BajaNomad

Water, wells and aquifer overdraft

thebajarunner - 8-24-2018 at 04:33 PM

The water woes at Baja Cactus (on another thread with an unfortunate title) bring to mind some of my experiences and observations relative to water.
Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of our precious water.
Now the dim bulbs at the State Water board think it would be a real good idea to send 50% of our clean mountain water out to sea to support a dwindling salmon population.
Now, mind you, I really like salmon, but eating the produce of the valley and seeing the jobs it supports is a lot more important than saving a couple thousand fish.
Here comes the real problem.
When river water is not available the desperate farmer starts drilling. Deep!!
And then the ground starts to drop, the neighbors start losing their wells, they drill deeper, and on it goes.

In Baja I know the folks at Rancho Santa Marta in San Vicente.
Years ago their fairly shallow well was struggling, the quality was not so good, so they put in applications for a deep well, since they are farming some 600 acres in addition to the orphanage and school. Most of what they produce is "dry" farming, winter crops that depend on rain. When after several years they got their permit the government put a meter on the well, they did not use as much water as they had predicted, and they were warned to use more water or lose rights to the well. Just over the hill you will note that LACetto has a massive vineyard, obviously irrigated by deep wells. The question is not if the water will last, but simply when will it be exhausted.

When I first raced the 1000 we saw very lush farming around Villa Constitucion. Years later I heard that when the water table had dropped to about 2500 feet they were no longer able to sustain any pumping and lost much of this farming.

So, now to El Rosario. When I see the entire river valley being farmed I know that the wells are sustaining the crops, but for how long? And how much impact on the town people of El Rosario? Sad to see all of those school buses coming up from you know who, down in San Quintin and drawing down the water table. Go just a few more miles over the mountain south and see the farms (with the same school buses) emerging in the valleys and the local areas. Again, how long will that aquifer sustain this level of draw down?

Anyone wonder why Baja Cactus and the homes around are out of water?
Just check out the green fields under the big bridge.

I understand progress. Hey, I am a real estate developer, I catch lots of heat from environmentalists. But, we never build where the basic necessities cannot be sustained. And today I see the large commercial farming interests coming in, drilling, drawing down, and then bailing out, whilst the local folks contemplate just how to sustain their own basic lifestyles.

End of rant.... I hope

mtgoat666 - 8-24-2018 at 05:30 PM

As global warming and overpopulation destroy our desert aquifers, we will all participate in reverse western expansion. My ancestors came to California from east on a covered wagon. After West is a wasteland, My progeny will move back east via tesla covered wagon
:biggrin:

woody with a view - 8-24-2018 at 05:38 PM

Are 7 Billion humans enough?

David K - 8-24-2018 at 05:43 PM

Global warming or cooling (whatever it is currently) is of little matter when what you want is rain... cool weather rain or warm weather rain.

Here was the bridge at El Rosario just 8-1/2 years ago (when we were in "Global Warming" according to a "consensus of scientists")...



Colonet:



Santo Domingo River (Colonia Guerrero:



How quickly people forget. These kind of floods happen every 20 years or so.

Paco Facullo - 8-24-2018 at 05:52 PM

Save water,,,, Drink more Beer...................

thebajarunner - 8-24-2018 at 05:53 PM

David, I remember that mess
It will certainly play havoc with Pinos farming operation the next time it comes down.
And as to a previous post....
I guess some folks could work "global warming" into any topic posted
I think that they lurk in the shadows, waiting to make the "Global Pounce"

AKgringo - 8-24-2018 at 06:02 PM

Another unintended consequence of agricultural expansion, is the loss of native flora and fauna.

The dessert is cleared and leveled, and wells drilled to grow crops, but if the farm fails after a few years it will take generations for the land to recover (if ever)!



DaliDali - 8-24-2018 at 06:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Are 7 Billion humans enough?


Bingo........warm/cold/rain/dry

There are just too many people in the entire world, chasing too few resources from the earth.



DaliDali - 8-24-2018 at 06:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo  
Save water,,,, Drink more Beer...................


Sounds great to me.....except that beer is 98% water.


David K - 8-24-2018 at 06:12 PM

When I was in High School, I think it was 3.5 billion people and they were predicting doom and gloom. Remember the movie Soylent Green?

The earth is so mighty and human technology will figure it out... then we have Mars... lol! Elon Musk to the rescue!

SFandH - 8-24-2018 at 06:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view  
Are 7 Billion humans enough?


Latest projections are 12 billion by 2100. The largest growth in Africa.

https://www.iflscience.com/environment/human-population-may-...

But it sounds like El Rosario's problem is lack of smarts when it comes to groundwater usage.


[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 8-24-2018 at 06:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


The earth is so mighty and human technology will figure it out...


We won’t solve problems when numb nuts like you reject science and technology because of your brainwashing thru political dogma spewed by your leaders who are in fact criminal families, led by orangatangs, fleecing you rubes, eh?

DaliDali - 8-24-2018 at 07:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  


The earth is so mighty and human technology will figure it out...


We won’t solve problems when numb nuts like you reject science and technology because of your brainwashing thru political dogma spewed by your leaders who are in fact criminal families, led by orangatangs, fleecing you rubes, eh?


Heysous Christo Goat.........don't open up another blast of GW horsechit.....didn't you get enough last go round?

Paco Facullo - 8-24-2018 at 07:16 PM

It's always a possibility that things won't "get fixed" and Mankind will be in a world of hurt ......
Just sayin..........

SFandH - 8-24-2018 at 07:23 PM

This is an interesting topic. The GW posts should be deleted by the authors.

Open another thread if you must.

David K - 8-24-2018 at 07:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo  
It's always a possibility that things won't "get fixed" and Mankind will be in a world of hurt ......
Just sayin..........


All things are possible!

Paco Facullo - 8-24-2018 at 07:28 PM

Let's just hope that it all works out well ....

In the mean time do good things and have as much fun as possible.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by Paco Facullo]

Thank you!,,,,,

thebajarunner - 8-24-2018 at 07:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
This is an interesting topic. The GW posts should be deleted by the authors.

Open another thread if you must.


Great observation
I intended this to be topical and timely
Then the GW trolls crept in, as usual
Let's get back to discussing invasive ag operations at the expense of local and traditional water supply

advrider - 8-24-2018 at 07:49 PM

It's not just Baja! I have a cabin in the sierras that has been on a spring for the last fifty years, next to a ski resort. They keep building and drilling wells and the last two years our spring is barely able to keep up at the end of the year!

mtnpop - 8-24-2018 at 08:21 PM

One can take notice of the 30's in the high plains 5 state area.
Greed came along and the fertile grasslands were plowed up and the rains no longer came just the winds... I wish I could post pictures of the family farm in the panhandle of Okla. where my grandparents and parents actually made it through... Plenty of places to read the history made there and why. Then 20 or so years later deep well irrigation was discovered in the Ogalala (sp) aquafer so now many small towns are having trouble keeping drinking water. The aquafer is not replenishing and probably never will.
All done with AG. not GW... take some time and look up that history.
You can see it happening in the desert SW when you pass thru as well as areas of BAJA.
Rant over for awhile....

norte - 8-24-2018 at 08:40 PM

Does Los Pinos have farm acreage in El Rosario?

thebajarunner - 8-24-2018 at 08:56 PM

In June we counted 15 school buses between San Quintin and El Rosario. More parked at the giant new ag farm under the bridge
And more parked past the mountain near El Progreso at yet more new plantings
Their tentacles are everywhere

norte - 8-24-2018 at 09:01 PM

Best to check on who owns the farm before blasting them. Last I knew it was owned by big El Rosario land owner. I know many in El Rosario use workers from Los Pinos… Just wondering. Los Pinos does own land by El Descanso.

John Harper - 8-25-2018 at 05:18 AM

A lot of water issues are simple human mismanagement, greed, and politics. Here's part of where we went awry. All excellent reads.

"Cadillac Desert" by Reisner
"The King of California" by Arax and Wartzman (corporate farming in Central Cal)
"Water and Power" by Kahrl

None of California's water problems were caused by salmon. steelhead, or smelt. All man made disasters.

John



[Edited on 8-25-2018 by John Harper]

bajaric - 8-25-2018 at 05:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of our precious water.
End of rant.... I hope


When I read that I thought you were referring to Friant Dam.... The San Joaquin river was once a navigable waterway, until that dam took ALL the water. Now what was once a vast riparian wetlands is a bone dry patch of wasteland surrounded by corporate agribusiness, tract homes, and smog. And you are worried about some farmer in Baja drilling a well?

PaulW - 8-25-2018 at 06:26 AM

There is plenty of water all along the Baja pacific coast. The problem is the ground water is infiltrated with sea water due to excessive well pumping inland. The larger cities in the north have solved that issue with large reverse osmosis plants now connected to the domestic piping systems.
That is what the farms are doing in the San Quintin area. Good water means very good crops of the highest quality. Thus a booming economy for all.

El Rosario needs to bite the bullet and get the funding to move forward to the present days. Not only is the RO plant expensive, but the recurring electrical cost is very high. Then they will discover that the piping infrastructure is inadequate and has to be upgraded. Same thing is taking place in the northern cities as an ongoing effort

John Harper - 8-25-2018 at 07:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of our precious water.
End of rant.... I hope


When I read that I thought you were referring to Friant Dam.... The San Joaquin river was once a navigable waterway, until that dam took ALL the water. Now what was once a vast riparian wetlands is a bone dry patch of wasteland surrounded by corporate agribusiness, tract homes, and smog. And you are worried about some farmer in Baja drilling a well?


Yep, and a lot of that water the farmers get is virtually FREE!!! Save Tulare Lake!!!! Oops, way too late.

John

chuckie - 8-25-2018 at 08:02 AM

The Ogalala aquifer, which provides water for the breadbasket of America, is dropping like a stone . Mt Pop referenced this in an earlier post. A real disaster in the making.

Mexitron - 8-25-2018 at 08:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
The water woes at Baja Cactus (on another thread with an unfortunate title) bring to mind some of my experiences and observations relative to water.
Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of our precious water.
Now the dim bulbs at the State Water board think it would be a real good idea to send 50% of our clean mountain water out to sea to support a dwindling salmon population.
Now, mind you, I really like salmon, but eating the produce of the valley and seeing the jobs it supports is a lot more important than saving a couple thousand fish.
Here comes the real problem.
When river water is not available the desperate farmer starts drilling. Deep!!
And then the ground starts to drop, the neighbors start losing their wells, they drill deeper, and on it goes.

In Baja I know the folks at Rancho Santa Marta in San Vicente.
Years ago their fairly shallow well was struggling, the quality was not so good, so they put in applications for a deep well, since they are farming some 600 acres in addition to the orphanage and school. Most of what they produce is "dry" farming, winter crops that depend on rain. When after several years they got their permit the government put a meter on the well, they did not use as much water as they had predicted, and they were warned to use more water or lose rights to the well. Just over the hill you will note that LACetto has a massive vineyard, obviously irrigated by deep wells. The question is not if the water will last, but simply when will it be exhausted.

When I first raced the 1000 we saw very lush farming around Villa Constitucion. Years later I heard that when the water table had dropped to about 2500 feet they were no longer able to sustain any pumping and lost much of this farming.

So, now to El Rosario. When I see the entire river valley being farmed I know that the wells are sustaining the crops, but for how long? And how much impact on the town people of El Rosario? Sad to see all of those school buses coming up from you know who, down in San Quintin and drawing down the water table. Go just a few more miles over the mountain south and see the farms (with the same school buses) emerging in the valleys and the local areas. Again, how long will that aquifer sustain this level of draw down?

Anyone wonder why Baja Cactus and the homes around are out of water?
Just check out the green fields under the big bridge.

I understand progress. Hey, I am a real estate developer, I catch lots of heat from environmentalists. But, we never build where the basic necessities cannot be sustained. And today I see the large commercial farming interests coming in, drilling, drawing down, and then bailing out, whilst the local folks contemplate just how to sustain their own basic lifestyles.

End of rant.... I hope


As to the salmon I tend to agree that throwing expensive environmental solutions at marginal populations is not in our best interest. Take that money and buy pristine land/rivers that are already in good shape and protect it. As to the water in CA very few realize that upwards of 50% of the state's water is used to grow cattle, and for a very minor portion of the state's economy. Almonds and housing are the whipping posts for water use but they only account for 10 and 20 percent respectively.
Baja doesn't seem to have that problem as the cattle are range fed, just too much water being drawn from scarce resources.

Much to respond to here

thebajarunner - 8-25-2018 at 01:29 PM

Los Pinos may not "own" the farm in El Rosario but they clearly are operating it. Many land owners here have leased their lands to large conglomerates.

Dams. Without dams and canals the Central Valley (the richest farm in the world) would look like El Marmol. Pure, sheer desert.
Like 'em or not, the dams have fed you and supported us who live here.

Cattle do not use 50% of the water in California. Actually alfalfa uses about 18% but much of that goes to horses or is a cash crop export to China and Japan. (Got to put something in those empty container ships headed back for more Chinamade trinkets)

Aquifers and overdraft. Once upon a time we had lots of ground water here. Now the areas along I-5 in Merced and Madera Counties have seen the land drop 25-30 feet due to pumping. Know what a 25 foot drop does to the canals and highways running through there? Not pretty.

One of my Baja traveling partners lives just outside the city limits of Merced. 800 acre farm developed this year close by, 3 massive deep wells for irrigation and all the people on John's street lost their wells.

And inland Baja has absolutely no aquifer storage comparable to Central California.

And, by the way, I love the way that SoCal lines all of its riverbottoms with concrete to make certain that none of the fresh water runoff can perk back into the ground!! No need, just send some more down from our Delta.

AKgringo - 8-25-2018 at 02:33 PM

Thebajarunner, I grew up, (and still have property) a couple of hours up highway 49 from you near Grass Valley. The primary aquifers in my area are ancient river channels, and fractured shale bedrock.


As more people tap into the aquifer, the water level has been dropping. I have contsructed a couple of ponds to capture the excess run off that occurs every winter.

This is frowned upon by the local water distrct, which considers even rain as their property! I did it anyway, because in addition to slowly recharging the ground water, I have ponds most of the fire season that can help save property and lives!

In those areas of the central valley that have settled due to excessive pumping, the storage capacity is depleted along with the water. That land is never going to rise again!

And now they are still planning on pumping even more water to Southern California. to grow subdivisions!

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by AKgringo]

Now you are creating another problem for yourself

thebajarunner - 8-25-2018 at 02:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Thebajarunner, I grew up, (and still have property) a couple of hours up highway 49 from you near Grass Valley. The primary aquifers in my area are ancient river channels, and fractured shale bedrock.


As more people tap into the aquifer, the water level has been dropping. I have contsructed a couple of ponds to capture the excess run off that occurs every winter.

This is frowned upon by the local water distrct, which considers even rain as their property! I did it anyway, because in addition to slowly recharging the ground water, I have ponds most of the fire season that can help save property and lives!

In those areas of the central valley that have settled due to excessive pumping, the storage capacity is depleted along with the water. That land is never going to rise again!

And now they are still planning on pumping even more water to Southern California. to grow subdivisions!

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by AKgringo]


You are doing exactly what I would do.
BUT>>>>>
You have now created "Natural habitat" in the eyes of our great state of California.
Few years ago I had a really primo subdivision in planning up near the New Hogan Reservoir.
Then the state sent one of their gee-whiz super snoops around and declared that the places where years ago the farmer had scooped out little holding ponds so that his grazing stock would have water part of the year "might" be a habitat for the Tiger Salamander.
These were all manmade and miles from any other habitat
But the state said we had an 18 month hold and a $100k fee for them to park someone on site and watch and see if the little guys ever made an appearance.
I walked!
Don't you just love government and the way that they protect us????
NOT!!

AKgringo - 8-25-2018 at 03:42 PM

Don't forget extensive testing for industrial contaminates since my property was mined during the goldrush, and again during the depression in the 30s!


I ran into all that hoopla when I inquired about adjusting the lot line between two properties that I own. No new lots were going to be created, no change in use status, no change of ownership or square footage of either parcel, but I was going to have to pay for fees, surveys, and permits as if I was carving a subdivision out of the wilderness!

It was going to cost about fifteen thousand dollars to move two survey monuments east and west along existing property lines! Then of course, I need to hope that none of the neighboring land owners have an objection to anything changing! California is special!

PaulW - 8-26-2018 at 07:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
The Ogalala aquifer, which provides water for the breadbasket of America, is dropping like a stone . Mt Pop referenced this in an earlier post. A real disaster in the making.

=== =
True It is just not fair that in the midwest they have so much water they just dump it into the ocean and in the mountain west we have none and we put small amount into the ocean. And there is not provision for the midwest to share their water to those in need.

chuckie - 8-26-2018 at 03:54 PM

couple things wrong with that..The Midwest has no oceans, The Midwest has no water to spare.....

thebajarunner - 8-26-2018 at 04:23 PM

I talked today to an El Rosario businessman who confirmed that in the last year the "Major farming operations" have moved into the valley and begun aggressive well drilling and farming.
It has been of very little benefit to the town. Most of the workers, as we observed in June, are being bused from their home operation in San Quintin, thus not providing local jobs or spending money in the town.
Just taking the water, shipping the produce north and El Rosario takes the very short end of the stick.
Sad.
Who wants to guess how deep the town domestic wells will need to be drilled in the next couple of years?
Too deep to afford pumps big enough to extract the water is my guess.

lewmt - 8-27-2018 at 04:36 AM

"El Rosario needs to bite the bullet and get the funding to move forward to the present days. Not only is the RO plant expensive, but the recurring electrical cost is very high. "

I do water treatment for a living & there are incredible opportunities in Baja for this use of water. 2 potential problems though. The vast quantity of waste water required is placed where? If back into the ocean in enough quantity does that pose a long term problem to salinity or cause localized issues with salinity at the disposal sites? If into the ground the salinity would create massive issues for groundwater. Keep in mind the waste water from Reverse Osmosis is a concentrate 100's of times more saline than the sea water being processed.

I've often wondered if the waste couldn't be "mined" somehow for its mineral content....ie placed into salt flats & diked & as natural evaporation occurs - utilize the mineral deposits for some industrial purposes

As to electrical requirements - it seems to me that Baja has the most abundant renewable resource available and as technology improves could provide all the electricity necessary for minimal ongoing cost. The 1 thing Baja has in ample supply is sunlight. Why more use of this resource isn't utilized there is confounding.

[Edited on 8-27-2018 by lewmt]

weebray - 8-27-2018 at 07:48 AM

Interesting thread here and aside from the usual reactionary BS there are some points worth considering. I have always considered solar to be an underutilized resource here. Something needs to be learned from its past failures though. The local mattress factory here in La Paz used to do a booming business using cheap cotton from Constitution. I know it makes no sense but, for awhile there was plenty of free water. The free enterprise days of letting the fishermen manage the fish, the loggers manage the forest or the farmers managing the water are over.

David K - 8-27-2018 at 09:03 AM

Diamante Del Mar project in El Rosario was going to install a de-sal plant near La Bocana beach for their gold course and residential needs... so it is doable per engineers. The DDM group got sidetracked and developed in Cabo first as the infrastructure was already there. The word was that El Rosario would follow, but the property looks deserted now.

Alm - 8-27-2018 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Global warming or cooling (whatever it is currently) is of little matter when what you want is rain... cool weather rain or warm weather rain.

Here was the bridge at El Rosario just 8-1/2 years ago (when we were in "Global Warming" according to a "consensus of scientists")...


With all due respect, this is not your area of expertise, to put it mildly.

Climate is changing. Here in Pacific NW summers used to be cool with occasional rain. Now a new and very typical summer pattern is plenty of rain first half of the summer, and then hot and dry with forest fires all the way through October. Polar caps are melting, northern forests and tundra are bone dry, water vapor in the air drifts and makes landfall differently. Floods in Baja - hell yeah. Is Baja still dry? Stupid question, isn't it...

David K - 8-27-2018 at 10:34 AM

I am not claiming to be an expert at climate... I was alive in 2010 and clearly remember these photos.

I am making a simple observation... that rain happens in global warming and global cooling. Lack of regular rain has plagued farmers in Baja since farming began in Baja.

Are you familiar with the Old Mill in San Quintiín? It was a wheat grinding mill that was going to produce so much wheat, they began building a railroad line to the U.S. to export it on. Then it didn't rain enough... This was over 100 years ago. It certainly isn't the first time there have been periods of little or no rain.

The world has warmed and cooled plenty of times without human activity and wet or dry periods, as well. The need to blame something should be to solve a problem. I don't think Mother Nature is a problem but I do think the apparent inability of (some) people to adapt or deal with Nature, is.

BajaTed - 8-27-2018 at 11:03 AM

Everything around us is evolving at a change rate except for a sub species known as Homo Erectus.

Paco Facullo - 8-27-2018 at 11:33 AM

He said "Erectus"

Skipjack Joe - 8-27-2018 at 12:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


I am making a simple observation... that rain happens in global warming and global cooling. Lack of regular rain has plagued farmers in Baja since farming began in Baja.

Are you familiar with the Old Mill in San Quintiín? It was a wheat grinding mill that was going to produce so much wheat, they began building a railroad line to the U.S. to export it on. Then it didn't rain enough... This was over 100 years ago. It certainly isn't the first time there have been periods of little or no rain.



The enterprise was a failure from the start. The Brits didn't do their homework. There was never enough rain to grow wheat in that area. The crops failed from the start. They purchased the land in the 1880's and abandoned it all by 1900. There was never enough rainwater to grow wheat when they were there and nor since they left.

chuckie - 8-27-2018 at 02:08 PM

28 inches barely does 1t