BajaNomad

7 day FMM clarifications

caj13 - 12-19-2018 at 07:40 AM

OK so I will be crossing at Tekate at 2 am in the morning on the 28th of December. i will have 2 vans full of first time to mexico family members, 5 young kids, 5 teenagers, and 6 so called adults. Given the logistics of keeping the herd together, and waking up sleeping kids etc, I am coming to dread how i will deal with the FMMs.

are FMMs a requirement if one is involved in an accident and insurance gets involved, or the law - Ie if you didn't have an FMM, does that invalidate the insurance?

we will only be in Mexico 5 days - so the FMMs are free correct? I see its free if "traveling by land" I assume that means driving - correct?

so if we went on line and filled out the forms, - are they available for the 7 day FMMs? and if so, do you need to go inside and get it stamped? or ? I assume you don't pay - correct?

I'm just looking to get through as smoothly and quickly as possible,

thanks for any help / info you can provide


John Harper - 12-19-2018 at 08:04 AM

Carl,

I think you have to stop for them to be stamped even if they are printed out online, so there may no advantage to pre-printing. I think if you don't have the FMM and you get checked further down they may send you back to the border.

5 day FMM should be free.

I'm sure the usual FMM debate will follow, like asking what kind of oil to use over on my H-D forums.

John

4x4abc - 12-19-2018 at 08:43 AM

your insurance will be invalid if FFM is not stamped
plus many other headaches the Mexicans will come up with
be a good person - be legal
you expect it from anyone coming to the US

JoeJustJoe - 12-19-2018 at 08:46 AM

Lets really confuse the issue from supposedly Mexican site that claim expert knowledge about Mexico/Baja.

Mexperience, believes there is a 35KM free zone, and you won't need an FMM if you stay within this area.

Discover Baja, has more of a N-zi viewpoint, and believes anytime you cross the border, you need the FMM, and that includes the kids, over the age of two.

Discover Baja, even goes so far, and claims if you get in an accident in Mexico, and you don't have your FMM, your auto insurance can be rendered invalid.

The high priests on "Baja Nomad" usually go along with "Discover Baja" and say since 2015, there is no more free zone, and they probably go along with the belief if you don't have an FMM and get in an accident, the insurance company will not pay up or the cops will pin the accident on you.

Now who wants to know what JoeJustJoe, thinks, especially about accidents in Mexico without an FMM?
________________________

From Mexperience:

If you arrive in Mexico by land or sea and intend to travel beyond the ~35 km ‘free zone’ you will need to get a visitors visa known as Forma Migratoria Multiple, or FMM. If you fly to Mexico, air crews on international flights hand these out before the flight lands, and they are also available at Mexican airports.

https://www.mexperience.com/your-mexican-tourist-permit-fmm/
________________________
From Discover Baja:

Mexican tourist permits, or FMMs (Forma Migratoria Multiple), are required for all non-Mexican citizens entering Baja. As of September 2015, the “free zone” for FMMs (trips within the 20 kilometer border zone for less than 72 hours) is no longer valid and everyone entering Mexico will need to obtain an FMM. A passport or passport card is required to obtain an FMM.

Yes. Mexican law requires that tourists from the U.S. and Canada have an FMM tourist permit for any trip into Baja. You may encounter INM checkpoints along the peninsula where they will ask to see your passport and FMM.

If you get into an accident in Mexico and you don’t have an FMM tourist permit, you are not considered to be in accordance with Mexican law, and therefore your Mexican auto insurance can be rendered invalid.

Each individual must have their own FMM, including children ages two and up.


http://www.discoverbaja.com/go/fmm-tourist-permits/



[Edited on 12-19-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

mtgoat666 - 12-19-2018 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
OK so I will be crossing at Tekate at 2 am in the morning on the 28th of December. i will have 2 vans full of first time to mexico family members, 5 young kids, 5 teenagers, and 6 so called adults. Given the logistics of keeping the herd together, and waking up sleeping kids etc, I am coming to dread how i will deal with the FMMs.


Stopping at the border to get a visa, get your passport stamped, is part of the experience of travel.
Don’t fear the experience.
You say you are bringing first-timers - it is a good time for them to learn about travel in foreign lands, doing immigration at the border is part of the travel experience.

it really is not a scary experience. You walk in, get a form, fill out the form, talk to the man in uniform, watch him efficiently type your info into a computer, stamp the forms; and then you are on your way!

Do not fear the immigration. They are usually friendly. Especially if traveling with kids. If you smile, make conversation, they will smile back.

P.s entering Mexico at 200 AM is foolish. Do not do long road trips at night in Mexico.

[Edited on 12-19-2018 by mtgoat666]

JoeJustJoe - 12-19-2018 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
your insurance will be invalid if FFM is not stamped
plus many other headaches the Mexicans will come up with
be a good person - be legal
you expect it from anyone coming to the US


Where are you getting your information from? And I'm only talking about making your auto insurance policy invalid, not the other possible headaches or what someone may tell you.

What I do is usually read the insurance policy's declaration page, and look for any possible exclusions.


mjs - 12-19-2018 at 09:21 AM

I don't think you need to worry about waking up the kids at 2am. Wait until 5am when the border reopens and you can actually cross into Mexico to get the FMM.

Or cross at one of the 24 hour crossings, TJ or Mexicali.

David K - 12-19-2018 at 09:36 AM

Yep, Tecate border is closed from 11pm to 5am. Everyone who is not Mexican needs a passport or passport card to get the FMM, no exceptions. Baja Bound Insurance has made it clear that immigration status is not considered when honoring policy.

BajaMama - 12-19-2018 at 09:48 AM

FMMs are a requirement to enter Mexico legally no matter where you intend to visit. Your FMMs will be free for the five days. Whether or not you order online or get at the border you MUST stop in at the border immigration office to get them stamped and validated. You also MUST have a valid passport for each person obtaining an FMM.

Regarding the minors, hopefully the other "so called adults" are the parents of these kids. Otherwise you may want to look up the requirements for crossing an international border with minors w/o their parents.

Have a great trip.

