BajaNomad - FMM--- Need it or don't need it? The latest from the line

Sounds like they are saving paper and/or saving doing the work?
What if you had to stay in Mexico longer for any reason or were the victim of a crime? I think I would insist on getting the FMM.

What does being a victim of a crime have to do with getting a FMM?

David K - 12-29-2018 at 11:37 AM

Simple, when questioned by the police, I wouldn't want to be in Mexico without papers. Give them no excuse to not try harder to get the bad guy.

Alm - 12-29-2018 at 11:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Well, I guess we are at least consistently inconsistent on the subject.

Yes, we (Mexico) are. Generally low level of integrity has been integral to this country for as long as I remember.

Thanks for holiday laugh.

thebajarunner - 12-29-2018 at 11:55 AM

"Victim of a crime"
Well, I remember the extremely unfortunate incident recently where a Baja 1000 race team was returning to Ensenada from Ojos Negros and a young Mexican woman, hopped up on all kinds of chemicals, came across the line and hit their rig and she died. And all the race team went off to jail so it could be sorted out.

Guess some days JJJ just doesn't seem able to follow the bouncing ball, sad to say.

These guys were the ultimate "victims" and their 'reward' was a trip to the cross bar hotel.

Wake up Joe, smell the aroman!!!

bajaguy - 12-29-2018 at 12:04 PM

I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I needed the FMM and have to tell the authorities the......."very friendly young woman at the immigration desk said Your'e good..........."

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 12:16 PM

I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I needed the FMM and have to tell the authorities the......."very friendly young woman at the immigration desk said Your'e good..........."

Winner!

David K - 12-29-2018 at 01:49 PM

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

sancho - 12-29-2018 at 02:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Well, I guess we are at least consistently inconsistent on the subject.

When the new Imm TJ build opened, the one on the east side
of Hwy 5, every ped tourist was issued a 7 day or 180,
If you didn't have a passport/passport card you were
escorted back to the US. Seems things have eased up.
Was a post yrs. back. saying 'the Immigration regs are what
the Imm officer says they are at he time of your crossing'

JoeJustJoe - 12-29-2018 at 02:32 PM

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

Well that makes a lot more sense, than telling people you need the FMM, in case you're a crime victim, and then implying if they don't have the FMM tourist permit, the Mexican cops. will just let you lie there in your own blood.

We need to also know the laws in Mexico, and that even as a foreigner, you have basic human rights, and Constitutional rights, regardless of citizenship or FMM tourist permits.

Sorry, about the retard comments, it was more directed towards the group think of anecdotal horror stories that have nothing to do with the FMM.

Bubba - 12-29-2018 at 02:37 PM

, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.[/rquote]

Exactly, the United States included and if others don't respect it then it is our responsibility to enforce it.

Alm - 12-29-2018 at 05:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

I remember the extremely unfortunate incident recently where a Baja 1000 race team was returning to Ensenada from Ojos Negros and a young Mexican woman, hopped up on all kinds of chemicals, came across the line and hit their rig and she died. And all the race team went off to jail so it could be sorted out.

I'm trying to understand how FMM is related to this.

Did that team have FMM, and did they have Mexican insurance for their rig?
If the answer to at least one of the questions is No, then they had it coming.
If the answer to both questions is Yes, then either Mex system malfunctioned (does happen), or the information is incomplete - ex, they were detained and soon released until the court appearance, and/or had to spend one night in jail because the insurance adjuster or judge (or whoever was responsible for their release) was not available due to remoteness and/or holidays.

[Edited on 12-30-2018 by Alm]

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 10:58 AM

I have never gotten one of these.

Should I?

I will be flying into Cabo then renting a car and driving up to La Paz if that matters.

Please advise, thank you!!

willardguy - 5-9-2019 at 11:04 AM

it'll be included in your airfare

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 11:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

it'll be included in your airfare

Oh ok. I was a bit baffled there as like I said, never got one that I guess I knew of.
Thank you

boe4fun - 5-9-2019 at 11:15 AM

Mother, are you flying Targaryen Airways?

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 11:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by boe4fun

Mother, are you flying Targaryen Airways?

In my dreams, lol

David K - 5-9-2019 at 11:37 AM

Nice avatar!

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 12:46 PM

Nice avatar!

YAY!! I can do better than that though lol

bajaguy - 5-9-2019 at 01:04 PM

Just remember this the next time the film crew "fixer" says it's not necessary

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

JoeJustJoe - 5-9-2019 at 01:41 PM

I have never gotten one of these.

Should I?

I will be flying into Cabo then renting a car and driving up to La Paz if that matters.

Please advise, thank you!!

If you're flying in the airlines and Cabo, have procedures in place in place where all foreigners will be checked and the airline will give you a FMM to fill out, and it's already added to the cost of your flight fees.

Now if you're taking a day trip to Tijuana, or Rosarito, by car, Mexico doesn't have procedures in place to stop and check everyone entering Mexico, and getting all foreigners to get a FMM, unless they enter as pedestrians, and even then about half the time they will simply hand back your passport to you without filling out anything if you tell them your trip is less than seven days, especially if you tell them it's a day trip.

