BajaNomad

Tipping & Stiffing in Baja

Sharksbaja - 3-11-2005 at 08:25 PM

This is an important topic as it relates to many in the service business. As a restaurant owner I know the importance in tipping. Our state has the highest minimum wage and helps augment the income for these lower income workers. We are unusual in the sense that we tip share. We have found it is part of the key to keeping employees year after year.
Most restaurants will let the waiter/waitress share a portion of tip with the bussers, the bar and others. It normally amounts the the server keeping 80-85%. It means the most of the staff receives little in cash. As owner/operaters we feel compelled to share the tips more evenly. This does not hold true if we employ a server just for that purpose as they are accustomed to the big share.
This is here and not Baja. People have varying ideas on tipping. For example, Canadians do not tip or tip very low(5-10%) while it is typically 15% in the U.S. People from Europe are usually poor tippers also. So are a lot of old people. While in Long Beach, Ca. not to long ago I was a bit shocked when the tip was already added to the check to the order of 15%. That particular evening I probably would not have tipped that much. The food was ok but the waiter was surley and since we were on the late side of dinner(8:30) he was less than attentive.
The biggest problem a server has is one of punishment through reduction of tips if the meal is lousy.
Tips can reflect service,food, atmosphere or other elements. What the term tip means: To Insure Proper Service. It can be different with anyone because there is no real standard.
In Baja I tip the same as I would in the U.S. and use the service as my basis for the amount I leave. I have also noticed pince gringos stiffing wait staff or whoever by not leaving a single peso. This is very upsetting and it must have negative effects on the employees. I know it is upsetting for us when we get stiffed and always wonder why. It almost always is answerable. Some people are just plain cheap. I really am at a loss as to the reality in Bajas' restaurants. Do they customarily receive the same percent or are those pince gringos ok in stiffing the staff??

4baja - 3-11-2005 at 08:32 PM

i tip if the service is good and has nothing to do with any thing else, if the service is good and the food is crap then i tip. if the service is crapy then you now what i do, nada!!!:rolleyes:

Marie-Rose - 3-11-2005 at 10:29 PM


I really must take exception to your general comment that Canadians do not tip or tip very low. My husband and I always tip 15% for good service. If the food is poor quality it is not the servers fault...we try again and if still poor we don't go back! If service is not great...10%. Our friends do the same.
We have been in situations with both Americans and Canadians where the tipping has been poor...in general they were usually older people...maybe not accustomed to the 10-15% rule.
We do the same in Mexico.

Dave - 3-11-2005 at 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marie-Rose

in general they were usually older people...maybe not accustomed to the 10-15% rule.


I doubt that they were unaccustomed. More like unwilling.;D

Canadians tipping

Sharksbaja - 3-12-2005 at 01:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marie-Rose

I really must take exception to your general comment that Canadians do not tip or tip very low. My husband and I always tip 15% for good service. If the food is poor quality it is not the servers fault...we try again and if still poor we don't go back! If service is not great...10%. Our friends do the same.
We have been in situations with both Americans and Canadians where the tipping has been poor...in general they were usually older people...maybe not accustomed to the 10-15% rule.
We do the same in Mexico.




Well, it's good to know you are a good client and give the benefit of the doubt and try again if not satisfied the first time. I would not do that. I admit I did overstate
the fact. But I must tell you that certain groups of Canadians are not great tippers of which every nationality there are. My experience dictates my point. We treat each and everyone who enters our door with the same hospitality, service and food no matter who, where or what they are. This results in a good tip percent average. For example take the geriatrics. Their generation learned the value of pinching pennies because they had to. When their generation finally realized a good economy the habit of saving money any way you could, stuck. Quite frankly, I believe that a lot of these people don't have a clue about tips. Canadian or not.
Like I said I have seen a lot pince gringos not only in Mex. I am not trying to dump on Canadians, we do get our share
of tourists. You know how crowded Victoria B.C. is in the summer. We get swamped also. Our family has enjoyed visiting Canada many times and the people always treated us well.......there.
Coincidentally, Iam curious as to why(according to those polls) Canadians think so poorly of America. Iam at a loss on that one.

Marie-Rose - 3-12-2005 at 07:55 AM
Quote:

Coincidentally, Iam curious as to why(according to those polls) Canadians think so poorly of America. Iam at a loss on that one.


At risk of being "off topic"!!),I think those same polls would find the same number of Americans who feel poorly of Canadians. Who know why...politics, personalities, personal experiences...reading message boards talking about Loreto Bay Village (haha).
I for one, take every person as an individual. I don't care what their country of origin, or color is. I try to be open minded and if I don't like what I am experiencing, I try to stay away from them.