[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama]

[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama]

sancho - 12-19-2018 at 12:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama  
FMMs are a requirement to enter Mexico legally no matter where you intend to visit. Your FMMs will be free for the five days
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama]










With you on that, a few months back walked into TJ. Passport
required, one had to get either the free 6 nt. 7 day fmm or
the 180 day, no exceptions. Although all Mex Auto Ins
Policies I've purchased say 'policy holder must be in Mex
legally', never read that being enforced, but it's there.
The chance of a cop demanding serious mordida for not
having an fmm would be my concern

willardguy - 12-19-2018 at 01:00 PM

do all 16 of you have passports?

JoeJustJoe - 12-19-2018 at 03:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho  



With you on that, a few months back walked into TJ. Passport
required, one had to get either the free 6 nt. 7 day fmm or
the 180 day, no exceptions. Although all Mex Auto Ins
Policies I've purchased say 'policy holder must be in Mex
legally', never read that being enforced, but it's there.
The chance of a cop demanding serious mordida for not
having an fmm would be my concern


That's surprising the Mexican border agent would tell you 6 or 7 day FMM, no exception, because I often walk in through the pedestrian crossing San Ysidro, and usually say I'm just going to the pharmacy, and the Mexican customs agents, just hands me back my passport without filling out the FMM.

I would say about 60% the time they don't' fill out the FMM for me, or for a lot of other people. They seem more interesting in writing out a FMM, if you say you're going to stay longer than seven days, or you look like a new tourist.

Of course if I drive in, I'm going to do like most of all the other drivers, and just wiz right through if I'm not driving too far into Baja.

It's no surprise that "Baja Bound," an actual insurance carrier told David K. that immigration status is not considered when honoring a policy.

They would be looking at a big fat lawsuit, if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was spelled out in their fine print, and even then you still might have a claim against them.

The last time a couple of corrupt Mexican cops stopped me, and possibility wanted to shake me down, by asking me, " do you have drugs, have you been drinking, and what I do for a living?"

Never once did those cops ask to see my FMM, which I rarely have anyway.

I have heard about a lot of shake down attempts, but never one over a FMM, which I doubt Mexican cops have authority to enforce. Of course that's a moot point, if they are just seeking a bribe.





David K - 12-19-2018 at 04:59 PM

For the newbies to Baja, cops DO NOT enforce immigration laws, and neither does the military. However, I am one who believes everyone visiting Mexico should follow the immigration law (as best we know them). As of ~2015, any trips across the border (for any duration or any distance south) requires we obtain an FMM, and to do so we must have a passport or passport card.

Before 2015, there was an exception for the state of Baja California as far south as Maneadero or San Felipe, for up to 72 hours. This made family vacations for a 3-day weekend to Northern Baja a big hit. The free 7-day FMM was also a wise choice of Mexico to create, a few years after they began to charge for tourist cards (in mid-2000). Charging every man, woman, and child (~$25 dollars) just to get into Mexico was prohibitive for many families.

sancho - 12-19-2018 at 05:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  

if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was spelled out in their fine print













Exactly my point, it IS spelled out in both HDI and the newer
Chubb Mex Ins. Co's fine print, referring to the policy holder 'has to be
in Mex legally', never did I say it has been used to avoid a
claim. As for taking the word of a US based Mex Ins. sales
broker, acting simply as a salesman for the Mex carrier, above the Mex Ins. clearly written policy clause is a naive position


JoeJustJoe - 12-19-2018 at 05:18 PM

If you go back to 2015, Rodulfo Figueroa Pacheco, the federal delegate in charge of the international border in Baja California," explained there was never really a 25 "Zona frontera," at least not officially.

Figueroa, also admitted they don't have the resources to enforce travel documents from drivers and passengers.

Now of course you have to consider the source, the "San Diego, Reader, but this article is accurate, and other regular mainstream articles quoted the same Mexican official in their articles.

Nothing in Mexico, is rarely so clear cut, and black and white, like many here believe.
______________________________________
From the San Diego Reader in 2015, when supposedly the new laws went into effect:

“The notion of a zona frontera [border zone] was never a law,” Figueroa said. “All people who are not Mexican citizens must have travel documents, like in any other country. Mexican citizens must show proof of their citizenship.”

Mexico considers travel documents as a passport or a passport card, and Mexican citizens can use their voter-registration card or even a copy of their birth certificate. Many visiting Tijuana and other northern border cities were once told that they were permitted to remain within 25 miles of the border — the zona frontera — sans a visa or a passport, but according to Figueroa that was never federal law.

“We don’t currently have the resources to enforce travel documents for drivers and passengers of automobiles coming into Baja from San Ysidro,” Figueroa admitted. “As technology advances, perhaps we will find a way.”

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/oct/07/citylights-b...
_________________________________
This is from the NPR in 2015, where they admit they are not having all foreign tourist filling out FMM, and when it's busy they just let them walk through, and others admit, it doesn't make much sense that if you drive across you don't have to fill out forums( FMM) but if you walk across you do.
___________________________
From the NPR ( notice nobody is being busted for not having a FMM, because they are too busy to issue one)

"This is about putting our house in order," Figueroa said, according to the AP. "If the line becomes clogged up, we will just let everybody through. If we can't check everybody, we won't."

Secretary Oscar Escobedo wants to persuade officials that foreigners shouldn't have to fill out an entry form.

"It's illogical that if you drive across, you don't need to fill out the form, and if you walk across, you need to fill out the form," he said.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/20/433155278...



[Edited on 12-20-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 12-19-2018 at 05:26 PM

Of course, but it is also illogical to create a traffic jam that goes back as far as San Clemente, which is what would happen if they stopped, questioned, and made those without them park and get them.

So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't.

If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the border. Every gringo car without a sticker would be sent to a huge parking lot. Naturally, it means another nail in the coffin of casual tourism with these government regulations that only hurt tourist businesses in Mexico once they are enforced to this degree.

John Harper - 12-20-2018 at 07:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the border.


They already photograph you when you cross into Mex, at least something flashed like a camera as my truck went through last Saturday. Seems doable. They also read your chip passport card on the way into the US.

Isn't that (chip card) part of the READI lane program? IDK, I just use the regular line coming back because it seems pretty confused getting from the toll road to the READI lanes. At least for me, I like going the way I know my route and I won't get trapped in bowels of the Caracol

John

pacificobob - 12-20-2018 at 07:33 AM

i would rather take a bullet than travel with 16 people.

