BajaNomad - Getting Lost in the Back Country

Getting Lost in the Back Country

Fatboy - 4-16-2019 at 04:30 PM

While the idea might sounds appealing to most of us from time to time I am talking about life threatening situations that people find themselves in.

It seems every couple of months there will be a post on BN about a missing person and the most recent one about Kat seems very disturbing and I hope it turns out well.

There are also posts about what to carry while out and about in the back country such as Three2Tango's post "What is in your Baja bag?".

What I wonder about is how does it happen?

For the people that are found too late we really never truly know what went wrong.

For those that are found safe and sound it seems like there is not a lot of study as to the question 'How did this happen?".

Here are some true life stories....

GPS Joe was well known in the Arizona Hiking community for his GPS Tracks.

He was in an area he had hiked before, he had a gps unit with him and yet he went missing back 2010 and he has not been found.

The area he was in is pretty rugged and he was most certainly off the trail. Further more he did not notify anyone that he was going.

This link will take you to a 53 page post on Hike Arizona documenting the search for Joe.

GPS Joe - Joe Domin

This story is a little different, Carl McCunn, was flown out to a remote Alaska lake with lots of supplies and firearms. Nine months later he committed suicide there instead of starving to death.

What is different here is that several parties knew exactly where he was, the Bush Pilot that dropped him off there. An Alaska State trooper that flow over his campsite several times a few months before his death, and he also sent maps marked with his campsite to his father and two friends prior to his trip.

Here is the Wikipedia page about and it is also mentioned in the book Into the Wild.
Carl McCunn

Another story starts out as two women, Kim Beverly and Carole Wetherton, go out for a day hike in September of 2003 and nine months later their remains are found in the Uinta Mountains in NE Utah.

Here is a great post about it on Backcountry Post.

Lost day hikers

Personally I go out in the back country and do many of these things that led to these people dying.

Have I just been lucky, is my time coming to be a post or news article somewhere?

Or, as others want you to believe, that as long as I have the right stuff in a bag I will be OK?

Or if I tell reliable people exactly where I am going and my latest day back the cavalry will come rushing in? Does that mean no deviating from the original plan also, which I do?

Or does your mind led you astray and there is not much you can do about it?
Hopefully you will not be alone and in a dangerous environment when it does happen?

Or does familiarity breeds contempt? Does the fact I have gone out and done this things and have made it back alive many times that I no longer have the proper respect for the dangers?

Brings me back to the current search for Kat, that seems like such an unlikely scenario for someone to be missing in for several days with lots of people looking for you.

How about you, have you every been lost to the point of needing rescuing?

[Edited on 4-16-2019 by Fatboy]

bajabuddha - 4-16-2019 at 04:48 PM

Having done search and rescue, there's a key saying that means everything;

When a person gets lost, they get 'lost-er'.

I hope with the Kat thing there isn't foul play involved, but all options are on the table at this point.

defrag4 - 4-16-2019 at 07:28 PM

I've been incredibly lost only a few hundreds meters from a trail deep in the Sierra Nevadas, CA. After a few hours panic sets in and you start doing dumb things.

Luckily we knew enough to stay put and not start wandering too far, within a few hours another set of backpackers came down the trail and we could see them through the trees.

Was ridiculous how close we were to the trail yet still completely oblivious.

I started carrying a GPS with topo maps after that.

[Edited on 4-17-2019 by defrag4]

advrider - 4-16-2019 at 07:52 PM

I posted about ridding out to explore the area Kat is lost in last month myself. After ridding out 50 miles and seeing that I had another 25 miles ride before I started to hike, I turned around. My friend knew the name of where I was going but none of us had been there.
I've been a little lost in the sierras a couple of time's and it makes you realize how big some areas are. I found some lost hunters in Oregon one time. They went off of a hill thinking that they would run into the road they parked on, but it dead ended around the corner from where they parked. They had been lost for 10-12 hours in the rain and several hours in the dark, down to just a few rounds from shooting for help. Tired hungry and happy to see me.

PaulW - 4-16-2019 at 08:13 PM

Back in the day as a solo hiker I explored the Rockies backcountry with no electronic devices. Sure there were really scary times. I survived because I did my homework and learned how to navigate with a real paper map and learned how to use dead reckoning to find my way. I carried a 1:100000 topo, a compass, note paper and pencil.
My last lost episode many years ago was exactly where Kat was last seen.
Fast forward as you all have already read I have my SPOT and my Inreach and my small gps and all that previous training has been forgotten. I can get back to my truck in untracked Baja desert on a moonless night with my goodies. Lost is not part of my life any more.

bajabuddha - 4-16-2019 at 08:27 PM

I was raised hunting and fishing in the back country of Utah. I'd trudge behind Pappy for miles, up and down the hills, and we'd get to where the turn-around point was and Pappy would say, "Dave, which way to the car?" then it was my 'job' to get us back to the road.

This said to future or current parents to teach a sense of direction. I carried that lesson into adultery (oops, adult-HOOD) and can say it's saved my butt and a few others many times through the years. Been somewhat lost or disoriented a few times, but it's always been ingrained in the DNA of life to keep directions and headers in current flow.

Mulege Canuck - 4-16-2019 at 08:28 PM

I work as a forest engineer. I locate logging roads for a living. I always carry a compass and a map. When GPS came out in a hand held version, I did not bother but now I am hooked.

Still I always bring a compass and a map. Your compass never lies but sometimes it is hard to believe it when you get disoriented.

pacificobob - 4-17-2019 at 07:48 AM

i also grew up hiking, hunting remote areas, followed by 30 years in Alaska's outdoors. one thing that continues to amaze me is the reluctance of people the take things along that might be useful. such as a realistic amount of water and a bit of food, or a sleeping bag. i hear comments like " but we have beer!" or,"i don't want the extra weight of a couple of cans of sardines."
i get being an optimist, i feel i am one....at times that can be a real liability.

wilderone - 4-17-2019 at 08:39 AM

I was in El Fuerte and wanted to hike to a spot reportedly with pictographs and an indigenous habitation site. I had a quart of water and a hand-drawn map. There was a small village nearby; it was about 98 degrees; I expected to be back to rejoin my friends in about an hour. What could go wrong. I took the boat ferry across the river, and started walking on a trail according to my directions. I did not expect there to be so many criss-crossing trails. I came into the small village - not the right trail. Wanted to check the map again - it's not in my pocket. Hmm. What now? I tried to recall the map directions, and started in a different direction on a different trail. I thought it was different, but I walked in a circle and found my map on the trail! I was almost out of water at this point, but I felt I was close to the site. Confident I was on the right trail, I continued on - stepping into small spheres of shadow from boulders and bushes, and taking only a sip of water en route - so hot. I finally found the site - it was interesting and glad I finally found it. I now had about 4 oz of water, and felt very exposed and weak whenever I was outside any shade or exerting energy. At times, I knew I experiencing symptoms of hyperthermia, with my heart pounding and seeing black flashes. Walking from one shaded spot to the next, letting my heart rate calm, I made my way back to the boat crossing. This all took place within one hour. Lesson learned: I should have taken 3 quarts of water for a one-hour hike in 98 degree heat, and the time period from "normal" to "urgent" was about 1/2 hour. I believe that had I not returned and a rescue party had to come looking for me, it would have been too late.

thebajarunner - 4-17-2019 at 08:45 AM

Maps and GPS and sat phones are fine
But the one thing I always stress to carry on a wilderness hike....
Matches/ or a good lighter

Start a big fire.
You may burn down a few acres but the smoke is the best beacon of all.

pacificobob - 4-17-2019 at 09:30 AM

a friend in montana went on a local hike, sola. fell broke both ankles, it took 3 days to crawl out. she had a tough go of it. bones never did heal correctly. she had little to no gear with her.

blackwolfmt - 4-17-2019 at 11:28 AM

BAD ADVICE!!! maybe start a little signal fire but NOT a big fire :fire:

Surprised to hear a cali resident say that

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Maps and GPS and sat phones are fine
But the one thing I always stress to carry on a wilderness hike....
Matches/ or a good lighter

Start a big fire.
You may burn down a few acres but the smoke is the best beacon of all.

del mar - 4-17-2019 at 12:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt

BAD ADVICE!!! maybe start a little signal fire but NOT a big fire :fire:

Surprised to hear a cali resident say that

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

Kat the missing san felipe lady, a smoker certainly would have had a lighter.....a signal fire sure would have helped.

mtgoat666 - 4-17-2019 at 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

The 2003 Cedar fire was caused by a signal fire from a lost hunter. Your signal fire may burn more than a few acres! It may burn up half a county!

[Edited on 4-17-2019 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 4-17-2019 at 02:15 PM

I always carry the 10 essentials, ala Mountaineers. Or a close variant of 10 essentials.
For a short hike i wing it, usually minimalist.

Do I want to die in the wilderness or make a fire??

thebajarunner - 4-17-2019 at 03:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

The 2003 Cedar fire was caused by a signal fire from a lost hunter. Your signal fire may burn more than a few acres! It may burn up half a county!

[Edited on 4-17-2019 by mtgoat666]

Let's see.... give me some time to think about that question.
OK, TIme's up, Gonna start the biggestass fire ever if it saves me.

John Harper - 4-17-2019 at 03:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

The 2003 Cedar fire was caused by a signal fire from a lost hunter. Your signal fire may burn more than a few acres! It may burn up half a county!

Yes, my friend's beautiful hand built house burned down in that fire. I remember that idiot so called "hunter" who started it. He got off pretty light for all the tragedy he caused so many families. Frickin' marooon.

John

Marc - 4-18-2019 at 08:05 AM

Years ago (1980) a couple of buds and I left my house at Tahoe for a 10 mile run. We ran the trails up to the summit of Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley then bushwhacked down into the Ward Valley and became totally lost in the trees. Turned out to be a 25+ mile run by the time we found a road. The gals were ready to call in the Rangers. The fun part...that road was 1/4 mile from my house.

[Edited on 4-18-2019 by Marc]

Alpine Meadows to Ward Creek?

AKgringo - 4-18-2019 at 09:22 AM

No kidding, I did that trek in the mid 70's, but on skis! I lived in Ward Valley at the time, so a friend and I decided to get a couple of spring runs on the backside of Alpine Meadows, then ski down to the road in the valley.

The plan went to hell as soon as we got into the trees! We were on downhill gear, not cross country stuff. The snow was too rotten to walk in boots, and too flat to do much more that shuffle for an eternity!

Good thing we started early in the day, or we may have had people searching for us the next morning.

Marc - 4-18-2019 at 05:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

No kidding, I did that trek in the mid 70's, but on skis! I lived in Ward Valley at the time, so a friend and I decided to get a couple of spring runs on the backside of Alpine Meadows, then ski down to the road in the valley.

The plan went to hell as soon as we got into the trees! We were on downhill gear, not cross country stuff. The snow was too rotten to walk in boots, and too flat to do much more that shuffle for an eternity!

Good thing we started early in the day, or we may have had people searching for us the next morning.

My house was on Gstaad not far from the Sherwood Lift. Many memories there. I used to leave the 2nd floor master bedroom window unlatched so I could get into the house after a heavy snowfall. The guy who built the house for me is now my neighbor in Palm Desert.
If you lived in the Ward Valley you must remember Brent Bradley the snow-plow guy.

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 07:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by defrag4

I've been incredibly lost only a few hundreds meters from a trail deep in the Sierra Nevadas, CA. After a few hours panic sets in and you start doing dumb things.

Luckily we knew enough to stay put and not start wandering too far, within a few hours another set of backpackers came down the trail and we could see them through the trees.

Was ridiculous how close we were to the trail yet still completely oblivious.

I started carrying a GPS with topo maps after that.

[Edited on 4-17-2019 by defrag4]

Good to hear it turned out well.... so looking back on it now, what would you say happened?

You probably left the trail confident you would be able to get back on it right? Did your mind "trick" you into doubting yourself, or where you going the wrong way when you decided to stop?

I know how hard it can be to find of trail in the forest at times.

What would you do differently today?

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 07:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider

I posted about ridding out to explore the area Kat is lost in last month myself. After ridding out 50 miles and seeing that I had another 25 miles ride before I started to hike, I turned around. My friend knew the name of where I was going but none of us had been there.
I've been a little lost in the sierras a couple of time's and it makes you realize how big some areas are. I found some lost hunters in Oregon one time. They went off of a hill thinking that they would run into the road they parked on, but it dead ended around the corner from where they parked. They had been lost for 10-12 hours in the rain and several hours in the dark, down to just a few rounds from shooting for help. Tired hungry and happy to see me.

Yes I read about that on the thread about Kat, do some SAR incidents never occur because a person(s) turn around before trouble?

Those hunters, did you hear them fire off any rounds before you found them? I was wondering - were they firing off in groups of 3 shots?

I hear people shooting around here all the time, have never even considered that they might be signaling for help.

I wonder if I heard 3 or 4 groups of 3 tightly spaced shots with a decent gap between the groups would it make me realize it is a signal?

advrider - 4-18-2019 at 07:45 PM

They fired in groups of two shots, I didn't hear them until I had driven many miles from where they had started from. I drove down into a canyon about 20 miles from where they parked.
As it neared dark the guy riding in the back of the truck started hearing shots and we stopped and fired two shots back, they again answered and we kept going until we found them. I've never had guys I didn't know kiss me, LOL they were worn out, cold and tired..

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Back in the day as a solo hiker I explored the Rockies backcountry with no electronic devices. Sure there were really scary times. I survived... I can get back to my truck in untracked Baja desert on a moonless night with my goodies. Lost is not part of my life any more.

See, that is what has me wondering, and not meant as an offense to you, but if you read about GPS Joe, he probably thought the same thing.

But he didn't and he died out there. Why?

Because he thought like you do?
Because he had a heart attack?
Because he slipped and fell?
Because aliens beamed him up to their spaceship?

Then there are countless people that for some reason are 100% sure that their GPS is acting up and giving them bad intel.

Then I there is always the slim possibility that something could happen to the SAT's circling high above us, then what?

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

I was raised hunting and fishing in the back country of Utah. I'd trudge behind Pappy for miles, up and down the hills, and we'd get to where the turn-around point was and Pappy would say, "Dave, which way to the car?" then it was my 'job' to get us back to the road.

This said to future or current parents to teach a sense of direction. I carried that lesson into adultery (oops, adult-HOOD) and can say it's saved my butt and a few others many times through the years. Been somewhat lost or disoriented a few times, but it's always been ingrained in the DNA of life to keep directions and headers in current flow.

That is what I wonder about as I reach my mid-fifties and have always been fairly good about directions in the back country, is this just going to fail me some day and leave me wandering aimlessly in the woods?

Too many cases of people (I know, some have no sense of direction, but others do) getting lost.

Heck, to give you an idea a what a messed up kind of mind we have, there is and old folks home somewhere, I think Sweden or some other Nordic country that set a trap out front to catch the odd 'escapee'.

You know what the trap is that catches the people with dementia and alzheimer that make it out front is?

A fake bus stop! That almost always stop there to wait for the bus!

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mulege Canuck

I work as a forest engineer. I locate logging roads for a living.

I always carry a compass ...
Your compass never lies BUT SOMETIMES IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE it when you get disoriented.

Exactly! (I capitalized his qoute)

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner

As you can see by the other responses, I am not going to touch this except to say.... Remember that scene in On Any Sunday?

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

i also grew up hiking, hunting remote areas, followed by 30 years in Alaska's outdoors. one thing that continues to amaze me is the reluctance of people the take things along that might be useful. such as a realistic amount of water and a bit of food, or a sleeping bag. i hear comments like " but we have beer!" or,"i don't want the extra weight of a couple of cans of sardines."
i get being an optimist, i feel i am one....at times that can be a real liability.

But isn't that the question, when is enough, well....ENOUGH?

But it seems to be true that most folks that do survive being lost for several days are the ones prepared to spend the night... mainly shelter and something warm to hunker down in.

You can live a long time without food and even awhile without water if conditions are right.

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

a friend in montana went on a local hike, sola. fell broke both ankles, it took 3 days to crawl out. she had a tough go of it. bones never did heal correctly. she had little to no gear with her.

All I can say here is WOW! That is one tough person!

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

I was in El Fuerte and wanted to hike to a spot reportedly with pictographs and an indigenous habitation site. I had a quart of water ..... I should have taken 3 quarts of water for a one-hour hike in 98 degree heat, and the time period from "normal" to "urgent" was about 1/2 hour. I believe that had I not returned and a rescue party had to come looking for me, it would have been too late.

Goes to what PacificoBob said and stats seem to bear you out, many more 'day' hikers require SAR.

So perhaps the real dangers lies, not in the 7 day back country trip, but in the 2 hour stroll down the trail to the creek, or overlook or whatever.

Fatboy - 4-18-2019 at 08:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider

They fired in groups of two shots, I didn't hear them until I had driven many miles from where they had started from. I drove down into a canyon about 20 miles from where they parked.
As it neared dark the guy riding in the back of the truck started hearing shots and we stopped and fired two shots back, they again answered and we kept going until we found them. I've never had guys I didn't know kiss me, LOL they were worn out, cold and tired..

So you figured someone need help based on the 2 shots? Or was the guy in the back one of them?

advrider - 4-19-2019 at 07:42 AM

No, we ran into the other part of the group that had been looking for them as we got back to our truck. We had talked to one of the party that had gone back up the trail as we came down, so we knew they were way over do. They had set out in the morning for a few hours of hunting and should have been at the parking area, it was now near dark and starting to snow.
I didn't think to put someone in the back of the truck but one of the guys in our gruop volunteered to ride in the back and keep a lookout as we drove down the Forest service road back to the highway, he heard the first shots way off and told us to pull over and listen. All workedout good in the end.