Bruce R Leech - 3-12-2005 at 08:07 AM

In Mexico it is custom to tip 15 to 20 % of the ticket. this tip is usually shared with all of the staff. the kitchen gets half and the wait persons git half. Here in Mulege about 60 % of the people stiff, 20 % tip very Little and 30% leave a decent tip. I am not going to mention who are the worst tippers they Know who they are. but by far the best are the Mexicans. If you stiff on the tip I would not return to that restraint again. for obvious reasons. the staff remembers the stiffer and the good tippers and they can also tell which is the best stake in the freezer.

Bruce R Leech - 3-12-2005 at 08:58 AM

Hose A that is interesting we also had several Mexicans that left a tip once a year at Holiday time.

4baja has it right, I believe

Barry A. - 3-12-2005 at 09:24 AM

I agree with 4baja. Good service always deserves a good tip----at least 15%----no matter where I am. It has nothing to do with the quality of the food----it is the service I am tipping. Bad food, I do not come back.

If the tip is included in the price, I never return to that restaurant. I find that incredibly presumptive, and it offends me.

Some servers are so good and so friendly that I would always tip them 20%, or more.

If the server is not good (surly and inattentive) I tip nothing.

This applies to everywhere unless I am informed that it is not proper to tip.

I am not Canadian, but I am 67 yrs. old which may put me in the Geezer catagory.

It appears to me that the Canadian Government does not like us much, but not the Canadian Citizens. Personally, I cannot tell the difference between a Canadian and USA'er---some bad, most good.

Barry

TMW - 3-12-2005 at 09:37 AM

I usuall tip 20% for good service and often more for better service. For poor service I will leave less unless I think it was not the servers fault, like lots of people and not enough servers. It also depends on the servers attitude. One way to get a big tip from me is to smile and be friendly and watch my drink glass, when it gets low ask me if I want another and your tip goes up.

I have only been in a few resturants where I thought the service was great and their tip was great too.

"the tip was already added to the check to the order of 15%"

yankeeirishman - 3-12-2005 at 10:00 AM

I pass any and all establishments that have this "built in" tip. First of all: ?you ain?t going to spend MY money?! Secondly: if the service is real lousy, I don?t tip. Thirdly: If the food is unfit for humans, and the dog refuses to eat it?I don?t tip. But I do tip 20% if I end up being a happy camper.

Tip Included

MrBillM - 3-12-2005 at 11:28 AM

If you object to the tip being included in the bill, you would be unhappy in the Caribbean or you would be eating at Fast Food outlets. Virtually all of the restaurants I have eaten at there include the gratuity on the bill. The same for the hotels. I actually prefer that system, although even then I add to it for especially good service.

I consider 20 % a starting point for tips and usually tip 25-30%. I have been chided by friends for tipping too much, especially in Baja, and my response to them is that if they can't afford to tip well, then they should not eat out.

Sharksbaja - 3-12-2005 at 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
If you object to the tip being included in the bill, you would be unhappy in the Caribbean or you would be eating at Fast Food outlets. Virtually all of the restaurants I have eaten at there include the gratuity on the bill. The same for the hotels. I actually prefer that system, although even then I add to it for especially good service.

I consider 20 % a starting point for tips and usually tip 25-30%. I have been chided by friends for tipping too much, especially in Baja, and my response to them is that if they can't afford to tip well, then they should not eat out.



You are one of a kind, sir. Believe me you would not have liked 15% sucked out of you for crappy service. Especially in the magnificent city of Long Beach. But you are correct about dining out. If you are looking for deals on food you probably are a poor tipper, complainer, and worry about the price so much that it ruins your evening. So they take it out on the tip by lowering it. 25% tips are rare and if you are lucky enough to find that many establishments that deserve that much , PLEASE let us know where these great places are......

Value Received

MrBillM - 3-12-2005 at 01:48 PM

Actually, it's only a question of whether or not it's worth it to me, not anyone else.

In San Felipe, the only restaurants I dine at on a regular basis are El Nido for dinner and George's for Breakfast. Years ago, one of the waiters at El Nido followed me out to the sidewalk after he saw the tip. I don't know if he had thought I made a mistake or simply appreciated the amount.

Of course, I tend to tip EVERYBODY, including the grocery clerk, the Propane supplier, the
Cerveza distributor, The guy pumping gas, etc. Usually when I pick up water at the purification plant, the tip comes to as much as the water. The result is GOOD service and a smile. Worh every peso.
I always tip the workers who pour the cement and mortar the bricks on my casa projects. When all is said and done, the amounts which are a trifle to me are much more important to them.

I don't say that anyone who tips less is wrong, only the ones who tip less than the norm or nothing at all. When I was a young man, my oldest sister was a waitress for many years and I witnessed firsthand the abuse laid on her for things out of her control. My wife retired after 32 years with Vons grocery. I try to never abuse the messenger for things done beyond their control.

But Hey, That's just me.

Oso - 3-12-2005 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
What the term tip means: To Insure Proper Service.


