottles with em



index555.jpg - 20kB

index85.jpg - 13kB

joerover - 8-5-2018 at 11:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by joerover  
Holy mother of



https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac
Not , not 2, not 3, but 4 hurricanes starting up


Quote: Originally posted by joerover  
Holy mother of

[img800=600]https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/xgtwo/two_pac_0d0.png[/img]

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac
Not , not 2, not 3, but 4 hurricanes starting up


John churned up quick


Some how hurricanes bring out guilt feelings from the old timers of baja.

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by joerover]

joerover - 8-5-2018 at 11:05 PM




[img=800x600]
takes a couple of tries to get used to it

[img=800x600]




now what?


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by joerover]

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by joerover]

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by joerover]

David K - 8-5-2018 at 11:39 PM

Keep trying Joe... a hint: if you see a repeating set of words, remove them.

As for the other stuff, above, why do guys care so much about my thinking on global climate? The truth is I have lived long enough to see that the weather is not constant, It is hot in summer and cooler in winter, still. These are changes in weather that you like to call "climate change" maybe because you have been programmed to? As I said before, climate does change, but slowly, over centuries, not just over 30 years. The sea level was once much higher. I can show you fossil sea shells, several hundred feet above sea level. That was normal then and it may return to that height again. It has not changed enough to see over the past 60 years and that can be seen in photos for those who are not as old as I am, lol.

One volcano eruption can do a whole lot more polluting than all of man's polluting since time began. Are you going to tax the volcano, sell it carbon units, stop it from erupting? Oh, and carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, it is a natural gas that without it, all air-breathing plants would die.

I just think a lot of emotion and energy is wasted on something you can't change, namely the climate. Nature will take care of that. What you could change is how you treat others and respect others. Those are things that can affect your life... maybe make you a happier person?

A trip to Baja might do wonders... it is nice and warm down there now... soothes away all those muscle aches and pains.


John Harper - 8-6-2018 at 05:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

One volcano eruption can do a whole lot more polluting than all of man's polluting since time began. Are you going to tax the volcano, sell it carbon units, stop it from erupting? Oh, and carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, it is a natural gas that without it, all air-breathing plants would die.


How much CO2 have we sent into the air versus this volcano eruption? Since volcanoes emit massive amounts of gases and you admit can affect things, why not similar amounts of CO2 produced by man?

Let's see what the research says:

"According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world's volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide."

Hmmm.... 120 times more than ALL volcanoes, PER YEAR!!! No effect?

Also, CO2 is a poisonous gas (and a greenhouse gas) to humans, no matter what plants do with it. Did you see where those two women (1 died) were overcome last week by dry ice that was gassing off in their car? It did not take much concentration to be deadly.

BTW, I think we all just want to help out a misguided, but beloved member on this board. The beacon of knowledge cannot be extinguished!

John


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by John Harper]

Timinator - 8-6-2018 at 06:41 AM

Sorry people, but David K is right. Calling him names is the liberal way of arguing when you have no argument.

Let's be clear; there is no ground or satellite data that's been taken in any of our lifetimes that shows the earth or the oceans are heating or cooling that doesn't fall into the instruments percentage of uncertainty. That means that, with certainty, your argument is solely based on political talking points. Unlike us, politicians are legally able to lie about anything they want for financial gains and power. If there wasn't both involved in GW, or Climate Change, or whatever they need to call it this year to keep the money flowing, they wouldn't be involved in it either.

In addition, all the temperature data that was used by all the contractors who worked on the government contracts to develop the climate models used forged data to predict climate change. The original data that was collected was both incomplete and didn't meet the QA/QC standards, so it was manipulated to get the numbers they wanted. Then, ALL the original data was destroyed. Every bit of data is gone so the original data can't be checked or verified. That's why NOTHING has happened that was predicted 25+ years ago. Polar ice caps are still there, polar bears are more prolific than before, Florida sea level hasn't moved a cm much less the state being under 3' of water. It's a lie.

More records are being broken because they measure everything at more places. Speaking of measuring data. Anybody know of a meteorological station that's had no change in the topography around it for the last 100 years? It's kind of no win question, but that's the problem with trying to measure temperature over time with absolute precision. It can't be done. Everything that can absorb, reflect or re-radiate light/temperature has to stay constant. And it doesn't. It can't. Plants and trees grow, areas are deforested, crops changes, asphalt and cement happens, etc. Any roads, fields, buildings, etc been built in the last 100 years? Every time they do, it changes the areas temperature a bit. It doesn't make it hotter, it just makes it impossible to measure 1/10 of degree change over time. That's the kicker.

So, David K is more right than he even knows. You were and are being lied to to separate you from more of your money and freedoms. Since you have no argument that can be backed up with scientific data, you are just regurgitating political lies. Any yes, I am an Atmospheric Scientist.

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]

lewmt - 8-6-2018 at 06:51 AM

"Also, CO2 is a poisonous gas (and a greenhouse gas) to humans, no matter what plants do with it. Did you see where those two women (1 died) were overcome last week by dry ice that was gassing off in their car? It did not take much concentration to be deadly."

So - what is the substance you exhale with every breath? There's 7+ billion humans on the earth how many tons/day do humans expectorate every minute?

Which has a greater greenhouse effect CO2 or H20 vapor? Which is more prevalent in the atmosphere?

If there is so much concern for CO2 emissions why are the biggest pimps for climate change jetting and yachting around the world to give talks on its evil? Shouldn't they instead utilize the technology available(video conferencing, etc) to show dedication to their cause?

Why are all the climate change solutions oriented towards more Gov't control of your daily life, higher taxes of individuals & corporations or blatant scams like purchasing carbon offsets?

PaulW - 8-6-2018 at 06:54 AM

:)

chuckie - 8-6-2018 at 07:08 AM

wow....what a relief!

David K - 8-6-2018 at 07:12 AM

:biggrin:

John Harper - 8-6-2018 at 07:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
Why are all the climate change solutions oriented towards more Gov't control of your daily life, higher taxes of individuals & corporations or blatant scams like purchasing carbon offsets?


What we have now is a "government" controlled solution. Ignoring the external costs of burning fossil fuels and not pricing it into the cost of those fuels. That's basically a subsidy to the oil companies. Like drilling rights at bargain prices, oil leases, etc. All "government" control solutions, no?

If the market actually reflected the real costs of fossil fuels, prices would be much higher and make alternative fuels that much more attractive.

That's just basic economics, not atmospheric science.

Yes, we do exhale CO2, and if I put you in a big sealed bag, your own exhaled gases will soon kill you. Ever see the movie "Apollo 13", the scene where the astronauts observe the CO2 levels in the spacecraft rising? Were they worried?

Oh, I forgot. The moon landing never happened and the Apollo 13 mission was just a movie.

TIminator: Please post up some links to your published research. If you are an atmospheric scientist, you must have published some peer reviewed work?

John

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by John Harper]

David K - 8-6-2018 at 07:51 AM

The air is mostly nitrogen... If a car (or space capsule) has too much of any gas except oxygen, it will harm us. Becuase CO2 or Nitrogen is poisonous to us in too high a concentration does not make it unnatural or a pollutant. Apollo 13 was a great movie... shows that we Americans don't give up so easily.

Have a great day!:light:

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by David K]

BajaNaranja - 8-6-2018 at 09:54 AM

At least let's agree to put the "volcanos produce more C02 than humans" bunk to rest - read this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcan...

