BajaNomad

Trump to close the border entirely if he does not get $ for his wall, per tweet today December 28

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mtgoat666 - 12-28-2018 at 10:10 AM

‘Donald J. Trump, @realDonaldTrump, 4h
We will be forced to close the Southern Border entirely if the Obstructionist Democrats do not give us the money to finish the Wall & also change the ridiculous immigration laws that our Country is saddled with. Hard to believe there was a Congress & President who would approve!” :fire:

This ought to put a crimp in travel plans for nomads, eh? :lol:









.



[Edited on 12-28-2018 by mtgoat666]

[Edited on 1-2-2019 by BajaNomad]

Shelter in Place ?

MrBillM - 12-28-2018 at 10:28 AM

Between now and The Ascension of Nancy, we may see, hear and read all sorts of tantrums and threats generated from the W.H. Nursery as D.T. flays about attempting to move the polling numbers (currently 47-33 favoring the Dems) in his favor.

Which is not to say that he won't come through on those threats. His entire business career prior to America's Folly in 2016 has been akin to a Chimpanzee throwing excrement until he gets his bananas.

One should accept the fact that NOTHING is going to be agreed to until after 03 January when the new House is in session. At this point, there is absolutely NO advantage to be gained by agreeing to any compromise.

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by MrBillM]

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 10:50 AM

Trump, does a good imitation, of Colonel Kurtz, from "Apocalypse Now."

Does he really believe is stupid threats scare anybody except for the Federal workers, that are going without paychecks?
________________________

Trump threatens to close border, terminate trade deals, cut aid unless wall is funded

lewmt - 12-28-2018 at 11:13 AM

"Pelosi was spotted Thursday vacationing in Hawaii at the Fairmont Orchid resort, where room accommodations range from $899-a-night for a standard room to $4,899-a-night for the presidential suite."

She must be deeply concerned for all those federal workers

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2018 at 11:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
"Pelosi was spotted Thursday vacationing in Hawaii at the Fairmont Orchid resort, where room accommodations range from $899-a-night for a standard room to $4,899-a-night for the presidential suite."


She deserves a break to rest up prior to doing battle with the most incompetent and crooked president ever.
I hope all democrat house members are resting up to prepare to battle gop corruption beginning in the new year!


chuckie - 12-28-2018 at 11:21 AM

I hope she is spending taxpayer dollars, so they wont be wasted on Federal programs.....

motoged - 12-28-2018 at 11:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Trump, does a good imitation, of Colonel Kurtz, from "Apocalypse Now."


C'mon Joe....please don't denigrate the Colonel....he was at least troubled by his insanity....and accepted his fate wth a warrior's honour....not weaseling away from personal responsibility for his distorted actions.....at least he could claim PTSD drove his decisions...not like Private Bonespur.

Bully Wimp won't make anything great....except the time when he is finally gone from a position where he can scuttle the USA and destroy decades of hard won diplomacy.

What a goof...:rolleyes:

chuckie - 12-28-2018 at 12:10 PM

Are Canadians allowed to comment on US politics? I think If you cant vote ya cant b-tch,eh?......jes sayin...

BajaTed - 12-28-2018 at 12:31 PM

State of the union speech @ the border.
The sound of rocks banging off the wall in the background.
Pure red meat for the 33%

Timinator - 12-28-2018 at 12:34 PM

Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 12:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Are Canadians allowed to comment on US politics? I think If you cant vote ya cant b-tch,eh?......jes sayin...


I envy Motoged, because his Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, is sane.


Pacifico - 12-28-2018 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.


Amen, brother!!! On a bright note, I read that they caught the illegal immigrant that killed the police officer, Ronil Singh.

pacificobob - 12-28-2018 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.

hook, line and sinker eh?

Canuckian Commentary

MrBillM - 12-28-2018 at 01:07 PM

While I might be among the first to acidly (and enthusiastically) denigrate our odd Northern neighbors at any given time, I would also say that anyone entertaining the recurrent theme that they might not have a place in the discussion ignores the fact that ANY of them who are directly (or indirectly) affected by the southern border do have a stake in the debate.

AND, making such an argument would deny the validity of anyone opining on events that occur in other foreign countries.

Which we ALL do.

BTW, an interesting point made in televised discussions on the effects of the proposed Wall of Sham, it was noted that any wall would necessarily be built completely on U.S. land. Given that the border exists for an extensive distance in the middle of the Rio Grande river, a wall built (necessarily) on the north bank would cede that north bank to Mexico by restricting any access for American residents/citizens.

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by MrBillM]

lewmt - 12-28-2018 at 01:22 PM

According to all of you liberals on here the wall shouldn't be built. Israel has proven the effectiveness of a wall but liberals are adamantly opposed to any measure which might be effective at stemming the numbers of ILLEGAL crossings.


Why?


What is the advantage to the US in allowing anyone & everyone who desires entry into our country unabated?


Should we even have a border?

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2018 at 01:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
According to all of you liberals on here the wall shouldn't be built. Israel has proven the effectiveness of a wall but liberals are adamantly opposed to any measure which might be effective at stemming the numbers of ILLEGAL crossings.


Why?


What is the advantage to the US in allowing anyone & everyone who desires entry into our country unabated?


Should we even have a border?

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]


Your question assumes that illegal crossings are bad...

Israel is a poor comparison, unless you want to discuss israeli treatment of palistineans. Of course, you probably dont want to acknowledge that, eh?

P.s. how long is the israeli border? Fence or wall? :lol:

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by mtgoat666]

Having it BOTH Ways ?

MrBillM - 12-28-2018 at 01:49 PM

Illegal crossings are substantially down and D.T. consistently takes credit while at the same time arguing that things are so bad that an impenetrable wall at an incredible cost which wouldn't be completed for many years is absolutely necessary.

As a lifelong conservative Republican voter for 50+ years, I support whatever best-cost balance can be achieved and the Trumpian Great Wall doesn't fit.

As to Israel and its wall .................... Whatever the merits or effectiveness on a far smaller scale, they're facing a situation where the vast majority of the would-be immigrants are dedicated to the destruction of Israel and killing the Jews. So far, I'm unaware of any Mexican or Central-American terrorists coming across to blow up population centers.

DaliDali - 12-28-2018 at 02:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  


Illegal crossings are substantially down


Apprehensions SW border sector.

FY 2014......524,000
FY 2015...….440,000
FY 2016 …….553,000
FY 2017 …...415,000
FY 2018...….521,000
FY 2019 ..Oct/Nov 102,000
102,000 that included 10255 unaccompanied children.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


BajaTed - 12-28-2018 at 02:38 PM

E-Verify is a virtual digital wall around every employer in the U.S.A if it were to become a law and a tax credit to use it. Real ID is working already, not good enough right now for bitter baby boomers though.

Believe it or not, but working guy level CBP likes having a view of what is going on the other side of the border. This is what their past military training best relates to, they can see who throws rocks at them and shoot them, having to drive next to a endless medieval wall and have boiling oil poured on them because of Orangehead is what they fear. The Vietnam, Trump never served in right in our backyard again, sweet irony

lewmt - 12-28-2018 at 02:50 PM

"Your question assumes that illegal crossings are bad..."


Is there something about the term ILLEGAL that is incomprehensible? Anyone that wants to come in legally & meets the criteria set forth by whatever current administration is setting said criteria is fine. So human trafficking, drugs(fentanol, heroin, etc) should be allowed in at will since they are also simply illegal? If a known murderer, rapist, terrorist, or bank robber etc, etc arrives at our border and we can effectively identify them and perhaps stop them from entering - that is a bad thing to do? Is it actually wrong to have identification and knowledge of the people who wish to enter our country?

"Israel is a poor comparison, unless you want to discuss israeli treatment of palistineans. Of course, you probably dont want to acknowledge that, eh?"

I'd be happy to discuss Israeli treatment of the Palestinians (correct spelling) since so many of the wonderful people of Palestine have sworn an oath to exterminate Jews from the earth. Its quite arguable that Israeli treatment of Palestinians is far better than the way Jews or Christians are treated in many parts of the Islamic world - wouldn't you agree?

" Having it BOTH Ways ?


Illegal crossings are substantially down and D.T. consistently takes credit while at the same time arguing that things are so bad that an impenetrable wall at an incredible cost which wouldn't be completed for many years is absolutely necessary.

As a lifelong conservative Republican voter for 50+ years, I support whatever best-cost balance can be achieved and the Trumpian Great Wall doesn't fit.

As to Israel and its wall .................... Whatever the merits or effectiveness on a far smaller scale, they're facing a situation where the vast majority of the would-be immigrants are dedicated to the destruction of Israel and killing the Jews. So far, I'm unaware of any Mexican or Central-American terrorists coming across to blow up population centers."


So - as a casual observer since the days of Jimmy Carter and having heard the promises and excuses of numerous administrations since then, nothing else has seemed to work very effectively yet. As a lifelong conservative Republican - do you have a solution that might actually work.....and.....will be accepted and approved by Pelosi, Schumer, etal? I'm not a - "Trump wall or nothing" guy but I'd certainly love to hear about something more effective before condemning the idea.


[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
"Pelosi was spotted Thursday vacationing in Hawaii at the Fairmont Orchid resort, where room accommodations range from $899-a-night for a standard room to $4,899-a-night for the presidential suite."

She must be deeply concerned for all those federal workers

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by lewmt]


She's nothing more than a babbling idiot.

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 03:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Pacifico  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.


Amen, brother!!! On a bright note, I read that they caught the illegal immigrant that killed the police officer, Ronil Singh.


POS!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-suspect-death-california-o...

chuckie - 12-28-2018 at 03:46 PM

LOL...She might be but she is in Hawaii at the Fairmont, and you are in Pismo.....Keep the duck

David K - 12-28-2018 at 04:23 PM

If all these illegal-border-crossers were to become Republican voters, there would be no hesitation for the Democrats to fund the wall!

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 04:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
If all these illegal-border-crossers were to become Republican voters, there would be no hesitation for the Democrats to fund the wall!


Nothing but corruption.

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 04:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
LOL...She might be but she is in Hawaii at the Fairmont, and you are in Pismo.....Keep the duck


And you're in freakin KANSAS.

JZ - 12-28-2018 at 04:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
LOL...She might be but she is in Hawaii at the Fairmont, and you are in Pismo.....Keep the duck


I've stayed at that Farmont twice. How about you Kansas?

Timinator - 12-28-2018 at 05:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
Quote: Originally posted by Pacifico  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.


Amen, brother!!! On a bright note, I read that they caught the illegal immigrant that killed the police officer, Ronil Singh.


POS!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-suspect-death-california-o...


Hey Bubba, I just donated another $100 to the GoFundMe for the wall in your name. Build the Wall and build it tall.

Bubba - 12-28-2018 at 05:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
Quote: Originally posted by Pacifico  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Build the wall, secure the US borders. Absolutely and completely. Not doing so is absolute stupidity.


Amen, brother!!! On a bright note, I read that they caught the illegal immigrant that killed the police officer, Ronil Singh.


POS!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-suspect-death-california-o...


Hey Bubba, I just donated another $100 to the GoFundMe for the wall in your name. Build the Wall and build it tall.


Winning!

Straight from Donald's Upper Anus

MrBillM - 12-28-2018 at 05:22 PM

" ........ People want the border wall … They want to see the wall, they want to see security. Now, it just came out that they're 73 percent down. ... That's a tremendous achievement. ... Look at this, in 100 days, that down to the lowest in 17 years and it's going lower ........." Donald Trump April 32, 2017.

It's NOT True ?

JoeJustJoe - 12-28-2018 at 06:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  


Hey Bubba, I just donated another $100 to the GoFundMe for the wall in your name. Build the Wall and build it tall.


Sure you did Timinator, but I'm afraid that's the only way the "Wall" will funded, with the GoFundMe, wall scam.

The Department of Homeland Security cannot accept gifts without an appropriation from Congress. ( suckers)

Mexico won't pay for the Wall, and Pelosi, Schumer, are not going to give Trump, the money for the Wall, especially when Trump, said the Gov shutdown is on him over a week ago.

Mitch McConnell, won't use the nuclear option, over something as silly as a wall vote.

The only thing you have left is Trump, in the White House basement, issuing toothless threats.

chuckie - 12-28-2018 at 06:22 PM

JZ? Is the Farmont owned by the Fairmont? Like the Holiday Inn Express? I have never stayed at either one.....Have you tried tRUMP towers in NY? FYI....We are not in Kansas at this time....We are in Santa Fe for the next few weeks....I know you like to keep track...

4x4abc - 12-28-2018 at 06:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Are Canadians allowed to comment on US politics? I think If you cant vote ya cant b-tch,eh?......jes sayin...


none of us votes on the weather - but we all complain about it
b-tch when b-tching is needed

Donald Dealing Down

MrBillM - 12-28-2018 at 08:32 PM

Reportedly, the latest W.H. offer was $2.5B.

Which (no surprise) Nancy y Chuck rejected.

There is really no reason for Pelosi to deal at this point. That may change once the new congress convenes, but the current plan is said to be .......... Pass a bill (or bills) in the House covering everything except Homeland Security, pass a separate funding for that (minus wall) and send them to the Senate where McConnell and the GOP can decide what they want to do. Should they pass, it's on Trump to ................. Whatever. Sign one, some, none.

And, go from there. Que Sera Sera.

From a strictly spectator point of view, a TOTAL shutdown of the border would be a real hoot. Must-see chaos TV. More fun than one deserves.

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2018 at 09:01 PM

If the Donald wants his wall, he needs to give something in return, like amnesty, daca renewal, etc.
The Donald knows very little about how to make a deal in dc.
Chuck and Nancy will school him.

motoged - 12-28-2018 at 09:02 PM

Damn....if they shut the border, will I have to apply for refugee status in Baja ?

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 06:44 AM

It's awesome watching the Libs melt down.

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 07:28 AM

CBP criminal arrests
FY2016
FY2017
FY2018TD
OFFICE OF FIELD OPERATIONS
----------------------------------

Criminal Aliens Encountered
14,090
10,596
10,572

NCIC Arrests
8,129
7,656
5,670
------------------------------
U.S. BORDER PATROL

Criminal Aliens Encountered
12,842
8,531
6,259

Criminal Aliens with Outstanding Wants or Warrants3,697
2,675
1,547

29,454 criminal arrests FY 2017-----------------------------------------------------

U.S. Border Patrol Drug Seizures (to August 31, 2018)

In pounds

FY2012
FY2013
FY2014
FY2015
FY2016
FY2017
FY2018TD
Cocaine
4,696
4,554
11,220
5,473
9,346
6,423
Heroin
430
576
606
518
566
953
532
Marijuana
2,299,864
2,430,123
1,922,545
1,538,307
1,294,052
861,231
439,531
Methamphetamine
3,715
3,580
3,930
6,443
8,224
10,328
10,382
Fentanyl
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
181
332


20,808 lbs dangerous drugs FY 2017 seized. Not including marijuana.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistic...

[Edited on 12-29-2018 by DaliDali]

Timinator - 12-29-2018 at 07:49 AM

There is no doubt, The Wall will be built. Know why, because most the people of the United States want it. Also, illegal immigration into the United States is out of control; both with visa overstay's and coming over the border illegally. The one thing politicians take an oath to do, is to keep the boarders secure. It will happen or there will be a civil war and then it will happen. But it's going to happen.

pacificobob - 12-29-2018 at 07:59 AM

it is remarkable how limited thinkers confuse improving immigration policy and enforcement with building a wall..... the 12th-century solution to a 21st-century problem.

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 08:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
There is no doubt, The Wall will be built. Know why, because most the people of the United States want it. Also, illegal immigration into the United States is out of control; both with visa overstay's and coming over the border illegally. The one thing politicians take an oath to do, is to keep the boarders secure. It will happen or there will be a civil war and then it will happen. But it's going to happen.


Agreed. Situations like this are highly upsetting but also preventable..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-killing-suspect-fleeing-me...

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 08:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
it is remarkable how limited thinkers confuse improving immigration policy and enforcement with building a wall..... the 12th-century solution to a 21st-century problem.


It's that narrow mindedness that's been their downfall..

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 08:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
it is remarkable how limited thinkers confuse improving immigration policy and enforcement with building a wall..... the 12th-century solution to a 21st-century problem.


The San Diego sector built a wall....dramatic drop in cross border arrests.

"As a result,(of building a wall) illegal entries were reduced by approximately 75 percent"

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-...


Yuma sector build a wall.....a dramatic drop in cross border arrests.

"Even under lax enforcement standards, apprehensions in fiscal year 2016 were roughly a 10th of what they were in FY 2005 — and are on track to be even lower this year. Crime has significantly decreased in the Yuma area, and smugglers now look for other less difficult areas of the border to cross — often areas without fencing"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/22/homeland-s...



[Edited on 12-29-2018 by DaliDali]

Timinator - 12-29-2018 at 08:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
it is remarkable how limited thinkers confuse improving immigration policy and enforcement with building a wall..... the 12th-century solution to a 21st-century problem.


It's that narrow mindedness that's been their downfall..


It's easy to be narrow minded about illegal immigration, it's illegal, one and done. Easy. Why do we have to "improve" our immigration policy? We already accept more immigrants legally into the United States every year than the rest of the world combined. What exactly is broken? Only thing I can see, is the illegal portion, not the legal immigration. But then, I'm just a "narrow minded, limited thinker" and we have you with your vast intellect to enlighten us.

The tighter we seal the borders the better the country is in every way. The welfare recipients in California alone could fill every "perceived" job that "only illegals" will do.

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Quote: Originally posted by Bubba  
Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
it is remarkable how limited thinkers confuse improving immigration policy and enforcement with building a wall..... the 12th-century solution to a 21st-century problem.


It's that narrow mindedness that's been their downfall..


It's easy to be narrow minded about illegal immigration, it's illegal, one and done. Easy. Why do we have to "improve" our immigration policy? We already accept more immigrants legally into the United States every year than the rest of the world combined. What exactly is broken? Only thing I can see, is the illegal portion, not the legal immigration. But then, I'm just a "narrow minded, limited thinker" and we have you with your vast intellect to enlighten us.

The tighter we seal the borders the better the country is in every way. The welfare recipients in California alone could fill every "perceived" job that "only illegals" will do.


I'm with you on this. Build that wall!

JoeJustJoe - 12-29-2018 at 09:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
There is no doubt, The Wall will be built. Know why, because most the people of the United States want it. Also, illegal immigration into the United States is out of control; both with visa overstay's and coming over the border illegally. The one thing politicians take an oath to do, is to keep the boarders secure. It will happen or there will be a civil war and then it will happen. But it's going to happen.


WRONG, according to the polls most people in the US do not support the immoral, ineffective, expensive' border wall, as Nancy Pelosi, has called it.

Trump, is an idiot, for closing down the US Government, because the right-wing extreme pundits told him to do so.

When the Federal workers miss there first paycheck, it's going to put so much pressure on Trump, to open the government, over his miscalculation that closing the border is a winning issue.

Timinator, says there will be a civil war over this issue. HA HA HA, if there is.... you Confederates will lose again.
_______________
From the Hill:
____________________________________

Most voters oppose President Trump’s demand for border wall funding, but think that the White House and congressional Democrats should compromise on funding for the president’s long-promised project, according to a new Harvard CAPS/Harris poll released exclusively to The Hill.

The survey found that 56 percent of respondents do not support the president’s proposal to construct a wall along the southern border, compared to 44 percent who do.

Erecting a broad security barrier along the border is only slightly more popular, according to the poll. Only 46 percent of respondents support that proposal, while 54 percent oppose it.

A majority of U.S. voters surveyed, 58 percent, said Trump should withdraw his demand for the border funding, while 42 percent said the president “should not give in."

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/423099-poll-majo...

[Edited on 12-29-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

elgatoloco - 12-29-2018 at 09:36 AM

:lol:

Protoytpes.jpg - 77kB

Staying on topic....in the era of Trump!

AKgringo - 12-29-2018 at 09:54 AM

This thread is almost unique, Nomads are able to bash or support Trump on a subject that actually matters to all of us who plan on crossing the border. No need to hijack some other useful thread this time!

By the way, if I am able to cross southbound at Mexicali, how are the repairs to Hwy 5 coming along? :biggrin:

Drawing a (Border) Line in the Sand

MrBillM - 12-29-2018 at 10:46 AM

Quicksand ?

With the specter of 2020 lurking on the horizon, the issue will be settled (temporarily) when the current 47-33-7 polling and (maybe) the Markets move in response. Reelection politics will decide.

Given that Trump has already signaled through his Consigliore that he's willing to cut a deal @ a token down-payment of $2.5B (or less ?) to allow him a "claim" of victory, one would expect a deal along those lines after quibbling over the wording of the appropriation. Expectations are HIGH and those new "Progressives" are going to be a restless and irritating bunch.

The bottom line is that BOTH sides MUST have a resolution that they can present as a victory. It's curtains for any DEM coalitions in the new House if it starts out with Pelosi looking bad.

Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 are in a better position. IF they can remain looking good while the Scheisse piles up around D.T.'s ears .....................No Problema ! His base will never LEAVE him and nobody else BELIEVES him.

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 11:00 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-poll-shows-high-job-approval-t...

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 12:14 PM

'Support for President Trump’s border wall hit a record high in a new Quinnipiac University poll Tuesday, but a majority of Americans still oppose the project, saying it’s a waste that isn’t needed to improve border security"
"The poll found 43 percent do support the wall, but 54 percent oppose it and say it won’t help secure the southern boundary"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/18/support-tru...

Once FACTS, as posted previously posted on here, the approval ratings for a wall, fence, barrier or the term de jour of the day, will rise.
FACT is a wall worked as intended, where they were placed.
A wall in areas not yet placed would not? Ok got that.

FACTS are tough to come by these days....

Rather than take a politicians word for it, or a pundits word for it, I take the word of those people on the ground, 7/24 365 who say a wall is ONE necessary component, of the over arching term of "border security" Or take the word of Joe(aka Jay) they are just brown skinned hating, jackbooted thugs.

The current situation on the border line is out of control.
FACTS back that up. REFUTE THE FACTS if you will, but there they are, from the horses mouth.....for your viewing perusal.

Polling is notoriously not a reliable, all knowing pulse of the measure of actual support for this or that....
If it was, Hillary would be the President right now.

"Americans still oppose the project, saying it’s a waste that isn’t needed to improve border security"

Ok....I have a tough time trying to figure out how many more deaths, assaults and smuggled dangerous drugs is enough to get beyond a "waste". And how many more billions upon billions of dollars, "wasted" in all manners of costs associated with illegal aliens, will it take for Americans to come to the grips of reality.........

Now that an officer in CA (jackboot, according to Joe, aka Jay)was murdered by a gang banging illegal alien, with 2 priors for DWI, cut loose out of a lockup and CA law prevents those local lockups from notifiying ICE, the tide will turn.
A legal immigrant(brown skin no less) the kind America wants, murdered by an illegal immigrant, the kind America does not want. Say it.....IRONIC!!!

I suspect (in a moment of "Gumshoe Jay", aka "Joe") that the entire brewhaha is not about border security, but rather a political tool to damage the Trump brand and give the other 30 or so liberal Presidential candidates an edge in 2020.



TMW - 12-29-2018 at 01:14 PM

Maybe if Trump closes the border completely everyone will get serious and work to find a real solution to the problem instead if just kicking the can down the street.

BajaTed - 12-29-2018 at 01:22 PM

Modern military tactics 101 versus a medieval wall

If the wall is built, the protective fields of fire are now on our side of the border when the wall is crossed over our breached by a massed hoard. Innocent Americans now become collateral damage.

The CBP guys don't want the wall exactly for this reason.
As of now the protective and defensive fields of fire are on the Mexican side of the border where it belongs.

The wall is pure political solution, a logical military one is what is now in place.

Mattis & Haley in 2020

The Superhero Syndrome

MrBillM - 12-29-2018 at 01:23 PM

Given the FACT that the core constituency of the Trumpian cadre is heavily represented by less-educated average (or under) IQ Bubba-Boys who are also addicted to the Comic Book Superhero genre, it is no surprise that they embrace for gratification the visually-satisfying concept of an imposing wall courtesy of their Noir Comic hero.

Cancamo - 12-29-2018 at 01:34 PM

El Gato has it right, a wall will do nothing to stop anyone who wants over, around, through, or under it. How many tunnels exist in the border zone alone, not to mention the possibilities in the vast frontier of the border.
One point nobody makes is the folks with legal credentials of someone else passing entry points with the approval of crooked Border agents on the take. I know this happens every day. I'm sure the same thing happens with drugs. Yes, U.S. Border agents can be bought.

The Central American immigrants are applying for asylum, seeking Border agents soon after they cross, through a legal entry point or not. The laws of the country and international norms allow this humanitarian practice. People seeking refuge from dangers where they came from.

Although Mexican immigration for employment reasons has retracted from previous years, many others have made the grueling 5-7 day walk into Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas frontier. No wall is going to stop them. Although I doubt the fat criminal whom killed the sheriff in California came into the country that way.

To get a visa to enter the U.S. from Mexico is almost impossible for most folks. Proof of bank accounts, titled property, and/or owning a business are basic requirements to begin the process. Then it can take years with no guarantee of approval. Not to mention the cost and paperwork required to obtain a passport.
There is no simple FMM process for these folks. Where you are born means everything.

It wasn't long ago the brasero program allowed Mexican immigrants to go north and do the work nobody else would do. Most these folks went back after the season was done. Nowadays they stay put. I have an older friend that was part of this program, and had been notified of funds due him from Federal and State withholding taxes, needless to say he cannot get a visa to go collect, much less afford the effort/journey. Think about all the taxes being paid into Social Security, Medicare, never to be recovered by the payers.

The entire immigration subject is complicated and needs reform. No way is the "wall" anymore than a simple image for simple minds to grasp as a solution. There are many other solutions including using 20th century technology in order to secure the border.

Using fear to motivate people for political reasons is nothing new. Claiming that Middle Eastern terrorists are among the Central American immigrants is a sad, desperate effort at this, with no factual evidence to back it up.

I know very few people in the US that are not a product of immigrants within a few generations at the most. Immigration is what makes the U.S. the great country it is. Just as the Italians, Irish, Polish, Armenians, Portuguese, Chinese, etc.....were castigated by the immigrants that came before them, now our neighbors to the south face the same thing.

Besides, whom is going to build "the wall"? Check out the Tom Russell song.

JoeJustJoe - 12-29-2018 at 01:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Maybe if Trump closes the border completely everyone will get serious and work to find a real solution to the problem instead if just kicking the can down the street.


First you have to ask yourself, can Trump, legally close the border, or is it all bluster, lies and frustration, because the Democrats, won't give him $5 billion on a down payment on the wall, that Mexico, is supposed to pay for.

Even Judge Andrew Napolitano, from "Fox News' said, "He cannot legally do it."

If you are caught on the US side during a border shutdown, you have constitutional rights to be allowed back in the US. This would quickly go to the federal courts, who will demand Trump, open the border.

How about the millions of dollars of freight, that crosses daily? You think US business, is going to let Trump, closing the border for long?

The democrats are in the driver's seat, and they will make Trump, blink over this political issue, which is all it is.

At best Trump, could slow the border to a crawl, but he can't shut it down.
___________________
Update, I just read Cancamo, post above, while I was writing my post.

Right on, Cancamo, great post, the wall is just a metaphor, to get the juices flowing among the Trump base, it will never happen, but makes a great campaign marketing issue for the base..



[Edited on 12-29-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 12-29-2018 at 01:37 PM

Back it up with Claymore mines, set low enough to get ALL the women and kids....Put that on live TV THEN the Bubba boys will be happy.....

[Edited on 12-29-2018 by chuckie]

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 02:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Back it up with Claymore mines, set low enough to get ALL the women and kids....Put that on live TV THEN the Bubba boys will be happy.....

[Edited on 12-29-2018 by chuckie]


The stupid is strong in this post too..

chuckie - 12-29-2018 at 02:23 PM

Thank you BUBBA (I went to school in Pismo Beach)

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 02:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Thank you BUBBA (I went to school in Pismo Beach)


Careful there Chuckles or your head might explode.

JoeJustJoe - 12-29-2018 at 02:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Back it up with Claymore mines, set low enough to get ALL the women and kids....Put that on live TV THEN the Bubba boys will be happy.....



I think you can only get away with doing that in Israel, where they practice apartheid laws.

BTW, in a little country like Israel, where its easier to put up walls. The Palestinians and other Muslim, countries dig tunnels all over the place and come out on the other side.

Walls don't work, and they are often powerless against ladders and shovels.

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 03:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
Modern military tactics 101 versus a medieval wall

If the wall is built, the protective fields of fire are now on our side of the border when the wall is crossed over our breached by a massed hoard. Innocent Americans now become collateral damage.

A massed hoard, now armed to the teeth, shooting willy nilly across the border into the innocents?
Provide proof of this assertion, with statements from ANYONE.


The CBP guys don't want the wall exactly for this reason.
As of now the protective and defensive fields of fire are on the Mexican side of the border where it belongs.

Are you SURE?....

"In a survey conducted by the National Border Patrol Council, the agents’ union, they overwhelmingly supported adding a “wall system” in strategic locations, embracing President Trump’s argument that it will boost their ability to nab or deter would-be illegal immigrants"

“The U.S. Border Patrol has been very clear that a border wall is essential to gaining operational control of the Southwest border,” said Benjamine Huffman, the chief of the Border Patrol’s strategic plan and analysis directorate. “The fact is, when it comes to border security, the border walls system works. Suggestions that the Border Patrol believes otherwise are false.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/politics/border-patrol...

Please include a link, a citation or other evidence that PROVES your assertion the CBP, who are on the ground 7/24 365, don't' want the wall.


The wall is pure political Mattis & Haley in 2020

How can it be pure political or ANYTHING when it's not even 2020 yet?


Timinator - 12-29-2018 at 03:53 PM

Walls are used around the world and have been effective for thousands of years. The new wall in San Diego has been such a huge deterrent, agents are asking for the identical wall be built across as much as possible of the border.

The only way around a massive wall is to change the law that anybody found in the country illegally cannot ask for asylum and is automatically deported. I'd like to see their home country charged for all incarceration and deportation costs too.

While we're at it, we need voter ID laws just like Mexico too. No ID, not vote.

DaliDali - 12-29-2018 at 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cancamo  


El Gato has it right, a wall will do nothing to stop anyone who wants over, around, through, or under it. How many tunnels exist in the border zone alone, not to mention the possibilities in the vast frontier of the border.

.



El Gato has it wrong......you swallowed it whole.

PROOF has been provided to you, a wall will work.
You provide NOTHING it won't work.

Tunnels.....modern tech...vibration detection devises....up pops the rat....out come the cuffs....hook up.

Ladders.....one at time up and over.....drones shooting the images to nearby agents...….hooked up before they can get to the bottom.

Go around it...…...WHERE?.....ok ok swim the Rio Grande...more agents who are freed up from the other areas being secure......hook up.....while the water still drips off their backs.
River patrol boats......7/24 365.....net em out of the water.

Sling shot over it?....nah
Flying cars to get over it?......sci-fi
Dynamite?....seriously"

Vast possibilities in the frontier?.. After trekking the vast frontier, laden down with tunneling gear, supports, chains, rope, lighting, air pump devises, air lines, lumber to shore it all up, 18' long ladders, a catapult and a crate of dynamite.

No buildings to hide the gear, a creostoe bush for cover, and pop out into the "vast" frontier......where the only foe is flying drones and CBP on 7/24 365 patrol.

While a roaming drone films it all.....the HOURS upon HOURS it would take to dig down 10', 10' high piles of fresh dirt/sand....under the wall, dig UP 10', another 10' high pile of fresh dirt/sand....and crawl out ONE AT A TIME......

ANOTHER NON SERIOUS EXCUSE



[Edited on 12-29-2018 by DaliDali]

Cancamo - 12-30-2018 at 10:05 AM

Dali, you have made my point precisely, with modern technology, ie: motion sensors, drones, detection devices, satellites, and more CBP, why would you need a wall?

Or if a wall would work, why would you need all of the above????

"The Wall" is a shiny object to keep the base focused, nothing more.

Who Dat Did Done da Deed ?

MrBillM - 12-30-2018 at 10:10 AM

Tit for Tat here won't settle THAT.

The polling (currently running against the Reichsfuhrer) WILL.

And that will determine the course and content of the eventual compromise.

Stay tuned Thursday or Friday. NOTHING is likely to occur prior to 03 January and that first day is probably going to be mostly procedural.

It "could" be a lot of fun.

shari - 12-30-2018 at 10:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  

Not a single liberal idea built the United States into the country that everybody else in the world wants to migrate to, they were all Conservative principles. Keep that in mind.


Only Americans say this.....I dont mind Americans being proud of their country as they are taught to be....but this whole bull crap about EVERYONE wanting to migrate there is simply not true.

chuckie - 12-30-2018 at 10:40 AM

Right on Shari....

DaliDali - 12-30-2018 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cancamo  
Dali, you have made my point precisely, with modern technology, ie: motion sensors, drones, detection devices, satellites, and more CBP, why would you need a wall?

Or if a wall would work, why would you need all of the above????

"The Wall" is a shiny object to keep the base focused, nothing more.


CBP has sensors, drones, detection devises and more CBP agents in place now.

"Over the last 24 years, the Border Patrol has already expanded significantly, from fewer than 5,000 agents in 1992 to just under 20,000 FY 2016

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/07/07/struggling-...

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-the-border-patrol-uses-tech-to...

https://www.livescience.com/5504-radar-aims-detect-illegal-t...

And still.....nearly half a million illegals are apprehended each year. 50,000 thousand a month.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

And still dangerous drugs get in every day, every week and every year..
Still criminal illegal aliens get in.....

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistic...

A wall never sleeps, rain, shine, lightening, flash floods, 115 degress, no sick time, never a vacation, no pregnancy leave, no fuel, no batteries, no horse feed or corrals, no 4x4 quads, no pay issues, never goes on strike, no political issues, no tech issues, loss of connectivity, signal strength or the wrath of gawd.
Everyday, week in and week out, month in and month out......the wall is there to deter all manners of those seeking to enter illegally.

Those who do manage to somehow get by that wall, the tech you mention, is there to alert the CBP who is on patrol 7/24 365

Hook em up.



DaliDali - 12-30-2018 at 11:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shari  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  

Not a single liberal idea built the United States into the country that everybody else in the world wants to migrate to, they were all Conservative principles. Keep that in mind.


Only Americans say this.....I dont mind Americans being proud of their country as they are taught to be....but this whole bull crap about EVERYONE wanting to migrate there is simply not true.


The facts..from the horses mouth DHS

From Albania to Zimbabwe....by the numbers.
FY 2015 to FY 2017
.Immigants to the USA.

"The 2017 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics is a compendium of tables that provide data on foreign nationals who are granted lawful permanent residence (i.e., immigrants who receive a “green card”), admitted as temporary nonimmigrants, granted asylum or refugee status, or are naturalized"

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017/tab...

The USA leads the entire world in immigration.

"By a wide margin, the U.S. has more immigrants than any other country in the world. As of 2015, the United Nations estimates that 46.6 million people living in the United States were not born there. This means that about one-in-five international migrants (19%) live in the U.S. The U.S. immigrant population is nearly four times that of the world’s next largest immigrant destination – Germany, with about 12 million immigrants"

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/18/5-facts-abou...






Lee - 12-30-2018 at 01:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shari  
Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  

Not a single liberal idea built the United States into the country that everybody else in the world wants to migrate to, they were all Conservative principles. Keep that in mind.


Only Americans say this.....I dont mind Americans being proud of their country as they are taught to be....but this whole bull crap about EVERYONE wanting to migrate there is simply not true.


Looks like a home run from here.

ncampion - 12-30-2018 at 02:01 PM

Here’s the real reason Democrats are so opposed to the wall even though just a few years ago they were in favor of it. It’s all about voters and power. They know that the birth rate of immigrants is 3 – 4 times that of native American citizens and in just a generation or two they will control the country until it’s ultimate collapse. The following is reprinted from another source but undeniably true.

Democrats have abandoned the traditional working-class American voter for the sake of importing millions from the third world who tend to vote for big government and a leftist welfare state.
Since the left cannot convince the traditional working-class American voter to come over to their side, they have adopted another strategy. That strategy is to replace that voter with different voters who are more likely to vote for free stuff from the government – namely third world immigrants.
This is indeed the only way the Democrats can win, and if they succeed in tipping the electorate’s demographics enough, they will presumably win forever. To realize this simple truth, you needn’t look any further than the 2016 or 2018 election voting trends by demographic groups.
The Democrats are betting that by 2020 or 2024, the country’s electorate will be composed mainly of mindless neo-Marxist millennials and third-world immigrants who both share a proclivity for voting for the modern leftist nanny state.
A wall would inevitably mean a drastic reduction in illegal third world immigration into this country. If Trump and working-class American voters get their wall, it will muck up and drastically slow down the Democrats’ plans for demographic change in the states. This would give individuals who find themselves on today’s ‘right’; conservatives, classical liberals, etc., time to convince indoctrinated working-class millennials that voting for leftists is entirely against their interests.
Because these days very few rightists are moving to the left, this is a game Democrats do not wish to play. As each day passes, and as the overtone window shifts, more and more people realize that there is no place for them on the modern neo-Marxist left. Increasingly, if you fall under any of the following labels, the neo-Marxist Democrats have identified and labeled you as an ‘oppressor’: Christians, cisgendered (i.e., male or female), straight and ethnically Caucasian men and women of the working class.
As it becomes more and more apparent to those who fall under these categories that the Democrats have abandoned them and even wish to replace them, greater and greater numbers will inevitably gravitate towards conservatism.
As we head into the second week of the government shutdown over the funding of the border wall, we shouldn’t expect Democrats to give up an inch of territory. Remember, for their strategy to be successful they must have a foreign invasion. The traditional domestic population of this country does not share the modern Democrat’s worldview any longer, and they are well aware of this.

imlost - 12-30-2018 at 02:30 PM

I'm guessing the House Dems don't budge on the funding for the "wall". No money - no buildy. Though this conversation has been somewhat eye-opening, the lack of funding will likely make this whole discussion a moot point.

With more than 60% of illegal immigration stemming from over-staying visas - not climbing, jumping, swimming and tunneling, the place to improve border control is with improved policy. Along with improved policy, needs to be a mechanism that allows easier asylum/integration. Why? Because if you make it too difficult to assimilate, people will just try to do it illegally.

Were your parents or grandparents direct immigrants to the US? What makes the Country so great, is that it is a melting pot of ambitious, hard-working people who want a better life. It's not so difficult to see that our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents were of this mindset; wanting more than the oppression and poverty they fled. The basis of immigration is what the US was founded-on, and is still equally important today. We're hypocrites if we don't make an effort to make it work.

None of the aforementioned will make any sense if you're racist. If you're for the "wall", examine your motivation.

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by imlost]

South Africa, Kenya and Nigeria experience problems too

wessongroup - 12-30-2018 at 04:45 PM

For a global "view" on opinions on immigration and/or emigration ... please see:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/10/many-worldwi...

One can easily see that race is not a singular defining issue globally

Only Dummies Love Trump ?

MrBillM - 12-30-2018 at 09:12 PM

Clearly, other than Racist, Low IQ, Hateful Whites voted for Dirtbag Donald.

The reasons were many. Not least of which was the deep animus for Hillary and a desire among frustrated voters who'd been letdown repeatedly by the broken promises of the entrenched politico class who said whatever necessary (without sincerity) to insure their own continuing spot at the public feeding trough. For many (too many) a vote for the conman was a giant F - U to the system.

No, you didn't have to be dumb or racist to have voted for Trump, although he certainly got 90+ percent of the latter group. The affair with Donald for those who hate is glorious truelove.

BUT you DO have to be a real Dimwit to actually BELIEVE the B.S. he peddles.

chuckie - 12-30-2018 at 09:36 PM

After this past several weeks...there can be NO doubt the man is nuts

Bubba - 12-31-2018 at 06:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
After this past several weeks...there can be NO doubt the man is nuts


:lol:

elgatoloco - 12-31-2018 at 08:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ncampion  
Here’s the real reason Democrats are so opposed to the wall even though just a few years ago they were in favor of it. It’s all about voters and power. They know that the birth rate of immigrants is 3 – 4 times that of native American citizens and in just a generation or two they will control the country until it’s ultimate collapse. The following is reprinted from another source but undeniably true.

Democrats have abandoned the traditional working-class American voter for the sake of importing millions from the third world who tend to vote for big government and a leftist welfare state.
Since the left cannot convince the traditional working-class American voter to come over to their side, they have adopted another strategy. That strategy is to replace that voter with different voters who are more likely to vote for free stuff from the government – namely third world immigrants.
This is indeed the only way the Democrats can win, and if they succeed in tipping the electorate’s demographics enough, they will presumably win forever. To realize this simple truth, you needn’t look any further than the 2016 or 2018 election voting trends by demographic groups.
The Democrats are betting that by 2020 or 2024, the country’s electorate will be composed mainly of mindless neo-Marxist millennials and third-world immigrants who both share a proclivity for voting for the modern leftist nanny state.
A wall would inevitably mean a drastic reduction in illegal third world immigration into this country. If Trump and working-class American voters get their wall, it will muck up and drastically slow down the Democrats’ plans for demographic change in the states. This would give individuals who find themselves on today’s ‘right’; conservatives, classical liberals, etc., time to convince indoctrinated working-class millennials that voting for leftists is entirely against their interests.
Because these days very few rightists are moving to the left, this is a game Democrats do not wish to play. As each day passes, and as the overtone window shifts, more and more people realize that there is no place for them on the modern neo-Marxist left. Increasingly, if you fall under any of the following labels, the neo-Marxist Democrats have identified and labeled you as an ‘oppressor’: Christians, cisgendered (i.e., male or female), straight and ethnically Caucasian men and women of the working class.
As it becomes more and more apparent to those who fall under these categories that the Democrats have abandoned them and even wish to replace them, greater and greater numbers will inevitably gravitate towards conservatism.
As we head into the second week of the government shutdown over the funding of the border wall, we shouldn’t expect Democrats to give up an inch of territory. Remember, for their strategy to be successful they must have a foreign invasion. The traditional domestic population of this country does not share the modern Democrat’s worldview any longer, and they are well aware of this.


This must be from MSNBC right? Please provide link. :saint:;)


elgatoloco - 12-31-2018 at 08:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
After this past several weeks...there can be NO doubt the man is nuts


De-nile is not just a river in Egypt. :lol:

wessongroup - 12-31-2018 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
Clearly, other than Racist, Low IQ, Hateful Whites voted for Dirtbag Donald.

The reasons were many. Not least of which was the deep animus for Hillary and a desire among frustrated voters who'd been letdown repeatedly by the broken promises of the entrenched politico class who said whatever necessary (without sincerity) to insure their own continuing spot at the public feeding trough. For many (too many) a vote for the conman was a giant F - U to the system.

No, you didn't have to be dumb or racist to have voted for Trump, although he certainly got 90+ percent of the latter group. The affair with Donald for those who hate is glorious truelove.

BUT you DO have to be a real Dimwit to actually BELIEVE the B.S. he peddles.


Was discussing the educational level of those who voted for Hillary ... Not Trump

Is someone stating that the Black voting block has a higher educational level than White voters ... or Hispanic's ?

It isn't a trick question ... and I have stated many times I did NOT support Trump on any issue, other than Immigration ... That would be reducing the number of Illegal Immigrants ... Where ever they come from ... By following the existing LAW on the books in Title 8 ... period

IF the Dem's wish to change the current immigration LAW .... Then change it and get on with business ... this has been going on since the 60's

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

The link is from 2015 which should have included the majority of voters in the 2016 election

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by wessongroup]

A Trick Question ?

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 11:05 AM

Well, Yes, sort of.

In that, it's a (typically Trumpian) misdirection.

Educational levels among minorities (most especially Blacks) is not really an issue in current Presidential politics. The Black vote (especially among Black women) is fairly monolithic. Blacks are solidly wedded to the Democratic BECAUSE they currently feel (with justification) that the Democrats better represent their interests and welfare.

The debate over educational levels among likely white voters IS of interest and analysis in that their voting inclinations are subject to movement dependent on a variety of issues and interests.

ANY look at White voting patterns yields a significant percentage of said voters ranging the entire breadth of the ideological spectrum with the Independents representing the key to swinging a Presidential election. Understanding and addressing THEIR considerations is the key to victory.

mtgoat666 - 12-31-2018 at 11:05 AM

Trump is a pathological liar. He lies every day. He is amoral. He talks about hiringg american, buying american; then staffs his resorts with low wage east europeans on temp work visas, produces his products in china.
His immorality and lieing is not tolerable in a head of state. He should be opposed on every issue. He is a liar, he is not to be trusted on anything, he must be opposed on everything.

He spouts hateful rhetoric about veterans and mexicans.

His rallies are racist mobs.

Trump is an embarrassing stain on usa history.

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by mtgoat666]

The Wall is NO LONGER a Wall ?

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 12:03 PM

It's a Metaphor ?

Which could be good news.

How much per foot does a Metaphor cost ?

JoeJustJoe - 12-31-2018 at 12:13 PM

Great catch of Wesson's misdirection, and Wesson, black bashing, another one of his favorite targets to tar and feather.

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
Well, Yes, sort of.

In that, it's a (typically Trumpian) misdirection.

Educational levels among minorities (most especially Blacks) is not really an issue in current Presidential politics. The Black vote (especially among Black women) is fairly monolithic. Blacks are solidly wedded to the Democratic BECAUSE they currently feel (with justification) that the Democrats better represent their interests and welfare.

The debate over educational levels among likely white voters IS of interest and analysis in that their voting inclinations are subject to movement dependent on a variety of issues and interests.

ANY look at White voting patterns yields a significant percentage of said voters ranging the entire breadth of the ideological spectrum with the Independents representing the key to swinging a Presidential election. Understanding and addressing THEIR considerations is the key to victory.

motoged - 12-31-2018 at 12:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
It's a Metaphor ?

Which could be good news.

How much per foot does a Metaphor cost ?


Depends on what you are comparing it to.....without using the words "like" or "as"....:light:

John Harper - 12-31-2018 at 01:22 PM

I also see that 13 million Canadians per year came in legally during the same time period. I wonder why no one is complaining about those illegal Canadians stealing our jobs? Maybe a border wall there also?

If legal/illegal immigration is proportional to Mexico's border, it seems we likely have a serious problem up north. I would assume risk takers (illegal crossers) among both groups (Canadian/Mexican) would be the same percentage of the population.

John

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]

ncampion - 12-31-2018 at 01:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elgatoloco  
Quote: Originally posted by ncampion  
Here’s the real reason Democrats are so opposed to the wall even though just a few years ago they were in favor of it. It’s all about voters and power. They know that the birth rate of immigrants is 3 – 4 times that of native American citizens and in just a generation or two they will control the country until it’s ultimate collapse. The following is reprinted from another source but undeniably true.

Democrats have abandoned the traditional working-class American voter for the sake of importing millions from the third world who tend to vote for big government and a leftist welfare state.
Since the left cannot convince the traditional working-class American voter to come over to their side, they have adopted another strategy. That strategy is to replace that voter with different voters who are more likely to vote for free stuff from the government – namely third world immigrants.
This is indeed the only way the Democrats can win, and if they succeed in tipping the electorate’s demographics enough, they will presumably win forever. To realize this simple truth, you needn’t look any further than the 2016 or 2018 election voting trends by demographic groups.
The Democrats are betting that by 2020 or 2024, the country’s electorate will be composed mainly of mindless neo-Marxist millennials and third-world immigrants who both share a proclivity for voting for the modern leftist nanny state.
A wall would inevitably mean a drastic reduction in illegal third world immigration into this country. If Trump and working-class American voters get their wall, it will muck up and drastically slow down the Democrats’ plans for demographic change in the states. This would give individuals who find themselves on today’s ‘right’; conservatives, classical liberals, etc., time to convince indoctrinated working-class millennials that voting for leftists is entirely against their interests.
Because these days very few rightists are moving to the left, this is a game Democrats do not wish to play. As each day passes, and as the overtone window shifts, more and more people realize that there is no place for them on the modern neo-Marxist left. Increasingly, if you fall under any of the following labels, the neo-Marxist Democrats have identified and labeled you as an ‘oppressor’: Christians, cisgendered (i.e., male or female), straight and ethnically Caucasian men and women of the working class.
As it becomes more and more apparent to those who fall under these categories that the Democrats have abandoned them and even wish to replace them, greater and greater numbers will inevitably gravitate towards conservatism.
As we head into the second week of the government shutdown over the funding of the border wall, we shouldn’t expect Democrats to give up an inch of territory. Remember, for their strategy to be successful they must have a foreign invasion. The traditional domestic population of this country does not share the modern Democrat’s worldview any longer, and they are well aware of this.


This must be from MSNBC right? Please provide link. :saint:;)



No link, just common sense statements. What do you disagree with?

Those who would hide their Source .....................

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 02:05 PM

............ Have something to hide.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  


I also see that 13 million Canadians per year came in legally during the same time period. I wonder why no one is complaining about those illegal Canadians stealing our jobs? Maybe a border wall there also?


[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]


Good work John, you took the time to read all about it, rather than just blow off steam about racists and bigots.

Part of what you read contained the following caveats>>

"Admitted as temporary nonimmigrants, granted asylum or refugee status, or are naturalized"

Temporary Nonimmigrants include students, tourists and workers.

Canadian workers, students and tourists usually go home to Canada when their time of working, as a student or as a tourist comes to a close.
Mexican students, tourists and workers not as much. And so it goes about many temporary workers from other countries don't either...visa overstays are a big problem.

You should know that the US welcomes temporary workers who have skills and and won't be a drain on the resources of US taxpayers.

The US also welcomes low skilled workers to do the jobs Americans "won't do"
There is a legal process to do that....H-2A: Temporary Agricultural Worker

"For temporary or seasonal agricultural work. Limited to citizens or nationals of designated countries, with limited exceptions, if determined to be in the United States interest"

Read all about the qualifications to obtain that H-2A visa>>

http://www.visapro.com/work-visas/h2a-visa/

Filing fee for that H-2A visa is $460 USD and a one week processing time.
It's common knowledge that many migrants pay coyotes upwards of a $1000 or more to be guided to and beyond the border.....not sure the lack of money and being poor is a reason not to obtain one.......at the 9 US Consulates and 1 US Embassy in Mexico.

There is a legal process for workers to come into the US, be they computer nerds or AG workers.

Thousands upon thousands do it year in and year out.

<700,000> estimated visa overstays and <400,000> apprehensions (now telling how many evaded the gauntlet) in the SW border sector a YEAR.....it's a major problem.

John, I think you made a mistake on the legal and illegal Canadians taking the jobs.

"I also see that 13 million Canadians per year came in legally during the same time period. I wonder why no one is complaining about those illegal Canadians stealing our jobs? Maybe a border wall there also?


[Edited on 12-31-2018 by DaliDali]

John Harper - 12-31-2018 at 04:09 PM

No, if 19 million Mexicans came in legally and a certain % enter illegally above that, I'm just comparing that number against 13 million Canadians and their own potential illegal border crossers.

So, for example, if 1 million Mexicans (5% of 19 million) cross illegally, then almost 650,000 Canadians might also potentially cross illegally. I'm just assuming that 5% of Canadians are as much risk takers as those Mexicans. I'm not sure how you can compare each population's proclivity to violate national borders, so let's just assume they are the same in this example.

How many actual illegal crossings by Mexicans were there last year? Tell me that and we can sharpen the pencil. Then we can take a look at some agreed upon numbers.

Then, we can take a look at who is staying here illegally, how they got here, and why it's happening. My guess is visa overstays are way more likely to allow people in legally, and then remain illegally, than perhaps both borders being breached combined. Tighter visa controls might be a better solution than walls.

John

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]

JoeJustJoe - 12-31-2018 at 04:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
I also see that 13 million Canadians per year came in legally during the same time period. I wonder why no one is complaining about those illegal Canadians stealing our jobs? Maybe a border wall there also?

If legal/illegal immigration is proportional to Mexico's border, it seems we likely have a serious problem up north. I would assume risk takers (illegal crossers) among both groups (Canadian/Mexican) would be the same percentage of the population.

John

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]


It's an easy answer, because Canadians are white. That's why the xenophobes do not complain about Canadians, coming to the US and stealing jobs from Americans.

It's basically the same from most European nations. The immigrant haters usually don't say a word, but if immigrants are coming over from places like Mexico, Central American, Haiti or God forbid Africa or the Middle east, then they go nuts and demand the border be closed.

Immigration lotto is also not an even playing field for the darker skinned immigrants.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 04:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
No, if 19 million Mexicans came in legally and a certain % enter illegally above that, I'm just comparing that number against 13 million Canadians and their own potential illegal border crossers.

So, for example, if 1 million Mexicans (5% of 19 million) cross illegally, then almost 650,000 Canadians also potentially cross illegally. I'm just assuming that 5% of Canadians are as much risk takers as those Mexicans. I'm not sure how you can compare each population's proclivity to violate national borders, so let's just assume they are the same in this example.

How many illegal crossings by Mexicans were there last year? Tell me that and we can sharpen the pencil. Then we can take a look at some agreed upon numbers.

John

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]


Good call John.....sharpen the pencil.

Tighter visa controls is a great idea...only problem is, by virtue of being "illegal" they don't have a visa to control.

illegal crossings, by their very nature of "slipping in" are unknown. There are estimates only.
One can't count those who evaded the gauntlet agreed?

What is a KNOWN number, that may give some clues is..what i have previously posted on here.....direct from the people who do the counting.

Total apprehensions of illegals in the SW border sector are running 50,000 a month and +- 400,000 thousand a year.
CBP cannot "apprehend" people on the MX side, logical deduction would be those apprehensions would be on the US side......AFTER they crossed in illegally.
Can't be at the POE......those are turned around as "inadmissibles"

If 400K got caught, how many evaded the gauntlet?....
20%..30%...60%.

Based on the estimate 11 or so million, and much higher, illegals reported in the US now, a whole bunch slip through.

For round numbers only......just a guess.....lets say half of 400K slip though......that puts 200K illegal aliens a year inside the US. Year in and year out.
Not counting 600K-700K visa overstays per year from all countries.
Now it's bumping up to nearly a million per year in the US without permission to do so.

What I am not sure of is, what number is a permissible amount and counted as "incidentals", by virtue of having a shared border.
What is the amount you can live with, keeping in mind the billions upon billions it costs the ratepayers of this country in all costs associated with illegal aliens, and the costs (deadly) due to criminal activity and the costs of drug and human smuggling.

I have the official numbers on criminals apprehended and the amount of drugs confiscated if you care to see those also.
I also have the numbers of unaccompanied children stopped at the border also....10,000 in the first two months of FY 2019

No sabe "proclivity" of Canadians to jump the northern fence, when Canada is a first world country, relatively wealthy, functioning government and opportunities abound. Bail out of subzero temps maybe?
Why jump at all?....














[Edited on 12-31-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by DaliDali]

wessongroup - 12-31-2018 at 05:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
Well, Yes, sort of.

In that, it's a (typically Trumpian) misdirection.

Educational levels among minorities (most especially Blacks) is not really an issue in current Presidential politics. The Black vote (especially among Black women) is fairly monolithic. Blacks are solidly wedded to the Democratic BECAUSE they currently feel (with justification) that the Democrats better represent their interests and welfare.

The debate over educational levels among likely white voters IS of interest and analysis in that their voting inclinations are subject to movement dependent on a variety of issues and interests.

ANY look at White voting patterns yields a significant percentage of said voters ranging the entire breadth of the ideological spectrum with the Independents representing the key to swinging a Presidential election. Understanding and addressing THEIR considerations is the key to victory.


The point was the "educational level" of voters .... within the two groups identified by Pew Research .... which carried the vote for Hillary ... Poor and Rich

The "middle class" supported Trump ... as found by Pew... link supplied above some place

Personally I don't find higher education as a guarantee of reasonable thought in all cases.

Another question which could be helpful is assessing the educational level of voter's ... the area of study of those who voted for Hillary with higher education in the STEM Education field compared to those with higher education that voted for Trump with the same area of study in STEM field :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by wessongroup]

BornFisher - 12-31-2018 at 08:28 PM

The demographic group of white males without college diplomas who voted for Trump is valid. They voted for Trump because they were the ones who were screwed the most under Obama. And knew it would continue with Hillary.
Just because they have no diplomas on their walls doesn`t mean they are stupid and blind.

John Harper - 1-1-2019 at 06:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
No sabe "proclivity" of Canadians to jump the northern fence, when Canada is a first world country, relatively wealthy, functioning government and opportunities abound. Bail out of subzero temps maybe?
Why jump at all?....


I don't know, but 13 million per year immigrated legally, which is surprising in itself. Especially considering the favorable living conditions in Canada. I guess we really are a "shining city on the hill."

Happy New Year!!!

John

Bubba - 1-1-2019 at 07:24 AM

I don't know, but 13 million per year immigrated legally, which is surprising in itself. Especially considering the favorable living conditions in Canada. I guess we really are a "shining city on the hill."

Happy New Year!!!

John[/rquote]

Very interesting and Happy New Year!

DaliDali - 1-1-2019 at 08:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
No sabe "proclivity" of Canadians to jump the northern fence, when Canada is a first world country, relatively wealthy, functioning government and opportunities abound. Bail out of subzero temps maybe?
Why jump at all?....


I don't know, but 13 million per year immigrated legally, which is surprising in itself. Especially considering the favorable living conditions in Canada. I guess we really are a "shining city on the hill."

Happy New Year!!!

John


Remember John...….those 13 million are non immigrants...
Those that visit, schooling, temporary work or other reasons not associated with permanent residence.
Who go home when it's all done (or the vast majority)
Nor harm no foul there.

Maybe it's just a few "beacons of light" rather than a thousand

For "immigrants" seeking to live in the US and become legal residents, there is a whole different set of numbers.

Which can be found here>>>

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017/tab...

Canada numbers for actual people wanting to take up legal residence in the USA is FY 2017 18.5K

Browned skinned South America is 75.5K FY 2017
Brown skinned Central America is 52.9K FY 2017
Brown skinned Mexico is 167K FY 2017
Africa is 166.6K FY 2017

Brown skinned Asia is 404K FY 2017

Brown skinned Caribbean is 173.7K FY 2017

White skinned Europe is 89.7K FY 2017

Which shoots down the assertion by one Nomad member, that the USA is racist and bigoted towards brown skinned peoples.


Happy New Years to you and yours....


Check out the webcam at Silver Lake resort in the June lake loop area of the Sierras, for the snow pack(or lack of)....one of my favorite hangouts.
http://silverlakeresort.net/live-webcam-lake/







John Harper - 1-1-2019 at 08:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  

Check out the webcam at Silver Lake resort in the June lake loop area of the Sierras, for the snow pack(or lack of)....one of my favorite hangouts.
http://silverlakeresort.net/live-webcam-lake/


I'm pretty sure a friends brother-in-law's family owns that place! I like to camp in that area as well. The tiny campground up by Walker Lake is a nice little spot, and both Walker and Parker are so beautiful, Parker especially scenic hike. Nice little outlet creek at Parker for some fun brookies and browns.

John

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by John Harper]

The Klan's Candidate of Choice

MrBillM - 1-1-2019 at 10:30 AM

While impossible to prove, reason and empirical evidence (including endorsements) make it fairly certain that (statistically) virtually all White Supremacists, etc. who voted for President chose Trump. The alternatives would have been Clinton or Stein.

Go ahead and try to make an argument that either of those would have been the choice for ANY of the "Make America White First" crowd.

Athbhlian faoi mhaise dhuit

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by MrBillM]

Barry A. - 1-1-2019 at 01:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
While impossible to prove, reason and empirical evidence (including endorsements) make it fairly certain that (statistically) virtually all White Supremacists, etc. who voted for President chose Trump. The alternatives would have been Clinton or Stein.

Go ahead and try to make an argument that either of those would have been the choice for ANY of the "Make America White First" crowd.

Athbhlian faoi mhaise dhuit

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by MrBillM]




-------and your conclusion is???????

HAPPY NEW YEAR to you, too, Bill.



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