Actually it comes from a now extinct custom of English restaurants that had a box mounted to the wall near the entrance with a small sign saying "To Insure Promptness". If you wanted to be sure of being served right away, you put a few coins in the box BEFORE you sat down.

When I moved to Arizona and picked up my first restaurant check, I thought they had already added the tip. On closer examination, I saw it was the tax- 10%! This really sucks and it makes me very reluctant to tip 15-20% of the bottom line (Am I spozed to tip the friggin State too?) But I usually do anyway, since I don't want to be that guy. Unless, of course, the food and/or service were really bad. In which case, I stiff because I'm never going back there anyway.

Also, if I'm in a pricey enough place to need to use plastic, I try to leave a cash tip and leave that line blank on the tab when I write in the total. I definitely don't like tipping the friggin IRS.

Dave - 3-12-2005 at 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
In Mexico it is custom to tip 15 to 20 % of the ticket. this tip is usually shared with all of the staff. the kitchen gets half and the wait persons git half.


Every store has it's own method of dividing tips, or not. There is no set way that everyone follows. I have never been associated with a restaurant that splits tips with the kitchen. Bussmen yes, typically 10%.


Dave - 3-12-2005 at 06:56 PM

IMO a bad policy. It gives the kitchen too much leverage over the wait staff. Food preparers should be straight salaried.

[Edited on 3-13-2005 by Dave]

yankeeirishman - 3-12-2005 at 07:45 PM

Done the Caribbean, and Europe. Have found places without the added on tip. 30% Tips? Who are you kidding here? Not me! It's not a question if one CAN afford a tip (at 30%?), it's a question of good service / food. But...if you want to pay a tip of 20- 30 % for crapola service, burnt food, and God knows whatever else negative thats being served to you...I guess you can AFFORD it!

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
If you object to the tip being included in the bill, you would be unhappy in the Caribbean or you would be eating at Fast Food outlets. Virtually all of the restaurants I have eaten at there include the gratuity on the bill. The same for the hotels. I actually prefer that system, although even then I add to it for especially good service.

I consider 20 % a starting point for tips and usually tip 25-30%. I have been chided by friends for tipping too much, especially in Baja, and my response to them is that if they can't afford to tip well, then they should not eat out.
:lol:

Sharksbaja - 3-13-2005 at 02:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave


Every store has it's own method of dividing tips, or not. There is no set way that everyone follows.


Bruce R Leech - 3-13-2005 at 08:11 AM

Server's wages AND taxes
Are some of you aware that servers PAY taxes on 8% of your bill? Whether they're tipped or not, they get charged for it. Also, in many states, restaurant owners are only required to pay them AT LEAST $2.01 an hour. Arizona, for example. Also, some of you that really can't afford to eat out, should try spending 8-10 hours a day on your feet, dealing with the public and the cooks and mgmt. I seriously doubt if all their money goes for shoe polish and 'hankies'.

Bruce R Leech - 3-13-2005 at 08:20 AM

According to Webster's Dictionary, the word "tip" is also considered by many to be an acronym: T.I.P. - "To Insure Promptness" or "To Insure Prompt" service.

Bruce R Leech - 3-13-2005 at 08:23 AM

Another theory follows the use of the word "tip" in the 17th century. The word was used as a verb to mean "hand it over" or "to give." This follows suit with the stories of feudal lords throwing gold coins as "tips" to the peasants in the street to ensure their own safe passage.

The TIP acronym we mentioned earlier, "to insure promptness," has been said to come from 16th century coffee houses in England. This idea is challenged, however, because some say acronyms weren't even used until the 1920s.

So, it appears that the history of tipping is as unclear as the modern practice itself. When else do people pay additional money for a service for which they've already paid, without negotiating the amount up front? The multi-billion dollar tipping industry thrives on just that.

Yankeeirishman ??

MrBillM - 3-13-2005 at 10:59 AM

Hey, just curious, but do you actually search out restaurants where you don't have to pay the tip ?

Who invented it, who cares?

Sharksbaja - 3-13-2005 at 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Another theory follows the use of the word "tip" in the 17th century. The word was used as a verb to mean "hand it over" or "to give." This follows suit with the stories of feudal lords throwing gold coins as "tips" to the peasants in the street to ensure their own safe passage.

The TIP acronym we mentioned earlier, "to insure promptness," has been said to come from 16th century coffee houses in England. This idea is challenged, however, because some say acronyms weren't even used until the 1920s.

So, it appears that the history of tipping is as unclear as the modern practice itself. When else do people pay additional money for a service for which they've already paid, without negotiating the amount up front? The multi-billion dollar tipping industry thrives on just that.


It's a vernacular people........