John Harper - 8-6-2018 at 10:02 AM

Exactly. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but certainly not our own facts.

John

David K - 8-6-2018 at 10:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNaranja  
At least let's agree to put the "volcanos produce more C02 than humans" bunk to rest - read this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcan...


Agree!

Let's correct it even more by saying NATURE puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than humans...
Volcanos are just one source, but not the only source and humans are NOT the major source, as the above link wants you to believe.

Here you go, from the United States Government, Cabon Dioxide 101: https://www.netl.doe.gov/research/coal/carbon-storage/carbon...

BajaNaranja - 8-6-2018 at 10:20 AM

David, kudos to you for absorbing new info about volcanic vs. man made C02 emissions, and adjusting your personal fact set. Respect!

I took another look at the Scientific American article, I don't see where it seems to want the reader to believe that humans are the major source vs. nature, I see it simply trying to set the record staight regarding this specific mis-information...

Saludos, amigo!

AKgringo - 8-6-2018 at 10:39 AM

A point of order, carbon monoxide is toxic, carbon dioxide is not! Elevated carbon dioxide levels should be read as depleted oxygen levels, which can be fatal!

A point of curiosity, I wonder where this years wild fires in California compare to what is being spewed out our tailpipes? No point being made, just honest curiosity.

SFandH - 8-6-2018 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  


A point of curiosity, I wonder where this years wild fires in California compare to what is being spewed out our tailpipes? No point being made, just honest curiosity.


Interesting question. Here are the conclusions from a highly cited study performed by researchers at the Univ. of Colorado and the National Center for Atmospheric Research:

"In some Western US states, such as Alaska and Idaho, the annual emission of CO2 from wildfire in some years equals or exceeds the emissions from fossil fuel combustion. Even in states with large FFB CO2 sources, such as California, fires can be a significant annual and highly significant seasonal component to the regional C budget.

The long-term impacts of CO2 emissions from fire are considerably different than from fossil fuel burning emissions because fire emissions are at least partially balanced over decades by forest regrowth and terrestrial C sequestration."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2203970/





[Edited on 8-6-2018 by SFandH]

David K - 8-6-2018 at 12:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNaranja  
David, kudos to you for absorbing new info about volcanic vs. man made C02 emissions, and adjusting your personal fact set. Respect!

I took another look at the Scientific American article, I don't see where it seems to want the reader to believe that humans are the major source vs. nature, I see it simply trying to set the record staight regarding this specific mis-information...

Saludos, amigo!


You bet!

How Scientific American article wants to push a blame human agenda (seems to me) is by not disclosing the very easy to understand fact that Nature (other than volcanos) pumps out more CO2 than human activity.

Good to see all sides of an issue if you can, right?

David K - 8-6-2018 at 12:36 PM

Nope... it will be glorious when new technology replaces that.

caj13 - 8-6-2018 at 02:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Sorry people, but David K is right. Calling him names is the liberal way of arguing when you have no argument.

Let's be clear; there is no ground or satellite data that's been taken in any of our lifetimes that shows the earth or the oceans are heating or cooling that doesn't fall into the instruments percentage of uncertainty.

absolutely incorrect, please get your facts straight before just spewing made up nonsence!

That means that, with certainty, your argument is solely based on political talking points.

since your original statement is compoletely wrong - that makes this a clear example of you trying to make political talking points - based on demonstrably incorrect "facts" nice try!

Unlike us, politicians are legally able to lie about anything they want for financial gains and power. If there wasn't both involved in GW, or Climate Change, or whatever they need to call it this year to keep the money flowing, they wouldn't be involved in it either.

rightwing clap trap - no data no facts, just a bunch of blogging parrots sitting in an echo chamber trying to make enough noise to obtusificate the truth!

In addition, all the temperature data that was used by all the contractors who worked on the government contracts to develop the climate models used forged data to predict climate change. The original data that was collected was both incomplete and didn't meet the QA/QC standards, so it was manipulated to get the numbers they wanted. Then, ALL the original data was destroyed. Every bit of data is gone so the original data can't be checked or verified. That's why NOTHING has happened that was predicted 25+ years ago. Polar ice caps are still there, polar bears are more prolific than before, Florida sea level hasn't moved a cm much less the state being under 3' of water. It's a lie.

again a completely made up story repeated ad infinitum by political hacks witrh no knowledge or understanding of datsa collection, analysis etc - would you care to cite a source for All of the original data destroyed? and if that were the case - where is your data coming from? and go do a bit of historical research on those predictions bucko - no scientific predictions predicted Fla underwater in 25 years - regardless of what your blogsites spew! where are you getting polar bear reproductive and populations numbers from , i would be very interested in those data, and are you saying polar icecaps are binary? either they are present, or gone?
thats a very convienient way to ignore the overwhelming amounts of data from both poles showing rapid loss if ice, but I guess in your mind an ice cube floating on the arctic ocean would be the ice cap - so obviuously no global warming?

More records are being broken because they measure everything at more places. Speaking of measuring data. Anybody know of a meteorological station that's had no change in the topography around it for the last 100 years? It's kind of no win question, but that's the problem with trying to measure temperature over time with absolute precision. It can't be done. Everything that can absorb, reflect or re-radiate light/temperature has to stay constant. And it doesn't. It can't. Plants and trees grow, areas are deforested, crops changes, asphalt and cement happens, etc. Any roads, fields, buildings, etc been built in the last 100 years? Every time they do, it changes the areas temperature a bit. It doesn't make it hotter, it just makes it impossible to measure 1/10 of degree change over time. That's the kicker.

So, David K is more right than he even knows. You were and are being lied to to separate you from more of your money and freedoms. Since you have no argument that can be backed up with scientific data, you are just regurgitating political lies. Any yes, I am an Atmospheric Scientist.
care to state where you degrees are from - and who you work for?

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by caj13]

Timinator - 8-6-2018 at 02:49 PM

Quote:


Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."

Yeah, right, if that was true, you would be on the payroll of Exxon, or some other polluting corporation, that paid you to confuse the issue, so the polluters could continue making money polluting the enviroment.


I was! Not working for them specifically, but worked on projects/policies to comply with California's various air pollution control districts and EPA standards. Including NOAA studies and the largest EPA study on climate every funded and completed in the United States (that's where the funny business happened). Actually the Degree was in Satellite Imagery and Remote Sensing Techniques which is every Under/Graduate Class in Meteorology, Atmospheric Science and Climatology plus everything they'll tell us about satellites without clearance. SDSU and I've been retired since I was 41. I'm 60 now. Have a nice day.


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]

[Edited on 8-16-2018 by BajaNomad]

caj13 - 8-6-2018 at 02:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
[/rquote]

Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."

Yeah, right, if that was true, you would be on the payroll of Exxon, or some other polluting corporation, that paid you to confuse the issue, so the polluters could continue making money polluting the enviroment.
[/rquote]

I was! Not working for them specifically, but worked on projects/policies to comply with California's various air pollution control districts and EPA standards. Including NOAA studies and the largest EPA study on climate every funded and completed in the United States (that's where the funny business happened). Actually the Degree was in Satellite Imagery and Remote Sensing Techniques which is every Under/Graduate Class in Meteorology, Atmospheric Science and Climatology plus everything they'll tell us about satellites without clearance. SDSU and I've been retired since I was 41. I'm 60 now. Have a nice day.


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]


so your not an atmospheric scientist at all - you were remote sensing? weird how that remote sensing technology and capabilities have remained the same for the last 20 years eah? no change, no improvement?

your training was to look at satelite photos and interprit them - thats a bit of a stretch from that to self declared atmospheric scientist! degree wise - BA? BS? any statistical analysis - or simply classification stuff?

Timinator - 8-6-2018 at 03:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
[/rquote]

Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."

Yeah, right, if that was true, you would be on the payroll of Exxon, or some other polluting corporation, that paid you to confuse the issue, so the polluters could continue making money polluting the enviroment.
[/rquote]

I was! Not working for them specifically, but worked on projects/policies to comply with California's various air pollution control districts and EPA standards. Including NOAA studies and the largest EPA study on climate every funded and completed in the United States (that's where the funny business happened). Actually the Degree was in Satellite Imagery and Remote Sensing Techniques which is every Under/Graduate Class in Meteorology, Atmospheric Science and Climatology plus everything they'll tell us about satellites without clearance. SDSU and I've been retired since I was 41. I'm 60 now. Have a nice day.


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]


so your not an atmospheric scientist at all - you were remote sensing? weird how that remote sensing technology and capabilities have remained the same for the last 20 years eah? no change, no improvement?

your training was to look at satelite photos and interprit them - thats a bit of a stretch from that to self declared atmospheric scientist! degree wise - BA? BS? any statistical analysis - or simply classification stuff?


I'm sorry, was this degree not adequate for you? Did you miss the every Meteorology class (every one), every Climatology class (every one) and every Atmospheric Science class (every one), both Under grad, and Grad class offered. Satellite imagery isn't reading or analyzing photo's it's the science of imaging through, and making mathematical corrections for every atmospheric condition going on in earth optical air mass and getting the image right. It takes way more than a degree in Meteorology or Climatology, you have to know all that as a precursor to understanding how light and 20 or so different imaging waves change when traveling to and from a satellite. I also designed atmospheric studies, tracer studies, dispersion studies, and wrote drivers and software to make things talk to each other that weren't designed to, I wrote software for airborne meteorological devices, and even major Doppler sites. As well as audited every EPA funded Atmospheric Station in the United States for several years. How's calling me out working for you? BTW, degrees don't mean crap or amount to crap, it's the work you do over your lifetime that counts.

lewmt - 8-6-2018 at 05:13 PM

So are any of those swirling masses of wind and water going to hit or are they just going to send in some really nice swell & green the place up a bit?

caj13 - 8-6-2018 at 05:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
[/rquote]

Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."

Yeah, right, if that was true, you would be on the payroll of Exxon, or some other polluting corporation, that paid you to confuse the issue, so the polluters could continue making money polluting the enviroment.
[/rquote]

I was! Not working for them specifically, but worked on projects/policies to comply with California's various air pollution control districts and EPA standards. Including NOAA studies and the largest EPA study on climate every funded and completed in the United States (that's where the funny business happened). Actually the Degree was in Satellite Imagery and Remote Sensing Techniques which is every Under/Graduate Class in Meteorology, Atmospheric Science and Climatology plus everything they'll tell us about satellites without clearance. SDSU and I've been retired since I was 41. I'm 60 now. Have a nice day.


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]


so your not an atmospheric scientist at all - you were remote sensing? weird how that remote sensing technology and capabilities have remained the same for the last 20 years eah? no change, no improvement?

your training was to look at satelite photos and interprit them - thats a bit of a stretch from that to self declared atmospheric scientist! degree wise - BA? BS? any statistical analysis - or simply classification stuff?


I'm sorry, was this degree not adequate for you? Did you miss the every Meteorology class (every one), every Climatology class (every one) and every Atmospheric Science class (every one), both Under grad, and Grad class offered. Satellite imagery isn't reading or analyzing photo's it's the science of imaging through, and making mathematical corrections for every atmospheric condition going on in earth optical air mass and getting the image right. It takes way more than a degree in Meteorology or Climatology, you have to know all that as a precursor to understanding how light and 20 or so different imaging waves change when traveling to and from a satellite. I also designed atmospheric studies, tracer studies, dispersion studies, and wrote drivers and software to make things talk to each other that weren't designed to, I wrote software for airborne meteorological devices, and even major Doppler sites. As well as audited every EPA funded Atmospheric Station in the United States for several years. How's calling me out working for you? BTW, degrees don't mean crap or amount to crap, it's the work you do over your lifetime that counts.


no bodys questioning your remote sensing abilities, assuming you are being accurate on that, its the jump to self procaimed atmospheric scientist, that is troubling me.

since I still have no idea what degree you actually earned - pretty tough to judge.
The fact that you are not willing to list a few publications v- seems pretty suspect to me. I'm sure you understand that scientists careers, and abilities are primarily judged by their scholarly publications, not by self agrandizing idle boasts in a webforum!
I hold you to your original quote "I am an atmospheric scientist" since we questioned you on that you have blustered about and obtusificated, and avoided every opportunity to answer direct questions and or clarify you statements -

By the way since you understand having to manipulate data to account for atmospheric differences, your claims about data not being outside the margins of error, and several other statements leads one to believe that maybe youi don't have a great grasp of post processing, standardizing and normalizing data to eliminate false variation.


[Edited on 8-7-2018 by caj13]

pascuale - 8-6-2018 at 06:03 PM

Well, as a lifelong fisherman, San Diego is becoming a more tropical fishing destination. We used to catch Albacore, the Albacore come and go through the years and have been gone for the last 10, but the past three years we have had Bluefin up to 300lb almost year round, yellowfin and Dorado earlier and longer. The water temperature is 78 degrees. It has never been this warm. Not even in an El Nino year.

shari - 8-6-2018 at 06:04 PM

So the Buoyweather wave forecast today got the village abuzz with what may happen if a 21' swell hit our shore at high tide...a few particularly high risk spots would have problems like the Leyes de Reforma fishing cooperative buildings, Palapa restaurant, and Hotel La Playa. Luckily this evening it has gone from 21' down to 15' but we shall see what develops.



Surfers were here today checking out the weather sites to figure out where to go....and where NOt to go in case there is rain with the storm. Sounds like the Hurricaine party will be here.

The waves are forecast to be very intense with the wave energy over 11,000 something rarely seen here.


But the water temps are still fairly cool up here so John may be lured over to the gulf side as often happens this time of year.

Perhaps it's time to start bets on if it will rain in Asuncion! But there is no doubt there will be a hefty swell at the least.





chippy - 8-6-2018 at 06:11 PM

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep2+shtml/212725.s...

This could definitely be a big wave maker.


blackwolfmt - 8-6-2018 at 06:25 PM

cool info on previous Baja hurricane tracks


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baja_California_Penins...

300px-Baja_California_hurricane_tracks.png - 127kB

azucena - 8-6-2018 at 06:34 PM

Just a quick comment on the "climate change arguements"

The earth's climate has clearly over millenia changed drastically.( If you are one of those true wackos that thinks the earth is only 6000 years old, discontinue reading now.)

The earth's climate will continue to change. The issue is that since the dawn of the industrial revolution, we humans have likely been accelerating changes, that have incrementally increased due to our footprints.
Like it or not, we do have an impact. Can we change a cyclic pattern that our planet has been doing literally forever? Likely no. But we sure as hell can change some of our behaviors and actions that are escalating the process. To not do so, would be grossly irresponsible.
So, quit arguing and start doing what you can as an individual.

mtgoat666 - 8-6-2018 at 06:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pascuale  
Well, as a lifelong fisherman, San Diego is becoming a more tropical fishing destination. We used to catch Albacore, the Albacore come and go through the years and have been gone for the last 10, but the past three years we have had Bluefin up to 300lb almost year round, yellowfin and Dorado earlier and longer. The water temperature is 78 degrees. It has never been this warm. Not even in an El Nino year.


Yes, BUT that ONE palm tree is still alive :lol:

joerover - 8-6-2018 at 08:17 PM


o

I have a ticket to go here, tomorrrow morning


should get there about the time the big swell hits shari
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_ep2.shtml?cone#contents

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by joerover]

joerover - 8-6-2018 at 08:26 PM

that 800x600 makes it to small to read.

Quote: Originally posted by shari  
So the Buoyweather wave forecast today got the village abuzz with what may happen if a 21' swell hit our shore at high tide...a few particularly high risk spots would have problems like the Leyes de Reforma fishing cooperative buildings, Palapa restaurant, and Hotel La Playa. Luckily this evening it has gone from 21' down to 15' but we shall see what develops.



Surfers were here today checking out the weather sites to figure out where to go....and where NOt to go in case there is rain with the storm. Sounds like the Hurricaine party will be here.

The waves are forecast to be very intense with the wave energy over 11,000 something rarely seen here.


But the water temps are still fairly cool up here so John may be lured over to the gulf side as often happens this time of year.

Perhaps it's time to start bets on if it will rain in Asuncion! But there is no doubt there will be a hefty swell at the least.





Timinator - 8-7-2018 at 05:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
[/rquote]

Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."

Yeah, right, if that was true, you would be on the payroll of Exxon, or some other polluting corporation, that paid you to confuse the issue, so the polluters could continue making money polluting the enviroment.
[/rquote]



I was! Not working for them specifically, but worked on projects/policies to comply with California's various air pollution control districts and EPA standards. Including NOAA studies and the largest EPA study on climate every funded and completed in the United States (that's where the funny business happened). Actually the Degree was in Satellite Imagery and Remote Sensing Techniques which is every Under/Graduate Class in Meteorology, Atmospheric Science and Climatology plus everything they'll tell us about satellites without clearance. SDSU and I've been retired since I was 41. I'm 60 now. Have a nice day.


[Edited on 8-6-2018 by Timinator]


so your not an atmospheric scientist at all - you were remote sensing? weird how that remote sensing technology and capabilities have remained the same for the last 20 years eah? no change, no improvement?

your training was to look at satelite photos and interprit them - thats a bit of a stretch from that to self declared atmospheric scientist! degree wise - BA? BS? any statistical analysis - or simply classification stuff?


I'm sorry, was this degree not adequate for you? Did you miss the every Meteorology class (every one), every Climatology class (every one) and every Atmospheric Science class (every one), both Under grad, and Grad class offered. Satellite imagery isn't reading or analyzing photo's it's the science of imaging through, and making mathematical corrections for every atmospheric condition going on in earth optical air mass and getting the image right. It takes way more than a degree in Meteorology or Climatology, you have to know all that as a precursor to understanding how light and 20 or so different imaging waves change when traveling to and from a satellite. I also designed atmospheric studies, tracer studies, dispersion studies, and wrote drivers and software to make things talk to each other that weren't designed to, I wrote software for airborne meteorological devices, and even major Doppler sites. As well as audited every EPA funded Atmospheric Station in the United States for several years. How's calling me out working for you? BTW, degrees don't mean crap or amount to crap, it's the work you do over your lifetime that counts.


no bodys questioning your remote sensing abilities, assuming you are being accurate on that, its the jump to self procaimed atmospheric scientist, that is troubling me.

since I still have no idea what degree you actually earned - pretty tough to judge.
The fact that you are not willing to list a few publications v- seems pretty suspect to me. I'm sure you understand that scientists careers, and abilities are primarily judged by their scholarly publications, not by self agrandizing idle boasts in a webforum!
I hold you to your original quote "I am an atmospheric scientist" since we questioned you on that you have blustered about and obtusificated, and avoided every opportunity to answer direct questions and or clarify you statements -

By the way since you understand having to manipulate data to account for atmospheric differences, your claims about data not being outside the margins of error, and several other statements leads one to believe that maybe youi don't have a great grasp of post processing, standardizing and normalizing data to eliminate false variation.


[Edited on 8-7-2018 by caj13]


The QA/QC of the instruments has parameters the data that has to fall within for the instrument to remain accurate. That's the problem with standardizing and normalizing atmospheric data, when a thermister or transducer is no longer accurate because of the harsh environmental conditions, and you don't know over a month or two's time when it drifted, normalizing the data isn't accurate enough to say with any confidence the number is correct to 1/10 of a degree. Besides that problem with almost every instrument, you had data logger failures with months of missing data, weeks, days, half days, etc., that was....made up and inserted into the data set. Wife's B-day, have to do my thing.

JoeJustJoe - 8-7-2018 at 06:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNaranja  
David, kudos to you for absorbing new info about volcanic vs. man made C02 emissions, and adjusting your personal fact set. Respect!

I took another look at the Scientific American article, I don't see where it seems to want the reader to believe that humans are the major source vs. nature, I see it simply trying to set the record staight regarding this specific mis-information...

Saludos, amigo!


Hello, Baja Naranja, I'm not sure what side of the argument you are on, but the article you linked, doesn't agree that volcanoes, cause more C02 than man, which is a clueless "denier" argument posted all over this site.

I also don't think David K, agrees with the argument in the article you linked, because he is also a "denier," who based climate change on what's going on in Baja, and some tree and local ocean water levels.
___________
From the article, and many other scientist and studies say the same thing. Volcanoes are a drop in the bucket compared to human caused carbon emissions.
------
This argument that human-caused carbon emissions are merely a drop in the bucket compared to greenhouse gases generated by volcanoes has been making its way around the rumor mill for years. And while it may sound plausible, the science just doesn’t back it up.

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.



[Edited on 8-7-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 8-7-2018 at 08:20 AM

No Joe, just not so.

Examples of the sea level unchanged for 60 years is from my 60 years living and being on many shorelines around the world... but obviously, some that I am seeing repeatedly such as here in San Diego and in various places in Baja. The first home I lived in (1957-1964) is on the beach in Del Mar... the lot and street is still where it was then, just a different house now... but still the same height above the sea. Salt flats behind lagoons would be underwater all the time rather than a few rare high tides. Harbors and boat ramps would be underwater. Big flat beaches at San Quintín would be underwater. The list is endless...

The palm tree at El Coyote is just a great example since it has been well photographed since the 1940s (where it was and still is just inches above the high tide line).

It is fine to be concerned over changes, but make sure the changes are real and also that they are not natural if you think you can change the change the change. Some things (like climate) naturally change, but over many years and not just during one's lifetime.

The real goal of climate hysteria is for more $$$, as if keeping those people employed or making the government bigger has anything to do with changing the climate, lol! I just want people here to know the earth goes on and losing your freedom (and money) will not change the climate either way. Just live well, buy 'green-friendly' products if you want and that is the best you can do. All will be fine.

Since you didn't open the link on Natural vs. human CO2 production:

WHAT ARE THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF CO2?
There are both natural carbon dioxide (CO2) sources and man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 sources.

NATURAL CO2 SOURCES

Natural CO2 sources account for the majority of CO2 released into the atmosphere. Oceans provide the greatest annual amount of CO2 of any natural or anthropogenic source. Other sources of natural CO2 include animal and plant respiration, decomposition of organic matter, forest fires, and emissions from volcanic eruptions. There are also naturally occurring CO2 deposits found in formation layers within the Earth’s crust that could serve as CO2 sources.

ANTHROPOGENIC CO2 SOURCES

Anthropogenic CO2 sources are part of our everyday activities and include those from power generation, transportation, industrial sources, chemical production, petroleum production, and agricultural practices. Many of these source types burn fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas), with CO2 emissions as a byproduct. Of these CO2 sources, electric power generation contributes the greatest amount of anthropogenic CO2 to the atmosphere.



Myth: Carbon dioxide comes only from anthropogenic sources, especially from the burning of fossil fuels.

Reality: Carbon dioxide comes from both natural and anthropogenic sources; natural sources are predominant.




[Edited on 8-7-2018 by David K]

JoeJustJoe - 8-7-2018 at 08:52 AM

David K, what happens in your little neck of the world, is largely anecdotal evidence, and really immaterial, since Global warming, is really rapidly going on in the arctic, it would be as silly as me, going down to the beach in San Diego, and saying because the water temperature is nearing 80 degrees it proves Global warming in real.

Do you want to talk about money? Follow the money trail, and ask why who has the most to gain by confusing the issue, and denying global warming is caused by man? It's Exxon, and all the polluting companies, and they only managed to get about 4% of scientist to agree with them, because they are on Exxon's payroll, or similar company. What's your excuse David K, for denying global warming is man made?

I could probably come up with 20 scientific articles that all agree that human-caused carbon emissions are merely a drop in the bucket compared to greenhouse gases generated by volcanoes, but you David K, could probably come up with a couple of dubious studies that have it the other way around.

What you're posting from the " National Energy Technology Laboratory," have already been corrupted by the Trump anti-Science administration where they have cut funding, and installed Global Warming deniers, to run the agency, and write what you just put up. Notice, they have no links to back up their data. This agency has also made wild claims about coal, that are just not true.


Bubba - 8-7-2018 at 09:28 AM

So what's the latest except a bunch of BS in this post, is Mexico getting hit or not?

chuckie - 8-7-2018 at 10:15 AM

I teenk so....(based upon no data BUT if Shari is concerned?) good enough for me....

blackwolfmt - 8-7-2018 at 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
So what's the latest except a bunch of BS in this post, is Mexico getting hit or not?





144821_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind.png - 68kB

Bubba - 8-7-2018 at 02:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
So what's the latest except a bunch of BS in this post, is Mexico getting hit or not?







Thank you!

wessongroup - 8-8-2018 at 05:33 AM

Regarding the production and/or measurement of CO2 ...

Ice core samples, which go back 650 million years are in fact conclusive



Coupled with that ... The use of oil in developing our industrial society's...



Leaves little doubt with "resonable" individuals and/or groups ... that a highly developed industrial society with significant reliance on oil has some negative environment impacts to: soil, air and water ... of this planet IMO

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup  
The only thing which will change minds ... drought and higher temps ... I only hope it takes longer than predicted.

The growth we see in our economy has a net negative to the environment and is not sustainable ... However, human success is measured in "value" monetarily ... With that fact ... nothing will change until it is life threatening and/or an immediate threat to Public Health and the Environment.

Glad we haven't reach the tipping point completely ... maybe 30 years on the high side ... IF we continue at this growth rate IMO

Not sure where are going to fit all the people on the planet ... must say Russia is big ... the winters can be harsh ... but then it might be like FL with the changes ... With the possibility of an ice age developing :biggrin::biggrin:

Science is a tough sale when it comes to "bottom line" ... trust me


The first graph is from National Geo .. the second is from API

https://www.api.org/about






[Edited on 8-8-2018 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 8-8-2018 at 06:30 AM

Those are very damning charts there Wesson, that shows C02 levels rising through the roof from 1950 on, compared to all those other years including the pre-industrial years.

But if I were to make a "denier" argument, I would just say, Al Gore, made up those charts, or that Volcanoes were probably really active the last few decades, and that we should just continue to pollute the Earth, as we wait for Armageddon.

Timinator - 8-8-2018 at 07:24 AM

Ice Cores are one tool, but they are far from perfect by themselves. Ice Cores from different regions, which are supposedly from the same era/time, don't show the same thing. They are very good indicators at one site/region, but they don't always correlate to other regions/Ice Cores at the same "time" globally (big problem). That's been the problem. Besides, increases in CO2 doesn't always correlate with increased temperatures and nobody knows why. The last Ice Age 15K years ago had CO2 consistent with today in "most" Ice Core readings, but we had an Ice Age. We don't know why we had an Ice Age, and we don't know why it stopped. We just don't know. What we do know is now we are still coming out of an Ice Age. So, yes, temps are always going to be warming. I know, we're warming faster, than before, or are we? We've been told were having more frequent and bigger hurricanes too, but we're absolutely are not. We've been told a lot of chit by politicians and government that's just not true. They haven't even been consistent on what we should eat, that's literally flip-flopped 3 times in my lifetime. So, believe what you will, I honestly don't care. Having worked on government projects, I will never trust them to tell you the truth, because very few of them, if any, know the truth, and that's been the most consistent fact throughout my life.

John Harper - 8-8-2018 at 07:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Having worked on government projects, I will never trust them to tell you the truth, because very few of them, if any, know the truth, and that's been the most consistent fact throughout my life.


Some people you could never convince the sun rises in the east.

And, what is the truth if you deny everything?

John

JoeJustJoe - 8-8-2018 at 07:42 AM

Hey Timinator, since you claim, you're an Atmospheric Scientist, that I'm having a real hard time believing.

Why don't you ever have any links to scientific studies to back up what you're saying about our climate? It's all about citing your sources.

Timinator wrote" I am an Atmospheric Scientist."





[Edited on 8-8-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

caj13 - 8-8-2018 at 07:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
I. The last Ice Age 15K years ago had CO2 consistent with today in "most" Ice Core readings, but we had an Ice Age. We don't know why we had an Ice Age, and we don't know why it stopped.


Hey Timmy, since your cedibility has taken such a big hit thatnks to - well lets call them "mistatements", minor stuff like claiming to be a atmospheric scientist - then having to walk that back, and numerous other claims. and ignoring the request for simply posting a link to a couple of your peer reviewed papers on climate change?
I'm here to help you Timmy:

so lets make this real simple and direct
got a source for the following statements, the easy ones, the ones I highlighted by using red text??
"In addition, all the temperature data that was used by all the contractors who worked on the government contracts to develop the climate models used forged data to predict climate change. The original data that was collected was both incomplete and didn't meet the QA/QC standards, so it was manipulated to get the numbers they wanted. n addition, all the temperature data that was used by all the contractors who worked on the government contracts to develop the climate models used forged data to predict climate change. The original data that was collected was both incomplete and didn't meet the QA/QC standards, so it was manipulated to get the numbers they wanted. Then, ALL the original data was destroyed. Every bit of data is gone so the original data can't be checked or verified.[/color] That's why NOTHING has happened that was predicted 25+ years ago. Polar ice caps are still there, polar bears are more prolific than before, Florida sea level hasn't moved a cm much less the state being under 3' of water. It's a lie. That's why NOTHING has happened that was predicted 25+ years ago. Polar ice caps are still there, polar bears are more prolific than before, Florida sea level hasn't moved a cm much less the state being under 3' of water. It's a lie.

can you give me a citation where I can verify your claims?

caj13 - 8-8-2018 at 08:07 AM

hey Timmy,

I'm a bit confused. every graph and piece of data I can find (based on ice core samples) indicate during the last Ice age atmpspheric co2 levels were about 200 ppm, now they are 400 ppm.

yet you claim: The last Ice Age 15K years ago had CO2 consistent with today in "most" Ice Core readings, but we had an Ice Age.

obviously I'm either reading the graph wrong, or you know of some data that contradicts that? care to point me in the right direction?


[Edited on 8-8-2018 by caj13]

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by caj13]

wessongroup - 8-8-2018 at 10:11 AM

"The atmosphere of Earth is the layer of gases, commonly known as air, that surrounds the planet Earth and is retained by Earth's gravity. The atmosphere of Earth protects life on Earth by creating pressure allowing for liquid water to exist on the Earth's surface, absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation, warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night (the diurnal temperature variation)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

Now just add additional "atoms" in very large qualities outside these parameters and what does one get back from those additions ... Some rather basic Chemistry and Physics IMO ... :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by wessongroup]

Timinator - 8-8-2018 at 12:58 PM

Exactly what I said, depends on where you take the ice core samples from. They all don't reflect the same PPM of CO2 for the last ice age. Ice core samples CO2 amounts vary by region. It's easy to do what you're doing base it all on one ice core that fist your hypothesis/agenda. Al Gore is great at using a single data points to support his claims. Get them all to say the same thing, that's been the problem.


My statements about data being fudged are by the following company(s). Westec Services, ERCE Environmental, Odgen Environmental. All of which I worked at and which were bought out by bigger and bigger companies over 10 years. I know the data was fudged because I was one of few people who were tasked at filling in the missing data. I'm just telling you from first hand knowledge. This was how it was done because it kept the company in the running for followup work. If we failed to produce the data we were being paid to, we would never get another contract and/or have to pay to do the study again ourselves or go out of business. However, there was no mention of GW then, and when the boss holding the doctorate in Meteorology says we need to have data for those times, you give him data. Straight out of college travelling all over living the dream, you do what you're told.

The data that's taken, depending on the type and instrumentation, is taken from every few seconds to every minute. That is the "RAW" data. From that data, the requirements in the contracts state we're to make 1 hour averages and that's what get's reported. In some cases, we were missing weeks of data that got just best guessed and filled in. In other cases, it was found the instrumentation itself overheated in their enclosures and pushed data so far out of it's range of QC standards, we fudged it back within, made up acceptable 1 hour averages and moved on.

As far as the temperature data set for the GW Models was concerned, it was the temperature data set from an EPA Study on Acid Rain. This study was the largest and most complete every conducted in the United States. However, when it was all said and done, most of the Data did not meet the QA/QC Standards that were required of the study so the data WAS NEVER USED. However, along comes Global Warming and they needed data. They had no requirements and they needed lot's of temperature data so that's the data set they used. And that's the fact. The original data after averaged into 1 hour averages is pretty much junked. There is no going back. You can ask your GW buddies and gurus "where's the beef" and they can point to 1 hour averages but not the raw data, it's gone because it never met the QA/QC of the original project.

Those companies mentioned above worked on several aspects of the temperature data collection including; designing the study, executing the installation of the meteorological stations, data collection and analysis, and auditing the stations bi-monthly (should have been at least every month). But you never audited the stations you installed, nor did you audit the stations you took data from, that was done by another company. It's was such a large project that a dozen companies were involved all over the United States.

As GW came on the scene, many of the same companies worked on segments of the GW Model. Our company was one of them. That's how I know what data set was used, also because there were only 6 or 7 of us in the Air Quality Division of the company. That's how it worked back then. There wasn't millions or 100's of millions of dollars of AQ work going on. That one EPA Acid Rain study was the biggest every and way too big for any one company because no one company had a staff of a 100 or so air quality and atmospheric specialists, so it had to be divided up across regions of the United States.

I'm real sorry you can't Google your balls off on all of this, but not everything that got done back then people know about. It's easy to Google anything to fit any agenda you have though. Unlike the ball busters here with no first hand knowledge whatsoever, that's not what I'm doing. I'm giving it to you straight exactly that way it happened. I don't think I could honestly make this all up if I tried.

The raw data that GW Models used to predict GW and separate you from you money and freedoms does not exist. Period. Maybe you should try asking Al Gore to prove it? That is why no prediction made then, or ever, has panned out or happened. They keep tweaking the Models every year with first hand knowledge and ground data, and STILL they can't predict a thing. Fact.

Although I enjoy this to a point, it's really getting a big personal and grating. Like most liberals you get too personal do all the name calling BS, so enjoy your life and Baja.

John Harper - 8-8-2018 at 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Like most liberals you get too personal do all the name calling BS, so enjoy your life and Baja.


There you go again, an unsubstantiated opinion. I read all the posts in this thread, no one has called you names. Perhaps questioned your credentials as an "Atmospheric Scientist," but you are the one who put that out there for question. Again, no name calling I've seen.

And, it's quite a reach to generalize "liberals" as the only name callers. I thought you conservatives love using the word "snowflake", making a pejorative out of "liberal", and "progressive?" Et tu, Timinator?

John

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by John Harper]

joerover - 8-8-2018 at 03:18 PM

the oil company bought the patent for electric cars in 1907. 25 mph, 125 miles on a charge. No permiso.

About 100 years later the electric car company wants to try again.



[Edited on 8-8-2018 by joerover]

joerover - 8-8-2018 at 03:21 PM

Is this a hurrican thread?

or


try to explain something to an old dog thread.

bajabuddha - 8-8-2018 at 04:07 PM

Surely Dawg, you really don't expect Nomania to stay on topic for more than three quarters of the first page now, do ya?

*hint* ~ See Shari's thread on Hurricane John.... but you better hurry, it's at 3/4's now. :biggrin:

AKgringo - 8-8-2018 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
Surely Dawg, you really don't expect Nomania to stay on topic for more than three quarters of the first page now, do ya?

*hint* ~ See Shari's thread on Hurricane John.... but you better hurry, it's at 3/4's now. :biggrin:


I was just thinking about going to that thread and posting some fun facts about the water temps around Juneau!

It ain't Baja, but that never stopped a hijack before. Beside that, this thread is full! :P

caj13 - 8-8-2018 at 05:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Exactly what I said, depends on where you take the ice core samples from. They all don't reflect the same PPM of CO2 for the last ice age. Ice core samples CO2 amounts vary by region.


I have seen data from 4 different core sample sites, all of em seem to be pretty consistant. would you care to point out a few who show co2 levels the same from now to 15K years ago?

Whither Ways the Weather ?

MrBillM - 8-8-2018 at 09:18 PM

Heaven KNOWS, But I've been TOLD .....................

As one who communicates (at Least) daily with the Divine Dude (and Master Meteorologist), he confided to me that he's just having fun messing with minds.