John Harper - 12-20-2018 at 08:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
i would rather take a bullet than travel with 16 people.


I hear you. I can barely tolerate one other person.

John

David K - 12-20-2018 at 08:44 AM

Thanks for the good laugh guys!

JoeJustJoe - 12-20-2018 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Of course, but it is also illogical to create a traffic jam that goes back as far as San Clemente, which is what would happen if they stopped, questioned, and made those without them park and get them.

So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't.

If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the border. Every gringo car without a sticker would be sent to a huge parking lot. Naturally, it means another nail in the coffin of casual tourism with these government regulations that only hurt tourist businesses in Mexico once they are enforced to this degree.


So finally, I get David K. to admit the obvious.

David K. wrote: " So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't."

So why are you and others keep insisting everybody stop and get a FMM even if they are just taking a day trip into Baja, when most everybody else just drives right through, and do not stop and get a FMM, that even Mexican officials, admits they don't have the resources to make all foreigners comply with any new laws, and therefore, they are only enforcing the FMM at the pedestrians walkway.

I don't want to get into the politics, and marketing in regards to Mexican immigrant laws, because that's not supposed to be the main concern when determining immigration polices. Keeping it's citizens safe, is supposed to be the main concern.

I also have read some of your past posts David K. where you seem to believe, Mexico, should have a pretty much open border, when it comes to Americans crossing over the border, because it really helps Mexico with those American tourist dollars.

If you feel this way, then why can't the USA, have a pretty much open border for Mexicans wanting to come over?




David K - 12-20-2018 at 09:01 AM

Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.

Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a democracy).

BajaTed - 12-20-2018 at 10:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the border.


This is the exact concept behind "Frontiers without Borders"

how can this be, truth isn't true? perfect, D5 would be proud

JoeJustJoe - 12-20-2018 at 04:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho  
Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  

if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was spelled out in their fine print


Exactly my point, it IS spelled out in both HDI and the newer
Chubb Mex Ins. Co's fine print, referring to the policy holder 'has to be
in Mex legally', never did I say it has been used to avoid a
claim. As for taking the word of a US based Mex Ins. sales
broker, acting simply as a salesman for the Mex carrier, above the Mex Ins. clearly written policy clause is a naive position



I doubt Chubb, insurance, would refuse to honor a claim if one of their insured driver got into an accident, and later Chubb, finds out they didn't have an FMM.

That would be about equal if an insurance company refused to honor an auto policy, if a driver was engaged in an illegal activity, and that illegal activity was running a red light, that resulted in the accident.

Now I can see the insurance company trying to deny a claim, if the accident happened during the commission of a crime, because that's something material.

I believe David K. was accurate, when he said Baja Bounds, doesn't consider immigration status in their policies.

The Mexican police are not federal immigration agents either.


David K - 12-20-2018 at 05:13 PM

It is Baja Bound, and I said their owner posted here that he conferred with the company (companies) they represent and the answer (he was given from them) is that they will not deny coverage based on immigration status.

Baja Bound sells the policies of the Mexican Insurance Companies. They do go to bat on behalf of their clients if there is a problem. This is likely true of other Mexican Insurance brokers, such as Discover Baja, Vagabundos del Mar, Lewis & Lewis, etc.

bajarich - 12-20-2018 at 09:26 PM

No response from OP. The 16 passports was probably something he didn't think about.

JoeJustJoe - 12-21-2018 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.

Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a democracy).


Since I still see other ultra conservatives are still pushing the FMM, on other threads, and on anybody that drives over the border, I want to once again remind everybody that over 90% of people, including foreign Americans, do not stop to get a FMM, and even David K. admits to this fact.

You can repeat it's the LAW, all you want, but if Mexico, is not enforcing the law, because they do not have the resources to have everybody pull over and get a FMM, if driving into Mexico. Nobody is getting arrested and being deported back to the US, if they don't have the FMM.

What you're doing is the equivalent of finding some old anti sodomy law in the US law, that the police do not enforce, but it's like you're telling couples, you better not engage in any back door action, because the law says, you can't do it.

People can do what they want but when I drive in Mexico, I'm not going to get any stinking FMM, it would be a waste of time and energy. If I fly into Mexico, I will get the FMM, because that's when it's enforced. If I walk in, I will also get the FMM, if required too, but more than half the time, they give me back my passport, and allow me to walk in without the FMM, because I told them it's only a day trip.




[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 12-21-2018 at 10:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.

Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a democracy).


Since I still see other ultra conservatives are still pushing the FMM, on other threads, and on anybody that drives over the border, I want to once again remind everybody that over 90% of people, including foreign Americans, do not stop to get a FMM, and even David K. admits to this fact.

You can repeat it's the LAW

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe]


Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking FMM"

It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people who don't stop to get one.

If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.

STOP telling people what to do and what to think.


KasloKid - 12-21-2018 at 11:44 AM

As an inmate put it so eloquently a while back:
"If you're in enough chit where you need an FMM, you better f**g well have one"
Trouble is, the public who get into enough chit for not having one will never admit to it, will they? It gives a false sense of security to ignore what is legally required of every visitor to Mexico.
Although I've only been asked twice in Baja to produce my FMM (the last time was in November at the new Mexicali border crossing), I've been asked 4 times in mainland Mexico to do so. My personal experience and opinion is they are starting to ramp up enforcement of the requirement.
Bottom line, it's up to every individual to decide what works for them until it doesn't.

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]

Pacifico - 12-21-2018 at 12:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by KasloKid  
As an inmate put it so eloquently a while back:
"If you're in enough chit where you need an FMM, you better f**g well have one"
Trouble is, the public who get into enough chit for not having one will never admit to it, will they? It gives a false sense of security to ignore what is legally required of every visitor to Mexico.
Although I've only been asked twice in Baja to produce my FMM (the last time was in November at the new Mexicali border crossing), I've been asked 4 times in mainland Mexico to do so. My personal experience and opinion is they are starting to ramp up enforcement of the requirement.
Bottom line, it's up to every individual to decide what works for them until it doesn't.

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]


Exactly...It's not a problem, until it's a problem. It's a roll of the dice most the time. But, I'd rather err on the side of having my ducks in a row when it comes to the law; especially in Mexico. It's one less thing to worry about.

caj13 - 12-21-2018 at 12:54 PM

Thanks for all the input guys,
First I mispoke, we are crossing at San Ysidro, Yes we all have passports, and the kids belong to the parents on the trip, so thats all ok.

I am not keen on driving the first part in the dark, but making the trip in one day is preferable to stretching it out to 2 days each way, and if we did extend the travel, now we are limiting the time in BA. Trying to find a time schedule that works for 4 different families, not easy!

and yeah 16 people is a headache, and really fun too! but it does require a sense of serentiy, and a sense of humor as well! watching kids experience new stuff - thats priceless!

[Edited on 12-21-2018 by caj13]

Pacifico - 12-21-2018 at 01:02 PM

That's good you are crossing at San Ysidro...Tecate could be a problem at 2 am getting tourist cards. Have a great trip!

JoeJustJoe - 12-21-2018 at 01:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking FMM"

It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people who don't stop to get one.

If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.

STOP telling people what to do and what to think.



DaliDali, you must have me confused with YOU! I don't have an authoritarian personality, nor do I believe I'm a traffic cop, who repeats IT's THE LAW! IT'S THE LAW!

I only say, if there is any requirement around the border area, where the majority of tourist travel within. The Mexican government is not enforcing any FMM requirement. I would go so far as saying, they don't even want you to park, get out of your car, and get a FMM, if you're only staying less than 7 days, and staying within the so-called,official/unofficial free zone.

Mexico couldn't handle the traffic, if everybody was getting out of their car at the border and getting a FMM. The lines would be more than 3 hours long! Now if you're going to do some serious traveling in Baja/Mexico, then it would make sense to get a FMM.

But I never tell others what to do, and only mention what I do.

I do often give this advice. Many things you see written on "Baja Nomad" and other sites is often wrong, and it doesn't matter if multiple people are saying the same thing, that's just herd mentality at work.

So what I do is the opposite of whatever the herd is telling you, and you usually will not be sorry.

DaliDali, you remind me of this old guy who was in front of me at the pedestrian border at San Ysidro about a year ago. The Mexican customs agent asked him a couple of questions, and then quickly handed the passport back to the old dude, and waved to him the other line that exits to TJ. ( obviously the old dude was staying less than 72 hours, but I didn't hear the exchange until the old dude raised his voice)

The old dude, then throw a fit, and then demanded the Mexican official give him a FMM! The Mexican official rolled his eyes, and handed the old dude the FMM form, and made the old dude fill it out. ( usually the Mexicans officials fill it out for you) The old dude, was grumbling about how corrupt Mexico is, and was going on and on.......myself and others in the line were just shaking our heads.

This is something I also do, if a Mexican official, tells me I don't need something, I take their advice, and I don't raise my voice and argue with them like an ugly American.



[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 12-21-2018 at 01:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking FMM"

It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people who don't stop to get one.

If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.

STOP telling people what to do and what to think.



IT's THE LAW! IT'S THE LAW!




IT IS!! ....IT IS!!




JoeJustJoe - 12-21-2018 at 01:47 PM

So who is right, this site that offers car insurance to travelers to Mexico, or the ultra conservatives, who are color blind, and only see black and white, and say, "it's the law, you always need a FMM," if you're traveling six minutes or six miles into Mexico, that you need a FMM?

Could both sides be both right and wrong, since Mexico, is not exactly a black or white country?
__________________________________

What is the Mexico Free/Border Zone?



The Mexico Free or Border Zone was designated by the Mexican government to make it easier for travelers to enter Mexico and improve tourism along the U.S. border. Vehicles driving in these zones do not need a Temporary Vehicle Importation Permit (TIP). And, for stays less than 72 hours in the Free Zone, a tourist visa is not required.

Additionally, goods—with the exclusion of alcohol, cigarettes, cigars and race horses—can be imported into Mexico duty free, as long as within these boundaries. This way resources can be moved easily across the border for manufacturing and assembly plants. And, once produced, the items can be exported outside of Mexico duty free, giving companies incentive to produce in Mexico, and in turn, creating more jobs for Mexicans living there.

The ‘Free zone’ designation is actually short for ‘Hassle Free Zone,’ but the area has many other names including: Border Zone, Perimeter Zone, Liberated Zone, the Free Trade Zone and ‘Zona Libre’ (in Spanish).

What if I accidentally travel outside the free zone without a TIP?
It is illegal to travel outside the Mexico free zone without a TIP. Your vehicle could be confiscated and you could be escorted back to the border or taken to jail.

https://www.mexpro.com/blog/mexico-free-border-zone

caj13 - 12-21-2018 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajarich  
No response from OP. The 16 passports was probably something he didn't think about.


Nope, got that covered 2 months ago, just reading, listening and learning

willardguy - 12-21-2018 at 01:56 PM

for those of you that live here and probably are doing so legally I can't for the life of me understand why you're so hell bent on tourists stopping for a FMM.....for you tourists you should be applauding those that don't bother, quicker, easier crossing for you and more vacation time!:coolup:

sancho - 12-21-2018 at 03:12 PM

Some here think because they reside in Mex their opinions on
Mex Imm regs supersede others. Who among us would welcome
standing on the side of the hwy, being involved in a serious
wreck, and due to a curious cop questions about our being
in the Country legally? And not being able to prove it. Don't
you think that may put one at a slight disadvantage?
I for one would never, due to lack of preparation, give
leverage to Mex Authorities.
The position some take, 'I've been driving Baja for some
(exaggerated) # of yrs., never had an issue, therefore this
would never happen' is shortsighted

KasloKid - 12-21-2018 at 03:37 PM

My grandkids keeps reminding me that just because I read it on the internet, doesn't make it true, no matter what the source.

My Christmas wish is for those who choose to assume what the law/requirements are as far as not getting an FMM, may never be in a position where they have to produce evidence that they and their family are in Mexico legally.

JoeJustJoe - 12-21-2018 at 05:03 PM

Again, there is no proof that you need a FMM to be insured to drive in the upper part of Baja, or the so-called free zone.

It's just a myth that takes on a life of it's own, and gets passed down from group member to group member, until it becomes an alternative reality among the masses.