You can't just look up the meaning. We prefer the ancronym "To insure proper service" mainly because that would be more all inclusive when deciding the amount. If some place just focus on slamming down your food "To insure promptness" I could hardly tip well just for that reason.
Some servers and owners themselves don't get it. If you create an environment pleasing to the customer it will be reflected to some degree in the tip. And since there is no clear meaning across the board we are left with the subjective decision of how much to leave. Bruce is correct..... different states pay different wages in this industry and why is that? Think for a minute. It surely must be because of the way the state extracts earnings from lower paid workers.
In our state, a company is required to report all employee tips, as are the employees themselves if the company employs six or more full-time tip receivers. If less than six employees then they are supposed to report there tips as regular income themselves.

In the U.S. there can be extreme wage differences from state to state. The same now applies to the whole world. So, what do you do when you find yourself away from home and are not sure? Ask someone who does! It certainly is true that people take there habits/customs along with them wherever they go. But some people will tip or stiff no matter what.

When in Rome............

Do you homework people. We are talking livelyhoods here.

Bruce R Leech - 3-13-2005 at 08:37 PM

I concur Sharksbaja.

yankeeirishman - 3-14-2005 at 08:00 AM

Yes! I ask. Why walk into a hellhole that may have bad food, service that blows your wig off yer head, or overpriced ?Lobster? that?s really Shark?s tail cut creatively! I ask about the motel room too. And the house painter!
I'm a landscaper. If you hire me my company, we do a crapola job...would you pay us? Hope not! The same goes for the food industry...and they know it. I have friends that operate restaurant and Bars.... you bet the employees work towards a tip! And you can bet that lousy ones get canned!
Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Hey, just curious, but do you actually search out restaurants where you don't have to pay the tip ?

Tipping

flyfishinPam - 3-14-2005 at 02:38 PM

I worked for many years as a waitress/bartender through university in both connecticut and california. my husband in Acapulco, Los Cabos and Loreto. We both have our opinions on who the best and worst tippers are but one thing is for sure. We were both "strong waiters/bartenders" and wouldn't work for an establishment that pools tips. Both of us outdid our fellow waitstaff in handling volume of business, sales and tips. The way I saw it was that if I worked for a pool-house I'd be busting my ass while others just lagged behind, yet we'd walk out with the same pay? No incentive there. I'm also with Dave in that the back of the house workers, and administrative staff should be straight salaried. An aside- interestingly enough I was tipped much better in Connecticut than in California but I did relocate to CA right before the recession (1989).

Since working in the service industry I have been a great tipper 20-30% and up depending on the service. If I receive bad service of course my tip reflects it and I make comment to the management if possible.

In Baja 15-20% is the norm but look at the bill to see if a tip is included first, often it is.

20% - 30%

Sharksbaja - 3-14-2005 at 03:28 PM


I suppose given the right place, clientele and superb cuisine I may be able to believe that amount although only one person stated on the thread they leave that much. As we discussed earlier, there is a huge differential across America and the globe so if you compare New York City, L.A. or Frisco with Idaho, Kentucky or ten zillion other places than I'm afraid you missed the point. In our case, what we do works perfectly well and the staff enjoys the tips WE earn for them. It is amazing what more money can do, eh?

Natalie Ann - 3-14-2005 at 04:57 PM

I receive a small fixed income and was never a server. I feel strongly that good service deserves a 20% tip - period. If the service is in some way outstanding, I'll try for 25%. Really crappy service gets anywhere from a quarter to $1 just so they know I didn't forget but am displeased.

I don't think this 20-25% is overtipping for quality service; as HoseA and other pointed out, serving food to the public is no easy work. If the food's bad, remember not to come back but don't punish the server. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!

tipping the owner?

neilmac - 3-14-2005 at 05:01 PM

in a lot of small bars, etc... sometimes the cook/server/bartender, etc owns the place.. even if they have staff, sometimes they'll pull a few shifts.

do you tip the owner? isn't he getting his cut out of the beer & burger?... didn't I tip him by walking in?

Neil

Tip the Owner ?

MrBillM - 3-14-2005 at 05:21 PM

I always have. Hell, I tip my barber in Yucca Valley and he's the sole operator of the business. He's never turned it down.

dysfunctional tipping

Sharksbaja - 3-14-2005 at 06:45 PM


Pompano said:
Quote:

Don't preach to the choir. We are pretty much all world travelers here, right. After all, this is the Internet!


It doesn't appear so...... from the posts and from a credible source.......





Bruce Leech said:
Quote:

In Mexico it is custom to tip 15 to 20 % of the ticket. this tip is usually shared with all of the staff. the kitchen gets half and the wait persons git half. Here in Mulege about 60 % of the people stiff, 20 % tip very Little and 30% leave a decent tip.



Pompano , when used as a vernacular in our country it means something different. And besides, have you ever seen how the Brits tip? They travel a lot too. "To Insure Promptness":lol::lol: