BajaNomad - More Lost in Translation

More Lost in Translation

pauldavidmena - 7-4-2019 at 07:44 AM

I still subscribe to "Spanish Word of the Day" from Transparent Language despite the fact that it is Castilian-centric, in part because it's entertaining and educational for me to see the various ways an idiomatic expression might be translated depending upon which Spanish-speaking country it originates from.

Today's expression was "la noche toledana", which the website translated "sleepless night". The example given was "Anoche pasé una noche toledana" translated "Last night I had a sleepless night". Plugging the same expression into Google Translate, however, yielded "Last night I spent a night in Toledo." I appreciated the good chuckle, but then thought "Wouldn't it be easier to just say 'Anoche no pude dormir'?"

:?:

SFandH - 7-4-2019 at 08:02 AM

Curious that it's difficult to sleep in Toledo. What about Cleveland?

I looked it up:

http://www.teguiamosentoledo.com/agenda/sabias-de-donde-vien...

pauldavidmena - 7-4-2019 at 09:58 AM

What a great find. It also explains why this expression would be more common in Spain than in Latin America.

As a side note, "Sleepless in Toledo" has a certain ring to it...

David K - 7-4-2019 at 01:26 PM

Maybe they could make it a movie about Internet dating in Spain? :lol:

pauldavidmena - 7-5-2019 at 05:45 AM

This video comes to mind: https://youtu.be/4LjDe4sLER0

pacificobob - 7-6-2019 at 09:36 AM

It never fails to amaze me how many gringo long time residents/frequent visitors have about 25 words of Spanish and couldn't correctly use a verb in a sentence with a gun to their heads.
Is it laziness, lack of academic discipline, or just a lack of aptitude?

pauldavidmena - 7-7-2019 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

It never fails to amaze me how many gringo long time residents/frequent visitors have about 25 words of Spanish and couldn't correctly use a verb in a sentence with a gun to their heads.
Is it laziness, lack of academic discipline, or just a lack of aptitude?

I would chalk it up to a lack of motivation. My wife doesn't speak Spanish (beyond food words) mostly because we tend to visit ex-pat locations with plenty of English speakers, beyond which she can rely on me as translator. I'd rate my comprehension at the intermediate level, and my conversational skills somewhat below that. The latter requires repetition and reinforcement, and I'm just not around the language enough to get over the tope, so to speak.

Lee - 7-7-2019 at 10:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

I use to stay at a B&B off the La Paz malecon while studying Spanish at Se Habla - La Paz. The gringa who owned the place couldn't speak Spanish. I offered to pay for classes and after some thought, said she didn't have time.

I know a couple verb tenses, can speak and pronounce words correctly, and when out of MX, forget many words. Difficulty hearing means even if someone is speaking slowly and basic Spanish, I'll not catch every word. I work at reading lips speaking Spanish/English.

Living in a gringo enclave where no one speaks Spanish limits how much I'm exposed to the language. The people I socialize with speak English and Mexicans don't live in my area of Pescadero.

I'm indifferent to learning more. I"ve studied in private and group classes, have a small Spanish/English dictionary I carry, an assortment of books I have around, Rosetta Stone on my laptop and iPhone, etc. I've studied with a Berlitz instructor in Todos.

I think knowing conjugation and pronunciation should be basic tools even for those with limited vocabulary. Though Mexicans know what a gringo means when they say trabajo when they mean trabaja.

David K - 7-7-2019 at 11:16 AM

I think a lot of people are afraid to try or are embarrassed to try and speak Spanish?

I am sure I am butchering a few words or verb congregations, but I think they appreciate that I try. I think one should just jump into the language and go for it. The people of Baja are very kind and will help you... I have never seen any arrogance on their part with my speaking Spanish a bit poorly. It's Baja... not France!

I took Spanish in school almost every year plus going to Baja since I was 7 and here in California, working with Spanish speakers daily, all help me speak it 'fairly well' as far as getting by. I would like to know more and understand more, still.

surfhat - 7-7-2019 at 01:07 PM

Since my recommendation for everyone to watch the documentary 'Ice on Fire' was so well received, [ I jest] here is another one to consider.

'The Human Element' produced by Nat. Geo. photographer James Balog.

I will continue to offer insights to all, in the hope some my learn something.

Sorry to be off topic, but I looked for a new topic option to post this on and could not find it.

On a completely different topic, ABC yesterday showed the Baja 500.

What a thrill! Those guys are to be congratulated on their endurance.

11 hours in the seat. 14 hours on the bikes and quads. No breaks, no second drivers, unless I missed it.

You guys deserve so much credit for putting your bodies through that long drive.

My very limited time on a sand rail on the East Cape road with a longtime local, and in the Pescadero farmland in a souped up pickup truck had me uncontrollably screaming in joy for the few minutes I had.

Hours on end would be a whole new game. These guys are as tough as they come. Kidney belts must work.

It was a thrilling hour to see those suspensions taking the bumps while the vehicles barely moved. The cams inside those cabs looked brutal, not to mention all that silt that engulfed every vehicle that passed by.

Finally, some of the spectators at times come off as not having all their wits in evidence. Who can get the closest to the screaming vehicles as they pass by without becoming a casualty? I suppose machismo must be a factor. They could almost hold a flag up like bullfighters taunting the beast to charge at them.

No wonder that once in a while someone is taken out by such bravado, if it can be called that.

Kudos to all of those drivers from trophy trucks to VW's to moto's to quads for a great show. You guys are as tough as they come.

del mar - 7-7-2019 at 01:33 PM

missed it........REDBUD was on! :yes:

pauldavidmena - 7-7-2019 at 02:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat

Since my recommendation for everyone to watch the documentary 'Ice on Fire' was so well received, [ I jest] here is another one to consider.
.
.
.
Sorry to be off topic, but I looked for a new topic option to post this on and could not find it.

pacificobob - 7-7-2019 at 04:58 PM

I have a hunch folks who have little to no Spanish often pay more for services and goods.
It's choice to learn it or not.

bajabuddha - 7-7-2019 at 09:36 PM

One thing I've noticed over my Baja years is at least trying to learn the language of your native hosts garners a modicum of respect. My Spanish was far less than fluent, and as one dear old friend (Pablo Fuerte, El Jefe de Playa La Perla of years past) described it as "bastante". Most times as my winter home there I was the resident "translator" for those too lazy to learn it on their own.

Another thing to mention is here in the States I have had many a Hispanic friend and now live where the population is probably half Hispanic, and to try to habla Espanol is taken with a slight taste of distain. They are very (and fiercely) proud of their heritage, and if you're not, your attempts at practicing your linguistic skills are usually never returned, other than in English.

I believe Beto was an embarrassment to his constituents with his attempt at being bilingual during the first debates..... they know who he is, but he set himself up for appearing foolish to non-Spanish speakers (i.e. Meagan McCain).

Bottom line is, if you are going SOB at least learn the basics. Most cities have nighttime Adult Ed courses in different languages. Cheap, usually 2 nights a week for 6 weeks, and conversational... forget all the in's and out's of tenses, etc........ at least TRY for Pete's sake. Or Pedro's.

Bastante. Worked for me.

pauldavidmena - 7-8-2019 at 06:06 AM

In the Todos Santos area, I've found the locals to be very patient with my bumbling Spanish, particularly if I've made the effort to stray from the tourist corridors to seek out food or goods. I usually "rehearse" a few phrases in my head before leaping into conversation and then improvise from there.

Lee - 7-8-2019 at 01:16 PM

Conversational Spanish is great if all you're doing is ordering from a menu but it'll take a class or 2 either Rosetta Stone or with an instructor, to know pronunciation. Hearing the word is critical. Understanding basic conjugation, simple tense, is easy and formulaic.

Here's a common greeting: que honda.

Knowing the ''h'' is silent (basic stuff) means it looks like ''que onda'' not ''que honda.''

Don't think Mexicans care how gringoes speak.

pauldavidmena - 7-8-2019 at 05:55 PM

I didn't learn Spanish in Grade School (I grew up on Long Island in the 60s and 70s, but only French was taught. Go figure.) and took 2 years in college but never used it after that. It wasn't until I became interested in visiting Mexico that I sought out training - both online and in the classroom - with mixed results. I still get tongue-tied when I go off-script.

I've tried a lot of online resources, but these days I'm enjoying the Easy Spanish YouTube channel. Not only do the episodes feature live conversations focusing on specific topics, but there are subtitles - both English and Spanish - so that you can follow along.

bajabuddha - 7-8-2019 at 07:03 PM

Like a lotta things, ya don't use it, ya lose it. Que no?

Lee - 7-9-2019 at 10:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Here's a common greeting: que honda.

Actually, it's "Qué onda".

Unless you're talking about the depth of the swimming pool. :cool:

Always honda in S. America and research shows it both ways in MX.

chippy - 7-9-2019 at 11:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Here's a common greeting: que honda.

Actually, it's "Qué onda".

Unless you're talking about the depth of the swimming pool. :cool:

Lencho be right, Hondo/a is depth. Onda=wave. Buena onda = good vibe.

SFandH - 7-9-2019 at 11:50 AM

olas vs. ondas??

both mean waves

what's the diff?

interchangeable?

[Edited on 7-9-2019 by SFandH]

chippy - 7-9-2019 at 01:39 PM

I´ve only heard and used olas specific to ocean/water waves. Onda for radio/energy transfer type use.

FurgónConclusion - 1-4-2020 at 05:46 AM

I would use "pasar la noche en vela" for staying up all night OR "desvelado" for sleepless.

pacificobob - 1-4-2020 at 08:54 AM

.micro onda ....like the common kitchen appliances,.