If you're an American tourist in Baja, with your passport, and without a FMM, you are not an illegal American, that should be deported and stripped of your auto insurance rights. Read the declaration page carefully for the exclusions, but don't read anything into it that's not there. The exclusions should be something material, not minor, like a traffic ticket.

My Christmas wish is for not everybody to not be scared of Mexico, and then act out of that fear, especially when things recommended do not make any sense and waste your time.
_______________
Someone should call Mexpro, if their auto policy will cover you if you get into an accident in Baja, and you don't have a FMM.

"Absolutely. Liability insurance provided by a Mexican insurer is required to drive your vehicle in Mexico. Without liability insurance, you could be detained until you can prove the ability to pay damages in an at-fault accident. Mexico laws continue to get stricter, so be prepared with Mexico insurance."




[Edited on 12-22-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

4x4abc - 12-21-2018 at 10:23 PM

I would love to see this same discussion on a Mexican web site. Mexicans traveling to the US discussing papers or no papers.
Some will propose following the law - others will just effing cross the border (somewhere)
Why should they care what laws the US has

mostly I would love to see your reactions

TMW - 12-21-2018 at 10:31 PM

Harald in Germany before the EU was formed and the borders were open did many people cross into other countries without paper work or did most people follow the rules. I'm not talking about from a communist country but from a free country like Germany to France etc.

KasloKid - 12-21-2018 at 11:32 PM



Joe, if your argument is pointed at me, then let me be clear. I've not made comments regarding the legality of being covered by Mexican insurance for your vehicle, I am simply making a simple declaration that an FMM is a legal requirement to be in your possession while in any part of Mexico.

[[The auto insurance/FMM is another argument/debate that I'll only comment this: in the fine print near the back of my policy, it states under the Exclusions page:
"This policy does not provide assistance coverages for the following:
8. The Insured is illegally in the country or if the insured vehicle in not properly certified to circulate in Mexico or does not have the appropriate importation permit" The key words are "The Insured is illegally in the country...." Do you think for a single minute that without an FMM, you're not illegally in the country? This is on the document from the underwriter.......]]

I'll point to the proof of enforcement by the simple fact that when my son and I crossed at the new Mexicali border crossing in November (riding to the Baja 100 SCORE race), with the intent to make our way over to the old crossing where the INM building was. We were pulled over and asked for our FMM's. I told the officer that were on our way to the old building to get one for my son, as I had mine already. He informed us that the INM office was at the new crossing now. Great. My son went in to get his while I waited. Once he returned, we hopped back onto our bikes when the officer decided to ask for mine. Turned the bike off, took my backpack off, found my FMM, showed it to him and he told us we were free to go.
NOW, if an FMM is not a legal requirement, why the HELL did he stop us and demand us to show them to him?????
This clearly is a show of enforcement of the requirement.

This too, should make it crystal clear that one needs to have a valid FMM while in Mexico, free zone or anywhere. (BTW, the free zone is all of Baja and a portion of the state of Sonora where you don't need a TIP or Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. It does not excuse one for neglecting to get an FMM.)

I just recently returned from a mainland Mexico trip and was stopped at a Federale police checkpoint as a routine stop in the free zone. They asked for my driver's license, registration, insurance and FMM..... further proof that an FMM is a legal requirement to be in possession of. I regret not asking him what would be the result of me not having an FMM...... next time.

On the back of my FMM, this is written:
[During your stay in Mexico, you must retain this immigration form and surrender it upon leaving the country.

If, on account of your visa, the immigration officer marks the CANJE ("Exchange") option on this immigration form, you must report to the immigration office corresponding to your address within 30 days of entering the country.

If the immigration officer marks any of the options in the ESTANCIA MAXIMA HASTA 1890 DIAS ("Maximum stay up to 180 days") section, this immigration form authorizes your legal presence in the country.

You may pursue no remunerated activities if you do not have an immigration status under which such activities are permitted.

Foreigners are required to pay the immigration service fee, as provided for in the current Federal Fee Law.]

This statement cannot be more clear. I interpret this legal statement as getting an FMM and surrendering it before the expiration date, is a legal requirement by Federal law.

I encourage you to continue on your trips into Mexico without taking the short amount of time it takes to get an FMM...
if and when you are asked to produce one, please, don't be a coward and let us know when that happens or better yet, if you become involved in a serious accident, let us know the outcome, or if you have to fly home, let us know the outcome.

David K - 12-21-2018 at 11:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Harald in Germany before the EU was formed and the borders were open did many people cross into other countries without paper work or did most people follow the rules. I'm not talking about from a communist country but from a free country like Germany to France etc.

West Germany, before the end of the Cold War.

paranewbi - 12-22-2018 at 05:39 AM

Kaslokid...
We were stopped at the state line between Tabasco and Campeche and given the shakedown for $$.
First, rental car papers, then FMM, then license (all while opening doors and trunk on car), then the clincher...international drivers permit.
We both had them (issued at AAA in San Diego) and the guys looked stunned! It was the first time in years of driving through Mexico and Central America that we had ever been asked for it.
I asked the main officer why they were harassing tourists? (with a big smile on my face). He shoved all the papers back at me told me to leave.
Ever had that experience and do you have one?

DaliDali - 12-22-2018 at 06:34 AM

Better to have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.

For anyone new on this Baja Mexico site, asking aboout tourist documents to enter Mexico....

NEVER EVER take the advice from an internet forum site as the gospel.

https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

Above is the OFFICIAL Mexican immigration government site.

"The FMM applicant shall hold a valid and current passport or card passport"

"The applicant shall complete the information needed in the request of the FMM, as appears in his/her passport"

The end. Your welcome


JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 08:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
I would love to see this same discussion on a Mexican web site. Mexicans traveling to the US discussing papers or no papers.
Some will propose following the law - others will just effing cross the border (somewhere)
Why should they care what laws the US has

mostly I would love to see your reactions
__________________________
4x4abc wrote: your insurance will be invalid if FFM is not stamped
plus many other headaches the Mexicans will come up with
be a good person - be legal
you expect it from anyone coming to the US




You seem to be engaged in transference, by transferring your hard line immigration views onto Mexicans who you think want Americans coming into Mexico, be legal, and get the FMM.