Most travelers crossing the US/Mexico border, especially Mexican-Americans, know this and blow pass any stops and parking lots to get a FMM and they just enjoy their time in Baja.

In fact if Mexico, checked everybody coming into Mexico by car, couldn't handle the traffic, and the lines would be at least one hour long just like when you travel back to the US side.

So the fixer, did exactly the right thing, and that's the practice by most travelers to Mexico on brief trips. Of course, David K. could have got up on some stand and told all the TV crew about Mexican immigration laws and insisted they all go get a FMM, because some million to one possible accident. However, I suspect the TV crew wouldn't listen to David K, and would probably follow the advise of the fixer.

Of course you will get a lot of people here saying it's the LAW it the LAW, and you have to have a FMM anytime you enter Mexico, and I just roll my eyes and say.....whatever. And I usually do the opposite of the advice I read here.

The Fixer gave the better advise in my opinion.

[Edited on 5-9-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 5-9-2019 at 02:06 PM

I was one of 8 Americans, and the crew was very cool and respectful. Before we met, I told the producer what Mexico requires at the border. They paid for this Mexican media fixer service and while I questioned our Mexican host about getting tourist permits, it was not my intention to tell her what her job was or that she was mistaken. I went with the flow. When I am driving, then I stop to get a new one if my last is expired.

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 04:57 PM

Just remember this the next time the film crew "fixer" says it's not necessary

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

Is someone working on a film in Rosarito? My neighbor is right now. Or was that just sarcastic ‘perfect answer’ joking?

willardguy - 5-9-2019 at 05:08 PM

Just remember this the next time the film crew "fixer" says it's not necessary

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

Is someone working on a film in Rosarito? My neighbor is right now. Or was that just sarcastic ‘perfect answer’ joking?

lots of filming going on at what was fox studios.....what are they shooting?

Mother of Dragons - 5-9-2019 at 05:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Just remember this the next time the film crew "fixer" says it's not necessary

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

Is someone working on a film in Rosarito? My neighbor is right now. Or was that just sarcastic ‘perfect answer’ joking?

Some movie using the Titanic bays. Think he said Chinese movie. He normally does the superhero stuff in ATL but he def said this was action down there,

lots of filming going on at what was fox studios.....what are they shooting?

willardguy - 5-9-2019 at 05:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Just remember this the next time the film crew "fixer" says it's not necessary

Retarded, to obey Mexican law? Even if nobody stops you at the border to check for it, one should respect the immigration law of a country you visit... In my opinion, anyway.

Is someone working on a film in Rosarito? My neighbor is right now. Or was that just sarcastic ‘perfect answer’ joking?

good to see something going on there....except for a couple zombie episodes its been dead.

sancho - 5-9-2019 at 06:25 PM

I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I needed the FMM and have to tell the authorities the......."very friendly young woman at the immigration desk said Your'e good..........."

Perfect answer, who would want to intentionally give a Mex cop or other
authority leverage on you because you lack proper Immigration
papers, whether due to laziness or saving the $$ for a 180 fmm.
Leverage to extract $$$ mordida or worse

JoeJustJoe - 5-9-2019 at 07:17 PM

It might be a perfect answer if any municipal Mexican cop or corrupt cops were actually shaking down foreign tourists for not having a FMM. I haven't heard of one case where any cop was skaking down tourists for not having a FMM and I myself have been stopped by corrupt cops asking me if I have drugs or have been drinking.

All the cops would have to do is ask to see my FMM that I rarely have when I'm in Baja, and they could ask for a big fat mordida, which I would not pay.

Face it.....it doesn't happen and I doubt with all the baja sites there is one story where a Mexican cop tried to shake down a tourist a few miles from the border for not having a FMM( first hand accounts only)

I also doubt municipal cops enforce Mexican immigration laws.

sancho - 5-10-2019 at 08:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

It might be a perfect answer if any municipal Mexican cop
I also doubt municipal cops enforce Mexican immigration laws.

Curious as your repeating the reference to City Cops,
I didn't indicate which Police Agency. You seem to be unsure
on Fed cops jurisdiction.
Most of us don't spend time stumbling down Revolution
Ave., intoxicated running into City Cops. Being involved
in a serious Hwy accident, your advice is that having proper Imm papers is not necessary. I hope no one takes that advice

fishbuck - 5-10-2019 at 08:38 AM

On this note.
Mexico Immigration will only accept a Passport or card for FMM. No enhanced IDs.
It only takes a few minutes to get and is about $30.
Always obey the law.
And why take a chance. Not worth ruining you trip for.

JoeJustJoe - 5-10-2019 at 08:52 PM

The reason I bring up municipal cops is because those are the Mexican police tourists will run into and they don't enforce immigration laws. Then again, there are the Federal Preventive Police, and I don't think they enforce immigration laws. The INM does immigration, as does the Mexican military. I would rack my brain, listing all the city, state, and Federal police, and what each department did, but feel free to list it.

I just believe the majority of Mexico visitors hit the cities and beach areas not the dirt bike trails.

"Stumbling down Revolution?" Who does that?; Maybe 20.years ago, althought there are a lot of new hip bars in the area, but hardly places older Nomad members would visit.

The fact that you have or not have a FMM and get into an accident in Baja will have no bearing what happens to you, and it sounds like you are rehashing old wives tales without being specific.

I would be more concerned if I had health insurance in Baja if I got into an accident than having a FMM.

[Edited on 5-11-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

fishbuck - 5-10-2019 at 11:36 PM

I heard one...
The insurance you buy is to insure the driver... not the car.
And if you are not in the country legally, techically you license is not valid. The insurance can refuse to honer it's contract obligation because the insurance doesn't cover a non-valid license.
I know. A bit contrived. But plausible enough to make you wonder...
I had a hard time hearing all that over the music and bar noise.
From Howard. Lived there like 100 years on Old Mill road. Kind of across the street and down a little. Super cool. Old hand.
If you get to Jardine's opening time of happy hour (6pm I think) and for about hour or so after...
You can ask him yourself...

[Edited on 5-11-2019 by fishbuck]

David K - 5-11-2019 at 07:57 AM

Mike, the owner of Baja Bound Insurance, Baja Geoff, has spoken to their provider and was assured that immigration status (having the tourist card) is not considered when honoring a claim.

You must not be DUI, however!

mtgoat666 - 5-11-2019 at 08:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

"Stumbling down Revolution?" Who does that?; Maybe 20.years ago, althought there are a lot of new hip bars in the area, but hardly places older Nomad members would visit.

The elder nomads may not be stumbling drunk on Ave Revolution in TJ, but I know there are plenty of gray-haired (and bald) nomads stumbling drunk in San Felipe, BOLA, Mulegé, etc.

P.s. people should read their insurance contract, and not rely on hearsay from bloviating nomads regarding the need to have an fmm to ensure their auto insurance is valid!

JoeJustJoe - 5-11-2019 at 08:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck

I heard one...
The insurance you buy is to insure the driver... not the car.
And if you are not in the country legally, techically you license is not valid. The insurance can refuse to honer it's contract obligation because the insurance doesn't cover a non-valid license.
I know. A bit contrived. But plausible enough to make you wonder...
I had a hard time hearing all that over the music and bar noise.
From Howard. Lived there like 100 years on Old Mill road. Kind of across the street and down a little. Super cool. Old hand.
If you get to Jardine's opening time of happy hour (6pm I think) and for about hour or so after...
You can ask him yourself...

Oh no not the well regarded myth that if you get in an accident in Mexico/Baja, your auto insurance company won't pay the claim!

Well, that's a very popular myth on "Baja Nomad" and especially "Talk Baja," where it's repeated ad nauseam, as it's a fact. ( if you think it's a fact prove it)

Fishbait, in general when you get car insurance, it's the car that's insured and you follow the car, and it's one of the reasons why BajaGeoff, believes a car insurance will pay an auto claim even if you don't have proper documentation, in addition he said, he never heard of a car insurance claim not being paid because lack of proper documents, although he also said, he rather err to the side of caution.

You can also get auto insurance that covers the person, the car, or both.

Just recently over at "Talk Baja" they had the same myth going about getting into an accident and not having a FMM, and how your claim won't get paid. They had about 20 members in a roll, confirmed the myth, and said, you must have a FMM or your auto policy will not pay up, before one of their new moderators, who is tax attorney, poured cold water on that myth, and went on to explain why it's not true.

Remember, with insurance companies it's about all the declaration pages, and exclusions, that you have to read carefully what's excluded, and it should be material, and in my opinion not having a FMM is not material, especially when the US/Mexico border is wide open, and Mexico doesn't require cars to go through custom checks.

Fishbait, I'm also bothered anytime a member tells others to always obey the law, when I know for a fact they themselves don't always obey the law. I will leave it at that.

fishbuck - 5-11-2019 at 01:35 PM

If I am violating a law... please inform me and I will stop.
Pilots always fly by the regs.. if they want to keep their ticket...
We don't lie, cheat, or steal etc..

.

fishbuck - 5-11-2019 at 01:36 PM

I may make fun of things... but that don't mean nothin'

TedZark - 5-11-2019 at 02:11 PM

Somebody way above wrote:

"We need to also know the laws in Mexico, and that even as a foreigner, you have basic human rights, and Constitutional rights, regardless of citizenship or FMM tourist permits."

While this is a nice idea, my 30 years of living abroad in six different countries says, if you are the foreigner, in any situation, you really don't have any rights at all. Be smart. Be as legal as you can.

BajaMama - 5-12-2019 at 07:49 AM

I have never been arrested. Ever. I have gotten three moving violations, two for speeding and one for crossing double double yellow lines (did not know that was illegal). I used to enter Mexico w/o an FMM/permit. Until I learned it was a legal requirement. Since then I have never entered Mexico illegally. Once you know the law I feel it is disrespectful to intentionally disobey it (well, except for speeding....).

[Edited on 5-12-2019 by BajaNomad]

SFandH - 5-12-2019 at 08:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama

Once you know the law I feel it is disrespectful to intentionally disobey it (well, except for speeding....).

Ever smoke pot when you were younger?

And if you live in Colorado, don't keep a couch on your porch.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/news/g4039/crazy-state...

But, I agree FMMs should be obtained; however, I'll cut some slack for day/weekend trippers to the border region.

TedZark - 5-12-2019 at 08:03 AM

Yeah, daytripping may be a different animal. If you are on foot, shopping and eating, a different story. That's day tourism, something they want to promote and not discourage.

Paco Facullo - 5-12-2019 at 08:34 AM

I can see it now , the entitled arrogant Gringo gets beaten down by the Foreign Cop as he yells "I HAVE RIGHTS ! I HAVE RIGHTS !

JoeJustJoe - 5-12-2019 at 08:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Paco Facullo

I can see it now , the entitled arrogant Gringo gets beaten down by the Foreign Cop as he yells "I HAVE RIGHTS ! I HAVE RIGHTS !

I read all the time where Gringos, claims they stand up to corrupt Mexican cops looking for a bribe. Why would they do this if they didn't have Constitutional rights to first see a judge and not pay the corrupt Mexican cop on the spot?

Of course, I don't believe all these claims of standing up to the corrupt cops, where if I was keeping score, the corrupt Mexican cops, get nothing about 95% of the time.

What really that probably happens is many of those gringos, pee in their pants, and offer a bribe before the Mexican cop ask for a bribe, because the corrupt cops can't lose all the time.

But again I ask, if you really don't believe you have rights in Mexico, why would you fight a corrupt Mexican cop asking for a bribe?

What's the COUNT ?

MrBillM - 5-12-2019 at 09:23 AM

Over the last decade (and longer) on this forum, how many "blah, blah, blah" threads have been generated and debated regarding the "should/should not" question of following Mexican immigration law ?

Informing (and changing) nothing. Including minds.

Do as you like, enjoy the benefits and accept the consequences without whining.

Personally, I never ignored any law or performed any misdeed that I didn't think Mordida wouldn't solve.

Well .......................... except (for many years) packing a (well-concealed) pistol.

[Edited on 5-12-2019 by MrBillM]

JoeJustJoe - 5-18-2019 at 11:33 AM

Over at "Talk Baja" they have another FMM topic thread going, where Danielle, says her husband walked legally over the border, showed his passport, and was not required to fill out a FMM, which is also my experience about 60 percent when crossing the border by foot.

Of course, you have other members like Alfred, who tells Danielle, that if her husband doesn't get that FMM, he is in the country illegally.

Then you get my favorite myth, that if you don't get a FMM and get into an accident, that the insurance company will not pay and you will go to jail!

You can always find a lot of wrong information on "Baja forums and Facebook group sites.

I also assume that Danielle, is a white American woman, because most Mexican/Latina, women, would not let their husbands cross the border by themselves.
___________
From Talk Baja:

Danielle wrote: Interestingly, my husband walked over the border at San Ysidro yesterday, and unlike the previous two times he walked across the border, he did not have to fill out an FMM this time. There was also a new bridge that wasn't there last time he crossed, about 6 weeks ago.
_____________________
Alfred wrote: if he doesn’t have Temporary or Permanent status he’s in country illegally. Have to find INM to get the FMM form if agents aren’t readily available at the walkway.
_____________
Danielle wrote: no, he entered completely legally, showed his Passport to the officials at the border, coming and going, including the same INM people who required the FMM last time, and did not this time.
___________________
Danielle wrote: I'm well aware of that. And in fact, up until about 6 months ago, he had never had to fill out an FMM when crossing by foot. With this new inspection of cars going South I was simply noting that enforcement is inconsistent, no matter how you cross.
___________
William wrote: Yes, crossing by foot, they will sometimes ask if you're there for more than a day, and have you fill out a FMM. Sometimes they just make you no matter. But, I'm there quite a bit on the daily without filling out an FMM. Not a big deal.
_____________
Jerry wrote: It is all security theater. If you do not have the FMM, exactly nothing is going to happen to you in the VERY unlikely event that you encounter immigration and they ask for it...
______
Jay wrote: I have a friend that is a Cop that works the Wine country. He told me you don't need a FMM in TJ to Ensenada and the Tecate area. I did get one to go to San Ignacio though.
____________
Peter wrote: your friend is wrong, or just arrogant
____________
Jay wrote: What happen to the free zone?
__________
Kirk wrote: you have needed an FMM since jan q1, 20qt5. what will happen is if you get in a car accident without an FMM is your mexican car insurance (if you even have it) will use it as an excuse not to cover you and you'll at least have to pay $$$$ and probably go to jail.

David K - 5-18-2019 at 03:04 PM

Before I add to my current trip report, let me tell you about Mexicali West this past Monday. Walked into the new, large building on the left and used my passport card for a free 7 day FMM. The officer stressed that it must be returned upon exiting Mexico. The 180 day FMM does not need to be returned. This is the same deal for the last 4+ years.

sancho - 5-18-2019 at 05:11 PM

Walked into the new, large building on the left and used my passport card for a free 7 day FMM. The officer stressed that it must be returned upon exiting Mexico

Going to SF in a couple weeks, was a post here a few weeks
back, a guy crossing with a group, Mexicali West, East, can't remember which, was refused 7 day fmm's, had to get the 180,
Imm may have seen a chance for $200+ dlls. who knows,
claimed you have to go internet for the 7 day. Going to take
an internet 7 day as a back up. Haven't crossed Mexicali West
since the new crossing. DK. what blvd. did you use to get
over to Mex Hwy 5 to drive so. toward San Felipe? and did you
come back the Mex West? Thanks for your time

David K - 5-18-2019 at 05:31 PM

Walked into the new, large building on the left and used my passport card for a free 7 day FMM. The officer stressed that it must be returned upon exiting Mexico

Hi Sancho,
There was no question or comment about 180 day vs. 7 day one from the officer. I think it was me who first asked for a 7-day free one of the group that walked into INM for them. Some in the group didn't get one, perhaps because they still had a valid 180-day one?
For the pay one, the officer took the money, as well. The big bank counter was unmanned in the building.

As for the new route to Hwy. 5 from the new border: I was hoping Cameron would use the new route, but at the Tijuana highway access some distance south of the border, he turned left and joined the original route (it joined at the bridge). Maybe he knows the rest of the new route south is confusing and this way is faster? He did have a slick route from Hwy. 98 to the new border that misses all of Calexico!

When I download my photos onto Photobucket.com or PostImages.org (sized to fit Nomad's width of 800 pixels so Doug doesn't have to fix them as he still does for a couple of Nomads who still can't seem to size all of their photos for here), I will show you the photos I took of the intersections Cameron took.

On the way north, we used Mexicali East and I also took photos along that route where we followed Ken and Donna of Bulletproof Diesel, who had an easy way (turn right at the Kenworth) before the RR track traffic circle. I took photos along that route, too!

Bajazly - 5-18-2019 at 07:33 PM

Before I add to my current trip report, let me tell you about Mexicali West this past Monday. Walked into the new, large building on the left and used my passport card for a free 7 day FMM. The officer stressed that it must be returned upon exiting Mexico. The 180 day FMM does not need to be returned. This is the same deal for the last 4+ years.

Go figure. I was there 2 weeks ago, very same building, and my buddy was getting his FMM, I already had one. While the guy was filling out my buddies I asked him, do the 7 day FMM's need to be returned and he kind of shrugged and said, there is not really any way to do that senior...

So David, how did you return yours?

David K - 5-18-2019 at 07:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly

None of us who got the free ones did.
Being a passenger in someone else's vehicle... actually 5 trucks northbound here... it was not an option to go across town, look for a way to get to the southbound border gate, then go back several blocks and get into the line, detouring several miles with everyone in a hurry to get home.

The Mexican INM department has a collection system for them at airports as you board, so they need to have a drop box you can access from the driver's window, northbound... if they really want them back badly enough. When I last got a 180 day FMM, I asked that officer about the returning part of a 7-day one. His responce was you are supposed to but it would be okay not to, as well!

My wife and I returned them at Tecate the one and only time I got them before, just to see how the process worked and post it here on Nomad. Tecate is not too hard to drive to the INM office from inside Mexico... still several blocks out of the way, though.

David K - 5-18-2019 at 08:28 PM

Walked into the new, large building on the left and used my passport card for a free 7 day FMM. The officer stressed that it must be returned upon exiting Mexico

Mexicali West southbound route: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=92781

[Edited on 5-19-2019 by David K]

JoeJustJoe - 6-23-2019 at 09:04 AM

Ron, over at "Talk Baja" is threatening of censorship, and banning members, if they dare to share their experience of visiting Mexico/Baja, without getting a FMM tourist card.

Of course, "Talk Baja" takes themselves too seriously and thinks most of their members turn to the Baja group site, to get all their information about Mexico. You would have to be a retard, to follow the advice of any one member without cross referencing the information with official sites, airlines, and other people that you actually know.

There is also the fact although officially Mexico, says you need both a passport, and FMM, to visit Mexico, even for one day, and US customs, says the same thing, that you need a passport or passcard to visit Mexico, and return to the US through customs.

There is the fact, Mexico has no procedures in place to check all cars coming in through the border to enforce all foreigners get a FMM, so most people coming in for a day trip to Baja, do not bother to get a FMM, and Mexican officials don't seem to care.

On the US side, many people return to the US armed only with their drivers license, and birth certificate, and US Customs, lets them right in without a hassle. When I walk in as a pedestrian and tell them my trip will be brief, more than 60% of the time they hand me back my passport, and let me right in without a FMM.

So I will continue to advise anyone without a passport and who wants to visit Baja that it's still possible to do so with no problems. Not everybody has a passport for various legal or financial reasons.

_________________________
From the heavily censored "Talk Baja"

Tourist Cards (FMM) - Mexican Immigration Law For the last time...

Mexican immigration law has changed a few times in recent years and many frequent travelers to Baja seem to hold some misconceptions about what the current law requires for tourists entering Mexico.

Who needs to obtain n FMM?

EVERY SINGLE TOURIST from the US or Canada who comes into Mexico, be it by land, sea or air AND no matter how long their stay in Mexico, be it for a day or 6 months.
TOURIST CARD (FMM) FACTS:
The FMM is a document issued by Mexico's INM (Instituto Nacional de Migración aka INM)
Casually called a tourist card or tourist "visa" although it is not officially a visa
Issued to U.S., Canadian and other nationalities for vacation purposes
Easily obtained at an INM office at the border or online (online still requires a stop at INM at the border for the official stamp).
Requires a valid passport or passport card
The stamped FMM is valid for land travel throughout Mexico
Cost as of January 2017, $558 Pesos (appx U.S. $28) per person; FREE if the trip is 7 days or less and you cross by land
May be issued for up to 180 days

This group is widely used as an online source for tourists seeking information concerning travel to the Baja California peninsula.

For that reason, any posts or comments recommending that people should just skirt Mexican immigration law and avoid obtaining the legally required FMM Tourist Card will be deleted.

Repeat offenders will be removed from the group.

Thanks...

[Edited on 6-23-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

David K - 6-23-2019 at 09:50 AM

Sounds correct from Talk Baja.
Because they do not check every vehicle entering Mexico does not mean it is okay to not do what the Mexican government asks.
It is an honor system to obey the immigration laws for tourists so that we don't have a 5-hour border line to get into Mexico.

You can drive without a drivers license too, but does that mean it is ok? Only until you are caught.

[Edited on 6-23-2019 by David K]

JoeJustJoe - 6-23-2019 at 10:11 AM

Sounds correct from Talk Baja.
Because they do not check every vehicle entering Mexico does not mean it is okay to not do what the Mexican government asks.
It is an honor system to obey the immigration laws for tourists so that we don't have a 5-hour border line to get into Mexico.

You can drive without a drivers license too, but does that mean it is ok? Only until you are caught.

[Edited on 6-23-2019 by David K]

If I was to guess, I would agree with you David K. about the honor system.

I suspect Mexico, doesn't want everybody stopping to get a FMM or the lines would be five hours long, when the majority of travelers, are probably traveling withing 100 miles of the border, picking up prescription drugs, or doing tourists things. My favorite story to tell the Mexican officials, is I'm only going to pick up prescription drugs, and come right back, and they usually just hand me back my passport, and let me through without the FMM. Other times, they waive everybody through without checking anybody.

So I think it's funny how some of you jump up and down and say, it's the LAW it's the LAW, when on the Mexican side they are at times waving everybody through without even talking to them when you enter Baja as a pedestrian.

David K. speaking of "Talk Baja" censorship, why did they ban you? I have never seen you attack or troll anybody here on "Baja Nomad, and although I don't agree with you much of the time, but I'm at a lost on why they would ban you?

[Edited on 6-23-2019 by JoeJustJoe]

solosancarlos - 6-23-2019 at 11:05 AM

The great Bajagringo used to grace us with his infinite knowledge of Baja Mexico here years ago.

Does anyone recall the time he decided he was going to tell the Mexicans partying in the lot next to his (in SQ) to keep it down ?

And it is Hurricane season again. I really don't know what we would do without his accurate (lol) forecasting of storms impacting Baja.

David K - 6-23-2019 at 06:20 PM

Joe, it was mostly personal politics I think? I consider Ron a friend and he was a great host to my Baja Extreme Tour in 2016, even bought me a surprise birthday cake.

He has been very busy with his aquaculture business so he has others moderating Talk Baja. When I was trying to learn ways to make Facebook more user-friendly for people seeking Baja information and past postings, I apparently asked too many questions on Talk Baja on how to make Facebook easier to navigate and they thought I was being critical of Talk Baja... Hardly! I am just a detail-holic and try anything to help people discover Baja, on the Internet.

I have a ton of info posted there at one time and on Ron's previous forum, which he eliminated. In any case, Ron is dependent on his moderator doing the forum operations when he is too busy, and naturally sided with him. I am not sure if I am banned, I think not because I have gone there and can respond? I just don't anymore.
I have tried to contact Ron to make things whole again, but he has not replied... Too much drama for either of us, probably?

In any case, I have since created a Facebook page to highlight the missions and Baja travel (to see the missions) since then and while I thing Facebook is a very poor format to find information, it is very easy to use, add photos to, and everyone seems to be on it, especially in Baja! https://www.facebook.com/groups/bajamissions/

mtgoat666 - 6-23-2019 at 07:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Said Ron: “any posts or comments recommending that people should just skirt Mexican immigration law and avoid obtaining the legally required FMM Tourist Card will be deleted.

Repeat offenders will be removed from the group.”

Ridiculous! What a tool!
If Mexico does not enforce, I think it is ok for someone to tell another (recommend) that they can enter Mexico w/o an FMM.
Pretty soon Ron will be telling everyone they must prefer coke over Pepsi or be banned!

Bajazly - 6-23-2019 at 07:10 PM

Just one more reason Face F#&k blows!

solosancarlos - 6-24-2019 at 05:31 AM

Joe, it was mostly personal politics I think? I consider Ron a friend and he was a great host to my Baja Extreme Tour in 2016, even bought me a surprise birthday cake.

He has been very busy with his aquaculture business so he has others moderating Talk Baja. When I was trying to learn ways to make Facebook more user-friendly for people seeking Baja information and past postings, I apparently asked too many questions on Talk Baja on how to make Facebook easier to navigate and they thought I was being critical of Talk Baja... Hardly! I am just a detail-holic and try anything to help people discover Baja, on the Internet.

I have a ton of info posted there at one time and on Ron's previous forum, which he eliminated. In any case, Ron is dependent on his moderator doing the forum operations when he is too busy, and naturally sided with him. I am not sure if I am banned, I think not because I have gone there and can respond? I just don't anymore.
I have tried to contact Ron to make things whole again, but he has not replied... Too much drama for either of us, probably?

In any case, I have since created a Facebook page to highlight the missions and Baja travel (to see the missions) since then and while I thing Facebook is a very poor format to find information, it is very easy to use, add photos to, and everyone seems to be on it, especially in Baja! https://www.facebook.com/groups/bajamissions/

What a laugh that is.

You really are away with the fairies

David K - 6-24-2019 at 07:28 AM

I was replying to Joe, and that is what I experienced. It is all in the past. Moving on now.

JoeJustJoe - 6-24-2019 at 08:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by solosancarlos

The great Bajagringo used to grace us with his infinite knowledge of Baja Mexico here years ago.

Does anyone recall the time he decided he was going to tell the Mexicans partying in the lot next to his (in SQ) to keep it down ?

And it is Hurricane season again. I really don't know what we would do without his accurate (lol) forecasting of storms impacting Baja.

I don't think it was partying next door, but I'm not going there.

I do want to comment on the weather forecasts at "TB." I think the strong hurricane, put "TB" on on the map, because a lot of people started to follow the site when they were reporting about the hurricane, but that was years ago.

TB continues to provide weather reports, which in my opinion is silly, since most days are sunny, clear, and warm or hot, depending on the month of the year they are reporting. There just are not a lot of surprises with the weather in Baja from month to month, and when it rains it's a welcomed relief.

Again, they just take themselves too seriously, and even if a hurricane comes, there will be many places to get the hurricane information, and usually with hurricanes you get advance notice to get out of town.

solosancarlos - 6-24-2019 at 11:19 AM

I am being harsh but that's my diminishing patience with people from these sites concerning Baja.

RG provided his first glimpses of his potential idiocy to me years ago when Mike Y needed help with his Burro. If anyone ever wants to know what really happened that week feel free to contact me. I was there and only a couple of other people were, too. The week before he had trouble was my first introduction to Baja Nomads. The info provided by many here was instrumental in locating Mike in such short time. It was you folks here that were the heroes, the rest of us just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time.

Alas,RG proved to be a real wank after the fact so hearing of his time in Hospital after his unsuccessful efforts at negotiations up in SQ was not a surprise

As far as Dave well, I should have realized he has to play his hand the way he does. It is politics after all.

Concerning the weather in Baja (and those who have christened themselves meteorologists for the region) the fact remains at this:

We ALL get our weather info from (or at least have some access to) professional National Government departments. space agencies and science & research centers. Businesses or individuals who pay for more advanced access get more info, this we all know. When RG or bobby I-am-now-an-online-weatherman starts telling us "whats going to happen" and critiquing people for not knowing what they know it becomes rather pathetic. We have a retired engineer down here (who contributes to a payfor weather site0 get his head stuck so far up his precious models that he forgets to even stick his head out the window or recognize local weather trends and cycles. He will be so far off in his forecasts for the daily winds here that you almost want to feel sad for him.

Another one who has his own website down here was claiming it was blowing over 100mph when we had a brush by Hurricane Lidia in 2017. It maybe blew 60 - 80, that's it (but holy crapola did it rain). That clown is our local Mr Dengue Fever - Chicken Little. Whether it is his mosquito breeding center (all for research of course) or his complete blathering about all things irrelevant one can only wish that someday his keyboard fails him for at least a week.

So, big deal mr online weatherboy, you just ran the Windy.com model and it shows a storm potential forming next week. From Seattle, Sacramento, San Diego, San Quintin, or Sand-your-Dolphin you are going to now sound the bugle and tell us all to prepare for evacuation ?

Observe the posts & posters this summer here. Every year it gets worse and worse.

It resembles this selfie culture we now live in today. As if people spend their entire days contriving ways to feel like they are a part of this narrative called life.

Get your tourist card or don't get your tourist card. It is your choice after all.

What was the point of this post again ?

David K - 6-24-2019 at 11:36 AM

Solo, are you Kevin?
I was happy to provide the satellite location of Mike and Don Kay as they walked to Cabo. When his distress message was transmitted and I posted, you guys at Solosports and Baja Gringo really were great offering assistance. The thanks also go to Doug ('BajaNomad') for having this forum so we could all help.
How Mike and his burro were rescued was going to be revealed in his book. Alas, the publisher vanished with the manuscript before it ever got printed. Mike is living the Baja dream in Loreto. We traveled one day together in 2017 during my Baja Bound research trips.

solosancarlos - 6-24-2019 at 12:29 PM

Nope, not Kevin
worked with them and was posted there when the Mike debacle occurred
your info was crucial to quickly zeroing in on him. he was also smart. He had put his bright orange vest on and was on the beach hoping to flag down a panga going by

hard to believe it was almost 9 years ago now

JoeJustJoe - 6-24-2019 at 04:43 PM

Here is some replies in that "Talk Baja" thread about the FMM, and warning members to not deviate from the company line, that everybody needs a FMM anytime they cross the border, no exceptions, despite the fact many foreigners fly right through with their car border without stopping and getting the FMM.

You have the usual comments, for example, Matt wants to know what happens in you visit Baja without a FMM, and Samuel jumps down his throat, and tells him it's the LAW! And then Samuel transfers his xenophobia beliefs onto the Mexican people, and says it's disrespectful to visit Mexico, without a FMM, although he presents no evidence Mexicans even care how Americans visit Mexico.

Ron, gives a tear jerking story how this one person was in San Juanico, without a FMM, when he heard his father had a heart attack. Ron, claims he tried to fly back to the states, but was turned away at the airport, because he couldn't prove when he entered Baja. Sadly, his father died, by the time he made it back by bus.

Hey, he should have asked me, I would have told him to take the airplane from southern Baja, to Tijuana, and then walked over the border, and he would have been able to see his father.

Darmaris, repeats the common myth, that he if you don't have a FMM, and get into an accident the Mexican insurance company will not pay the claim, and Darmaris, says it's in the fine print.

When somebody asks Darmaris, to show him the fine prints, Ralph, I think one of the goon moderators, jumps in and says, " doesn't matter, and you should always follow the law. No Ralph, lets see the policy where it actually says that.
_____________________
From Talk Baja" some of the same comments we often see on 'Baja Nomad too.

Matt wrote: I'm not arguing to NOT get it... I'm just asking for actual examples of what happens if you don't have one... so far, it seems like "nothing" except them saying you need to go get one, LOL.
________________

Samuel wrote: here it goes again,' why do i need one, never asked for one", because is the law, and for mexicans is totally disrespectful that there is only a goose on this approach, and also the the " USA is full of illegals" will pop out eventually ( it is hard to understand this posture from "first world " citizens", do as you please, just don't complaint if by disobeying the law you get into a very unpleasant experience. ( AND GET KICKED OUT OF THE GROUP IN THE PROCESS, FOR PROMOTING ENTITLEMENTS) OUT.
_____________________
Matt wrote: Samuel Garcia Barraza All I did was open a dialogue as to what happens if you "don't" get one... so...
_______________________
Ron wrote: know somebody who rode along with friends down to surf at San Juanico without an FMM and after his first day in the waves learned his dad had a massive heart attack and caught a ride to Loreto to catch a flight back. He was turned away as he had no legal proof of entry and had to catch a bus back to the border and fly out of San Diego. He arrived hours after his dad had passed,
_______________________
Rudy wrote: What about posts encouraging skirting vehicle licensing and digital piracy laws?
__________________
Darmaris wrote: If you have Mexican insurance and NO FMM and you are in an accident, it voids your insurance coverage. It’s in the fine print of the policy. It’s a must to have the FMM, you are visiting their country and it’s their LAW.
____________________
Bill wrote: Darmaris can you post the term that says this?
__________________________
Ralph wrote: Doesn't matter. You should follow the law no matter what.
__________________
Ron wrote: Yes, most policies do have the restriction and yes, it has not been enforced much but like all things down here and especially in these times of heightened awareness as to immigration issues (as per bus thread), I wouldn't want to bet on it continuing that way...

norte - 6-24-2019 at 07:55 PM

WOW. Then I guess you all have no problem with central/south Americans and Mexicans coming into the USA without a permit or Visa.

David K - 6-25-2019 at 07:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

WOW. Then I guess you all have no problem with central/south Americans and Mexicans coming into the USA without a permit or Visa.

If they cross in legally the same way we cross south into Mexico, then no. Of course, we check every person coming in to be sure they have documentation. Mexico does not. They could if they wanted to.

If they break through the border anywhere they choose, to avoid the law, then it is a problem, as it would be for Mexico if they didn't want law-breakers.

Mexico wants as many Americans to come south as possible so they do not create a traffic jam going south. Having the FMM is a technicality and the right thing to do but in many if not all cases, it is just extra paperwork and serves no purpose other than to feed the bureaucracy. Many times at the border, officers tell Americans they don't need one if just going for the day or staying in Baja Norte a short time. They really seem to hate doing the free 7-day one... no money, so it is a cost and a waste to them. Because it is so difficult to get back to the INM office when returning to the U.S., they encourage getting the pay 180 day one as it does not need to be returned... Just another income source since it is not being used to track the time we are in Mexico.

norte - 6-25-2019 at 08:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

WOW. Then I guess you all have no problem with central/south Americans and Mexicans coming into the USA without a permit or Visa.

Another hypocrite adocating breaking the law. Just like in the USA, when in Mexico without proper paper work, regardless of where you cross, it is against the law.

Would it be OK for Mexicans to cross the border North without paperwork because it is a hassle? And all they are doing is feeding an ever larger bureaucracy? After all...it is just a technicality.

David K - 6-25-2019 at 09:10 AM

Oh, not at all... just stating the way it is, or has been. Try to see the world as it really is and not a land of rainbows and unicorns and open borders to all.

norte - 6-25-2019 at 09:36 AM