Giving the Sin Folk a little taste of what waits on the other side if they don't fall in line.

bajaric - 8-9-2018 at 04:34 AM

Funny how the issue of global warming comes up on this forum over and over. Let me say this. The earth has been warming up for the last 15,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

However, according to the article above, many times over the last 450,000 years the earth has been FROZEN, a condition closely correlated with the tilt of the earth's axis. Fortunately (for the human race, anyway) in the last 15,000 years it has been warming up. The question is whether or not human activity is accelerating the current warming trend. I tend to be skeptical of anything the media reports because its the media's job to SENSATIONALIZE. Killer Bees! Tijuana sewage! West Nile Virus! Global Warming!!!! The general population, most of whom are too stupid to realize that tailgating the bumper of the car ahead of them on the freeway will not get them where they are going any faster, accepts as fact whatever they hear on the news.

Even if humans ARE causing the planet to heat up faster, its a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Am I going to sit in a puddle of sweat while my neighbor runs his A/C at 72 degrees? Will Al Gore stop jetting around the globe giving lectures because he feels guilty about his carbon footprint? Yeah, put that nuclear power plant next door, cut down on the CO2. Only a decrease in the human population will change the situation. And, if you read the article above, the odds are that it will be another ice age that does it, perhaps sooner than later. Ice ball earth, anyone?

John Harper - 8-9-2018 at 05:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Funny how the issue of global warming comes up on this forum over and over. Let me say this. The earth has been warming up for the last 15,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

However, according to the article above, many times over the last 450,000 years the earth has been FROZEN, a condition closely correlated with the tilt of the earth's axis. Fortunately (for the human race, anyway) in the last 15,000 years it has been warming up. The question is whether or not human activity is accelerating the current warming trend. I tend to be skeptical of anything the media reports because its the media's job to SENSATIONALIZE. Killer Bees! Tijuana sewage! West Nile Virus! Global Warming!!!! The general population, most of whom are too stupid to realize that tailgating the bumper of the car ahead of them on the freeway will not get them where they are going any faster, accepts as fact whatever they hear on the news.

Even if humans ARE causing the planet to heat up faster, its a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Am I going to sit in a puddle of sweat while my neighbor runs his A/C at 72 degrees? Will Al Gore stop jetting around the globe giving lectures because he feels guilty about his carbon footprint? Yeah, put that nuclear power plant next door, cut down on the CO2. Only a decrease in the human population will change the situation. And, if you read the article above, the odds are that it will be another ice age that does it, perhaps sooner than later. Ice ball earth, anyone?


This is where my REAL Economics degree* comes in handy. To quote famous economist John Maynard Keynes:

"In the long run, we are all dead."

John

*UCSD, 1980

BajaMama - 8-9-2018 at 06:20 AM

There IS data that shows an alarming exponential rate of global warming that is unprecedented. Never happened before. EVER. And there is a direct correlation to the burning of fossil fuels starting in the nineteenth century. We have two choices: acknowledge it or keep our heads buried in the sand. But at this point it really does't matter - we have gone too far to turn it back. Change should have been made 30 years ago when scientists first started ringing alarm bells. So enjoy the fires and hurricanes, not gonna get better.

chuckie - 8-9-2018 at 06:37 AM

Baja Mama....I agree with you!

woody with a view - 8-9-2018 at 06:39 AM

Is 7+ Billion mouth breathers enough? How many are too many? THAT is the question!

SFandH - 8-9-2018 at 06:41 AM



Excellent, high-quality, 45-minute video about rising oceans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp6_sDiup6U



[Edited on 8-9-2018 by SFandH]

Rolling the Divine Dice

MrBillM - 8-9-2018 at 08:55 AM

Accept and adjust. The Heap Big Sky Guy is running the game.

I often say "Harvey (he likes to be called that by those of us close to him). How is this going to play out ?"

His usual reply is " Bill, No worries, mate. It's all a tease. A brief inconvenience. It will end soon enough and you'll be drinking beer and playing Cribbage with me while a lot of others will be down in the Diablo District shoveling coals into the furnace for eternity. The joke's on them. Serves them right for not listening to you and me. It's all good, man. "

Enjoy the ride. It's all part of the plan.


JoeJustJoe - 8-9-2018 at 09:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Funny how the issue of global warming comes up on this forum over and over. Let me say this. The earth has been warming up for the last 15,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

However, according to the article above, many times over the last 450,000 years the earth has been FROZEN, a condition closely correlated with the tilt of the earth's axis. Fortunately (for the human race, anyway) in the last 15,000 years it has been warming up. The question is whether or not human activity is accelerating the current warming trend. I tend to be skeptical of anything the media reports because its the media's job to SENSATIONALIZE. Killer Bees! Tijuana sewage! West Nile Virus! Global Warming!!!! The general population, most of whom are too stupid to realize that tailgating the bumper of the car ahead of them on the freeway will not get them where they are going any faster, accepts as fact whatever they hear on the news.

Even if humans ARE causing the planet to heat up faster, its a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. Am I going to sit in a puddle of sweat while my neighbor runs his A/C at 72 degrees? Will Al Gore stop jetting around the globe giving lectures because he feels guilty about his carbon footprint? Yeah, put that nuclear power plant next door, cut down on the CO2. Only a decrease in the human population will change the situation. And, if you read the article above, the odds are that it will be another ice age that does it, perhaps sooner than later. Ice ball earth, anyone?


I hear you about sensationalized news, especially when it comes to the dangers of Mexico, you didn't even mention. However, I have to ask why be so suspicious of the media, while saying nothing about the polluting corporations, like Exxon, the Koch Brothers, and right wing think thanks that pay big bucks to confuse the issue, because they have a vested interest to do so?

I also don't worry about my neighbors A/C, but I liked the fact that state officials, federal regulators, environmentalists, and Obama, were going to force auto makers to make their new cars average 54.5 mpg before Trump, rolled that back. I also like cleaner diesel trucks, and buses in our cities that burn clean fuel.

So really I don't understand, why conservatives and deniers, want to carry the water buckets for the Koch brothers, and polluting companies like Exxon, or even the automakers like GM, when we have the technology to make this a cleaner planet?
________________________

A colorful cast of characters has made a living out of denying the science of climate change. These so-called “experts” often start out their statements with “I’m not a climate scientist, but…” before launching into a series of carefully rehearsed talking points meant to confuse the public on the climate change issue. Many of them are well-paid operatives of organizations like The Heartland Institute, CFACT, and Americans for Prosperity, which take contributions from fossil fuel corporations — including ExxonMobil,the Koch Brothersand their company Koch Industries — who seek to delay or block any substantial government policy initiatives meant to curb fossil fuel emissions or hasten the rapid growth of cheaper, cleaner sources of energy like wind and solar power.

https://www.beforetheflood.com/explore/the-deniers/top-10-cl...

caj13 - 8-9-2018 at 11:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  


I cut out a bunch of stuff - refer back if you want to read it.

So really I don't understand, why conservatives and deniers, want to carry the water buckets for the Koch brothers, and polluting companies like Exxon, or even the automakers like GM, when we have the technology to make this a cleaner planet?
________________________

just a note, Ford & GM have both come out against the rollback of the higher mileage standards. One reason specifically, is because it keeps cheap chinese cars from entering the marketplace here in america. it actually functioned as an effective "tariff" keeping low cost (high polluting) competitors out. That goes away, and of course we can put high tarriffs on the imports - but then again, perhaps you ought to know where GMs #1 market is, in terms of sales! so retaliation - uh thats not something USA automakers want to see!

chuckie - 8-9-2018 at 12:13 PM

Would you please point us to a specific where GM has come out against a higher mileage standard? I bought a Chevy "Spark" last week, made in Korea....It got 41.2 MpG,on the trip back from Colorado Springs..When I looked this morning, still had a Chevy Bow tie on it....