This is not an immigration topic thread, so I will be brief.

Life is not fair, especially when you have guys like David K. demanding that Mexico, have pretty much open borders for Americans, because Mexico, needs Gringo dollars, while at the same time wants to see Trump build a wall on the border, and make Mexico pay for it.

If I was a poor hard working, Mexican national, I might take exception to Americans, having a pretty much open border to come to Mexico, either legally or illegally, because many Americans, don't quality to live in Mexico, with their small social security check.

I would probably also laugh at any American, demanding that I wait in some line, or play immigration lotto, to come to the US, when I knew full well, my number will not be called because the deck is stacked against poor Mexicans, for a variety of reason.

Since there are jobs in the US, and the US makes it easy to live in the US with papers or no papers, I would come over any way I could.


JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 08:59 AM

Some people are getting confused over what I'm questioning about the FMM. I never said, to always ignore the FMM, in all cases of travel to Mexico, or the end of Baja. In fact you can't ignore the FMM requirements, is traveling by airline, because the fee for the FMM, is included in the ticket, and they can force all travelers to go through customs.

I'm also not talking about travailing far into Baja or mainland Mexico, where the TIPS, may come into play.

What I'm talking about is a simple day trip up to 72 hours, in places like Tijuana, Rosarito, or as far as Ensenada.

Face the fact that 90% of travelers including foreign travelers, are not stopping and getting the FMM, regardless what the hard liners from "Baja Nomad" are telling them to do.

So get off your high horses, especially since most other tourist organizations, and Mexican officials, will tell you that you don't need the FMM, for a day trip, because Mexico is not enforcing it for cars at this time. Lets repeat it again, the requirement to get the FMM by car, is not being enforced at this time.

If a Mexican cop, who has no authority to deport you, wants to deport you back to the US, from Rosarito, big deal, let him try.

Kaslo Kid, mentions on the back of the FMM, it says you have to surrender the FMM upon leaving the country. And there are even threads on "Baja Nomad" telling you to surrender the FMM when leaving Mexico by car.

That too is pure BS, although officially that is what it says on the back of the FMM. Since 2015, that requirement has not applied, and I'm not sure if it ever applied to tourists in cars, then you have the fact, Mexico, is not set up to take your expired FMMs upon leaving Mexico by car. ( only an idiot, would be driving around the border looking for a place to return their FMM by car)

Kaslo KidOn the back of my FMM, this is written: [During your stay in Mexico, you must retain this immigration form and surrender it upon leaving the country.
_______________________________________
I rather follow this advice, that's very specific to American tourists, on a day trip, than an official Mexico site, giving general information that may not apply to your situation.

INTERNATIONAL TRAVELER'S VISA REQUIREMENTS

Passport holders from countries on Mexico's no visa required list do not need to apply for a formal visa to visit Mexico. The maximum period of time that a visitor may stay in Mexico without a formal visa is six months. Pedestrians crossing into Tijuana at the San Ysidro crossing need to complete a Mexico Visitor's Permit (FMM ‒ FREE if the trip is 7 days or less and you cross by land) and present a passport. People driving across the border are not currently affected by this. The FMM is a simple form, you can acquire one at all land border crossings. If you travel beyond the 22 miles/35 km "free zone" after crossing a land border into Mexico you will need to pay a fee of around US $22. Your USA tourism visa is enough to return to the United States after visiting Mexico.

https://www.sandiego.org/articles/baja-california/crossing-t...



[Edited on 12-22-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

KasloKid - 12-22-2018 at 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  

What I'm talking about is a simple day trip up to 72 hours, in places like Tijuana, Rosarito, or as far as Ensenada.

Face the fact that 90% of travelers including foreign travelers, are not stopping and getting the FMM, regardless what the hard liners from "Baja Nomad" are telling them to do.

So get off your high horses, especially since most other tourist organizations, and Mexican officials, will tell you that you don't need the FMM, for a day trip, because Mexico is not enforcing it for cars at this time. Lets repeat it again, the requirement to get the FMM by car, is not being enforced at this time.

Passport holders from countries on Mexico's no visa required list do not need to apply for a formal visa to visit Mexico. The maximum period of time that a visitor may stay in Mexico without a formal visa is six months. Pedestrians crossing into Tijuana at the San Ysidro crossing need to complete a Mexico Visitor's Permit (FMM ‒ FREE if the trip is 7 days or less and you cross by land) and present a passport. People driving across the border are not currently affected by this. The FMM is a simple form, you can acquire one at all land border crossings. If you travel beyond the 22 miles/35 km "free zone" after crossing a land border into Mexico you will need to pay a fee of around US $22. Your USA tourism visa is enough to return to the United States after visiting Mexico.

https://www.sandiego.org/articles/baja-california/crossing-t...

Joe, can you explain why we were stopped at the Mexicali West crossing and were told to produce our FMM's?
A motorcycle falls under the same category as a car as they are both motor vehicles.

Here's my original comment:

I'll point to the proof of enforcement by the simple fact that when my son and I crossed at the new Mexicali border crossing in November (riding to the Baja 100 SCORE race), with the intent to make our way over to the old crossing where the INM building was. We were pulled over and asked for our FMM's. I told the officer that were on our way to the old building to get one for my son, as I had mine already. He informed us that the INM office was at the new crossing now. Great. My son went in to get his while I waited. Once he returned, we hopped back onto our bikes when the officer decided to ask for mine. Turned the bike off, took my backpack off, found my FMM, showed it to him and he told us we were free to go.
NOW, if an FMM is not a legal requirement, why the HELL did he stop us and demand us to show them to him?????

We weren't asked how long were going to be in Mexico nor were we asked what our final destination was going to be. It was made VERY CLEAR that we needed an FMM to travel any further that morning.

And, by the way, I take offense to being called an idiot for making the effort to return my FMM. I could say the same about you, but I won't...

The link you provided for the72 hour and travelling further than Ensenada rule is what I believe, outdated information. Another case of "I read it on the internet, so therefore it has to be true".

I've written the sandiego.org a letter asking for current and updated information, and the source of that information. Once they respond, I'll post up what they respond with.

[Edited on 12-22-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by KasloKid  



Joe, can you explain why we were stopped at the Mexicali West crossing and were told to produce our FMM's?
A motorcycle falls under the same category as a car as they are both motor vehicles.

Here's my original comment:

I'll point to the proof of enforcement by the simple fact that when my son and I crossed at the new Mexicali border crossing in November (riding to the Baja 100 SCORE race), with the intent to make our way over to the old crossing where the INM building was. We were pulled over and asked for our FMM's. I told the officer that were on our way to the old building to get one for my son, as I had mine already. He informed us that the INM office was at the new crossing now. Great. My son went in to get his while I waited. Once he returned, we hopped back onto our bikes when the officer decided to ask for mine. Turned the bike off, took my backpack off, found my FMM, showed it to him and he told us we were free to go.
NOW, if an FMM is not a legal requirement, why the HELL did he stop us and demand us to show them to him?????

We weren't asked how long were going to be in Mexico nor were we asked what our final destination was going to be. It was made VERY CLEAR that we needed an FMM to travel any further that morning.

And, by the way, I take offense to being called an idiot for making the effort to return my FMM. I could say the same about you, but I won't...

The link you provided for the72 hour and travelling further than Ensenada rule is what I believe, outdated information. Another case of "I read it on the internet, so therefore it has to be true".

I've written the sandiego.org a letter asking for current and updated information, and the source of that information. Once they respond, I'll post up what they respond with.

]


KasloKid, I can't explain it, but I have some ideas why the Mexican cop stopped you and your son on a bike.

First tell me what traffic infraction did you break to get pulled over in the first place?

Did you know that in Mexico, you have Constitutional rights, even if you're not a Mexican citizen?

Like cops in the states, who also abuse motorists rights, with thin excuses. That Mexican, cop should have had a lawful reason to stop you, although they often pull anybody over they want just like in the states in urban neighborhoods where black drivers are pulled over DWB( driving while black)

So perhaps the Mexican cop, because you were on a motorcycle, profiled you, thinking if you're on a motorcycle, you might have drugs on you, and all the questions were designed as a shakedown.

Mexican municipal police, are not Federal immigration authorities. So I'm wondering why is he checking your immigration status? LA cops when they stop you, don't demand to know your immigration status.

The fact that your son didn't have a FMM, when the cop pulled you over, shows you the cop wasn't going to really do anything. I'm sorry, but corrupt Mexican cops, will make up anything to get a bribe, but that's no reason, to get documents you really don't need because that's just paying a prepaid bribe.

If I was a corrupt Mexican stop, I would pull this one. According to many sites, and some banks that hold title to your car. You are required to have a letter signed by a bank official giving you permission to take your car to Mexico.

Boy I bet I could shake down many Americans with newer cars with that one, and it may even be legal.

Sorry, about my comments about surrendering you FMM at the border if you're in your car and leaving Mexico. You never said, you actually tried to turn in your FMM, and I was talking in general.

Even David K. would agree with me, that you don't need to turn in your FMM if driving by car, especially when there is really no procedure to do this. It has been this way since 2015, although on the back on the FMM it says you need to surrender it upon leaving Mexico.

[Edited on 12-22-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

BajaTed - 12-22-2018 at 11:51 AM

One other need for a FMM is to perform professional services in Mexico.
I had a service contract for CNC machine tool repair at the Solar Turbine facility in Otay Mesa. For the company to allow processing of my invoices, they reviewed my FMM on a monthly basis, Catepillar corp. legal dept. was the main reason.
Dot your i's and cross your t's if the risk is to much to bare

KasloKid - 12-22-2018 at 12:12 PM

Joe, you need to read my posts more carefully....

My son and I were not stopped by a cop, we were stopped by a border official at the new Mexicali west border crossing, and we were on bikes, on our way to Ensenada for the Baja 1000 race.
This was in November, this year.

A different trip, just a 8 days ago..
"I just recently returned from a mainland Mexico trip and was stopped at a Federale police checkpoint as a routine stop in the free zone. They asked for my driver's license, registration, insurance and FMM..... further proof that an FMM is a legal requirement to be in possession of. I regret not asking him what would be the result of me not having an FMM...... next time."

This trip, I was by myself, stopped just north of Guaymas, Sonora. I was within the Free Zone, or No Hassle Zone as it's referred to on the highway.
I was stopped as a routine stop.. no violation, just routine.
The officer was pleasant and I didn't get a mordida vibe.
I was in my 2005 truck, not my bike this time. My apologies for not clarifying this.
I've never been asked by a Federale for a bribe, but have with Municipal police in the past with artificially made up accusations. (BTW, I've only had to pay one bribe in the 25 years of travelling to and from Mexico)

My point being, I believe the rules have changed and officials whether border officials, immigration officials or police, are stepping up their game. Maybe not all, yet, but it appears it's on its' way.

On the subject of returning your FMM, my experience is that within Baja, there isn't a requirement to return your FMM, even though it's written on the back of the document and the Government web site indicates it so too. BUT, if you're in Sonora or other states other than Baja, you are definitely required to turn your FMM in upon leaving Mexico.
I choose to turn it in while returning from Baja, simply because I don't need a hassle down the road where an INM official doesn't see the "S" (Salida) stamp in my passport below the "E" (Entrada) stamp.
Because I travel both Baja and mainland Mexico, it could be a potential problem as Baja officials and mainland Mexico officials don't seem to be on the same page. All it takes is for a mainland official to spot the omission and create potential grief.
This, I believe, is a potential problem for anyone not turning in their gotten FMM from Baja, travelling to mainland Mexico, or an over zealous official in Baja.

My belief in life is if I can prevent a potential, possible dilemma, and the solution is to take a few moments out of my life to do so, I will. I will continue to get an FMM and return it. Others are free to do the same, if they choose.

JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 01:10 PM

I'm not sure about the rest of US/Mexico exit points, but I'm positive that you don't have to surrender your FMM upon leaving Baja at San Ysidro, if you're exiting by car or motorcycle, although there are threads on "Baja Nomad" where the righteous ones preach to do the right thing and turn it in because it's THE LAW!

OK, where do you turn it in? I guess, you can always mail it in, but my question is why?

I'm going with "Baja Bound" here, who says you don't have to surrender your FMM, and besides there is no procedure how to turn it in by car.

I also will go along with the Goat, who says to just throw it in the trash can, because it works for him.
____________________________
From "Baja Bound:"

"Does the tourist card (FMM) have to be returned to INM? As of January 2015 according to INM, returning the FMM is not necessary in Baja California if you traveled by land. Although there is statement on the back of the FMM saying to return it, there is no procedure about how to return it or where to return it when crossing by land. The Federal INM Delgate in other regions may require that you turn it in and get an exit stamp. If you are not in the Baja Peninsula, it would be best to check with your local INM office."
____________________________

The Goat wrote: "throw it in the trash.

that's what i do and i have had a 100% success rate. it is paper so dispose in the blue bin :light:

if you are still concerned about this, then next time you get a visa ask the immigration agent what to do with it when you leave mexico,... report back here with your new information"

KasloKid - 12-22-2018 at 04:03 PM

Joe, please, please read my post thoroughly.

"OK, where do you turn it in? I guess, you can always mail it in, but my question is why? " Here is my copy and paste of why from my last post...

On the subject of returning your FMM, my experience is that within Baja, there isn't a requirement to return your FMM, even though it's written on the back of the document and the Government web site indicates it so too. BUT, if you're in Sonora or other states other than Baja, you are definitely required to turn your FMM in upon leaving Mexico.
I choose to turn it in while returning from Baja, simply because I don't need a hassle down the road where an INM official doesn't see the "S" (Salida) stamp in my passport below the "E" (Entrada) stamp.
Because I travel both Baja and mainland Mexico, it could be a potential problem as Baja officials and mainland Mexico officials don't seem to be on the same page. All it takes is for a mainland official to spot the omission and create potential grief.
This, I believe, is a potential problem for anyone not turning in their gotten FMM from Baja, travelling to mainland Mexico, or an over zealous official in Baja.

My belief in life is if I can prevent a potential, possible dilemma, and the solution is to take a few moments out of my life to do so, I will. I will continue to get an FMM and return it. Others are free to do the same, if they choose.

On the subject of "there is no procedure"
There never has been a procedure in place, ever, to return your FMM by land travel. We expect everything that we have to do is laid out for us on a silver platter.... Well, it's Mexico, and rarely is anything laid out in a simple, plain, easy to follow format. It's just the way it is.. we are expected to know rules and procedures. We have a brain, we have forums to find out answers, we have other colleagues to ask what their experiences are/were, need I go on?

I'll expand a bit more in regards to rules and regulations applicable to non American residents who visit this country (I'm Canadian).
It was by word of mouth that I learned that we had to fill out a form 8840, every year, a form that is returned to the IRS, declaring how many days we spent in the USA, not to exceed 181 days in any year. It's a document that proves a closer connection to Canada. The consequences of not filling one out are dire and can lead to the IRS going after the Canadian to pay taxes on his/her/their income in Canada to the IRS. Yeah, pay income tax twice. How convoluted is that? And no, there isn't a commonly known procedure that this exists... yet it's there.
(To top it off, there is absolutely no proof or acknowledgement the IRS received this document once filled out and sent)
What can I say but it's the USA...
My point being that all counties have rules and regulations that "don't have a clear and present procedure". Mexico is no exception.

JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 04:46 PM

KasloKid wrote: " I'm Canadian."

OK, ( that's all I'm going to say)

I'm at a loss what the IRS Form 8840, a snowbird tax form has to do with the FMM?

Official country and tourism websites, usually do not discuss tax laws, that's something best left up to your accountant, CPA, or tax attorney.

Don't get me started on the Canadian Border, where they don't let Americans in their country, if they have a DUI on their record, even if the DUI happened many years ago!


KasloKid - 12-22-2018 at 08:17 PM

Sorry Joe, I felt I explained the comparison rather well. If you don't get it, then I don't have the desire to dumb it down.

Canadian border hassles for a DUI??? It's called a criminal record.
USA also doesn't allow Canadians inside their border with a DUI or any sort of criminal record. Sheesh...

And what the f*** is the " I'm Canadian." OK, ( that's all I'm going to say) comment about?
You have a problem with Canadians now too?

I'm done with the conversation as you don't read my post in it's entirety, make a comment that's insulting, and well, I'm done.

Hope your Christmas stocking is filled with coal....

The Upside to Canadians in Mexico is ..................

MrBillM - 12-22-2018 at 09:28 PM

That they're not in the U.S. ?

JoeJustJoe - 12-22-2018 at 09:34 PM

Nope wrong again, the USA will not let Canadians in the US, only if they have multiple DUI convictions, or a combination, of a DUI, and another misdemeanor conviction.

Canada, can block you with only one DUI conviction that goes back years!

The USA is only anal when it comes to Canadians, crossing with marijuana, into the US.

I also understand that in Mexico, a DUI conviction is a felony! ( I'll have to verify that one)

So supposedly, Mexico is supposed to be very tough on Americans, coming to Mexico, with a DUI conviction.

But I know for a fact a lot of drunk Americans with DUIs get in Mexico, and I also understand that Mexico, considers the differences in the laws of the two countries.

BajaMama - 12-24-2018 at 08:32 AM

I am not a conservative by any stretch, but I do follow the law, especially when in a foreign country.

JoeJustJoe - 12-24-2018 at 09:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama  
I am not a conservative by any stretch, but I do follow the law, especially when in a foreign country.


What if that foreign country says they are not enforcing that law at this time? ( I'm only talking within about 50 miles of the border, and a brief weekend trip by car)

What if there is no procedure to follow the law? ( regarding surrendering the FMM on your way out of Mexico to the US at San Ysidro)

BTW can anybody answer the question if you were stopped on, Avenida Revolucion, Tijuana, by a regular Mexican cop. What's the penalty, of being stopped without a FMM?

Do regular Mexican municipal police have the authority to enforce federal immigration laws?

In the meantime about 90% of all people, which also includes foreigners who are crossing the US/Mexico into Mexico, are not stopping and parking by car, and getting their FMM.



DaliDali - 12-24-2018 at 10:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama  
I am not a conservative by any stretch, but I do follow the law, especially when in a foreign country.



Do you also suggest to "follow the law" if it was the other direction?


South bound, follow it....northbound don't?

Do I have that right Mama?