JoeJustJoe - 8-9-2018 at 12:51 PM

I may have been premature believing GM, was for the Trump's rollbacks, but I see nothing about what Caj13, claims, it's because they want to keep Chinese cars out of the US market, as some kind of functioning tariff.

The fact is GM and Ford, are still evil companies who wanted the Trump administration to weaken standards, but they fear the roll back because of uncertainty and future lawsuits. The car companies also want one standard for all 50 states, and GM believes their electric cars are the future, like the one Chuckie, is riding around on. ( I can't picture it)
___________________________________
From the article:

It’s a classic case of be careful what you wish for. Automakers asked the Trump administration to weaken emissions and efficiency standards for cars and light trucks, and are now anxious about just how much the Trump administration actually plans to weaken the standards.

On Friday, May 12, heads of car companies visited the White House, to make the awkward request that Trump not actually give them what they asked for.

In late April, a draft of a joint Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Department of Transportation (DOT) plan leaked, signaling the administration’s intent to halt increases in fuel efficiency (or CAFE) standards after model year 2021, and to perform a legal end run around California’s authority under the Clean Air Act to set its own greenhouse gas emissions standards for personal vehicles.

Fearing years of litigation from states — including California and at least a dozen others — and indefinite regulatory uncertainty, the automakers were quick to announce that they aren’t seeking such a radical rollback from the current program.

“We are not asking the administration for a rollback,” said Bill Ford, chairman of Ford Motor Co., at the company’s annual meeting last Thursday. “We want California at the table, and we want one national standard.”

https://www.desmogblog.com/2018/05/14/rollbacks-automakers-a...

SFandH - 8-9-2018 at 01:12 PM

From what I've read, the main concern for the car manufacturers is a nationwide set of rules. California gets to make its own regulations, with some restrictions, and many states follow California's lead. I doubt CA will rollback current environmental regs even if the Feds do. Court battle coming up?

http://environment.law.harvard.edu/2018/06/california-cafe-s...


chuckie - 8-9-2018 at 01:14 PM

JJJ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..The SPARK is NOT an ELECTRIC car, nor is it HYBRID...Plain old Chevy ETEC 4banger JJJ spouts this garbage as if it were Gospel...EVERYTHING he says is suspect....





[Edited on 8-10-2018 by BajaNomad]

chippy - 8-9-2018 at 01:22 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark

Not all sparks are alike.


JoeJustJoe - 8-9-2018 at 03:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
JJJ is dumber than aload of rocks..The SPARK is NOT an ELECTRIC car, nor is it HYBRID...Plain old Chevy ETEC 4banger JJJ spouts this garbage as if it were Gospel...EVERYTHING he says is suspect....


Oh sorry, I got it confused with the Chevy Bolt EV.

I still can't picture you in a Spark, it looks like a very cheap car, some father might buy for his daughter, as her first car.

I picture you Chuckie, in a used Ford F-150, with a Confederate flag flying in the back.

Hot Damn

MrBillM - 8-9-2018 at 04:15 PM

Blah, Blah, Blah.

People seem to find the Global Warming debate a captivating way to establish their political credentials while feeling good about themselves and their pitiful efforts as they bash those who disagree.

Knowing that they will be long dead before there's any sort of resolution to any problems and, therefore, it's something that can be argued until they lapse into mindless senility or stop breathing.

There's a "Snowballs Chance in Hell" of ANY minds being changed.

Which, of course, is what makes it such a great Party debate subject.

Breaking news: Hell is cooling!

AKgringo - 8-9-2018 at 04:22 PM

"Theologians are concerned that the random appearance of snowballs in hell indicate that there is an increasing loss of heat to the Earth's surface!"

Film at 11:00!

Timinator - 8-9-2018 at 08:08 PM

Find me someone with more credentials than this guy who's not paid a dime who says the predictions of Global Warming are true. He's doing it because he wants you to know the truth. Nothing more.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1947083335334513/

[Edited on 8-10-2018 by Timinator]

JoeJustJoe - 8-9-2018 at 11:43 PM

Lets cover, Dennis Prager, first, before I get to that other guy, that Timinator, believes isn't getting a dime, for claiming Global Warming is not cause by mankind.

Dennis Prager, is right up there with Alex Jones, and "Infowars.
______________________

Dennis Prager is a neoconservative radio host, professional tone troll, and conspiracy theorist who believes that the United States is a Christian nation, and that it's under attack from "secular leftists" who control the media, universities, public education system, and other institutions. Despite being a fairly extreme conservative, to the point of being a weekly WND columnist, he does moderate on certain issues such as abortion and, to his credit, he does seem to know quite a bit about religion and aspects of United States history.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dennis_Prager

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 04:30 AM

NOBODY cares....about Dennis Prager

paranewbi - 8-10-2018 at 05:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
NOBODY cares....about Dennis Prager


Actually Prager's videos are approaching 1 B (yes B) Billion views.

Now back to your B session...

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 05:36 AM

Like I said Who cares?Now back to your "I care" nosh

John Harper - 8-10-2018 at 06:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi  
Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
NOBODY cares....about Dennis Prager


Actually Prager's videos are approaching 1 B (yes B) Billion views.

Now back to your B session...


Not surprised 12% of the world is willfully ignorant. 30% of our country demonstrably are as well.

Add that 30% to Goat's estimate that 70% of us are drunks. No wonder we have problems. We're drunk, ignorant, or both.

John


[Edited on 8-10-2018 by John Harper]

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 07:20 AM

Overeducation is a factor as well.American industry started to decline when MBA's ascended in the management ranks....

JoeJustJoe - 8-10-2018 at 07:40 AM

The other nut, William Happer, Princeton Physics professor, Timinator, was talking about on the video, where Timinator, claims, he doesn't take a dime for his global warming denier views.

Greenpeace, busted William Happer, in a sting operation, where Happer, was for sale by the hour, to write a report for them if the money was right.

Get this, William Happer, claims rising C02 levels is actually a good thing!

This guy does have the credentials but he is not a climate scientist, and it's obvious that he is just another hired gun paid to deny the truth about global warming.
________________________________________

Greenpeace exposes sceptics hired to cast doubt on climate science

Sting operation uncovers two prominent climate sceptics available for hire by the hour to write reports on the benefits of rising CO2 levels and coal

An undercover sting by Greenpeace has revealed that two prominent climate sceptics were available for hire by the hour to write reports casting doubt on the dangers posed by global warming.

Posing as consultants to fossil fuel companies, Greenpeace approached professors at leading US universities to commission reports touting the benefits of rising carbon dioxide levels and the benefits of coal. The views of both academics are well outside mainstream climate science.

The findings point to how paid-for information challenging the consensus on climate science could be placed into the public domain without the ultimate source of funding being revealed.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/08/greenpea...



NOBODY CARES ??????

MrBillM - 8-10-2018 at 08:53 AM

EVERYBODY CARES.

On BOTH sides.

Or, so they say.

And, if ALL of that caring could be brought together in a giant compressed ball of cosmic energy .............................. it wouldn't mean much.

The future of efforts to reduce mankind's negative impacts on the environment will ALL come down to $$$$$$$$$$$ and be decided WAY above our pay-grades.

It's fun reading, though. And, the various dueling color graphs are neat.

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